My U-69

[TRM]

The Time has come to start my thread about my build of U-69. 

A little background:

U-69
The keel was laid down on the 11th of November at Friedrich Krupp Germaniawerft in Kiel.  F. Krupp Germaniawerft produced 131 u-boats, which were commissioned into the Kriegsmarine in World War II along with a list of other war vassals consisting of u-boats starting with U-7 in 1935 and finishing with U-4710 in 1945.

Technical information for type VIIC

Displacement:
(tons)    769 (sf)
871 (sm)
1070 (total)
Length: (m)    67,10 oa
50,50 ph
Beam: (m)    6,20 oa
4,70 ph
Draught: (draft)   4,74 m
Height:   9,60 m
Power: (hp)   3200 (sf)
750 (sm)
   
Speed:
(knots)   17,7 (sf)
7,6 (sm)
Range:
(miles / knots)   8500/10 (sf)
80/4 (sm)
Torpedoes:   14
4/1 (bow / stern tubes)
Mines:    26 TMA
Deck gun:    88/45
220 rounds
Crew:    44-52 men
Max depth:    ca. 220 m
(722 feet)
sm = submerged, sf = surfaced, ph = pressure hull,
oa = overall, hp = horsepower.

(from u-boat.net )


U-69 was launched on September 19th, 1940 and commissioned on November 2nd, 1940.  She participated in 11 war patrols in her career and belonged to 7 wolf packs. He was a member of the 7th Flotolla (Unterseebootsflottille "Wegener") From November of 1940 to February of 1943.  Throughout her career she amassed 16 ships sunk for a total of 67,500 GRT, 1 ship damaged for a total of 4,887 GRT,1 ship a total loss for a total of 5,445 GRT before her fate on 17 Feb, 1943 in the North Atlantic east of Newfoundland.  She was sunk from depth charges taking with her 46 souls.  Until this point no crewmembers aboard U-69 had perished while in her commission.

The time period I hope to depict will be from the end of her 3rd patrol (thank you Dougie). All the criteria I am looking to depict are present.  She is returning to St. Nazaire and has added 33,868 tons to her war chest for a total of 61,205 tons at this point.  U-69 was commanded by Kptlt. Jost Metzler (Knights Cross).  Metzler would leave on the 4th patrol with u-69 only to be stricken ill within days from leaving St. Nazaire.

I am still learning as I go here.  The subtle differences between the boats are becoming more apparent.  I will be ordering some of the critical add-on kits to help me along the way.  Starting with the PhotoEtch: Flood & Vent set (U-Brass/WEM #PE 7232).  Below are a couple of shots from the beginning stages of my build.  I started opening the flood vents along the hull in preparation of a delivery of my add-on.

Please feel free to make suggestions and/or critique along the way.  I am not an expert by all means and if I am missing something or overlook something along the way

[Greif]

Your start is looking good TRM.  Opening the free flooding vents is a bit tedious isn't it?! 

Ernest

[Rokket]

Off to a good start!

"Tedious"? I can think of a few other words...

[Siara]

Good start, but i can think of better way of doing this.
Easier, and quicker way at that.
You need to mill more on inside, to the point where the holes will open themselves. No need for drilling them out.
You still have about 1mm of plastic around the holes.
Get them as thin as possible, and you end up with thin looking sides, and nicely rounded holes without drilling.
Thay just pop out when you mill.

[TRM]

Thanks Guys...I will stick with the word "Tedious", it covers it cleanly.

Siara,

Thanks for the heads up.  I will mill them down some more.  I can really see where the "take your time addige"  applies.  Go to fast it will melt.  I am sure I will melt  or remove something I don't want too before I'm done.

Cheers!

[Sniperonzolo]

Yes that is the way but becarefull
if plastic goes too hot u could do the big damage!!!

[Rokket]

Yes, the damage part is dangerous, but using a Dremel or the like is the way to go, as Siara says. It DOES THE WORK FOR YOU! Some cleanup is needed, but the excellent #11 blade is perfect for that. I angled my bottom and side "walls" of each hole, to give the illusion of scale-thin:

[TRM]

Thanks Guys.

Thanks for the nice diagram Rokket.  That gives a great perspective on the cut out.  I used a  325 grit sanding brush with my dremel (variable speed).  Seemed to work well.  The thinner I got, the slower speed.  This seemed to eliminate the melting.  From what it looks like to be, it's about 0.5 mm on the thickness. SLOW and STEADY! 

Thanks again!

[TRM]

Any thoughts on the shape of the vents in the attached photo...The forward most vent holes seem to be more round in shape than what is on the Revell kit.  Or is this an "angle" or optical illusion.  They seem to be evenly spaced as well, unlike some of the offset holes on other boats.

[billp51d]

                 TRM...Nice work so far on thining the flood holes. I think what your seeing in the photo is exactly that, optical.They're oblong also. Remember though, there are only two of these holes on the other (starboard) side.
                                              Bill in Delaware..

[TRM]

Thanks Bill.   Was thinking they might be, but my eyes were in control for a moment.  Also thanks for the heads up on the starboard side.  I remember reading something about that I think in the section with the different number of vents side to side.  I'll have to re-read the AMP .pdf files again.

Cheers!

[billp51d]

            I was going to mention that pdf on the floods and vents by Dougie, TRM . It's good your aware of it. A wealth of information. BTY theres another pdf on type vii modifications in the AMP library you may find useful.
                                           Cheers/Regards   Bill

[TRM]

Thanks again Bill.  Read it (both) again last night.  Trying to commit some of it to memory.  I have filled the stern holes in preparation for drilling the smaller ones as suggested.  I'm itching to cut and drill for the PE....I need the PE 1st.  Oh well, there is plenty to keep me busy.  I did notice that you loose the rivets on the hull in some areas from sanding.  Is there rivet "kits" or am I going to be punching out pinhead size dots from styrene sheets.  I think I read something from Siara's build about add-ons....off to look.

Thanks!

[Rokket]

The U-Brass stuff (now WEM distributing) has rivets. As far as replacements rivets, the best product is the resin rivets on a decal carrier. There's a post about them here, see if I can't dig it up. They are pretty expensive, but very high quality. Our own Glenn Cauley forum mate researched and designed them for Archer.

[TRM]

Thanks Rokket,  I actually ran over the post about rivets last night...After scrolling through Siara's 552 build (fourth time).  Saved the link.   http://www.archertransfers.com/index.html.  Amazing stuff.  I am a bit out on getting transfers yet, but, need to have it ready when the time comes.  Being the 1st U-boat, I'm assuming I am looking at at least a month or two in just preparing the hull before I start adding anything to it.  I can see why you may want to bounce around on the build, just to change things up.

Thanks for the info!

[billp51d]

          TRM ..Bouncing around is the fun part. Maybe that explains why I have 3 boats on my bench.... All unfinished. 
                                      Bill

[TRM]

Figured one more slowdown technique Bill....The unforeseen catastrophe.(NOT THE MODEL THIS TIME)  I thought I would share.  Ahh those precious few hours now and then that pop up when you think you can sit down and scratch away at on of the many projects that we all have.  Then it happens!!!  This time my daughter's Nintendo DS somewhere between her using it and my 5 year old nephew....attempting to, SNAP it breaks.  This is how I filled the last 3 hours of "my quiet time today" (At least it was for a good cause):

Oh yeah, they seemed to loose all the parts before I got there....even more fun.

[TRM]

The finishing touches.  He is one thing I have finished in the past 2 months!


The last on is my version of The Battleship Game....need to put the 1/700 stuff somewhere!

[NZSnowman]

It must be boring working at 1:1 scale

Anyway, great job on the Nintendo, I sure your daughter will be happy.

[TRM]

Very Happy.  I will take the smile and a hug any day.

I was going to try to weather it.  A little rust and paint chipping, but I think the wife would have try to "Bake" my U-69.

[Rokket]

weather! LOL! great job! (see, you can tell your wife that modeling DOES have real world/life uses!)

[TRM]

A little update....

We have had tremendously nice weather lately.  This will definitely slow down progress of the u-69.  But, the yard is cleaner for the Memorial Day Weekend.  Friends and family coming over and the parade in town starts right at my house (Firetrucks park on my lawn).  Good Times!

Anyway, the pics below are my attempt at cutting the missing aft vents (without the template from the WEM Kit)  Can't wait I guess.

 I removed the two mysterious "Bumps" near the bow, in preparation of moving them up and aft. (I'll post when complete)

 I also started drilling out the  ( I hope I am correct) GHG plates located just above the keel near the bow.  Added the correct number between the "UT"?  (correct me if I am wrong, please, still working up to speed on all the terminology, forgive...) I am using copper wire to simulate the new ones.  By referring to documentation herein the AMP site,  there are many more below (not seen in any U-69 pics).  I am keeping the same placement of the lower ones by Revell and just adding new copper ones.

As always any and all questions and/or comments are always welcome.

Thanks!

[billp51d]

              Nicely done TRM. Enjoy the great weather and the holiday. Down here in Rehoboth Beach it's more like jet skis and boats on trailers parked on lawns but i'm sure to see a fire truck also. Have a good Memorial Day.
                                                                     Bill

[TRM]

Thanks Bill,  Have a great Holiday Weekend!

Added are a few shots of my homemade keel clamp. Made from an architectural draft clamp, I cut it down and added stems, covering them with styrene. Just need to add 1/8" (3mm) foam tape to protect all future paint.

Thanks for stopping by!

[Seewolf]

Hi TRM,
good job so far, like the way how you did the GHG.... will try to copy that for my boat, looks much more sharp and crisp than the Revell stuff 

[TRM]

Thanks Seewolf!  I believe the outcome will be far superior...crisp is the word.  Trying to be personally creative is always paramount, but I have been looking threw some many build logs and this was something that popped out.  Thanks to Siara's 552.  It does add a nice touch.

Cheers!

[TRM]

Finally, a little down time.  With coaching my daughter's softball team and watching my older daughter's softball games, Holiday parties, great weather and tons of yard work....RAIN!  This allows me to finally sit down and get some work done on the 69.

Did a little work on the tanks this morning, grinding, filling and such.  Trying to round them out.  Also made up some UT plates to cover over the kits' version. 

QUESTION:  I was thinking of heating the plates in maybe to recess them or should these ride flush with the outer hull?

[Seewolf]

Hmmm ... not sure but guessing the UT had same hight of the GHG. Sorry can not give you a better answer... I am not so far with my boat 

[NZSnowman]

Picture from U-995 CD http://www.uboataces.com/u995.shtml

UT base plate about 5 mm rise from casting + 3mm for the copper cover plate.

TRM, I see you were coaching your daughter's softball team, just wondering how big this softball in the US?

[TRM]

Thanks for the help Guys!  That pic certainly sums it up nicely.  Looks like I'm filling in the recess, maybe add a shim under the discs and I'm home free!

Snowman,  Nice question...ASA 11".  These are 9 & 10 year old girls.  They let them use a little smaller ball.  Side Not:  they (my team), had made it to the playoffs, not the final game but still a great accomplishment. They gave it all and actually won their last game but the advancing teams were decided by "run differential" over the two day three day tournament because there were 10 teams with the same record.

 

[TRM]

Just got back from Vacation (Holiday) on Cape Cod, MA.  Great week, temps in the 90's F and humid.  Even better, when the kids ask to go home early, because they are tired!!!!  Parents - 1 , Kids - 0...We win!

Before I left, I began some oil canning effect to one side of the hull.  Hastily I removed all but the aft rivet...."live and learn".  Now that I am back, the dauntless task of replacement of the rivets is inevitable.  Before I shell out more cash, I figured I would attempt some on my own.  Below are some pics, not bad from what I can see for now.  I will push my way through and lightly prime the side to see how they come out under painting.  As you can see, I removed the anchor well in preparation for movement forward...no rush, as I do not have the torpedo door add-on kit as of yet.

[Rokket]

The Cape! Grew up there (ad born, too - not hatched as the rumours say). Working on a Secret Rivet Tool (convex rivets fast and easy). Can't say much yet, just hang on.

[TRM]

Sweet !   I made a template with .001 clear, worked out somewhat but a pain in the arse to clear the holes every time, eventhough I used CA and a pin to make the rivits for this side.   I will be watching for your invention....I still have a side to go and like to see a more consitant method.  Plus if it works out that good, I will sand down the other side and have at it!

Cheers!

[TRM]

OK...Question time!

Below are 3 photographs.  I know the 1st one is U-69, just a wider angle (none cropped) version.  This is the third size of this photo....is it still even bigger? (not much of a question here), just curious.

The real question:  The second photo???

My thoughts....could be the 69...

Wind deflector, breakwater & net cutter in place.  Framework of shipyard, suspiciously like Krupp Germania Werf, Kiel...

Best guess from measuring on photo, there are 20 vents on top, unknown on the bottom (obscured)  Could make it - 69,94,95,96,97,201,205 (unless I am wrong about the yard, then 357 might come into play).  However - 201, 94 & 96 had no deflectors upon construction...if I am correct.

This leaves 95,97,205 and the possible 357 (see 3rd photo from Subism, claims to be 205)  This could, and I am not sure, have 21 vents...any guesses?

Anyway, if you feel like weighing in on it, let me know & thanks!

Cheers!

[Rokket]

hmmm, can't help, Dougie might know off the top of his head! Nice shot #1 of the access panels to the saddle tanks...could be useful.

[dougie47]

Hi TRM,

I haven't seen the second photo, thanks for posting. It is definitely a very early VIIC in Krupp. Not sure which boat. I think all the earliest VIICs would not have had the wind deflector in place until after they were launched. I can't be certain from the image you posted but I think there is no wind deflector there? 

Cheers,

Dougie

[TRM]

Thanks guys, for the help.  It's tough with the scans on the net, they are not always as clear as the originals.

Update:

Started the drip cap and "mass production" of the internal ribbing for the vent holes.

Thanks again!

[TRM]

I began making and applying the doublers and welds.  With no clear indication to the exact placement of the welds, I placed some where I though they should go.  I managed to work on the anchor well.  I have not received the Model brass PE or the flood and vent PE.  I have stayed away from these areas till I get them.

[TRM]

Set 2:

[TRM]

Final set for the night...

[billp51d]

                   TRM.. Nice rivet effect on your doubler. Who is the manufacturer of the tool that you used. BTW don't be in a big hurry for the Model Brass. I waited about 4 weeks for mine.
                                                                                 Bill

[TRM]

Thanks Bill.  Oh and thanks for the heads up on the Model Brass.

As for the tool....Trumpeter Rivet Maker.  It goes around $7-$9 USD...however, found it from a small shop in Hong Kong on E-bay.  It worked out to $7 with shipping and I received it in about a week.

http://myworld.ebay.com/lacorunone/

Cheers!

[Rokket]

Nice progress, looking very nice. Those bits really add a lot. Well done. (Anxiously awaiting more progress)

[TRM]

Update:


Happiness!!!!!  My U-Brass Add-on Floods ARRIVED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  After anxiously awaiting their arrival Thursday, only to find out UPS delivered them to a post office two towns over, I have them.

This weekend will be full of deciding on where to start 1st.  As you can see from the photo I didn't even wait to take the photo of the complete sheet.  I broke the piece while oil canning and have been staring at it for a month.  Couldn't wait to fix it.....now, slow down get back to work.

Dougie & Wink,  Exceptionally nice job.  I was not sure what to expect until it came.   I was surprised on the quality and thickness of the product.  I have been used to 1/700 and 1/350 scale and the PE is tremendously flimsy, this is certainly not.  Thanks guys!

[dougie47]

Hi TRM,

Thanks for the kind words, nice to see modellers still using the U-Brass/WEM set. We had to make it thicker than most sets because some of the parts were drill templates. Another reason was the "cheek pieces" - these are half etch (so that rivets could be included) and this also necessitated a certain thickness to prevent the pieces being too flimsy.

Hope you find the set useful.

Cheers,

Dougie

[LE BOSCO]

HI  T

Your U-69 are really to be "grandiose"with this PE!
best regards
Nicolas

[TRM]

Thanks Nicolas.  Dougie and Wink (from this site) did an awesome job on the PE.  I think it will make a big difference.  Still working on the torpedo vent section tonight, I hope to have another update by the weekend.

Cheers!

[Sniperonzolo]

muahahahah

THEY ARE REALLY GOOD PE!
I'VE USED THEM ON MINE AND FIT IT PERFECTLY!

yay!!!

[Rokket]

glad you got your PE and thanks for the nice words. Good luck!

[TRM]

Hello All,

Update....since getting the AMP PE I have been sliding in some time to move forward on the build.  Worked on the Bow round vents, Saddle trios, bow slots and finally the torp doors....these seems to be the most problematic to date.  It certainly is not the  PE itself.  It has to do with preparation of the area intended.  Carving out the space for the vent section to sit for support is laborious.  Time should definitely be set aside to slowly mill down the area and then chisel and sand remaining material to insure a tight fit.  The seem to fit nicely and smooth BEFORE I added the CA? Some of the edges after gluing were raised and would most certainly show.  I have also learned that it is good to show mistakes along the way also.  This will hopefully make someone more aware to the issues before the pop out at them and they throw out a perfectly good model.


Impressive little template!
Below: the layout process for seating the torp vent/doors.  Color coded so I would not forget what I was taking out.

Initial grinding for a nice tight fit....or so I thought

Placement...

Mudding....term used by plasterers when smoothing out the walls on a job (fixing screw-ups)

Sanding, sanding, oh yeah, more sanding and then....

Fregattenkapit

[LE BOSCO]

Hi TRM

great job  !You push the very far detail!!!!the Fregattenkapit

[TRM]

Thanks Nicolas.  I think my wife was trying to tell me I am #1....at least I would like to believe this to be true.  LOL!

[GlennCauley]

Looking good!    Been the same route as you, mate, and felt bad cutting big chunks of plastic out of the hull!  I got through it, so will you.  hehehe

With all the cutting, grinding, puttying, and sanding... this is another perfect model to benefit from the Archer Fine Transfers U-boat Super Detail (Rivet & Weld) set!!!        I used it on my own U-673 and it made rivet replacement SO much easier it boggled my mind.
(Okay, yes I am biased because I'm also the guy who design the set.... but it really IS worth it.)

Check it out:
http://www.archertransfers.com/AR88023.html
http://www.archertransfers.com/WEB%20pictures/AR88023%20ins.pdf
http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=165.0
http://www.travel-net.com/~gcauley/U673/files/Review_AR88023.pdf

[TRM]

Thanks Glenn.  And while I have you....surpurb build on the U-673!  I am going to definately put this on my wish list for my birthday next month. Some of the rivets I replaced looked not half bad, but some were needing a little work (a lot).  I have seen some of the other builds that have used them and it make for a nice clean, crisp hull.  Great work!

As for the cutting, grinding, sanding and such.  I love that part....it's when I set something at the wrong depth or place and it results in "un-neccessary" cutting, grinding and sanding.  This would be a learning curve.
Thanks Again,

T

[LE BOSCO]

.  I think my wife was trying to tell me I am #1....at least I would like to believe this to be true.  LOL!

I am sure that you is right!
Nicolas

[TRM]

Hello,

Today I decided to keep busy on the 69 with the pressure hull.  I have been patiently waiting for the Modelbrass upgrade....to my dismay, nothing!  Not a shipping notice, not an e-mail confirmation, :'(not even a post card!  Just the lonely Pay Pal statement mentioning "transaction complete".

Bill!!!!!!!!!  You were spot on.  Thank you.

Anyway,  after Glenn had posted the bit about Archer, I was lurking around his 673 build site.

Modeling U-673 "Flak-trap" by Glenn Cauley

 I found myself prior, attempting different methods of getting the non-hollow effect and was starting then scrapping, over and over again.  The I saw Glenn's pressure hull layout.  THANK YOU!  After checking the supplies, I was only lacking the .080 sheet stock for the main ribs.  Found some .25" Poplar instead.  Off to work I went....


Scaled up the print, drilling, band saw and sanding


Carefull labeling as per Mr. Cauley's exquisite layout

Using a .25" Aluminum rod I had for the spine...



Dry-fitting....


Some fairing took place, and a bit more I presume.  Not I need to remove the kit supplied ribs, so to make room for the continuous pressure hull skin.  Now while I am WAITING FOR MY ORDER FROM MODELBRASS, for my BOTTOM VENTS, I will finish the skin and work on the saddle tanks and torpedo door framing.

Cheers!

[LE BOSCO]

HI T

  Great skeleton of T-rex
Magnificent work my friend!
bravo !
Nicolas

[TRM]

Thank you Nicolas.  Live and learn from others....mostly learn from others, occasionally I come up with something on my own.  This one is all on Glenn.

[billp51d]

    TRM... Nice idea using the plywood for the different bulkhead sizes ! It seemed to me that it took forever for the .080 stryrene to come in the mail. Glenn Cauley did do many of us a favor with all the research that he did on bulkhead diameters!! I did use the Revel bulkheads in addition though as i felt it " Keyed " the complete assembly for installation. I just trimed of the top of the kit parts to the proper profile.
           If you are considering "Saddle Tank" extentions, this could be helpful. Glenn used a 1.25 Dia. piece of wood round stock. Well, I searched all over the house for 1.25 stock. "Shovel handles, etc.", but to no avail! What I did find though was a section of tubeing from an old cannister vacuum cleaner. Wrapping the tube with wax paper, to prevent sticking, and tightly tapeing the styrene blank with tape on the tube did the trick. Apply heat from a heat gun. Let cool. This worked fine for me.
           I've been following your build from the start. Very impressive.
                                                                              Bill in Delaware
 

[TRM]

Thanks Bill.  The wood hit me after raking my brain in "plastic mode" about what I could use without buying.  Used the same Poplar to fair out a Sultana 1/64^th plank on bulkhead wooden ship.  As for the extensions, I found a 0.75" piece of dowel last night.  Cut the two pieces and cooked them up.  I worked perfect.  There was a slight twist that , because of the thinness of the stock, I can correct.  Curious though.  The template is perfect, but when I was finished it appears to be about an inch too short.  I will add the pieces after.  I keep walking buy the model, wanting to pop the pressure hull in and go!!!!  I really need to wait for the damn Modelbrass PE so I can properly cut out the bottom vents.  I still have interior framing to do.  The skin of the pressure hull, I may end up using something a little different than the 0.010 stock.  I tried a piece and it works but I can see some fitting issues right off.  I have a method I am working on this week.  I will post the pics when I get it right.



Cheers!

[LE BOSCO]

HI T !

Otherwise you can cheat!!You can make like that

It is what I made on my 826

For what we see has the end ,But each makes as he wants in his "parish"
Good courage for the continuation, for which I am going to wait with impatient
best regards
Nicolas

[TRM]

Thanks for the tip Nicolas.  It seems to being going fine with the "Glenn" method.  

HAPPY DAYS!!!!!!  I got back to my desk this afternoon at work, and voila...a package from Modelworks.  I have to say that shipping it between two pieces of 3/16" Luan Plywood is ingenious.

Basic review so far:

Good points:

1 - It has pieces I need to authenticate the Revell model.
2 - Shipped in a nice package
3 - Price, was not that bad
4 - Product itself, appears to be of decent quality ( Not the thickness of the AMP PE, but still nice)
5 - Workability.....I will get back to this in the near future.

Cons:

1 - The package it was sent in was a hair too short.  So they bent the piece along an etch line.


2 - There appears to still be some of the pitting from the etch process still on the sheet.  I have experimented with my own etch tank and FeCl3 (Ferric Chloride) and when done with the etching, neutralization needs to be done and the final wash.  They may have rushed this.


3 - The shipping time and lack of knowledge of where the package was.  The site mentions about a two week lead time.  BILL, you mentioned 4 weeks....you were pretty much right on.

With this out of my system now, I can focus on getting back to work.  As I mentioned the product itself appears to be in acceptable condition and I can move forward.  A little sanding and cleaning with Acetone...should be good as new.

Cheer

[billp51d]

    ... TRM.. My brass was recieved the same with the bend in it. It may have something to do with shipping size ? Yes the brass seems to be a heavier gauge. Your probably already aware, but it helps to anneal the lower stern vents before fitting. Even then it is still a bit of work forming radii that are required.(Actually a pain in the ass) but worth it.
                BTW.. If you want to spend some extra $, consider incorporating a "Nautilus Deck" with deck parts from model brass, Hatches, etc. I found results rewarding. Check out "Siaras" U-552 deck tutorial. Aside from that if you go with just a brass deck there can be poor joints later on from temperature changes, seperations and warpage.
                                             Bill in Delaware..

[Pat]

Bill, one reason why I go with multi-piece wood decks, other than the realism factor, is exactly what you said, that lerge pieces of metal tend to work themselves loose over time.

The wood doesn't expand and contract as much, and I end up pinning it in so many places for hinges, and having so many joints that allow expansion, that this doesn't become a problem.

The biggest problem is having the patience to shape so many little pieces.  You develop that easily enough tying ratlines on a tall ship model.  Ugh, decks are SO much easier than ratlines.

[TRM]

Thanks Bill for the info.  I have indeed seen Siera's build .  It has crossed my mind to incorporate the wood deck from Nautilus.  I actually found a e-store carrying it for under $30 USD. Also I couldn't wait to start Marking the openings,  I actually must have gotten real lucky.  In consideration of the sloping of the hull, I lined up my exacto following the contour and lightly rolled  the piece, checking and rolling some more.  It seemed to fit almost perfectly.

Pat,

The patience I have, time I have. Just a little miffed about the waste of most of the deck from the PE Kit. I also agree with the Dreaded Rat lines....The Nautilus may be the way to go. This means cutting out all the hatches and such I will decide in the next week or so.  I need to place an order soon for the Archer Kit and maybe the YKM7202 PE which has the missing gratings.  Such the "snowball effect"....once you start, you can't stop.

How do you think Siera will respond to groveling for a couple more photos of his wood application and hatch "extraction"??

Cheers!

[Pat]

Yes, the waste of parts sometimes does get irksome.

I like to replace all the fragile parts that I can with brass, (guns, railings, flagstaffs, etc.) but unless it was supposed to be one of the earlier steel decks, I like the realism of wood.  Of course, part of that it that wood is so much easier to work and cut out hatches and install hinges than the brass too.

I started my wooden deck because I wanted to have the drainage slots and was using a Dremel to cut away the plastic from the back.  It was working, and I liked the look of it, but it actually seemed much harder than just making a deck from scratch.  Too tense trying to make sure I didn't cut too deep.  And then there was trench for the schnorkel, which I didn't want.  I decided that to hide the schnorkel meant a new deck, and if I was making a new deck, then why not put on a deck gun, and then I had to research for a while to find a VII C/41 with a deck gun in RL.

And then if I'm making a whole deck, and drilling out the free flow holes in the casing, I'd better make the PH, and then if I did the PH, it might be hard to see even with light coming in from the slats, so why not make the hatches open with the same method I used on the 37mm shield and the main hatch.  And then why not make the ammo hatches work, etc. etc. etc.

Such is exactly how the "snowball effect" you mentioned work.  I quickly ended up with something that's going to be around 2,000 pcs.

After tying hundreds of ratlines over the decades, I at least came up with one good result.  I'd learned all the proper sailor's knots and one day decided that I might have learned how to sail from building models.  So I rented a sailboat and got hooked.  Now on my 3rd real boat and I've found that there are many things on models that are easier to figure out because of it.

I'm sure Siara would be happy to provide some more photos.  He does excellent work and his posts are always interesting and informative.

I'd put in photos of mine but don't have a digital camera, other than a cellphone, and the focus and closeups with it aren't all that good to see the small detail.

[LE BOSCO]

Hi mister T

What happen in your Shipyard????a strike??I believed that we were (the French) the world champions of the strike 
I hope to see photos of your progress very soon !!

regards
Nicolas

[TRM]

Bonjour Nicolas! J'ai

[LE BOSCO]

OK T!
I am going to wait!But I notice we are not the world champions of days holiday!
a plus l'ami
Nicolas

[Seewolf]

Hello TRM, why I can not see any Pics from your sub  I can see the pics at the first site but nothing more 

[TRM]

Seewolf,

I am not exactly sure   I checked after reading and they are there for me (of course, why wouldn't they be?)  I will check with the Picasa Album they are in an see if there is a setting that Google messed with.

If anybody else are having issues as well or any ideas why Seewolf is having viewing problems, please let me know.

Thanks,

T

[Pat]

I think it depends on the exact configuration of the computer the site is being viewed from and perhaps what programs are installed.  Sometimes when I can't see the pictures I go to a different computer, say at the library or work and I can see things that I couldn't before.  Sometimes even the colours are different.

Maybe sometimes the servers that are in between the site and the viewer make a difference too as sometimes I can see the pictures and sometimes I can't on my own computer.

And with a few pictures, I can't see them on any computer.

But I DO see the pictures of TRM's build.  They are there.

[TRM]

Thanks Pat!

Seewolf,  you may indeed want to check under your browser's options as well.  I seem to get all the pictures here and on all other sites I go, but still needed to change the setting when I try to access Itunes???

Good Luck!

T

[Pat]

TRM's method of putting in bulkheads to strengthen his hull is a very versatile one.

With a slight variation, I've used it to build small lifeboats/whalers to go with some of my other models.  It could easily serve to make a hard-hulled lifeboat (as opposed to an inflatable) that some of the early U-boats appeared to have carried beneath the deck just in front of the deck gun.  (I've seen them in some cutaway pictures).

To make a small lifeboat, make the bulkheads just as TRM showed, except make them just slightly smaller than the measurements for beam in your drawing.  This difference will be the thickness of the hull planks PLUS the thickness of the ribs.

Drill a series of holes around the rim on the bulkheads.

String the bulkheads together by setting the top edge into slots cut in a stick, similar to the metal rod that TRM used (but you want to be able to remove them partway through the construction).  The bulkheads will look to be upside down, with the keep part sticking up.

Then, bend the ribs along the outside rim of the bulkheads by wetting them, and then tying them to the outside of the bulhead by wrapping a thread around and around them, spiralling through the holes that you drilled.  DO NOT glue the ribs to the bulkheads.

After all the ribs are dried, glue or pin planks along the ribs starting at the keel and slightly overlapping each one (for a lapstrake hull) or butt-join them for a smooth hull.  Make sure you alternate sides since as they dry, they will pull evenly on the bulkheads so as not to twist the keel.

Snip the thread underneath each plank just before you glue it, so that the thread will not be glued in.

When you get to the last plank at the gunwale, and snip the last bit of thread, the whole assembly will lift off the bulkheads and you will have a lifeboat hull that looks far better than any you could buy.

Now all you have to add is thwarts (seats), stringers and oarlocks or motor mounts.

[TRM]

Thanks Pat.  I have made the Bread & Butter dingys before and I have seen a version of what you speak of on another site.  An exceptional Ukrainian "Artisan" is what I will call him, If I remember the scale correctly, it was 1/100 wooden vessel. Same concept, built the frame build the inner hull and straked the exterior and then separated the two adding the ribbing after wards, still having the template for another ship!  Still looking forward to making a whaler soon or later.  With your knowledge and your detailed explanation, there is a clearer understanding to the 2000+ part on your boat!  

Somewhat update to what has been going on at the docks....


Been working on the pressure hull for starters.  I decided to used some toilet paper rolls as a base.  Three girls in the house and a lack of sheet stock....made sense.



I have been slowly working on the Modelbrass vents.  Not as easy as it seems getting them to fit just right.  Still some filling and such, but coming along...


Ended up removing parts of the doublers here and there, which will easily be replaced...




I have just recently added some filler to the pressure hull.  Been sanding and filling.  Once I get it placed I will add a few details only, the scuttle for the conning tower, some piping, not too much.  It is fairly dark in there and would like to begin pressing on.  I figure a few more weeks and I might get a chance to fit the deck!

Cheers!

[Pat]

TRM, yes, the whaler that I made by that method was over 100 pieces, somewhere around 150-160 if I remember correctly.  (I can't check it since that model is now in a museum a couple of hours away from here)  All the thwarts of course were separate pieces, as were their supports both above and below.  There were something like 20-25 planks for each side of the hull.  The keel, cutwater etc were all separte pieces too.  There was also a floor with its own ribs made out of about 25 pieces, and even the rudder and tiller were able to be disassembled or hung on pintle and gudgeons.  The whole boat was about 4 or maybe 5" long and hung off stern davits on a brig of war from 1813.

With your skill, I'm assuming the toilet paper rolls are temporary, just to get a base to create the final PH on?  If you're looking for plastic sheet stock, I've made the PH for my build out of plastic pop bottles (A&W root Beer has an about 5" section that's perfectly flat, but of course already curved in an almost correct circumference.  Just a little bit of work needed to get the correct shape and it glues well with cyanoacrylates.

Reuse and recycle.

[Rokket]

Beer cans!

[LE BOSCO]

When have can ally the pleasure and the pleasure
T
It is can be more practical with pastic card !Big project that this pressurized hull my friend !
good luck!
Nicolas

[TRM]

Pat,  It is indeed a starting point.  I will be using  aluminum cans to finish.  Just not Beer cans...I know how much wink likes a good brew and would even buy it for him if he popped in...(LOL, somewhere around 10090 miles (16239 km) (8768 nautical miles) ) but I could never get into the taste.  More of a Vodka Man!  The polish in me I guess....As for the whaler, Pat, You have any pictures? I have some plans stored around for one of Shakelton's  shore boats. And have been toying around with staring it.....would be a while I guessing though.

Nicolas, il semble

[Pat]

Hmmmm, I'd never thought of using aluminum cans before (from beer or soup, I guess it doesn't matter), how dumb is that?  It makes sense a strong, easily workable but long lasting material.  And so easy to come by too!  (Kicks self in butt).

Sorry, no photos of the lifeboat.  It went into the museum more than 20 years ago, before digital cameras, and I haven't seen it since.  I only found out what museum it's in now about 4 years ago.  Even if I had taken pix, it would have been of the ship as a whole, since the small boat was just a small part of a much larger (about 1.4 meter) build.  The whole ship even had details down to cutlasses on racks over the gunports.  The cutlasses were made out of paper clips, pounded flat on an anvil and then ground into shape, with that knuckle guards made out of brass and the handles with turned wire on them.  There were about 34 matched swords.

The plans for the whaler were easy to come by.  It was a book about period ships, and had a whaler seen end to end with the forward lines one the stbd side and the after lines on the port side, and a lengthwise view as well.  I just photocopied them, then cut out the lines and doubled them over to glue onto the wood I used for the bulkheads.

[Pat]

TRM, I'd forgot to mention about you not liking beer, and here you live in the home of what's arguably one of the best beers in the nation, if not the continent.  (And no guys, I agree that there are some pretty good ones in other countries, not trying to downgrade them)

Sam Adams

[TRM]

LOL!  Arguably Pat, Sam is one of the best!.  Many a friend longs for the fall and winter months when they roll out their seasonal brews.  Alas, I will have to reside myself with the crispness of Водка!

I have been to Ireland once, many moons ago, and their Guinness was pretty tasty! Completely different, not like here! 

Cheers my friend!

T   

[Pat]

Sure, and wi' a name like Liam Patrick Craighdhlocha, ye can unnerstan' how I'd love to visit aulde Eire, and have me a pint o' Guinness right from the keg.  It's anoder one of me favourites!

Guinness here is actually under license by one of our own breweries, and I'm sure not the same as the original.  And one should only have the cans here, not the bottles.  BIG difference.  (Of course, the tap is even better.)

Slaint

[billp51d]

                        Водка!... It's Russian, Pat.. An alphabet like none other.. A B is pronounced V,
                         H is N, N is I and it gets more confusing !!
                                                                    Bill  ( БИЛЛ )
                                          

[TRM]

Ahh Pat, you would enjoy! One of my most favorite experiences!

Bill, As if language wasn't difficult sometimes, add the Cyrillic alphabet!

Cheers to Both!

[Greif]

Beautiful work TRM.  I think the Pressure Hull you are making will do just just fine.  This uboot will be a very nice work of art when you are complete building it.

Cheers,
Ernest

[TRM]

Thank you Ernest!  Exciting project, over your garage!  Sounds like you will have a nice little "work den".


Cheers!

[TRM]

A little continuation.....still some sanding left but checking the fit.

[Rokket]

nice p-hull

[LE BOSCO]

Whaouuuuuuuuu!
A work of "madman"!! great job my friend !
what happen next ?
regards
Nicolas

[Rokket]

I missed the Sam Adams post, small brain - years ago my mate sent some to me, now it's brewed here under license! Mmmmm tasty. Vodka - glass bottles aren't easy to work with for p-hulls. I'm assuming you keep yours in the freezer? (vodka, not p-hull).

Waiting for more pix.

[TRM]

No worries!  Only place to keep the Vodka!  Interesting how a small microbrew turned into a global powerhouse. 

Pics soon....

Cheers!

[Pat]

Wink, when they brew the Sam Adams there under license, is it the same?

I found that when they first started importing Foster's here, it was pretty good.  But after they found how popular it was, after a couple of years they started to brew it here under license.  It wasn't the same as the original so I stopped drinking it.

[Rokket]

The Sammies are just as good, the brewery here is local and has a good rep. But I know what you mean. yes, very interesting on the Sam growth. But I think it's a combo of good beer (purity law and all that), wide range, people wanting more than Bud, and marketing.

Fosters - I used to drink that with my mate, before living here, to be cool. Turns out Foster is pretty much for export only, and not as "the good stuff" but generic tourist beer! No one drinks it, hard to find. They make such good beer here, all kinds. I don't know if you can get the good stuff there.

[TRM]

Quick update:

Been real busy, side jobs and dances for my girls, birthday parties and we have been puppy sitting for a friend....been trying to steal time away!

Managed a little:
Some internal framing (Thanks Ernest for your hard work on the plans!)


Quick prime job on the P-hull.  Most of the fitting will go on after the install:


First application of interior lower vent framing:


Inside shot:


The little house guest! (Demon seed!) The guest is the one on the right.  Cote!  Mine is the one on the left, Shiloh.  Both are Mini-Australian Shepard.  Shiloh is a tri-color and the ....let's say, tenacious one, is a Blue Merl.  Sure, he looks cute....eats everything and poops!!!!!!!  Get my house back tomorrow!


Cheers!

[Greif]

Hi TRM, your build is progessing nicely.  The ribs looks fantastic, as does the AMP vents.  The dogs are cute to! 

Ernest

[Pepper-mint]

Hi TRM,

Nice ribs... 

question : where do i get these vents PE from ? there is nothing on the AMP website (or maybe i missed something), just the PE distributed by WEM...



Thanks in advance.

Cheers !

[TRM]

Pepper-mint, They are from Modelbrass.  Be prepared to wait a little.  My order took about 4 1/2 weeks to get.  Worth it though.  A nice compliment to the AMP set.

Thank you for the kind words Ernest!  The puppy is GONE....house is almost back to normal.  I think my dog is upset to see it go, she has been indifferent the past week!

Cheers!

[Pepper-mint]

Thank you TRM 

[Rokket]

I agree, looking very nice, these details are worth it! Glad the Demon Dog is gone!

[TRM]

Finally....somewhat progress.  Been working side projects while the money is there and the weather is fine!  Doesn't leave too much time for hobbies .

Anyway....

I finished work on the torpedo doors.  I need some help with something though.....I am unsure about the functions of the inner torpedo tube covers.  Did they open BEFORE the exterior doors and sit behind them, or, did the open after (as I have done, and could easily rectified)? I made the inner cover movable....not sure if it should appear open or closed.  I will stuff a torpedo in it if it remains open....opinions are always welcome.





I was also able to actually connect the two halves....I had to fight with the pressure hull (about a hundred dry fittings, then it doesn't fit!  Finally it came together, after removing some of the interior framing.  I also began the saddle tank extensions, fill, fill, fill,  sand, sand, sand


You can see I made some early reference marks to below deck placement.  Any suggestions at this point would be helpful....

Not shown, I have begun to sand the entire hull, AGAIN!  I am removing my rivets that were added after oil canning, in preparation to purchasing the Archer set.  Once I saw what is accomplished with this set,   ,I think the time spent putting them back will enhance the project a lot better.

Ohhhhh,  This finally came yesterday:

All the missing vents and then some!
After sanding I will begin to add all the hull fittings from the Modelbrass and Eduard PE set to the hull and saddle tanks and work on some "light" scratch on the pressure hull.

Cheers!

[Pat]

TRM, I'm not sure, but I think it was NZSnowman (or it could have been Siara) posted a diagram a couple of months ago that showed how the inner tube doors opened. 

Apparently, they connected by a couple of levers to the outer doors (shutters he called them) so that they both opened at the same time, with the round hatch on the tube going in behind the rectangular shutter.

I also read in a book a year or so ago that the doors had to be closed below about 20 meters depth.  Otherwise, the pressure got into the depth-setting mechanism of the torpedo and ruined it.  The torp would then have to be withdrawn from the tube and returned to base to be repaired, or else ejected to just sink to the bottom.

[TRM]

Thnaks Pat!  Easy enough to remove the round hatch. This means I will need to make a tip to the torpedo.

Cheers!

HA HA HA, just found this while googling torpedos......


In case you are interested, 1/72  found at http://www.caswellplating.com/models/torpedo.html#.

Thinking about it.  Put it on one of those air freshener sensors, so when you walk in the room it will fire a torpedo across the room....dog will love it!

[Pepper-mint]

Your boat is looking great TRM ! This will be nice shaped - Smelling the ribs from here 

[FoxbaT]

Nice work so far! 



Karel

[TRM]

Thanks for the kind words guys! 

As for the "Smell"       The smell of the putty is ok for the first 5 minutes....funny, used pay good money for that kind of buzz!   Key word is VENTILATION!

[Siara]

Thanks for the kind words guys!  

As for the "Smell"       The smell of the putty is ok for the first 5 minutes....funny, used pay good money for that kind of buzz!  Key word is VENTILATION!

Squadrons Green Puty is especially effective- if messes with your kidneys if you indulge in that kind of activities often.

[Rokket]

Boat looks great!

Outer doors and shutters: they worked very much like the US Navy counterparts (details different) - the outer door, the round hatch part, was connected to the "shutter", so opening the outer door slide the shutter:


USN Gato style - but similar in principle

The major diff for the Kriegsmarine is that the shutter was attached differently and COVERED the outer door - you can't see the outer door when the shutter is open, just the shutter (attached at same point, but a sliding lever instead of a hinge in USN). So your beautiful outer doors will be...HIDDEN!!! (except or the hinge)

USN version:

Just imagine the shutter extending to block that round "hatch" outer door

[TRM]

Thanks Siara.  Glad not to use this amount that often.  Every once and a while, but plenty of ventalation if not adding a small fan to draw to solvent based fumes away.  At work I do a bunch of commercially based products testing (Fire, Explosions and wind uplift).  With the wind uplift the primary adhesive is solvents.  Saftey is always paramount!

Wink,  thank you for the additional information on the shutters and inner doors.  Certainly makes sence to me now that I see it.
Cheers!

[Greif]

U-69 is coming along nicely TRM.  You have done a great job with the PE torpedo doors. 

Ernest

[TRM]

Thank you Ernest! 

Small Update and question (becoming a habit  )

Before I add the stern section of PE, I have seen  below deck piping added (mainly in Siara's 552) and wish to add myself.  Direction to a schematic I guess, is what I am looking for that kind of shows piping just below the deck.  I though I read somewhere either the bow and/or the stern opening threw the deck could be intake or exhaust for something.  I don't wish to simulate piping if it doesn't actually belong there.

Bow section:










Stern opening


Cheers!

[NZSnowman]

There very little piping in the stern section, nothing around the vents. You could add the top of outlets vents for MB Tank 1 (Red - in my drawing). Or you could add the deck vent for Stern Driving Tank (blue - in my drawing). This vent is almost missing off ever set of plans and models. You can see it in real life below (red arrow).

[Greif]

Hi TRM, your build is looking very, very good.  I think Simon answered you question quite well - and his drawings are a top reference!

Ernest

[TRM]

Thanks Ernest, much appreciated. 

Simon, thanks for the info, section from your drawing (cannot say enough about technical knowledge gained from it!) and the photo of the "lost vent".  This vent would most likely have the same straight wire grating as the others I would assume?

Thanks again for all the help guys!

Cheers!

[NZSnowman]

I not to sure, about the style of grating. I have not look into it yet. But from the photography above it look the same style and spacing as the outlets vents for MB Tank 1.

The distance from the very end of the stern decking to the central of the vent is 2,578 mm (36 mm at 1:72 scale) the size of the grate is 280 mm (4 mm).

How does that mark out on the stern section of PE? Does it look acceptable?

[Pat]

In TRM's post of Nov 20, the 4th picture down shows what I think is the intake grating for water into the saddle tanks.  (Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong).

Lower and to the left of that is a round hole, which I couldn't identify on Revell's kit because it was just a circle, but now with the PE brass, it looks like a through-hull for either a drain or an intake that would probably go right through the saddle tank and into the hull.

Does anybody have any information on what this opening is for?

While I'm at it, I might as well ask about the rectangular areas forward and aft of the grill.  What are they and is there better information on what they look like?  Again, the kit isn't that helpful.

And finally, right inside the angle formed by the keel and the hull, in an indentation, there are several square ridges in the kit which I think might be water inlets for diving, but again I'm not sure.  What do they look like and how do they work?

[NZSnowman]

Lower and to the left of that is a round hole, which I couldn't identify on Revell's kit because it was just a circle, but now with the PE brass, it looks like a through-hull for either a drain or an intake that would probably go right through the saddle tank and into the hull.

Does anybody have any information on what this opening is for?

Pat, have not started my research for these vents yet, but I think you right that this goes in to the pressures. Below is a picture of the pressure hull, you can clearly see a similar size hole. If this is correct. I would say this would be the OUTLET vent for the Main driving Tank that is found under the control room.

I believe this picture is from www.u-historia.com


Edit: mean to say 'outlet vent'

[NZSnowman]

In TRM's post of Nov 20, the 4th picture down shows what I think is the intake grating for water into the saddle tanks.  (Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong).

Yes, they would be the inlet vents for the tanks within the saddle tank.

[NZSnowman]

While I'm at it, I might as well ask about the rectangular areas forward and aft of the grill.  What are they and is there better information on what they look like?  Again, the kit isn't that helpful.

Pat, I not a 100% sure where you are talking about?

[NZSnowman]

And finally, right inside the angle formed by the keel and the hull, in an indentation, there are several square ridges in the kit which I think might be water inlets for diving, but again I'm not sure.  What do they look like and how do they work?

Also finally here a link to the valve that you can talking http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate28.htm (Bottom right) They are the inlet vents for the MB 3 tank (or the main driving Tank). You can also see the valves for the inlet for MB 3 and the valves for the saddle tank.

Simon

[TRM]

Simon,

Thank you again including the last technical drawing.  Between your drawing and the scan from U-boat Achieve, it all make a lot more sense now.  I assumed the bank of square vents near the keel, along with the ones located at the base of the saddle tanks were to control flooding during a dive. 

Once it was pointed out to me about the missing vent, it stands out like a sore thumb.  I found another good shot (below) as well as after examination of the stern part of the ModelBrass section (which I am replacing with the Eduard PE) there is a small indentation pretty much exactly where this "lost vent" is located.  Anyone using the Modelbrass deck with this section could easily open the 4mm hole and use some 1/700 PE railing for the grating.



Missing vent...

  Thanks for the help!

Cheers!

[TRM]

Went to work to rectify the "missing vent"

Thanks to all the information from Simon I plotted the vent and drill a small pilot hole:


Then using a larger bit and finishing off with a round file:


I cut a small ring using aluminum rod and sanded it as fine as I could.  This will be the escutcheon plate that (from what I can see) caps the vent on the deck"


Using some left over 1/700 railing stock, I cut the grates for the deck vent:


With the escutcheon ring in place, I wanted to add a section of tubing below deck.  Probably not seen, but in the right light???


A small cap from sheet stock for good measure:


I am thinking it came out, not half bad.


I notice a little CA residue on the edge of the vent....then thought it will work out nicely with the "gunk" that can get caught up in the vents, algae and stuff.


Thanks Again for all the help!

Cheers!

[bracco_n]

I say it looks great!

[NZSnowman]

I think it great also!!

[Greif]

Excellent metal working there TRM, it looks great!

Ernest

[TRM]

Thanks Guys!  And thank you again Simon, for the heads up on the "missing vent". It's these small things that will hopefully make the project much better when done.

Cheers!

[TRM]

Not an update yet.  Felt like mentioning....

Yesterday we laid our puppy, Shiloh, to rest. Kidney failure due to Lime disease, She was 3.  Good friend, great dog and one of the best parts of the family. Been trying to keep busy to fill the void.  The tedious framing above the saddle tanks seems to be working. We are dealing pretty well due to this unexpectedness and felt like posting a couple of pics.  Thanks.




Thanks Shiloh, you will be missed!

[billp51d]

..... Worth the mention, TRM. A sad day indeed. Truly a mans best friend. My sympathies.
                                                                                Bill

[TRM]

Thank you Bill, much appreciated.

[Pat]

Sorry to hear that TRM.  They really become part of the family, and it's hard to see them go.  Especially when so very young.

[TRM]

Thank you Pat.

[Pat]

TRM, I have a Revell "Constitution" at close to the same stage of construction.  It's been in my closet like that for 40 years now.  I'd built it while at university, and when I figured I only had a couple of hours left to finish it, it fell and was smashed beyond repair.

So I bought another kit and canibbalized all the parts I could from the first one to use to add more detail, like interior walls, furniture, pillars, crew members, etc.  Built it to the stage you have and then started wooden models and never went back to it.

Perhaps I should dig it out and finish it?

[TRM]

Why not Pat?  I started mine almost 3 years ago (thought I felt guilty about that.....40?).  It's all wood POB scratch off a full set of plans.  I think when I started her I bit a little more off than I could chew at that time, or I just got burnt out from the over 1200 3/8" x 5/8" copper plates I cut and individually glued on.  Changed direction, started and completed a scratch Sultana 1:64 and then.....well projects seem to magically appear on the bench!   Luckly, I have not gone too far on the project.  I have noticed things that I want to change and things I know I have improved with, so it will be easy to change and move forward instead of scrapping the hole thing.  Being 52" when complete and almost 36" tall I still need to find a place to put her too!

Cheers!

[Pat]

Perhaps a bit of exaggeration.  Now that I stopped to add it up, it's been more like only 35 years LOL.

I think part of it was that Ihad to pack it up to move a couple of times, and going over the same things that I'd done before was a bit discouraging.  And also that when I started into wooden models, it was such a new and challenging experience, I lost interest in plastic.

However, now that I've built so many wooden and scratch-built models, I find I've learned enough that styrene is again a challenge, but only because I toss out most of the kit and modify so much of it, or rebuild it better out of scratch-built parts, that they've again become much more interesting.  A challenge to see just how far I can take all the skills I've gained over that time to make everything work and move like the real thing.

I really shold finish off the Constitution model.  I've got the plans for where each of the deckhead beams went and my intention was to use 'grain-of-wheat' lightbulbs, wired inside the beams and with an antique lantern framed around them to light up the interior.  But since those old days, now there are LED lights that might be even smaller.  I've also thought about replacing the cannons with steel ones, drilled out and with electric sparkers in the end so I can make it really fire.  Saw the real ship fire off a broadside once and it was REALLY impressive.

I'd love to see HMS Victory let loose like that.

All those copper plates would be quite the chore.  Wait until you get to the ratlines!

I got used to that sort of thing by doing the decks with individual planks which is why building a complete deck with opening hatches and and an underlying framework for my U-711 didn't seem very intimidating. 

[TRM]

Rat llines do suck, but had fun on the Sultana.  Most likely because it was a hell of a lot smaller to start with.  I have a started POF hull section started as well, ran into some tool issues.  I have 2 garages and a 14' trailer full of tools....you think I would have a scroll saw!!!   I have a full set of plans for 66 gun Treh Hierarhov (below).  Started some light cad stuff to get keel joints with it and set it aside.  POF would be great with this one, show the futtocks, tree nailing and such.  Need the scroll saw and a micro lathe for this one.

Outstanding build!  Worth the look.  Everything, down to casting his own cannon!  Some day!

http://modelshipworld.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6850&highlight=

Cheers!

[bracco_n]

Pat, could we see some photos of your work on U-711?

[Pat]

I'd love to but I don't have a digital camera.  Just a cell phone and so I can't take pictures from close enough to show much detail.

What I have at the moment you could tell that I'm building the deck framework from scratch, but on the planked sections, it's hard to tell that they're all separate pieces of wood.  And from 4 feet away (about the focal length of the phone), you can't seen all the detail that's gone into the 37mm (the one that I have finished so far).

I can take a pic and put it on, but not sure if it's worth it.

[Pat]

Rat llines do suck, but had fun on the Sultana.  Most likely because it was a hell of a lot smaller to start with.  I have a started POF hull section started as well, ran into some tool issues.  I have 2 garages and a 14' trailer full of tools....you think I would have a scroll saw!!!   I have a full set of plans for 66 gun Treh Hierarhov (below).  Started some light cad stuff to get keel joints with it and set it aside.  POF would be great with this one, show the futtocks, tree nailing and such.  Need the scroll saw and a micro lathe for this one.


Cheers!

Yeah, ratlines are a pain, but they're actually the impetus that taught me how to sail a real boat.  I wanted to make the ratlines accurate, so I learned which knots they use on the real thing.  That lead to wanting to know the correct knots everywhere else, and then how all the sails worked until eventually, I thought I knew enough to sail a real boat.  So I rented one and found out that I had learned how to sail by building models.

That Treh Hierarhov looks really nice.  Russian?  It looks Baltic and about mid to late 18th century and hard to tell without colour, but the flags look like Imperial Russia, blue on white.

[TRM]

Yes, Blue on White.  Crimean war.  Just found a nice version.  The only thing that may be different, most of the painting I have seen of her from the period, she has more color. Black on White with blue and gold accents.

Think I need a couple of more smaller ones.....Rattle Snake, Begiman Latham......before I give her a shot.

[TRM]

HA HA AH, just realized why I had not seen this one before.....she is the 106 gun not the 66 gun.  MMmmmmm, still nice.

[NZSnowman]

Hi TRM

I only just found another missing hatch at the stern. It

[TRM]

Nice find Simon!  I will have to give it a shot tomorrow.  Been working on finishing up "inside" and preping for deck installation.  Pics maybe tomorrow too!

Thanks!

[Rokket]

square rig guys - if you need sails, AMP flag cloth can do the trick - holds shape and is sealed...plus flags of course [shameless plug]

[Pat]

Yes, the flag cloth IS very good!  It's actually very similar to real sailcloth (betcha didn't know that real sails for that stiff!).

Do you sell it by the yard?

[TRM]

Thanks Wink!  Let us know about the cloth!!  I will be ordering the flags for the U-69 when the time comes. Certainly interested in sail material!

THANKS PAT!!!!!!  Found myself wasting an hour yesterday looking up sets of plans.  Tracking down something a bit small than the Trek.  Having a need to work the wood and all that rigging!

Now an update...

Interior framing set



Put down some 1mm thick strips to pad up for the deck. 



Placed a support where the decking pieces come together



Modifying parts



Warning!!!! This is my feeble attempt to fill some of the "void" under the deck.  I did not want to go overboard, soooooooo, I made some piping, loosely based......very loosely based one one of Simon's drawingstill need to connect the exhaust ends to the mufflers....be kind, most , if not all is barley seen.  Just trying to add some definition.   (no Laughing) 






Removed hatches from original kit and doug-in





Going with the Modelbrass hatch with this one.  The eduard doesn't match, at lest in the one picture I have of the U-69 deck in this spot.


Need to add something to the edge on one side, seems to be a larger "bulging" rounded edge than the PE

Modelbrass part


Eduard Part


More to come....

Cheers!

[bracco_n]

Very nice and neat build!

[LE BOSCO]

Hi TRM


Impressive work you made us my friend!
I can not wait to see more!!
amiti

[FoxbaT]

Nice work..




Karel

[Rokket]

great piping and deckwork, it's just right, nothing feeble about i!

[TRM]

Thanks Guys, much appreciated!

Couple of more...

Started cutting hatches to add the Eduard PE




Started putting them back too.  Added a wire handle....please correct me if this is wrong.




Finally, started the rounded hatch(really need to look up what hatch this is....so I can stop calling it "the rounded hatch")  Removed the hatch that is standard on the Modelbrass deck.  Adding the supplied replacement seemed to make it too layered.  Trying to correct the rounded lip as well.



If I can figure out how to attach the mufflers to the tailpipe I would love to prime the innards (PH) tomorrow maybe!

Cheers!

[Rokket]

lip on hatch looks good! Those details make the difference.

Sail Cloth - setting a price, probably per 11x17" (actually A3 - 297x420mm or 11 x 16" with dead area)

[TRM]

Thanks Wink!

Great news about the sail cloth!  I'll be waiting!

Cheers!

[TRM]

Moving along....




Certainly some missing stuff, but it should get rid of that "empty" feeling

Cheers!

[Rokket]

That's all you need, some shapes, and you have done even more, looking great

[Greif]

Looking very nice TRM.  The pressure hull looks great and well fill the void nicely.

Ernest

[TRM]

Thanks Guys!

Still not much of an update....been filling the precious little time when not running from my daughter's (both) basketball practices and games, concerts and general holiday stuff with SANDING!  I have just about removed all of the rivets I had added to the hull.  I received Archer's (Glenn's) rivet transfers.....WOW!  Glenn, excellent work my friend!  I am assuming I may need to either buy another set and/or purchase a sheet or too of rivets of similar scale.  Unfortunately I think I took off more than the kit will replace.  Not concerned at the moment....it will be worth it.  I also received WEM 37mm upgrade.  After seeing the barrel, I will most likely purchase a brass barrel as well.  I found an American company that offers the Schatton periscopes, antenna and 37mm barrel.  Left the link on the work computer, will post it for anyone looking for these upgrade, short money! And finally, the last pick is my replacing the GHG plates with the Eduard plates supplied in their upgrade PE.





Looking forward to finishing the hull, and priming....then onto those rivets!

[bracco_n]

Hi T, I believe that what you reffer to in the last photo is the UT, Unterwasser telegraphie (was it spelled like that?) which was an underwater telegraph for communication between submerged boats. The GHG is the listening apparatus.

[TRM]

You are correct Sir!  got them mixed up.   I replaced the UT plates (LOL) with the Eduard's PE...as for the spelling, you appear to be correct as well!

Cheers! 

[Greif]

U-69 is coming along very nicely TRM!  Archer's aftermarket rivets and welds set looks great.

Ernest

[Rokket]

The Archer set is most excellent, and Glenn did a fantabulous job 9as he always does!!!)! I DO wish they cost less then the model tho....

[TRM]

I agree, and I have not been able to even get started on them!  Slight hiatus from her...too much diorama stuff I guess!   Still thinking I need to buy either another rivet transfer set or a sheet of something comparable.  I took off too much sanding.  Bridges to cross when I get there!

Cheers!

[TRM]

Thought I would post this picture I came across.  The question pertaining to the extra wire on the rigging of VIIA's and B's came up WAY, WAY back in December of 2009 in Siara's U-552 thread:  http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=58.msg3657#msg3657.

Still not sure of it's purpose but thought someone could use it at some point...





Cheers!

[Pat]

As far as I can tell, the extra wire is the actual antenna for the radio.

The wires with the porcelain/glass insulators that go from the wintergarten to the stern, and the CT front to the bow are "jump cables" and they have two purposes.  The insulators themselves are almost the same as the insulators that you sometimes see between the cable from a telephone pole and the stake in the ground that it's attached to.

The first purpose is to act as a support for the radio antenna/wire.  It is for this reason that they have the multiple round insulators to separate them from any interference with the hull.  It's easier to see at the forward end of the CT, but there is a very thin wire, the actual antenna, that comes off of the jump cable just before the insulators and hangs loosely underneath to enter the front of the CT, usually slightly to starboard but sometimes almost in the centre of the CT.  As it goes along the jump cable, the antenna either spirals the cable, or is attached every so often by a clip.

At the aft end of the CT, there are two horns, one on each side of the wintergarten, and the thin antenna wire again comes off just before the insulators and goes into the horns on either side.  I think the small wire you see underneath the jump cable in your picture is the antenna wire and it's a bit thicker there because it's insulated to stop it from shorting out if it touches the jump cable.

The jump cables themselves are not what picks up the radio signal, but just the support for the antenna.

The second purpose of the jump cable (and this is more important with the bow jump cable) is to deflect any anti-submarine nets, cables or foltsam so that it doesn't entangle the deck gun, schnorkel, CT, periscope or any other projections when the U-boat is near the surface.  For this reason, the jump cable is fairly thick and strong, and stretched fairly taut by turnbuckles at each end.

[bracco_n]

and the third purpose is that of being a device to which you can attach yourself when the sea is rough and you have to do some work on deck.

[TRM]

I can see that as well.  Thanks Bracco!  I believe I remember a pic of a sailor tethered on deck....just not sure to what.  This may have answered that!

Thanks again!

[Pat]

Yes, you're right bracco.  I should have thought of that myself since there's been a number of night crossings and a few storms that I've had to rig a jack line and rig the same sort of clip-on harness myself.

[bracco_n]

Amazing! I

[Rokket]

I used to sail a 13footer on a lake, with a few mates. We usually had about 8 seconds of the perfect angle/balance, where we sailed, and then pow over the edge and capsize, or panic and rop away losing all bite. It was interesting! best thing about the boat was the new thwart we built, oak and 11 coats of clear urethane. Oh, and the massive pirate flag we flew, too!

[Pat]

When I used to make night crossings myself, with a short-handed crew, I rigged jack-lines and put on harnesses just as a matter of precaution, since I figured that if somebody went overboard in the dark, the chance of finding them and bringing them back aboard before hypothermia wasn

[bracco_n]

Pat what an amazing anecdote! I think there's a video in youtube showing a crewman carrying out maintenance in heavy weather and he is attached to the jumping wire. I'll have to look it up.
By the way, my name is Nicolas.

[Pat]

Oh, as soon as you mentioned using the jump wire as a jackline for safety harnesses, I knew you had to be correct bracco.  It's perfectly logical that with a man trying to go forward on a narrow, pitching deck only a meter or so above the water, with waves several meters high washing over, that of course they'd clip onto the jump wire.

In fact, it seems to me that at least when they're on the bow, the rise of the wire would lift them out of the water and deposit them on deck as the boat's motion dragged them aft towards the height of the CT.

The only thing is that they likely wouldn't be able to reach high enough to clip on until they were at the forward end of the side railing, so a dangerous trip to there.

[NZSnowman]

I have read that some of the big storms in the Atlantic, whole watch crews were wash overboard from the bridge, and it was not until the next watch crew went up to replace them they known they were missing.

I find that scaring because of two things: one you lose 3 crew members, and the other thing is that your U-boat could have been sailing around bind from the enemy for up to 3 hours.

[TRM]

Hello Guys!

I am looking for a little help with the manhole inspection plates on the saddle tanks.  Obviously ModelBrass' placement instruction are little to no help.  I remember seeing a posted picture (not sure, but I thought from Wink) of a nice overview.  I just spent the better part of the last hour an half click, click, cling away to no avail!  

Any reference starting point and/or measurements between (o/c) the covers would be of great help.  Or maybe the link to where I saw the picture?

Thank you!

[TRM]

Maybe a picture is worth a thousand words?

This is what I came up with for the inspection cover placements....



Please way in if this does not look right.  Any thoughts on the 3rd and 4th covers being actually round?  They look more round than oblong in Westwood's picture.  Any help is appreciated.  Thanks!

[NZSnowman]

TRM, check the post between Reply #615 and #623

Research, pictures, sizing and location data.

http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=106.msg6698#msg6698

[TRM]

Thank you Simon!  That one round one....I had made 4 round plates last night, thinking something was round.  I will adjust accordingly.

Thanks again!

[TRM]

Thanks again Simon!  Using the measurements you had posted in your thread, I was able to plot the correct cover placement. As you can see, my attempt at the round covers.  They are slightly small than they should be, but, I think they look alright.  Please let me know what you think.



The correct placements, my original in black...







I began re-constructing the doublers and applying them back on....







Cheers!

[Greif]

Superb work here TRM.  I wish I had the patience to correct errors in the moulding process on the Revell uboots.  I like to finish projects too much to spend the time it takes to get a super accurate hull, deck and conning tower on these models.  My hat's off to you!

Ernest

[TRM]

Thanks Ernest!  I like when things get finished as well....this is why I have sooo many projects going.

Did a little work to correct the anchor...still unsure if I like it, it may grow on me though.





Cheers!

[TRM]

Thanks Pepper!  That is awesome!  I was thinking that the, ahh, stem?? was seen.  Luckly it's a friction fit.  I will remove tonight (thinking I have some square stock )

Thanks again!

[Pepper-mint]

You are welcome 

[Rokket]

I modified my anchor, it's worth the work, and even if not completely happy, i think we are both happier than if we hadn't done anything! Everything looks SWEET!

[NZSnowman]

If you want a detail anchor, just buy one, at a low price of £3,150.00

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120641660077&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

[Rokket]

I'll take two!

They look very similar to the anchors on Gatos.

[TRM]

Thnaks Wink, still modifiing...slow progress, all my spare time lately in spent clearing snow, waiting for the next storm on Saturday!


LOL...Thanks Simon!  I just ordered 3....just in case I break one!