Author Topic: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details  (Read 665517 times)

0 Members and 24 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #200 on: 31 Mar , 2012, 23:48 »
Q: Engine Room - Flooring

Tore, did the original flooring in the engine room have draining holes like the conning tower floor (Right) or was it solid (Left)?



Thanks, Simon.
Simon
There were no drainholes, your left picture is correct.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #201 on: 01 Apr , 2012, 00:07 »
Q: Engine Room - Photograph

Tore, in the original wartime photograph below, someone is checking diesel level in the engine room (I am sure a job you did a few 100

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #202 on: 02 Apr , 2012, 13:19 »
Well
In this country easter has already started and people are moving up to the mountains for the last skiingoportunity. So I`m sending you my greetings below.
Tore
« Last Edit: 12 Mar , 2014, 01:30 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #203 on: 02 Apr , 2012, 14:00 »
Well
In this country easter has already started and people are moving up to the mountains for the last skiingoportunity. So I`m sending you my greetings below.
Tore

Thanks for the nice seasonal greetings! It funny to hear you talk about people moving to the mountains for there last opportunity to go skiing. As I am getting ready for my 23rd winter as a avalanche forecaster down here in New Zealand  :D


Tore, thanks for all your time and help over the last few months.

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #204 on: 02 Apr , 2012, 14:36 »
Thanks Simon.
Good luck with your coming winterseason, we had one of our worst avalanche winters, I`m happy it`s over. Central european skiers having very little knowledge of avalanches are going off pisteskiing and creating a lot of problems. Quite a few have been killed this season in spite of all the avalanchegadges they have.
Tore

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #205 on: 02 Apr , 2012, 16:12 »
Hi Tore


I have got question about diving planes angle indicators. I know, that each diving planes control station has its own angle indicators - one pure electrical (resistance bridge principle) and one pure mechanical (called Teleflex system). Could you explain how this latter works? I can not find any appropriate references to the Teleflex system.


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #206 on: 03 Apr , 2012, 01:26 »
Hi Tore


I have got question about diving planes angle indicators. I know, that each diving planes control station has its own angle indicators - one pure electrical (resistance bridge principle) and one pure mechanical (called Teleflex system). Could you explain how this latter works? I can not find any appropriate references to the Teleflex system.


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
Maciek
I have been trying to figure out about a 2nd mechanical indicator system for the hydroplanes operators in the CR and I simply cannot remember to have seen them. Teleflex is a well known make even today and exsisted in the wartime. At that time the system was basically a flexible cable in an armed hose for transmitting mechanical power. We had once a failure on the fwd hydroplaneindicator on the ex. U 995 and I remember crawling in the fwd torpedoroomarea discovering that the mechanical transmissionlink from the hyroplanerod to the electro transmitter was broken. It could have been a teleflex. But I am sorry I cannot remember a mechanical (Teleflex) connection to the hydroplaneindicators in the controlroom, it should be possible to see the teleflexcable on one of the photos.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #207 on: 03 Apr , 2012, 01:51 »
Marko
I have been looking on the photos I have and think I found the mechanical hydroplane indicator. See my bad photo below. It is a rather crude (aluminum?) disc below and sligthly to the left of the electrical indicator. I guess you migth be able to see it better on one of the panaorama photos on the net.
Tore
« Last Edit: 12 Mar , 2014, 01:31 by tore »

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #208 on: 03 Apr , 2012, 03:07 »
Tore
I have been trying to figure out about a 2nd mechanical indicator system for the hydroplanes operators in the CR and I simply cannot remember to have seen them. Teleflex is a well known make even today and exsisted in the wartime. At that time the system was basically a flexible cable in an armed hose for transmitting mechanical power.

Well, I have found following description (Type IXC Design Study, http://uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXC.htm):
Quote
f.  Mechanical Bow Plane Angle Indicator System     
This system is identical with the Teleflex systems installed in USN surface vessels in various applications and is so called by the Germans.  Details of the system may be obtained from any Teleflex instruction book.


When I wonder about this a bit longer, I guess, even name "Teleflex" indicates the flexible cable, as you have written, so I pretty sure, you are right.
But I am sorry I cannot remember a mechanical (Teleflex) connection to the hydroplaneindicators in the controlroom, it should be possible to see the teleflexcable on one of the photos.
I have attached some photos (one from U505, other from U995), but I also cannot see flexible cable.
And one more photo from U570:





--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
« Last Edit: 03 Apr , 2012, 03:10 by SnakeDoc »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #209 on: 03 Apr , 2012, 06:16 »
Maciek
On your picture of the hydroplanecontrols on U 995 I think there is a cable going through the fwd pressurebulkhead which migth be the teleflexcable for the fwd hydroplanes, it has the proper curvature, size and a possible correct position.
Tore

Offline Rokket

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2,362
  • Gender: Male
  • Submarine Enthusiast
    • AMP - Accurate Model Parts
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #210 on: 05 Apr , 2012, 03:35 »
Wow, I get a little busy and  I miss a million posts! This is very late, but way back up there, that sure DOES look liked a linked rubber mat. Now I'm no Tore, my experience with them is rather mundane. Just out of high school my family had a welcome matt that was just the same...linked strips of rubber, held together with metal pins. My girlfriend came over for New Years with her, uh, larger friend. The friend was the one who knocked on the door...so I opened it, and she stepped inside and her high heel caught in the gap between strips and she fell forward on top of me...I threw out my hands to both stop her from falling and stop myself from being knocked over, instinct...I caught her on both very large boobs, we twisted sideways and almost fell, and then all was well, but we were red faced and laughing. The basic effect was: open door, FALL OH MY GOD! GRAB! TWIST! STUMBLE!

Anyway, stupid mat.
AMP - Accurate Model Parts - http://amp.rokket.biz

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #211 on: 05 Apr , 2012, 04:42 »
Well Wink, the mat we had wasn`t instrumental in getting our hands full of what you got. Poor us had our hands full of ligth alloy pistons with heavy conrods which very easy could be dammaged when lowered on to the steel floorplates.
Tore

TopherVIIC

  • Guest
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #212 on: 05 Apr , 2012, 05:55 »
Just as a side note to the discussion about rubber matting ... The above mentioned  http://uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXC.htm says "           ... Linoleum deck covering is provided in the living spaces and in the torpedo rooms.  Linoleum over wood decking is provided in the sound and radio rooms.  Rubber link matting is provided in the maneuvering room, engine rooms and control room...    "
Christopher

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #213 on: 05 Apr , 2012, 08:36 »
Just as a side note to the discussion about rubber matting ... The above mentioned  http://uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXC.htm says "           ... Linoleum deck covering is provided in the living spaces and in the torpedo rooms.  Linoleum over wood decking is provided in the sound and radio rooms.  Rubber link matting is provided in the maneuvering room, engine rooms and control room...    "
Christopher
Christopher
I guess floorcoverings were commonly used in the wartime, mainly for soundreduction. We didn`t have mats to cover the floor to the same extent as mentioned in the report you quoted. I think the mats were of variable design as may be seen below on the wartime photo of the floorplates in a VIIC controlroom. To me it looks like some kind of woven mats. The forward torpedoroom (livingquarters) had steelframed hatches see photo below and it could very well be linoleum within the frames. As far as I remember it was the same in the wardroom, COs quarter, CPOs and POs mess as well, not so many hatches though. The floor in the control room was steelplates. In the engineroom we didn`t have any mats only steelplates except during major overhauls. In the E-room I think it was steelplates as well and in the aft torpedoroom I cannot remember.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #214 on: 05 Apr , 2012, 09:30 »
Further to my last post I am posting  a picture of the E-room floorplating including aft torpedofloorplating and engineroomfloorplating on KNM Kaura, it should be as originally fitted.
It looks to me as steelplates all over, but remember this was not wartime and the german had probably mats covering the steel floorplates.
Tore
« Last Edit: 05 Apr , 2012, 09:34 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #215 on: 10 Apr , 2012, 14:07 »
Q: Engine Room - Lubricating caps

Tore, it seen that most lubricating caps are painted red (like in Engineroom floorplating.jpg), but can you remember if the lubricating caps were made of bronze?

Thanks, Simon.
« Last Edit: 10 Apr , 2012, 18:17 by NZSnowman »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #216 on: 10 Apr , 2012, 14:12 »
Q: Engine Room - Piping

Tore, is the lower pipe copper, and the upper pipe brass? As there seem to be a big colour different between the two pipes ???

Thanks, Simon.

« Last Edit: 10 Apr , 2012, 18:17 by NZSnowman »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #217 on: 10 Apr , 2012, 14:52 »
Q: Engine Room - Piping

Tore, is the lower pipe copper, and the upper pipe bronze? As there seem to be a big colour different between the two pipes ???

Thanks, Simon.



I was looking at a few more pictures of pipes within the engine room, and I think the copper section is a small patch to replace a small section of missing piping :(
« Last Edit: 10 Apr , 2012, 18:15 by NZSnowman »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #218 on: 10 Apr , 2012, 18:14 »
Q: Engine Room - Fuel filters

Tore, perhaps can help me with a discussion I had several years back. There are two different types of fuel filters on the engines. I was wondering if you know if one is an original German fuel filters.

Many thanks again, Simon.


Fig. 1. Port side fuel filters.


Fig. 2. Starboard side fuel filters.

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #219 on: 10 Apr , 2012, 23:51 »
Q: Engine Room - Lubricating caps

Tore, it seen that most lubricating caps are painted red (like in Engineroom floorplating.jpg), but can you remember if the lubricating caps were made of bronze?

Thanks, Simon.
Simon
Lubricating caps. Upon your remarks I rechecked my pictures and realized they are most probably from the late 60 ties thus after my time. Painting details like nuts, cocks and cups were often a popular pastime activity amongst the engineroomcrew during boring watches. As a chief engineer I did`t
encourage such paintings particulary the use of red which was primarely reserved for essentials like pressurehullvalves, ballasttank vents etc. I realize present day U 995 have red paints all over, we avoided that in my time and the original paints on our VII C did`t have all these "red dots". Neither did we have the usual shiny brass details as you see on f.i. british subs  primarely because the germans didn`t use copper and brass to the same extent.
I guess I`m trying to answer: they were possibly of steel and painted in the same colour as the engines, grey.
Tore
« Last Edit: 11 Apr , 2012, 11:50 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #220 on: 11 Apr , 2012, 00:15 »
Q: Engine Room - Piping

Tore, is the lower pipe copper, and the upper pipe brass? As there seem to be a big colour different between the two pipes ???

Thanks, Simon.


Indeed the lower pipe seems to be copper. As far as I remember most of the pipings were steel and I don`t think the other pipe is brass nor copper, I`ll make a guess it`s rusty steel having been washed with oil, but that`s a guess (hopefully it isn`t plastic).
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #221 on: 11 Apr , 2012, 00:29 »
Q: Engine Room - Fuel filters

Tore, perhaps can help me with a discussion I had several years back. There are two different types of fuel filters on the engines. I was wondering if you know if one is an original German fuel filters.

Many thanks again, Simon.


Fig. 1. Port side fuel filters.


Fig. 2. Starboard side fuel filters.
Simon.
There is something odd with the pictures of the filters none of them look like the originals, do you happen to have a complete picture of the port filter?
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #222 on: 11 Apr , 2012, 00:37 »
Simon.
Your piping question. If you have a close look at the engine manoeuvreing handles, they were steel, on your filterpictures you`ll see they have same colour as the pipe I assumed was steel. I guess that support the steel theory.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #223 on: 11 Apr , 2012, 01:02 »
Simon.
Your piping question. If you have a close look at the engine manoeuvreing handles, they were steel, on your filterpictures you`ll see they have same colour as the pipe I assumed was steel. I guess that support the steel theory.
Tore

Thanks, Tore.

This is very useful to know. I will have to change numerous of my piping around the engines. As I base many of the piping on this bronze colour.
 

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #224 on: 11 Apr , 2012, 05:55 »
Simon
Painting. Just a comment to your pipeline photo. As I previously has mentioned I dislike all the funny painting done on the present U 995. Below I have indicated by arrows a wrong painting which would harm the operation of the main engines. The bundle of four arrows points at the fuelpumpregulatingrods. They are rods going to each individual HP fuelpumps and by movement back and forth turns the fuelpump plunger and by that regulating the fuel to each individual cylinder, hence the output of the engines. Any paints on these rods would cause the rodlinks to stick. Any engineer would see to it that they were freed from any coating, rust or anything which could obstruct the free movement. They were all the time shiny metallic and carefully oiled.
The other picture points to the inlet- and exhaustvalverockers pushrod from the camshaft. Any paint would harm the oilsealing to the camshaftcasing and the engineers would keep them shiny and well oiled. So anybody making drawings or models should not copy the present days painting on the U 995.
Tore
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:08 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #225 on: 11 Apr , 2012, 14:15 »
Thanks, again for the great information. It
« Last Edit: 11 Apr , 2012, 18:44 by NZSnowman »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #226 on: 11 Apr , 2012, 14:50 »
Simon
I`m happy to be able to assist. However don`t make every pipe shiny they were not, most of them were painted grey. The hp pipes from the Bosch fuelpumps to the fuelinjectors were not painted and the indicatorcocks were black steel and with a tendency to have a few rusty spots as they were subject to the exhausttemperatures. Looking forward to be seeing your enginedrawing.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #227 on: 11 Apr , 2012, 19:21 »
1. What is this? Is it a small window to check fuel level? What colour should it be?
2. What is this? Is it a small coverplate? It very hard to tell from these pictures as with the paint, but are there two very small screw on each side of the plate?
3. Just noted this reset in the rods this afternoon. I imagine this would illustrate the maximum movement of the rods.

Also just realise I have a major redraw on the fuel pump regulating rods!!! :o :o :o I do not realise that the fuel pump regulating rods are not symmetrical on the aft three heads of the engine, compare to the fore 3 heads. By the way, Tore how did you number the head, from stern to bow.

Thanks, Simon.


Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #228 on: 11 Apr , 2012, 23:24 »
Tore, what is the red thing?


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #229 on: 12 Apr , 2012, 00:23 »
1. What is this? Is it a small window to check fuel level? What colour should it be?
2. What is this? Is it a small coverplate? It very hard to tell from these pictures as with the paint, but are there two very small screw on each side of the plate?
3. Just noted this reset in the rods this afternoon. I imagine this would illustrate the maximum movement of the rods.

Also just realise I have a major redraw on the fuel pump regulating rods!!! :o :o :o I do not realise that the fuel pump regulating rods are not symmetrical on the aft three heads of the engine, compare to the fore 3 heads. By the way, Tore how did you number the head, from stern to bow.

Thanks, Simon.


Simon
1. This is an "inspection window" where you can check the movement of the fuelplunger in the fuelpump. It should never be painted. Usually the fuelpumps were painted black from the Bosch manufacturer.
2. Honestly I cannot remember this signplate. It could be nameplate for the Bosch factory, as the HP fuelpumps could be moved around it was not a cylinder numberplate.
3.This is a toothed rack entering a toothed rim on the fuelplunger outer sleeve connected to the plunger, regulating the fuelinjection by turning the sleeve and plunger. The movement was strictly horisontal, back and forth and the recess is presumably a guide to prevent it turning.
For the position of the fuelpumprack it was usually an engraved millimeterscale on the rack just before entering the fuelpump. I think you can see marks  on the rigth side of the pumpcasing were the pointer was fitted.
Tore
« Last Edit: 12 Apr , 2012, 05:20 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #230 on: 12 Apr , 2012, 00:40 »
Simon
The cylinders were numbered from forward to aft. The fuelrack linkage is very important. If you look carefully on your pictures you`ll see each individual pump has a linkconnection with an oval slot in the rod and a spring attached, The spring seems to be missing on quite a few pumps on your picture. The system works like this: if one fuelpumpplunger is stuck (scored) the governor or maneouveringhandle should be able to move the rack so the rest of the pumps could be moved to 0 stopping the engine and prevent overspeeding. In drawing the fuelrack don`t forget the governor at the aft end of the rack.
Tore       
« Last Edit: 12 Apr , 2012, 00:50 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #231 on: 12 Apr , 2012, 00:45 »
Tore, what is the red thing?


Simon
This is a small screwvalve for "bleeding" the fuelpump eg to get rid of air in the fuelpump. It is wrongly painted red.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #232 on: 12 Apr , 2012, 01:04 »
Looking at all the pictures of the fuelpumps it strikes me that every nut and connection is painted. The connection between the HP fuelpump and the fuelinjector in the cylindercover was comparatively often dismantled. The fuelinjectors were sensitive and had to be changed (overhauled) quite frequently. The last thing you wanted to have was paintflakes entering you delicate fuelsystem particulary after the filters. Therefore the connection from the fuelpumps to the fuelinjectors fitted in the cylindercovers should not have any paint and should be clean steel.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #233 on: 12 Apr , 2012, 01:32 »
Simon
You observation fuelrack is not symmetrical.
The fuelrack is controlled by two means, the maneuovringstand in front of the engine and the governor in the aft. The governor takes care of the stable revs at varying loads and particulary in bad weather is a must. The maneuveringstand overule the governor anytime you want. In order to accommodate the linkage to the governor in the aft end, they reversed the linkage at the center of the engine as you correctly observed.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #234 on: 12 Apr , 2012, 03:22 »
1. What is this? Is it a small window to check fuel level? What colour should it be?
2. What is this? Is it a small coverplate? It very hard to tell from these pictures as with the paint, but are there two very small screw on each side of the plate?
3. Just noted this reset in the rods this afternoon. I imagine this would illustrate the maximum movement of the rods.

Also just realise I have a major redraw on the fuel pump regulating rods!!! :o :o :o I do not realise that the fuel pump regulating rods are not symmetrical on the aft three heads of the engine, compare to the fore 3 heads. By the way, Tore how did you number the head, from stern to bow.

Thanks, Simon.


Simon
1. This is an "inspection window" where you can check the movement of the fuelplunger in the fuelpump. It should never be painted. Usually the           fuelpumps were painted black from the Bosch manufacturer.
2. Honestly I cannot remember this signplate. It could be nameplate for the Bosch factory, as the HP fuelpumps could be moved around it was not a cylinder numberplate.
3.This is a toothed rack entering a toothed rim on the fuelplunger sleeve, regulating the fuelinjection by turning the sleeve. The movement was strictly horisontal, back and forth and the recess is presumably a guide to prevent it turning.
For the position of the fuelpumprack it was usually an engraved millimeterscale on the rack just before entering the fuelpump. I think you can see marks  on the rigth side of the pumpcasing were the pointer was fitted.
Tore

Number 2:

Tore, I think you are correct about the Bosch factory name plate  :)

Could not found any u-boat wartime pictures of this plate :'( So I base the plate below on two wartime Bosch factory name plate from a horn & a magneto ;D They were the only wartime name plate I could found on the net.


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #235 on: 12 Apr , 2012, 04:29 »
1. What is this? Is it a small window to check fuel level? What colour should it be?
2. What is this? Is it a small coverplate? It very hard to tell from these pictures as with the paint, but are there two very small screw on each side of the plate?
3. Just noted this reset in the rods this afternoon. I imagine this would illustrate the maximum movement of the rods.

Also just realise I have a major redraw on the fuel pump regulating rods!!! :o :o :o I do not realise that the fuel pump regulating rods are not symmetrical on the aft three heads of the engine, compare to the fore 3 heads. By the way, Tore how did you number the head, from stern to bow.

Thanks, Simon.


Simon
1. This is an "inspection window" where you can check the movement of the fuelplunger in the fuelpump. It should never be painted. Usually the           fuelpumps were painted black from the Bosch manufacturer.
2. Honestly I cannot remember this signplate. It could be nameplate for the Bosch factory, as the HP fuelpumps could be moved around it was not a cylinder numberplate.
3.This is a toothed rack entering a toothed rim on the fuelplunger outer sleeve and , regulating the fuelinjection by turning the outersleeve and then the fuelplunger. The movement was strictly horisontal, back and forth and the recess is presumably a guide to prevent it turning.
For the position of the fuelpumprack it was usually an engraved millimeterscale on the rack just before entering the fuelpump. I think you can see marks  on the rigth side of the pumpcasing were the pointer was fitted.
Tore

Number 2:

Tore, I think you are correct about the Bosch factory name plate  :)

Could not found any u-boat wartime pictures of this plate :'( So I base the plate below on two wartime Bosch factory name plate from a horn & a magneto ;D They were the only wartime name plate I could found on the net.


Simon
I don`t think there was much difference between the two pumpexecution externally, neither the nameplate. The serialno on the nameplate was not too important, what really matters was the interior parts, plunger and liner, which was lapped together and could be dismantled as a unit from the housing.
Tore
« Last Edit: 12 Apr , 2012, 07:59 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #236 on: 12 Apr , 2012, 07:20 »
Simon
While beeing on the subject of pushrods for the valve rockerarms I realize I have not mentioned a 3rd valvepushrod per cylinder. The red arrow on the picture below indicate the the rod. This is the rod operating the startingvalverockerarm. Normally it is kept free from the camshaft by a spring but when the startinghandle is placed in start position, the rod is pneumatically pushed against the springpressure down to the camshaft which then control the compressed air to the individual cylinders and thus starts the engine by compressed air. As the the other valverods, this should be shiny metallic as well and not painted.
Tore
« Last Edit: 12 Mar , 2014, 01:34 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #237 on: 12 Apr , 2012, 14:11 »

Fig. 1. New updated fuel pump. Old fuel pump (right).
« Last Edit: 13 Apr , 2012, 01:52 by NZSnowman »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #238 on: 12 Apr , 2012, 14:36 »
Seems to be fine to me. If you really want details your could put in fuelrack positionmarks 1mm apart as indicated in red below.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #239 on: 12 Apr , 2012, 14:50 »
The threaded parts on the rack linkageconnection showed on your new drawing was for adjusting the individual pumps fuelinjection in relation to the others, and the fuelrack markings was very useful for that.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #240 on: 12 Apr , 2012, 14:58 »
Seems to be fine to me. If you really want details your could put in fuelrack positionmarks 1mm apart as indicated in red below.
Tore

Yes, love is kind of detail!!  :) :)

I added this level of detail already; added marks for the dip stick for the oil tank between the two engines  ;D ;D
 


Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #241 on: 12 Apr , 2012, 15:05 »
Q: Engine Room - Fuel filters

Tore, perhaps can help me with a discussion I had several years back. There are two different types of fuel filters on the engines. I was wondering if you know if one is an original German fuel filters.

Many thanks again, Simon.


Fig. 1. Port side fuel filters.


Fig. 2. Starboard side fuel filters.
Simon.
There is something odd with the pictures of the filters none of them look like the originals, do you happen to have a complete picture of the port filter?
Tore

Tore, here a better view of the port filters


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #242 on: 13 Apr , 2012, 01:15 »
Simon
Fuelfilters. I have been trying to figure out the filterquestion but cannot remember the details, so I`m back to guessing. The stb. filters does not give me a clue whereas on the port I remember the logo on the filtercasing. I`ll go for 60% chance port filter could be the original. Sorry not a very good answer I`m afraid.
Tore
« Last Edit: 13 Apr , 2012, 02:01 by tore »

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #243 on: 13 Apr , 2012, 08:22 »
Hi


Maybe you'll find it useful.


--
Regards
Maciek

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #244 on: 13 Apr , 2012, 10:10 »
Yes Maciek, you see the plunger with the helic, the gearrim turning the outer sleeve and hence the plunger. You even see the fuelrack markings, the guidescrew in the rack slot and the lockingscrew for the lapped plungerbarrel. You`ll get everything correct to tiniest detail Simon.

Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #245 on: 13 Apr , 2012, 10:56 »
Simon.   I have marked the details of Macieks drawings transfered to the outside of your pumpcasing as below. I guess your drawing is pretty much correct.
Tore
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:10 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #246 on: 13 Apr , 2012, 12:11 »
Hi


Maybe you'll find it useful.


--
Regards
Maciek

Hi Maciek

What book are these drawing from?

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #247 on: 13 Apr , 2012, 13:06 »

Fig. 1. This was my old layout of the fuel pumps.


Fig. 2. This is the corrent layout for the fuel pumps for the port engine.


Fig. 3. Close-up view of one fuel pump.

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #248 on: 13 Apr , 2012, 14:40 »
Very good ! And the fuelrack transmission studs are placed correctly in contact with the end of the oval slots in the fuelrack link. As far as I can see you have incorporated a flexible link in the fuelracklinkage. For some reason stb engine of the U 995 has two flexible links, one is actually double. I have indicated the two linkpositions on the posted picture below.The linkage is as you see, pretty rough and in order to have a smooth transmission it could possibly have been necessary to have an extra flexible link. I didn`t put it in. My suggestion would be to have only one flexible link per engine.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #249 on: 13 Apr , 2012, 15:24 »
A small remark on the fuelpumps. The arrangement for the fuelpumps is of course for the stb engine, for the port engine the fuelpumps shall be the opposite e.g. the fuelrack positionmarks are pointing forward and the movement of the fuelracklink is opposite the stb link. The reason is that the fuelpumps are not in "mirror execution".
Tore

TopherVIIC

  • Guest
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #250 on: 13 Apr , 2012, 15:36 »
Tore -
I have noticed in my study of the forward torpedo room that there were many fixtures that were as you say "in mirror execution" - pieces that seem to have been designed for a given function on the port side, but could not be switched to the stb side. That indicates the there were a left and a right to many pieces of equipment. But other pieces are designed to have one model that works either way. That could be a supply nightmare I would think!
Was there a lot on the U-995/KNM Kaura that showed "mirror" design, if you can recall?
Christopher

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #251 on: 13 Apr , 2012, 18:14 »
Hi Tore

What is this? And why are there three pipings leading to it?

Thanks, Simon


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #252 on: 13 Apr , 2012, 23:45 »
Tore -
I have noticed in my study of the forward torpedo room that there were many fixtures that were as you say "in mirror execution" - pieces that seem to have been designed for a given function on the port side, but could not be switched to the stb side. That indicates the there were a left and a right to many pieces of equipment. But other pieces are designed to have one model that works either way. That could be a supply nightmare I would think!
Was there a lot on the U-995/KNM Kaura that showed "mirror" design, if you can recall?
Christopher
Christopher
You are rigth. The logistic would be a nigthmare with mirror executions and particulary on a sub. Fulepumps is a good example, fuelinjectionparts are sensitve, important parts which need to be exchanged comparatively frequent. If f.i. the fuelpumps were in mirror execution you had to store twice as much onboard  in restricted space. It was easier to adapt the movement of the fuelrack. There were not many mirrorexecutions on KNM Kaura ex U 995.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #253 on: 14 Apr , 2012, 00:39 »
Hi Tore

What is this? And why are there three pipings leading to it?

Thanks, Simon


Simon
I cannot see all the details, but I believe it is a hydraulic amplifyer on the fuellink. The centrifugal governor should be fitted in the aft end, I believe geardriven from the camshaft, I don`t remember the details but the system works like this: the springloaded sentrifugal weigths of the governor are forced in and out by the engine revs. pulling an oilslide up and down feeding oil under pressure from the luboilsystem to a piston in the amplifyer which then is moving the fuellinkage and HP fuelpumpracks maintaining the revs of the engine. I believe you can see an  adjustingscrew on the anglelever for adjusting the linkage in relation to the amplifyer (governor). The pipes should the be luboilpipes coming from the governor/luboilpump and returning to luboiltank. The system could be overruled from the maneuvringstand
Tore 

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #254 on: 14 Apr , 2012, 00:44 »
Simon
The little red knob on top of the amplifyer is a bleedingcock for deaerating the oilsystem. It shouldn`t be red.
Tore
« Last Edit: 14 Apr , 2012, 05:38 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #255 on: 14 Apr , 2012, 00:59 »
Simon
Sometimes a simple sketch explains more than words and I`m posting a sketch as a follow up of my story.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #256 on: 14 Apr , 2012, 02:10 »
A small remark on the fuelpumps. The arrangement for the fuelpumps is of course for the stb engine, for the port engine the fuelpumps shall be the opposite e.g. the fuelrack positionmarks are pointing forward and the movement of the fuelracklink is opposite the stb link. The reason is that the fuelpumps are not in "mirror execution".
Tore
Simon
 I am sorry, you are quite rigth it is the port engine, I see you have connected the fuelpumps for cyl 4 and 5 which means you have bow to the rigth, I`m used to have the bow to the left, sorry for the confusion. When the governor(amplifyer) is hooked up there will be no confusion.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #257 on: 14 Apr , 2012, 06:43 »
Fuelrack
I realize the schematic sketch of the governor can be a bit confusing as the amplifyer is in mechanical connection with the governor whereas on the engine it is hydraulically connected. I `m posting a systemsketch which is more relevant to our system which migth give you a better understanding. Please forgive me for acting like a tutor, it is not my meaning at all, but I guess a draugthsman make a better drawing when understanding the working of the components.
Tore

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #258 on: 15 Apr , 2012, 08:16 »
Hi
What book are these drawing from?
I can't remember - I got when I had been working on the U Bootskunde f

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #259 on: 15 Apr , 2012, 11:06 »
Simon
As usual Maciek comes up with a lot of exellent drawings which are all better than my memory. It migth be a bit complicated to incorporate all this in your drawings as long as you don`t shall have a crossection drawing of the engines, so it migth be an idea to simplify it to the external parts. On the drawing below I have indicated where the mechanical connection ( not hydraulic) from the governor comes out of the camshaftcasing and operating the slidelever which is hinged in such a way that it stabilize the piston (and fuelrack) in the new position created by the sentrifugalforces on the governor. The slide is connected to two pipes, the top pipe is returnoil to the luboilsump tank, the lower is the fresh luboil pressure from the pump forward (see drawing below) I guess both goes to the aft before they connect up to their sources. The movement of the amplifierod is then transmitting the new position to the fuelracklinkage in a simple way seen on one of your photographs. I guess you have to observe that the fuelracklinks of stb engine goes the other way and hence it would be a different linkage on the stb side.I think you can see it partly on panorama picture from Laboe, may be you have a better picture.
Tore
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:13 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #260 on: 17 Apr , 2012, 14:21 »

Click picture to view in full view.

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #261 on: 18 Apr , 2012, 00:13 »
Simon
Very good!
A few remarks, the link from the governor (in the camshaftcasing) is connected to a "scalearm" with a pivot seen as a screw on the servomotor pedestall, on the other side at the scalearm is a vertical thin rod operating the slide, this rod can be seen a just a little left of the servomotor (amplifier) rod going vertically down to the fuelrackleverarm. The very visible oilpipes are marked on my drawing below. There are only two pipes, supply and return. On the fwd side of the fuelracklink you have the cylinderliner lubricator driven by an arm from the fwd valverocker pushrodconnection driving the lubricator via a ratchetconnection. The pipes from lubricator are two per cylinder. The fuelracklink is connected to the fuelhandle on the maneuvring stand, I don`t think you should have any oval slots in that link as you want a precise movement and no slack. I cannot remember the excact linkage but may be you have a picture to share. 
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #262 on: 18 Apr , 2012, 00:57 »
Simon
I realize i should probably elaborate a little more on the lubricator. They are small plungers (12 per lubricator) pumping droplets to be seen through the front sigthglass so you can ascertain  each cylinder is lubricated. I have added a few details on the drawning below hopefully to make it clearer.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #263 on: 18 Apr , 2012, 04:03 »
The fuelracklink is connected to the fuelhandle on the maneuvring stand, I don`t think you should have any oval slots in that link as you want a precise movement and no slack. I cannot remember the excact linkage but may be you have a picture to share. 

Hi Tore

I only have one very poor picture of this area. I thought it was not correct to have an oval slot. But if you look at the picture below, just to the left of the connected, there look like a very small oval slots. What do you think?

« Last Edit: 18 Apr , 2012, 04:23 by NZSnowman »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #264 on: 18 Apr , 2012, 04:11 »
Simon
Very good!
A few remarks, the link from the governor (in the camshaftcasing) is connected to a "scalearm" with a pivot seen as a screw on the servomotor pedestall, on the other side at the scalearm is a vertical thin rod operating the slide, this rod can be seen a just a little left of the servomotor (amplifier) rod going vertically down to the fuelrackleverarm. The very visible oilpipes are marked on my drawing below. There are only two pipes, supply and return. On the fwd side of the fuelracklink you have the cylinderliner lubricator driven by an arm from the fwd valverocker pushrodconnection driving the lubricator via a ratchetconnection. The pipes from lubricator are two per cylinder. The fuelracklink is connected to the fuelhandle on the maneuvring stand, I don`t think you should have any oval slots in that link as you want a precise movement and no slack. I cannot remember the excact linkage but may be you have a picture to share. 
Tore

Thanks for the feedback  :) :)
 
I forgot about the slide rod to the fuel rack lever arm, I will add this in a few days.
 
I have drawn all the other detail you talked about above but they are on different layers of the drawing. That is why they are not display in this drawing. I will combare the layers and post pictures soon.
« Last Edit: 18 Apr , 2012, 04:23 by NZSnowman »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #265 on: 18 Apr , 2012, 04:23 »
Tore, today I was updating these two piping on my drawing. Are they oil return pipes?


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #266 on: 18 Apr , 2012, 06:00 »
The fuelracklink is connected to the fuelhandle on the maneuvring stand, I don`t think you should have any oval slots in that link as you want a precise movement and no slack. I cannot remember the excact linkage but may be you have a picture to share. 

Hi Tore

I only have one very poor picture of this area. I thought it was not correct to have an oval slot. But if you look at the picture below, just to the left of the connected, there look like a very small oval slots. What do you think?


We see only the part of the fuellinkage belonging to fuelpump no 1.so the oval slot belongs to the no1 fuelpumplink and is OK there are further linkages going down to the linkagesupport and a link disappearing towards the center of the enginefront connecting to the fuelhandle with some interlocks etc which is not visible and very complicated to incorporate. My advice is to show the lingkage as drawn, but add the pedestallinkage as you migth be able to figure out looking at my two drawings below
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #267 on: 18 Apr , 2012, 06:24 »
Tore, today I was updating these two piping on my drawing. Are they oil return pipes?


Simon
No, the visible part of the luboil pipes to and from fuelrod servomotor is going down and aft, then I guess the supply pipe is coming from the luboil linebranch just after  the oilcooler up front and is fitted under the floorplates and the return pipe goes to the valvechest under the floor where is is distributed to lubil tanks stb and port. As far as I can see the pipe you are pointing out is cylindercover coolingwater pipes.
Tore
« Last Edit: 18 Apr , 2012, 07:32 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #268 on: 18 Apr , 2012, 09:11 »
Simon
The lubricator ratchetlever is fitted with holes for capacityadjustment, see picture below.The starting- and fuelhandles are marked as well.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #269 on: 18 Apr , 2012, 09:31 »
As a follow up of the lubricator I`m posting a cross section drawing explaining the working.
Tore
« Last Edit: 18 Apr , 2012, 10:16 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #270 on: 22 Apr , 2012, 03:00 »
Simon
Looking at your last post, I wasn`t sure you got my idea about the governor servomotor oilpipes OK so I post a couple of pictures marking off the pipes. Both pipes, not three, are bundled together as shown and goes aft along the roots blowercasing (fixed to that) to about middle of the housing (sorry no picture) then goes down and disappear under the floor where the return (blue) joins the main engine returnoilpipe. The luboilpressurepipe I believe goes under the floor up front to the branch off  just after the luboilcooler marked red on the systemsketch. The returnpipes are marked blue.
Tore
« Last Edit: 12 Mar , 2014, 01:35 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #271 on: 01 May , 2012, 08:44 »
Governor servomotor supply and return oilpipes.
Simon finally I got hold of a photo showing the two pipes previously discussed. As you see on the picture below they are bundled together and fixed to the Roots blower before going down under the floor as mentioned before.
Tore

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #272 on: 10 May , 2012, 05:17 »
Tore


Being in the aft torpedo room topic - do you remember, what is this device?




It is connected by means of the wheel gear with the handle:




General view:





--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
« Last Edit: 10 May , 2012, 11:41 by SnakeDoc »

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #273 on: 10 May , 2012, 05:53 »
Tore,
on one of your drawing you have marked the location of th air coolers for E-motors:





Could you mark theirs location on the horizontal cross-section? I wonder, where are they fitted.
The same request about the electrically driven cooling water pump, which enabled water circulation during submerged cruise.


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
« Last Edit: 10 May , 2012, 11:42 by SnakeDoc »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #274 on: 10 May , 2012, 10:07 »
Maciek
For some reason your pictures came out as a red x on my computer. So I have to comment based on your text. It could be the exhaust outlet from the Junker compressor as far as I remember it was operated by a valve wheel with a spindle for grinding the carbon deposits by hand,not airmotor as for the mainengines.
Tore













Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #275 on: 10 May , 2012, 10:34 »
E-motorcoolers
I believe the coolers No1 & 2 stb as well as no 1 & 2 port were placed under the stored torpedo towards the centerline, but I`m not 110% sure.
On the crossection drw of U570 in the E compartment are two circles which I believe could be the stb and port coolers.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #276 on: 10 May , 2012, 10:39 »
Sorry I`m currently on my little farm in very remote area where my internet connection sometime is very bad. Today is one of those days so I have some problem in sending and recieving pictures right now.
Tore

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #277 on: 10 May , 2012, 11:44 »
Tore


Thank you very much for your answer.


For some reason your pictures came out as a red x on my computer. So I have to comment based on your text.


I moved the pictures into another server, maybe now they will be visible.


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #278 on: 10 May , 2012, 23:13 »
Thanks Maciek i got the pictures. I believe it`s what i said.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #279 on: 10 May , 2012, 23:50 »
Maciek
I forgot your coolingwater pump question. I believe it`s fitted on port side rigth where the emergencysteering wheel is stowed. It`s a relatively small centrifugal circulation pump.
Tore
« Last Edit: 10 May , 2012, 23:53 by tore »

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #280 on: 11 May , 2012, 08:14 »
Hi Tore
It could be the exhaust outlet from the Junker compressor as far as I remember it was operated by a valve wheel with a spindle for grinding the carbon deposits by hand,not airmotor as for the mainengines.


I have found following description in the British Report on U-570 - HMS Graph (http://uboatarchive.net/U-570BritishReport.htm):
Quote
  5.  In the case of the Junker's air compressor exhaust valve, the valve floats on the end of the main spindle.  It is rotated by an extension from the valve passing down the centre of the main spindle and is turned by hand.





So I guess, the hand wheel is the part of the valve and the red bar handle is the part of the grinding gear, right?


--
Thanks, regards

Maciek


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #281 on: 11 May , 2012, 09:57 »
Yes Maciek
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #282 on: 13 May , 2012, 06:15 »
I have with pleasure noticed there are still modellers who start building various versions of the VIICs and seeing the results I`m impressed with the skill and patience they put into the work. However it strikes me that a lot of effort is put into the canning and wheathering and some of the models look to me a bit overdone. The average lifetime for a VIIc during the war was relatively short and the pressurehull didn`t have much visible canning nor corrosion as on present days  U- 995 more than 60 years old. There could be a little canning on the casing, but to my opinion not always very visible. As an example I`m posting  pictures of different stages in the life of  U-995. 1. At the end of the war 1945 being 2 years old, 1953 KNM Kaura ex U-995 after 8 months  in service, 1954  showing KNM Kaura ex U-995 in drydock  being 11 years old and just after 12 months autum- and winterservice in the hostile waters above the artic circle, and 1972 U-995 just in place at the war memorial at Laboe, Kiel.  As you may be able to see it is very little canning and moderate weathering (1954 drydock) in spite of the though service she had. The welding seams and the casing rivets are also bearly visible. A few VIICs could be pretty weatherbeaten no doubt, but in general they did`t look like Das Boot in the movie. So if you want to give an authetic view of a VIIC show a bit moderation in emphasising on the weathering, canning, weldingseams and rivets even if it`s great fun doing it.
Tore
« Last Edit: 13 May , 2012, 06:24 by tore »

Offline Rokket

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2,362
  • Gender: Male
  • Submarine Enthusiast
    • AMP - Accurate Model Parts
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #283 on: 19 May , 2012, 18:06 »
Hi Tore,

Good advice I think! And the rest of what follows of mine means little because you are a vet and were there! I'm just an armchair historian! But it might have some small use...

That 3rd shot shows the perfect amount of canning in my opinion...My experience is that any sheet metal on ribs will have some dish/can effect because of imperfect materials, expansion/contraction, etc. I've seen the QEII and almost any ship - well, whatever the name or effect, overall you can easily tell sheets of metal are affixed to ribs, because you can see subtle differences where the ribs are and are not.  think it's important to communicate that, otherwise a model can look like a solid piece of plastic.

Weathering - I forget if it was Eugene Fluckey or Richard O'Kane, but one of them was walking back to their USN Gato at Midway, and almost didn't recognize her: because they obviously never got an overall view while at sea, but at the pier the hull, originally all black and clean, was faded to many grays and charcoals, and had chipping and salt spray weathering all over, looking rather old and tired after only 6-8 weeks at sea. In Iron Coffins the same thing happened to Werner, although with his patrol history not quite matching records, maybe he was being dramatic!
AMP - Accurate Model Parts - http://amp.rokket.biz

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #284 on: 20 May , 2012, 00:22 »
Wink
 If you have driven a car for 60 years doesn`t mean you know all about driving and I for sure make mistakes and have failing memories (I`m going on 84). You are rigth about the canning can be caused by expansion /contraction sometimes due to welding. Many new ships have very visible canning on their deliveryday.( on the U 995 picture below you see the result of a brand new welding which never have been at sea). On naval vessels particulary destroyers and frigates this is sometimes very visible. On submarines, anyhow german and british built, you are sometimes able to see canning on the ligth casing, but very seldom on the pressurehull. The VIICs had a very ligth and susceptible casingconstruction and we had dammages to the casing. I particulary remember we crossed the North Sea in the month of November for noisetrials in Scotland and we had a terrible weather, 1/3 of the casing was smashed by the sea and we came in almost like a tube. On the Laboe U 995 you see some dents and canning,  particulary on the new plating which they have welded and not rivited. Some other indentions are due to old minor collision dammages. I am posting a few picture below to explain what I mean.
Tore
« Last Edit: 20 May , 2012, 00:29 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #285 on: 20 May , 2012, 01:54 »
As a follow up on my theory on submarine canning/ indents, I`m posting a picture of a naval surfacevessel which shows how it might be in some cases on surfaceships.
Tore

Offline Rokket

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2,362
  • Gender: Male
  • Submarine Enthusiast
    • AMP - Accurate Model Parts
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #286 on: 22 May , 2012, 02:43 »
You're a treasure and we hope to have for for 84 more years!

That shot of 995 was very angular, perhaps a new word is needed to be accurate: it's not really canning in that shot, but does show ribs...maybe: "ribbing"???

Something to show it's not a plastic hull.

I imagine surface ships, especially that frigate with the V, would get a a lot of wave slapping, too.

Thanks for the pix and the discussion starter!

AMP - Accurate Model Parts - http://amp.rokket.biz

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #287 on: 23 May , 2012, 14:55 »
Tore, did you take this picture while on KNM Kaura?  I am trying to figure out the date of the picture, as you can clearly see the colour coding on the piping :-)


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #288 on: 23 May , 2012, 23:14 »
Simon
This picture is not from my time onboard I guess it is from 1970- 1972 just after the germans had (carefully) restaured the U 995  for the first time. I have been looking at my pictures and cannot se the paintings (very bad quality). As told previously we didn`t use the coding very much. My idea is that the whole design of the german sub is based on the possibility that it should be able to be handled by relatively poor trained crew compared to the the UK and US crew. We had very experienced crew recruited from our fairly large merchant marine thus we didn`t use the colourcoding, today it is used all over.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #289 on: 23 May , 2012, 23:26 »
Simon
Looking at your last post, I wasn`t sure you got my idea about the governor servomotor oilpipes OK so I post a couple of pictures marking off the pipes. Both pipes, not three, are bundled together as shown and goes aft along the roots blowercasing (fixed to that) to about middle of the housing (sorry no picture) then goes down and disappear under the floor where the return (blue) joins the main engine returnoilpipe. The luboilpressurepipe I believe goes under the floor up front to the branch off  just after the luboilcooler marked red on the systemsketch. The returnpipes are marked blue.
Tore




Tore, do you remember how the red line would run forward or have a suggestion on how it return?

Would it return just under the floor deck (green arrow) or would it be lower down like near the top of the oil ranks (blue arrow)? Any help would be grateful as I would like to add it to the drawing


Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #290 on: 23 May , 2012, 23:28 »
Simon
This picture is not from my time onboard I guess it is from 1970- 1972 just after the germans had (carefully) restaured the U 995  for the first time. I have been looking at my pictures and cannot se the paintings (very bad quality). As told previously we didn`t use the coding very much. My idea is that the whole design of the german sub is based on the possibility that it should be able to be handled by relatively poor trained crew compared to the the UK and US crew. We had very experienced crew recruited from our fairly large merchant marine thus we didn`t use the colourcoding, today it is used all over.
Tore

Thanks Tore!

My idea is that the whole design of the german sub is based on the possibility that it should be able to be handled by relatively poor trained crew compared to the the UK and US crew

A very war-time thing to do I imagine.

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #291 on: 23 May , 2012, 23:58 »
Simon
I discovered another detail which perhaps support my theory. On the first restaurationpicture they have fitted, what I presume is a startinginstruction plate we didn`t have such, that would have been an insult to the engineers. On later picture of the Laboe U 995 these plates are gone, souvenier hunters? I am posting two pictures showing this plea excuse the terrible quality of the photo from my time, but I didn`t any other.
Tore
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:15 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #292 on: 24 May , 2012, 00:21 »
Supplypipe to governor servomotor.
I cannot for 100% sure remember where the supplypipe was placed under the deckplating. I don`t think it was fitted as your red arrow points out, that would be in conflict with the crankcasedoors, more as pointed out by the blue arrow may be  a bit higher. The return pipe (blue) connects with returnpipe from the supercharger and then the distributionvalvechest. The returnpipe from the supercharger seem to have an unusual bend (rigth were the red clutchwheel is). Your drawing is as usual a pleasure to look at
Tore
« Last Edit: 24 May , 2012, 00:23 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #293 on: 24 May , 2012, 00:57 »
I have tried to indicate the supply  (red) pipe and returnpipe (blue) on your drawing. all the blue lines merge and end up in the valvechest, which can`t be seen on this drawing.
Tore
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:27 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #294 on: 24 May , 2012, 01:08 »
Sorry Simon I posted the wrong picture, it`s corrected now.
tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #295 on: 24 May , 2012, 01:45 »
Tore, is this the oil cooler (red arrow)?



Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #296 on: 24 May , 2012, 01:48 »
I have the feeling a further detail of the luboilsystem is probably required. I`m posting a picture of the port system where I have coulored the returnpipes blue and pressurepipes red.
Tore
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:28 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #297 on: 24 May , 2012, 02:09 »
Tore, I just noted a charge between U-995 and the plans with the pipe under the super charger. On the plans it layout this like in red, but in real life it like in the drawing & picture. Do you think there a reason they change the layout? Maybe they change the layout to get around the clutch.

Also, should I have the wheel in red, or should it be unpainted?





Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #298 on: 24 May , 2012, 02:10 »
I have the feeling a further detail of the luboilsystem is probably required. I`m posting a picture of the port system where I have coulored the returnpipes blue and pressurepipes red.
Tore

Thanks a lot! This help me understand  :) :)

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #299 on: 24 May , 2012, 02:26 »
Hi Simon
Also, should I have the wheel in red, orshould it be unpainted?


Take a look here:



It looks like it was painted with black.


--
Regards
Maciek

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #300 on: 24 May , 2012, 02:42 »
Thanks Maciek

Maciek, this the red arrow in post #295 the oil cooler?

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #301 on: 24 May , 2012, 04:15 »
It was for sure not red, black is very probable, I would have preferred unpainted but I really don`t remember.
Tore
« Last Edit: 24 May , 2012, 07:06 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #302 on: 24 May , 2012, 05:07 »
Luboil cooler.
Its a bit hard to say it looks a bit small. I guess we have to figure the pipelineconnections. You should have seawater inlet and outlet, main luboil pipe from oilpump pipe chest to coolerinlet and main luboil pipe cooled oilpipe out to a 3 way cock and a branch off to the governor servomotor. Then a smallby pass pipe luboil out next to the inlet and return to the systemtank. That makes 5 pipeconnections directly on the coolerhousing. On your drawing I recognize two, but the placing and the tubular look certainly could illustrate the luboilcooler when the piping is upgraded.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #303 on: 24 May , 2012, 06:58 »
Tore, I just noted a charge between U-995 and the plans with the pipe under the super charger. On the plans it layout this like in red, but in real life it like in the drawing & picture. Do you think there a reason they change the layout? May be they change the layout to get around the clutch.

Also, should I have the wheel in red, or should it be unpainted?





Having a closer look at the supply/returnpipes I believe there is indeed a bend in the return pipe,but I believe it migth be only to follow the Roots blower gearcasing. I cannot see the reason for an alongship bend.the supplypipe seem to be running straigth
Tore
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:30 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #304 on: 24 May , 2012, 19:16 »
Tore, how was the floor plating supported between the two engines?

Was it supported directly to the engines (fig. 1) or was it supported by a number of legs from the top of the oil tanks and was not attach to the engine in any way (fig. 2).


Figure 1.


Figure 2.

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #305 on: 25 May , 2012, 00:34 »
Simon
I cannot remember for 100% sure, but if you look at the drawing of the GW engine below I have indicated the floor approximately by a green line. The crankcasedoors are marked as well. You wouldn`t fix anything permanently to the engine block (crankcase) which obstruct the crankcase access. I believe in fact that any floorsupports would not be fitted on the engine above the foundation, the floorplates had to be easy to remove. Your fig. 2 could be an alternative, but I would guess the supports would possibly go down to the foundation area and the bar alongside the engine would be in bolted sections not fixed to the engine above the foundation. This is for the GW engines and an assumption from my side.
Tore
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:30 by tore »

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #306 on: 25 May , 2012, 03:51 »
Hi Simon
Maciek, this the red arrow in post #295 the oil cooler?


Well, I guess so.


--
Regards
Maciek

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #307 on: 25 May , 2012, 09:21 »
Floorplating engineroom.
To follow up my theory and better than an old mans memory, I post a picture which I believe shows that there are no contacts with the floorplatings (supports) and the main engines.
Tore
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:16 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #308 on: 25 May , 2012, 09:39 »
Luboilcooler.
I can confirm the that the shown item is the luboilcooler, even if the Uboat historia tells it`s a filter. However I think it would be an advantage to have a closer look at the pipings. Below I have indicated  (green) a bit simplified the seacooling waterpipes. Together with the previous posted luboilpipes (connections) it migth be possible to figure out how the hook up is. The seacoolingwater chest have 5 valves and is situated towards the fwd enginroombulkhead I believe.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #309 on: 25 May , 2012, 14:59 »
Floorplating engineroom.
To follow up my theory and better than an old mans memory, I post a picture which I believe shows that there are no contacts with the floorplatings (supports) and the main engines.
Tore

I also believe there no contacts with the floorplatings (supports) and the main engines, as if there was a slight different in frequency between the engines, the floorplatings would rattle itself to died.

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #310 on: 25 May , 2012, 15:31 »
Luboilcooler.
I can confirm the that the shown item is the luboilcooler, even if the Uboat historia tells it`s a filter. However I think it would be an advantage to have a closer look at the pipings. Below I have indicated  (green) a bit simplified the seacooling waterpipes. Together with the previous posted luboilpipes (connections) it migth be possible to figure out how the hook up is. The seacoolingwater chest have 5 valves and is situated towards the fwd enginroombulkhead I believe.
Tore

Hi Tore

I feel that the seacoolingwater chest (5 valves) was location fwd enginroombulkhead and on the starborad side of the boat. I also believe this is picture below (#2)


Tore, could this be the sea water inlet valve (Below # 13 & 14)

Picture from http://www.u-historia.com/

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #311 on: 25 May , 2012, 19:00 »
Luboilcooler.
I can confirm the that the shown item is the luboilcooler, even if the Uboat historia tells it`s a filter. However I think it would be an advantage to have a closer look at the pipings. Below I have indicated  (green) a bit simplified the seacooling waterpipes. Together with the previous posted luboilpipes (connections) it migth be possible to figure out how the hook up is. The seacoolingwater chest have 5 valves and is situated towards the fwd enginroombulkhead I believe.
Tore

Thanks, Tore for the information.

Here the layout in real life between the Cooler and 5 valves.



Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #312 on: 26 May , 2012, 00:14 »
Simon
The valvechest shown is indeed the seawater chest and has branch off to stb and port luboilcooler. I am posting a brushed up version of the seawater coolingsystem.
The blue line is the suction from sea. First the conventional hull seavalve (seen on your U historia picture 13) same has an air blow connection for seaweedcleaning, then as always on the seavalves, a second valve  (sluicevalve to be shut for depthcharges) also seen on your picture, 14, and a filter. The pipes ends up at the engine attached pistonpump  fwd end of engine.
Then the colour changes to green(pressureside) passes an airvessel ( to compensate for the pistonpump pressurevariations) and continues as previously explained.
Tore
« Last Edit: 26 May , 2012, 00:17 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #313 on: 26 May , 2012, 00:20 »
Floorplating engineroom.
To follow up my theory and better than an old mans memory, I post a picture which I believe shows that there are no contacts with the floorplatings (supports) and the main engines.
Tore

I also believe there no contacts with the floorplatings (supports) and the main engines, as if there was a slight different in frequency between the engines, the floorplatings would rattle itself to died.
Simon.
You have a point there.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #314 on: 26 May , 2012, 00:40 »
Thanks Tore.

What is a "Air vessel"? What does it do?

This the "CW Pump" atteched to the engine? I been looking for it all day and can not find them.

Here the layout so far  :)

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #315 on: 26 May , 2012, 00:58 »
An airvessel ( sometimes called windvessel) is only a " bulb" rigth after a pistonpump. It contains an air cushion which act like a buffer and equalizes the pressure fluctuations coming from a reciprocating machinery like a pistonpump. Nothing much, just a casted "blimp" migth be an airconnection on the top.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #316 on: 26 May , 2012, 01:20 »
Coolingwater pump.
The seacooling waterpump as far as I remember was placed fwd at the engine on port engine stb side fairly low down. On the posted picture I have indicated what I think is the pump.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #317 on: 26 May , 2012, 01:34 »
Coolingwater pump.
The seacooling waterpump as far as I remember was placed fwd at the engine on port engine stb side fairly low down. On the posted picture I have indicated what I think is the pump.
Tore

A big thanks Tore! I been looking for it all day, never thought it been could be on the engine  :D

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #318 on: 26 May , 2012, 01:40 »
Seawaterchest.
Your nice drawing of the chest was in the beginning a bit confusing to me, it looked like the stb engine was connected directly to port and that port ended nowhere. Is it by any means you are able to make it clear that they are connected to two different outlets of the chest?
Tore   

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #319 on: 26 May , 2012, 02:15 »
Tore, hope this makes it a little clear to understand. I think I now know that you are talking about, I just realise the Purple & Green lines on my drawing are the wrong way around  :( I will fix this tomorrow.




Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #320 on: 26 May , 2012, 02:33 »
Coolingwater pump.
The seacooling waterpump as far as I remember was placed fwd at the engine on port engine stb side fairly low down. On the posted picture I have indicated what I think is the pump.
Tore

Tore I also just found this  :)

Quote
U-Boat Type VIIC Manual - Page 120

Cooling water pump

The cooling water for cooling the engine lubricating oil cooler, the cylinder barrels, cylinder heads, exhaust valves and exhaust manifolds is fed by a double-piston pump. The drive of the pump takes place via the crank, which is propelled by gear wheel transmission from the crankshaft (Ratio 2:1).

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #321 on: 26 May , 2012, 02:41 »
Here the correct layout. Could not wait till morning. Would hate to see U-1308 go to sea with bad piping ;D


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #322 on: 26 May , 2012, 07:17 »
Good thing you are at sleep.
The  redchecked pipe on your drawing is the seawater crossoverline, it ends on both sides in the same way, I believe you have indicated stb only. So may be you should add the two valves after the filter on port as well. You could perhaps add the standard weed airblow cleaning (both sides). From the seawater crossoverline are the suction side connection to both pistonpumps on the engines, and on stb side the the suction on electric driven ciculationpump, and handpump, see the posted picture marked green. I believe there is a mistake in the system drawing indicating no suctionconnection to the stb enginepump from the crossover.
Tore
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:32 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #323 on: 26 May , 2012, 08:31 »
Luboil cooler seawaterpiping.
The pipes from the engine pumps goes to the valvechest ( there are two more pipes as well, forget about them now) and are distributed via your green and violet lines to the luboilcoolers. enters the luboilcoolers via a selectorvalve which means it can either enter the cooler or bypass it. Normal position is enter and the inlet connection to the outlet is shut. Hence it goes via the coolers and cools the oil before it goes to the engines a little heated  in order to prevent a coldshock to the engines.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #324 on: 26 May , 2012, 13:43 »
Luboilcooler 2
As far as I can see the luboilcooler bypass pipe seems to be without contact with the selectorvalve but disappear into the housing, is it any reason for that, I should believe it would be more like the red pipe indicated on the posted picture , you have in fact indicated the same by blue overunning the pipe. On my posted picture I have indicated on the crossover line where I believe the suctionconnections to the various pumps are.
Tore
« Last Edit: 26 May , 2012, 14:24 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #325 on: 26 May , 2012, 14:52 »
Luboilcooler 2
As far as I can see the luboilcooler bypass pipe seems to be without contact with the selectorvalve but disappear into the housing, is any reason for that, I should believe it would be more like the red pipe indicated on the posted picture , you have in fact indicated the same by blue overunning the pipe. On my posted picture I have indicated on the crossover line where I believe the suctionconnections to the various pumps are.
Tore

* Tore, Thanks for all the information!!!! :) It mean a lot that you are willing to help. They perhaps are little detail,  but to me, knowing that they were wrong would drive me mad!

* Yes, you are right about the luboilcooler bypass pipe seems to be without contact with the selectorvalve. I misread the system drawing yesterday, will fix this today :)

* Also really happy that you think the system drawing is wrong about indicating no suctionconnection to the stb enginepump from the crossover. Yesterday I spend about 8 hours looking at that system drawing trying to workout why the German Engineers had made no connection to the stb engine pump ???

* I will also do the miss port side sea inlet valve today. As a little tried last night to finish the drawing.

Low Pressure "weed airblow cleaning"

I was able to find the system drawing for this :) Also from the picture below, there look like two positions where the low pressure air entered the sea valve, this is correct?

Maciek, do you know this section of the Low Pressure system?









Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #326 on: 26 May , 2012, 15:16 »
I would believe the violet LP pipes are the rigth ones. You are awake and up, I am about to hit the sack in a heatwave 28 degrees C. All the snow is melting in the mountains which means the annual springflood is on its way, nothing serious though. Good luck with your work looking forward to see the results tomorrow.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #327 on: 26 May , 2012, 23:56 »
Seaweedcleaning.
I`m not sure if I misunderstood you. I think the the boardvalve (outer) opens  inward. In the event that seaweed obstruct the intake, the second valve (sluicevalve) is shut and LP air valve is opened allowing the air to the space between the sea and sluicevalve thereby blowing  the weed out. I don`t think there is any airconnection to the sluicevalve.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #328 on: 27 May , 2012, 06:49 »
Luboilreturnpipes.
I have been looking a bit more on the subject, see picture below. I think the strange bends on you drawings migth come from the relatively large returnpipe from the Roots blower (blue).The supplyline to the servomotor (green) is coming from underneath the deckplating and is fairly straigth. The servomotor returnpipe (yellow) is making a bend under the Roots blower casing for some reason unknown to me, but anyhow it has to connect to the larger pipe from the blower.
Tore
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:32 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #329 on: 27 May , 2012, 07:15 »
Airvessel
As it seems to be an unknown item, I guess a picture would help when you are drawing same. It is not the airvessel on the engine attached coolingwaterpump but the airvessel on the piston trimpump.
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:33 by tore »

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #330 on: 27 May , 2012, 15:18 »
Hi Tore
I believe there is a mistake in the system drawingindicating no suctionconnection to the stb enginepump from the crossover.


You are right - on the original, german drawing it is drawn correct:



--
Regards
Maciek

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #331 on: 27 May , 2012, 15:22 »
Hi Tore
I`m not sure if I misunderstood you. I think the the boardvalve (outer) opens  inward. In the event that seaweed obstruct the intake, the second valve (sluicevalve) is shut and LP air valve is opened allowing the air to the space between the sea and sluicevalve thereby blowing  the weed out. I don`t think there is any airconnection to the sluicevalve.


I guess, your explaination is also correct for my question asked some time ago:
Quote
I have got another question regarding to the low pressure air installation - I have noticed, that hull valve in the E-motor/Aft torpedo room (E-motor cooling water intake and torpedo compensating tanks flooding) has also connection to thelow pressure air installation. I wonder what is for - I guess it was used to "crack" the valve - to help opening valve at greater depth or with the jammed valve. Is that right?
http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=121.msg10617#msg10617


It's great to get confirmation.


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek


Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #332 on: 27 May , 2012, 15:25 »
Tore, back to the question about location of the cooling water pump in E-motor room:
I believe it`s fitted on port side rigth where the emergencysteering wheel is stowed. It`s a relatively small centrifugal circulation pump.


I found pictures which fit with your answer:


(source: u-historia.com)


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #333 on: 27 May , 2012, 16:03 »
Hi Simon
Maciek, do you know this section of the Low Pressure system?
Not really. I also think, that there is no connection with the sluicevalve. I think that there is visible "main lp line", going through the diesel engine room, there is a branch to the hull valve blowing connections, then the valve (which does not fit), and above it the branches to the stb and port hull valve. There is also one line, which also does not fit. I will try to figure it out when I will get a while.


--
Regards
Maciek

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #334 on: 27 May , 2012, 22:35 »
Luboilreturnpipes.
I have been looking a bit more on the subject, see picture below. I think the strange bends on you drawings migth come from the relatively large returnpipe from the Roots blower (blue).The supplyline to the servomotor (green) is coming from underneath the deckplating and is fairly straigth. The servomotor returnpipe (yellow) is making a bend under the Roots blower casing for some reason unknown to me, but anyhow it has to connect to the larger pipe from the blower.
Tore

Great picture! It conform a few things for me  :)

I had a good idea that the servomotor returnpipe (yellow) line bend under the Roots blower casing, but this picture conform it. It bend back so it can join the Roots blower (blue) line. I have a clear picture that show this. I have already update my drawing to show this.

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #335 on: 27 May , 2012, 22:37 »
Airvessel
As it seems to be an unknown item, I guess a picture would help when you are drawing same. It is not the airvessel on the engine attached coolingwaterpump but the airvessel on the piston trimpump.

Thanks for the picture. Very useful. Now I have a idea that to draw and look for  :) :)

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #336 on: 27 May , 2012, 22:42 »
Hi Tore
I believe there is a mistake in the system drawingindicating no suctionconnection to the stb enginepump from the crossover.


You are right - on the original, german drawing it is drawn correct:



--
Regards
Maciek

I am glad that both of you guys found this mistake :) Like I said before I spends a few hours trying to workout why the German Engineers had made no connection to the stb engine pump.

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #337 on: 27 May , 2012, 22:44 »
Hi Simon
Maciek, do you know this section of the Low Pressure system?
Not really. I also think, that there is no connection with the sluicevalve. I think that there is visible "main lp line", going through the diesel engine room, there is a branch to the hull valve blowing connections, then the valve (which does not fit), and above it the branches to the stb and port hull valve. There is also one line, which also does not fit. I will try to figure it out when I will get a while.


--
Regards
Maciek

Thanks  :) :)

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #338 on: 27 May , 2012, 22:53 »
Hi Tore

I been away today and I am away tomorrow but I should have the new drawing ready in a few days.
 
I am really happy with the updated drawings as I have workout a few more pipes and corrected a few valves to there correct style :) I have found doing both (lateral and dorsal) views at the same time has help heaps to increase the accurate of the drawing.

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #339 on: 27 May , 2012, 23:16 »
Maciek
I had forgotten your question about the seaweedblowing, good it popped up later. As a curiousium I can mention the arrangement is useful even today, not so much for seaweeds, but all the plastic floating around. A plastic sheet can very effectively block the seawater intake.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #340 on: 27 May , 2012, 23:42 »
Seaweed blowing
I realize this morning that my second reply yesterday on the subject for some reason was not posted. I am posting a picture where I have tried to figure out how it works. The biggest pipe, marked blue is the LP main supplypipe going all the way through the boat. The green line is the weedblowing branch off to a distribution valve. The yellow line is the supplyline which goes via the local seaweed blowingvalve and then to the board seavalve. This is an assumtion I don`t remember for sure.
Tore
« Last Edit: 28 May , 2012, 00:04 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #341 on: 27 May , 2012, 23:53 »
Hi Tore

I been away today and I am away tomorrow but I should have the new drawing ready in a few days.
 
I am really happy with the updated drawings as I have workout a few more pipes and corrected a few valves to there correct style :) I have found doing both (lateral and dorsal) views at the same time has help heaps to increase the accurate of the drawing.

I agree with you and are looking forward to seeing the drawing. I suppose you intend to brush up all the systems in the engineroom, that`s a vast task but very interesting. It`s just like beeing onboard again, we`ll get your U 1308 running properly in spite of wrong drawings.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #342 on: 28 May , 2012, 00:17 »
Hi Tore

I been away today and I am away tomorrow but I should have the new drawing ready in a few days.
 
I am really happy with the updated drawings as I have workout a few more pipes and corrected a few valves to there correct style :) I have found doing both (lateral and dorsal) views at the same time has help heaps to increase the accurate of the drawing.

I agree with you and are looking forward to seeing the drawing. I suppose you intend to brush up all the systems in the engineroom, that`s a vast task but very interesting. It`s just like beeing onboard again, we`ll get your U 1308 running properly in spite of wrong drawings.
Tore

I decide to put my other projects on hold for a while and review my engine room drawings for the few weeks before I start full time work in the snow, plus how often can you ask someone who been in a Type VIIC

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #343 on: 28 May , 2012, 00:34 »
Simon
The idea of somebody on the same planet is just getting ready to work with the falling snow while for us mother nature is removing it quickly and put in flowers instead sounds crazy. I would rather be in a VIIC engineroom than the snow. The funny thing is I thougth I had forgotten everything, but it`s gradually coming back as I study the details.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #344 on: 28 May , 2012, 00:42 »
Tore, back to the question about location of the cooling water pump in E-motor room:
I believe it`s fitted on port side rigth where the emergencysteering wheel is stowed. It`s a relatively small centrifugal circulation pump.


I found pictures which fit with your answer:


(source: u-historia.com)


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
Very good! Marko you can even see the top of the thrustbearing
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #345 on: 28 May , 2012, 03:17 »
Simon
The idea of somebody on the same planet is just getting ready to work with the falling snow while for us mother nature is removing it quickly and put in flowers instead sounds crazy. I would rather be in a VIIC engineroom than the snow. The funny thing is I thougth I had forgotten everything, but it`s gradually coming back as I study the details.
Tore

What seen funny to me this...

The time "you" spend at sea would be equal to the time I have been forecasting avalanches & and the time "I" have been at sea equal to the time you have been chasing avalanche :-D

Number of days at sea: About 7 days.
Number of days in the snow: 22 years forecasting avalanche danger ;D

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #346 on: 28 May , 2012, 03:44 »
Simon
The idea of somebody on the same planet is just getting ready to work with the falling snow while for us mother nature is removing it quickly and put in flowers instead sounds crazy. I would rather be in a VIIC engineroom than the snow. The funny thing is I thougth I had forgotten everything, but it`s gradually coming back as I study the details.
Tore

Here my engine room and some pictures of my at work ;D


This is the view from the top of the mountain that I work at.


We used a lot of explosives to control the avalanches. Here me (left) teaching a younger ski patroller what to do.


Here my outside, making sure that is safe to clear the road. There is already over 3m of avalanche debris on the road.

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #347 on: 28 May , 2012, 05:01 »
Simon
Meaningful job you have. Even if we were running a submarine we were skiing a lot, the snow was rigth down to the sealevel as can be seen on the posted picture. We usually borrowed skis from a local armycamp and spent hours in the snow,  you could enjoy skiing till end june up north. Your mountains seems to be much like ours up north and northwest of our country. Our people doing the same job as yours had a busy time this winter as we had one of the worst avalance winter ever.
Tore
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:35 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #348 on: 30 May , 2012, 12:07 »
Maciek
 I think I remember you mentioned earlier that you are planning to visit the Laboe U 995 this summer or autumn. I guess you are making a list of what details you shall be studying and I presume you take a camera along. I have never visited her in her present state allthough passing the Denkmal many times by ship. Before you go, may be you`d be interested in the story how she actually ended on concrete supports at Laboe. KNM Kaura  ex U-995 was in active service in the Royal Norwegian Navy from December 1952 till December 1965. The latter part of her lifetime she was a "schoolboat". The first years, when I was on board she was a" frontline boat" and the CO, No 1 and me became very good friends who met after our service onboard occasionally to memorize old days. The CO has now passed away, but he mention a few interesting things on our social meetings.
After his time onboard, he became in the 1960 years  in charge of a newbuilding programme for the Norwegian navys new subs in Germany. During these years he came in contact with a number of german ex Ubootofficers, himshelf beeing a navyofficer with war experience on the allied side, had a few problems in the beginning but in the end he became friends with quite a few german officiers. I think he was even in a party with admiral D
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:35 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #349 on: 30 May , 2012, 14:46 »
Hi Tore

Great story!!

I was wondering do you have any pictures of the piping under the flooring of the engine room?

I can not imagine there a lot of space under the flooring with all the different piping system, especially not like you see in the Das Boot movie!  I have workout the easy piping, but there still big sections missings :( So I have started mapping the paths of the other piping systems, to help me fall in the missing sections of piping. I can not believe the German

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #350 on: 30 May , 2012, 15:32 »
Plate 14:  (Left) Engine lubricating oil system, (Right) lubricating oil storage, sump and purifying system, for Krupp engines


Q: Do you remember where the two pumps for cleaning are?



Q: The system drawing show two 3-ways valve, is this a error? Why would you need a 3-ways valve; a check valve should be Ok here or am I missing something.

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #351 on: 30 May , 2012, 22:46 »
Hi Tore

Great story!!

I was wondering do you have any pictures of the piping under the flooring of the engine room?

I can not imagine there a lot of space under the flooring with all the different piping system, especially not like you see in the Das Boot movie!  I have workout the easy piping, but there still big sections missings :( So I have started mapping the paths of the other piping systems, to help me fall in the missing sections of piping. I can not believe the German
« Last Edit: 30 May , 2012, 22:49 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #352 on: 30 May , 2012, 23:16 »
Luboil checkvalves.
The footvalves at the luboilsuction is a checkvalve, the symbol is round, a 3way cock is square. Se drawing below.

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #353 on: 30 May , 2012, 23:44 »
Lub oil puryfier pumps.
As far as I remember the suction- (dirty oil) and deliverypumps( clean oil) were intergrated in the puryfier as was the case of the heater. Unfortunately I don`t have a picture of the purifier but I`ll look for it and revert.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #354 on: 30 May , 2012, 23:44 »
Luboil checkvalves.
The footvalves at the luboilsuction is a checkvalve, the symbol is round, a 3way cock is square. Se drawing below.

The valve icon has three lines on it, so does this mean OFF/HALF/FULL?



Also below if you look at the lines for the dirty lubricating oil from the manifold (M4) to the tanks there are check valves for each line. But there no check valve for the clean lubricating oil from the manifold (M3) to the tanks. Tore, do you think this is a error or are they not needed?


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #355 on: 30 May , 2012, 23:56 »
Luboil checkvalves.
The footvalves at the luboilsuction is a checkvalve, the symbol is round, a 3way cock is square. Se drawing below.

The valve icon has three lines on it, so does this mean OFF/HALF/FULL?



Also below if you look at the lines for the dirty lubricating oil from the manifold (M4) to the tanks there are check valves for each line. But there no check valve for the clean lubricating oil from the manifold (M3) to the tanks. Tore, do you think this is a error or are they not needed?


Simon
 I have the answer but my internet connection is shutting down I revert this afternoon.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #356 on: 31 May , 2012, 10:17 »
Back on the net again.
The separators dirtyoilpump sucks from the systemoil tanks, hence checkvalves and strainers, and the pressureside (black) of the pump deliver via the heater the dirty oil to the sentrifuge where it`s cleaned and the separator clean oil pump sucks the clean oil from the sentrifuge and delivers back to the systemtank, hence no checkvalves on the deliverypipes from the cleanoilpump. Remember the icon for the pumps has always blackcoloured pressureside. The systemsketch is OK.
Tore
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:20 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #357 on: 31 May , 2012, 10:25 »
The valveicon having 3 crosstripes is a puzzle to me and I guess you shall find very few in the system, I think there are two in the emergency luboilpump suction, (when the fueltransferpump is used as a lubeoilpump)  for port and stb systemluboil tank where you want to be sure there are no contamination of fuel and lubeoil and then I guess one on  the big trimpump in the controlroom. Might be something pops up later.
Tore
« Last Edit: 31 May , 2012, 13:19 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #358 on: 31 May , 2012, 12:37 »
Luboilseparators
I have tried to look for a picture of the lubeoil separator (centrifuge) but sorry I didn`t find any. I think it was the Westfalia make.The only picture I got hold of was the present days Westfalia lubeoilseparators, allthough basically the same system it is not 100% the way it looked. Migth be somebody have a picture?
Tore
« Last Edit: 31 May , 2012, 12:44 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #359 on: 31 May , 2012, 13:35 »
Thanks!  :) :)

Tore, do you per-heat the dirty oil to help clean the oil?

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #360 on: 31 May , 2012, 13:55 »
Yes you both heat and add water to "wash" the oil in the separator.
Tore
« Last Edit: 31 May , 2012, 13:58 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #361 on: 31 May , 2012, 14:02 »
Yes you both heat and add water to "wash" the oil.
Tore

Water :o

I imagine fresh water? Could the water be reused for more clearing or was it only used once?

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #362 on: 31 May , 2012, 14:08 »
No if you look at the coolingwatersystem there is a branch off to the separator.Don`t forget it is a centrifuge and it get rid of the water with impuritites.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #363 on: 31 May , 2012, 14:24 »
Have a look at the seacoolingwatersystem below.
Tore
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:36 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #364 on: 31 May , 2012, 14:48 »


Tore, what this the different between a straight-way valve and a check valve non-adjustable (A)?  (E.g. Between Port LO tank and LO pump)

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #365 on: 31 May , 2012, 23:03 »
I`m not sure if I understand you correct, but a non adjustable checkvalve is a non return "footvalve" built into the pipeline with no possibility to regulate from outside. It is usually fitted at the end of a suctionline to maintain the liquidcolumn to a pump so you don`t have to prime ( get rid of the air) the line every time the pump starts. You can also have an adjustable checkvalve which means you can open it by a hand. A straigth-way valve is to me an ordinary  throughflowvalve. may I ask in which connection have you seen a " straigth-way" valve? perhaps I can give a better explaination.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #366 on: 31 May , 2012, 23:31 »
Simon
I had a look at the english translation of the german iconexplaination. I think I know what you mean. The translator used an unusual word "valve" for the german "hahne" which means cock.
The icon used is a straigth throughflow cock, which means it has a simplifed casing and a removable handle, not wheel (see picture) and the meaning of straigth is that it is either shut or opened by hand, It is used for double sealing of the pipe, the check valve shut by itshelf.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #367 on: 01 Jun , 2012, 01:14 »
Simon
I had a look at the english translation of the german iconexplaination. I think I know what you mean. The translator used an unusual word "valve" for the german "hahne" which means cock.
The icon used is a straigth throughflow cock, which means it has a simplifed casing and a removable handle, not wheel (see picture) and the meaning of straigth is that it is either shut or opened by hand, It is used for double sealing of the pipe, the check valve shut by itshelf.
Tore

Tore, if the handle was removable, would it be keep on the valve, or were they usually keep somewhere other?

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #368 on: 01 Jun , 2012, 10:06 »
On essential cocks seldom used, like luboilsuction shut off you would`t keep it on but store it maybe in brackets on the bulkhead. The reason for that is you would prevent somebody to shut it accidentially. If the cocks were way under the floorplates sometimes you could use a long T piece instead of the handle. I wonder if the stripe drawn out from the icon could symbolize that, nothing mentioned about this on  the plate. Otherwise the handle was pretty much  as seen on the picture below.
Tore
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:37 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #369 on: 01 Jun , 2012, 19:14 »
U-boat Pumping 101 ;D




Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #370 on: 01 Jun , 2012, 19:52 »
U-boat Pumping 102




Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #371 on: 01 Jun , 2012, 20:02 »
Hi Tore

Still working on the other piping, but from below you are see is starting to look good  :)



Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #372 on: 01 Jun , 2012, 23:48 »
Simon
 As always a pleasure to look at your drawings.We should had you around when we were training our crew.  As far as I can see everything seems to be correct I shall have a closer check this week end, looking forward to seeing the rest.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #373 on: 02 Jun , 2012, 08:47 »
Dirty oil handpump system.
I realize you are not finished with the drawing, but to me it seems that the suctionline from starboard systemtank lead to a different 3 waycock than port and you have 3 cocks on top of each other in the system.
I believe it is one suctioncock (A) directly under the pump where both systemtanks suction pipes enters, out from that cock is the common suctionpipe to the handpump.
Out from the handpump is the deliverypipe going to another 3 way cock (B) situated directly underneath a  cock (C) which is not in the system. From cock B the dirty oil can either be directed to a hoseconnection or via a funnel to 2 destinations. Rigth under the funnel is a 3 way cock again (D) which have connections to the dirtyoiltank or the suction of the handpump. This makes it possible either to pump  dirty oil from either of the system tanks to the dirtyoiltank or shut the funnelconnection and open a connection to the handpumpsuctionline so you can empty the dirtyoiltank by the handpump via the hoseconnection. This seems to be a little complicated without a drawing, and it`s of course difficult see everything on an unfinished drawing.
Tore
« Last Edit: 02 Jun , 2012, 09:16 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #374 on: 02 Jun , 2012, 14:12 »
I have tried to fiddle with you nice drawing  in order to have an additional explaination. I`m not sure if it is of any help though.
Tore
« Last Edit: 02 Jun , 2012, 14:20 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #375 on: 02 Jun , 2012, 15:00 »
From the picture below I believe that valve E this right above valve F and the hand pump is port of the these two valves. I am not 100% sure where valve C is  :(

Tore, the small air lines which go to the 3-way valve (with the red handle) do you know which system this is? Is it the Oxygen system, Engine starting air system or the low pressure system?






Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #376 on: 02 Jun , 2012, 15:04 »
I just realise I have one too many valves :o I will delete this now.

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #377 on: 02 Jun , 2012, 15:19 »
Updated drawing - I was just toll off by the U-1308 dock forman for installing incorrect piping into U-1308  ;)

Still looking for a home for valve C :(


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #378 on: 02 Jun , 2012, 15:44 »
I cannnot remember what system the upper cock belongs to, may be if we can see something further up we should be able to figure out. The inlet pipe to the pump is in the bottom. May be you get the idea from the picture below.

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #379 on: 02 Jun , 2012, 15:53 »
OK
I`m hitting the sack if it`s still unclear I`ll make a drawing tomorrow morning.
Tore
« Last Edit: 02 Jun , 2012, 15:58 by tore »

Offline Rokket

  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 2,362
  • Gender: Male
  • Submarine Enthusiast
    • AMP - Accurate Model Parts
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #380 on: 02 Jun , 2012, 18:52 »
I think you guys could build a 1:1 boat with the plans and images and knowledge you have! If only you had 3-5 million dollars in 1940s currency and a shipyard!

There's an Australian Billionaire who has serious plans to build a Titanic II cruise liner (I'm assuming the water-tight dors would go all the way to the deck above, this time!), maybe you could convince him or his mates to finance a VIIC-II.
AMP - Accurate Model Parts - http://amp.rokket.biz

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #381 on: 02 Jun , 2012, 22:39 »
How about buying back the U 995 for 1,- D mark and bring it back to the true original shape.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #382 on: 02 Jun , 2012, 23:11 »
 Dirty luboil handpump
Here is a rough pencilsketch of the arrangement. C is omitted because it doesn`t belongs to the system. As you see cock A is fitted directly under the pump inlet which is 180 degrees to the outlet. It`s an ordinary vane pump having inlet and outlet opposite each other.
Tore
« Last Edit: 02 Jun , 2012, 23:33 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #383 on: 02 Jun , 2012, 23:48 »
Her is how the hand vane- wingpump looked like when new, that explains probably more than words.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #384 on: 03 Jun , 2012, 00:20 »
Final fiddling with your pump picture.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #385 on: 03 Jun , 2012, 03:25 »
And trying to adapt your fine drawing to the above system. Sorry for the bad quality of my scribling.
Tore
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:39 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #386 on: 03 Jun , 2012, 06:29 »
The mysterious cock C.
 I have been pondering upon  this system and my best guess is the seacoolingwater drain and crossover for the main hullvalve for exhaust. You`ll see the system below as well as C cock pipes marked. I believe I can see the drainpipe ending in a funnel down in the bilgearea. We need to check the upper valves not seen on this photo to be sure. I don`t remember the system at all, so your guess is as good as mine and migth be better.
Tore
« Last Edit: 03 Jun , 2012, 06:31 by tore »

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #387 on: 03 Jun , 2012, 08:56 »
Hi Tore
An airvessel ( sometimes called windvessel) is only a " bulb" rigth after a pistonpump. It contains an air cushion which act like a buffer and equalizes the pressure fluctuations coming from a reciprocating machinery like a pistonpump. Nothing much, just a casted "blimp" migth be an airconnection on the top.
I have found the drawing of the cooling water pump for the G.W. diesel engine.


--
Regards
Maciek

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #388 on: 03 Jun , 2012, 08:59 »
Hi Tore
I think I remember you mentioned earlier that you are planning to visit the Laboe U 995 this summer or autumn. I guess you are making a list of what details you shall be studying and I presume you take a camera along. I have never visited her in her present state allthough passing the Denkmal many times by ship. Before you go, may be you`d be interested in the story how she actually ended on concrete supports at Laboe. KNM Kaura  ex U-995 was in active service in the Royal Norwegian Navy from December 1952 till December 1965. The latter part of her lifetime she was a "schoolboat". The first years, when I was on board she was a" frontline boat" and the CO, No 1 and me became very good friends who met after our service onboard occasionally to memorize old days. The CO has now passed away, but he mention a few interesting things on our social meetings.

After his time onboard, he became in the 1960 years  in charge of a newbuilding programme for the Norwegian navys new subs in Germany. During these years he came in contact with a number of german ex Ubootofficers, himshelf beeing a navyofficer with war experience on the allied side, had a few problems in the beginning but in the end he became friends with quite a few german officiers. I think he was even in a party with admiral D

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #389 on: 03 Jun , 2012, 09:12 »
Hi Simon

Luboil checkvalves.
The footvalves at the luboilsuction is a checkvalve, the symbol is round, a 3way cock is square. Se drawing below.

The valve icon has three lines on it, so does this mean OFF/HALF/FULL?


This translation of the OPZ Ventil is not quite correct. In the Technisches Hilfsbuch f

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #390 on: 03 Jun , 2012, 10:49 »
Hi Tore
An airvessel ( sometimes called windvessel) is only a " bulb" rigth after a pistonpump. It contains an air cushion which act like a buffer and equalizes the pressure fluctuations coming from a reciprocating machinery like a pistonpump. Nothing much, just a casted "blimp" migth be an airconnection on the top.
I have found the drawing of the cooling water pump for the G.W. diesel engine.


--
Regards
Maciek
Exellent! Simon the bulb on the top is the airvessel.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #391 on: 03 Jun , 2012, 11:08 »
Hi Simon

Luboil checkvalves.
The footvalves at the luboilsuction is a checkvalve, the symbol is round, a 3way cock is square. Se drawing below.

The valve icon has three lines on it, so does this mean OFF/HALF/FULL?


This translation of the OPZ Ventil is not quite correct. In the Technisches Hilfsbuch f

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #392 on: 03 Jun , 2012, 23:17 »
From the picture below I believe that valve E this right above valve F and the hand pump is port of the these two valves. I am not 100% sure where valve C is  :(

Tore, the small air lines which go to the 3-way valve (with the red handle) do you know which system this is? Is it the Oxygen system, Engine starting air system or the low pressure system?






Simon
I now realized I overlooked you question of the red handle, but I guess I answered same without refering to your question by my picture posted later. It is the pneumatic system for the main engine clutch.
Tore

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #393 on: 04 Jun , 2012, 00:09 »
Hi

Plate 14:  (Left) Engine lubricating oil system, (Right) lubricating oil storage, sump and purifying system, for Krupp engines

Q: Do you remember where the two pumps for cleaning are?
Lub oil puryfier pumps.
As far as I remember the suction- (dirty oil) and deliverypumps( clean oil) were intergrated in the puryfier as was the case of the heater. Unfortunately I don`t have a picture of the purifier but I`ll look for it and revert.


Tore, you remember well:


[quote author=U Bootskunde f

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #394 on: 04 Jun , 2012, 00:24 »
Some more informations are provided here:
Quote from: Design Study of Former German Submarine  - Type IXC
[...]Filters, strainers, oil purifiers and oil coolers are similar to available U.S. commercial equipment. [...] The major differences from U.S. submarine practice are in the installation on the German vessels of a contaminated oil system, and the use of portable hose and interchangeable pipe connections to permit use of the hand and power driven detached pumps with fuel oil or other systems.
[...]
The forced lubrication system on the IX-C submarine is tied in with an oil purifying arrangement in a manner similar to U.S. submarine practice.  However, within both the lubrication and purifying systems, i.e: in tank design and in piping layouts, several basic and numerous minor differences exist.
[...]
The oil purifying system on the IX-C is of much lower capacity and is arranged to function in a somewhat different manner from the system as set up on U.S. submarines.  A single, standard DeLaval purifier, rated at 79.2 gals./hour is installed, while on U.S. vessels two 250-gals./hour purifiers are used.  The piping, pumps and heaters on the IX-C purifier system form an independent system and the units are selected with only that one service in mind, whereas the purifier pump and heater on U.S. vessels are of greater capacity than required for purification alone and are piped so as to be used also for transferring and heating oil from storage of sump tanks.  This dual service requires the installation of a "flow" regulating valve that isn't required with the IX-C arrangement.  A further difference exists in that the German purifier functions on a separator principle requiring a separate salt water feed line and salt water heater that need be kept in constant use and adjustment.  The Sharples purifier on U.S. vessels is presently used only as a clarifier and does not require a separate salt water feed line.  The German purifying arrangement with temperature and flow regulation on both the lub oil and salt water lines requires more attention during operation then on the U.S. setup with only temperature regulation on the lub oil line.
(http://uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXC.htm)


--
Regards
Maciek

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #395 on: 04 Jun , 2012, 00:49 »
I have tried to look for a picture of the lubeoil separator (centrifuge) but sorry I didn`t find any. I think it was the Westfalia make.The only picture I got hold of was the present days Westfalia lubeoilseparators, allthough basically the same system it is not 100% the way it looked. Migth be somebody have a picture?
Quote from: British Report on U-570 - HMS Graph
Lubricating Oil Separator
Number:   149  Type 2 LHD 2/20
Capacity:   300 litres lub. oil/hour at 1 atm. at a speed of 1350/1,750 r.p.m. (66 galls./hr. at 15 lb./sq. in.).
Makers:   Ramesohl and Schmidt, Westfalia, Oelde.
Motor Makers:    Werdohler Pumpenfabrik, Werdohl, I/W Paul Hillebrand G.M.B
(http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570BritishReport.htm)


I have no exact picture or photo, but I imagine, the purifer can look like in this US patent issued for Ramesohl and Schmidt A.G. in 1929.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/1734533.pdf


And to compare - the lubricating oil system on the US submarines:
http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/diesel/chap7.htm#7B


--
Regards
Maciek

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #396 on: 04 Jun , 2012, 11:12 »
Maciek
Interesting text and true the VIICs lubeoilseparator was a purifier and not clarifier which means to Simons astonishment that it was hooked up to the sea coolingwatersystem for washing the oil. I see in the paper that the make of the sentrifuge was DeLaval, I guess you probably had different makes. As far as I remember the main difference in look between DeLaval and Westfalia was the bowl. DeLaval have a domeshaped bowl whereas Westfalia was more pyramideshaped, I think Simon need primarely the shape and pipeconnection as everything else is intergrated inside the separator. I guess I would go for the Westfalia.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #397 on: 04 Jun , 2012, 11:37 »
Lubeoil centrifuge.
A typical marine luboil centrifuge looks like on the posted picture, but again it is not excactly the one on a VIIC.
Tore
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:40 by tore »

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #398 on: 04 Jun , 2012, 14:10 »
Tore
A typical marine luboil centrifuge looks like on the posted picture, but again it is not excactly the one on a VIIC.


Nice picture. I imagine that purifier on the type VIIC would like similar, except the driving motor would be mounted above the drum, with its shaft vertical, directly coupled with the rotating drum (and dirty and clean lubricating oil pumps).
I have noticed, that almost all the machines (main drain pump, trim pump in the control room, auxilary cooling water pump and auxilary lubricating oil pump in the diesel engine room, cooling water pump in the E-motor room) on the U-995 have such construction - vertical shaft driven by the electric motor mounted above. I think, that purpose was to better protection from water (besides the splash-proof or even water-proof cover).


--
Regards
Maciek

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #399 on: 04 Jun , 2012, 14:25 »
Maciek that could very well be so, the problem would be you have lift the bowel up for cleaning and the water inlet would be on the top of the bowel see picture of the Westfalia purifier below.
Tore
« Last Edit: 21 Mar , 2013, 02:40 by tore »