Author Topic: Type VIIC/41 Drawings (Read 13654 times)

NZSnowman · « **on:** 31 Oct , 2010, 22:35 »

I have started this post as I wanted one central post that people can come to and found an drawing that may aid with there modelling. I often update my drawing, to correct errors that I found or after I getting additional information. Any new drawings or updates will be posted in the very first post (this one)

Happy viewing, Simon.

My research document http://www.mediafire.com/?zai7dk61rb4acg0

Casting and Pressure Hull

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1. Stern section, (top) casting only (bottom) with equipment; 2. Bow section with casting and equipment; 3. Internal framing of the Wintergarten (Turm 5); 4. Pressure hull with piping; 5. Vent valve for Saddle Tank; Hull opening (left), Inner hatch cover (middle) & Outer hatch cover (right); 6. Access Hatch.

Equipment

Sensors

1. Cross-section of a GHG hydrophone; 2. A late war Schorchel head, with and without Tarnmatte.

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Fig. 1. FuMO-61 Hohentwiel U radar. B without without the netting.

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Fig. 2. FuMB-9 Wanze and FuMB-35 Athos.

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Fig. 3. Direction Finder Antenna Loop.

* = Newest updates.

Pepper-mint · « **Reply #1 on:** 01 Nov , 2010, 02:52 »

Thanks Simon !!! You are a Gentleman...

NZSnowman · « **Reply #2 on:** 01 Nov , 2010, 21:31 »

Updated.

Greif · « **Reply #3 on:** 02 Nov , 2010, 12:01 »

Thank you Simon! These will come in very handy when the time comes for the next uboot build.

Ernest

NZSnowman · « **Reply #4 on:** 04 Nov , 2010, 22:40 »

Update

Added a corrected Search Periscope drawing to the Equipment selection.

► Corrected periscope length.
► Corrected periscope head measurements now, base on true measurements.
► Add a completely new Control Room periscope. My previous drawing was base on U-995 periscope, I am now convinced the periscope in U-995 is not its original.

Rokket · « **Reply #5 on:** 06 Nov , 2010, 18:56 »

Highly likely you are right about non orig scope, 995 was in another navy and then not restored very well.

NZSnowman · « **Reply #6 on:** 06 Nov , 2010, 20:59 »

Quote from: rokket on 06 Nov , 2010, 18:56

Highly likely you are right about non orig scope, 995 was in another navy and then not restored very well.

I found some pictures of the original periscope in U 995: Das Boot von Laboe by Eckard Wetzel and they are not the same.

NZSnowman · « **Reply #7 on:** 08 Nov , 2010, 22:20 »

Updated Mid section of pressure hull and piping drawing.

► Added the Main Air Inlet Trunk line.
► Added the Air Inlet Trunk lines.

NZSnowman · « **Reply #8 on:** 12 Nov , 2010, 19:40 »

Update to Access Hatch and Main Air Inlet Trunk line drawing.

► Original Access Hatch drawing was base mostly from a few pictures from U-995 and drawings of the United States Navy Gato hatch. New drawing now base on a German Access Hatch Plan

► I was able to used several genuine German Access Hatch measurements to correct my drawing, however, is highlighted that the Main Air Inlet Trunk line was misalign

new drawing displays correct alignment

NZSnowman · « **Reply #9 on:** 21 Nov , 2010, 16:08 »

Make many small changes and added a link to my research document.

► I found some genuine German bridge measurements so was able to put the Sky periscope in it correct position. My earlier estimation was out by 20 mm or 0.47 mm at 1:43 scale

► I added the complete piping system for the late war schnorchel.
► I have corrected the neck of schnorchel and layout of the Tarnmatte for the last war schnorchel.
► I have increase the accurately of the opening in the pressure hull for the drive shaft for the radar aerial, as I was able to found one genuine measurement for it

Pat · « **Reply #10 on:** 21 Nov , 2010, 21:31 »

Great idea Simon! Thanks very much.

Pat · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Nov , 2010, 15:23 »

Wink, I think you're correct about U-995 and it not being restored very well from the time in the Finnish Navy, which might have occassioned many changes, particularly in instrumentation.

From what I've read, the German government has not helped with the restoration but has left it up to private groups. If anything, the German government has hindered the project and would prefer that the U-boat be gone and forgotten, along with anything that might remind them of that particular part of history.

NZSnowman · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Nov , 2010, 15:40 »

Pat, I was thinking this morning about starting a list of changes/absent/etc

NZSnowman · « **Reply #13 on:** 03 Dec , 2010, 13:44 »

Quote from: NZSnowman on 04 Nov , 2010, 22:40

► Add a completely new Control Room periscope. My previous drawing was base on U-995 periscope, I am now convinced the periscope in U-995 is not its original.

Quote from: rokket on 06 Nov , 2010, 18:56

Highly likely you are right about non orig scope, 995 was in another navy and then not restored very well.

I just workout that the periscope of U-995 is a Type XXIII periscope

Pat · « **Reply #14 on:** 03 Dec , 2010, 22:05 »

Simon, it's easy to see how the list can grow.

The Finns had the boat for many years and during that time, there were many advances in technology and new ideas to make wartime expediencies safer as well as old parts wearing out. So I'd expect many, many changes.

I've started a list of the changes I've made or planned to the Revell kit for my U-711 build. So far I'm up to 150 changes.

And even that is combining a lot of them together. For instance, I just put down "opening deck hatches" as one change, but in actual fact, there are about a dozen or more deck hatches that I'm putting hinges on to be able to open up and see the interior. So is that one change or 15 changes?

And since each hatch is scratch built, and each hinge, and the framework under the hatch, and the deck planking on top of the hatch, are those all changes too or just included in a catch phrase of "opening deck hatches"?

Rokket · « **Reply #15 on:** 04 Dec , 2010, 01:04 »

It's complicated and all that, but bottom line, too bad U 995 can't be made as accurate as say the (presumably) U 505, and the Gatos Silversides, Cobia, and Pampanito. Cobia has working radio, and could have working radar except they share the same frequency with the local airport. They start one of the diesels once in awhile, too.

That list would be interesting!

NZSnowman · « **Reply #16 on:** 04 Dec , 2010, 01:22 »

Quote from: rokket on 04 Dec , 2010, 01:04

It's complicated and all that, but bottom line, too bad U 995 can't be made as accurate as say the (presumably) U 505, and the Gatos Silversides, Cobia, and Pampanito. Cobia has working radio, and could have working radar except they share the same frequency with the local airport. They start one of the diesels once in awhile, too.

That list would be interesting!

What could be funny seeing a plane trying to land on a deck of a Gato if they turn on radar

I have started a list of changes for U-995. I will start a topic soon so we can check the list and add to it.

Simon

Rokket · « **Reply #17 on:** 04 Dec , 2010, 01:23 »

Excellent work! (yes that would be funny!)

NZSnowman · « **Reply #18 on:** 03 Jan , 2011, 13:18 »

It has been a while since I posted any new drawing of U-1308. For the last six weeks or so I haven

Rokket · « **Reply #19 on:** 07 Jan , 2011, 16:48 »

Have you picked out a shipyard to build the full scale boat yet? and budget?

NZSnowman · « **Reply #20 on:** 07 Jan , 2011, 18:18 »

Quote from: rokket on 07 Jan , 2011, 16:48

Have you picked out a shipyard to build the full scale boat yet? and budget?

I wonder how much it would cost to build a full scale Type VIIC

It must be well over 5 million dollers US, just for the casting, pressure hull and framing alone $:-\$

Pat · « **Reply #21 on:** 09 Jan , 2011, 07:08 »

LOL, Wink, that's a good one.

Perhaps not full scale, but maybe Simon could build a 1:10 scale, big enough for one or two crew at a reasonable cost.

Rokket · « **Reply #22 on:** 10 Jan , 2011, 06:09 »

hmmm, 1:10...hmmm!

In 1938-ish, a Gato cost 7 million US$, by the mid/end 11 mill. I can only guess that in 1938+ a VII was about 2.5 to 3. Today? Wel, actually, now that I think about it, how much did Das Boot spend? True, those sets didn't submerge, but it would be at least a few times more than what they spent.

NZSnowman · « **Reply #23 on:** 10 Jan , 2011, 08:07 »

I can not believe 7 to 11 million dollars for a Gato

That seem so much money in 1940

Pat · « **Reply #24 on:** 13 Jan , 2011, 06:10 »

Probably a cost/unit kill ratio wouldn't be enough.

It seemed that the Germans calculated it was worth it to build a U-boat even if it only got a couple of merchants before it too was sunk, usually with a loss of all hands. The number of crew of two merchants might be about equal to the crew of one U-boat.

But other factors are that it takes a lot longer to train a U-boat crew than a merchant ship crew.

It takes longer to build a U-boat than a merchant ship. (Liberty ships and Parks ships were coming off at about one a day)

A merchant ship might carry a couple squadrons of tanks, or a wing of fighter planes that if landed in England, could have created their own kill/unit ratio.

A merchant ship might carry fuel or food or building supplies that would keep a factory or combat unit going.

Merchant ships had to be protected, which meant more destroyers and corvettes to be built, armed and crewed, thus tying up more men and raw materials that could be used in other places.

The U-boat threat made the ships travel in convoys, not as efficient as sending ships across as soon as fully loaded, and creating bottlenecks in ports.

It becomes quite a complex calculation.

Rokket · « **Reply #25 on:** 15 Jan , 2011, 00:45 »

Yes, very complex! Yes, when the average US worker made about $1,200 a year, and wealthier ones $2,500, then $7,000,000 equals about 5,000 years of a salary! (yes, inflation, etc., so 5800 to 4,000 equiv still means a LOT of moolah!). Of course, look at a modern nuke, a Brit or Yank sub: 2 billion!

Pat · « **Reply #26 on:** 16 Jan , 2011, 08:23 »

At Christmas, I asked my father-in-law how he was paid during the war. (He was a Spitfire mechanic) and he said $2.50 a day.

I remember speaking to a DEMS gunner once (DEMS were the naval guys attached to man the cannons on merchant ships in convoy) and he'd told me $3.00 a day. And that was to risk his life.

My father, who was a Lancaster/Halifax pilot and in charge of a wing of several other aircraft, I think once told me that he was paid about $5 a day. And that was to go into enemy territory and linger (he was Pathfinder squadron) over the target for an hour during the raid, getting shot at all the time.

And these guys probably all were on duty 7 days a week, no weekends off like we have now.

So yes, it makes me wonder at the cost of a submarine, aircraft or tank.

Rokket · « **Reply #27 on:** 19 Jan , 2011, 23:29 »

NZSnowman · « **Reply #28 on:** 20 Jan , 2011, 12:02 »

It just happens I was reading "The Royal Oak Disaster" by G Snyder last night and on page 55, he said a Type VIIB is worth "four million marks' worth of steel..."

Rokket · « **Reply #29 on:** 26 Jan , 2011, 01:03 »

Metaphorical or literal? In sense of steel - is that the steel price alone, or a way to say finished boat? Interesting!

NZSnowman · « **Reply #30 on:** 26 Jan , 2011, 11:25 »

He does not say which, but I think he talking about the whole boat.