Glenn Cauley's build of U-505 (Turm IV refit)

[GlennCauley]

In advance of my U-505 build actually starting... I have started to lay out the groundwork for my build WEBSITE:

www.travel-net.com/~gcauley/Uboats
www.travel-net.com/~gcauley/U505


It is my intention to build U-505 as it was during its 5X refit near the end of June 1943.  This was in the later part of the Turm IV installation when there was a new rear flakvierling installed (which I think looks simply awesome), the 105mm deck gun was still in place (before its removal), the Balcongerat was not yet installed, etc.   At that time, the boat was commanded by Kptlt. Peter Zschech.



There is not a lot of content on my website just yet, mostly just an intro and a rudimentary "Planning & Preparation" page, but as I actually start building the model I will be adding details along the way.

I MUST thank everyone here on AMP in advance, as certainly you all contribute in many many ways.   Please know that all your tireless help is VERY much appreciated.  It sure makes this hobby much more enjoyable and fulfilling.   (Cue the violins... )

[cola]

Looking forward to it Glenn...I learned quite a bit from your U-625 build.

[falo]

Hi Glenn,


thanks for this "must have thread".


Regards
falo

[Capt Kremin]

Hi Glenn,
 
Further to part# 167/168, been messing around with some pictures whilst she was at Bermuda and came up with attached photo, resolution poor, but looking at that hoop, it extends higher than I realised, it looks like when raised it was designed for a crewman to stand in it.
Would haved pm'ed this but I have no idea how to attach a photo to a pm.
 
Regards
Jon

[GlennCauley]

We got great news recently about the status of some marvelous details sets... they are ready and shipping soon!

I updated the "Planning & Preparation" page of my website with pics of the new PE set with full decking from RC Subs.

[Capt Kremin]

Hi Glenn et al
 
I think this is going to be a great year for type IX accessories.
 
Regards Jon

[Greif]

Hi Glenn, I am really looking forward to following your Type IXc build.  The craftsmanship of your two Type VIIc uboats are both exquisite; I hope to be able to reach that level someday.  The descriptions of the techniques you used while building those two were very helpful to me personally when I built both U228 and U255.  Again, I am very much looking forward to following your build.

Sincerely,
Ernest   

[dbauer]

   Me too!
Regards,
Dan

[GlennCauley]

Thank you, fellows.   

I have a lot of fun making those build sites, and put in as much detail as I can without going "overboard"  (hehehe bad pun). 
And I LOVE it when others do the same, as it takes a lot of the guesswork out of things.
There are so many awesome builders & techniques that I have no clue about, I need hand-holding and 1...2...3... explanations to learn it.        So with my sites, I just try to "pay it forward."

[GlennCauley]

Comparison of Type IXC (foreground) versus Type VIIC (completed model, background).
Model lengths are 42" (IXC)  versus 36" (VIIC)   or very roughly in feet for the real boats:      252' (IXC)  vs.  216' (VIIC)   

The big difference you'll notice is in the width on the top deck of the IXC -- much more surface area to walk on.

[GlennCauley]

I mocked up the main hull to see how everything goes together, and try to figure out how & what I am going to do with the interior.   

I have a very rough plan in mind on how the basic structures of the interior look (saddletanks, pressure hull) but now I have to conceptualize how I'll do it in plastic.

Interesting about the railing holes that need to be drilled out in the main hull pieces.   There are numerous holes, all labelled with 1 or 3 (or 1/3 both).    For THIS kit you have to drill out only the holes with "1"  so I'm guessing the reason for having additional holes (marked "3") is for a different future release of the hull.   Hmmmmmmm... 

[GlennCauley]

Just got my nearly-new copy of Hunt and Kill yesterday.   
I'm already starting to read it. 

It's an interesting read so far... particularly the circumstances surrounding the suicide of Kptlt. Peter Zschech.   

[thomcmdchief]

Glenn,
What thickness is the decking you ordered from Oto?  I underdstand the thickness on the R/C decks is .4MM however the static decks are .2mm. Do you have a plan for a substructure? I'm running some ideas of using the kit decking as a frame. 

Thom

[GlennCauley]

I've been gathering a few detail parts for the build:

• Eduard 53106 -- PE set (1 of 3)
• Flakvierling (quad 20mm AA gun) -- from Revell S-100 kit
• Griffon GMA-N005 detail set -- details for twin 20mm guns
• Griffon BPN72002 detail set -- details for Flakvierling
• Schatton Modellbau 72168 -- type IX periscopes
• Schatton Modellbau 72169 -- type IX  gun barrels for AA
• Tehnoart U9 Fittings Set 1 -- brass details for type IX  (http://www.tehnoart.eu/u9-fittings-set-1.html)

On order:

• RC Subz PE set -- full PE set including full decking

[GlennCauley]

Glenn, what thickness is the decking you ordered from Oto?  I understand the thickness on the R/C decks is .4MM however the static decks are .2mm. Do you have a plan for a substructure? I'm running some ideas of using the kit decking as a frame.

I ordered the 0.2mm set. 
You must be a mind reader!  LOL
Oto and I exchanged a few ideas about these things.    I will certainly be adding some support strips to raise the PE deck up in the hull "shelves" so it sits at the proper height.   Also, I will likely add some strip plastic beneath the decking to add some rigidity and prevent possible sagging due to the thinness.

[Capt Kremin]

Hi Glen,
 
Don't know if you have seen these, they are the deck of the U 534 without the wooden planking I would imagine that a IXc would have a very similar substructure.
 
Regards
Jon

[GlennCauley]

Sweet!     Thanks, Jon.   

[thomcmdchief]

Outstanding pics Jon, thanks so much!

[Capt Kremin]

Hi Glen & thomcmdchief,
 
Anyone for a naked tower!
 
Regards
Jon

[Greif]

Those are some outstanding pictures, thank you Jon!
Ernest

[SG]

I agree, amazing shots! thanks soo much!

[dbauer]

  Thanks Jon!
Just what is needed to help anyone with a scratch built pressure hull.
I am waiting now for the three Eduard PE sets to get started.  I have an older PE deck from Oto I am going to use for this first build.
Regards,
Dan

[thomcmdchief]

Great look at the structure beneath the structure......thanks Jon

[Capt Kremin]

Hi all,
 
fingers crossed, may have even more at the end of the month shh!
 
Regards
Jon

[Capt Kremin]

Hi all,
 
if you liked those you'll love these.
 
Regards Jon

[GlennCauley]

I have started building my "faux" inner pressure hull and getting detailed measurements for making the tops of the internal saddletanks.  The TOP of the internal saddletanks form the BOTTOM of the main flooding channel. 

Go to my U-505 build site, and click on "Pressure Hull" to see more information.
Pictures and more details to follow.

(For what it's worth, I used a similar approach to what I did with U-673 inner pressure hull.)

[dbauer]

  Hi Glenn!
Great start on the pressure hull build! Looking foward to each  new post to see haw to do this on a Type IX! You have some of the same ideas I had trying to figure this all out!!!    So I will follow your lead when I get ready for the pressure hull on my U-505, and later maybe a U-805!
Thanks Again!
Dan

[thomcmdchief]

Nice job Glenn.   Have you received your PE deck set from Oto yet?

Thom

[GlennCauley]

Hi y'all   

I made some good headway on my U-505 build over the weekend, and updated the BUILD SITE.


Here are some pictures that should (hopefully) make things clearer about the internal structure of the Type IXC.





INNER PRESSURE HULL:
The INNER PRESSURE HULL is the round section in the middle of the bulkhead.
The diameter of the pressure hull changes throughout the boat.

In the kit, the diameters of the pressure hull are the following (at the indicated bulkheads):

• Bulkhead A:   ø50mm  (2")
• Bulkhead B:   ø57mm  (2-1/4")
• Bulkhead C:   ø57mm  (2-1/4")

In the kit, the top (curve) of the pressure hull is ~12mm from the top of each bulkhead.


SADDLETANKS (internal):
The SADDLETANKS are the shaded sections on either side of the inner pressure hull; contained within the hull.
Right above the saddletank is the main flooding channel; the TOP of the saddletank forms the BOTTOM of the main flooding channel.

[dbauer]

  Hi Glenn!
Great stuff on the Pressure Hull!
Question: How are you going to do the saddle tanks?
Thanks Again!
Dan

[GlennCauley]

Question: How are you going to do the saddle tanks?

The saddletanks tops bridge the gap between the outer hull and the curve of the pressure hull. 
After I drill out the flooding channel holes, there will be a bottom "lip" probably 0.040-0.060" thick... that is what I will glue the edge of the saddletank top to.   So the top of the plastic will be in line with the bottom edge of the flooding channel.

I'll see if I can make a picture to better illustrate this.   

[GlennCauley]

I will be posting instructions for making the various pressure hull sections.

Materials needed:

• 0.080" sheet styrene (for rib)
• 5/16" plastic rod - hollow  (#230) (for spine)
• 0.060 x 0.120" plastic strip  (for shelf)
• 0.010" sheet styrene (for skin)

Tools needed:

• circle cutter
• plastic scriber
• 5/16" drill bit
• small drill bit (pilot)
• sprue cutters
• fine-graduated rulers (0.5mm inc.)
• fine-tip marker

Here are instructions for making the following pressure hull section:

• making Stern section
• making A-B section

Hope this helps!

[dbauer]

  Sounds good Glenn!
When you are able, please post that on your U-505 site. I am not able to download your last part.
thanks,
Dan

[GlennCauley]

When you are able, please post that on your U-505 site. I am not able to download your last part.

Done... the instructions for 2 pressure hull sections are now on my U-505 build site, in the "Pressure Hull" section under "Plans."
However, they are incomplete; I still have to complete those sections by adding the thin styrene 'skin' to them.

[GlennCauley]

Here is the tool I use for cutting circles in sheet styrene.
It's fairly easy to set and use.

Mind you, the onboard 'scale' is totally useless, and I always set the radius using a good ruler.

[GlennCauley]

Question: How are you going to do the saddle tanks?

The saddletanks tops bridge the gap between the outer hull and the curve of the pressure hull. 
After I drill out the flooding channel holes, there will be a bottom "lip" probably 0.040-0.060" thick... that is what I will glue the edge of the saddletank top to.   So the top of the plastic will be in line with the bottom edge of the flooding channel.

I'll see if I can make a picture to better illustrate this.   

Here is a picture that should clarify what I intend to do.

[dbauer]

  Thanks Glenn!
I have to admit I was scratching my head at first. Now It makes sense!
Thanks,
Dan

[GlennCauley]

That's the easy part.   LOL

Then I have to add all the thin vertical baffle ribs in the flood channel (atop the saddletanks).   
The main flooding channel is made up of a whole bunch of 1" long slots, but each of those big slots is divided into thirds by the internal baffle ribs.  All those have to be added. 

Gonna be lots 'o sheet styrene used up on this puppy.   

[SmallRivets]

Glenn,

all this internal structure "ribs" can be photo-etched in fact. are you going to make set of drawings for it?

Boris

[GlennCauley]

Hi Boris,

No, I just make up adhoc drawings for things as I build.   Even the 'drawings' I am currently making and posting leave a lot to the imagination, and there will still be a lot of adjustments and filling/sanding to be done to make them fit on the actual model.           I don't have the time and/or resources to make accurate drawings of the internal ribbing... considering too that I am not making a cutaway model, I just want things to look as good as they can given the limited amount they can be viewed.

[johnd]

Glen, after adjusting the plans in Vom Original to 1/72, I will be using a segment of 2" Schedule 40 PVC pipe for the top of the pressure hull where it is a uniform diameter. The outside diameter of the pipe is 2-5/16 inches approx., which is very close to the drawings. Two foot lengths can be bought at Home Depot for around $5. Fewer bulkheads would be required and the pressure hull would be more stable to work on. On the other hand, weight may be an issue but the segment would only have to be a couple of inches wide. Just an idea, what do you think?
 
John Doherty

[GlennCauley]

Hi John,

Yupper!   Ideally it would be great to find lengths of commercially-available plastic piping that can be pieced together... instead of making a skeletal structure with skin.  You're absolutely right... having pieces of solid tubing would be MUCH more solid to work with.

When I made the pressure hull for U-673, I too based a lot of my drawings on reference material books.  However, here's the big catch:  The inside of a plastic hull is nowhere near the proper dimensions compared to original.  The kit hull is made for reasonable accurate exterior finish & dimensions... they could care less about how the inside looks.     By the end with U-673 I had to make a lot of adjustments to the 'ribs' to make the pressure hull fit within the kit hull.     You may experience the same issues using different approaches.

In the end, it all comes down to making the best structures in the easiest possible manner with readily-available materials, so that others may follow and improve upon it.    I will be very happy if someone comes up with easier ways to do this stuff!   LOL

I settled on the 2¼" OD acrylic pipe between bulkheads B & C because it fits *exactly* inside the kit hull and matches the curvatures of the bulkheads... I totally lucked out on that!

[GlennCauley]

Here's where I'm going with these pressure hull "sections" :

[GlennCauley]

Here ya go, folks...

On my U-505 build site, I have posted all the latest files for creating the inner pressure hull & saddletank tops.

This includes:

• my Full Working Plans (18-page CorelDRAW X3)
• step-by-step instructions for making the 4 sections of the pressure hull (PDF)
• printable 1:1 scale SADDLETANK TEMPLATES (PDF) (legal-size)
• reference material - so it all makes sense (PDF)
• reference material (so it all makes sense) (PDF)

Remaining (which will take some time):

• building other internal structures like RIBBING, below-deck stuff, etc.

Enjoy!   

[GlennCauley]

I received Oto's PE deck set recently, and only now am I able to pick my jaw up off the ground.
Whaaaaaaaaaa   

There is a LOT of stuff in this set, and many MANY fine details.
I will likely be using my resistance soldering station to put this deck together, that seems the best idea at this time.
Am working out my notes to complement the instructions.
The biggest thing to work out will be how to raise the (thinner) PE deck up to the level of the stock (thick) plastic deck, and provide some support underneath to prevent sagging.

Ahhhhh, the joys of planning a build!     

[Siara]

You can always glue the beams accross the hull as support for the deck in few places. I did it in Type 7. Still holds well after all that time.

[GlennCauley]

You can always glue the beams accross the hull as support for the deck in few places. I did it in Type 7. Still holds well after all that time.

I just have to do my best to align those beams under the deck so I block as few holes as possible.   

[bill_c]

I received Oto's PE deck set recently, and only now am I able to pick my jaw up off the ground.
Whaaaaaaaaaa   

Agreed.

I will likely be using my resistance soldering station to put this deck together, that seems the best idea at this time.

Hi, Glenn, I looked up resistance soldering stations and they're EXPENSIVE!! Is there a way to rent them or otherwise make use of a great, but limited tool for most modelers?

[bill_c]

A second question: you list the various materials needed for the pressure hull, etc., but how many of each (sheet styrene, for example)? More than one "pack" (as they usually come in packs)? Thanks in advance.

[GlennCauley]

Hi, Glenn, I looked up resistance soldering stations and they're EXPENSIVE!! Is there a way to rent them or otherwise make use of a great, but limited tool for most modelers?

Bill, you're right that the resistance soldering stations are a bit on the expensive side... good tools usually are, unfortunately.   

This tool was made EXACTLY for the kind of work I'll need to do:  quick soldering with very little heat build-up.   

Here is the unit that I purchased from MicroMark on sale for $160:   http://www.micromark.com/microlux-resistance-soldering-unit-with-single-electrode-handpiece,10952.html
Check on eBay for "previously loved" units, and you can probably find them there at a saving.

[GlennCauley]

A second question: you list the various materials needed for the pressure hull, etc., but how many of each (sheet styrene, for example)? More than one "pack" (as they usually come in packs)? Thanks in advance.

Good question   

For the 0.080" sheet styrene, a single small-size sheet (6" x 8" I think?) will be fine.
For the #230 tube, you'll need 1 package (contains about 4-5 tubes).
For the 0.010" sheet styrene, find the largest sheet you can;  I found a very large sheet 11x20"  or so

[bill_c]

I would like to make use of the Corel Draw plans, but don't have Corel Draw (there's a trial version that requires you to give them your email so they can send you emails you don't want). Is there another way to open that file?

[GlennCauley]

www.travel-net.com/~gcauley/U505/files/Type_IXC_plans.zip

I created an 18-page PDF file from CorelDRAW ... but it is 9.5MB big.   But when I ZIPped it, it shrunk down to 218KB.   Gotta love technology sometimes.
Let me know how it works for you.

[bill_c]

I don't have software that can open the CorelDraw file. Do you have it as a PDF?

[NZSnowman]

I don't have software that can open the CorelDraw file. Do you have it as a PDF?

Bill, the zip file has the PDF file for you

[bill_c]

Thanks, Glenn!

[GlennCauley]

Thanks to Dougie for giving me some more information about that I had to do with my build.
Some things I knews, others I didn't. 

For your time frame in July 1943, you should -

- remove the Balcongerät.
- not fit the FuMB Ant 3 Bali 1 antenna (part 169)
- it is okay to fit parts 198. But I would be inclined not to fit the Samoa dipoles (parts 199) (I don't know when the Samoa diploes were added but if I had to guess I'd say later in 1943)
- not fit the 37mm container (part 180)
- you also need a Vierling rather than the 37mm

[dbauer]

   I will be interested in how you deal with the big hole under the lower hull where the Gerat was.
I am kicking around the idea of building an Early IX with the Trum II.
regards,
Dan

[GlennCauley]

I will be interested in how you deal with the big hole under the lower hull where the Gerat was.

I have an idea in mind that hopefully should not prove to be too difficult to do. 
Of course, I will document it and put it on my build site! 

[dbauer]

   Great Glenn!
I am following your site and the posts here.  Taking notes along the way!
Regards,
Dan

[dbauer]

  Hi Glenn!
All going ok? I haven't seen anything new on your U-505 site.   Just checking if all is going well.
Regards,
Dan

[GlennCauley]

Hi Dan,

All is good!   
I haven't worked on U505 for a short time, as other things have taken priority.

[dbauer]

  Hi Glenn!
That is ok! Just wanted to know if all is well. We all need a break once in awhile.  I have been following your thread of U-505. I have just cut out the Bulkhead forms and am starting to put them  together. So far so good.
Regards,
Dan

[42rocker]

Glenn
First THANKS for all of the sharing of your work that you have done, I think, LOL. It's cost me a lot of money! I have followed your website and several others and have been buying and setting parts aside for several years and I'm thinking that it's time to start building a few sub's. I received the U-505 kit on Monday, 03/31/14. Going to start a help request thread this week so I can collect a few more details about what I'm planning.
Thanks again for sharing your work with us. Here and on your websites. You do a great job of both modeling and sharing, THANKS Again. Looking forward to seeing more of your great work.

Later Tim

[GlennCauley]

Always glad when people appreciate the stuff we post... and glad that other people post so that *I* can follow, too!   LOL

[GlennCauley]

I plan to start up on my U-505 again soon, with a goal in mind of our CapCon 2015 convention.   I have been reading in awe at the builds of others, and my wee lil mind has been making mental notes about things I want to do with my build.  (bwaa haa haaaaaa)

One of the things that I always wanted to improve upon are the rigging turnbuckles.  The turnbuckles that I created for U-625 and U-673 were a 'quick & dirty' solution that did the job, but I was never really happy with them.  I used solid .030"sq strip styrene, and added some thin wire hooks.  Real turnbuckles have hollow frames, and you can see the threads of the end hooks where they go inside the turnbuckle open cavity.

I will attempting to make more realistic turnbuckles using a sandwich of thin strip styrene as shown in the attached drawing.   I will make one of each 0.020x0.030 and 0.030"sq to see which looks better.

[Capt Kremin]

Hi Glenn,


Saw these turnbuckles at SMW last year, didn't take any measurements as I didn't have my type IX then. They looked very good, not sure if I am going this year, will know at the end of next week. Also I have found soon more on Loyalhanna Dockyard website and these on the RB Productions website, nothing to with the metal barrel manufacturers


Regards
Jon

[GlennCauley]

I am considering making a 1-piece item to replace the Balcongerät that I need to remove for my build.  The new piece would fill the big hole, and would have curved hull plating, and a keel.

I am wondering if I were to make this, would anyone be interested in a cast piece?      I don't know how many people would be wanting this, as the Balcongerät was in the later versions of the boat.

[GlennCauley]

I kept to my word, and am creating the piece to replace the Balcongerat on the forward edge of the bottom keel.   During the timeframe I am building U-505 for, it did not yet have the Balcongerat.

I used sheet styrene for the "fill in" piece to cover the hole in the hull, and curved it to match the hull curvature.
Small pieces of square strip styrene are used to create "shelves" to hold up the forward end of the piece, so it is level with the outer hull.

For the replacement keel end, I used four (4) pieces of Evergreen #258 rectangular tube, 2 high/2 wide.  This turns out to be the perfect size to match the keel on the hull !
The shape of the piece is complex as you can see by the other end of the keel.

After cutting the keel end piece and roughly shaping it, I filled it with putty and set it aside to dry well.   Then I will begin the sculpting it into the proper shape; I may have to end up using epoxy putty... we will see.

[GlennCauley]

Attempt #2 at the keel leading edge.   

Attempt #1 turned into a soft, gooey mess due to using a large amount of Tamiya Putty as filler.  BAD idea!   The large amount of solvent-based putty will never harden, and the solvent attacked the plastic.   Attempt #2 uses Milliput silver-grey epoxy putty as a filler... it turned out much nicer!

[GlennCauley]

Question:

On the model, is the main deck supposed to be flush with the top edges of the hull, or do the hull sides stick up a bit above the deck?   If the latter, by how much?
Reason:  I am calculating the support beams I need for my brass deck.


Answered:
Forward treaded bow section:  deck slightly below the hull sides... very minor (but noticable) 0.008" lip
Forward part of main deck - up to raised sides:  deck slightly below the hull sides... very minor 0.008" lip
Main deck - raised hull edges:  at some point the hull sides are raised in a noticeable 'step' where there are torpedo-rolling ridges on the deck; this results in a substantial lip

[Capt Kremin]

Hi Glenn et al,


I thought I'd add this diagram just to make it easier to to understand where the rails run, there are also adapter rails stored that can direct the torpedo trolley to the forward and aft torpedo loading hatches, if you look at the original Revell deck you can see the inner rails.
The rails were also used by the hoist used to lift the torpedo storage tubes to enable the removal of the torpedoes.


Regards
Jon

[GlennCauley]

Hi Glenn et al, I thought I'd add this diagram just to make it easier to to understand where the rails run, there are also adapter rails stored that can direct the torpedo trolley to the forward and aft torpedo loading hatches, if you look at the original Revell deck you can see the inner rails. The rails were also used by the hoist used to lift the torpedo storage tubes to enable the removal of the torpedoes. Regards,
Jon

Ooooohhh... thank you !!!   

[GlennCauley]

I made some good progress on the boat this weekend... and updated my *BUILD SITE* with pictures.

Pressure hull:

• Found a great way to pre-curve the thin styrene "skin"
• Completed all the pressure hull sections
• Cut down the hull bulkheads to match the top of the pressure hull sections

Hull detail (port hull):

• Cut out all flooding holes (except main flooding channel)
• Added thin PE flood hole templates from Eduard #53108 set
• Cut out diesel exhaust port
• Prepping hull for PE details; drilling/cutting various vents, etc.

[GlennCauley]

I did a trial fit of one of the lower flood "chambers" (for lack of a better word).
(Please tell me if you know what this is called.)

I followed the building method from someone on Modelwarships... cutting out the hole and then lining the inside edges with thin strip styrene.  Then I glue the vent plate to this thin styrene "shelf."   The results are pretty good so far!    Time consuming, but ultimately it will look cleaner, I think.

[GlennCauley]

For anyone using the thin PE deck, there will need to be support under it to bring it up to the proper height in the hull.   

Several ideas are floating around, with one being to "skeletonize" the stock plastic deck and then apply the thin PE deck atop it.   That will work, but there will be a LOT of cutting away of the plastic so the holes in the PE are not blocked. 

Just because I am a glutton for punishment, I have started laying out frameworks for hole cutouts below the sections of the thin PE deck.
I started with Deck B.   When I printed it out, and then laid Deck B atop the plan, it actually works... none of the holes are blocked!

PDF:
http://www.travel-net.com/~gcauley/U505/files/Deck_B_holes.pdf

PNG:
http://www.travel-net.com/~gcauley/U505/files/Deck_B_holes.png

CDR (source vector drawing):
http://www.travel-net.com/~gcauley/U505/files/Deck_B_holes.cdr

[GlennCauley]

I have found a company relatively close to me (in eastern Ontario) that will laser cut sheet styrene based on a vector drawing.

I am going to ATTEMPT to create the underdeck support structures this way.
I just have to design the vector drawings, supply the 0.060" styrene sheet, and the cost is fairly reasonable.   

IF this works, it will be great for those using the thin PE deck!
I will see if the company will keep the project files, so that others can get the same thing done.
If it doesn't work, oh well...

More news as it happens, likely in the New Year.

[GlennCauley]

I made the choice to use Eduard's new 10,5cm deck gun (Brassin #672053) instead of the RCSubs deck gun.
The detail on the Eduard gun is incredible!

I am dubious about the size of Eduard gun, though.
The Eduard gun is about 20% larger than the RCSubs gun.  And the circular base plate is larger than the matching location on the Revell kit deck.
Hmmmmmmm.........
See the comparison pics below.



In the Eduard gun, flat PE is used for the gunner brace supports.   It does not look realistic at all.
So I decided to make my own out of 0.019" brass wire and very fine brass tubing (0.9mm OD).
I had to drill out the brass tubing slightly with a #75 drill bit, and then the brass wire fits perfectly.
The hardest part was cutting the brass tubing pieces to size, and then soldering one very small piece at 45° to the other.  I used solder paste and a propane micro hot air blower.
In the detail pics, a dime is used to show the size of the soldered pieces.

[dougie47]

Hi Glenn,

Thanks for the photos.

I've had a look at side views of 105mms and the first plan seems to suggest a full length of 66.9 mm. A second plan suggests a full length of 66.7mm. We could take an average between the two and come up with 66.8mm. Let's call this size A.

The length of the gun base for the 105mm is, according to the first plan 19.4mm, and according to the second plan is 19.0mm. We could take an average between the two and come up with 19.2mm. Let's call this size B.

Can you measure the full length of both size A (full length of entire weapon) and size B (length of gun base) for both the Eduard and RCSubs versions and tell us what they are?

For the shape of the base, there are quite a few differences between Eduard and RCSubs. At both the front and rear of the base, the Eduard looks quite like the 105mm in period photos. At the rear, the RCSubs looks more like an 88mm base than the 105mm (the shape of the base was different between the 88 and 105).

Cheers,

Dougie
 

[GlennCauley]

Hi Dougie,

I took a bunch of measurements of both the Eduard and RCSubs deck guns.

I've had a look at side views of 105mms and the first plan seems to suggest a full length of 66.9 mm. A second plan suggests a full length of 66.7mm. We could take an average between the two and come up with 66.8mm. Let's call this size A.  Can you measure the full length of size A (full length of entire weapon) for both the Eduard and RCSubs versions and tell us what they are?

(A) Full length of gun (from barrel end to back of breech block)
Eduard:  79.55 mm
RCSubs: 66.8 mm

The length of the gun base for the 105mm is, according to the first plan 19.4mm, and according to the second plan is 19.0mm. We could take an average between the two and come up with 19.2mm. Let's call this size B. Can you measure the full length of size B (length of gun base) for both the Eduard and RCSubs versions and tell us what they are?

(B) Length of base (cradle)
Eduard:  22.7 mm
RCSubs: 17.8 mm

For the shape of the base, there are quite a few differences between Eduard and RCSubs. At both the front and rear of the base, the Eduard looks quite like the 105mm in period photos. At the rear, the RCSubs looks more like an 88mm base than the 105mm (the shape of the base was different between the 88 and 105).

Gun cradle shape
Eduard:  rounded front, pointed rear
RCSubs: rounded front, flat rear


Gun cradle width (across flat parts of gun pivots)
Eduard:  10.0 mm
RCSubs:  7.6 mm


Distance from bottom of cradle to middle of gun barrel pivot
Eduard:  15.3 mm
RCSubs: 12.8 mm


Distance between deck and bottom of cradle
Eduard:  3.25 mm  (height of circular pivot base)
RCSubs:  N/A  (the round base plate at bottom of cradle goes onto deck)


Round base below gun cradle - largest outer dia. (where it meets deck)
Eduard:  15.5 mm dia.
RCSubs:  11.9 mm dia.


Circular base plate on Revell kit deck
12.2 mm dia

[dougie47]

Hi Glenn,
 
Thanks for the measurements. Looks like the Eduard version is too big (at least accodring to the main plan). You could get away with it if there were only a few mms but over 12mms of a difference is going to be noticeable. Looks like your initial concerns about the Eduard size are correct. I wonder what they based their sizes from? A different plan perhaps?

Unless someone else can find an alternate plan I'd be inclined to go with the RCSubs version.

Cheers,
 
Dougie

[GlennCauley]

This really sucks, since the detail on the Eduard gun is so much nicer.

But yes, the whole gun seems to be oversize by 20~30% !!!
The thing that really gave it away was the size of the circular base... being so much larger than the base plate on the kit deck.


I have registered a support ticket with Eduard to investigate this, referencing this thread for more information and also sending them some pictures.


I REALLY hope they take this seriously, and not just say we are wrong and ignore it. 



Thank you for your help. 

Glenn

[GlennCauley]

Here is the report I compiled, and will be submitting to Eduard.

I hope that this prompts them to correct the gun, and re-issue it with the proper dimensions.

[GlennCauley]

When I am not indulging in holiday cheer, being lazy, or at the model bench, I am busy at the computer creating complex vector drawings. 
 As previously mentioned, I am installing a detailed PE deck on my boat.  The deck is extraordinarily detailed, and is made of thin 0.008" brass and as such needs support and a way to raise it to the correct height.   (The kit plastic deck is MUCH thicker.)   I calculated that a roughly 0.060" raise should do the trick.   The PE deck instructions call for adding support beams below the PE deck to support it... but there are very few places that I can put support beams below the deck and not have any holes blocked off.     

On another site, I saw a U-505 build where the fellow cut up the kit deck to act as the support below the same PE deck.   Good idea, but a lot of grunt work, and he encountered some problems.    This gave me the initial thought about creating a substructure... but how to cut it out?!?    That's when I happened across a company... not far from me... that can do laser-cutting from vector files.   Hmmmmmmmm, interesting!   
So I have been working on creating 1:1 scale support structures for thePE deck set.    A LOT of measuring, and vector work using CorelDRAW (as I have used for other U-boat projects).   So far I have completed 3 of the 4 substructures, and the last one should only take a few hours to create from scratch.  These vector files will be sent to the laser-cutting company in the New Year along with some sheets of 0.060" sheet styrene.   They said that it SHOULD work out well, but I will be holding my breath and crossing various appendages while they do the work. 

I *REALLY* hope it works!    If it does, I will be sharing the vector files on my U-505 site so others can use it as well.


Happy New Year to everyone and your families!   

[dbauer]

  A lot of work there Glenn!
I would almost go with just supports under the deck on the hull !  I will wait to see how yours look before I say anymore. By the way Happy New Year to you up in Canada!  Remember what they said! " Watch out where the Huskies go, and don't you eat that yellow snow!"
Best Regards,
Dan 

[DerXL]

Very impressive work. Not only the model but also your hard work for the deck.
Looks great so far.

[dbauer]

  Hey Glenn!
What are your thoughts on the deck changes for the early Trum on U-505? Very different from later Trum. Also what are your thoughts on how to pull off the early Trum?  Just two more hurtles to jump my friend!
Regards,
Dan

[dbauer]

  Don't forget you will need the 3.7cm gun on the aft deck as well!
Regards,
Dan

[GlennCauley]

I really have no clue about deck changes between Turms... luckily the boat I am building uses the kit tower configuration with very little changes.   

My own build is at the latter stages of the 5X refit to the Turm IV tower, which is what the kit tower is.  The 3.7cm gun on the aft deck was gone (destroyed before the refit, and the remnants removed during the refit), the large (kit) tower was being newly installed (with the rear Vierling), and the 10.5cm deck gun was still in place.   

If you were looking to pre-date your own boat back to, say, the original Turm 0 or next Turm II, I have no idea how you would do that, nor what the changes to the deck would be.  Best to review Dougie's article on U-505, and ask him about it.

[dbauer]

   hi Glenn!
I thought you were back dating U-505 earlier than that.  I am planning to do U-154. It as the U-boot with the "Spewing Cow" emblem  .  Great pics of it with Watch in Tropical Uniforms and DAK Pith Helmets and some with ladies hats!  Thought it would make a great subject. I will have to alter the Aft deck  and include the 3.7cm in back as well.  Thinking of using a Type VII  early Trum modified for a Type IX.  Give me your thoughts on this.
Regards,
Dan

[GlennCauley]

PE deck by SRS:    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.717967601633644.1073741842.532617290168677&type=1

[dbauer]

  Any thoughts on this Dougie???!!!
Regards,
Dan

[Capt Kremin]

Hi all,


SRS (Small Rivets System) is Boris Nakropin, also skyorange on ebay.de. Also known for the build instructions for the Modelbrass PE set for the type VIIC from a while ago.
The type IXC turm PE set is an upgrade of the original Revell part and not a correction set. That is not to say that the Revell part was wrong, I believe it is correct and thus, so is the SRS PE set.


I have bought from Boris in the past and found that his service is prompt.


Regards
Jon

[Anakin]

Hi.

I have also bought from Boris and i must say only good about him. First class service.

Anakin

[dougie47]

Hi Dan,
Jon is correct in stating it is an upgrade of the Revell part rather than a correction so it follows the Revell pattern.
Plan 4 in the Vom Original IXC book shows a drawing of the tower floor on late IXs. The plan is similar to the Revell/SRS pattern. But in the plan, at the front there is a hatch but the Revell floor has a group of square holes. This also occurs on the starboard side. It is not a major difference but the Revell pattern has been used rather than the plan.
It is possible Revell have access to a period photo (I don't have any showing the tower floor).
Cheers,
Dougie
 

[dbauer]

  Thanks Dougie!
I was thinking along the same lines... That the deck s were different.
Regards,
Dan

[SmallRivets]

Hi guys,


my PE set for Turm Deck IX is straight upgrade with Revell pattern. It designed in mind to bringing realistic "look and feel" with limber holes opened.

I am opened for suggestions for and with pleasure make "correction" fret. Unfortunately, I don't have much  materials for this U-Boot, except VOZM book.

if you can provide me some drawings it would be done.


[size=78%]Boris[/size]

[falo]

Hi Cap, hi Anakin,


I can confirm your statements about SRS alias Boris. Purchased in the last month some pe parts for the typeseven from him. Service and quality was always first class.


Regards
Falo

[GlennCauley]

Finally completed a "hat trick" of Vom Original zum Modell "Uboottyp" books!

typ II
typ VII C
typ IX C

[Capt Kremin]

Hi Glenn,


So what type II are you planning?


Regards
Jon

[GlennCauley]

So what type II are you planning?

I as going to build the Type IIA, using the fantastic AMP update set.

[Capt Kremin]

Hi Glenn,


Good call, any particular boat?


Regards
Jon

[GlennCauley]

Unsure... hadn't really thought about it much. 

[GlennCauley]

As previously mentioned, I am installing a detailed PE deck on my boat.  The deck is extraordinarily detailed, and is made of thin 0.008" brass and as such needs support and a way to raise it to the correct height.   (The kit plastic deck is MUCH thicker.)   I calculated that a roughly 0.060" raise should do the trick.   The PE deck instructions call for adding support beams below the PE deck to support it... but there are very few places that I can put support beams below the deck and not have any holes blocked off.     

On another site, I saw a U-505 build where the fellow cut up the kit deck to act as the support below the same PE deck.   Good idea, but a lot of grunt work, and he encountered some problems.    This gave me the initial thought about creating a substructure... but how to cut it out?!?    That's when I happened across a company... not far from me... that can do laser-cutting from vector files.   Hmmmmmmmm, interesting!   

So I have been working on creating 1:1 scale support structures for the PE deck set.    A LOT of measuring, and vector work using CorelDRAW (as I have used for other U-boat projects).   So far I have completed 3 of the 4 substructures, and the last one should only take a few hours to create from scratch.  These vector files will be sent to the laser-cutting company in the New Year along with some sheets of 0.060" sheet styrene.   They said that it SHOULD work out well, but I will be holding my breath and crossing various appendages while they do the work. 

Well, I have changed my plan of attack for the underdeck support.
Originally I had thought of making a 0.060" thick support and put the PE deck directly atop that.   Well, in designing that support layer, I found that there would be too little support in a lot of the areas.

SO.......... I have totally redesigned the support layers for each deck section.
I have cut out the areas that need to be cut out to represent drainage, but left a lot more material in place for strength.
That layer will be only 0.040" thick.
The trick now is that I will add ribs on that support layer, and then the PE deck will lay atop the ribs.    The ribs can be placed so they are not seen under the PE deck.
This should make everything look like the real structure, with drainage holes arranged accordingly.

There are a few places that I have contacted to have the support layers cut... either by laser or by CNC milling.   
It will be more effort to add the ribs (0.022 x 0.044"), but I think this is a better approach.

[GlennCauley]

Deck C support

[GlennCauley]

Deck D support

[GlennCauley]

Deck E support

[bill_c]

Can anyone tell me what happened to Glenn? I went to his U-673 site to download the information to follow his build, and it's no longer there. His other sites are also down.

[GlennCauley]

Can anyone tell me what happened to Glenn? I went to his U-673 site to download the information to follow his build, and it's no longer there. His other sites are also down.

I am still alive & well, and actively working on U-190 (Type IXC/40).
All of my builds were moved to my new domain:  http://gc-scalemodels.ca/

[GlennCauley]

As of late February 2018, I made the decision to NOT install a full PE deck (from RC Subs) onto my U-505.
Instead, I will install the wooden deck from Nautilus Models (72-508).

The reason?
I installed a full PE deck into my U-190.  (http://gc-scalemodels.ca/U190/index.htm)
Making & installing the PE deck was a HUGE undertaking and it was very difficult. I do not want to do it again for U-505.

(I also reached out to Pontos to ask about the status of their IXC detail set... originally slated for a Sept-2017 release.)

[AndrewTSM]

May I ask what made the PE deck so difficult to install? Seeing as you're a veteran modeller, this gives me anxiety

[GlennCauley]

If you go to my U-190 site (link provided above) and read the "Main Deck" section, it fully explains how I installed the PE deck.


In short, replacing the thick plastic deck with a very thin PE deck is a time-consuming, difficult process... and I really do not want to do it again.

May I ask what made the PE deck so difficult to install? Seeing as you're a veteran modeller, this gives me anxiety

[falo]

Hi Glenn,



last night I looked at your model building report again in peace and quiet and was totally thrilled. I am sure that the Uboat will bring you an award at a model building competition.


Regards
falo

[AndrewTSM]

All the photos are messed up when I open them, and there's not much on your site on your U-505.

[GlennCauley]

All the photos are messed up when I open them, and there's not much on your site on your U-505.

You will have to be more specific than "photos are messed up when I open them."    The photos all appear fine to me, and yours is the first complaint I have heard.

I did not get much done on U-505; I gave up on it and so stopped updating the site.    I did more on U-190, which I completed.

[AndrewTSM]

That's a shame...


This is what I get when I open them; both on my phone and PC.





Will you re-continue on it someday?

[GlennCauley]

I suspect it is your browser and/or phone at issue.
The site is basic HTML with frames, and the pages & images appear perfectly to me using Google Chrome browser on PC.   Pics are all PNG or JPG.
That pic you posted... please supply the exact URL link which produced that.
I do not know if I will resume that build.


Here is a screengrab of the homepage which I see:

[42rocker]

Glenn has done a great job on several fine models.  Thanks for sharing all that you do. 
 
Just went to his site and checked out the U-505 pics and they all looked fine to me and my laptop. 
 
Later Tim