Author Topic: Dioramas and water-making (Read 10723 times)

rabapla · « **on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 02:17 »

hey jan, took a look at Your "Probefahrt"- diorama, Your waterline diorama outlines exactly like mine

(see gallery, we call those mooring- things "Dalbe".)

so please, don't put a gull on it as I did!

another interpretation of the same theme:
http://www.hecker-goros.de/html/1_72.html

maybe better use the black flag than the white ensign................

Mr.Mox · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 02:41 »

Quote from: rabapla on 14 Jan , 2009, 02:17

hey jan, took a look at Your "Probefahrt"- diorama, Your waterline diorama outlines exactly like mine (see gallery, we call those mooring- things "Dalbe".)

Damn!, hate when things like that happens, now i have to rip it apart and redo it

- just kidding, i

rabapla · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 02:46 »

http://www.artitec-deutschland.de/1.80.283.htm

still waiting for their "Hafenschlepper" to finish my VII B- diorama...............

Siara · « **Reply #3 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 02:53 »

Addition of the fishing boat will be superb.
The dioramas you are making guys, look so good i almost want to make one myself.

Keep the good stuff coming!

rabapla · « **Reply #4 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 02:56 »

Siara:

please don't cut off the lower part of Your boat.

Siara · « **Reply #5 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 02:58 »

Quote from: rabapla on 14 Jan , 2009, 02:56

Siara:

please don't cut off the lower part of Your boat.

Id rather cut my balls off. I was thinking of the next build.

rabapla · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 03:07 »

back to dioramas:

know what I'm dreaming of?

combining a 1/72 VII (or 1/144) with a 1/700 or so liberty ship in a bookcase diorama (don't know the right expression):
because only a part of the case is open the view is very much directed; so a certain perspective is possible.........

damn 'there is a real live with job and such!

rabapla · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 03:11 »

"probefahrt"? harbour? fisherboat?

thinking of all those photos, keeping in mind it's a late war boat (no waving fisherman then, more refugees on the baltic sea

):
http://www.artitec-deutschland.de/1.80.355.htm

very nice for the "Industriehafen- Diorama" I think.

Siara · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 03:33 »

If i was building the dockside dio- that would be the stuff i had to put in it:
http://www.artitec-deutschland.de/1.80.134.htm
http://www.artitec-deutschland.de/1.80.369.htm
http://www.artitec-deutschland.de/1.80.303.htm
http://www.artitec-deutschland.de/1.80.136.htm
http://www.artitec-deutschland.de/1.80.297.htm

...and probably the flatbed railcar with torpedos on it. Not to mention Opel Blitz parked on the side of the warehouse. I can almost see it with my imagination running overtime.

rabapla · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 03:45 »

as rui martos said (to Mr. Mox): it distracts the view from a fantastic build.

just drydock and walls: lots of possibilities for figures and stuff and one can show off even the lower part of the boat...............

haven't seen a convincing dockside diorama yet in the net.

flat (calm) water is the most convincing, there are only one or two satisfactory "wave" dioramas around (basic knowledge of hydrodynamics is missing from time to time)

http://www.steelnavy.com/WavePatterns.htm

Mr.Mox · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 03:49 »

Siara, that was pretty much my initial though, problem is the size, the boat measures 51 cm - with space front and aft and some room on the quayside, the size of the diorama would be 65x35 if it wasn

Mr.Mox · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 03:54 »

Rabapla - very geekish link

Siara, take a look at that VII in high see, I dare you

http://modelshipwrights.kitmaker.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=2232

rabapla · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 04:05 »

that one of the convincing wave dio's.

Plexisglas? I used the textured stuff. Problem: if one side is painted the ripple effect is lost.

Siara · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 04:06 »

Quote from: Mr.Mox on 14 Jan , 2009, 03:49

cut out a sheet of plexiglass and let the boat rest in it, and the bottom of the harbourbasin and a thin layer of tinted "water" on top of the plexiglass to give som colours and let the light play on the lower hull.

That way it can be done without cutting the hull, and you will still be able to see the details on the lower hull.

Cheers

That crossed my mind few times. Exactly the same thing. You must be reading my mind.

Mr.Mox · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 04:29 »

Quote from: rabapla on 14 Jan , 2009, 04:05

that one of the convincing wave dio's.

Plexisglas? I used the textured stuff. Problem: if one side is painted the ripple effect is lost.

Transparant paint for windows or the Tamiya line of transparent stuff ?

Quote

That crossed my mind few times. Exactly the same thing. You must be reading my mind.

Call me Kzin telepath

Wonder if a moderator could split this tread so the dioramadiscussion could be seperated to the general modelling forum - not that i mind it being here, just getting a bit confused ...

rabapla · « **Reply #15 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 04:45 »

Quote from: Mr.Mox on 14 Jan , 2009, 04:29

Transparant paint for windows or the Tamiya line of transparent stuff ?

transparent paint should be all right. tried to block the rear side by painting it plain black.
Problem is the ripple effect is generated by a square regular pattern on both sides which are staggered. Before painting one cannot see this even from 2 mm away!
If You paint the backside, just the waffel- pattern (armor term, sorry) stays.

but (semi-) transparent paint should work fine!

Mr.Mox · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 04:53 »

I use acryllic artist gel for water - I tint it with a acryllic green colour, when it dries up it turns transparent with a green hue - dependant on how much paint is added. It can be shaped a bit and would propably work fine on a sheet of 2 mm plexiglass ?

Cheers/jan

rabapla · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 04:59 »

as with Your method You'll build up the waves Yourself, no problem.
I just wanted to point out the problem with ripple- textured plexiglass...........

Mr.Mox · « **Reply #18 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 07:10 »

Quote from: rabapla on 14 Jan , 2009, 04:59

as with Your method You'll build up the waves Yourself, no problem.
I just wanted to point out the problem with ripple- textured plexiglass...........

I think it would work on ripple texture allso if applyed in a thin layer, it would help break up any uniformity and distributed the colors, besides it will seal the edges where the plexiglass meets the boat?

Cheers/Jan

dougie47 · « **Reply #19 on:** 14 Jan , 2009, 15:10 »

Hi guys,

The U 201 diorama by Andrea Miniatures (in 32nd scale) is fantastic. They released a book in different languages (including Spanish and English) showcasing the diorama -

http://www.andrea-miniatures.com/ENG/moreinfo/ap-006.htm

Cheers,

Dougie

Mr.Mox · « **Reply #20 on:** 15 Jan , 2009, 00:39 »

Quote from: Mr.Mox on 14 Jan , 2009, 02:41

Damn!, hate when things like that happens, now i have to rip it apart and redo it

Damn!, again! Might just have to do that, the water is acting up and not doing as its supposed to..... dang!

Cheers/jan

Greif · « **Reply #21 on:** 15 Jan , 2009, 01:31 »

This is a good discussion topic!

I am planning on displaying my next build in a pier/dockside diorama. The model will be the MPM Type IIA, probably U-3 in a pre-war setting.

At this point I am considering my watermaking options, which as I see it are 3:

1) Embed the model in plaster, paint the plaster various hues of green with a little grey/green thrown in, then put in about 1.5-2.0 cm's of acrylic gel for surface texture, sheen and depth.
The advantages, IMHO, are the plaster is easy to paint, no heat or fumes to worry about, and it looks pretty convincing when done right. The main disadvantages are: I have never done it and plaster tends to shrink some if not mixed carefully.

2) Same as above, except very firm styrofoam is used instead of plaster.
Advantages are no shrinking to worry about and styrofoam is easy to work. The disadvantages are: Getting the styrofoam to fit the hull exactly (plaster would probably have to be used to fill any gaps), and I am not sure how well the styrofoam takes paint.

3) Cut the Hull lengthways to make it a waterline model, then use one of several techniques to simulate the water. I think the disadvantages outweigh the advantages with this option.

I plan to do test shots on both options 1 and 2 to see how they turn out.

What do you guys think?

Ernest

rabapla · « **Reply #22 on:** 15 Jan , 2009, 02:06 »

Quote from: Greif on 15 Jan , 2009, 01:31

3) Cut the Hull lengthways to make it a waterline model, then use one of several techniques to simulate the water. I think the disadvantages outweigh the advantages with this option.

what disadvantages?

Greif · « **Reply #23 on:** 15 Jan , 2009, 02:23 »

Quote from: rabapla on 15 Jan , 2009, 02:06

Quote from: Greif on 15 Jan , 2009, 01:31

3) Cut the Hull lengthways to make it a waterline model, then use one of several techniques to simulate the water. I think the disadvantages outweigh the advantages with this option.

what disadvantages?

Hi rabapla, I think cutting the hull lengthwise is a pretty big disadvantage as the model is not designed to have theat done. I can imagine alot of thing that could go wrong when doing that. Also, the interior would have to be structurally reinforced a great to prevent disforming. Of course the advantage would be that the diorama base would not have to be as deep and less materials would be needed to simulate the water.

Ernest

rabapla · « **Reply #24 on:** 15 Jan , 2009, 02:35 »

did it to my first VII: no problems

(o.k., I used the resin yankee models pressure hull as reinforcement)

Mr.Mox · « **Reply #25 on:** 15 Jan , 2009, 03:51 »

Its not that hard, Only one hull side glued on, added some support pieces and made room for the inner hull, which is done seperately so i could paint the detailing in the turret.

Greif · « **Reply #26 on:** 15 Jan , 2009, 07:15 »

Hmm....You guys are right about the cutting not being that hard or tricky. I guess I just would feel pretty bad about cutting such a nice model up! I know that probably does not make much sense because you won't be able to see the lower half of the hull anyway. Guess I am strange that way.

Thank you both for the input; I am now looking much harder at option #3 as a possibility.

Ernest

Mr.Mox · « **Reply #27 on:** 15 Jan , 2009, 07:29 »

Quote from: Greif on 15 Jan , 2009, 07:15

Hmm....You guys are right about the cutting not being that hard or tricky. I guess I just would feel pretty bad about cutting such a nice model up! I know that probably does not make much sense because you won't be able to see the lower half of the hull anyway. Guess I am strange that way.

Thank you both for the input; I am now looking much harder at option #3 as a possibility.

Ernest

Oh, it does hurt a bit, helps when its a cheap kit like the XXIII

- it helps when you plan to submerge it a bit, as it leaves more material and dont have to be so accurate.

rabapla · « **Reply #28 on:** 15 Jan , 2009, 08:49 »

well, the busy part is the upper half of a boat, isn't it?

after having received quite some tower parts from RoG for my conversions and having all those Hecker and Goros sets here........... I even think about doing some conning towers alone (as on Hecker and Goros homepage.

Rokket · « **Reply #29 on:** 16 Jan , 2009, 22:57 »

You could always make a second dio with the lower hull half - a capsized boat!

Mr.Mox · « **Reply #30 on:** 17 Jan , 2009, 02:02 »

Its funny, me and my old dad actually talked about it the other day discussing if I should use the stern or the aft to get the most dramatic impression

Cheers/jan

rabapla · « **Reply #31 on:** 17 Jan , 2009, 08:00 »

just look at my avatar.....................

Mike K · « **Reply #32 on:** 17 Jan , 2009, 14:59 »

Great idea, but it won't work. The tanks would fill through the Flood Ports as she rolled over. She'd head down, before she finished rolling over.
Mike K.

Rokket · « **Reply #33 on:** 17 Jan , 2009, 15:30 »

so no Poseidon Adventure uboat style...damn!

Mr.Mox · « **Reply #34 on:** 19 Jan , 2009, 04:42 »

Quote from: rokket on 17 Jan , 2009, 15:30

so no Poseidon Adventure uboat style...damn!

Arh, whats wrong with a bit of artistic license

I