Author Topic: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details  (Read 655183 times)

0 Members and 42 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1400 on: 29 Mar , 2013, 14:34 »
Simon.
The pipes for the differential oilfilter manometer are placed where they should be. To me they look a bit larger than the impression I had, they do not deliver any oil like the pipe to the servo, just static pressure.  I believe they were small copperpipes.
Tore

In the drawing they are 20 mm - steel, should I change them to 15 mm copper?

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1401 on: 29 Mar , 2013, 14:40 »
Simon.
Your pipes around the torsional vibration damper seems OK to me . The spilloff pipe from the pressure reducing valve has the right dimension and about the same as the manometerpipes should have.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1402 on: 29 Mar , 2013, 15:05 »
Simon.
I just had a look at your manometerpipe for the supercharger manometer and I guess that would be about the right dimension.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1403 on: 29 Mar , 2013, 15:07 »
Tore, do these small pipes like like copper or steel?

Also the nuts are bronze :o


Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1404 on: 29 Mar , 2013, 15:11 »
Simon.
I just had a look at your manometerpipe for the supercharger manometer and I guess that would be about the right dimension.
Tore

Yes, that one is 15 mm. I will change my other pipes.

Tore, do you think all the 15 mm pipe would be copper?

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1405 on: 30 Mar , 2013, 01:01 »
Simon.
If you look at the photos from U-995, the way they are bend and those which are broken or disconnected I would assume they are copperpipes.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1406 on: 30 Mar , 2013, 01:53 »
Simon.
If you look at the photos from U-995, the way they are bend and those which are broken or disconnected I would assume they are copperpipes.
Tore

Thanks Tore. I will update my drawing tomorrow.

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1407 on: 30 Mar , 2013, 02:25 »
Simon.
I guess the nuts and cocks of the 15 mm pipes are all brass. The luboil filter differential manometer has two inlets and cocks for the pipes in and out of the filter. See photo below.

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1408 on: 30 Mar , 2013, 13:02 »
Tore, I was thinking about other smaller lines.

Do you think these small lines on the engine would also be copper?

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1409 on: 30 Mar , 2013, 13:21 »
Simon.
Yes I believe all the 15 mm pipes most probably are copper and the cocks and couplings brass.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1410 on: 30 Mar , 2013, 13:24 »
Simon.
I guess the nuts and cocks of the 15 mm pipes are all brass. The luboil filter differential manometer has two inlets and cocks for the pipes in and out of the filter. See photo below.


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1411 on: 30 Mar , 2013, 15:59 »
Simon.
Excellent!
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1412 on: 31 Mar , 2013, 12:50 »
Updated engine



Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1413 on: 31 Mar , 2013, 13:50 »
Simon.
Looks very good, I have just a few minor remarks. The header collectingpipe is partly of copper, I believe it is steel all the way. The venting pipe from the cooling waterpipe crossing the exhaust manifold flanges seems to be on the large side, I believe the upper branch off are small venting pipes which  normally should not be connected to the cooling watersystem but the drainfunnel. The branchoffs from the lower coolingwater bends are drain.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1414 on: 31 Mar , 2013, 14:17 »
Simon.
Looks very good, I have just a few minor remarks. The header collectingpipe is partly of copper, I believe it is steel all the way. The venting pipe from the cooling waterpipe crossing the exhaust manifold flanges seems to be on the large side, I believe the upper branch off are small venting pipes which  normally should not be connected to the cooling watersystem but the drainfunnel. The branchoffs from the lower coolingwater bends are drain.
Tore

Tore, I will fix the header collecting pipe.

I will reduce the main venting pipe from 30 mm to 20 mm and the branch off from 30 mm to 15 mm.

I do not understand the other thing you are talking about  :( "normally should not be connected to the cooling watersystem but the drainfunnel. The branchoffs from the lower coolingwater bends are drain." Have I connect the pipes incorrectly?

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1415 on: 31 Mar , 2013, 15:20 »
Simon.
Instead of connecting the exhaust manifold cooling bend ventpipe to the manifold coolingwater outlet pipe, I  guess it should end in the drainfunnel. The header cooling waterpipe might be connected to the same place as the ventpipe instead.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1416 on: 31 Mar , 2013, 16:09 »
Simon.
Instead of connecting the exhaust manifold cooling bend ventpipe to the manifold coolingwater outlet pipe, I  guess it should end in the drainfunnel. The header cooling waterpipe might be connected to the same place as the ventpipe instead.
Tore

Sorry Tore, I am totally lost that you mean. I can not workout that pipes you are talking about :(

If you have time tomorrow, could you please draw me one of your drawing, to help me understand, thanks.

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1417 on: 31 Mar , 2013, 17:52 »
Exhuast Outlets update
  • Added better shading.
  • Added casting seams.
  • Added temperature sensors.



Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1418 on: 01 Apr , 2013, 00:43 »
Simon.
It was late yesterday I understand your confusion ;) . Below are pictures which possibly explain the system. The exhaust manifold has two types of cooling water bends crossing the flanges, upper and lower. Upper bends have a small ventingpipe, yellow, may be 20 mm. As all ventingpipes are placed on the highest point in the system and goes to a drainfunnel, you don`t introduce the air into the system again. The lower pipebends have drains on the lowest point, violet, these small pipes may be 30mm, join the header pipe,red, before they merge the main coolingoutlet of the exhaustmanifold and then eventually overboard. I have not been able to trace all details so the correction is based on common engineering.
Tore
« Last Edit: 01 Apr , 2013, 02:16 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1419 on: 01 Apr , 2013, 02:27 »
Exhuast Outlets update
  • Added better shading.
  • Added casting seams.
  • Added temperature sensors.



Simon.
You engine is growing into the real thing with all the details gradually coming up it shall definitely be impressive when all the correct details are in place.
Tore.

TopherVIIC

  • Guest
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1420 on: 01 Apr , 2013, 09:24 »
Simon
Your drawing skill is incredible.... Well done Sir!
Christopher

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1421 on: 01 Apr , 2013, 12:32 »
Simon.
It was late yesterday I understand your confusion ;) . Below are pictures which possibly explain the system. The exhaust manifold has two types of cooling water bends crossing the flanges, upper and lower. Upper bends have a small ventingpipe, yellow, may be 20 mm. As all ventingpipes are placed on the highest point in the system and goes to a drainfunnel, you don`t introduce the air into the system again. The lower pipebends have drains on the lowest point, violet, these small pipes may be 30mm, join the header pipe,red, before they merge the main coolingoutlet of the exhaustmanifold and then eventually overboard. I have not been able to trace all details so the correction is based on common engineering.
Tore

Thanks Tore!

I was looking at the wrong drain funnels and I have been looking at the port side of the plate 14 and I did not realise the inboard part of the exhaust Cooling-water system drawing was the venting side :-[
 
I noted on plate 14, that each cooling water bends crossing the flanges has it own venting pipe. Should I do the same or do you think there were all join together to a common drain valve?
 
I also found a rare photo of the drain line :)

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1422 on: 01 Apr , 2013, 13:00 »

Simon
Your drawing skill is incredible.... Well done Sir!
Christopher

Thanks Christopher.

There now over 55,000 objects in the top view of the engine room.

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1423 on: 01 Apr , 2013, 13:16 »
Simon.
It is difficult to give a 3 dimensional impression on a 2 dimensional sketch. If you look at the yarddrawing side view it seems the ventpipes are merging in a common pipe to the drain, I guess the pipe ends with a common cock in the funnel as all the ventpipes-
Your picture of the ventpipe indicate that this small pipe is a copper pipe.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1424 on: 01 Apr , 2013, 13:31 »
Simon.
Have you counted the 55.000 objects?? :o  I wonder how many the final result shall be at the end, however its not the amount of objects but how they are put together which is important, after all the thing has to work and I am sure it will in the end ;D .
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1425 on: 01 Apr , 2013, 14:06 »
Simon.
Have you counted the 55.000 objects?? :o  I wonder how many the final result shall be at the end, however its not the amount of objects but how they are put together which is important, after all the thing has to work and I am sure it will in the end ;D .
Tore

In the main drawing of U-1308 there a total of 190,000 objects ;D

I been looking at some more photo's that perhaps show that each vent pipe from the upper cooling water bend has it own drain line. Base on the size of the pipe I can see coming out of the 1st photo of the upper cooling water bend and the photo below I can see two pipe of a similar size running to the funnel.

Tore, that do you thing?

« Last Edit: 01 Apr , 2013, 14:08 by NZSnowman »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1426 on: 01 Apr , 2013, 14:54 »
Simon.
The pipe sketch shows two separate vent pipes to the funnel, but has not any exhaust manifold centerflange with cooling waterbend.The shipyard drawing shows a centerflange with vent connection nut and no pipe, but the two aft flanges have ventpipes on the upper cw.bends  merging into a common pipe. To me it seems strange that the center flange bend do not have a ventpipe. If we assume the  center flange coolingwater bend has a separate ventpipe and the two aft bend have vent pipes merging into one you end up with two ventpipes in the funnel. I would not be able to explain why.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1427 on: 01 Apr , 2013, 15:09 »
Simon.
The pipe sketch shows two separate vent pipes to the funnel, but has not any exhaust manifold centerflange with cooling waterbend.The shipyard drawing shows a centerflange with vent connection nut and no pipe, but the two aft flanges have ventpipes on the upper cw.bends  merging into a common pipe. To me it seems strange that the center flange bend do not have a ventpipe. If we assume the  center flange coolingwater bend has a separate ventpipe and the two aft bend have vent pipes merging into one you end up with two ventpipes in the funnel. I would not be able to explain why.
Tore

Tore, could it be that the two aft bend get hotter than the centre flange consequently the two aft flange need to be vented more offend?

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1428 on: 01 Apr , 2013, 23:37 »
Simon.
Coolingwaterflow and venting is a science which sometimes is not easy to understand, the basic is that air pockets obstructs the coolingwaterflow and thus the cooling. Sometimes you can have interference between the pipes when two pipes are merging. I have a possible idea which require a bit further investigation hold on till tomorrow. ;D
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1429 on: 02 Apr , 2013, 09:21 »
Simon.
Coolingwater venting.
The CW systemdrawing shows the two aft exh. flanges having separate drain with cocks to the funnel however it does not show any exh. manifold center flange or cooling water crossing bends which we  see is on the manifold. On the shipyard drawing a vent/drain pipe is going all along the engine but only the aft two flanges ventpipes are connected. The centerbend shows connection for a venting pipe but no pipe. The forward bend ( warm CW water return) shows no venting.
Your photo of the CW ventpipe is presumably from the center CW bend, and pointing downwards. As shown on the photo below the CW warmwater outlet bend forward of the manifold has a connection for ventpipe and might have a ventpipe as well.
We are not able to see any common vent pipe along the engine. On these fact we have to make our guesses.
I assume all the bends have venting, based on your finding of the two ventpipes it could be that the four bend ventings are connected in pairs and end up with two pipes and cocks in the funnel. Sorry this is the only idea I have right now.
Tore
« Last Edit: 02 Apr , 2013, 09:23 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1430 on: 02 Apr , 2013, 13:03 »
the four bend ventings are connected in pairs and end up with two pipes and cocks in the funnel...

That sound very German, have backup ;) I will update my drawing this afternoon. Thank Tore.

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1431 on: 04 Apr , 2013, 13:55 »
Tore, here are the updated lines.


Scale (Full) 1 pixel = 2.25 mm/(Forum) 1 pixel = 9.9 mm
« Last Edit: 04 Apr , 2013, 13:58 by NZSnowman »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1432 on: 04 Apr , 2013, 14:09 »
Simon.
You are getting close to completion. I guess the Gruetzner lubricator drive and supercharger clutch handle shall come later. So far everything looks fine to me.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1433 on: 06 Apr , 2013, 12:07 »
Hi Tore

Just an update on the engine room drawings. I am presenting at an Avalanche Conference next month, and currently spending more time working on my presentation. So the amount of drawing I am doing is slowing down for the next few weeks.

Slowly going back to the real world  :(

Simon

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1434 on: 06 Apr , 2013, 12:53 »
Simon.
I understand your dilemma. However avalanches in countries like ours is an important topic. Right now we are in a middle of an avalanche season, the worst ever, and we have a lot of casualties this winter. My concern is however a completely different one. I am moving up to my farm for the summer season and the access to internet is limited but I`ll be there. Looking forward to your update.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1435 on: 06 Apr , 2013, 13:04 »
Just the other day I saw an article about how big the avalanche season is, for this winter, it had a great picture of a huge avalanche crossing a road.

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1436 on: 06 Apr , 2013, 13:28 »
Simon.
Right now they are trying to dig out 3 persons which probably got instantly killed and  buried under 6 meters of compact snow a week ago. They have been using sound cannons and dynamite for 3 days to get safely in to this narrow valley. The snow is almost like concrete and impossible to dig by hand see photo taken today.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1437 on: 20 Apr , 2013, 02:16 »
Simon/OldNoob
Exhaust outlet.
Looking at some of my old photos to find floodgate details I came over two pictures which I shot during KNM Kauras drydocking in 1953. The pictures although of bad quality show clearly the exhaustoutlet I guess. Remembering Simons question on the style 6 exhaust let I was  astonished to see that my old U 995 seems to have style 6 execution.
Have a look at my bad photos and the photo of present day U-995 with a welded plate on the location where I presume the style 6 outlet should be.
« Last Edit: 20 Apr , 2013, 06:07 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1438 on: 20 Apr , 2013, 03:13 »
Simon/OldNoob
Exhaust outlet.
Looking at some of my old photos to find floodgate details I came over two pictures which I shot during KNM Kauras drydocking in 1953. The pictures although of bad quality show clearly the exhaustoutlet I guess. Remembering Simons question on the style 6 exhaust let I was  astonished the my old U 995 seemed to have style 6 execution.
Have a look at my bad photos and the photo of present day U-995 with a welded plate on the location where I presume the style 6 outlet should be.

Tore, this is fantastic! I original thought that U-995 have Style 6 back April 2010.
http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=280.msg5402#msg5402

But by March 2011 I was not 100% sure so I remove it from the list.
http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=280.msg9026#msg9026

It great to see my original thought was correct :)

Tore, does this mean that you will need to change you model ;)

Also an update on the engine room, it has taken me a lot longer to do my Avalanche presentation than I thought. I did my first read through last week and it turn out to be way too long. So I had to rework it a lot to make it shorter.

I will continue working on the engine room drawing before winter starts here, but there is no way I can finish it before that time :( I believe I still have about four weeks of drawing to have it totally finish. It

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1439 on: 20 Apr , 2013, 03:23 »
Simon/OldNoob
Exhaust outlet.
Looking at some of my old photos to find floodgate details I came over two pictures which I shot during KNM Kauras drydocking in 1953. The pictures although of bad quality show clearly the exhaustoutlet I guess. Remembering Simons question on the style 6 exhaust let I was  astonished the my old U 995 seemed to have style 6 execution.
Have a look at my bad photos and the photo of present day U-995 with a welded plate on the location where I presume the style 6 outlet should be.

Tore, I was just thinking do you think that Style 6 was added at Trondheim?

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1440 on: 20 Apr , 2013, 06:03 »
Simon.
I shall eventually change my KNM Kaura model. I don`t think the style 6 was introduced in Trondheim. I am busy checking the exhaustoutlet on U- 1202 which looks as if  she had the style 6.
Tore
« Last Edit: 20 Apr , 2013, 23:46 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1441 on: 20 Apr , 2013, 06:52 »
Simon.
Style 6 exhaustoutlet.
After checking the photo materials in my files I have found a fairly reliable evidence that U-1202 was equipped with the style 6 outlet as well. As you see on the photo below of KNM Kinn (ex U-1202) the casing was painted black from the waterline and a bit up, strongly indicating that the exhaustoutlet is submerged on that spot. Further the outlet is placed a bit abaft of the conventional above surface outlet. I assume the sparkarrestor was kept unchanged and the outletpipe from the sparkarrestor led a bit abaft in the narrow submerged space between the pressurehull and casing.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1442 on: 27 Apr , 2013, 01:24 »
Simon.
I have enjoyed studying you amazing latest drawing of the main engines. As mentioned to you, I have some minor remarks knowing your are keen on details. ;)
It looks as if you have made the nameplates at the maneuvering stand of brass, they are of aluminium. See photo.
The inlet and exhaust valvestems have a lockingwire on the valve clearance nut. See photo.
The lever for the supercharger clutch/natural aspiration rotating inletvalves is missing. See photo.
The handle for the main starting airwheel is missing. See photo.
The counter for the revolutions on top of the lube oilpump is, as far as I can see, missing. See photo.
As said these are minor details probably known to you and may be you have decided to omit same. ;D
Tore
 

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1443 on: 27 Apr , 2013, 13:57 »
Simon.
I have enjoyed studying you amazing latest drawing of the main engines. As mentioned to you, I have some minor remarks knowing your are keen on details. ;)
It looks as if you have made the nameplates at the maneuvering stand of brass, they are of aluminium. See photo. - FIX
The inlet and exhaust valvestems have a lockingwire on the valve clearance nut. See photo. - I decide to ignore this wire this at this stage, it

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1444 on: 28 Apr , 2013, 23:31 »
Rudiment of direct reversing.
As previously discussed the later main dieselengines of the VIIC and VIIC/41s were not equipped with a direct reversible device. These U-boats maneuvered by the E-motors as the common practise for submarines. Hence the vertical reversing cylinder and a few other items were not installed, however a few reversing parts remained and amongst these the name plate and the supportstand for the reversing handle. Below is a photo of this item which Simon correctly has incorporated in his drawing. :D
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1445 on: 29 Apr , 2013, 18:54 »
Hi Tore

I am wondering about the flooring in the galley.

Can you remember or know if the flooring in the galley was make up of numerous smaller plates like the engine room or one or two large plates? Do you need access to piping under the galley?

Thanks, Simon.



Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1446 on: 30 Apr , 2013, 00:44 »
Simon.
I guess there are about six access covers, may be one or two are in the batteryswitch compartment. Access would be needed as follows:
1. Sounding pipe for freshwater tank.
2. Sounding pipe for dirtywater tank.
3. Two valves for Limeconnection battery compartment
4. Two valves for natural galleybilge drain to engineroom.
Se pictures below.
Tore
 

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1447 on: 30 Apr , 2013, 00:54 »
Simon.
Sorry somehow the galley drainpipes came up twice. Here is the missing soundingpipes.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1448 on: 30 Apr , 2013, 01:33 »
Simon.
I guess there are about six access covers, may be one or two are in the batteryswitch compartment. Access would be needed as follows:
1. Sounding pipe for freshwater tank.
2. Sounding pipe for dirtywater tank.
3. Two valves for Limeconnection battery compartment
4. Two valves for natural galleybilge drain to engineroom.
Se pictures below.
Tore

I read somewhere that the Lime system got a complete redesign for the late war Type VIIC's.

I think will do similar size floor plates as the engine room

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1449 on: 30 Apr , 2013, 01:42 »
Simon.
I guess you are right, we never made use of the limesystem. May be you should make the sounding openings as in the engineroom.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1450 on: 30 Apr , 2013, 01:44 »
Here a rare photo of the original German floor plate. Its look like the plates are about the same size as the engine room with smaller access hatches.

I imagine the pipe on the right is the sounding for the waste water?


Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1451 on: 30 Apr , 2013, 01:52 »
Simon.
I guess you are right, we never made use of the limesystem. May be you should make the sounding openings as in the engineroom.
Tore

I can not remember which book is was in, perhaps in The U-Boat: The Evolution and Technical History of German Submarines, but it said that the German move the outflow lines of the lime system below the batteries previously the lines run above the batteries.

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1452 on: 30 Apr , 2013, 01:55 »
Simon.
The location for the pipe is rigth for the waste water tank, so it could be.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1453 on: 30 Apr , 2013, 02:06 »
Tore, I was looking Plate 21:  Fresh water, wash water, waste and sanitary systems http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate21.htm

I imagine they remove the hot water pipe between the Galley and Officers Quarters which run under the wooden deck, on the late war Type VIIC's?

 

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1454 on: 30 Apr , 2013, 02:17 »
Tore, I was just wondering did you ever changes the batteries on KNM Kaura or are they original German batteries?

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1455 on: 30 Apr , 2013, 04:44 »
Warm washwater.
I honestly don`t remember. I assume the horizontal waterpump port fwd engineroom which is connected up to the system, see previous discussion June 5th 2012, was installed after my time. The warm water heater on the aft bulkhead  in the fwd. torpedoroom next to the officers bathroom was definitely installed after my time.
Tore
« Last Edit: 30 Apr , 2013, 04:46 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1456 on: 30 Apr , 2013, 04:55 »
Batteries.
All the batteries were changed and new batteries were made by the Norwegian submarine battery manufacturer. As a part of my education I even took part in the "production" making my own car battery. ;D
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1457 on: 30 Apr , 2013, 14:15 »
Tore, how the floor look like in the galley now?


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1458 on: 30 Apr , 2013, 14:41 »
Simon.
It looks fine to me. A small detail, the small accesshatch close to the range has a larger oval hole. It looks to me that you can see the top of a sounding stick through the hole.  In that case it would be the sounding for the freshwatertank.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1459 on: 30 Apr , 2013, 23:11 »
Warm washwater.
I honestly don`t remember. I assume the horizontal waterpump port fwd engineroom which is connected up to the system, see previous discussion June 5th 2012, was installed after my time. The warm water heater on the aft bulkhead  in the fwd. torpedoroom next to the officers bathroom was definitely installed after my time.
Tore

Tore, how did the waste water get off the boat? Was it through the bilges then out to sea?


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1460 on: 30 Apr , 2013, 23:46 »
Simon.
Wastewater drain.
The wastewater tank has a connection to the bilgewaterpump in the controlroom as seen on the sketch below.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1461 on: 30 Apr , 2013, 23:55 »
Simon.
Further to my last post. As you see  on the sketch I believe it is a washbasin  in the crews WC as well.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1462 on: 01 May , 2013, 08:56 »
Tore, thanks for answer. Could you mark the location of head tank in conning tower (if possible, using this drawings: http://uboatarchive.net/U-570GeneralPlan.htm)


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek

Maciek.
The head tank or may better buffertank is not a big tank,just big enough to keep a positive head in the system. It is fed from the coolingwater outlet at the exhaustsilencer, the location is about where I put the arrow on the drawing below.
Tore

Simon and Maciek.
I remember you had a question about the watercompensating tank for the fueltanks back in November last year. When looking through my drawingfiles today I came over a GA drawing of the VIIC/41 showing the 1944/45 execution. You are able to see the small tank located in towercasing on the sketch below.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1463 on: 01 May , 2013, 13:24 »
Tore, thanks for answer. Could you mark the location of head tank in conning tower (if possible, using this drawings: http://uboatarchive.net/U-570GeneralPlan.htm)


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek



Maciek.
The head tank or may better buffertank is not a big tank,just big enough to keep a positive head in the system. It is fed from the coolingwater outlet at the exhaustsilencer, the location is about where I put the arrow on the drawing below.
Tore

Simon and Maciek.
I remember you had a question about the watercompensating tank for the fueltanks back in November last year. When looking through my drawingfiles today I came over a GA drawing of the VIIC/41 showing the 1944/45 execution. You are able to see the small tank located in towercasing on the sketch below.
Tore

Great found Tore!

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1464 on: 01 May , 2013, 14:12 »
Tore, the arrow coming out of the watercompensating tank is a drain?

http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate10.htm


Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1465 on: 01 May , 2013, 14:31 »
Tore, I imagine late war water compensating tanks would be were galvanized?

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1466 on: 01 May , 2013, 14:40 »
Simon.
It could very well be galvanized.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1467 on: 01 May , 2013, 14:46 »
Simon
The non coloured arrow probably indicate an outbord drain, not overflow.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1468 on: 01 May , 2013, 15:11 »
Tore, would the water level be over both pipes?

How does it looks so far?

Will add the piping under the water compensating tank next summer


Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1469 on: 01 May , 2013, 15:22 »
Hi Tore,

Tore, thanks for answer. Could you mark the location of head tank in conning tower (if possible, using this drawings: http://uboatarchive.net/U-570GeneralPlan.htm)

I remember you had a question about the watercompensating tank for the fueltanks back in November last year. When looking through my drawingfiles today I came over a GA drawing of the VIIC/41 showing the 1944/45 execution. You are able to see the small tank located in towercasing on the sketch below.


Very interesting. Its the first trace of this thank, thank  you very much for locating it.


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1470 on: 02 May , 2013, 00:23 »
Simon.
I believe this is OK. However the waterlevel when surfaced and dieselengines running would be as indicated on the drawings below.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1471 on: 02 May , 2013, 00:49 »
Simon.
I should perhaps mention you have a variation in the waterlevel between stopped and running diesels. The supplyline ends almost half way in the tank ( red) preventing the tank to be emptied at stopped engines. The overflow ( blue) ends almost at the top allowing a certain amount of "play" in the watertank volume, but always ensure a positive head surfaced and submerged.
Tore
« Last Edit: 02 May , 2013, 00:51 by tore »

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1472 on: 15 May , 2013, 08:42 »
Tore,


I have got picture of the aft side of the attack periscope well. Could you tell me, what are these four pipes with sight glasses?
The three pipes between them with outlets in one funnel look like drains of the air intake, exhaust and diesel engine intake trunk head valves.





http://www.kubische-panoramen.de/index.php?id_id=5378&p=i


--
Thanks, regards

Maciek
« Last Edit: 17 May , 2013, 02:09 by SnakeDoc »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1473 on: 15 May , 2013, 23:26 »
Maciek.
I am not 100% sure, but guess they are all drains from what you assume. Two drains from each of the two ventilation air inlet shaft, at least one from the main dieselair inletvalve,and I assume ( can`t remember) some from the schnorchel system. I shall study the matter a bit further and hopefully be able to give you further details. Unfortunately I am in a remote area for the summer and have only limited access to a very slow broadband so it takes time.  :(
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1474 on: 16 May , 2013, 15:32 »
Maciek
I assume your question can be split in two answers. The pipes ending in a funnel are drains from the air ventilation inlet valves and main diesel inletvalve, see sketch below. The drain via sigthglasses ends in the bilge through a muffler and is checkdrain from the regulating and RFO tank 1 port and stb. and possibly also the check drain from the negative buoyancy tanks port and stb as I have not been able to trace this muffler drain in the fwd. controlroom, see sketches below. As usual the real systems are not a copy of the schematic sketches.
« Last Edit: 16 May , 2013, 15:46 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1475 on: 16 May , 2013, 16:27 »
Maciek
I assume your question can be split in two answers. The pipes ending in a funnel are drains from the air ventilation inlet valves and main diesel inletvalve, see sketch below. The drain via sigthglasses ends in the bilge through a muffler and is checkdrain from the regulating and RFO tank 1 port and stb. and possibly also the check drain from the negative buoyancy tanks port and stb as I have not been able to trace this muffler drain in the fwd. controlroom, see sketches below. As usual the real systems are not a copy of the schematic sketches.

Tore, I was looking at drain line for the Diesel Air Main Intake. It seen very high in the intake line and would leave a large amount of sea water in the intake line. This were a 2nd drain line?


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1476 on: 17 May , 2013, 01:14 »
Simon
You are of course right, howewer this is a simple sketch possibly made by a German engineering officer to show the first type of standard schnorchel having a different airinlet as the next generation installed on U-995.  As the centerline of the valvespindle is wrongly offset, the drain gives a faulty impression of leaving substantial water in the shaft. The drain, I believe is more like a leakage check rather than a complete shaft drain. The sketch shows more the system than the real execution.
I assume it is a different need for drain for the diesel inlet air and the ventilation air. The diesel shaft  is acting almost like a very big drain having its outlet in the engine room bilge, in bad weather the water was constantly gushing down in the bilge and the bilge pump was running all the time. You would not like have the same amount of water in the ventilation shafts, hence a more elaborate drainage for this system at the main inlet.
Tore

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1477 on: 17 May , 2013, 02:57 »
Hi Tore,
The drain via sigthglasses ends in the bilge through a muffler and is checkdrain from the regulating and RFO tank 1 port and stb. and possibly also the check drain from the negative buoyancy tanks port and stb as I have not been able to trace this muffler drain in the fwd. controlroom, see sketches below.


Thanks for your explanation. What was the function of "check drain"? I'm little confused, as these pipes (with sightglasses) seem to be connected to the top part of regulating and RFO tanks. So aren't they rather vent lines? But if so, what for are these sight glasses? What can be observed there?


And these mufflers - I suppose they were to silence the air escaping from the flooded or pressurized tanks. But how do they work/look like?


--
Regards
Maciek

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1478 on: 17 May , 2013, 05:36 »
Hi,


And one more question - do you remember, what kind of electronic device is it? It is located in the forward part of control room, at port site.



Is it German, war-time? Was it installed, when U-995 served in Norwegian Navy?


Some time ago I have asked about this part of electronic equipment. Initially I was convinced, that this is post-war, unrelated with U-Boats, electronic device. But then accidentally I have found some informations which made me change my mind. I have started some researches and the results are in this article:
http://www.ubootwaffe.pl/en/u-boats/equipment/radar-of-german-u-boats
I hope you find it interesting. Any feedback is welcomed.


To answer my initial question, the device I have asked is part of FuMO 30 - early version of German radar for U-Boats.
I'm also 100% sure, that U 995 was not equipped with any active sonar gear (except echo depth sounding device).


--
Regards
Maciek
« Last Edit: 17 May , 2013, 06:05 by SnakeDoc »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1479 on: 17 May , 2013, 07:19 »
Maciek.
 May be I better take one question at the time that's probably enough for an old man. Muffler comes in a wide range of design, the basic for a gas (air ) muffler is it destroys the vibration energy so the air escapes without noise. I never looked inside the U 995 air muffler but I am pretty sure it consisted of some kind of baffle plates and the air escaped though holes in the outer casing. If you look at the photo of the Kubische Panorama you are able to see the holes. Below is an example how a muffler looks inside.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1480 on: 17 May , 2013, 08:00 »
Maciek.
I agree with you check drain, was not the best word for the pipes. Venting and air supply is probably more correct. The purpose of the system  has two tasks. As you correctly are stating, venting. This is particularly important for the Q tank ( Untertriebzelle port and stb.) which is used for emergency quick diving and silencing is essential.
As the regulating tanks, are not connected to the pressure water compensating system , the pipes are used, when the regulating tanks are used as fueltanks, as  air pressurepipes to the tanks in order to transfer the fuel to the internal fuelsystem, as you see it is possible to use this LP air to the saddle ballast tanks 2 and 4 port/stb as well.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1481 on: 17 May , 2013, 08:08 »
Maciek
Sigthglasses are used for checking the drain from the tanks like fuel, water, air etc. An important item, you don`t want to have fuel in the bilge.
Obviously if you used funnels for these pipes the purpose of the mufflers are gone.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1482 on: 17 May , 2013, 23:58 »
Maciek.
Active sonar/ radar.
I think you are correct, I believe I can remember we did not have the active sonar. I read the article on the german radar development with interest and I can`t  contribute very much except to mention right after the war it was a general distrust of anything related to german radar. In my time I believe we had the original U- 995 equipment. We tried it several times with very little success. The worst experience was up at Lofoten Island, Northern Norway an early very foggy morning. These  island rise up from the sea like a wall 100- 300 meters and we  surfaced just outside the islands which were impossible to see and we tried out the radar. There was no echo, so we tried the old fashioned system, the whistle, and got immediately an echo. When the morning fog disappeared we discovered we were about 400- 500 meters from an impressive rockwall. After that we discarded the german radar, probably unjust, but in those days the navigators were still very skilled in navigating without electronics.
Tore

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1483 on: 20 May , 2013, 02:11 »
Hi Tore,


thanks for your answers.


May be I better take one question at the time that's probably enough for an old man. Muffler comes in a wide range of design, the basic for a gas (air ) muffler is it destroys the vibration energy so the air escapes without noise. I never looked inside the U 995 air muffler but I am pretty sure it consisted of some kind of baffle plates and the air escaped though holes in the outer casing. If you look at the photo of the Kubische Panorama you are able to see the holes. Below is an example how a muffler looks inside.


Thanks, I did not notice these holes - now it's clear for me.


As the regulating tanks, are not connected to the pressure water compensating system , the pipes are used, when the regulating tanks are used as fueltanks, as  air pressurepipes to the tanks in order to transfer the fuel to the internal fuelsystem, as you see it is possible to use this LP air to the saddle ballast tanks 2 and 4 port/stb as well.


Sigthglasses are used for checking the drain from the tanks like fuel, water, air etc. An important item, you don`t want to have fuel in the bilge.
Obviously if you used funnels for these pipes the purpose of the mufflers are gone.


Well, I must confess, I do not understand it. How can the fuel or water get to this pipe? During which operation? And when the fuel (or water) get there, does not affect the muffler?


The matter why the funnels are not used, is now clear for me.


--
Thanks, regards

Maciek


Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1484 on: 20 May , 2013, 02:15 »
Active sonar/ radar.
I think you are correct, I believe I can remember we did not have the active sonar. I read the article on the german radar development with interest and I can`t  contribute very much except to mention right after the war it was a general distrust of anything related to german radar. In my time I believe we had the original U- 995 equipment. We tried it several times with very little success. The worst experience was up at Lofoten Island, Northern Norway an early very foggy morning. These  island rise up from the sea like a wall 100- 300 meters and we  surfaced just outside the islands which were impossible to see and we tried out the radar. There was no echo, so we tried the old fashioned system, the whistle, and got immediately an echo. When the morning fog disappeared we discovered we were about 400- 500 meters from an impressive rockwall. After that we discarded the german radar, probably unjust, but in those days the navigators were still very skilled in navigating without electronics.


Your recollection about unreliable German radar is consistent with few informations about its operational usage.
The story about  "old fashioned system" - the whistle is amazing.


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1485 on: 20 May , 2013, 13:20 »
Hi Tore,


thanks for your answers.


May be I better take one question at the time that's probably enough for an old man. Muffler comes in a wide range of design, the basic for a gas (air ) muffler is it destroys the vibration energy so the air escapes without noise. I never looked inside the U 995 air muffler but I am pretty sure it consisted of some kind of baffle plates and the air escaped though holes in the outer casing. If you look at the photo of the Kubische Panorama you are able to see the holes. Below is an example how a muffler looks inside.


Thanks, I did not notice these holes - now it's clear for me.


As the regulating tanks, are not connected to the pressure water compensating system , the pipes are used, when the regulating tanks are used as fueltanks, as  air pressurepipes to the tanks in order to transfer the fuel to the internal fuelsystem, as you see it is possible to use this LP air to the saddle ballast tanks 2 and 4 port/stb as well.


Sigthglasses are used for checking the drain from the tanks like fuel, water, air etc. An important item, you don`t want to have fuel in the bilge.
Obviously if you used funnels for these pipes the purpose of the mufflers are gone.


Well, I must confess, I do not understand it. How can the fuel or water get to this pipe? During which operation? And when the fuel (or water) get there, does not affect the muffler?


The matter why the funnels are not used, is now clear for me.


--
Thanks, regards

Maciek



Maciek.
F. inst when the regulating tanks are used as RFO tanks you are filling fuel into the non watercompensated, regulating and RFO tanks 1 port and stb you open the valves in the violet lines to the tanks and fuel is entering the tanks usually by gravity,  further you open the valve as shown on the green pipes in order to let the air escape  from the tanks via the sigth glasses and muffler. You check through the sigthglasses to be sure when the tank is nearly full that only air and no fuel enters the bilges. The mufflers are not very  sensitive to clean non aggressive liquids.
Tore

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1486 on: 21 May , 2013, 02:12 »
Thanks Tore, now I understand.


--
Regards
Maciek

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1487 on: 21 May , 2013, 13:49 »
Maciek.
Muffler inboard venting  Q tank.
I should probably mention an important use for this system. As you most probably know a common practise for a submarine attack is to fire your torpedoes and then go deep.
This should be done as quick as possible and off course very silent. That is the purpose of the Q tanks and the discussed inboard venting.At the attack the Q tank Kingstons are open. At the COs order the main inboard ventvalve is open and both Q tanks are quickly filled via the Kingstons (yellow line venting mode) the submarine sinks and the inboard venting sound is silenced leaving no sound and outside airbubbles to reveal your position. The main vent  is immediately shut as seawater is coming into the bilge and a man is stand by at the  Q tanks main blowingvalve waiting for the order to blow the tank empty ( green line blowing mode) at required depth. May be all this is pretty obvious for you but anyhow I thougth it  worth to mention.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1488 on: 07 Jul , 2013, 14:35 »
High voltage E-system Blohm & Voss drawings.
Looking into some of my papers, I came across the other day a drawing made by the shipyard Blohm & Voss-Steinwarder and marked U-101 corrected 1943.It shows the complete lay out of the high voltage electric plant of VII C as made by Blohm & Voss, I guess I have kept it from my first year on board KNM Kaura ex.U-995. I realize this can only be of interest for some very few enthusiasts, but I nevertheless just mention this in case somebody should have any interest of a copy of some details. The drawing is almost 1,60 meter and the quality is not great, so I guess I can only make copy of particularly required details.
Tore
« Last Edit: 07 Jul , 2013, 14:43 by tore »

Offline SG

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 661
    • https://3xblackcats.wordpress.com/
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1489 on: 08 Jul , 2013, 10:57 »
Tore u're unique!

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1490 on: 09 Jul , 2013, 15:07 »
Hi Tore,
The drawing is almost 1,60 meter and the quality is not great, so I guess I can only make copy of particularly required details.


I'm one of those interested in seeing it as a whole :) If it is not possible I would like to see details related with main and auxiliary switchboards.


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1491 on: 09 Jul , 2013, 23:52 »
Hi Maciek.
I had an idea you are interested. I have made a few photos of the Schalt-tafel in the E-room as shown below to have an idea about the quality. May be we could go step by step in the same manner if you believe it is of interest. I shall try to stretch the paper a bit. I presume I did the colouring of the different lines way back in time.
Tore
 

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1492 on: 10 Jul , 2013, 09:35 »
Hi Tore,


this is my interpretation of one these drawings. Some of its elements are obvious, others not.
I have marked with blue ovals parts, which I can not recognize, but I would like to know what they are.
I'm confused about rotary converters. I have counted five - four (marked 2 - 5) look like single armature
converters and one (marked with 1 and labeled as Radio Sender) looks like double armature converter.
I'm trying to match these with informations from U-boat Information for U-boat Type VIIC (page 175)
http://uboatarchive.net/Manual.htm
but with no luck for now.


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek


Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1493 on: 10 Jul , 2013, 09:43 »
On the second drawing I recognized two driving motors for two air fans (but which one is which - exhaust or intake - I do not know), and two motors for pumps - lubricating oil auxiliary pump and cooling water auxiliary pump - again - I do not now which one is which.
With blue ovals I have marked parts, which I do not recognize.


Tore, these drawings are great!


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1494 on: 10 Jul , 2013, 10:26 »
Maciek.

The upper blue oval shows, I presume, top motor for luboil purifier, under: seawaterheater for purifier and then  lower: dirty oil heater. The next smaller oval is electric heating ( heizung 4) and the lower circle heating ( heizung 3 ). I shall try to make photos a bit more systematic starting from aft and hope to be able to post it in the course of the week.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1495 on: 10 Jul , 2013, 11:51 »
Maciek
Here are the first photos starting from aft torp- E room .
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1496 on: 10 Jul , 2013, 11:57 »
E- diagram
More photos, engineroom and galley and aft pto mess.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1497 on: 10 Jul , 2013, 12:01 »
E- diagram Controlroom
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1498 on: 10 Jul , 2013, 12:20 »
Maciek
Here are the final photos. It is all done in a hurry and I have not been able to check the details. If you are missing something just let me know.
Tore

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1499 on: 10 Jul , 2013, 15:09 »
Tore,
If you are missing something just let me know.


Thank you very much.
I wonder, if you could make photos of top parts of the pictures e1, e2, e4
and bottom parts of the pictures e3, e5, e7 and e8.
There is also some part missing between e2 and e3, e5 and e7.


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1500 on: 10 Jul , 2013, 23:41 »
Maciek
Here are the top parts of e1 and e2
Tore
« Last Edit: 11 Jul , 2013, 06:48 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1501 on: 11 Jul , 2013, 00:03 »
Maciek.
Top photo e 4 galley
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1502 on: 11 Jul , 2013, 00:35 »
The missing lower parts
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1503 on: 11 Jul , 2013, 01:04 »
Maciek.
Final missing details. Again don`t hesitate to ask for more details if needed.
Tore

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1504 on: 12 Jul , 2013, 06:15 »
Tore, thank you very much.


Could you help me to decipher some labels, marked with blue ovals?
Here are my few assumptions:
1 - something to connect test gear for G7e torpedoes
4 - heating panel for G7e torpedoes?
5 - something related with gyro-compass?


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1505 on: 12 Jul , 2013, 10:44 »
eMaciek.
1. is marked as pruefgerat and connected to the switchpanel for light.
4. is marked as heiss-schaltkasten G7e
5. is marked as  E ? kompass.... Could be light for the gyro.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1506 on: 12 Jul , 2013, 10:48 »
maciek.
As to the electric system for the torpedoes you shall find a better quality of the text looking at the fwd. torpedoroom.
Tore

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1507 on: 12 Jul , 2013, 11:42 »
Thanks Tore,


and the others marks: 2, 3, 6, 7, 8, 9?


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1508 on: 12 Jul , 2013, 11:52 »
Maciek.
Coming up, harder to decipher, trying photoshop possibilities, but no success yet.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1509 on: 12 Jul , 2013, 12:30 »
Maciek.
I presume 2 and 3 are the rudders, 6 and 7 are the aft hydroplanes. If you look to the fwd. torpedoroom you shall find the same arrangement for the fwd hydroplanes. One type of the boxes are marked " Endlage...". I  believe the boxes are related to the operation system for hydroplanes and rudders. As you know they are all normally operated electric and having electric repeaters for position indicators as well. I assume the rudders and hydroplanes have main switches as drawn.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1510 on: 12 Jul , 2013, 12:50 »
Maciek.
9 is hard to decipher. It is a converter for the radiotransmitter, but the text is unreadable for me . I am posting a close up photo may be somebody can decipher the text.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1511 on: 12 Jul , 2013, 23:23 »
Maciek.
The 8 is a hard nut to crack. Below is a close up photo. I believe the first word is "Heissung..." but I cannot understand this as it is connected up to the aux. switchboard. Neither do I understand the type of switch placed in a wire from the aux switchboard.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1512 on: 12 Jul , 2013, 23:41 »
Maciek.
Looking at the 5 which I assume is a similar indicator ligth system for the gyro, I believe I might see the letters G7e. Could 8 be indicator lights for the heating of the torpedoes?
Tore

Offline SnakeDoc

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 536
  • Gender: Male
    • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1513 on: 15 Jul , 2013, 05:55 »
Tore, thanks.


I think, that 1 is for connecting some equipment for testing electric torpedoes. Why only in aft torpedo room? I have found, that there was low voltage motor testing gear, which consisted of acid-lead battery. I believe, that panel 1 was used to charging this battery.
2 - Endlageschalter - limit switch for electric motor driving main rudder
3 - Wiederstande - starting and breaking resistors for motor
4 - G7e Heizschaltkasten - G7e torpedoes heating panels
 5 - E komassumf (former) - rotary converter for gyro compass
6 - Wiederstande - starting and breaking resistors for aft diving planes motor
 7 - Endlageschalter - limit switch for aft diving planes motor
8 - something related with G7e torpedoes 
9 - Senderum (former) - rotary converter for radio transmitter


I will have more questions, when investigating remaining parts of drawing.


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1514 on: 10 Aug , 2013, 01:22 »
The VIIC s surviving the Deadlight.
As far as I remember as a result of the Yalta conference in February 1945 US, Soviet and UK agreed to destroy the vast German submarine fleet leaving only 10 submarines for each of the three parties for research. The end story of all these 30 submarines is not known to me, but as we had a very close cooperation with British submarine services during the war ( 9Th. Submarine Flotilla) we assisted the RN as to the Deadlight transfer of the some 90 odd German submarines surrendering in Norway. The Norwegian submarine officers in the transfer commission came to the conclusion that some of the submarines were not fit for the transfer and they were temporary "stored" and "forgotten"in Norway.
After the cold war and NATO the transfer of these  submarines to the Norwegian Navy was formalised in 1950. Amongst these submarines were 3 VII Cs : U 324,U 926, U 1202 and one VIIC/41 U 995. U 324 was beyond repair and was used as a "sparepart boat", the reminding boats were included as frontline boats as the K class in the Norwegian Navy, got NATO pennant nos. and names of Norwegian light houses starting with a K. Contrary to what is stated these VII Cs were in the first years front lineboats and not training vessels.
Tore
« Last Edit: 10 Aug , 2013, 06:16 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1515 on: 11 Aug , 2013, 01:53 »
U 995
Of the VIICs surviving the Deadlight perhaps U995 is the most known. What might not be known is her last warpatrol. She was station in Narvik for operation against the convoys  in the Barents Sea. Feb. 45 She left for her last patrol (8. Unternehmung) under the commanding officer Hans Georg Hess being 21 years, the youngest CO of a submarine ever in WW2. At this time the Germans had withdrawn from the the Norwegian northern county  Finmark which was temporary occupied by the Soviet. In the Norwegian harbour of Kirkenes Hess discovered a Norwegian freighter estimated 6000 g.ts. (Idefjord) discharging cargo and he decided to attack. They were using tubes 1 and 3 which were loaded with FAT-2-Typ T IIIa ( Geleitzug) torpedoes. Hess observed two detonation and left a 3. shot to his No 1 Schroeder observing a 3rd hit. They reported the freighter sunk and Hess was awarded the Ritterkreutz over the radio. She fled the area hunted by the Norwegian corvette H. Nor.MS Eglantine. During the hunt Hess decided to fire the two last torpedoes, one bow and the aft at Eglantine, but at the crucial moment during the aiming, the Leitende Ing. Rudolph Wellnitz responsible for the trim and hydroplanes, dipped the boat and the periscope was submerged. Wellnitz was totally against  Hess about this attack so he dipped the boat. U 995 returned to Trondheim for retrofitting and Schnorchel installation where she still was at the surrender. Wellnitz, who possibly would get a death sentence, was not reported by Hess. Probably because he realized in aftermath that U 995 was saved due to this. Hess later became a lawyer and Dr. and took part in the restoration of the U-995 in Kiel. He died in 2008. The Norwegian freighter Idefjord did not get a hit and left later the harbour undamaged. The COs got probably the Ritterkreutz a bit more easy in the last months of WW2 . That`s the last warpatrol of U-995.
Tore
« Last Edit: 12 Aug , 2013, 05:33 by tore »

Offline SG

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 661
    • https://3xblackcats.wordpress.com/
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1516 on: 11 Aug , 2013, 05:04 »
Tore these are great pieces of information!!Thanks for sharing!!
So the torpedoes missed Idefjord. Any information about what they really hit or about the damage they caused?

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1517 on: 11 Aug , 2013, 06:13 »
SG
There are a lot of discussion about where the torpedoes ended some search the near about rocks but no traces of a hit. A double short torpedonet (ex. German) was between Idefjord and U 995 but I understand experts said the torpedo would not detonate in the net. The only thing which is sure is that SS Idefjord left the harbour unharmed and Hess got his Ritterkreutz.
Tore 

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1518 on: 13 Aug , 2013, 08:32 »
U 995- at the end of the war.
A Norwegian enthusiast and hobby historian Otto H.Naesgard Andersen has written a couple of booklets dealing with the U 995 history during and after the WW2. " The torpedoattack on SS Idefjord" and " KNM Kaura ex.U 995 from Kriegsmarine via the Royal Norwegian Navy to museumboat". Unfortunately the publications, which are indeed very detailed, are in the Norwegian language but with the authors permission I am able to share some of the materials. Below I am posting two pictures of the U 995 crew at the commission Sept. 16 1943 and the last parole at the surrender May 1945 in Trondheim. As the author remarks you are able to see the crews relief having survived the war on the last picture.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1519 on: 14 Aug , 2013, 00:51 »
U 995 and the last warpatrol, attack on SS Idefjord.
Otto H. Naesgard Andersen gives a detailed description of the attack in his booklet. U 995 CO Hans Georg Hess called in his officers upon the sight of SSIdefjord in the Soviet controlled Norwegian harbour of Kirkenes and inspired by Guenter Priens Scapa Flow attack he said: "Meine herren, was halten Sie von einem Ueberraschungsangriff a la Scapa Flow?" in free translation: "Gentlemen what do you think about a surprise attack a la Scapa Flow?" They decided to attack February 8Th. and at night 0300 in silent mode put the boat on the sea bottom just outside a Soviet signalstation on the island of Rein
« Last Edit: 21 Aug , 2013, 08:05 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1520 on: 15 Aug , 2013, 02:16 »
2.ND sinking of SS Idefjord.U 997
The story of Idefjord is very special. April 22ND. 1945 SS Idefjord was again on her way to Murmansk to join Convoy RA 66 back to Scotland. In the morning she was spotted by Oberleutnant Hans Lehmann CO of U 997 sistervessel of U 995. First torpedo missed and hit a soviet freighter "Onega" which sunk in a couple of minute, a second shot hit Idefjord fwd. port side, she did not sink and was towed to Murmansk. This convoy was again protected by the Norwegian corvet Eglantine and 4 minesweepers.
U 997 returned to Narvik and was due for fitting of Schnorchel exactly as U 995. Hans Lehmann got his Ritterkreutz as the last U boat CO as late as May 8Th. 1945.
Thus Idefjord contributed twice to Ritterkreutz award. Source: Otto H. Naesgard Andersen.
Tore
« Last Edit: 15 Aug , 2013, 02:17 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1521 on: 15 Aug , 2013, 23:24 »
U 995 and Idefjord epilogue.
As a finishing touch of this incident Otto H. Naesgard Andersen mention in his booklet autumn 1992 a Norwegian group of veteran naval gunners made a trip to U 995 at Laboe. Amongst these veterans was Bard Haugland a gunner on board the naval cutter Njal laying alongside Idefjord at the time of the attack and thus barely escaped sinking. They were met by Dr. Hans Georg Hess, the last German CO of  U 995, who acted as a guide on board. There was some mixed feeling in the beginning but in the end the meeting became very amicable. At that time a few photos were taken and I am posting below a  unique photo of Hess at the U 995 periscope in 1992 and a photo of Hess as a CO of U 995 at the bridge  ( source: Otto H Naesgard Andersen). 
« Last Edit: 19 Aug , 2013, 13:29 by tore »

Offline SG

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 661
    • https://3xblackcats.wordpress.com/
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1522 on: 18 Aug , 2013, 04:53 »
 :)    :)    :)  ! ! !

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1523 on: 24 Sep , 2013, 11:42 »
Alberich.
An interesting question was raised by falo to Simon if the pressurehull was covered by the Alberich rubber assuming the wooden casingdeck did not to be covered. My Asdic knowledge has become a bit rusty since my Asdic training course, but I guess the WW2 Asdic was based on the piezoelectro effect of quartzcrystal which then was transmitting acoustic pulses which were reflected by any object on its way. The sound "ping" was made audible to the human ear by mixing the frequencies in the Asdicset.
I am by no means  an expert on the Albricht design, but I guess the pressurehull of a sub. is not the only surface which reflects the "ping",  every surface like the pressure hull, casing, casing deck and tower would give a reflection. I should presume in order to have a sound reflectiondamping like the Alberich synthetic rubber layer, you should encase the whole sub. hence having Alberich cover on the surface encasing the sub.
Having looked at photos of the U-480 you can indeed see the she is covered by Alberich layer  on the visible outer surfaces like pressurehull, casing and deck. The Asdic acoustic "pings" would be reflected by wood, thin steelplates (casing) as well as thick steelplates(pressurehull). Those parts like pipes, ducts, vents, valves and pressurehull inside the casing would be protected by the Alberich covered casing and deck.
At last, the Asdic reflection were very often disturbed by variation in the seawater salinity, temperatures etc. The submarines made use of this by launching a bubble decoy filled with magnesium pellets which reacted with the seawater creating  bubbles giving a sonar reflection like a submarine.
Again I am not an expert on this item so just take it as an airing of my view.
Tore
« Last Edit: 25 Sep , 2013, 04:19 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1524 on: 29 Sep , 2013, 13:22 »
U 995 KNM Kaura
During the last couple of weeks I have been busy trying to paint a correct picture of the Norwegian version of U 995, KNM Kaura. The intention of the picture is to show her as a frontline submarine in the 1953 execution when I was the engineering officer on board. She is on her way to the Barents sea pitching in a stiff northerly breeze crossing the Vestfjord well above the Artic circle and meeting the old express steamer SS Finmark going south.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1525 on: 29 Sep , 2013, 13:32 »
Tore, that fantastic!!!!!!!

Are you up on deck, or down below, hard at work?  ;)

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1526 on: 29 Sep , 2013, 14:26 »
I am probably down below in my pink pyjamas

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1527 on: 29 Sep , 2013, 14:32 »
Standard Norwegian navy issue  ;D ;D

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1528 on: 29 Sep , 2013, 14:49 »
Sure, I was wearing my old greasy navy cap as well. ;D ;D

Offline SG

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 661
    • https://3xblackcats.wordpress.com/
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1529 on: 01 Oct , 2013, 11:20 »
Tore, congrats for the outfit  ;D .. and for the great artwork!

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1530 on: 11 Oct , 2013, 15:43 »
Next few pipes...

Pink = LO Cooler to Coll & Dist Manifold
Violet = Runs toward the pump (which I can not remember it name).
Green = from LO pump to pink line.
Yellow = from reducing valve to Green line.






Hi Tore

Found a small mistake in the piping this morning. I had to realign the Starboard LO Cooler to Coll & Dist Manifold (Pink) line as it was going through the Cooling Water/Corrosion System pipe :o


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1531 on: 12 Oct , 2013, 08:06 »
Hi Simon!
Nice to have you back in action. I am not 100% sure I understand how the return from the luboil pressurecontrolvalve and the stb.luboilcooler got into the anticorrosion/ coolingwaterpipe on you previous drawing as I fail to see the hook up. A bit hard to see on a small cut out of the system I guess. Mixing luboil with coolingwater is of course no good. ;D
Tore


Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1532 on: 12 Oct , 2013, 12:50 »
Hi Tore
 
Started drawing again a few days ago, it taken me this time to remember where I was on the drawing from last summer.
 
Hoping to finish the engine room this summer it will be my third summer on the engine room (18 months in total). I will not be able to spend as much time drawing this summer as I did last summer because I also need to work on my house and I just started a Masters Degree this winter.
 
I planning to finish the last few pipes in the top view, then redraw all the piping in the side view.

Had a very interest winter here in New Zealand, started with a huge snow storm which we got over 1.5 m of new snow in a few days. This resulted in a huge avalanche in my research area, I was able to got some great data :) The avalanche run a total distance of 1,984 m (6510 feet), cover an area 29.5 hectare (72.9 Acres) and had a mass of 50,686 tons. For the rest of the winter we got very little new snow :(

Now is springtime in New Zealand and we had more new snow in the last two weeks than we got for much of the winter, and it forecast to snow again this week ::)
 
Simon

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1533 on: 12 Oct , 2013, 13:09 »
Hi Simon.
While we are bracing for the snow and avalances after the best summer in 25 years you are entering the season for flowers and green grass, some difference. I shall be happy to follow you through the last part of the engineroom and look forward to seeing the final product which I  am sure shall be outstanding.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1534 on: 12 Oct , 2013, 13:32 »
While we are bracing for the snow and avalances after the best summer in 25 years...

We had the warmest winter in over 100 years in New Zealand this year...Global warming :(

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1535 on: 12 Oct , 2013, 13:36 »
Access panel?



Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1536 on: 13 Oct , 2013, 02:00 »
Simon.
I don`t think this is an access cover. The area is the casing for the centrifugal governor and linkage having ample access by the large sidecovers. I am not 100% sure of what it is, some foundation placed in the centerline and right above the camshaft. I am inclined to believe it is some "residue" from the direct reversible execution shifting the camshaft when changing direction of rotation. As you know the direct reversible mechanisms are removed from the engines as from 1943, but some minor fittings were left on the engines. I am posting a few photos showing what I mean. An interesting detail of the stb engine is the governorlinkage coming out of the casing which you see differs from the port linkage. I might have mentioned it before, but the reason is that stb engine is the "mirror" execution of the port and hence the fuel rodlinkage has to move the opposite direction.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1537 on: 13 Oct , 2013, 21:53 »
Tore, here a better view of this area.


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1538 on: 14 Oct , 2013, 01:30 »
Simon a very good photo. I don`t think it is any foundation. I f you look at the aft end drawing of the starboard engine there is nothing fitted in this empty space and on your photo are only two nuts on two studs. It migth be the studs are the fixing of the support pedestal for the governor leverarm inside the linkagecasing, I guess you should only draw the two nuts/studs.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1539 on: 14 Oct , 2013, 07:09 »
The situation for the German submarine fleet during the last days of WW2.
 During the last months of WW2 the center of gravity for the German submarinefleet moved to  Norwegian waters. A lot of confusion exist as to of the last months and weeks of the German WW2 submarinefleet. A RAF Air commodore (rtd) Derek Waller being an UK hobbyhistorian has carried out an interesting research on this subject and the time prior to the Deadlight. 87 U boats surrendered in Norwegian ports and further 9 from sea, making the total of 96 boats surrendering. His paper name these boats and they destiny, further he disclose the circumstances how France and Norway ended up with acquiring some of these boats in their submarine fleet. I have been in contact with Derek Waller and got his permission to share his recent paper on the subject which I trust shall have  interest for some of you.
Tore

Offline SG

  • Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 661
    • https://3xblackcats.wordpress.com/
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1540 on: 14 Oct , 2013, 09:20 »
Tore this is SUPER. Excellent piece of information, thanks for sharing!

U-4706: "Sold to the Royal Norwegian Yacht Club on 14 Apr 50". Fantastic  ;D
« Last Edit: 14 Oct , 2013, 09:21 by SG »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1541 on: 14 Oct , 2013, 15:34 »
Tore, I am working on the Collecting Tank system. I have added the piping needed around the engines.

I have added two funnel under the Auxiliary Lubricating Oil Pump (as seen in the drawing) and one funnel under the Hand Lubricating Oil Pump (as seen in the drawing).

Where would you also want to collect FO and LO? Maybe under the 'new' LO Filter?

Thanks, Simon.


http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate9.htm


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1542 on: 15 Oct , 2013, 01:24 »
Simon.
Basically you should have a spillcollection tray or drain on any component handling fuel or luboil. However this is not 100% so. If we consentrate on the fuelsystem, plate U 570Plate 9 is showing the MAN system and not GW. The GW system has the fueltransfer pump up front of the engine and has a driptray under the pump with a drain to the fueloil collecting tank. On the U 995  there are for some reason two different fuel drainage systems on port and stb. engines. The engine top drainage  from the port engine ends in a collecting box on the camshaftcase, whereas on stb this box is removed and the pipes goes directly down under the floorplates to ,I presume, the fueloil collecting tank. The fueloil knifefilters on  the camshaftcases have driptrays with drain on both engines. The drains goes directly down under the floorplating and I presume to the fueloil collecting tank. Strangely enough the duplex fuelfilters up front of the engines have no driptray or drain.
Tore
« Last Edit: 15 Oct , 2013, 01:30 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1543 on: 15 Oct , 2013, 01:54 »
Simon
Luboil drain.
We have no drawings of the luboil filters, but I should say  driptrays for the main luboil filters would be desireable. There are some problems though. The filters are well below the floorplating and as I should assume the drainage would go to the dirty luboiltank aft in the engineroom  it would be a problem with a gravity drainage to the tank. You could use the same dirty oil handpump on the aft engineroom bulkhead which is used for emptying the dirty oiltank. I`ll check if I can  see such a connection on some photos.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1544 on: 15 Oct , 2013, 06:26 »
Simon.
I have checked with all the photos I have, but cannot for sure see any  connection on the dirty oil handpump for a possible drain. For the removed centrifuge module (encircled within the dotted red line) you see a pipe for dirty oilsludge from the centrifuge marked to the bilge, I don`t believe this end up directly in the bilge. When the oil centrifuge module was removed and substituted by filters, it could be they kept this pipe for the drain from the filter, however to have this confirmed without any drawing or photo would be difficult and it would still remained to be seen where it ends.
Tore
« Last Edit: 15 Oct , 2013, 08:38 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1545 on: 15 Oct , 2013, 12:54 »
I was thinking about linking the Auxiliary Lubricating Oil Pump funnel to the FO Collecting Tank


You can see a small funnel next to the pump.


I was thinking the piping might look something like this? What do you think?


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1546 on: 15 Oct , 2013, 14:55 »
Simon.
The aux fueltransfer pump is a reserve luboil pump as well and when you change from fuel to lub oil and vice versa you have to drain the pipes and pump properly when you change. It could be the pump is drained through "k" via the funnel to the fuelcollecting tank or "k" are sniffers which are opened to let in air so fuel or luboil can be drained via the normal pipes to either in case of luboil to the luboil storagetank or in case of fuel to the fuelcollecting tank. I don`t think the pump has an ordinary driptray drainage. In any case I don't think the system is hooked up to the pressure side of the hoseconnection for the hand pump. I shall try to figure out something tomorrow as it is a bit late now ;D
Tore
« Last Edit: 15 Oct , 2013, 14:57 by tore »

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1547 on: 16 Oct , 2013, 02:09 »
Simon
The reserve luboil pump can be drained to the luboil storage tanks ( when bunkering luboil) as indicated on the below system sketch. In that case the cocks "k" act as sniffers e.g. letting air into the pump for easy drainage, I guess the drain would go OK by gravity. As a fueltransfer pump however I believe the fuel in the pump is drained via the two "k"s to the fuel collectiontank. In both modes the "k" pipes would go into the funnel you have indicated. The pipes from the funnel would end up in the fuel collecting tank. I don`t think there is a connection to the handpump. As to the luboil mainfilters I am in doubt, anyhow they should not be hooked up with the drainpipes from the "k" funnel as a filterdrain would probably be to low for gravity drain. I should leave a possible filterdrain at this point.
Tore
« Last Edit: 16 Oct , 2013, 05:06 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1548 on: 16 Oct , 2013, 12:56 »


Tore, do these just drained into the bilge?

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1549 on: 16 Oct , 2013, 13:48 »
Simon.
 Fueltank compensating water drain.
The pipes you indicates are drain for the seawater for fuelcompensation and goes to the bilges.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1550 on: 17 Oct , 2013, 01:11 »
Tore,

New layout and I have added the missing piping for the Fuel Oil Compensating System.

On plate 10, the forward pipe from the tank, is it open to the sea?

The aft pipe from the tank, where does it go? Does it goto the muffler? Valve 'E' open to the sea?

http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate10.htm


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1551 on: 17 Oct , 2013, 02:14 »
Simon.
The forward pipe of the headertank is the outletpipe open to the sea. The aft pipe is the supplypipe from the exhaustcooling coming from the aft end of the silencer. Valve "e" is the draincock/valve of the exhaustpipe going to overboard.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1552 on: 17 Oct , 2013, 13:41 »
Tore,

In these three photo

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1553 on: 17 Oct , 2013, 14:23 »
Simon.
I am not sure if these pipes are the drains from the headertank.
I should think the drain and the outlet from the headertank could basically be any place within the casing and I don`t see any particular reason for having the end of the pipe flush with the casing side. I don`t remember seeing water gushing out from the casing while the engines were running. I`ll have a closer look at my photos and let you know if I have any ideas.
Tore

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1554 on: 18 Oct , 2013, 00:24 »
Simon.
I have checked with all my photos and cannot find any confirmation of wateroutlet flush  with the casing side. I would suggest you place the outlet inside the casing and not flush with the casing side as long as we don`t have proper evidence otherwise.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1555 on: 18 Oct , 2013, 13:41 »
Simon.
I have checked with all my photos and cannot find any confirmation of wateroutlet flush  with the casing side. I would suggest you place the outlet inside the casing and not flush with the casing side as long as we don`t have proper evidence otherwise.
Tore

Tore,

I have decided to move the position of the piping for the Port and Starboard MB & RFO Tank 2.

I decided to move this section of piping because...
  • As it reduces the total length of the piping by about 2 m.
  • It makes the piping simpler as it does not need to go around the aft battery hatch.
  • I was able to location small deck hatches above those outlet.

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1556 on: 18 Oct , 2013, 14:03 »
If you used a 3-way valve like below and a handle you can open/closed the valve.

In the quick 3D drawing the pipe runs just under the decking and then steps down, the small deck hatch allow access to the valve, the straight through piping run even with the side casting surface, and the other pipe run to the side of the saddle tank.




Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1557 on: 18 Oct , 2013, 14:10 »
I am able to shorter the piping by about 6 m :D

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1558 on: 18 Oct , 2013, 14:16 »
Simon.
I guess this shall work  OK.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1559 on: 18 Oct , 2013, 14:35 »
Simon.
I guess this shall work  OK.
Tore

I started to more the piping for the Port and Starboard MB & RFO Tank 2 but the Blowing System for MB & RFO Tank 2 valves is in the way :-[

So, I will keep them in there original and just realign the piping a little :) 

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1560 on: 18 Oct , 2013, 14:55 »
Simon.
I guess this shall work  OK.
Tore

I started to more the piping for the Port and Starboard MB & RFO Tank 2 but the Blowing System for MB & RFO Tank 2 valves is in the way :-[

So, I will keep them in there original and just realign the piping a little :)

Below you can see why there no room with the small Blowing System for MB & RFO Tank 2 valve deck hatch.

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1561 on: 18 Oct , 2013, 15:46 »
Tore,

New layout and I have added the missing piping for the Fuel Oil Compensating System.

On plate 10, the forward pipe from the tank, is it open to the sea?

The aft pipe from the tank, where does it go? Does it goto the muffler? Valve 'E' open to the sea?

http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate10.htm



New layout  :)

Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1562 on: 19 Oct , 2013, 00:41 »
Simon.
Your new layout seems OK to me. I guess you have studied the space for the crossover up front of the conningtower there are a lot of stuff there.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1563 on: 23 Oct , 2013, 20:52 »
Simon.
The forward pipe of the headertank is the outletpipe open to the sea. The aft pipe is the supplypipe from the exhaustcooling coming from the aft end of the silencer. Valve "e" is the draincock/valve of the exhaustpipe going to overboard.
Tore

Tore, would the line going to the silencer look something like this?


Offline tore

  • Tore
  • *
  • Posts: 2,539
  • Gender: Male
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1564 on: 24 Oct , 2013, 07:03 »
Simon.
I am not sure the connection to the silencer is OK. If you look at the sketch below it could be a bit more forward not to interfere with the drains.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

  • Admiral4
  • *
  • Posts: 2,419
  • Gender: Male
  • U-1308
    • U-1308 - Wikipedia
Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #1565 on: 24 Oct , 2013, 12:25 »
Simon.
I am not sure the connection to the silencer is OK. If you look at the sketch below it could be a bit more forward not to interfere with the drains.
Tore

Just checking a few things:
    Drain for the cooling water
    • Is found under the silencer?
    • Around 40 mm size pipe?
    • Does it drain the sea water inside the silencer?

      Drains for the exhaust side
      • Are found on the side or top of silencer?
      • Why two drains?
      • Around 40 mm size pipe?
      • Does it drain the water around the silencer?

      The pipe between the silencer and valve P is found on the under side?
      What are the two arrows are the very aft end of the silencer?

      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1566 on: 24 Oct , 2013, 14:55 »
      Simon.
      Good question which made me check with the system for the Man engine. There is a difference on plate 13 (GW engines) and 13A ( MAN engines). I can`t see there is any reason for having a difference on that particular part of the system. Plate 13 GW engines, mention "o" as water drainvalves (German: entwasseren) for exhausts side (German gasraum abgassammelltg.) plate 13A (MAN) names these valves as "p" waterdrain coolingwater space silencer (German: entwassern kuhlraum) there is no reason why these two valves are different. In spite of the plates tells otherwise I would suggest the two cocks on "o"are coolingwater vent cocks  placed on the top of the silencer, cock "n" is cooling waterdrain placed on the bottom lower part of the silencer. I should say two cocks make the venting a bit more efficient. 40 mm pipes seem OK. The drain empties the coolingwater space around the silencer. The two arrows at the very far end could be for possible pressure equalising when submerged.
      Tore
      « Last Edit: 29 Oct , 2013, 13:51 by tore »

      Offline NZSnowman

      • Admiral4
      • *
      • Posts: 2,419
      • Gender: Male
      • U-1308
        • U-1308 - Wikipedia
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1567 on: 24 Oct , 2013, 15:21 »
      The two arrows at the very far end could be for possible pressure equalising when submerged.

      So they would be just open holes in the silencer or a very short sections of pipes fix to the silencer?

      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1568 on: 25 Oct , 2013, 00:19 »
      Simon.
      I guess unless we get other infos we asssume short pipes. If you look at plate 13 A and B you shall see these venting openings are drawn as coming from the exhaust side whereas on the plate 13 (GW engines) they are drawn from the coolingwaterspace. I should assume the latter is wrong and that the openings are acting more like the floodholes allowing the trapped exhaustgases to  escape.
      Tore

      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1569 on: 25 Oct , 2013, 00:32 »
      Simon.
      May be I should mention valve "e" on plate 10 which is a waterdrain for the compensating water supply line. As this line ends up halfway in the compensating water tank, the tank would not be emptied through this valve, hence a separate drain as indicated, however you got to have a valve which is not shown in this drain.
      Tore

      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1570 on: 25 Oct , 2013, 03:02 »
      Simon.
      Why all these elaborate exhaustgas ventings? If you consider the whole external exhaust system it represent a large volume. It certainly makes a big difference in weight (trim) if it is filled with gas or seawater. A possible trapped exhaustgas would upset the trim when diving hence I believe it would be necessary to have a proper venting of the exhaustgases to ensure all the gases escapes. If these ventings are not shut on the surface diesel propulsion you shall have of course exhaustgases escaping out of the vents.
      « Last Edit: 25 Oct , 2013, 09:25 by tore »

      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1571 on: 25 Oct , 2013, 09:57 »
      Simon.
      I have checked a bit further on the venting of the exhaustgas silencer and silencer valve. On the "O" class RN submarines they have a similar arrangement with no valves shown. So I  assume there are no valves in the venting and moderate amount of exhaustgases would escape possibly right above the silencer under the casing for both components.
      Tore

      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1572 on: 11 Dec , 2013, 05:06 »
       The Forum is back, very much appreciated. However it seems that about 12 pages and in excess of 150 posts have been lost in the crash, I guess it is not possible to retrieve the posts but I have of course the drawings if anybody are interested.
      Tore

      Offline Rokket

      • Administrator
      • *
      • Posts: 2,362
      • Gender: Male
      • Submarine Enthusiast
        • AMP - Accurate Model Parts
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1573 on: 13 Dec , 2013, 16:34 »
      Tore, they exist but in a file that is "poison". It's not impossible to restore them, but difficult. The restoration just to this has cost us $$$, so I don't know if we'll be able to get them safely, but they are technically not lost! Apologies.
      AMP - Accurate Model Parts - http://amp.rokket.biz

      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1574 on: 13 Dec , 2013, 23:30 »
      Thanks Wink. It is of course not worth the Money and risk to retrieve the posts. The basic materiel is available in my files. If anybody misses the last month posts let me know.
      Tore

      Offline Rokket

      • Administrator
      • *
      • Posts: 2,362
      • Gender: Male
      • Submarine Enthusiast
        • AMP - Accurate Model Parts
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1575 on: 14 Dec , 2013, 18:14 »
      You're a treasure and a gentleman!
      AMP - Accurate Model Parts - http://amp.rokket.biz

      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1576 on: 22 Dec , 2013, 23:58 »
      Season Greetings to all the friends in this forum.
      Tore
      « Last Edit: 23 Dec , 2013, 00:01 by tore »

      Offline dougie47

      • Administrator
      • *
      • Posts: 758
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1577 on: 23 Dec , 2013, 12:32 »
      Hello Tore,

      Best wishes to you and I hope you are keeping well over in Norway.

      Merry Christmas to everyone,

      Dougie

      Offline Rokket

      • Administrator
      • *
      • Posts: 2,362
      • Gender: Male
      • Submarine Enthusiast
        • AMP - Accurate Model Parts
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1578 on: 23 Dec , 2013, 18:21 »
      And to you, Tore. Thank you fr all your hard work and contributions here, it means a lot.

      Stay warm!

      Cheers,
      Wink
      AMP - Accurate Model Parts - http://amp.rokket.biz

      Offline NZSnowman

      • Admiral4
      • *
      • Posts: 2,419
      • Gender: Male
      • U-1308
        • U-1308 - Wikipedia
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1579 on: 25 Dec , 2013, 20:06 »
      Hi Tore

      Here the latest drawing of the piping in the engine room.

      Not going to be able to do any more drawing for the next month and a half :( :(

      I am just too busy working on assignments for my bachelors degree. Hope to have some more free time near the end of February.

      Merry Christmas everybody and a happy New Year
      Simon


      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1580 on: 26 Dec , 2013, 06:31 »
      Simon.
      Very good. Your absence at the Forum matches very well with my plans as well. I shall be leaving for Africa within 3weeks and stay away for a month. looking forward to return end February.
      Tore

      Offline Rokket

      • Administrator
      • *
      • Posts: 2,362
      • Gender: Male
      • Submarine Enthusiast
        • AMP - Accurate Model Parts
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1581 on: 26 Dec , 2013, 20:27 »
      Good luck studying NZ (stop in and say howdy sometime) and good luck in Africa Tore!
      AMP - Accurate Model Parts - http://amp.rokket.biz

      Offline NZSnowman

      • Admiral4
      • *
      • Posts: 2,419
      • Gender: Male
      • U-1308
        • U-1308 - Wikipedia
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1582 on: 17 Jan , 2014, 01:43 »
      Simon.
      Very good. Your absence at the Forum matches very well with my plans as well. I shall be leaving for Africa within 3weeks and stay away for a month. looking forward to return end February.
      Tore

      I see you are still alive and have not been eaten by a Lion ;)

      Hope you having in a good break away, missing the snow yet  ;)

      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1583 on: 17 Jan , 2014, 01:49 »
      Simon
      I am not yet there, leaving early next week taking my PC along, so if not eaten by a lion I shall be able to communicate ;D Snow keeps coming down forecast 0.5 meters this coming weekend
      Tore
      « Last Edit: 17 Jan , 2014, 01:51 by tore »

      Offline NZSnowman

      • Admiral4
      • *
      • Posts: 2,419
      • Gender: Male
      • U-1308
        • U-1308 - Wikipedia
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1584 on: 17 Jan , 2014, 01:56 »
      Tore, are you having a big winter so far at home? I heard they are having a hard winter in North America so far. The NZ summer here has been just average so far.
      « Last Edit: 17 Jan , 2014, 01:57 by NZSnowman »

      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1585 on: 17 Jan , 2014, 04:25 »
      Simon.
       We really didn`t have much of a winter before last week, in our area -17C up in the mountains -37C. This week we got some 70 cm of dry fine white snow which makes everything brighter in the winterdarkness you get above 60 parallel. Time to join the birds of passage to Africa! ;D

      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1586 on: 17 Jan , 2014, 14:44 »
      VIICs mainengines.
      As known to most of you the VIICs  were equipped with two mainengine alternatives, either MAN 6 M 40-46 or Krupp Germaniawerft F46A6P both had the same bore 400mm and stroke 460mm. The output and revs the same and the dimension appr. the same. The main outlook difference were to be found in the supercharging system. MAN was equipped with the so called Buchi system, an early version of the exhaust turbocharging and  GW had the Roots blower a mechanical driven supercharger clutched in at the manoeuvring place . I have seen quite a few kits for modelling the engineroom and the look of some of the engines in those kits are very strange. Down below is a sketch showing the different look of the two enginetypes.
      Tore

      Offline Capt Kremin

      • Commander
      • *
      • Posts: 273
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1587 on: 06 Feb , 2014, 13:06 »
      Hi Tore,
       
      Great work, you are a fantastic asset to the forum.
      a simple stupid question I hope, the upper and lower tower hatches.
      Could they both be dogged/locked so that they could not be opened from above?
       
      Regards,
      Jon
      "Here's Peter Jason Quill, He's also called Starlord",
      "Who calls him that?",
      "Himself Mostly".

      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1588 on: 09 Feb , 2014, 12:20 »
      Hi Jon!
       Sorry I am a bit late in answering, but I am presently in Africa and was last week in some remote area with no Internet connection. I am now in Accra and are able to communicate. Your question is not at all stupid, as you might know today it is an international standard for opening the hatches and connect a rescuevessel to same. Re the last action for trying a rescueeffort on the Kursk. In the days of VIICs there was of course no such system, but all the hatches could be opened from outside by a handwheel see the drawing below of the lower towerhatch. On photo of the tower tophatch it looks as on the museum U 995 they have removed the top hatch wheel, however you can see the a small part of the stuffing box for the spindle in the center of the tophatch. Thus apart from removing the outside handwheel the cover could only be locked by a catch inside. That catch was merely used to release the overpressure in the sub and preventing the hatch to be flung open  which might have blown the CO overboard if the hatch was flung fully open.
      Tore
      « Last Edit: 09 Feb , 2014, 12:30 by tore »

      Offline Capt Kremin

      • Commander
      • *
      • Posts: 273
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1589 on: 09 Feb , 2014, 12:29 »
      Hi Tore,
       
      thanks for the info.
       
      Regards
      Jon
      "Here's Peter Jason Quill, He's also called Starlord",
      "Who calls him that?",
      "Himself Mostly".

      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1590 on: 23 Feb , 2014, 12:35 »
      Jon's questions on the hatches recalls my memories of the procedure for opening same after a long submerging, may be 30 hours or so. On a long time submerged situation everybody except people on watch, the CO and me was in bed using minimum of oxygen. The increased CO2 content in the air made everybody panting heavily. After a strenuous day it happened that an allowance of one cigarette per man was given ( crazy ) but mostly the match would not burn anyhow. When surfacing the CO on the top ladder having a man with a firm grip on his legs, carefully put the catch of the tophatch in position, turned the hatchwheel and the hatch cracked open letting the overpressure out so you felt it heavily on your eardrums. Mostly the foul air in the compartments turned into fog at the quick pressure release before the tophatch was fully open. The overpressure in the sub was due to various air leakages and inboard venting, but mostly by using the airmotor for the outboard group exhaustvalve grinders at the moment of diving.
      Tore
      « Last Edit: 05 Mar , 2014, 04:01 by tore »

      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1591 on: 05 Mar , 2014, 01:30 »
      Falo has sheared some of his excellent photos from the Laboe U 995 showing details of the present days condition of the U 995. As we have mentioned many times before the museum version of U 995 today should not be used as reference for a correct version of a  VIIC/41 and particularly not the original U 995. I shall try ( during some time) to give some comments as to the details partly based on Falos photos. Falos photo shows a very good detail of the Kingstons (Flutklappen) for main ballast tank 3. I have seen many strange modellers interpretation of these flapvalves one is shown on the picture below. The photo shows the Kingstons shut and the nuts of the seating is clearly visible.
      As you see the Kingstones of mbt 3 opens outwards because when shut they are a part of the pressurehull in contradiction to the ballast saddle tanks 2 and 4 where the Kingstons opens inwards being not a part of the pressure hull and as the tanks are used as spare fueltanks as well. So if you want to make your model in a ready for sea execution the Kingstons of mbt 3 should be open and if there is fuel in the saddletanks the Kingstons of same should be shut otherwise open. By the way the Kingstons got the name after a British engineer Kingston who invented the valve, I guess latter part of 1890
      The other item I shall mention in my post today is the propeller/rudderguard which is missing. In this area you should include zinc sacrificing elements, this detail is very often forgotten and is an element for corrosion protection. They should not be painted but have the zinc colour, see my picture below.
      Tore
      « Last Edit: 05 Mar , 2014, 04:06 by tore »

      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1592 on: 05 Mar , 2014, 12:24 »
      In December 2012 we discussed the seawatercompensating of the saddle fueltanks, particularly the two positioned footvalve in the compensatingpipe connected either to the bottom of the saddletank or alternatively to a "compartment" directly in connection with the sea. We could not trace that "compartment". I believe Falos detailed photos have revealed the arrangement. If you see on the photo below it is a fairly large rectangular grating next to the Kingstons in port and starboard no2 and 4 saddletanks. As the very detailed photo shows the pipeopening behind the grating I believe this is the described "chamber"and the pipe is the direct seaconnection to the compensatingsystem.
      Tore

      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1593 on: 06 Mar , 2014, 05:10 »
      Some of the photos sheared by Falo shows the peculiar "hullgutters" of the museum U 995. Where the sheet plating and the saddletank fairing joins the pressurehull there are some void spaces which collect rainwaters. This obviously created some problem for the museumspeople so they made drain cutouts in the plating and to prevent rustbleeding they welded a U-shaped steelbar as gutter, see photos below. This has nothing to do with the original design of the VIIC-VIIC/41s. Nevertheless I have seen modellers making painstaking copies of the gutters which have nothing to do on a VIIC model unless it is a model of the museum U-995 of course. ;D
      Tore

      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1594 on: 07 Mar , 2014, 04:36 »
      Another of Falos detailed photos shows the "Pillenwerfer"slit and reveals a rare view of the outer cap of the ejector. The "Pillenwerfer" or ejector is a common device of a submarine. It is used for many purposes and is merely a steeltube having hinged caps in both ends and an interlock prevent the outer cap to be opened unless the inner cap is shut. The tube has a drain- and ejectingair connection. Inside is a piston having a guiderod through the inner cap. The ejector is charged with different types of canisters or signal rockets making possible for the submarine to send visible signals to the surface. A common canister used during WW2 was filled with magnesium pellets which was ejected when a submarine was Asdic hunted. As the canister was ejected the magnesium pellets came in contact with the seawater and the chemical reaction created a large amount of bubbles which gave a false echo on the Asdic. During exercises very often a signalrocket was ejected indicating a torpedo shot.
      Tore
      « Last Edit: 07 Mar , 2014, 08:17 by tore »

      Offline NZSnowman

      • Admiral4
      • *
      • Posts: 2,419
      • Gender: Male
      • U-1308
        • U-1308 - Wikipedia
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1595 on: 07 Mar , 2014, 14:56 »
      Tore/Maciek

      Oxygen system within engine room. Do you guys know:
      • Where the manifold is located?
      • Where the Exhaust Air Duct is located?
      • Where are valves 'b' are located?
      Thanks, Simon.
      http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate20.htm
       

      Offline NZSnowman

      • Admiral4
      • *
      • Posts: 2,419
      • Gender: Male
      • U-1308
        • U-1308 - Wikipedia
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1596 on: 07 Mar , 2014, 15:12 »
      Tore/Maciek

      Oxygen system within engine room. Do you guys know:
      • Where the manifold is located?
      • Where the Exhaust Air Duct is located?
      • Where are valves 'b' are located?
      Thanks, Simon.
      http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate20.htm

      I was able to find the Exhaust Air Duct on some drawing on the starboard side of the boat (can not find it in any photo's of U-995 :( ). This could suggest that valves 'b' are also on the starboard side of the boat.

      Offline SnakeDoc

      • Admiral
      • *
      • Posts: 536
      • Gender: Male
        • Torpedo Vorhaltrechner Project
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1597 on: 08 Mar , 2014, 03:17 »
      Simon,
      exhaust air duct is on the port side of the boat. Forward 'b' valve is on the forward bulkhead, on the port side of hatch, near the upper edge of the door (with blue handle). The oxygen manifold is located in the aft starboard corner of engine room - over the clutch piston is visible water trap and manifold itself. Over the hatch to electric motor room are visible two thin lines - I believe they are lines to aft torpedo room and to forward part of the boat. There is also one large pressure gauge - I think it also belongs to this system. I was not able to locate aft 'b' valve.


      --
      Regards
      Maciek

      Offline falo

      • Admiral
      • *
      • Posts: 514
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1598 on: 08 Mar , 2014, 06:20 »
      Tore you said: "although it is shocking to see what they have done to my old boat". I suppose that I now comprehend what you mean. Please look at the attached pixs. The first shows a double-page, the printed pictures displays the boat during dropping on the two fundaments in the early seventies. If you look at the bow you can recognize the torp doors and the limber holes surrounding them. If you look at my pix (as said before from 2011 or 2012) the bow looks today very basic.

      Regards
      falo








      Offline tore

      • Tore
      • *
      • Posts: 2,539
      • Gender: Male
      Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
      « Reply #1599 on: 08 Mar , 2014, 09:55 »
      Falo.
      Yes , much have been changed and I don`t understand some of the changes, the flood gates are the fingerprints of the submarine. It would not make much of an extra to put in some floodgates, they have blanked off some floodgates instead as shown on your photo. On the other hand they have put up an extra wind deflector on the radar casing which never was there on any VIIC, that cost extra and they have removed the original exhaust outlet and put in a new instead, that cost extra as well. Why if funds are short?
      Tore
      « Last Edit: 08 Mar , 2014, 09:57 by tore »