Author Topic: Uboat U-.... ? (Read 12268 times)

Pepper-mint · « **on:** 20 Mar , 2010, 11:41 »

Hello Fellows,

Yes i'm going to adopt a seven/forty-one

, but which one ?

All i decided for the moment is that :
1-i am going to build a type 7/41 as realistic and accurate as possible with all the documentation found here and there. (in the limits of my skills),
2-the general hull/camo paintings wished will be in the the NZSnowman's U-1308 style or like the pic below (i'm sure that this kind of painting/camouflage pattern has a name : "dazzle type" ?...)
exemple : U-201 / Brest 1941
3-the chosen N

Pat · « **Reply #1 on:** 20 Mar , 2010, 20:07 »

Hi Pepper.

The style of camouflage in your picture lookes like what's called "dazzle camouflage", or sometimes "splinter pattern". It was VERY common in WWI, not quite as common in WWII but still seen. (I once saw a pic of a PT-boat in stripes like that. It was quite amazing)

The idea of it wasn't so much to hide the boat, like other paintjobs, but more to "dazzle" the enemy observers so that they couldn't tell the range or how faast it was moving, which would of course, throw off their gunnery.

Sometimes it was several colours, black, grey, white, blue, green, teal, etc.

I've seen it on a lot of troopships and freighters and it was very common for corvettes and MTB's/MGB's.

NZSnowman · « **Reply #2 on:** 20 Mar , 2010, 22:43 »

Hi Pepper

Just a couple of about U-1308

U-1308 never had any camo paintings, in fact it was one of the few

Pepper-mint · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Mar , 2010, 07:30 »

Hi Gents,

Thanks for the details.

Pat, this is what i thought and all the pics i found are from WW1. The expected result from the "dazzle" painting was interesting.
A troubled view due to an unexpected camo destabilize you and make you lose time in taking decisions...

NZSnowman, your U-1308 would have been the "must have" seven/forty one U-boat for the KM ; with the well glued Alberich in bonus ! Today this kind of second skin is used for stealth properties on 30T. tanks like the bielorussian "2T STALKER"...

I have to make a choice to know what kind of radio/radar and all other particular devices where added and make the adequat research. My U-Boat must be as accurate as possible. Building this u-boat will take time, i will try not to make any mistake.

It seems to be difficult to find a Uboat with the "dazzle" paintings.

Maybe the U-307... I ike his story and his emblems

Pat · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Mar , 2010, 08:50 »

Pepper, yes, WWI was where dazzle camo was used most, but as I said, it was also found in WWII, just not as often.

Too bad I don't know where I put my research on the PT boats. I could give you the number of the one that had that pattern. It was a really different pattern, more like a zebra striping than anything.

One well known ship with such disruptive camo was KMS Tirpitz. It had black and white zigzags in the middle and the bow and stern were darker with a false bow wave painted further back to make the ship either look smaller or farther away.

U-119, a type XB, had a smaller U-boat painted on it's casing to make it look like a less tempting target.

U-141 and U-565 both had milder versions of dazzle camouflage, more like a disruptive pattern.

What about the boat in the picture you you posted? Do you know the number for it or have a picture of the entire boat?

Here's some URLs on the origins and concept of the camouflage, with some pictures of WWI and WWIII ships with the pattern. They didn't just use black and white either, but often reds, yellows, blues, greens, etc.

http://leenks.com/link254001.html

http://www.answers.com/topic/razzle-dazzle

http://ministryoftype.co.uk/words/article/dazzle/

http://gcaptain.com/maritime/blog/a-gcaptain-hallowene-ships-in-razzle-dazzle-costume/

http://www.cbrnp.com/RNP/Flower/MODELS/Sackville/Sackville.htm

http://www.shipcamouflage.com/1_4.htm

http://www.risd.edu/dazzle/

Having spent a lot of time on the water, I can attest that brilliant white colours with much darker lines on them frequently make it difficult to identify a boat a distance in bright sunshine.

Whatever you decide with it, it does make a really attractive pattern and quite the conversation piece.

Pepper-mint · « **Reply #5 on:** 21 Mar , 2010, 09:19 »

Pat,

Great...

Yes i saw the Tirpitz, and the paintings in his late version are very attractive. As wll as for the U-141 type IID and the U-565 type VIIC. (pic below)
The photo i posted is an excerpt from a 3D Uboat found on RADIO ROOM...
I ordered the mag. "U-BOOT IM FOCUS" N

Greif · « **Reply #6 on:** 21 Mar , 2010, 11:24 »

Hi Pepper, I am planning to build U307 as the uboat for my interior build project. Maybe we can trade notes! The Uboot im Focus is a very valuable resource.

Ernest

NZSnowman · « **Reply #7 on:** 21 Mar , 2010, 11:30 »

As U-1308 was the last Type VII's to be build and had Alberich (which I believe only 3 or 4 Type VII's got) I believe and I am sure the Germans were going all out with U-1308, they were planning to give her all the the newest toys like FuMT 1 Aphrodite, FuMT-2 Theti, Tarnmatte, FuMO-61 Hohentwiel-U and a Schnorchel before her first combat mission.

Also on a side note it was U-249 not U-570 with both FuMB-35 Athos & FuMO 65 Hohentwiel.

Pat · « **Reply #8 on:** 21 Mar , 2010, 22:17 »

Good picture of the camo on U-565 Pepper. I really shows off the pattern well.

One questino though. There's a white rectangle on top of the CT that I haven't seen before. Do you or anybody have any idea what it is? Is it part of the boat or is it something they're holding up?

Greif · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Mar , 2010, 02:16 »

Pat, I'm sure it is not part of the uboat. As it appears that the boat is returning from patrol, a pretty successful one considering the tonnage pennants, it might be a table describing the sinkings for that patrol or some such.

Ernest

Quote from: Pat on 21 Mar , 2010, 22:17

Good picture of the camo on U-565 Pepper. I really shows off the pattern well.

One questino though. There's a white rectangle on top of the CT that I haven't seen before. Do you or anybody have any idea what it is? Is it part of the boat or is it something they're holding up?

Pepper-mint · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Mar , 2010, 02:39 »

Hi Gentlemen,

@ Greif,

With pleasure ! Mit viel vergn

dougie47 · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Mar , 2010, 07:10 »

Hi gents,

I think the photo of the Med boat is U 81 rather than U 565. The vent holes are as per U 81. For example there are the 4 extra medium sized vents, which Vegesack boats such as U 81 had. The 25 vents on the top front row and the 17 circular holes below the 88mm are as per other U 81 photos.

The white board and pennants can be seen in other photos of U 81. The board listed all the boats they had sunk. Most of their victims were small vessels, with the notable exception of the carrier HMS Ark Royal.

Note that U 81 had a different camo scheme early in her career.

Cheers,

Dougie

Jan · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Mar , 2010, 09:35 »

Hi,

maybe U-453 would be a nice project for you, too? There is a drawing of it in Warship Pictorial No. 27, p. 44. It has a very cool camo-scheme. It is actually a VIIC, not a VIIC/41, but the differences between a late war VIIC and a VIIC/41 is not too big. Plus, according to the drawing it had a 2cm Flakvierling... I love the look of this weapon!

Greets

Pepper-mint · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Mar , 2010, 10:46 »

@ Dougie : You're the Doc' fellow

Hi Jan,

Well, why not but i will have a problem with the flakvierling... I built a 1/35 scale maybe it could fit

But : I found the book you are talking about on amazon. Is it worth the buying ? Is it a good documentation source ?
The U-boat painting on the "Warship Pictorial No. 27" cover is interesting... Do you have his code please ?
Thanks ...

Cheers,
Laurent

Jan · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Mar , 2010, 11:20 »

Yeah, the book is very good! It contains a lot of detail pics, so it is very helpful, regardless what boat you are building.

The boat on the cover is U-253.

Pepper-mint · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Mar , 2010, 11:48 »

OK Jan, book ordered on Ebay... 25$

U-253 ? -------> http://www.lifecolor.pl/a/U253-U-Boot-typ-VIIC-Revell.html
I like that one.

Cheers

NZSnowman · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Mar , 2010, 12:49 »

Quote from: Pepper-mint on 22 Mar , 2010, 02:39

"...The first U-boat to receive Alberich was U-11, a Type II coastal boat for trials on its sound absorbing properties. On April 1940, the first operational U-boat was treated, U-67 a Type IXC which was just being laid down. Thereafter, problems with the adhesive prevented further treatments until late 1944, when U-480, a Type VII was tested again using a new adhesive. The results were satisfactory enough and it was decided that all new Type XXIIIs and XXVIs would receive this coating, but ultimately only one Type XXIII, U-4709 had been completed with the coating..." pic below : snorkel with Alberich coating (from the U-3008 ?)

No, it is Tarnmatte (Radar absorbent material). You can see a picture from this the link from my topic http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=106.msg2274#msg2274

The snorkel could be from U-3008 as this deign was only for the Type XXI's.

Alberich look like this http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=106.msg1682#msg1682

Pepper-mint · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 Mar , 2010, 13:29 »

Ok i'll redo my homework.

Studying the u-boats is very complex. The german engineers were very inventive and prolific...

Jan · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 Mar , 2010, 16:07 »

Quote from: Pepper-mint on 22 Mar , 2010, 11:48

U-253 ? -------> http://www.lifecolor.pl/a/U253-U-Boot-typ-VIIC-Revell.html
I like that one.

Me too!

NZSnowman · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 Mar , 2010, 19:51 »

Quote from: Pepper-mint on 22 Mar , 2010, 13:29

Ok i'll redo my homework.
Studying the u-boats is very complex. The german engineers were very inventive and prolific...

Yes, many first for the U-boat engineers.

NZSnowman · « **Reply #20 on:** 25 Mar , 2010, 13:15 »

Hi Pepper

Another thing to think about is, are you going to add a Balkon-Ger

Pepper-mint · « **Reply #21 on:** 26 Mar , 2010, 02:25 »

Hello Snowman,

One thing is sure : i will put the S-Ger

Jan · « **Reply #22 on:** 26 Mar , 2010, 03:38 »

If you really want to build a Balkonger

Pepper-mint · « **Reply #23 on:** 26 Mar , 2010, 06:09 »

Jan it would be great !!! Thanks !

Jan · « **Reply #24 on:** 26 Mar , 2010, 09:46 »

Pas de probl

Pepper-mint · « **Reply #25 on:** 27 Mar , 2010, 04:15 »

Thank you Jan, these photos will help, for sure...

Rokket · « **Reply #26 on:** 27 Mar , 2010, 17:11 »

interesting pix!

Pepper-mint · « **Reply #27 on:** 28 Mar , 2010, 12:09 »

Hi,

I made a drawing concerning the Balkon-ger

NZSnowman · « **Reply #28 on:** 28 Mar , 2010, 22:54 »

Hi Pepper

I see also that you are wondering what the round tube is at the front of the Balkon-ger

Pepper-mint · « **Reply #29 on:** 30 Mar , 2010, 03:38 »

Well, today i'm beginning the building of my U-boot ; The U-307 with ice-scheme.

All the books i'm looking for are sold out or hidden in some good library i don't know...

Of course i will have a lot of questions and hope not to bother you with my lack of experience and sources in U-Boot history.
But you can be sure that i'll ask after making my own research

I will open a new topic.

For the Balkon-ger

NZSnowman · « **Reply #30 on:** 30 Mar , 2010, 22:47 »

Hi Pepper

Just be careful of you are looking for pictures of the Balkon-ger

Pepper-mint · « **Reply #31 on:** 02 Apr , 2010, 07:37 »

This is a pic from from U-1105. a type VII/41.

billp51d · « **Reply #32 on:** 02 Apr , 2010, 09:24 »

Pepper-Mint.... Take notice that it's behind , rather than in front of, the lower flooding vents. $:-\$
Cheers/Regards ... Bill

Pepper-mint · « **Reply #33 on:** 02 Apr , 2010, 09:53 »

Billp51d,

I don't know much about u-boats, but i think that the device is in front of the sub ; behind the flooding vents, aligned in 5 rows on U-995 / VII/41...
(clic pic below)

Cheers,
Pepper.

NZSnowman · « **Reply #34 on:** 02 Apr , 2010, 20:57 »

Quote from: Pepper-mint on 02 Apr , 2010, 07:37

This is a pic from from U-1105. a type VII/41.

I was in the understanding that this picture was miss labelled. I was believing this picture was of the prototype of the Balkon-ger

Pepper-mint · « **Reply #35 on:** 03 Apr , 2010, 09:51 »

Quote from: NZSnowman on 02 Apr , 2010, 20:57

That book is the picture from?

Warship Pictorial #27 page 63.

I'm awaiting another book with i hope more info...

Good idea for the list.

NZSnowman · « **Reply #36 on:** 23 Apr , 2010, 15:52 »

Hi Laurent

I just noted this. From this drawing below of U-1105 the Balkon-ger

NZSnowman · « **Reply #37 on:** 29 May , 2010, 16:14 »

Quote from: NZSnowman on 02 Apr , 2010, 20:57

Below is a list I started of U-boat that are known to have a Balkon-ger

NZSnowman · « **Reply #38 on:** 30 May , 2010, 22:21 »

Maybe also U-997 at VIIC/41, found some information on a Uruguay Modelling forum.

U-194 - IXC/40 - Testing of the Balkon-ger

Pepper-mint · « **Reply #39 on:** 02 Jun , 2010, 07:55 »

Quote from: NZSnowman on 23 Apr , 2010, 15:52

Hi Laurent

I just noted this. From this drawing below of U-1105 the Balkon-ger

NZSnowman · « **Reply #40 on:** 02 Jun , 2010, 13:28 »

Hi Laurent

The Balkon-ger