Author Topic: Torpedo Trolley/dolly pic pic or diagram?? 5 pics so far Major update (Read 8408 times)

42rocker · « **on:** 22 Apr , 2018, 10:02 »

We see the pics of the rails all of the time and see the statement about how the trolley was used to move the stored torpedoes around on deck to load into the pressure hull. But I have not seen a pic or diagram or any major info on the trolley. Anyone??

Later Tim

GlennCauley · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 Apr , 2018, 07:36 »

Torps were rolled on the rails.

42rocker · « **Reply #2 on:** 23 Apr , 2018, 11:06 »

Glenn
Thank You for your reply. An interesting thought. I have not seen anything that shows otherwise

I have found the following in the Design studies type IXC report.

http://uboatarchive.net/Design/DesignStudiesTypeIXC.htm

S75-3 area

""The topside torpedo handling gear varies from U.S. practice in several features. Additional deck arrangements, such as tracks and a dolly, are made necessary by the Germans' extensive use of topside stowage to supplement limited below-decks stowage. ""

I used the word trolley they used dolly in the above.

I posted a pic showing the crew working with a torpedo above deck in another topic. As to there being a dolly being used or ?? I don't know. Finding more info on this subject would be nice. Anyone??

Later Tim

GlennCauley · « **Reply #3 on:** 23 Apr , 2018, 12:54 »

https://uboat.net/forums/read.php?3,78865,78898,quote=1

42rocker · « **Reply #4 on:** 24 Apr , 2018, 07:08 »

Glenn
Thank You for that link. The part I'm interested in is the first line.
"The topside torpedo handling gear varies from U.S. practice in several features. Additional deck arrangements, such as tracks and a dolly, are made necessary by the Germans' extensive use of topside stowage to supplement limited below- decks stowage."
I read and reviewed the rest and also the other posted areas and most of it talks about how they lower the torpedo into the pressure hull. Not movement on the deck. Well someday I hope that a pic or two will show up or just a little more on the dolly. It could be 1 wheel or 2 or a 4 wheeled dolly running on one rail or two. For myself I'm guessing something like a 2 axle, 4 wheel small low dolly. There could be one under the torpedo in the pic that I posted in another topic that I posted.
Well hope that something else shows up on this sometime.

Glenn - Thanks for your input on this and also on the sharing of your work with everyone. I always look forward to your posts.

Later Tim

42rocker · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Apr , 2018, 21:33 »

Well put the search engine to work on the net. After many try's got the following pic. Credit?? Not sure who it should go to.
But if you now input U-172 in, then this is one of the pics that shows up.

Later Tim

42rocker · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Apr , 2018, 21:38 »

Well it looks like a trolley with 4 wheels (2 axles) with a turntable in the center. My thoughts, will review it some more later.

What are your thoughts on this?? Anyone??

Later Tim

falo · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 Apr , 2018, 02:02 »

Hi Later Tim,

I visited a antiquarian bookseller yesterday and by accident I saw a copy of the "Vom Original zum Modell – UBoottyp I XC" (from F. Köhler and A. Niestle). During page turning I found on page 19 or 20 a very good (half page) picture of the "Transportwagen" (transport trolley), I think it would be a good start for a sratchbuilt. The trolley has four wheels and a rotatable detent on the top.

Regards
falo

42rocker · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 Apr , 2018, 11:10 »

Hi Regards falo

I sure hope that you bought that book as it's on a lot of want lists. Thanks for that info. The details in the pic that I posted are hard to make out. Sure looks big in the pic, of course it should be to hold up under the weight of the torpedoes.
Little info here and there.

Thanks Again

Later Tim

42rocker · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 Apr , 2018, 23:28 »

Found another. Right in the front.

Later Tim

GlennCauley · « **Reply #10 on:** 30 Apr , 2018, 08:22 »

Oh SWEET!
I'm happy to have been proven wrong.

42rocker · « **Reply #11 on:** 30 Apr , 2018, 11:04 »

Glenn
I did not think that you were wrong, you said they rolled on the tracks and they do roll on the track using the trolleys.

Wow those trolleys do look big. Like someone else said, where do they store this stuff?

Well I have got a few more pics showing the "poles and tackle" that were raised into the air for the lifting of the torpedoes, to be placed on the trolleys, etc.. If anyone is interested let me know and I'll try to post them.

Later Tim

GlennCauley · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Apr , 2018, 14:07 »

I wonder if anyone would be willing to scratchbuild a trolley and then cast it... and sell it as a small kit.
It would surely make for a more interesting torpedo-loading diorama.

42rocker · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 Apr , 2018, 15:18 »

What an interesting idea.. Not I, too many things on the bucket list as it is.
If someone were to do it I hope that they would include all of the poles and block and tackle that goes with.

Wishes - well another one would be for a kit to convert the U505 as it issued back to show it after it was bombed. Another interesting thing to show. Lots more in that one.

Later Tim

42rocker · « **Reply #14 on:** 01 May , 2018, 10:41 »

Wow, Glenn the idea of an on deck (IXC) torpedo moving diorama sounds more and more interesting the more that I think of it.

Here are a few thoughts on it.
1st Deck line and up display. Use just part (1/2?) of a IXC deck. Left over (?) from a deck upgrade?
2nd Use railroad rail for the tracks to roll on. HO scale 1/87, this is 1/72, but it's close.
3rd Turn some wheels (4) on the lathe add axles and other stuff for the trolley.
4th Us 1/16 brass tubing for the poles. Need to make wench and other small items.
5th Use a cmk kit or ? ramp set up to show a torpedo going into and down the front hatch. (cut torpedo in half, cut at angle)
6th Use 2 torpedoes?, 1 on trolley and 1 going down the hatch. Or just use 1 - to show off trolley without a torpedo on it.

Of course as I sit here at a desk typing this I look down at the Trumpeter 1/48 scale sub and say why not up-size it. Do 1/48 scale?

Group Build thoughts also come to my mind.

Later Tim

Natter · « **Reply #15 on:** 05 May , 2018, 06:40 »

Quote from: 42rocker link

Found another. Right in the front.

Same situation from another angle:

Natter · « **Reply #16 on:** 05 May , 2018, 06:41 »

Loading of a G7e(TIII):

42rocker · « **Reply #17 on:** 06 May , 2018, 15:04 »

Thank You Natter for those pics. Someday should have enough info to make one that looks correct.

Here is another that I got from Dougie.

Later Tim

Natter · « **Reply #18 on:** 06 May , 2018, 17:51 »

Quote from: 42rocker

Here is another that I got from Dougie.

A little OT, but this is a very strange photo: The tool (gerät 336) mounted in the nose of the warhead is used for handling the head in a depot/arsenal (while the head is standing vertical). I don't understand why they even would have this onboard a uboat...

Could it be a US "reconstruction"?

42rocker · « **Reply #19 on:** 07 May , 2018, 17:44 »

The picture that I posted was from Dougie and I believe was taken between 11/10/1942 and 11/20/1942. So do not believe it is US made.
Interesting information however. Thanks for pointing it out.

Later Tim

David83 · « **Reply #20 on:** 21 May , 2018, 06:28 »

As far as i know the torpedos on german boats where always stored without pistol for saefty purpos .only short before the torpedos where loadet into the tubes the pistol where screwed in the torpedos .
There are some pictures around where you can see the pistol storage Containers in the forward torpedo compartment of some boats ..
br David

42rocker · « **Reply #21 on:** 21 May , 2018, 07:03 »

David83Thanks for that info. Love to get more info.
Later Tim

Natter · « **Reply #22 on:** 21 May , 2018, 15:44 »

Quote from: 42rocker

The picture that I posted was from Dougie and I believe was taken between 11/10/1942 and 11/20/1942. So do not believe it is US made.
Interesting information however. Thanks for pointing it out.

Ok. Just asking since U-505 was used for some sort of fundraising-campaign-tour in the US in 1945/46, and I though they might have displayed a torpedo like that. The photo really makes no sense...

Quote from: David83

As far as i know the torpedos on german boats where always stored without pistol for saefty purpos only short before the torpedos where loadet into the tubes the pistol where screwed in the torpedos.

Correct. The item I commented on above has no relevance in this regard though, as it's a tool solely used for (man)handling the heads while in a vertical position.There were two other "tools" as well: One lid with a lifting-eye used for lifting the head, as well as the tool used for mounting the head to the torpedo. In addition, there was a plain lid used to cover the pocket (two variants: One made of steel and one made of wood).

Inside the pocket there were a small canvas-bag with the mounting-screws for the pistol, a rubber o-ring for the pistol and spare copper-wire for the sealing of the safety-impeller.
I have attached two photos showing the plain lid (steel-variant) used to cover the pocket.

Natter · « **Reply #23 on:** 21 May , 2018, 15:57 »

Quote from: Natter

There were two other "tools" as well: One lid with a lifting-eye used for lifting the head, as well as the tool used for mounting the head to the torpedo.

Here are photos showing these tools. The first shows the simple lid for lifting the head, the second shows three pieces of the tool for mounting the head stacked on eachother (there's also a special lifting spreader for this - not showing, allowing the head to be lifted vertically, then turned to a horisontal position).

42rocker · « **Reply #24 on:** 21 May , 2018, 19:14 »

Natter I wish that I knew as much as you folks do. I'm just a learning. I reviewed the photo group that I received from Dougie and believe that I can see that item in several of the photos. I sure can tell that the photo group is from just after the Nov. 10th 1942 bombing. I going to post another pic. showing everything. Dougie if there is a problem with my posting it either take it down or let me know and I'll take it down. I'm thinking the photo was taken around Nov. 15th to 17th due to the Cap/boat log statements.
Later Tim

Natter · « **Reply #25 on:** 29 May , 2018, 13:27 »

Quote from: 42rocker

I sure can tell that the photo group is from just after the Nov. 10th 1942 bombing. I going to post another pic. showing everything.

Ok, so the torpedo in question was kept in the external storage. I guess that makes more sense, as the handles of the tool might have been useful in handling the torpedo during the loading process.News to me, thus even more interesting :-)Thanks!

42rocker · « **Reply #26 on:** 30 May , 2018, 12:01 »

Ok, should have added on the second pic, they have used the trolley to move that torpedo forward from a rear above deck storage container and are about to roll the damaged torpedo over the side. The bow area of the U-Boat did not receive damage, to speak of.
Later Tim

42rocker · « **Reply #27 on:** 19 Jun , 2018, 14:23 »

In reply #7 falo said that on page 19 or 20 etc
Well it's page 19 in the Uboottyp IXC book - Vom Orginal zum Modell by Fritz Kohl & Axel Niestle. A great pic of a Torpedo trolley I might add.
Many Thanks for all of the help on this.

Later Tim

42rocker · « **Reply #28 on:** 06 Jul , 2018, 09:33 »

More good pics are in
"UBOOTWAFFE Marine - Kleinampfverbunde 1939 - 1945 by Waldemar Trojca - pages 407 & 408

Major update on this - Would you believe almost every torpedo loading pic on a type IXB or IXC is using a trolley. Look close at the pics. You do not see any support rails / bars or whatever going out to the sides for support like in the type VII boats where the crew had to set one up. Look again and you might see the wheels. Look at the 4 rails that the torpedo sits on. Of course where would you store this? Well there was a lifeboat/rowboat in the back just under the deck also. So still looking for more info.

Later Tim

Natter · « **Reply #29 on:** 06 Jul , 2018, 09:53 »

Quote from: 42rocker on 06 Jul , 2018, 09:33

More good pics are in
"UBOOTWAFFE Marine - Kleinampfverbunde 1939 - 1945 by Waldemar Trojca - pages 407 & 408

I'm looking for this book, but it's rare (and expensive...) :-(
Anyone happen to have a pdf of this?

42rocker · « **Reply #30 on:** 06 Jul , 2018, 14:41 »

Natter
I've seen a couple for a lot less money. I bought mine called "new", shipped to me for just under $60.00 US. I'll check for more. As far as pdf, the book has a lot of pages in it. Heavy little thing also.

Later Tim

Just did a search on ebay and found a couple at $115. shipping $22 to $46 to US from Germany.

Natter · « **Reply #31 on:** 07 Jul , 2018, 02:02 »

Quote from: 42rocker on 06 Jul , 2018, 14:41

Just did a search on ebay and found a couple at $115. shipping $22 to $46 to US from Germany.

Yes, thanks. I found a a couple of german bookstores that offered it for about $130 incl shipping, and ordered one from there (I have a huge library with virtually all books and other materiel published on the topic of torpedoes and midget submarines, but missing this one until now... :-/ ).

42rocker · « **Reply #32 on:** 07 Jul , 2018, 07:55 »

Natter
Do you have the book

The German U-Boat Base at Lorient France: August 1942-August 1943: Volume Three by Luc Braeuer ?Or any of his books in this series? Looking to find more pics of the U-505 as it comes back to Lorient after it was bombed on Nov 11t, 1942. Or an pics of its repair or an pics of that time.

Later Tim

42rocker · « **Reply #33 on:** 07 Jul , 2018, 07:58 »

Natter
Should have added Trojca's book has a lot of material on midget subs. Lot's of pics and pages.

Later Tim

Natter · « **Reply #34 on:** 07 Jul , 2018, 08:08 »

Quote from: 42rocker on 07 Jul , 2018, 07:58

Should have added Trojca's book has a lot of material on midget subs. Lot's of pics and pages.

Yes, hence my interest in it ("regular" uboats isnt of particular interest to me, besides their armament) :-)

Natter · « **Reply #35 on:** 07 Jul , 2018, 08:10 »

Quote from: 42rocker on 07 Jul , 2018, 07:55

Do you have the book

The German U-Boat Base at Lorient France: August 1942-August 1943: Volume Three by Luc Braeuer ?Or any of his books in this series? Looking to find more pics of the U-505 as it comes back to Lorient after it was bombed on Nov 11t, 1942. Or an pics of its repair or an pics of that time.

Yes, I have all of Brauers books as far as I can tell (+ most/all of Rösslers Uboat-books and several more). I'd be glad to check them out for relevant photos, but currently most of my library is packed down due to refurbishment going on in my office...

Natter · « **Reply #36 on:** 07 Jul , 2018, 08:54 »

As mentioned, I have a huge library (ca 30000 books). I'm in the prosess of making a proper inventory, but it's going very slow - especially as I'm adding more books than I'm able to register (I've spent an average of almost $7000 on books for the last 10 years or so :-/ ).

Anyway: I did a quick search and found some uboat-related titles (some are probably not relevant, and I'm sure I have more) which I put it in the attached list. Unfortunately, I was not able to include author/publisher/ISBN etc.I can't browse all of these of course, but if there's a couple of books you might suspect have relevant info, I can check when I have an opportunity (and if the book in question is readily available...).
PS: In addition to books, I have of course a lot of scanned WW2 archive-material from US, german, british and norwegian national and other archives/museums, including about 2000 german handbooks/manuals, and about 3 million pages of other (mostly) german stuff; for instance about 3000 digital copies of NARA RG242 microfilm rolls, including the (probably) close to complete surviving records of the U-boot KTB's.

42rocker · « **Reply #37 on:** 07 Jul , 2018, 09:55 »

Natter
My wife and I have as part of our other businesses, a small bookstore and we don't have 1/3 as many books as you do. Wow that many. Having a spreadsheet on everything is a good idea, we don't. At home while I have a good library on the subjects I work with I would guess it's under a thousand books. Up to about 25 on subs so far. Most tec, no general reading stuff in the sub area yet.
If you find anything on the U505 from the bombed period Nov 11th, 1942 till repairs are well underway I would be very interested. I'm also looking for pics drawings info on the material between the pressure hull and the deck. For the U505 before it's rebuilt. U505 IXC, launched 24 May 1941.
Also of course the torpedo trolley as I'm thinking of trying to build a nice detailed large scale one. Bucket list item. LOL

Later Tim

Natter · « **Reply #38 on:** 20 Jul , 2018, 02:03 »

Quote from: 42rocker on 07 Jul , 2018, 07:55

The German U-Boat Base at Lorient France: August 1942-August 1943: Volume Three by Luc Braeuer ?Or any of his books in this series? Looking to find more pics of the U-505 as it comes back to Lorient after it was bombed on Nov 11t, 1942.

I digged out the book and had a look. Although U-505 is mentioned several times throughout the book, I can't find any photos of it.

David83 · « **Reply #39 on:** 21 Sep , 2018, 11:19 »

Hello All

i found a good picture of the Torpedo Pistol transport box .
the guy are carring it .
br David

Natter · « **Reply #40 on:** 12 Dec , 2018, 15:13 »

Quote from: David83

i found a good picture of the Torpedo Pistol transport box .
the guy are carring it .

It's one of three different containers for the conventional nose-mounted torpedo pistols - this one is used for pistols with combined mechanical/magnetic function (like the Pi2).

I'm attaching the uncropped photo (maybe taken during operation "Deadlighth" after the war?).

Natter · « **Reply #41 on:** 12 Dec , 2018, 15:26 »

Here is the container used for the mechanical pistols with ordinary whiskers (like the Pi1):

Natter · « **Reply #42 on:** 12 Dec , 2018, 15:29 »

...and the one used for mechanical pistols without whiskers (like the Pi1a, which was combined with netcutters):

42rocker · « **Reply #43 on:** 12 Dec , 2018, 19:24 »

Ok, that is an interesting carry box.

Later 42rocker