1/72 Revell Type VIIC/41

[TristanR]

Hello, I am new here!  I hope it's ok that I just jump in with a WIP thread?

Inspired by some of the fantastic builds I've seen on the internet (mainly here), I thought I would start my own.

I am not building a specific boat, I have not found a boat number that jumps out to me, maybe one will become appropriate as I progress. 

The extras I have are below, click on them for links.
nautilus laser cut wooden deck
Griffon models gun set
White Ensign Models flood,drain and vent PE
Caswell's outrageously priced Flood hole PE
Eduard's PE bits
Resin Pressure hull top
Archer decal set



This sheet for the drain holes is the closest I got to the modelbrass set I see in other builds, that I was unable to get a hold of. The forward draining holes are not triangular in the modelbrass set, but are closer to the revell pattern.

Griffon guns, nice barrell in a bag, and more PE, I hope I like doing this much PE work...


The archer decals, the long lines are welds.

Eduard Pe set, nice big pieces for the fore and aft decks.



Resin Pressure hull.  This is a little bit wonky, but for all you see of it, I bet it'll do fine.

Nautilus wooden deck.  This broke in transit, easy to fix with wood glue I think, but I'm looking into making my own.

[TristanR]

I am doing the oil canning now, I might be going in a bit heavy, but the plastic is nice and thick, I should be ok






I decided to try and install some of this PE, starting with the torpedo bay doors.

After hacking around with the dremel, I am trying to wittle away the exact shape.


Slightly too big but the step I have carved will help a lot, this nice thick plastic should add a lot of support.  The brass piece is thick, but bends easier than I thought it would.


It fits pretty well, the instructions mention using epoxy to secure the brass, which I don't have any of yet.  Superglue should do it, but that's a job for another day.


Cheers!

[iceonaboy]

Looking good 

[SG]

Hi and welcome aboard TristanR! A great start indeed! you seem fully equipped to build a great-looking model. I like the good quality shots of both the materials and the WIP you've taken. My advice is not to overdo the oil canning, as many experts here have pointed out before me after examining the pictures of the real boats. Great work with the torpedo bay doors.
Standing by for the next updates, keep up the excellent work!
SG 

[TristanR]

Thanks for the advice on oil canning SG, I appreciate the feedback, I guess it's too late for this side but I will hold back on the other side when the time comes, thanks!
I decided not to install more delicate brass bits until I'd dinged up the fusleage hull.  I'm using a dremel to make dings, just as many of you have done before.


Then I scrape over the dings with the scalpel blade to blend and make then not look like uniform dremel dings.



Finally I am sanding the result, to not make it look like I just scraped dremel dings with a scalpel.
I think this is going to take a while.




I decided to have a go at installing some of the drain hole brass. The pictures pretty much speak for themselves.  I dremelled and filed the hole, I was able to cut an effective step on the plastic to recess and hold the brass. 








It sort of worked, but there will have to be a lot of filling and sanding.  I used lots of CA glue to stick the brass in, and fill the gaps a bit.







Finally I painted on some unthinned tamiya surface primer to get started with the clean up job.  Hopefully if this goes well I will be less scared of the rear drain drain hole which look a lot more complicated.



Cheers!

[SG]

TristanR, how do you manage to bend the PE parts to obtain the desired shape? do you bend the brass parts over a jig? do you pre-heat the PEs to make them lose their shape-memory?
I like the way you carved the step to hold the PEs, very effective, and clever. Well done!

 
 

[TristanR]

Hi SG, I am not heating the brass, I've heard it helps, but I'm not experienced enought to try that yet!  I am rolling the peices on a mouse mat to get it to curve a little bit.  For the aft drain peice I am using a PE bender to help with the tighter bend.











I didn't cut the hole big enough back here, so I'm having to cut away behind it.






Also, I have a bad step around the back of this brass cheek piece, I guess there is just going to be lots of filling and sanding

Also filling the other holes to be corrected with the WEM guides.



I also found that if I turned the dremel to it's lowest speed, the burr sort of skips accross the surface giving a fairly uniform (and quick to do) hammered effect, the high speed just cuts it, a combination of the two should bear fruit.  Mainly I'm looking to create a surface that washes can follow when I get round to painting.







Cheers!

[SG]

TristanR, you've done a fantastic bending work with the aft drain PE! Perfectly reshaped and fitting beautifully.  Am sure the filling/sanding process on the fore torpedo tube doors will turn into a major victory
On standby for further progress

[TristanR]

Hi SG, It's not fitting perfectly but it's good enough.  The scary part is that the drain hole PE from sub-driver is really expensive...I was looking for the PE vents for these doors, but there isn't any!  That's because these are the saddle tank doors that hinge inward, at least I think they do, if anybody knows for sure let me know! Anyway, I started drilling them out.




 The White ensgign brass kit includes drilling templates for the bow vent holes that are apparently more correct, so in they go.  For the slots I drill out either end, dremel out the back so the plastic is thinner,  and then carefully file the middle out, finally cleaning up with a flattened roll of sandpaper.  seems to work ok, but I think I removed the brass teplate too quickly on the front most slots, and they are a bit wonky :/

It's also a good job I got those Archer rivets because there ain't any left on this part of the model now!





Also finished opening up the saddle tanks flood doors, still needs a bit of cleaning up.


Cheers!

[TristanR]

Since I am doing the other side now, it's not going to make for interesting posts, apart from this side has an anchor well. 
I did think I would try and document the entire torpedo door process, lots of very similar pictures to follow.

Bending.  Too scared to try annealing!  The other side worked out ok without it so I'm going to stick with what I know, plus I bought this bender tool that I should use!

[/size]

Step2, using a piece of 6mm tape to keep the top of the PE level as I find the right spot.





Step3, after careful consideration, marking the plastic to be cut.





Step4, Using the dremel with the cutting bit I try to create a step in the plastic.





Step5, Since the brass goes right up against the rear of the kit's torpedo door opening, I file a step into the middle span to help seat the brass.  Don't want to cut too deep so no dremel.





Step6, Place brass in  recess, after lots of cutting and measuring, I mark the plastic and brass for placement when I glue it





Step7, I dremelled to deep, the brass sits too recessed, I don't want to have to fill it so I installed thin strips of plastic to make the brass flush





Step8. Apparently the anchor recess is supposed to come forward with the new shorter doors I have.  Not sure I care..





Step 9, Glued in, using medium (green) zap z gap filler Ca glue.  I have debonder at the ready





Step 9a, I have an unpleasant lump in the lower brass, I think it's a lump of ca glue under it





Step 9b, I'm removing plastic from the back of the lump so I can tease it back into shape





Step 10, Added more glue, after it's gone off I do the first round of sanding.





Step11, First round of Filler, I'm using Tamiya putty.





Step12, First sanding of filler, I'm begining to see where to problems are.








Step13, Second round of filler. You can also see I've used styrene rod to fill the upper drain holes





Step14, after a sanding, first coat of paint. Now I can really see how well/badly it's working





Step15, a light sand to see where the high points are...





Step 16, using the bif tamiya file I grind off brass from the high ridge to the back of the piece, you can see how shiney it got





Step 17, Third Filler, made a little applicator, I'm trying to get an even layer of filler over the whole area





Step18, sanding





Step19, second paint layer. a bit too thin though.





I am probably 2 more rounds of filling and sanding away from final, but this post has gone on long enough.
Cheers!

[billp51d]

   TristanR.... Not only quality workmanship, but great step by step photos.
                   Excellant "tutorial" says it all.. Hats off to the new guy!
          Regards.. Bill from Delaware, USA..

[SG]

TristanR,
thanks for the excellent tutorial, i totally agree with Bill!
You are right about the saddle tanks kingstons or Flutklappen, they open inwards. The Kingstons were very well covered in Tore's thread, pages 174-175, here on the AMP forum:
http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=921.2595
http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=921.0;attach=6847;image
You can take some more modelling inspiration at Siara's U-552 blog:
http://u-552.blogspot.it/2008/11/saddle-tank-vents-take-2.html
Cheers, SG
 

[TristanR]

Thanks Bill  and SG, And thankyou for the info on those doors, very helpful!
I'm trying to decide which exhaust option to go for, there are two on the white ensign PE sheet.  I think I am going for this one, although, I realize I might be painting myself into a corner down the road as I still have not chosen a boat number yet. I do like this exhaust the best.  I think I read somewhere (probably here) that these exhausts are for earlier boats?



Also I have to drill out these small slots. drilling either end is easy, but getting the middle isn't.




So I make a little flat roll of tamiya 800 sanding paper, and run it through with tweezers until the inner bumps are gone





Cheers!

[SG]

TristanR,
just in case you havent done it already, you can check THE Reference Book "the Wolf Pack: A collection of Uboat modelling articles" here on the AMP site: http://amp.rokket.biz/docs/the_wolf_pack_compr.pdf
It's about time you pick up the real boat to represent in order to choose the various details on your model
Cheers
SG

[TristanR]

Thanks SG! I have skimmed those docs, but it was very useful to go through them again.  I think I want to use this exhaust, maybe to an arctic paint job (or once had), have have a boat that was generally around for a long time.  Going through all the boats on uboat.net trying to find one that fits, and has an interesting emblem. Like U-300 which had an owl. I am open to suggestions!

I've been stalled a bit recently, now that the hull halves are modified I think I can stick them together, but first I need to fix the torpedo tubes.

These are the kit's bulkheads, the one on the left is for the torpedo tubes.



You can see that the instructions have this piece hold all the open door parts too, and a ledge that this bulkhead slots nicely into.



Unless you filled those ledges with tons os superglue...



Also, the brass cheeks shorten the torpedo openings in the hull, which means that even if that kit piece did fit, it's tubes would need extending.



Anyway, I'm going to have to build something to hold some nice aluminum tubes I have for the torps, and if it can some how involves lasers, than so much the better.

Looking at these internet plans, the pressure hull is quite far back, so the tubes extend quite a ways forward from it. Maybe I can make something that attaches to the next bulkhead, that extends forwards and holds the tubes. This structure could also serve to support the aftermarket resin pressure hull top that I got.



One of the great sub builds out there is this one by Glenn Cauley, who also included his pressure hull plans, which I have modified slightly to hold my tubes
http://www.travel-net.com/~gcauley/U673/

After lots of faffing about on the computer, I have snuck into the laser cutter with more basswood.  I added tabs and slots wherever I could so it holds together by itself, sorta.



Although I don't need them I wanted to see how good a match to the kit bulkheads I could make, not bad but not perfect.


Also my torp tubes are a little off.



Assemble in three sections, the front and rear sections will glue directly onto the kit bulkheads, and the middle section just drops in between them.











Well I have a list of changes to make, in particular to shave off the top of all these bits to support the resin deck (that I forgot about)

Cheers!

[billp51d]

TristanR...
    It may be a good time to consider verticle structures, gussetts, baffels, etc. that are viewed
through the flood holes along the side of the length of the boat. They don't have to be acurate
but they break up the "see through"when both halves are assembled. Then again... You've probably already considered this. Just my "Two Cents".
     Bill in Delaware..

[TristanR]

Thanks Bill, I had totally forgotten about those baffle peices, I'm getting eager to stick the hull together, and that's the type of thing I don't want to forget!  Thanks again for your help! I guess I need one for both the foreward and aft drain holes.

[TristanR]

The Nautilus deck is very good. The plank width is a little big, but maybe there is a practical reason for that I've not discovered yet. Laser cutting has to be just so, else you torch your wood, or don't cut all the way through.

These viic/41 boats had a planked deck, whereas the earlier boats had a slotted one.  There are way more images of the slotted deck than the planked one, but the internet does deliver eventually. I just realized the bottom image is from a type IX boat which also has a planked deck with a snorkel...





The Laser I'm using has two modes, 'Raster' and 'Vector'.
Vector, is what you'd think a laser cutter would do, it lasers shapes out of material, it's amazing to watch. 
Raster, is engraving/etching, and works like an old ribbon printer. the cutting head scans left to right and scorches a design, working from the top of the image to the bottom. It's less amazing to watch, but effective.

I must credit Nautilus for their approach to creating the deck, using a mixture of vector cutting and raster engraving. I'm going to go the same route.
After carefully measuring the kit deck, I'm using Adobe Illustrator and attempted to re-create the kit deck's planks layout. I am considering the Eduard photo etch kit in the design, and just trying to make something that looks to scale.

The material is Basswood, more robust than balsa it has a fine grain. It seems to come in 24"x4" planks from the model shop, (which is why you have to split the deck), in a variety of thicknesses.  Nautilus' uses 1/16" which looks to be a good match for the kit deck, I'll try that and 1/32".

These test cuts were done on 1/32, pretty flimsy stuff and easy to burn.

I'm cutting jigsaw style lugs into the two halves, so the lock together on the kit, and also creating a footprint for the conning tower that will sit on top of the deck and further hold the two deck halves together. I had to be careful to leave material to hold all the hatches so they don't fall out when cut.  Easy to forget this when working on the computer.

Below is the pattern. Red is the vector cut pattern, and Blue is the raster part. I'll engrave all the blue first, then send in the red cutter. The Red line has to be a 'hairline' to invoke the laser cuttter, there is a thickness or 'kerf' to the laser itself, something like 0.001".  But that can vary depending on how much power you send to the laser, and how fast it moves.  I've already done some experimentation with that.
Blue on the other hand works way more than a printer, it can vary intensity based on the strength of the blue, again depending on power and speed settings. 

Hopefully  this week I will get some time to run some trial cuts and see if it fits.



This is a closeup of the design. You can see that long blue lines engrave the planks into the wood, then by cutting a dashed line over the engraved line, it sort of simulates the cross planks. Just as in the nautilus deck.

[billp51d]

  TristanR...
       "Ready to join halves" .. You're going to want to mount this "beauty" when
        complete. It might be wise to consider how.. What i've seen on this forum
        is the practice of glueing/epoxying a nut in keel. Never cared to secure
        anything metal in this fashion. I prefered instead to C/A a piece of square
        plastic to one half of the inside keel (adheres better than metal). Join the halves,
        then drill and tap through the bottom. Better yet, if you use "heli-coils)
             " I sure miss working in a machine shop. 3-d printer was a plus"
         BILL
         
         
     

[TristanR]

Thanks Bill, again you raise another excellent point that I have not thought about at all!  I like your idea of heli-coils ( I had to google them)  They are a type of self tapping thread?

Also I would love to hear any suggestions for a boat number to assign to this model , I'd like to do an arctic paint job, but cannot find much reference to actric /41s.


I'm spending a small fortune in basswood now (luckily it's only $2 a sheet).  This pressure hull is three sheets, and I'm on the fifth revision!  Each revision lets me tune the sizes to it fits better with each one.




I had to make an allowance for the periscope recess, which is the styrene tube half way along this middle section.


The forward section is getting busier, it has to hold a few baffles and so on that might be seen through the flood holes. Kind of looks like a klingon dagger or something.



In place you can see how the baffle fits. I cut it separatle in case I needed to move it around, but I think it fits well enough that I can make it part of the main spine piece.


From the front. I still need to mount the torpedo doors.



Along the top, I will cover this with styrene.


Better check the deck still fits.


I think I have the kit bulkheads matched too, so I can use these wood ones instead that don't go all the way to the top.



Now the bad news.  I'd like to show the hatch that sits in here, but awesomely, the hatch falls exactly on top of the bulkhead sandwich of important structure. bugger.


Here is where the hatch should be.



Also, the is another torpedo loading hatch right here... Oh great that also goes through the other structural bulkhead.



AND, my periscope allowance is to far forward...



I can live without making these changes I suppose, but the big one is that the middle section here is too short by about 4 mm. Dunno how that happened but since I have to fix this I might as well make the other changes, it would be cool to be able to open those hatches.



Cheers!

[billp51d]

 
  TristanR...
     I mentioned "Helicoils" only because I had a large selection at the shop I worked
     at. They are used to put steel threads into soft material, aluminum, plastics
     and even wood. You can probably get away with just drilling and tapping the
     plastic ( as long as it's thick enough ). I mean how many times are you going
     to want to dismount the model from the base ? Plastic threads should suffice !
     B.T.W. progress and workmanship impressive !!
           Regards, Bill in Delaware USA

[billp51d]

 TristanR..
     Here is a list of boats from u-boat.net assigned to arctic waters..
     May be of some help...
   
     http://uboat.net/flotillas/11flo.htm
 
    Bill

[falo]

Hi TristanR,

thanks for that great report here.

There is a full color scheme in "U Boot in Focus" #4. It is called "U 307 the north sea boat with the ice scheme". Drawing scale is 1/100. U Boot in Focus labeled the scheme as "an unusual camouflage".

Regards
falo

[falo]

Hi TristanR,


just in addition: Please follow this link to a german forum, this guy built U 307 and used the mentioned color scheme from "U-Boot im Focus":


http://www.modellboard.net/index.php?topic=30803.0


Regards
falo

[pumpjet]

TristanR

What kind of laser do you have?? Who makes it??

Bob

[TristanR]

Hi Bob, the Laser cutter is an Epilog Helix 60 watt CO2 laser.




here's a video of it in action.  It has 2 modes, engraving and vector cutting.  It's not mine they have one at work.  It's also very powerful, to cut this 1/16 basswood I generally have it set to 10% power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=10&v=dMdoz3XDX_0


Hi Falo, Thankyou very much for the information and links to u-307, I have ordered u-boot im focus #4, depending on what exhasut and schnorkel it has, i think I may have found my number!  Thankyou very much!


Thanks Bill, since you mentioned mounting I have been investigating on how I want to mount it, which has led me into display cases too, another thing I have not investigated before, thanks!

[TristanR]

Also, Maybe you guys can help me with another issue,





I am trying to work out how the saddle tanks blend into the main pressure hull, in the shot above you can clearly see a step in the foreground between the saddle tanks and the main hull, yet a bit further back, you can see on the startboard side that it looks as if the step is gone and the saddle tank blends straight into the hull?  Cross sections I've seen on plans also show that sometimes there is a step and sometimes there isn't.  So my question is, does anybody know the details of how the saddle tanks attach to the pressure hull, and how far this step extends?

[TristanR]

Version 5 of the pressure hull, trying not to take up more than 3 basswood planks. 






I have incorporated a little shelf to suppost the horizontal brass pieces that sit accross the torpedo door opening, it sort of fits ok, but not 100% yet.





I made a holder to support some tube for the position of the torpedo loading hatch, the angle is 28 degrees, which is a guess.










The rear bulk head now has a tube holder for the rear loading hatch, in case I want that open.

[billp51d]

     TristanR.... Definately "Arctic Boat" U-601
 

 

[SG]

TristanR, first of all congrats for the excellent progress.
I sense you're already familiar with these three shots, anyway that's the best I could find to help you. I hope they help somehow.
(notice how grossly the pics were retouched at the time )
Keep up the excellent work!
SG

[TristanR]

Thanks SG I had not seen those images yet.  Very useful thankyou.  Looking at them it seems that there is a section where the saddle tanks blend directly into the pressure hull around the conning tower, but both fore and aft the sadle tanks appear to have a step.  I have one more hull revision to do, so I will incorporate those steps I think.  Thanks again!

Bill, Is U-601 a /41boat? I can't quite tell if the deck is planked or slotted, but it does seem to have the dual wintergartens of the /41 boats...  Were there some none /41 boats that had /41 style wintergartens?  It is certainly artic though!

[billp51d]

TristanR..
     Here is a list of boats from u-boat.net assigned to arctic waters..
     May be of some help...
   
     http://uboat.net/flotillas/11flo.htm
 
    Bill

TristanR....  Actually U-601 was only a "Type C", but if you look at the list
                 in the link, I'm sure you can find a Type '41..
                 I just sent the photo of the "deceased bear" as interesting..
Bill

[dougie47]

Hello Tristan and Bill,
In the photos of U 601 the boat has a slotted deck and a Turm II, both of which make it unsuitable for your build.
You might consider U 278. Although it was a VIIC (not a VIIC/41) it did have a planked deck, Atlantic bow and Turm IV tower just like the model kit you are using. It served in the Arctic, having what looks like Dunkelgrau 51 on the upper hull and also Dunkelgrau 51 on the lower half of the tower. On the upper half of the tower (above the spray deflector) it looks like white.
Cheers,
Dougie

[SG]

Looking at them it seems that there is a section where the saddle tanks blend directly into the pressure hull around the conning tower, but both fore and aft the sadle tanks appear to have a step.

Indeed!


PS:  U 278 heading to Narvik to surrender, 1945
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/U-278_without_B-24_Liberator.jpg

[TristanR]

Thanks for in the info guys, so far I have been looking just at /41 boats on places like uboats.net, but I am intrigued by U-278, which is listed as just a viic boat.  Are you saying it's visually identical to the /41 from a model point of view?
And also, are there any lists of other viic boats that have the same /41 upgrades? 

[TristanR]

Version 6...Main difference is that I added more support to the saddle tanks.  While I was at it, I added some slots to the bulkhead pieces so you can slide the styrene sheets in place that will skin the top surface, you'll see further down.

I did a soldering!  for no reason other than I wanted to try it, I soldered a rod onto these tube door PEs.

As I added more and more support to the pressure hull, the torpedo tube's height has risen and risen, I was having to push the whole thing down into the hull. I eventually lowered the whole front end 6mm untill it sat right.  Took a lot of boring adjustments tht I am glad to have behind me.  I added the PE tube doors in the open position, even though the outer doors will cover them.



I started looking at skinning the pressure hull, here with 0.1mm styrene, this will not be thick enough for the real thing. For that I will use 0.5mm that will be more rigid.  You can see the slots that along the sides that holds it in place over the bulkheads.

The 0.5mm styrene needs forming, otherwise, it just wants to return to flat styrene, and looks bad.So here I found a cardboard tube (that airbrush booth filter were delivered in) which happens to be the same diameter as the pressure hull. I'm cutting the correct sized piece then taping it to the tube. Then it's in the oven for 10 mins at 275 degrees F.
Took a few goes, an important step is to let the styrene cool completely before un-taping it.  If you take it off as soon as it comes out the oven it's still half liquid and bends all over the place.A side benefit is that you get the underlying texture of the tube, I can always sand it down, it's similar to the work I did on the hull and might weather well.
This is the result so far.  I really hope to stick the bloomin' hulls together soon.

I found this image of - I think U-505 - surrendering, it's one of the few colour photos around of a uboat, so I thought I'd try and think about emulating it on this boat as a possible paint scheme.  Maybe this is a bit too much.

[dougie47]

Hi Tristan,
 
Yes, that is right, from a modelling point of view the VIIC and VIIC/41 will look the same.
 
It has long been thought that the Atlantic bow was exclusive to VIIC/41s but there are several photos which prove this is not the case. The link to the photo of U 278 posted by SG is a good example. The boat is a VIIC but has the Atlantic bow.
 
Your model will have a planked deck and Atlantic bow. For the discussion below the dates below are the launching dates. The colour photo below is very useful because it shows all four boats with different arrangements. Taken in Hammerfest on the 30th July 1944, it shows - from right to left - U 997, U 278, U 711 and U 362.
 

 
Firstly, the Atlantic bow. The Atlantic bow is on U 711, launched on 25/06/42. It is not on U 362, launched on 21/10/42. So we can see that it was implemented on launched boats as early as June 1942 but in boats launched in other shipyards the Atlantic bow had yet to be implemented by October 1942. It probably was implemented on all launched boats by around December 1942.
 
Secondly, the planked deck. The slotted deck is on U 711, launched on 25/06/42. The planked deck is on U 362, launched on 21/10/42. From other photos it appears the changeover from slotted to planked took place around the autumn of 1942.
 
Note: In the photo U 362 has planked deck and no Atlantic bow. U 711 has the slotted deck but does have the Altantic bow. Very confusing, I know, but this illustrates that the bow and deck changeovers were completely independent of each other.
 
Conclusion - To conclude, I reckon you should choose a boat (either VIIC or VIIC/41) launched in December 1942 or later so you can be sure it had both the Atlantic bow and planked deck.
 
Schnorchel - We can't forget that your model will have the snort. This is an additional complication. If you have a look at the photo above, taken on 30/07/44, U 278 doesn't have the snort yet. It was fitted at a later date (probably soon afterwards) but may not have retained the camo scheme above.
 
U 997 is in the configuration you want and did serve in the Arctic. You can also be sure of the colour scheme from the photo above so you might consider this boat for your model.
 
Regarding colours, the photo of U 805 after surrender shows extensive rusting, which you don't tend to see on VIICs.
 
Cheers,
 
Dougie

[TristanR]

Thanks Dougie, for taking the time to explain this,  unfortunatly I have more questions!
Regarding the Snorkel, I see some boats with extra piping around the Conning tower that the snorkel plugs into.  There is also a Pipe that is just above deck level on the starboard side, that is probably for the exhaust? 

It would seem to me that the exposed piping would suggest a retro-fitted snorkel, whereas the ones without piping (like u-995) were more sophisticated, factory fitted snorkels which had the piping under the deck, is there any evidence that this is the case?

I would like to have the exposed piped snorkel, U-1023 seems to have this setup.

U-997 could be an option too, but I don't think it had a piped snorkel, and I don't want an all dark gray scheme... Isuppose I could chip the dark grey away exposing an older arctic scheme underneath? 


Did they ever do this, or was all the old paint removed before the new paint was applied?

Sorry for more questions!  Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to reply, I bet you've all answered these questions many times on here...

[dougie47]

Hi Tristan,
 
More questions is fine, happy to help if I can.
 
There are folks on here who are more knowledgeable on the snort than me. I thought that the piping on the starboard side of the deck was on all VIICs and VIICs with the snort. Can anybody else identify a boat with a snort but no piping on the starboard side?
 
I know there is U 995 which presently does not have the piping. However, I think the piping was there at the end of her Norwegian service. I presume that when the deck of U 995 was replaced (around 1970 or so?) they did not replace the external piping on the starboard side.
 
Also of note is that U 995 was launched without a snort but I am not sure when U 995 got the snort.
 
U 997 got the snort in March 1945 and would, I think, almost certainly have had the pipe on the deck. The old paint wasn't removed so you could chip away the dark grey to expose lighter grey underneath. You wouldn't want to overdo it though (the towers of VIICs did not peel away as badly as the IXs).
 
I do have one possibility for you. U 1058 had a weathered medium grey upper hull but had what looks like a white tower. The issue here is you would have to change the magnetic compass fairing at the front of your tower to the stand alone Askania type.
 
Cheers,
 
Dougie

[NZSnowman]

Regarding the Snorkel, I see some boats with extra piping around the Conning tower that the snorkel plugs into.  There is also a Pipe that is just above deck level on the starboard side, that is probably for the exhaust? 

It would seem to me that the exposed piping would suggest a retro-fitted snorkel, whereas the ones without piping (like u-995) were more sophisticated, factory fitted snorkels which had the piping under the deck, is there any evidence that this is the case?

The Schnorchel exhaust outlet pipe is located between the Exhaust Gas Blowing manifold and carries the exhaust gases to the Schnorchel hinge arrangement. This section of pipe follows the conning tower casting for the most part below the decking, though a small section is found above  the deck next to the starboard side of the conning tower casting. This section above deck is approximately 1,900 millimetres (6 ft 3 in) in length and the pipe has a diameter approximately 150 millimetres (5.9 in).

The explanation why this section of the piping is found about the deck is that it was necessary to take the pipe over the Exhaust Gas Blowing manifold which is also located in the same area next to the Conning Tower casting.

There has been some uncertainly if this section of pipe above deck is found on all Type VIIC's. It is believe to be absent on some Type VIIC's with a Schnorchel. My research indicates that this section of piping is found on all Type VIIC's with a Schnorchel. This uncertainly is probably due to U-995 (Type VIIC/41) as in its current configuration this pipe is absent. Nevertheless, it can be seen in its original configuration on page 147 of U 995: Das Boot von dem Marine-Ehrenmal in Laboe by Eckard Wetzel. Most plans or drawings illustrate this section of piping very poorly and it is very easily missed or misinterpret.

[dougie47]

Hello Simon,

Nice top hear from you and hope all is good with you.

Many thanks for all the info. Superb drawings as always.

Cheers,

Dougie

[TristanR]

Thanks Dougie, I take you point on the heavily chipped paint being more of a IX thing, I shall likely move away from that idea (I'm not sure I could pull it off anyway!), besides paint is a long way off at the rate I'm going...

Many thanks for the information on the snort piping, NZSnowman. I have been enjoying your project of schematics, I am considering whether to try an include all the plumbing work on the pressure hull, which is now very close to installation.  Once installed I still have to skin the saddle tanks before I can do anything else.  I left the styrene in the oven for a bit too long which left me with an interesting texture, sort of like cast metal.









So I think I'm understanding that the exposed starboard exhasut pipe should be present on all snorkelled U-boats, but after a look around, the port intake pipe, as seen on the middle boat here (u-1058) seem to be less consistant in it's appearances, I wasn't able to find a good explanation of this.





Thanks for all the help guys!

[NZSnowman]

The Schnorchel air inlet piping is location on the port side of the Type VII's and carries clean air to the Main Air Inlet Trunk line. The Schnorchel air inlet piping either runs outside of the conning tower casing (STYLE 2) or found under the decking (STYLE 3).

STYLE 2 - ABOVE  DECK
This is the most common style that is found in the wartime photographs. This style was installed up to autumn 1944. The Schnorchel mast was fixed with a half height pressure flange. From the pressure flange the air intake pipe was lay out under the spray deflector along the outside of the port side of the conning tower.



STYLE 3 - BELOW  DECK
This was the final design for the air inlet pipe, and in this design we see the majority of piping under the decking. The inlet is now part of the schnorchel hinge arrangement. The pipe exits the port side of the schnorchel hinge arrangement with a section of curved pipe extending past the side wall of the deck approximately 220 millimetres (8.7 in). An opening in the side decking cast has been cut out 700 millimetres (2 ft 4 in) × 320 millimetres (1 ft 1 in) to enable for the bend. The remainder of the air inlet pipe weaves around the drive shaft for the radar aerial and the piping for the blowing of Tank 2 & 4.

[TristanR]

Thanks Snowman, that's very useful, I feel like I have a very good idea of how this all works now. 
[/size]
I was hoping to share some pictures of a hull that is glued together, but instead here's more work on the pressure hull area.

Originally I had expected to continue the saddle tanks curvature inwards into the pressure deck.  So I cut out these shaped strips to cover the inner saddle tank tops.






After some cutting and fitting, I made the changes to incorparate the step in between the saddle tanks and the pressure hull. As far as I can tell this is not far off.  Once it's all stuck in a bit of filler should tidy it all up nicely.




[/size]







The toped tubes have been a constant pain.  Somewhere the inner hull is getting forced up but some thing I couldn't find for ages. This would force the tubes too high in relation to the hull openings.  After a lot of sanding of any possible snag, it now just about sits right.




[/size]Now that the inner hull is done I spent some time on the wintergarten deck.
The Nautilus one, whilst excellent, requires you place it on top of the kit's existing plastic deck, doubling it's thickness.  It's probably completely fine to do that, but I wondered if I could replace the kit part with wood, which is what I have done here.  Although more authentic, it will need to be reinforced, and raises the question of how to attach the railings, perhaos I can CA a brass strip around the edge of the wood, and solder the rails to that.






Cheers!
[/size]
[/size]

[SG]

Great work with those saddle tank tops! Once puttied and sanded it will be just like the real thing. Am happy you are near to a solution for the torpedo tubes trouble either.
The idea of the brass strip + soldered railings sounds promising, but consider that the heat could melt or deform the plastic underneath the brass strip if you solder the railings after you have attached the strips to the outer wintergarten and "bandstand" edge. My advice is to do a feasibility study first.
Congrats for what you have achieved so far, top notch ability and thinking, am standing by for further progress!
SG
 

[dougie47]

Hello all,
 
Following the recent discussion on choosing late war boats on this thread I've written an article "Late War Type VIIC & VIIC/41 Configurations" which is available for download at -
 
http://amp.rokket.biz/lib_uboats.shtml
 
This covers some of the subjects discussed in this thread, including how the Atlantic bow appears to be on over 170 VIICs. The last section tries to help modellers choose an individual late war boat (not an easy task) and how to mix and match the Revell kits to depict certain boats. Included is a table listed all VIICs and VIIC/41 in order of launch date, which shows the year long overlap when both VIICs and VIIC/41s were being launched.
 
Cheers,
 
Dougie
 

[SG]

Just one word: Outstanding!
I think I am going to study tonight
A thousand thanks Dougie and.. Bravissimo!
 

[falo]

Hi Dougie,


I quite agree with SG. Read the leaflet last night and a lot of questions were answered.


Thanks for that work!


Regards
falo

[dougie47]

Thank you gentlemen.
 
Cheers,
 
Dougie

[OldNoob]

Amazing thoroughness! Makes my brain hurt

[TristanR]

Thankyou Dougie for that document.  Incredibly helpful and detailed information there,
One question about the atlantic bow. I had just assumed that Revell used the same (non-atlantic) hull mould for both Viic and the viic/41, as the bow really does not seem that flared to me on the kit I have.  Is this not the case?  It's hard to tell for photos.
Meanwhile,
I thought I'd take a break from the hull, and attempt the photoetch guns for the wintergarten.  Instead of glueing  them together I am going to try my hand at soldering.

I am following Paul Budzik'f excellent tutorial on soldering, So I have some acid flux, some 50/50 lead solder (supposed to flow better and be stronger than 60/40), a syringe to apply the flux, brass shaving to clean the iron tip and the iron itself.



Here you can see the gun shield in the top left, before I decided to display it folded postion. In the foreground, are the tiny hinges that hold the three parts of the shield together.  I built each half of the hinge around a 0.4mm rod, and then propped them the the 90 degree open position before putting a teeny blob of solder in there to fix them in this position.  After this, I cut the hinges off the rod and soldered them on to the sheild parts, holding then in the folded position. This was too fiddily to take pictures of .



here are some other shots of various different bits being taped to the basswood to hold whilst I solder them in place.

Here is a rod that a foot rest is attached to


I cut a notch in the wood to hold this box-with-wheel onto part of a rod.



I couldn't work out how to hold the barrel dead square with the gun body, so I used CA glue instead.  It fell off so I tried again.  I found a slot in a basswood offcut that held the barrel nicely, then surrounded the gun body in other bits of wood until I was sure it was straight.  It wasn't, but fortunatly I just heated up the solder and pulled it off and tried again.



It's not going anywhere now. (soz for blurry)


Eventually it's done. I don't think it's a tidy as it could be, we'll see when it's painted.

The worst part about soldering is when you don't get good heat trasfer, this happened a lot, and I still need to work out exaclty why.  I think it's a combination of dirty tip, and the tip being too small to get the heat over to the brass.  When it does work it is like magic though.
Also, if I used metal tweezers to hold the parts they would act as a heat sink and draw heat away for the brass.  In extreme cases I would accidentally de-solder other parts that were already in place, which was extremely lame.

I feel a bit more confident in soldering my own railings now but I still need a lot of practice.






Cheers!

[SG]

Jolly Good Work TristanR!
I like your choice of representing the gun with the shield folded: so intriguing, I remember I fell in love with this configuration when i first saw that picture of U 889 surrendering with the (double barreled) 3.7 cm rigged for diving. Two pros about this configuration: a) the  main structure of the gun is more visible and understandable; b) it's seldom seen, most of the modellers prefer the shields unfolded.
Congrats for the outstanding skills in soldering, if this is your first time trying this technique then double congratulations!


Tip: to avoid de-soldering the previously-soldered joints you might try to cover them with some wet tissue acting as a heat adsorber. Siara once suggested me this technique and it seems to work fine


Keep up the great work!
   
 

[TristanR]

Oh that's a good tip about the wet tissue paper, Thanks SG!
I very nearly went with shield deployed, but this picture convinced me otherwise, it's such a cool shot with all that mass of railing with the single barrel rising out of it.


Is this the image you were talking about?  I hadn't seen it until I searched just now. I like the shield at that canted angle, looks great!

[SG]

Yepp, that's exactly the one!
I like the other picture too! the boat has already been stripped off of one of her twin barrelled 2.0 cm guns. The port 2.0 cm seems to have only one barrel: in fact the other barrel is concealed by the wintergarten railing. Notice also:
- the "half-rings" (sorry i dont know the english term for them) on top of the saddle tanks
- the chipping of the watertight containers. If you are planning to represent a weary U-boat that's a good reference picture!

[dougie47]

Hello gents,
 
There is a difference between the bows on Revell's 5015 (VIIC) and 5045 (VIIC/41) kits. In the 5045 kit Revell have tried to emulate an Atlantic bow and the kit bow does bulge out a bit. But my suspicion is that the bow on Revell's 5045 VIIC/41 kit is not as pronounced as the real Atlantic bows.
 
If you look 40mm back from the very front of the VIIC/41 kit the bow does bulge out a little bit. But when I look at the photos of the real boats it looks like the bulge is more pronounced.
 
I would be interested to hear other opinions on this.
 
Cheers,
 
Dougie

[Rokket]

really nice solder work! looking goood!

[OldNoob]

really beautiful work. 

[TristanR]

UPdate![/size]The moulding on this checks the unsatisfactory box for this kit.  Look at these propellers, they are growing extra blades.

Cleaned up the rest of the er, running gear. All filled and sanded now.


The main event was glueing the halves together. 

Building the internal structure was supposed to hold everything in place perfectly. So that glueing together would be easy. Instead it was difficult.

Because I chose to replace the 2 internal kit bulkheads with laser cut wooden ones, I can't use tamiya cement.  So I opted for CA medium. I have a lot of experience with this glue.  After the bulkheads are sound, I will cement round the hull seam in sections afterwards. 



The hard part is that I must get the torpedo tubes seated correctly immediately. the two brass peices that make the door openings were qhite thick brass.  They they were not annealed so they are trying to spring back to flat, pulling the hull halves apart with them.  This allows the the wooden torpedo section that sits in here to drop into the gap made by the hull halves not meeting along the bottom.  So I will have to quickly clamp the front together and check this before the CA dries.

Once together, the two brass baffle plates the are the floor of the tube openings are not glued in. They rest in a slot but are free to slide, so that I can yank them forward and fill up all the space in the front to minimise the gap with the sidewalls. It's hard to explain but it worked out ok, as long as the doors them selves fit, I am ok with this.


meanwhile I failed to notice that my  forward internal bulkhead was not seated correctly and was forcing the keel apart.  I break it back open on one side and smash the bottom of the wood apart.  I force it back togeher, it's still not clamping, but this will have to do, there is no going back! I have filler,  I just hope the deck fitting isn't affected.



Forward there are no problems! It fits great all the way to the prow.



Back here not so much, but nothing a session with Mr Clamp can't solve.



Unfortunately things are not great on deck. the upper parts were spayed, the rear deck piece falls straight through.  So I brace it with styrene.  My brace was too long, it bows out from the deck a mm or so.  If I can get the deck to sit snugly enough I might get away with not having to glue it down.



So I cut my brace using a thickish saw, then I glue it back together making the brace a bit shorter, I might have to do this a few times to tune it.


Up top I can start building the pressure hull bits. I'm adding tans to the saddle tanks to support the styrene piece I made. This would have been loads easier before I stuck the halves together.


I'm shimming all over the place. I but a thin strip of styrene on the wooded edges with superglue, then I can stick shims on to that with normal cement.



My clever plan for the torpedo loading hatch failed, The hatch does not line up with the deck hole.

So I ground it off,


Made a plate with a new angled pipe. (should have done it like this in the first place)


And Now my hatch will line up. I will have to dremel the hole bigger  if I want the hatch open.


A bit of sanding on the saddle tank edges and it's starting to look somewhat solid. I added some hatches and welds, it's starting to get more fun now.



Cheers!

[OldNoob]

Looking awesome!

[TristanR]

Sort of finished with the 20mm twins, I left it so they can be elevated, but this is a fragile state of affairs. I might have to glue them in position.  Stowed, the barrels face horizontally aft, and a bar is extended from the deck floor to hold them still.   Having the barrels of them facing up at odd angles looks more appealing to me though.  I did fold in one of the shield plates so they are different.
No solder here, kit parts were required so back to horrible CA glue (actually, in a lot of ways CA glue is better than soldering, my soldering at least).
Still, nice to get these out of the way

Also there is some test weathering on the deck bits, I used acrylics and they warped the wood pretty badly, so I might have to use a proper wood sealer before I use any paints.







Now I have the hull together I can start looking into dive planes and rudders etc.  All seems to be going ok.



The next big job is re-attaching the casing strips that run along the top of the saddle tanks that I cut away earlier.

I have this PE strip that does a better job of the vent holes here, so I need to carefully drill out the holes on the plastic, and stick in the brass on top.


[/size]

Around the back I've tried to remove as much material as I dare without weakening this already flimsy piece. 



Here is the result, PE is not glued on yet, I'm not sure if it's best to do it later once it's all on the boat.  I can ponder while I do the other side.



Cheers!
[/size]

[SG]

Excellent progress TristanR! 
Have you ever considered using Gator's grip glue? I'm using it successfully on my small scale project (1/400) where I just need a few diluted drops spread on the parts with a brush, but i don't have experience on the much bigger scale (1/72 ). Theoretically it should have the right bonding qualities also for gluing bigger parts. It's a very versatile glue and a valid alternative to CA and soldering; most of all is non toxic. Worth a try. For more information: http://www.gatorsmask.com/gatorglueorder1.html
Keep up the outstanding work!

[OldNoob]

That glue sounds promising, i do wonder what the shelf life is of it though.

[TristanR]

Thanks for the Glue tip, I will try that, anything that makes working with PE is worth a try!

[TristanR]

I have been busily avoiding the proper work of making the model in favour of playing with the laser cutter again. [/size]The top piece is a 'buck' to help me make brass railings, and the bottom is the wintergarten deck.

Here I have filled in a lot of holes for the watertight hatches, and a cut a slot to receive the faring on the conning tower.



And here is the assembled bucks for the lower wintergarten, whereever you see a wooded edge I will tape a brass rod to, holding the railing in place while I solder it, at least I hope that's what will happen!


close up of the upper railing buck


The bottom part of the buck is the exact same shape as the deck park.


Cheers!

[SG]

Massive, Outstanding work, the Ultra-jig! 

Well done!

[GlennCauley]

This really is a fascinating build you have going on, we are watching it with interest!

[TristanR]

Hey, Thanks guys,  Glenn I enjoy leaning all sorts of thing reading through your builds, thanks!


I am going to try 3D printing some parts out, specifically the pressure hull plumbing. My plan is to print the blue bits, which are sized to Evergreen tubes of varying sizes (white), to cut down on printing costs.  At least that's the plan!  Here are some shots of the 3D model. 

[tore]

3 D prints.
Nothing beats the 3D prints, but  it requires a substantial research to get the details correct. The main hullexhaust valves are  intricate peaces of equipment. If you just look at the outboard pipings you should bear in mind this arrangement incorporate both the main engine exhaust- and coolingwater overboard system, including the compensating water supply. The cooling water goes through the pressurehull via the coolingwater chamber of the inner exhaustvalve housing. However right outside the pressurehull is a flange for the outer main exhaustvalve, blocking the free flow of the coolingwater so this flange has to be bypassed by a pipebend.  Your excellent 3D image misses this pipe. If you really want to go into details you have in addition a number of drive rods for the valveoperation and pneumatic grinding of the valves as well as compensatingwater branch off and drain pipes. But I guess you cannot have it all.
I discussed the details of the system with Simon back in 2013 in my thread ending up with Simons excellent drawings of the system.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

The main air inlet pipe has a diameter of 550 mm and was not able to be bent into a nice curve. So the Germans cut the pipe to 30° sections.

[NZSnowman]

Air Inlet Mast

[NZSnowman]

Diesel Exhaust Output Exchange Valve

[TristanR]

Thank you Tore and NZsnowman for taking the time to respond with such great information.  I've not found much in the way of reference for the exhaust section, so it is appreciated.  I would like to get them fairly accurate including drive rods etc,  but I am probably not going to able to be super accurate, I am limited by what I have already built for the pressure hull, and I would like to use off the shelf styrene tubes for as many pipe sections as possible since 3d printing via shapeways is priced on material volume.

I got the first test print back from shapeways, just to see what the detail level and size was like.  I will make some changes based on your feedback and get another print done.  Should look good with some primer on.

[Capt Kremin]

Hi TristanR,
Have you considered using brass tubing, if you are sneaky are look round at both metric and imperial you can find very close matches. My type IX upper hull has a combination of plastic and brass tubing.
Regards
Jon

[Roel]

This is simply brilliant:) what a fantastic idea to print these!

[GlennCauley]

Have you considered marketing these as a set?   

[OldNoob]

WOW that's impressive!!. So detailed!!

[SG]

Amazing Work (still sci-fi technology to me) and 360° skills: 3D designer, modeller, researcher.
Congrats!!

[Roel]

Have you considered marketing these as a set?   

Dear Glenn, you must have supernatural powers, since my guess is all that see this thread will have the same question.
Regards,
Roel

[TristanR]

Thanks everyone,

Have you considered marketing these as a set?   

I have them up on shapeways,
https://www.shapeways.com/shops/supernashwan  I feel a bit weird selling the pipe and exhausts, since they are based one the fine research done by you guys on here.  But I couldn't work out how to put them up for free because shapeways encourages you to make a store and sell them.  Maybe when I am done I can upload the models somewhere on the AMP site for you all to download and print yourselves? 


I have them in beta until I get everything correct-ish.  The design assumes a pressure hull, so I don't know how usefull they will be to those that don't want to build a pressure hull.  I will do the hatches as a separate model, I can see them being more usefull, especially If a can get them printed with a working hinge.

Hi TristanR,
Have you considered using brass tubing, if you are sneaky are look round at both metric and imperial you can find very close matches. My type IX upper hull has a combination of plastic and brass tubing.
Regards
Jon

I havn't considered brass tubing, and I don't know why I havn't!  I will look into that, thanks for the tip!


Cheers!

[NZSnowman]

Maybe when I am done I can upload the models somewhere on the AMP site for you all to download and print yourselves? 

I was thinking about the same thing with my Balcongerät model.

[GlennCauley]

Can you recommend a good, easy-to-use FREE 3D design application to create files for common 3D printers?
I know how to use vector programs like CorelDRAW, but never used 3D.
I'd love to design a replacement keel leading edge piece, to replace the balcongerat that is not present on early U-505.   (Made one by hand, but should be nice to make a 3D printed version.)

[NZSnowman]

Glenn,

Like you have have 100's of hours using CorelDraw and wanted an easy way to make 3-D models.

I try and look at CorelCAD, Blender, SketchUp etc... Out of all of them I find that SketchUp was the easy to use. I did try Blender for a short period but found the learning curve much steeper than SketchUp. However, Blender offers huge advantages over SketchUp in photorealistic rendering, faster modelling, realistic materials and better animation toolset.

I believe you can download a free version of SketchUp or you can download SketchUp Pro for 30 days.

If you want, I should be able to make a model for you and I can upload a 3-D printer file for you once the Trimble logon is working again.

[TristanR]

Sketchup is good, but I havn't used it all that much.  I use Autodesk Maya, but I wouldn't recommend learning it for this stuff.


STL is the usual format for 3D printing, and Sketchup supports it with a plugin, OBJs also work.  Often you need another peice of software to validate the model for printing. Shapeways has this as part of their web service, you can then download the output from that, and presumably use it own your own printer, if you are lucky enough to have one.  Their service also warns you about stuff that is too thin or is comprimised in some other way. 

[NZSnowman]

Sketchup is good, but I havn't used it all that much.  I use Autodesk Maya, but I wouldn't recommend learning it for this stuff.

I have mainly stay with SketchUp because of my research and at work we use Trimble GPS’s and it a super easy workflow from the Trimble GPS’s to their 3-D mapping software to Trimble SketchUp. Also with each new update Trimble is adding more Trimble features to SketchUp

I would like to try Autodesk Maya, but it looks expensive.

[falo]

Hi Gents,

I agree with Snowman that the Blender learning curve is steep.

As a professional user of Photoshop and Illustrator (in former times using Freehand too) I start for a few weeks with Blender because a customer of the company where I work needed support. So I went from 2D to 3D. My first impression is that Blender is good choice because there is a worldwide community who provides the user with new plug-ins and updates. The interface of Blender needs getting used to (my opinion). AFAIK it exits a plug-in for printing via stl too. In addition the range of the free online tutorials is an argument, besides the fact that Blender is - like Linux - free software and will remain public domain.


Regards
falo

[NZSnowman]

I play with blender for about 3-4 weeks, I started to like it. But after this time and trying to learn by yourseft the learning was very slow. I wanted to take some nightclasses but they stop running them.

SketchUp is very easy to use, but not that powerfull, but Trimble is now starting to put some time into SketchUp and the last two versions are a lot better.

[falo]

Hi TristanR,

if you need the piping on the wooden deck besides the conning tower here is a good aftermarket set:

http://www.larsenal.com/1-72-u-boat-type-viic-viic-41-detail-set-c2x15951757

Regards
falo

[Anakin]

Hello!

I have this set waiting to assembly...  I noticed the schnorchel was bent a bit. Any ideas how to straighten it up?

-Anakin-

http://www.larsenal.com/1-72-u-boat-type-viic-viic-41-detail-set-c2x15951757

Regards
falo

[falo]

Hi Anakin,


I know these warped resin castings very well. Two methods to get the parts straight again and which helps me ordinarily to solve that problem:


1: Submerge the warped part in warm water for a while (depends on size and thickness of the part). Than take it out of the water and straighten it softly. If the part is as favored dip it in cool water. Maybe you have to repeat this method a few times.


2. Use a simple hair dryer instead of warm water and do the same procedure as described in #1.


Usually if a resin part is warped is was removed to early from the silicone moulds, so it had not enough time to cool down in the moulds.


Regards
falo

[Anakin]

Thanks Falo. I'll try it out. The water from the faucet should be enough. ( +60 degrees celcius )

Hi Anakin,


I know these warped resin castings very well. Two methods to get the parts straight again and which helps me ordinarily to solve that problem:


1: Submerge the warped part in warm water for a while (depends on size and thickness of the part). Than take it out of the water and straighten it softly. If the part is as favored dip it in cool water. Maybe you have to repeat this method a few times.


2. Use a simple hair dryer instead of warm water and do the same procedure as described in #1.


Usually if a resin part is warped is was removed to early from the silicone moulds, so it had not enough time to cool down in the moulds.


Regards
falo

[TristanR]

I got the hatch back from shapeways, sorry for the poor photo here it is with some primer on it. Miraculously, it arrived in one piece, I did have to give the wheel a blob of glue as it was getting loose.  I think I can print a 0.5mm hole running through the hinge so I can open and close, also the inside of the hatch (not the latches) was rough when primed.  I can make the galley hatch and tower hatch, but I can't find much reference for the torpedo loading hatch.  Anyone have some reference?




I did some more work on the tower parts, incorporating your feedback, I think I might make a print for the top of the conning tower, but I have very bad reference for this.  I seem the only photos I can find are of dive wrecks!

[tore]

Torpedo loading Hatch.
I Guess it is pretty much the same,  but having 4 claws.
Tore

[OldNoob]

Wow this is going to be a nice build!!
I would offer to make you a set of periscopes, but they probably wouldn't be accurate enough for your build.
www.ebay.com/itm/Revell-1-72-VIIC-U-Boat-Metal-Periscopes-set-/121833396725

[Roel]

Any updates? I am so curious as to how this is coming along These pipes just look amazing and I am very tempted to order them from shapeways!

[U-boater]

This build is absolutely breathtaking! 

Please keep the updates coming.

[NZSnowman]

Any updates? I am so curious as to how this is coming along These pipes just look amazing and I am very tempted to order them from shapeways!

I have not try it yet, but you should be able to download any of my 3-D models from the 3D Warehouse, change the format to a 3-D printer, and change the scale (as all my models are 1:1) and be able to print them.

If anyone would like to try is, let me know I can help with changing the format and scale.

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/collection.html?id=u4a2facb6-00be-441c-a5e5-ffd7a3c3549d

[Roel]

Any updates? I am so curious as to how this is coming along These pipes just look amazing and I am very tempted to order them from shapeways!

I have not try it yet, but you should be able to download any of my 3-D models from the 3D Warehouse, change the format to a 3-D printer, and change the scale (as all my models are 1:1) and be able to print them.

If anyone would like to try is, let me know I can help with changing the format and scale.

https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/collection.html?id=u4a2facb6-00be-441c-a5e5-ffd7a3c3549d

You just gave me a crazy idea... I have been working on adjusting the CMK engine which is basically lacking in accuracy. Looking at the drawings you made, maybe you can make a 3d version of it
ok ok, I am just dreaming out loud.

[TristanR]

Thanks Tore, 4 latches is good info, I'm not sure how the hinge works though, in some shots it looks like the spring runs down the tube or something?

Old Noob, those periscopes look fantastic! I would not turn down a set!

Roel, Thank you! Don't order the pipes just yet, I need to do another revision yet.

Uboater, thanks man!

NZsnowman, have you considered uploading those great models onto shapeways yourself, they look marvelous!


I have another version of the hatch here, this time with a hinge.  You can stick a 0.5mm rod into the hinge and it opens and closes. As it should.





They are up on shapeways if you want some.  This 3D printing isn't cheap!
https://www.shapeways.com/shops/supernashwan

[tore]

Conning tower hatch spring.
Unbelievable quality. The spring is a torque spring. The spring is going along the outside of the hinge shaft and the ends are secured in both ends into approx.. half the length of the hingelink to the hatch in order to get a momentum arm for the heavy hatch . May be you`ll see the system on my image below.
Tore

[tore]

Conningtower hatch.
I am afraid my suggestion above does not give much of a torque to the shutting spring unless you secure the other ends. Therefore I believe the spring is split in the center and the split ends are locked on to the hingeshaft. I guess you can see the split on the images below.
Tore

[billp51d]

TristanR... Very nice hatch... I wouldn't doubt the hand wheel turns as well..
Bill

[Roel]

Woooow, just saw the intake shack, simply brilliant:)

[TristanR]

Thanks Tore, I understand how those spring work better now thankyou, is it the same setup for the torpeddo hatch springs?


Bill, the wheel does not turn, but it also doesn't break off so easily any more!


Roel, Thanks! the intake stack is close to being done, it won't be super accurate, I am sacrificing accuracy for a cheaper print that is all in one piece.


[size=78%]I am finally putting in the slats now, my plan was to cut 2mm x 2mm squares of plastic and insert them into the slots, I have been careful not to use paint of filler so I can use plastic cement for a clean glueing experience.  [/size]
[/size][size=78%]The Trouble is, after doing the first few my assuption that they would be close to flush with the hull seems to be wrong in most of the reference photos I've seen.  It looks like they are recessed much deeper into the slot.  So I need a rethink on how I will do these now, If I set the depper into the slot there is not much to glue the top of the slat onto, and I don't want to have to custom gut each slat...[/size]

[tore]

Hatch springs.
As far as the torpedo loading hatch conerns yes the springsystem is the same. The torpedo tube hatches are of course a different story. 
Tore

[TristanR]

Thanks Tore, I will make some torp loading hatches soon.

the suppoerts are mostly done now.  Looking at them now I think they should be more recessed, it's hard to spot them in reference photos.  Maybe I just paint them very dark grey



The brass braces are helping to keep the hull sides tight onto the deck.


Began the conning tower too.  I'm going to buy some more 3D printed parts for the conning tower from shapeways.

https://www.shapeways.com/product/9TFXMUBA8/1-72-u-boat-type-viic-conning-tower-equipment?li=user-profile&optionId=59030619
[/size]
[/size]





[/size]There a various vents and drains to add in PE.


 I drilled some drain holes and glued  on a length of L shaped plastic for the drain channel, I'm a bit worried it's too big though.

[/size]

Cheers!

[tsenecal]

...

They are up on shapeways if you want some.  This 3D printing isn't cheap!
https://www.shapeways.com/shops/supernashwan

TristanR,

PM me, i would like to know what it would take to get you to do a set of the:

U-boat Hatch with hinge
&
U-boat type VIIc conning tower equipment

in 1/32 scale...
i would also be interested in the 2cm gun and the 8.8cm gun, if you ever decide to do those...

[TristanR]

Hi tsenecal, what would you expect the diameter of the hatch to be at 1:32 scale?

For the hatch, I can do this really easily and upload it to shapeways. 
I'm still working on the conning tower parts,  they are nearly there for 1:72


For 1:32 I would want to rework some parts.  The minimum thickness of the material is 0.3mm, so at 1:72 so things had to be chunkier than I would have liked, I could fix that in 1:32.

Is this for an RC kit?

It might be fun to to the guns, but I've no plans to do them yet.

Cheers!


I might do the snorkel...

[tore]

Floodingholes and gutters.
I am afraid you have fallen into the same trap as many before you, using the museum U995 as a blueprint for you model. Apart from excessive corrosion marks, which never would have been approved on an operational submarine, the museum U995 has a number of modifications added for easy maintenance and visitors securities. The L-shaped steelgutters has nothing to do with the original VIICs, they are fitted on the museum U-boat to prevent rustbleedings from the floodgates. The original fairings at the ends of the saddletanks do not have drainholes. Likewise you might notice that some of the floodgates on the casingside have been eliminated or shut by welded plates. I have been told this is for security reasons as visitors had a tendency to climb on the casingside using the flood gates as support. Unless you don`t intend to make a model of the U-995 museum U-boat, don`t copy same. The lower joining of the VIIC casing and the pressurehull is a weldingseam and not a raingutter.
Tore

[tore]

May be this images gives you a better impression of the joint.

[Roel]

I am drooling over the amazing work on the conning tower

[tore]

Tower hatch
I don`t fully understand your fulcrums of the towerhatch hinges hanging in the air. In the days before the 3D printing some clever modelbuilder made a model of a working towerhatch showing his idea about the construction as shown below. May be it would be helpful for you. I would`t copy the spring connection to the hatch as I believe the spring ends are connected to the hatch by a drilling in two "knobs" intergrated in the hatchcover.
Tore

[OldNoob]

Beautiful work. Lovin this build log. 

[tsenecal]

Hi tsenecal, what would you expect the diameter of the hatch to be at 1:32 scale?


For the hatch, I can do this really easily and upload it to shapeways. 
I'm still working on the conning tower parts,  they are nearly there for 1:72




For 1:32 I would want to rework some parts.  The minimum thickness of the material is 0.3mm, so at 1:72 so things had to be chunkier than I would have liked, I could fix that in 1:32.


Is this for an RC kit?


It might be fun to to the guns, but I've no plans to do them yet.


Cheers!




I might do the snorkel...

TristanR,


yes, this is for a 1/32 r/c type VII...  haven't decided which "version" it will be, most likely a "c", but it would be interesting to try for a "d" model...

as it sits, it is just short of 83" long, or about 210.5 cm

when i figure out what the dimension for the hatch will be, i will certainly let you know.

i do not wish to hijack your thread any further, so any new info, i will PM you.

[TristanR]

Thank you Tore, What you say makes a lot of sense regarding the addition of the gutter.  It seemed like something that would not last long on the high ocean.  Although I like the visual interest of the gutter, I think it might be a bit big, and I think I will remove it. 


Iv'e been trwaling the internet fo rany decent shots of this area, and there does seem to be something beyond a weld seem there?  for instance, this shot of 1105


  I know this has the alberich coating on it but I'm sure I have seen some thing in other shots.  It doesn't look like a gutter (or at least not an effective one judging by the stains running from it).


Here's another shot, u-201 again there is something there, maybe it's just a lip? like the the lip seem on u995 from the image you postes earlier?



Here again there is something, which appears to have stand-off for some kind of strip?  What is this?  Perhaps it was something that was hung on these areas only in drydock, for similare reasons to the gutters on the 995 exibit? Although in this shot, it seems to be a lauch party.




The reason the hinge is floating in the air like that is so the #D printer difinitely prints them separatly, so I can run a length of rod through the hinge and have it open and close.  I feel like such a dirty cheat looking at that wonderful hatch someone made!


Thankyou Old noob and Roel!


Tsenecal, yeah send me a message I will plan to make all the 3D printed stuff available in 1:32 eventually.

[tore]

Gutters and weldingseams.
When judging all the images of the various weldingseams it is understandable that people get mixed up with the museums gutters. I guess there are two main reasons for the the excessive look  of the thin plating joints between the thick pressureproof hull and saddletanks. The bow and stern are not pressureproof and consist of thin galvanized platings overlapping the pressurehull making a lapweld which visually is like a step up joint where the bow and stern are joining the pressurehull. Some of these welds are made in steps making it look like shadows of floodgates/drains.
 The other joinings are where the thin galvanic casingplates are welded to the pressurehull. If you study the images of the thin plainting joining the pressureproof steelconstructions these welds looks like a thick "sausage". These "sausages" are primarily seen towards the bow and stern as well as on the fairings fore and aft of the saddletanks.
In the early 40ties the welding technique was not as advanced as today, riveting was still common. Welding thin galvanized plates to black steel was a challenge even if Germany was very advanced in the technique. Allthough I am not a welding expert, I believe the problem for the galvanic platewelding could be the zinc which has a much lower melting point (about 900 deg. F) and a vaporization temp of 1650 deg. F.  Normal steel has a melting temp of 2750 deg F. With limited suitable electrodes they probably had developed a method of welding to avoid the evaporated zinc fumes entering the weldseams making it porous. It might be this is an explanation of the volume of the weldingseam which you only see where the thin galvanic plating is welded to the ordinary steel. Where the saddletank steelplates are welded to the pressurehull you see an ordinary weldingseam.
A general remark to the casing construction is that bow and sternsection as well as tower is riveted not welded as would be today, I believe this is due to difficulties with galvanic steel welding.
Tore

[TristanR]

Thank you again for the detailed explanation Tore!  I am going to add something here, but not gutters. I think I might carve away some material underneath this seam and make it look more like a lap joint.

Boat number.
I have been looking into what U number I can assign my boat.
I am keen to do some heavy weathering (really keen), perhaps one scheme over another that has chipped away.  To justify this and the work I have done already, I have these requirements.

*   I want a boat with a fair number of patrols under it's belt, including some long ones. 
*   At least one emblem on the boat.
*   Something that served in the north, for arctic paint scheme.
*   I like the idea of an operation deadlight boat, but not necessarily one of the well documented ones.
*   Something without many available pictures, so I can make it up a bit.
*  Planked deck,
*  Askania compass housing (maybe)
*  Schnorkel with the above deck plumbing.

My favourite right now is  U-764
http://uboat.net/boats/u764.htm

It patrolled from Brest, then moved to Bremen in sept 1944, I would imagine they'd go for a nice new arctic paint job after the move.
It had some success, including shooting down a wellington.  (I will give it a U-249 style plane emblem for that). 
I really like the Key of Bremmen emblem it has.

I can't find many pictures of the boat online of it, According to 'Diane and Peter' here's one which has the 9th flotilla swordfish emblem (I think)


There is even a published diary (which I ordered)


What do you guys think about this?

[TristanR]

Hey Jan , thank you!  Lets hope I actually finish it!

Bow thingy.


It will need some fettling to integrate it into the rest of the bow.


I attempted using little magnets for the 37mm and 20mm AA guns.  Works pretty well, and even allows the guns to solidly swivel.
[/size]




The latest version of my laser cut deck included these nice holes for the above deck portions of the schnorkel.  Unfortunately I failed to include the thickness of the conning tower walls so the holes are obscured by the tower.
[/size]

Since I have a new deck I decided to sacrifice my old one to the god of experimental weathering. I have seen this down before on Foxbat's amazing boat build on here.
First I sealed the basswood with model aircraft wood sealer.  This stuff dries instantly with no gloss or warping.


[/size]

Then a coat of XF-1 mixed with some german grey.


Then finally I sand and scape away the flat black, using sanding sticks and a curved blade.  To add some color I stain it with water color pigments (really useful for thinning paint without losing colour saturation)

[/size]
Cheers!

[tore]

Wooden deck towhawse bow hole.
The wooden deck was mostly painted very dark grey, in fact the German naval  highcommand issued an order that the Uboats should have a box of deckpaint for patching up possible light stains. The reason was possible spotting by air.
The bow towing hawser pipe had a bead to prevent chafing. Image below shows the bead as on U 995 being laid up almost 5 years without maintenance.
Tore

[SG]

Excellent progress TristanR. Neat soldering of the bow towing hawser pipe and a great weathering effect of the wooden deck. Very effective technique. I'd follow Tore's advice and darken the deck a little more to be more faithful to reality. Anyways, it's a matter of personal taste and the result you achieved is really appealing. Congrats, am looking forward to see the next series of WIP shots!     

[TristanR]

First off I removed this gutter.  Will fill the holes too.




More soldering. When I was cutting the wooden deck, I made some engraved guides for the conning tower railings. 
I just tape the .5mm rod into the grooves and leave the joint exposed, work quite well.


 I syringe some flux onto the joint, and stick a sliver of solder into it.


Apply heat and bingo!


Perfect fit.


I laser cut a solder guide thing a while ago now, but thought I'd give it a try


After the soldering It pops off, I won't be using this one, I need to used a thinner rod for the uprights, but it proves the idea of using the flat strip that surrounds the wooden deck.








I'm cutting off the fairing for the magnetic compass, I prefer the Askania.



Made little handles for the life raft container hatches.



Finally I have a little collections of conning tower furnishings on the way from shapeways.  Too keep the cost down, I'm doing all the stuff in blue as extreme detail. and all the darker stuff as a lower quality print.


https://www.shapeways.com/product/9TFXMUBA8/1-72-u-boat-type-viic-exterior-onning-tower-detail

[SG]

Clever and effective! Well done!!!

[tore]

Excellent soldering.'
I assume you have decided to go for U-764 as you have selected an early execution ( 1944) of the schnorchel arrangement. As U764 got the Schnorchel installation March 1944 as one of the earlier U boats, I guess the early schnorchel arrangement would be appropriate. Your "blueprint" shows the arrangement but one detail, what the Germans called the "Bewasserungsventil". Contrarily to the later execution of the schnorchel system, the first arrangement was a bit more complicated as the air duct and rubberpacking at the towerflange needed what the German called "bewasserung". Which means to prevent damage, the system required before the mast was lowered, to flood the airduct (220mm diam.) from the ventilation foot valvecasing to the top air floatvalve. Hence a "bewasserungsventil" ,or may be floodvalve, was introduced right before the ventilation intakevalve in the tower allowing the airpipe up to the schnorchelmast floatvalve to be flooded. the valve could be operated from the controlroom. Unfortunately I have no drawing of this valve but you got an idea when you look at my image below.
Tore

[TristanR]

CHeers Tore! I see what you mean with the diagram, I will try and get it in.
So, These lap-weldy things.  I added some strips of plastic to make these, they make a nice detail.
I am seeing a lot of scrape marks from my overdone oil canning.




It's only obvious with a glancing light, like here.


All these scrape marks are going to have to go.  I think the rivet's are oversized, but add a lot of dimension, I can't quite face scraping them off.


Meanwhile I have been doing the 3D printing thing.
You should be able to make out the 6 small magnets that will hold the conning structure on, and the deck together. If all goes to plan I should be able to remove the deck if I want to show this stuff.







The other set here contains the exterior details, not all of these are shapeways. The white prints are from another printer.
Getting a collection of hatches now.




On the left is the kit part, many ways to dress this up with PE kits and so on,  I think it's too short.
Next to that is a primed shapeways print, next to that is the taller version, unpainted.  And the one on the right is a white resin in place of the frosted stuff.




Cheers!

[tore]

Very nice.
As usual I have a few remarks. As to the rivets and canning I refer to my previous statement. Lifting/removing the casingdeck is a new and interesting detail but require a bit of research as to the U-764 execution. One thing is certain, the towercasing has an important headertank for the fuelcompensating. On my image below I have indicated the tank drawn in detail by Simon Morris. The compensating watertank is usually ignored as you don`t see many images of same.
 The exhaust outlets are designed in at least 5 different executions , the one shown on the museums U-995 is not relevant for that uboat as U 995 had the submerged execution, see images. In the exhaustsystem usually the VIIC had a sparkarrestor at the end prior to casing side. As the area is pretty cramped this sparkarrestor was eliminated in the last years and the exhaust was emitted below the watersurface and the outlet was as shown on my image the original U 995. I don`t know the execution on the U 764.
Tore

[TristanR]

Thanks, Tore, Your remarks are always welcome! 
I don't think I will have the wintergarten decking removable, so the header tank will not be seen, nice to know it's there though.
I see the spark arrestor is a kind of trough cut into the hull, is that on both sides do you know? 


I also have a question about dive planes.
below are the two options that I think I have seen around the net, the top one is reflected in the kit, but I've seen evidence that the bottom option where the planes are not connected at the tip to the wing might also be correct.
My preference is the kit version, but I've been putting off installing the dive planes because of this confusion!

[NZSnowman]

Thanks, Tore, Your remarks are always welcome! 
I don't think I will have the wintergarten decking removable, so the header tank will not be seen, nice to know it's there though.
I see the spark arrestor is a kind of trough cut into the hull, is that on both sides do you know? 


I also have a question about dive planes.
below are the two options that I think I have seen around the net, the top one is reflected in the kit, but I've seen evidence that the bottom option where the planes are not connected at the tip to the wing might also be correct.
My preference is the kit version, but I've been putting off installing the dive planes because of this confusion!

I believe the real boats had the the support cable (option 1).

[TristanR]

Thanks SG, that's settled then, I'll run cable and keep the hinge.

Meanwhile I started using the Archer rivets set.  I really agonised whether to remove all the rivets as they seem out of scale, but they help really sell the construction of a metal boat, so I'll keep em.

First I had to attach the PE fore plate.  I soldered some railing eyelets that I spotted in some reference.  I had better do it now, rather than risk melting the hull trying to solder them on after.


I'm not exacly clear on just how the rivets are laid out, so I'm going to employ some license.



I am very pleased to have these bow pieces in the rivet kit, I shudder to imagine trying to do these with a straight row and some microsol.




I am doing this piece first and then the edges, then fill in the middle.


With the top edge.


All done, it might not be accurate, but I am happy with the results.  You can clearly see the strips of film the rivets are attached too, I'm hoping they won't come out under paint.





Finally I have been texturing the pressure hull.  I am going for the effect of a pitted surface, so I have to sand back the textureing done with a small burr.
I want to make a clear difference in the pressure hull material, from the oil canned plated parts. 
Also I have scribed a channel between the saddle tanks and the top plating, I see this gap in a lot of pictures, I like how it suggests the pressure hull continues under the plating.

[tore]

Hydroplanes.
The forward hydroplanes have no connection to the outer part of the hydroplaneguards. On many drawings it looks indeed as if there is a throughgoing shaft ending up in the hydroplane guard, however the hydroplane shaft end up in a fixing point about half way into the hydroplane, I guess you`ll find a bolted accesshatch at the fixingpoint.
The aft hydroplanes are slightly different although the shaft and fixingpoint are the same there is a small connection to the guard at the outerpoint. As far as I remember it is not a support shaft and bearing at the point rather a small bar shutting the gap to prevent ropes or other objects to enter the propellerarea.
The jumping wire on the fwd hydroplane guard was removed sometimes I guess at the time when the netcutters were removed. This reminds me of an event we had near Scapa Flow when we anchored waiting for orders over the night. In the morning raising the anchor we experienced the anchorcable was stuck between the forward hydroplaneguard and the hydroplane. We had to free dive  in the cold November sea (wearing longjohns) to release the cable.
By the way I guess you have noticed that the Revell kit has placed the anchorbay in the casing somewhat aft of the real place. As it is on the Revell kit the anchor would hit the fwd hydroplane when lowered. You`ll find the correct position on the GA drawings.
Tore

[tore]

Further to my previous images of the aft Hydroplane guards I post a detail photo of the arrangement as your see quite straight forward and not intended to take up any significant forces. 

[Rokket]

Most excellent work - beautiful detail and craftsmanship.

[GlennCauley]

Meanwhile I started using the Archer rivets set.  I really agonised whether to remove all the rivets as they seem out of scale, but they help really sell the construction of a metal boat, so I'll keep em. I am very pleased to have these bow pieces in the rivet kit, I shudder to imagine trying to do these with a straight row and some microsol.

Glad that found it useful!   

[TristanR]

Hi Glenn, thanks for putting that together with Archer's, very useful indeed!
[/size]Thank you Rokket, it's getting there bit by bit!

Tore, It's amazing that you served on one of these boats, I really appreciate your input on this boat here. Regarding hydroplanes, I decided to remove the hinge, and add the jumping wire, it adds a nice bit of interest.  I did know about the anchor bay, and though about moving it forward, but I was keen to stick the hulls together so I left it... 



In order to connect to the hull, I soldered a 1/4 inch lentch of 0.5mm rod to an eyelet spare from the Eduard set (I hope it was a spare).  I drilled a hole in the hull and I can inset the rod so the eyelet is right next to the hull.  I am using EZline for the jumping cable.  Seems thin. I used a small loop of wire glued into a tiny, thin walled aluminum tube from albion alloys.  I also threaded the EZline through the pipe and glued that too.  Ezline is very stretchy.


Underneath, I haven't glued the fin-guards in yet, but there will be a big gap to fill when I do.



[/size]I sanded most of these GHC plates off, so I'm using a 1.4mm punch to stick the missing ones back on.



Also, I got my front panel to fit.  I guess I did a horrible job measuring the kit's conning tower here, because I had to remove a lot of material to get it to fit.  I sort of made up the detail based on a picture of U-249 after it surrendered.


Paint.
At some point it's going to be possible to actually paint this model...  Ages ago I bought two Kreigsmarine lifecolor paint sets, one for warships, and one for submarines.  Lots of Greys.  I dug out some Tamiya paint for comparison.


[/size]

This is a horrible photo, but Dunkelgrau, is indistinguishable from german grey, to my eye, I put a tiny square of it in the top edge of the lifecolor dunkelgraus on the top row.
XF-20 medium grey is way warmer than I thought in comparison. Schiffsbodenfarbe is a very deep green.

I think I will add some blue to German grey for the hull, and they use the darker of the two hellgraus as the topdeck, perhaps mixed with a warmer tone like the medium grey to balance out the colder tones on the hull. We shall see soon I hope.  I have some riveting amidships to attend to, but the hull is close to primer.



[/size]
[/size]

[TristanR]

Got some more 3D printing in, hope it fits well, because this stuff is getting expensive.


Test fit of the exhaust system, those 2 bars in between are just to hold the exhausts together until glued.



A test fit of the conning tower parts.



Torpedo loading hatch, I have the easing spring perpendicular to the loading pipe, the hatch opens when pinned and sits on an 10mm evergreen tube.



Also in the set are some bottle ends, snip the apart and fit some evergreen tube in between them.

[/size]
[/size]The exhaust exit port is going to include these perforated metal pipes I found, just for fun, and because I like it better than an empty hole.



It's a 3 part system, where I can swivel things around to get it all to fit.


I began more rivets!  I regret sanding all these rivets off here.  I'm tediously adding them all back on, being careful to add the rivets in line with the support struts. 







Before I can stick the conning tower together I should paint these wooden parts up, it'll be a lot harder after it's together.  Plus I need to start painting something!


I started mixing up an orange from flat red and yellow, going for a teaky look.




The colour image on the back of this book is my guide. I am washing the orange back with some flat brown,



Finally I add some black oil paint over the top and wipe it back to match the reference.  I will mask these now and glue these parts together.

[Rokket]

Really nice wood effect!

[TristanR]

Thankyou Rokket!
Primer!



Some issues, I guess I didn't micro sol enough, this rivet carrier film wasn't stuck down, but I couldn't see it when it was transparent.  Now with paint it has become a weathering opportunity maybe.


Also my rear stern deck was glue wrong, with a air bubble like gap.  Debonder needed.


Ugh it's a bit rough round here, my brasswork is a bit battered looking...


Front is nice though. Now it's painted I can see the difference in the rivets. The archer rivits are lees raised than the kit.





It's a bummer that the corners of the doors stick out.  I do have another set of doors, maybe it's ok.


On with the rust base. 




Couldn't resist getting some rust going.


I'm going to mask the cast pressure hull parts off and chip them first.
If chipping goes wrong her I'll just have the pressure hull not be chipped.
That way I can chip the forward and aft sections one at a time.



The hull colour is Tamiya medium blue with a bit of flat blue to boost it.  It looks way to light now, but when I did a Chieftain Tank recently, it got a lot darker once the weathering began.

Had some rivet casualties on the brass, oh well. Another weathering opportunity presents itself.


Here's how I'm breaking up the chipping jobs, The first quarters first.

This is probably way overboard, but that's what the chipping gods gave me.
Better do the other side before the conditions chance.

[TristanR]

I've been pressing on with the chipping part.  For the top hull, I have decided to go with good Tamiya Sky Grey.  It's a slightly warmer grey than the 'Hellgrau' or light grey in my lifecolor Kriegsmarine set.  With blue on the bottom, I don't want it too blue of a grey on the top. 
Along with rust and wood I want to keep about 30% of the paint work in warm tones to contrast the bluey hull.

Chipping begins! I have found that  doing two coats of hairspray is a critical step, one coat and you have to really work at the paint to chip it, resulting in a more scrubbed look than chipping.  It's almost like one layer of hairspray seals the underneath paint, and a second coat does the chipping.



Grey coat for the the other side of the bow, notice how a thin a layer of paint it is, just 2 or three sweeps of the airbrush.


Here the mid section has been chipped and the aft section just painted on.  I don't want to chip this part too much to I put a slightly thicker coat of grey on.

[/size]Another place where two sections meet, I will chip away the seam.



The nose is heavily chipped, maybe too heavily chipped , but there are photos of very battered looking uboats.
[/size]
 
The anchor was painted with typical orange rust. It looks really dry, not sure if it's appropriate on a sub for some reason.


I did some post shading on the hull.
The main blue is basically Tamiya Medium blue
The undercoat is 50/50 hull red and flat black.

Some postshading. Building up thin coats of the dark browny undercoat over the medium blue, I can add some different tones to the hull.
[/size]









The hull gets a lot darker towards the keel, I'm putting lots of fake shadowing around the hull, it's really obvious from underneath, but when lit from above it's a lot more subtle.
[/size]

I couldn't resist diggin out my old deck waething test.  Not bad, but the wood needs to be less yellow, and more teak like I think.


Cheers!

[tore]

Interesting,artistic and clever wheathering, a bit different from the colours I am used to. Again a word about the wooden deck. Stay away from teak the germans would not use resources to import teak in WW2. I guess the wood was mostly a type of German pine, for the uboats refitted in Norway I heard some times they used norwegian spruce. Any how as  soon as the deck got chipped, the order from the high command was clear, they had to patch up the dammage and the deck had to be very dark grey. In fact the I believe the only paintbox stored in an Uboat was the dark deckpainting in view of the planes. Not as spectacular as your wheathering but substancial better for camuflage for airplanes.
Tore

[TristanR]

Hey Tore,
I hear you regarding the decking, I've put a lot of effort into this laser cut deck, with the purpose of sanding the paint back to reveal the wood grain underneath.  Maybe i can have patches of the dark grey deck paint, but I will be sacrificing accuracy for the purposes of a flashy paint job!


To this end, I am not using U-764 as my boat number, I bought the diary and it shows a clear picture with an older magnetic compass faring. 
I am keen on U-991 now, mainly because there are no photos I can find (so I can claim accuracy), and I like the diving eagle emblem.
It was also a training boat, with one 73 day patrol, a nice long patrol where lots of lovely weathering can happen.
Finally, it was an Operation Deadlight boat, I am thinking of depicting it with the black flag of surrender.

[tore]

I guess the U 991 operated mostly on the Norwegian coast having the norwegian naval mainbase at Horten. The original paintings would probably be close to the U 995 se photo below of U 995 May 8th 1945 Trondheim. U 991 was in the days before the surrender transferred from Horten to Bergen and under operation Pledge transferred from Bergen to Scapa Flow arriving June 4th. 1945. This convoy consisted of U-218, U-530, U-778, U-875, U-907, U-991, U-1004, U-1005, U-1057, U-1271, U1301, U 1307 and U-2328. Altogether 13 U boats out of about 100 surrendering in Norway. The transfer was done by the German crews and they were indeed instructed to fly a black flag. She later was  sunk under operation Deadlight . Her only war patrol lasted about 73 days and from Kristiansand, Norway to Bergen, Irish Coast, French coast and return to Bergen a patrol pattern I have done many times on board U 995 during the months of October- December. Unfortunately for the weathering, apart from one time our fwd. stb casing was smashed, we never experienced much of a "weathering" in these waters, but as you certainly have both the skill and interest for weathering why not? Below is the last photo of U 995 under german WW2 command CO Hans Georg Hess, alongside the submarine pen in Trondheim, Norway May 8th 1945.
 As an extra, U-995`s last and youngest ever CO of a  german submarine, Hans Georg Hess interned in a war prisoncamp in Trondheim, Norway.
Tore

[OldNoob]

Beautiful work!

[SG]

Wow!!  
Well done, keep it upp!

[TristanR]

Thanks folks!
[/size]Tore, I hear you about not doing teak, Thankyou!  I think I will try and grey it out with black and raw umber, fortunately I have 11 previous versions to mess up. 
[/size]The middle one in the image below shows the un-painted wood that will be visible once I sand through.  I mixed acrylic inks in with the sanding sealer (this stuff is a must)  And successfully tinted the sanding sealer.   
I then picked out a few planks with raw umber and burnt sienna inks.
[/size]

This is before the deck gets it's black grey coating.

[/size]meanwhile, I had a go at doing some rusty effects.  It didn't go well, and the chipping was a bit soft, a bit too flakey.  I think I can do better than this, so I'm going to repaint one side first and see.
[/size]This is the before.


This time I am using AK heavy chipping effect, mainly because the smell of the hairspray is getting a bit tiresome.

I snapped this to show you what it goes on like, it's almost frothy, you have to go low pressure and high volume and it looks like this, but it dries ok, I use a hairdryer.  Two coats at least.


I wanted more opaque colour - less lilac looking, and crisper chip edges

The soft flaky edges before might have been because of water I used to thin the paint. This time I used X-20 (the acrylic one).  The first coat was straight Sky grey, put on thinly (because I was scared), maybe it looked lilac because of the dark red-brown undercoat coming through, or seen in contrast to the medium blue hull.  So I will mix a little medium grey into the Sky Grey to warm up the tone a bit.

Here is the after,



[/size]This is the other, older side, since I will repaint it, I'm going to practice some more rust. 

The technique is basically the same method you do with oils, but with lifecolor acrylics (specifically the 4 colour rust set).  You need three brushes, a flat wide one for soaking the surface, a very fine one for spotting the paint on, and finally a large clean brush .

This only works on a matt surface that hold the water, if it beads on the surface it's not going to work, I don't use any clear-coats because I am scared they will bead the water, although a flat coat might work.
So you load a postage stamp sized patch of hull with water, so it's damp.  Then immediately, with a small brush apply tiny amounts of watered down paint onto the damp surface. It will dissolve into the surface.
Next you switch to the clean brush brush, and pull down the paint spot if you want a streak.  It takes practice, but has a nice water-coulorish effect.

The overall goal is to not produce anything like a paintbrush stroke.  When you do one, you have to wash it off with the large water brush. 



I don't know this is better than oils, I have only done a bit with oils and found them kind of greasy.  I also found it hard to build up layers without having to leave it to dry for ages. 

The best (and worst) thing about acrylics is that they dry fast, so you have to work fast.  But you can build up translucent layers quicker. 

This is the newly painted side, the grey is lighter and greyer, the rust brown looks pretty good on it.


Here's an awful timelapse that I tried to make with my phone.


[/size]

[SG]

Fantastic result. The right products, a pair of blessed hands and a most clever mind. Am speechless!

[nathan211]

Tristan-
Thanks for your reply on my forum post, I just saw your build log here and am very excited to go over all the details of your process. You have done some really excellent work here and will surely help me in my build.
Great job!
Nathan

[tore]

Wheathering is appearantly close to your hearth and the skill is second to none. The look you have achieved  reminds me of the old U 995 docking in Kiel end 1960 after being laid up for some 6 years in Norway without any maintainance at all, would hardly happen in wartime. I guess the excessive pressurehull corrosion derives from that periode.
Anyhow the similarity is there and I am showing the image below.
Tore

[TristanR]

Hey Tore,
Thanks for that photo of u995, wonderful reference!


I have been going off these heavily weathered photos I found in uboot im focus. no.4.  It's a type IID of a training flotilla in the baltic sea taken in '41 '42.  Since 991 was a training boat I feel ok with copying it's weathering and paint, I have even copied the camo scheme, where it's a darker grey towards the bow and stern.







Deck weathering





I stained the deck with this sanding sealer mixed with some ink to tint it



After that I picked out individual planks with more ink.



For the weather protection, I am going very very dark grey.



Sanding next, using tape to try and mask the hatches here and there.









Looks a lot more yellow in these pictures.





Hull painting part two.


The chipping process with hairspray invariably leaves a semi gloss finish, which has been bugging me, so I'm going to repaint it with the lifecolor 'Blacks' paint set.  Interesting fact, does not include black.
[size=78%][/size]



I want to try and get this spotchy salty look from this photo.  Once repainted I will hopefully have a matt surface to do the next step.



I'm going to use dunklegrau lifecolor on a wet surface.  If the surface is glossy the water will just bead up, which is no good, you want it to soak into the matt surface.











Conning tower is almost there, I printed some periscopes that are a prefect fit into 3mm aluminum tube.  The brass rails worked out nice, it's going to be a shame to paint them.

[tore]

Your weathering is still amazing allthough you know my opinion I can not remember ever seen the wood through the dark grey/black deckpaint. A mall remark on the two "blisters" seen on the image below. If you go to my mailbox page 201, reply 3003 you`ll see my opinion of these I call "ejector drainers".
Tore

[TristanR]

Thanks on the info for the ejector drainers Tore! I keep forgetting to drill them out, since I've been doing a lot of painting.

Some small modelling progress,
I got the 3D printed side intake pipe on, I almost lines up with the schnorkel, It's a little off centre with the schnorkel mast, and a little too forward, but I think I will modify the schnorkel to fit.





There is more soldering to be done, there are 2 more guard rails. The top one is on another laser cut buck I made, it's a very difficult shape to do, as the railing is at a angle and flares out in the middle.

In the deck I cut the postions for all the vertical posts that make up this railing, I copied those positions and included them in this buck, you can see the holes underneath.  This way I can insert the brass into these holes and when it's all soldered together, it should just drop into the corresponding holes on the deck.


These rails sit just forward of the tower, and have a wires rails connected to the other railing, hense the little tabs that were spares on the eduard set.



Here's one installed, it wasn't a great fit but lose enough after a fight.


Underneath you can see how it's held bu the laser cut holes.


The heat transfer problem I've bee having with these wood bucks went away when I switched to this blowtorch soldering iron



here they are in place, that's a lot of railing. Got to do the other side now.



I've been further painting the deck, the photos are not showing it but the deck is a lot browner, and I started putting eduard little hinges on the hatches.





Did some weathering on the guns, and added whiter salt stains to the tops of the saddle tanks,


Thanks for looking!

[tore]

Trisdan.
Excellent railing,I guess the wooden deck comes out a bit too strongly, as mention before the German regulations were strict on the dark colour of the deck in view of the air surveillance.
I assume the schnorchel locking pin eventually shall be fitted.
Tore

[maillemaker]

Is the 3D model of the uboat available for download?

Great looking build!

Steve

[TristanR]

Hi Tore, I guess I was going to dodge the locking pin, but thanks to your excellent pictures, I can probably retro fit one.  As for the deck, it's going to remain fairly worn, these photographs really brighten the wood, it's actually a lot darker in real life.

Hi Steve, sorry, the 3D model isn't available.