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Author Topic: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564  (Read 6421 times)

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Offline Roel

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ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« on: 18 Dec , 2015, 06:47 »
This is probably an impossible idea, but has anyone seen this set around, I am only looking for the u-564 decals, but it seems impossible to locate these. I think they are no longer manufactured. I hope someone here has an idea. Searching eBay for the last months led me only to a sheet for other u-boats.
Thank you in advance for any suggestions!
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Offline OldNoob

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Re: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« Reply #1 on: 18 Dec , 2015, 09:53 »
Have you tried contacting Dougie or Wink or Rokket? they might be able to point you in the right direction.
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Offline Capn Tucker

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Re: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« Reply #2 on: 18 Dec , 2015, 18:47 »
The ULAD decals have been out of production for some years now. Which is sad, because they were of excellent quality. Peddinghaus has a number of U-boat decal sheets available, but quality is hit or miss. Many are oversized, and the U-564 one in particular is poorly done.
As mentioned previously, maybe someone on the forum has a line on a set.
And of course, you can keep monitoring eBay. Sooner or later a set will turn up..
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Offline DerXL

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Re: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« Reply #3 on: 19 Dec , 2015, 12:08 »
@Roel

I happen to have all three ULAD decal sets. Contact me by PM and I'm sure we can work something out.
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Offline Roel

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Re: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« Reply #4 on: 19 Dec , 2015, 15:30 »
Quote from: DerXL on 19 Dec , 2015, 12:08
@Roel

I happen to have all three ULAD decal sets. Contact me by PM and I'm sure we can work something out.
Pm sent
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cola

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Re: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« Reply #5 on: 23 Dec , 2015, 13:19 »
speaking of which...has U-564 ever had the cat with the Knight's Cross?  Every photo I've seen of Suhren's boat had the cat w/o the Knight's Cross.

Sorry if this is hijacking the thread...but I think it's on topic since ULAD sheet 1 has the cat w/o the cross (which is the sheet I have...keeping it) and ULAD sheet 2 has the cat w/ the cross.
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Offline DerXL

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Re: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« Reply #6 on: 23 Dec , 2015, 13:35 »
@cola
Good point.

Strange fact is that in the picture of U-564 in the booklet of ULAD set 2 the cat is present without cross. But the decal itself depicts the cat with the cross.
Hadn't paid attention to it before, but now that you mention it, it is rather odd.
Problem is that the shape of the cat on the decalsheet of ULAD set 1 is a bit off (compated to the picture included in the ULAD set 2 booklet).

Below is a picture of both cats...

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cola

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Re: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« Reply #7 on: 23 Dec , 2015, 13:52 »
That is a bit off...here's a pic from their 7th patrol i believe, and no cross on the cat.
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Offline Roel

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Re: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« Reply #8 on: 24 Dec , 2015, 10:11 »
Hi Cola,
I noticed that too, but it is the best decal that I have seen for portraying u-564. The one in the set 2 comes closest to the real thing, however, if you look at the real thing, the markings 3x are also white. I may try with my limited photoshop skills to scan the decal, then adjust for the different changes and print a new one. But I just don't have the right skillset and I have to draw a line somewhere. I am amazingly happy that I obtained the decal that comes closest to the real thing:)
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Offline Capn Tucker

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Re: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« Reply #9 on: 25 Dec , 2015, 20:06 »
You guys are probably thinking about U-48; it's black cat insignia did have a Knight's Cross around it's neck..
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Offline DerXL

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Re: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« Reply #10 on: 26 Dec , 2015, 00:48 »
@Capn Tucker
You're right in that the only known images of a cat with a Knight's Cross are of U-48.
The design of the cat differs to that of U-564 though.

Apart from that ULAD clearly states in their decalset that the cat with the Knight's Cross belongs to U-564, although they don't provide evidence of this. So wether this is correct is another matter.

On the other hand, of you'd display a model of U-564 on a modelling event with a cat with Knight's Cross, I hardly doubt that anyone would ever notice (except if it's a visitor of this site  ;) ). So maybe we can make a deal to keep our mouths shut when we spot Roel's model... ;D

Purely speculating now:
The first commander of U-564 was Reinhard Suhren who was awarded the Knight's Cross on November 3 in 1940.
So it might very well be that he took the emblem of the cat with him when he switched from U-48 to U-564 (in 1941).
And it might very well be that this cat sported a Knight's Cross mirroring his "master's" Knight's Cross. But that is purely speculating, as there is, to my knowledge, no photographic evidence.

The picture shown in cola's post is apparently from the 7th patrol. By the 7th patrol Hans Fiedler was the commander of U-564, who was never awarded the Knight's Cross.
So it might be that the cross was removed after Hans Fiedler took over from Reinhard Suhren.

In that case it might very well not be so wrong to depict U-564 with the cat with Knight's Cross. At least not until someone finds a picture to proof otherwise...  8)
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cola

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Re: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« Reply #11 on: 26 Dec , 2015, 07:44 »
"The picture shown in cola's post is apparently from the 7th patrol."

Sorry, I meant Suhren's last patrol...which was the 6th patrol, not 7th.  ;D
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Offline DerXL

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Re: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« Reply #12 on: 26 Dec , 2015, 07:52 »
Darn, busted !  >:(

Maybe that explains why the crew is wearing tropical (or even no) gear in the picture... ::)
The 6th patrol went to south america in the summer, where the 7th patrol went to the Atlantic Ocean in the autumn...

Too bad. But hey, there's always the "the amp guys keep their mouths shut"-option...  ;)
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Offline SG

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Re: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« Reply #13 on: 28 Dec , 2015, 05:21 »
Cola,
I think you are right about U 564 inignia not sporting the knights cross. So far, after checking all the pictures i have of U 564 showing the arching cat, I havent found evidence of the knights cross on the cat. Great of you to have noticed that!
U 48's insigna,on the contrary and as you correctly underlined already, was adorned with the knights cross after Bleichrodt was awarded the Cross in October 1940 (Below). But this is a different story..  ;D

About the Ulad decals: the one in ULAD set 2 is more similar to the original emblem in terms of shape/details of the cat and of the "3X" than the one of set 1 as you can see if you compare the decal with the picture below (Suhren on turret deck). U 564's arching cat insignia without the cross dates back at least to january 1942, when the tower hadn't been fitted yet with the wind deflector and saw no modification until the end of the famous caribbean patrol. This is certain.
 
Am not sure about the look of the emblem in an earlier stage than Jan 1942. I only found this picture (the boat has not the wind deflector) which suggests the possibility of a cross at the cat's neck in the early life of U 564 but it's way too small (even magnified) to draw a definitive conclusion:http://francois.delboca.free.fr/port/u-564.gif

My humble advice to Roel: If you are looking for total accuracy for representing U564 in the time-frame January-august 1942 I think you might want to consider to modify the insignia and cancel the cross. It depends on what stage of U564 career you're planning to re-enact. If you go for a certain photographic-documented patrol, attain to the pictures available. In any case the Ulad decal from set 2 is the best. Otherwise, the suggestion by DerXL is absolutely valid: "On the other hand, if you'd display a model of U-564 on a modelling event with a cat with Knight's Cross, I hardly doubt that anyone would ever notice (except if it's a visitor of this site  ). So maybe we can make a deal to keep our mouths shut when we spot Roel's model.. " In this case i promise I'll keep my mouth shut too ;D
A definitive answer to the question about U 564's cat having the cross or not should be postponed to the finding of further photographic evidence. Am sure that if someone in the forum happens to come across a picture showing the cat w the cross, he won't hesitate to post it and correct our current assumptions.
Cheers, SG
« Last Edit: 28 Dec , 2015, 14:01 by SG »
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Offline Roel

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Re: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« Reply #14 on: 28 Dec , 2015, 16:50 »
@all,
Thank you for all info and suggestions. I thought this would be simple and straightforward:) I will try to make the decal into a vector graphic, so I can try to improve upon it. I have some printable decal paper, so I may give that a go when I have mustered enough courage. For now still reworking the cmk engine and putting PE on the hull.
I'll post some pics again soon. Thanks again!
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Offline SG

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Re: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« Reply #15 on: 12 Jan , 2016, 09:30 »


Quote from: SG on 28 Dec , 2015, 05:21
Am not sure about the look of the emblem in an earlier stage than Jan 1942. I only found this picture (the boat has not the wind deflector) which suggests the possibility of a cross at the cat's neck in the early life of U 564 but it's way too small (even magnified) to draw a definitive conclusion:http://francois.delboca.free.fr/port/u-564.gif


I managed to find a larger version of that picture and the cat doesn't sport any cross.
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Offline Roel

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Re: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« Reply #16 on: 12 Jan , 2016, 12:23 »
SG, thank you for the confirmation! At the moment I am literally flooded with work (the sinking u-boot).... I wish I won the lottery... then building models indefinetely:)
I will for sure see if I can vectorize the decal and see if I can then make adjustments and print it on decal paper. If I can make it well enough, I'll post the results here.
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Offline falo

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Re: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« Reply #17 on: 19 Jan , 2016, 04:08 »
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Offline Roel

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Re: ULAD VIIC decals for u-564
« Reply #18 on: 21 Jan , 2016, 14:52 »
Thank you, but I was too late, I am a slow mover sometimes.
By incredible luck, I got the first set when buying a second hand unused WEM pe set for 10 euro, in the envelope, the complete set:)
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