Author Topic: U-45 WIP - Completed October 2019  (Read 105633 times)

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Offline Greif

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Re: U-45 WIP
« Reply #180 on: 15 Dec , 2010, 05:49 »
Nice work Bill.  Good idea with you fastening method for the CT!

Ernest

Offline Pat

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Re: U-45 WIP
« Reply #181 on: 15 Dec , 2010, 06:57 »
That seems completely thorough, accurate, and excellent logic. I'm just wondering about all metal deck...there was wood in the early days, and then they switched to crap wood...so why all metal pre war?

Good question and I don't know if there's a historical record anywhere to answer it.

But my guess is that in the early days, the old time sailors knew that wood such as teak was the best for making decks since it was non-slip and so resitant to rot.  But at some point after that, when navies were switching to steel from wood, they just naturally assumed that steel was so much stronger and would always be better in every application.  If they needed non-slip, they could just forge that right into the steel deckplates.

Between the wars, there wasn't much use of submarines, so that thought was kept, and the few U-boats around the Spanish coast in the 30's didn't see much (any?) action and so there were no reports of the problems with steel.

However, once WWII started, and particularly when so many U-boats were sent to Norway to harrass the Murmansk-bound convoys, it was realized that wood was still a better material for decks even on a sub.  Perhaps especially on a sub since a U-boat's deck are almost always wet.  Steel and water at below zero temperatures is a recipe for disaster, and I can't imagine how difficult it would be to use a deck gun on a deck with rapidly forming ice after just surfacing.

The reason they went to crap wood of course was that by this time in the war, teak, which comes from the far east, just wasn't available but pine was easily gotten all around the Baltic.  It didn't matter that it was didn't last very long, it was much easier to replace even than teak.  The crew could even make some repairs themselves.


Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: U-45 WIP
« Reply #182 on: 15 Dec , 2010, 08:22 »
Hello Pat,

Many thanks for your comments.  The speculation about a steel deck is certainly new to me.  I don't believe I have ever come across this before and am very interested to know more.  Perhaps you can point us to a reference or source for a steel deck on any Type VII boat?

There are some unique characteristics of U-45 mentioned in the earlier pages of this topic thread that you may find interesting including several Bundesarchiv photos from the summer of 1938 depicting U-45 at the time of her Indienststellung and prototype testing.  Being the first of the Type VIIB boats, she had a few things that none of the others had which is one of the reasons I selected her for this project, but a steel deck has never been mentioned. 

Cheers,

Bill 


bracco_n

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Re: U-45 WIP
« Reply #183 on: 15 Dec , 2010, 10:34 »
What's the status of the project Mr.Bill? Have you made any progress?

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: U-45 WIP
« Reply #184 on: 15 Dec , 2010, 11:24 »
I have started to paint the conning tower with a thin initial coat of Model Master Medium Gray (1721) applied with my ancient airbrush.  Next is to paint the conning tower deck and I am trying to determine the proper deck colour of U-45 at the time of her commissioning in June of 1938.  Black is commonly considered to be correct, but photos seem to indicate a deck colour other than black.  Maybe just a trick of light, but the deck seems so much lighter than the known black areas.  Please have a look at the photo and let me know what you think about the deck colour.

Cheers,

Bill
« Last Edit: 23 Apr , 2018, 08:34 by Mr. Bill »

Offline Greif

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Re: U-45 WIP
« Reply #185 on: 15 Dec , 2010, 13:52 »
Hi Bill, while researching my Type IIa U3 build, which I built to resemble the uboot as she looked circa 1938, I found out that uboot decks were not painted with the black coating that wartime uboot decks were.  Photos of prewar uboots bear this out, as you have seen the color of the decks are much lighter then those of wartime uboots.  I have never been able to find out, but the decks of prewar uboots may have been teak; but that is just specualtion on my part.  What I am sure of is that all prewar uboots had either unpainted decks or they may have used a clear type of preservative. 

It makes sense when you consider the several different paint variations of prewar uboats.  The Kriegsmarine did alot of testing between 1935 and the beginning of WWII to find the right color combinations that provided the best "low-vis" scheme.  I am sure they also tested ways to preserve uboot decks as they gained training experience from the mid-1930s. 

Hope this helps,
Ernest

I have started to paint the conning tower with a thin initial coat of Model Master Medium Gray (1721) applied with my ancient airbrush.  Next is to paint the conning tower deck and I am trying to determine the proper deck colour of U-45 at the time of her commissioning in June of 1938.  Black is commonly considered to be correct, but photos seem to indicate a deck colour other than black.  Maybe just a trick of light, but the deck seems so much lighter than the known black areas.  Please have a look at the photo and let me know what you think about the deck colour.

Cheers,

Bill

Offline dougie47

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Re: U-45 WIP
« Reply #186 on: 15 Dec , 2010, 14:34 »
Hello chaps,

Interesting topic. As mentioned, the black strip on the base of the tower was painted black. And the wooden deck was stained with a black wood preservative. However, I don't think they would necessarily look the same in a b&w photo - they are different materials applied to different surfaces (paint applied to steel / preservative applied on wood).

Ernest, I've looked back at pre-war Type II decks and for the most part they look the same as wartime decks. I can see a few shots that look lighter but I can find many that look quite dark. But it is possible that other lighter presevatives were used, particularly in the pre-war period for the reasons you mentioned.

The pattern of slots on U 45's deck is the classic pattern used for the VII wooden deck. If you study the following photo of U 35 -

http://www.u-35.com/photo/GrafSpee5.jpg

As can be seen, the damaged sections of the deck are wood.

Cheers,

Dougie

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: U-45 WIP
« Reply #187 on: 17 Dec , 2010, 18:45 »
Thanks everyone for your help, it has been of substantial value as usual.  After much careful consideration and some experimentation, I have selected Testors enamel Model Master Schwarzgrau '39 - '43 (#2094) for the main deck and conning tower deck colour.  When dry, it gives a nice faded black look - not really black, but not really dark gray either.  It contrasts well with black and seems to portray the overall look of U-45 at commissioning very nicely.  I think it would also work well sprayed very thin over a dark brown to depict a U-boat in service.  I considered several other colours - Burnt Umber was close, but too much brown and Aircraft Interior Black was just a little bit too black.  I tried a few custom mixes, but they all turned out poorly.

Once I get the conning tower completed, I will post some snaps so you can judge for yourself.

Cheers,

Bill


« Last Edit: 17 Dec , 2010, 18:47 by Mr. Bill »

bracco_n

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Re: U-45 WIP
« Reply #188 on: 17 Dec , 2010, 20:34 »
Can't wait to see some photos!

Offline Greif

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Re: U-45 WIP
« Reply #189 on: 18 Dec , 2010, 12:51 »
Hi Dougie, you are very likely correct.  I saw some photos of U2, U3 and U5, in the German Miltary Archives that were taken circa 1938.  The decks look very, very light and I jumped to the conclusion that all uboot decks must have looked that way prewar.  The photos were taken in Kiel harbor so those 3 uboots might have been refitting, with the decks freshly holystoned and ready for a new coat of presevative.  Thats what I get for jumping to conclusions!

Ernest

Hello chaps,

Interesting topic. As mentioned, the black strip on the base of the tower was painted black. And the wooden deck was stained with a black wood preservative. However, I don't think they would necessarily look the same in a b&w photo - they are different materials applied to different surfaces (paint applied to steel / preservative applied on wood).

Ernest, I've looked back at pre-war Type II decks and for the most part they look the same as wartime decks. I can see a few shots that look lighter but I can find many that look quite dark. But it is possible that other lighter presevatives were used, particularly in the pre-war period for the reasons you mentioned.

The pattern of slots on U 45's deck is the classic pattern used for the VII wooden deck. If you study the following photo of U 35 -

http://www.u-35.com/photo/GrafSpee5.jpg

As can be seen, the damaged sections of the deck are wood.

Cheers,

Dougie

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: U-45 WIP
« Reply #190 on: 18 Dec , 2010, 15:28 »
Hello!

Cold and wet weather has prevented me from painting yesterday and today so I worked on some details for the conning tower.  Scratch built the two turnbuckles that appear on either side of the conning tower using a photo from U-47 as a guide.  I used very small steel tubing and pieces of brass formed into rings.  Thanks for having a look, please let me know if you have any questions or comments!

Cheers,

Bill

Photo of U-47



Close up of turnbuckle for U-45
« Last Edit: 23 Apr , 2018, 08:31 by Mr. Bill »

Offline FoxbaT

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Re: U-45 WIP
« Reply #191 on: 18 Dec , 2010, 16:45 »
Beautiful turnbuckle! Wel done and a great improvement  ;)



Karel

Offline dougie47

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Re: U-45 WIP
« Reply #192 on: 19 Dec , 2010, 12:00 »
Hi Bill,

Nice work on that turnbuckle, looks like the real thing.

Ernest, I think I recall some photos of pre-war Type IIs in bright sunshine, with their decks looking quite light. Might be the same one you saw in the archives. Trying to decipher colours from black and white photos is always a challenge. We really need a time machine!

Cheers,

Dougie

Offline Mr. Bill

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Re: U-45 WIP
« Reply #193 on: 19 Dec , 2010, 19:50 »
Constant rain and cold temperatures again today, but I decided to risk a quick painting session on the 88 deck gun - seems to have worked so far....   When the weather clears, I will follow this up with a coat of clear gloss future, some light wash to bring out the details and then a clear flat sealer.

Thanks for having a look, your comments and suggestions are always welcome.

Cheers,

Bill





« Last Edit: 23 Apr , 2018, 08:37 by Mr. Bill »

Offline Rokket

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Re: U-45 WIP
« Reply #194 on: 21 Dec , 2010, 04:53 »
Beaut gun and turnbuckles. I was wondering why you didn't buy the AMP (now WEM) set that includes turnbuckles, but you did a fabulous job scratching, so you obviously don't need the set!
AMP - Accurate Model Parts - http://amp.rokket.biz