Author Topic: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details  (Read 576749 times)

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Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2175 on: 03 Oct , 2014, 08:55 »
Don.
Before we go into further details may be we should discuss the basic systems of the Schnorchel. I don't`know your knowledge of the systems, so have me excused for going into the some items which might be too obvious to you.
 As a consequence of the great losses in 1943 due to allied air superiority, the germans had to do something to protect their Uboats and looked into a dutch system from before WW2  called the "sniffer" translated.  The system had to be adapted to the existing Uboats so they had to utilise the existing systems. Thus they had to make some compromises.
In the end of 1943 their system was ready to be installed in the frontline boats. The mast could not be telescopic that would require major changes, so they made a hinged type of schnorchel which could be folded down in the casing ( for VII Cs port side of the forward conningtower). The system utilised the existing exhaust blowingsystem for the ballasttanks using the same pipes up to the distribution chest outside the pressurehull  starboard side of the forward conningtower casing. Right before the chest it is a branch off to the schnorchelmast. In order to pass the distribution chest they had to let the pipe to the schnorchelmast go above the casingdeck ending in a schnorchel shut off exhaustvalve before the pipe goes under the deck and connects to the schnorchelmast.
The air intake ( for the first generation of the system) utilise the existing outboard ventilation airduct in the casing outside the pressure hull. The air enters the schnorchel mast via a top floatshutting valve being either  ringfloated or  hinged floated controlled.
Half way up at the conning tower appr. at the spray deflector the mast air pipe engages a fixed pipe on the conningtower via a rubber flange. This pipe goes to a drainvalve operated from the control room just before it enters the ventilation intakevalve inside the conning tower casing. Then it follows the ventilation duct still outside the pressurehull almost to the pressurehull inlet valve and have a cross over to the dieselair duct. The airinlet follows the dieselair hullvalve into the engine room. The reason for this arrangement was that in case of massive water intrusion, the ventilation fans could be destroyed whereas the large dieselair ducts ended near the bilges. Quite a few VII Cs had this arrangement.
This system was not quite satisfactorily and a modified new system was designed. The new system kept the arrangement for the exhaust, which is quite simple, but the air system was changed. The pipe on the conning tower was removed instead came a hollow schnorchel fulcrumshaft and the air was lead through this shaft and aft under the casing directly to the dieselair duct. One small detail though, it was not sufficient space for the bend leading the pipe aft so they had to make a hole in the casing to let the pipe turn aft outside the casing, hence it was easy to see which U boat had the new design, see my picture.
Puh! some long story, just ask if something is unclear may be I can answer ;D !
Tore
« Last Edit: 03 Oct , 2014, 12:06 by tore »

Offline VIC20

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2176 on: 03 Oct , 2014, 09:46 »

Hi, I'm still alive and still busy with my game. mostly working on graphics stuff and other non-simulation related things: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAL_24bfb4&list=UU03RMMpKkHkZVROUHFTWYVA

Don, the Skizzenbuch, any chance to get a copy of it?

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2177 on: 03 Oct , 2014, 10:24 »
Mark.
Good to see you are still around. I can`t stop being amazed by the graphics. One thing struck me though, to me it seems like the anchorbay is a bit high up on the U 96.
Tore

Offline VIC20

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2178 on: 03 Oct , 2014, 10:31 »
oh  :o


you mean the dent / hole for the anchor? It's on the same position as on the drawings I've used hmmm. Will look into it when I finish the model.

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2179 on: 03 Oct , 2014, 11:58 »
Mark.
Yes it looks a bit strange to me.
Tore

Offline VIC20

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2180 on: 03 Oct , 2014, 12:17 »
Yes you are right. It's a comparable tricky part I hope I can fix it without running into new problems.


*searches for his time machine to travel back and change original pre-wwii type vii plans*

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2181 on: 03 Oct , 2014, 15:07 »
Hello All,


The type VIIB and early VIIC had the standard bow.  Then the Atlantic bow was introduced and that widened and raised the bow.  I have the German edition or Rossler's book Geschichte des deutschen U-Bootbaus and the included fold out schematics show the obvious difference.


Regards,
Don-
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2182 on: 03 Oct , 2014, 23:44 »
Hello Mr. Tore,


I just posted the latest version of Slizzenbuch into dropbox with our first attempt at including the Schnorchel,,,  I typed schnorchel so many times that I'm even spelling it your way.


Regards,
Don_
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2183 on: 04 Oct , 2014, 00:15 »
Don.
Not bad, your are learning details of the VIICs and you are picking up the German language at the same time ;D .  I`ll have a look and revert later my time today.
Tore

Offline VIC20

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2184 on: 04 Oct , 2014, 00:29 »
The type VIIB and early VIIC had the standard bow.  Then the Atlantic bow was introduced and that widened and raised the bow.  I have the German edition or Rossler's book Geschichte des deutschen U-Bootbaus and the included fold out schematics show the obvious difference.


I think I scanned the fold out schematics from those 2 Rössler books (and the plan on page 166/167 of book #1) to build the model - something must have gone wrong.

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2185 on: 04 Oct , 2014, 01:47 »
Don.
On page 311 you have photos of the old and new version of the schnorchel  piping system. As you shall see from my text the old exhaust system was kept and only air inlet was changed on the new system. So I wondered why you had marked the airpipe on the tower and the protruding airbend out of the casing exhaust. Then I realized that I had posted  a wrong picture which should have been deleted as the bend and pipe were marked wrongly exhaust. Sorry about that but sometimes when you handle a lot of pictures it is hard to see such details in the process of posting.
On the system drawing page 312 you have copied my sketch of the old air inlet system (blue) correctly apart from a small branch off to the ventilation hullvalve. As mentioned in the text, the ventilation airduct hullvalve in schnorcheling mode is shut to prevent waterintrusion into the ventilationfan thus all the air goes into the diesel airduct/hullvalve.
Tore

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2186 on: 04 Oct , 2014, 17:20 »
Hi Mark,


The book page 166/167 is the (1940) General plan with the standard bow.  However, the separate large fold out plans in the back of the book Tafel IV and Tafel V are for the VIIC (1944) General Plan and this is the Atlantic bow.  My book set came with separate large folded prints just placed in the back of the book Volume (Band) 1, Tafel I through IX - and Volume (Band 2), Tafel X, XI, XII, XIII, XIV, XV, XVI, and XVIII. There was no XVII??


Regards,
Don_
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline VIC20

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2187 on: 04 Oct , 2014, 17:38 »
There was no XVII??



This is Tafel XVII:




Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2188 on: 04 Oct , 2014, 21:40 »
Hi Mark,


I looked again and I do have XVII... Apparently I didn't check the back of XVI when I was going through the fold out sheets.


Regards,
Don.
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2189 on: 04 Oct , 2014, 21:54 »
Hello Mr. Tore,


I believe I made all the corrections to the Schnorchel section of Skizzenbuch and uploaded to dropbox.  I also cleaned up the first few pages wording, and added photos of U-995's schnorchel installation and the mast guide and holding mechanism.  When I was first doing the schnorchel write up, I was wondering what held the mast in place other than water friction when the U-Boat was moving forward.  Then when I was looking at the photos of U-995, I noticed a raised section at the inside front of the guides and a vertical shaft in back of the guide metal housing. That led me to the conclusion that the guides spread apart, then clamped around the mast under spring torsion when it was at 90 degrees...


Regards,
Don_
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD