Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details

[SnakeDoc]

Hi Gentlemen,

the number of the crew in the Control Room (as well as in other rooms) were determined by so called Rollentafeln. They were divided into two parts: seemännisch (nautical) and technisch. Each part described function of the crew member in every condition (that means Klarmachen zum Tauchen, Friedens Tauchstation, Kriegsmarsch, Freiwache, Gefechtstation, Artillerie Gefechtstation, Boje über Board, Manöver). In Kriegsmarsch condition, during dive, in Control Room there are following persons:
- forward dive plane operator
- aft dive plane operator
- vent of ballast tank 5 operator
- negative tanks stb operator
- negative tanks port operator
- vent of ballast tank 3 stb operator (also ballast tanks 2 and 4 stb when used - they were fitted with common vent)
- vent of ballast tank 3 port operator (also ballast tanks 2 and 4 port when used - they were fitted with common vent)

As the ballast tank 1 according to regulations had to be vented as last one, the vent valve could be operated by one of persons mentioned before.
Also there were persons mentioned by Tore - commanding officer (or officer of the watch), chief engineer, torpedo officer.
I believe, that blowing distributor, trim station or pump operator roles were performed by some of persons listed above.

Generally, Tore has interesting experience from the Norwegian service of U-995.

- main rudder operator was in conning tower (rudder station in control room was kind of emergency one. Although Tore said some time ago, that when KMN Kaura  was in service, the common practice was to use control room station, as it was more convenient while snorkeling)

Generally, it seems, that in control room should be much about 10 people. For comparison - on type IXC U-Boats:

When surfaced, there are five persons in the control room.  At battle stations, there are ten.

http://uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXC.htm

--
Regards
Maciek

[tore]

Don.
Your adjustment of my system sketch seems to be fine to me. If you study the original German plates you`ll see on the system sketch a 90 degrees gearcone arrangement inside the Q tank, if we assume this is right we should add same, further you valveopening seems to be a bit to large, I believe each of the nearby MBT4 Kingstons has a flood area of 0,9m2 whereas the total Q floodvalve area is 0,24 m2 for a comparison. The red dot on the photo of the grating indicates the diameter of the floodvalve inlet.
Do you have any particular reason for introducing a U bend at the end of the checkpipe? You would of course get an earlier warning but you`ll leave more residual water in the tank, but you could obtain same with the length adjustment of the pipe.
Tore

[tore]

Don.
Manning of the CR.
Maciek gave a good information of the German manning regulation, my info was based on RN and Norwegian regulation. Basically Maciek reference to the German regulation are the same, manning varies with the type of diving stations f.i.. it is a big difference with a routine surfacing while the crew are sleeping and at a battlestation situation, so it varies. The system of splitting the  crew into navigational (deck) and technical crew is normal in most navies I think. Our system was based on the RN system as our navy fought in UK exile during WW2 and our submarines were English and training was done in UK. I my shelf was trained in UK. The big difference is that in the German navy the chief engineer was responsible for the trim, ballast calculation and in command of the hydroplanes etc. In the RN and many other navies including ours this job is done by the NO1, next in command of the CO.
The chief engineer is mostly stand by if something should go wrong and engineers would be required. During battlestation in our navy however, the chief engineer worked with the CO with distance bearing/ calculation. Down below is a picture with the CO on his knees at the navigation periscope and I calculating the distances during a dummy attack just to give you an idea.
When using the attack periscope the chief engineer was not in the tower but in the CR. At the attackperiscope the CO could get a lot of info directly, however we did not trust the German fruitmachine so the CE had to do some calculation passing messages up to the tower verbally. So you see Don, as so many times before, it is not a single answer to a simple question.

[SG]

It's good to see you at work  . Also, Great info Tore.

[tore]

Don.
Manning of the Control room.
May be a further explanation why it is a difference in the German and RN ( and other navies)  manning regulations. The VIICs was, as known to all of you, equipped with manually operated ballastvents operated by rods and levers that required a lot of People locally placed. The RN and many other navies operated boats having hydraulically (Oleo system) operated vents which were controlled  by one person, like the blowing of the tanks at one station, that saved a lot of personell, thus a reduction of the people in the CR. The CR engineer was responsible for both the HP airsystem and the hydraulic system and would take an experienced PO engineer to handle and maintain. He was indeed an important man.
Tore

[tore]

Hi SG
The photo was made by a paper making a report about life on board a submarine, we were warned on beforehand, that`s why I was wearing an uniform with even a white shirt. We newer wore this at sea, as previously told my favourite dress was a pink pyjamas often covered by a greasy battledress and mostly my uniformcap .
Tore

[Don Prince]

Hello Mr. Tore,


Would this be correct for the locations of the Q tank valve and drain funnel for testing an empty condition on the Stb. side?


Regards,
Don_

[NZSnowman]

Hi SG
The photo was made by a paper making a report about life on board a submarine, we were warned on beforehand, that`s why I was wearing an uniform with even a white shirt. We newer wore this at sea, as previously told my favourite dress was a pink pyjamas often covered by a greasy battledress and mostly my uniformcap .
Tore

WOW... I was starting to think that the RNoN had a very high standard of dress code on there submarine

[SG]

Tore, now you must show us a pic of you at  work in your (in)famous outfit !!!!   

[tore]

Don.
Residue watercheck Q stb.
Your picture (green oval) seems to me as being the possible relief valve of stb.Q, Your green pipe could be the part of the residue water check pipe ending up in the funnel, sometimes these small pipes are bended and twisted. The pipe looks a bit small. I have made a picture suggesting my ideas, the reliefvalve is a bit doubtful as I cannot see the reliefvalve of the HP air distribution manifold. If you would check further please note: There are two pipes going through the hull near the blow/vent hullpipe, these pipes join in a greasenipple for greasing the external floodvalve so you don`t get confused by these pipes.
Tore

[tore]

Simon and SG.
Oh you guys! Don't forget we were 46 men who shared 2 small handwashing basins with no facilities for washing clothes and we could be submerged for up to a month. The VIICs were not fit for a prolonged submerged time as schnorcheling, so you were wearing your clothes until you almost could throw them away rather than bringing them back home. Thank god I have no photo of my pink pyjamas, however I Guess I have a photo of us coming straight from the North Sea dress as we used to be. I`ll see if I can find the photo some day .
Tore 

[tore]

Don
Residue water check Q stb.
I have rechecked the available photos and have made an additional picture putting up my final findings. My assumptions are: Q reliefvalve OK.greasing pipes OK.Q blowing manometer is missing only bracket left, diff manometer OK.residuetest line funnel OK, residue hullvalve having round wheel marked and OK. some of the piping can be seen but missing all the way to the funnel. I have posted a photo with the additional info. Thus I guess the picture should be complete as I see it today. As we know the 4 blowing manifold diff manometers have a single common reference pipe to the sea, I believe the Q diffmanometers are hooked up to same as well, although not shown on any drawing.
Tore

[Don Prince]

Hello Mr. Tore,


I was reviewing Plate 16 and I don't understand why there is an extra set of mushroom vent valves towards the back of Dive Tank 2 (D2) in the saddle tank area.  I circled the valves in question in red.  Does it have something to do with diving since the valves are towards the back of the saddle tanks?


Regards,
Don_

[tore]

Don
The vents are the residual airvents which are needed for the aft saddle ballast tanks because you dive with a bow down angle. By doing that air is trapped in the aft part of the tank and you need to get rid of that air by extra vents. They are operated from the engine room. For the same reason you don`t have this arrangement for the fwd. saddle ballast tanks 4 port and starboard as here the mainvents are at the aft end of the tank.
Tore

[Don Prince]

Hello Mr. Tore,


This is a long multi-part question with reference to Plate 16 and Plate 17...


Is the Regulating and RFO tank 1 open to the Sea?  A while back I had the understanding that this tank had fuel oil floating on top of water and as the oil was used it was replaced with Sea water (a Self Regulation tank).  If so, then where is the opening for the sea water to enter the regulating and RFO tank 1?


It looks like there are 3 blowing distributor systems
1.  the Main Blowing Distributor (Plate 17)
2.  the Exhaust Blowing Distributor (Plate 16)
3.  the Emergency Blowing Manifold (Plate 16 and Plate 17)


Q1.  is this correct. where are they located in the control room
Q2.  it looks like the Exhaust Blowing Distributor only affects D1 through- D5
Q3.  It looks like the other 2 blowing distributors affect all tanks except Regulating Tank 2 because this tank has no flood valve and has to be pumped???


If there is a down U-boat and a diver hooks up the two lines in order to bring the U-boat to the surface, then all effort is for nothing if no one is conscious and able to open the Tide valves on D2, D3 and D4, and open the hull valves on ALL the other tanks???


Regards,
Don_