Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details

[SnakeDoc]

Hi Tore

I cannot remember ever to have seen this box, so I presume it has been installed after my time onboard. It looks like an US made box to me and that migth give a clue. AGOS  was (is?) a name for US Ocean Surveillance Ships gathering acoustic datas in support of the Navys antisubmarine warfare branch. My guess is the box has something to do with equipment linked up to that.

Thank you for answer.
--
Regards
Maciek

[tore]

Christopher.
You mentioned earlier you was a PADI Divemaster. I`m not going to start a new thread on that but this migth have some common submarine interest. As a part in our submarine engineerining training I got my first certificate as a shallow water diver in 1953 quite a bit before the scubadiving was common. The equipment was based on the submarine escape eqipment called the Davies apparatus using oxygen but modified for diving. The idea was that the engineering officer should be able to inspect and even make sketches of damages to  hulls or objects below the surface. As can be seen on the pictures below, we didn`t use flippers but boots with lead soles. Well at the bottom (6-8 meters) they lowered various items  which you should inspect and write or sketch  on a board. At the end came a sign : "do you like gin?"when you wrote "yes" on the board, you could surface and get your certificate. As you see on the pictures we used a rubber drysuit which pinched terribly. Sorry this post was a bit outside the VIIC topics
Tore

[Rokket]

This is Your thread, so now worries on topic. if it gets too wild we'll split. The system is meant to serve us, and not the other way around! Cool stuff by the way! It might be interesting to compare this setup with the US escape gear (Momsen Lung) and any others. I look at "parallel invention". My own personal survey of electrical plugs and sockets of modern times: USA = small and wimpy, with bad wire nut connections in junction boxes; UK = huge and chunky plugs, don't know about wiring; Australia = compact yet substantial, with really simple and secure screw connection inside boxes and switches. USA has good junction boxes, yet half the power of Aus, Aus has crappy exposed (internally) switch boxes. All do the same thing, and for practical purposes, equally well, but all are different!

[tore]

This is Your thread, so now worries on topic. if it gets too wild we'll split. The system is meant to serve us, and not the other way around! Cool stuff by the way! It might be interesting to compare this setup with the US escape gear (Momsen Lung) and any others. I look at "parallel invention". My own personal survey of electrical plugs and sockets of modern times: USA = small and wimpy, with bad wire nut connections in junction boxes; UK = huge and chunky plugs, don't know about wiring; Australia = compact yet substantial, with really simple and secure screw connection inside boxes and switches. USA has good junction boxes, yet half the power of Aus, Aus has crappy exposed (internally) switch boxes. All do the same thing, and for practical purposes, equally well, but all are different!

Rokket
Indeed quite similar to Momsen lung. The thing was they didn`t have the regulators at that time so they used the "bag" to adjust the ambient breathing pressure, inside the bag was  a cannister with barium hydrooxide absorbing the CO2.
You are rigth about the UK boxes they were huge and the design required a consumption of gunmetal which the germans even couldn`t dream about. The differences are  like fingerprints which make it possible to indentify various items in a hotchpotch like U 995 and that makes the research interesting. 
Tore

[Rokket]

You are optimistic when you call the challenge of 995 "interesting"! I'd use frustrating! Oh for a time machine...

[SnakeDoc]

Hi Tore

Maciek & Tore, here is a list I started on the changes for U-995 a few years back. It is in way finish!
 
Bow Torpedo

• High Pressure Air bank № 4 missing.
• Torpedo Tube - Original torpedo tube № III replace, probable exchange by the Norwegian Navy launch some 533mm post war torpedoes.

Forward, bottom, stb torpedo tube.



Aft torpedo tube (original).


Do you remember details of the modifiacion of forward torpedo tube? It seems, that the tube as well as
whole external fittings and armature is orignal (or restored), but the interior of the tube is quite new. For
me it seems, like the tube was drilled out - the width of the tube walls was decreased and lined with four
guidnesses.


Some time ago I have tried to describe the german uboat's torpedo tubes and I'm still interested in all
details related with this topic.
http://www.ubootwaffe.pl/component/option,com_flexicontent/Itemid,76/cid,66/id,337/view,items


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek

[tore]

Maciek
What an impressive document you published. No, I cannot remember we did anything to the torpedotubes in my time, so I presume it migth have been done afterwards. Allthough torpedoes and tubes were not at all my job it was left to the torpedopeople onboard, I followed with interest their discussion on the german torpedoes which basicly dealt with the LUT torpedoes and I doubt if we ever had an other make but german in my time. We spent a lot of time and effort on the LUT. I presume you have seen my photo of a dummy torpedo surface shot just to check the ejection, otherwise see below
Tore

[SnakeDoc]

Tore
Once again, thank you for your answers. I have got another question - I'm wondering what was your practice to measure the CO₂
concentration during longer submerged cruises?
From the reports, I know, the Germans used something called "air sampling tubes, a Drager-measuring apparatus, or an Orsat testing setup".
Was your approach different? Or did you use something similar? If so, could you explain how it worked?


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek

[TopherVIIC]

Tore!
I LOVE your story about your initial scuba training! The pics of the early "submerged - engineering - inspection - apparatus" as I would have called it, was outstanding!
Some day I shall have to relate the story of a young trainee who invented the underwater yo-yo! :-)
Christopher

[tore]

Tore
Once again, thank you for your answers. I have got another question - I'm wondering what was your practice to measure the CO₂
concentration during longer submerged cruises?
From the reports, I know, the Germans used something called "air sampling tubes, a Drager-measuring apparatus, or an Orsat testing setup".
Was your approach different? Or did you use something similar? If so, could you explain how it worked?


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek

Well Maciek I guess you have to realize this was back in the early fifthies and we did`t have very sofisticated outfit for oxygen and CO2 mesurements except for a box  from the germans with some chemicals which we tried once. I don`t remember what kind of chemicals but it was a fairly simple step to step instructions what to do.
We did`t make any science about it and used our experience and how the body reacted, primarely panting for the excessive CO2 and for oxygen, well honestly we allowed a cigarette per man occasionally (very seldom), if the match wouldn`t ligth we were low on oxygen.
I know most submarines were equipped with testkit, but I doubt if it was regulary used. An experienced submariner can feel a lot on his body about the quality of the air in additon to the time you have been submerged and the activity of the crew.
Tore

[tore]

Tore!
I LOVE your story about your initial scuba training! The pics of the early "submerged - engineering - inspection - apparatus" as I would have called it, was outstanding!
Some day I shall have to relate the story of a young trainee who invented the underwater yo-yo! :-)
Christopher

It`s easy to forget the enormous development which has taken place on diving and submarines the past 60 years. 60 years ago,in my time, escape excercises from sunken submarines were not common, but after a few disasters  prior to my submarinetraining (HMS Truculent and HMS Affray) the newspapers started to scream and in UK where I was trained, came eventually an 100`escape trainingtank which was brand new in 1953.
My commander in submarinetraining was furious about all the money spent on escape in stead of spending the money teaching people how to operated the subs. Different days I guess.
Tore 

[SnakeDoc]

Hi Tore

Once again, thank you for your answers. I have got another question - I'm wondering what was your practice to measure the CO₂
concentration during longer submerged cruises?
From the reports, I know, the Germans used something called "air sampling tubes, a Drager-measuring apparatus, or an Orsat testing setup".
Was your approach different? Or did you use something similar? If so, could you explain how it worked?

Well Maciek I guess you have to realize this was back in the early fifthies and we did`t have very sofisticated outfit for oxygen and CO2 mesurements except for a box  from the germans with some chemicals which we tried once. I don`t remember what kind of chemicals but it was a fairly simple step to step instructions what to do.
We did`t make any science about it and used our experience and how the body reacted, primarely panting for the excessive CO2 and for oxygen, well honestly we allowed a cigarette per man occasionally (very seldom), if the match wouldn`t ligth we were low on oxygen.
I know most submarines were equipped with testkit, but I doubt if it was regulary used. An experienced submariner can feel a lot on his body about the quality of the air in additon to the time you have been submerged and the activity of the crew.

Well, I supposed it was some kind of chemical tests - thank you for the confirmation.


It is amazing, how small amount of oxygen is needed to keep the man breathing. I have read the memories of polish submariners operating on the Mediterranean. They said, that during long submerged cruise, they also  tried to light the match - and they could't, while they still were able breathing.


They said also, that when they had to use their personal CO₂ absorbers,  they had fun making tournaments, which one would be the hottest.


I wonder about another submariners practise - did you have to measure the sea water density during cruises? If so, what kind of equipment did you use?


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek

[tore]

Maciek
 Well, we never had competitions with the individual CO2 absorbers, they were clumsy and not very comfortable to wear. You are right with regards to the oxygen, we did`t suffer much due to that, it was primarely CO2 which caused the trouble. As a routine everybody who did`t have a watch to attend were lying in their bunks minimizing the oxygenconsumption. It`s unbelievable today to imagine we tried to ligth a cigarette under such conditions.
Tore

[tore]

Maciek
Salt density. Yes we measured the salinity (density). Particulary in the waters we were operating, fjords with rivers melting ice etc. It was primarely No1`s reponsibility. As far as I remember it was like a batterygravety measuredevice. Water density was of course important for the trim of the sub.
Tore

[TopherVIIC]

Tore-
Do you remember if the torpedomen stored the torpedoes with the contact pistols threaded onto the warheads of the unloaded torpedoes or were they kept locked up and put on prior to loading into the tubes? I know that might be outside the duties of a snort officer, but I wonder if that is something you might have known...
Christopher