Author Topic: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details  (Read 597986 times)

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Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2760 on: 10 Jun , 2015, 14:38 »
Hello Mr. Tore,


On U-boats after 1943, the hand-wheel for MBT 1 was mounted on the aft control room pressure hull bulkhead.  Do you have any photos or drawings that showed the MBT 1 hand-wheel located in the aft torpedo room?  I assume the change was made to have all ballast tanks controlled from the control room...


Regards,
Don_
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline SnakeDoc

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2761 on: 10 Jun , 2015, 23:08 »
Hi Don,

I guess you are wrong here.The vents of all ballast tanks were controlled from control room from beginning. The remote control for bow buoyancy tank on the forward bulkhead was added later.
The driving shaft for the operating MBT1 vent valve is going from control room to the aft torpedo room through petty officers room, diesel engine room and electric motor room. In each room, to the shaft is attached the driving hand-wheel, for operating the shaft and vent valve when part of the shaft is damaged.

--
Regards
Maciek
« Last Edit: 11 Jun , 2015, 01:30 by SnakeDoc »

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2762 on: 11 Jun , 2015, 04:04 »
Don.
I fully agree to Maciek  last post. In the aft pressure bulkhead of the controlroom you have two ventwheels. The stb being for the residue venting of MBT 2 port and stb. The rod goes all the way to the engineroom where a 90 degrees bevelgear takes the rod through the pressurehull right up front of the stb. main exhaust blowing valve and then to the two residue ventvalves. The other wheel on the port side  operates the rod to the MBT 1 ventvalve. The rods goes on port side to the engineroom. Just aft of the port main exhaustvalve a chaindrive connect the drive to stb side and the rod goes now on the stb. side to the aft torpedoroom where it goes trough the end of the pressurehull at  frame 0 and the externally to the MBT1 vent..
Both vent wheels are normally operated from the controlroom and the wheels can be locked as for the other main ventvalves levers and wheels.
See my image below.
Tore
« Last Edit: 11 Jun , 2015, 04:06 by tore »

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2763 on: 11 Jun , 2015, 13:33 »
Hello Mr. Tore,


It was late and I just got things wrong!  The last photos put posted...  Could you provide me with the top photo only of the 2 hand-wheels for MBT 2 Residual and MBT 1 without the remarks because I use Times New Roman type set...


Thanks,
Don_
« Last Edit: 11 Jun , 2015, 13:34 by Don Prince »
A man's got to know his limitations...
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Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2764 on: 11 Jun , 2015, 14:09 »
Don.
I guess this shall do.
Tore

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2765 on: 11 Jun , 2015, 14:27 »
Hello Mr. Tore,


Super fast...  Thank you!  I just notices something - The diesel maneuvering panels have the levers arranged differently on the port and starboard side.  They simply moved the fuel and starting lever assembly from one side to the other, but that changes the location relative to the center walk-way (They are not Mirrored).  They have the reversing lever on the inside of the moved assembly next to the starting air hand-wheel.


I was getting confused (very likely) when you posted the photo showing the reversing lever on the left of the fuel and starting levers, and my photo showed the reversing location to be to the right.


Regards,
Don_
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2766 on: 11 Jun , 2015, 14:46 »
Don.
You shall find this done with a number of items on the engine f.inst the fuelpumps which are the same. This is much cheaper to produce and you have only one item to keep as sparepart on board.
Tore
« Last Edit: 11 Jun , 2015, 14:48 by tore »

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2767 on: 12 Jun , 2015, 00:39 »
Hello Mr. Tore,


My understanding of reverse...  If the engine was running forward, then you stopped the engine.  To go in reverse, you select reverse with the starting lever, and then move the ahead/astern handle to astern and once the cams are shifted you move the starting handle to start. at this point the diesel engine can run in reverse.


Now we stop the engine again.  To go forward again you move the starting handle to reverse again.  Now you can move the ahead/astern handle to ahead.  Once the cams are shifted, then you can move the starting handle to start and away we go in forward...


I know I skipped a lot of details, but I just want to know if I have a basic idea as to how it works...


Kind regards,
Don_
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2768 on: 12 Jun , 2015, 01:22 »
Hello Mr. Tore,


The attached photo shows the panel on the other diesel engine and the Ahead Astern unit has a very wide space from the other levers.  That way the ahead/astern and the fuel lever handles can point toward earh other still and not interfere with each other.


Regards,
Don_
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2769 on: 12 Jun , 2015, 01:59 »
Don.
If you want to simplify the description of the reversing system, may be you could use a text like this:
The starting handle has four position 1. start2. run3.  stop and 4. reversing. These different positions are necessary to release and engage the various interlocks in the reversing/ starting system.
The start position allows the starting air to enter the cylinders, and when the engine runs on air, the fuelhandle is moved to run to allow fuel to the cylinders. When the engine is running on fuel, the starting handle is moved to run position shutting the starting air to the cylinders. The startinghandle in  stop position locks the system when the fuelhandle is put to 0 fuel.
The reversing is done by placing the starting lever in reversing postion thereby engaging the starting interlocks,  releasing the reversing interlocks and admitting air to the reversingcylinder slide. When the interlocks are released they allow the reversinghandle to move into the ahead/astern position and the reversing cylinder is shifting the camshaft in the required position, when this sequence is completed,the starting interlocks are again released and you repeat the starting procedure in the new direction of rotation.
This description is not complete but gives a rough idea of the starting/ reversing procedures.
Tore
« Last Edit: 12 Jun , 2015, 23:23 by tore »

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2770 on: 13 Jun , 2015, 00:42 »
Don.
Your "discovery" of the maneuverstand not being mirrored touch upon an interesting subject. Modern warfare is depending upon access to rawmateriel, people and industrial capacity. The Nazi Germany was limited in all and in the submarine construction details you might find clever details to come around their problem. The most common submarine engine was built in two versions, 6 and 9 cylinder using as many interchangeable components as possible. This was done by making symmetrical parts which could be assembled 180 degrees avoiding mirror ( two) executions in a twin engine installation. For instance the large items as the cylinderblocks were made in 3 cylinders symmetrical units. The same casting could be assembled in 2x3 units= 6 cylinder units for the VIIC and 3x3 units=9 cylinder for the IX, being symmetrical they could be turned 180 degrees and used both as a port and stb. engine. On the image below you see the U 995 6 cyl. engine connectionflange for the two 3 cylinder blocks. Between the blocks there is an inch visible gap between the cylindercovers because of the extra space required for the cylinderblock flanges.
For the fuelpumps they followed the same system. One type of fuel pump for port and stb. engine, not mirrored on the other engine, but simply turning the fuelpump 180 degrees. By that you face  a problem as the fuelplunger is controlled by an axially movement of the fuelrack and by having the maneuverstands on both engines up front and governor in the aft you have to change the direction of the fuelrack movement on one of the engines. On the port engine the fuelrack moves aft to increase the fuelinjection on stb engines it moves fwd.
The movement of the fuelhandle and the hydraulic governor are the same on both engines, a change of the fuelrack direction is done by introducing and extra lever in the rack linkage for the fuellever and the governor on one of the engines.
The whole engine is full of such solutions, like on cylindercovers, supercharger etc. etc. and means a vast saving in production and storage.
On the raw materiel you see substitutes for brass and nickel alloy. F.inst on the U 995 all the text plates on the maneuvering stand are a very dull aluminium instead of brassplates, even the gauges have in some cases substitutes for brass.
I remember during "WW2" all the nickel- and coppercoins were withdrawn from the circulation and substituted by iron and zinc and all the brass ashtrays and handles were removed from the streetcars and trains to be used in the German warproduction.
May be difficult to understand today, but dead serious in my younger days and, as you see ,an impact on the submarine constructions as well.
Tore
« Last Edit: 13 Jun , 2015, 02:39 by tore »

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2771 on: 14 Jun , 2015, 12:17 »
Hello Mr. Tore,


Thank you for the information about the construction of the Krupp GW Diesel engines...  I have been working on the Schiffer version of Skizzenbuch; compressing pages and adding some of the great info provided by you lately.


Regards,
Don_
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2772 on: 14 Jun , 2015, 19:28 »
Hello Mr. Tore,


Skizzenbuch page 411 - the Roots Supercharger - The yellow pipe supplying air to the cylinders - Are there 6 pipes for the Type VIIC Krupp GW Diesel engines, one for each cylinder?


Regards,
Don_
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2773 on: 15 Jun , 2015, 00:14 »
Don.
The air supply to the cylinders goes via separate ducts for each cylinder. The system works as follows: When the engine is on moderate load e.g. Roots blower not engaged, the air is sucked in by the engine via several inlets on the common air manifold. From the manifold the air goes via separate airducts to each cylinder.
When the Roots blower is clutched in, the clutchhandle simontaneously turns the rotating valves at the separate normal aspirated air inlets on the manifold, shutting the inletvalves and the compressed air is supplied via the separate air inlet for the Roots blower being compressed and then discharged to the airmanifold.  The compressed air is then supply to the cylinders via the separate airducts. Down below I have tried to make an image using one of Simon exellent drawings.
Tore

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2774 on: 15 Jun , 2015, 08:25 »
Don.
Another important large item is used on both starboard and port engine. The cylindercover, which is designed with starting valve, fuelvalve and safety valve in the centerline thus the cover is symmetrical to this line. However on the 180 degrees turned cover the exhaust and inlet valves  change places. This is compensated by having the valves in cages, a seawatercooled cage for the exhaustvalve and a noncooled version for the inlet valves. The outside construction and dimensions are the same for both versions and they fit in both corresponding pockets in the cylindercover, however the coolingwater outlet from the cylindercover to the exhaust valvecage must be replaced on the 180 degrees version. This is done by having two coolingwater outlets symmetrically placed on the cover, the outlet not in use, being blanked off by a blindflange. Various smaller pipes as venting- and lubrication pipes are adapted as well, but the idea of having one cover fitting both engines is obtained which simplify the sparepart storage (and cost).
Down below is an imaged where I am trying to explain the system and again using some of Simons images.


Tore
« Last Edit: 15 Jun , 2015, 13:41 by tore »