Nice workMr. Mox...Your english is better than mine.......And i speak it every day !
Since english isnt my native language please forgive me, but I have the impression that conning tower is the presurrized part of the tower, sail, fairwater - or whatever its called??
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/5301/deck2tx9.th.jpg) (http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=deck2tx9.jpg)Many thanks, once again ,Simon ..
Conning tower with no deck.
(http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/4637/deck1ad6.th.jpg) (http://img301.imageshack.us/my.php?image=deck1ad6.jpg)
Conning tower, with deck and no hatch cover.
isn't this called the "attack room", position of commander during attack?
it's an extension of the pressure hull
The drawing is in 2D only. I am using CorelDraw X4. At the moment there are 70 different layers (for example I are display the boat with or without deck hatches
Hi Mr.Mox. Here a new drawing with a outline of the pressure hull in the Conning tower. Also I have update the Diesel air inlet trunk line today ;D
The drawing is in 2D only. I am using CorelDraw X4. At the moment there are 70 different layers (for example I are display the boat with or without deck hatches – so you can view that is under the hatches etc...) and there are over 109,000 objects in the drawing.
most often the unused attachment points for the net cutter
(http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/4341/unknown20ne2.th.jpg) (http://img140.imageshack.us/my.php?image=unknown20ne2.jpg)(http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3758/u558xm9.th.jpg) (http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=u558xm9.jpg)
(http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/2575/rst994003xp6.th.jpg) (http://img178.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rst994003xp6.jpg)(http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/1061/rst993001bz4.th.jpg) (http://img364.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rst993001bz4.jpg)
TBC...
Because devil is in detail....
(http://img518.imageshack.us/img518/1456/u4041ol5.th.jpg) (http://img518.imageshack.us/my.php?image=u4041ol5.jpg)
(http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/6934/rst995001kw1.th.jpg) (http://img56.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rst995001kw1.jpg)
(http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/2199/rst995003cu8.th.jpg) (http://img56.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rst995003cu8.jpg)
TBC... ;)
Antislip strips.
(http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/9928/asstrips002uu8.jpg)
(http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/2783/asstrips005xo0.jpg)
TBC...
During your research on the anti-slip strips, did you found that the anti-slip strips were a narrow plate with a double row of bolts?
Siara, that is plate below and right of the capstan, with the funny outline? I seen them on the early Type VII's but not on the late-war VII
Do you know what the plate the with funny outline do?
Also...Do you know what this is call?
Also...Do you know what this is call? Thanks.
It's damn frustrating to be i this situation - discover a new angle/part and not have full info. I've never noticed it before!You right- like this little detail here:
(http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/7375/u991gl2.th.jpg) (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=u991gl2.jpg) (http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6362/unknown11ic3.th.jpg) (http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=unknown11ic3.jpg) (http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/6208/plumbing0041mp5.th.jpg) (http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plumbing0041mp5.jpg) (http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4957/plumbing007qk1.th.jpg) (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plumbing007qk1.jpg) (http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/8061/plumbing0061oa7.th.jpg) (http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plumbing0061oa7.jpg)
Next step- deck fixings.
TBC...
Thanks Siara. I have this already. This is what makes me believe that there is a missing vent on all the plans I have. If you look closely that all three valves, they all go to the deck. Both the Bow Driving and Stern main buoyancy tanks have deck vents, but where is the Stern Driving Tank deck vent? Surely not all the plans could be wrong ???
(http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/9125/ventszd7.jpg)
It's damn frustrating to be i this situation - discover a new angle/part and not have full info. I've never noticed it before!You right- like this little detail here:
(http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/7375/u991gl2.th.jpg) (http://img181.imageshack.us/my.php?image=u991gl2.jpg) (http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6362/unknown11ic3.th.jpg) (http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=unknown11ic3.jpg) (http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/6208/plumbing0041mp5.th.jpg) (http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plumbing0041mp5.jpg) (http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4957/plumbing007qk1.th.jpg) (http://img209.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plumbing007qk1.jpg) (http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/8061/plumbing0061oa7.th.jpg) (http://img377.imageshack.us/my.php?image=plumbing0061oa7.jpg)
Next step- deck fixings.
TBC...
Thank you guys for your continuous support! ;)
More details. Not much left to be done.
Some hatches, and steel plates were added to the sides:
(http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/4645/rst998016uf9.th.jpg) (http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rst998016uf9.jpg) (http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1622/rst998014rr6.th.jpg) (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rst998014rr6.jpg) (http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/2232/rst9980171az0.th.jpg) (http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rst9980171az0.jpg)
TBC....
Hi Simon, the drawings are looking very, very nice! I'll bet it takes some time doing the detail work.
I noted what a few people over the last few weeks have been putting hinges on the deck hatches. So, this morning I decide I should check my deck hatches on my drawing. I noted some of my hatches and hinges did not match. So today I did some research on some good pictures I have of decks of U-249 (VIIC) and U-1023 & U-1109 (VIIC/41). Below this the bow hatch covers layout including hinges and opening side. Arrow point to opening side, flat end of arrow show hinge side. This is possibly the standard layout of the bow hatches on late VIIC and VIIC/41.
(http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/5347/hatchcoverta8.th.jpg) (http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hatchcoverta8.jpg)
I have located the deck vent for the Bow Driving Tank and the Stern main buoyancy tank but I can't found the deck vent for Stern Driving Tank. Do it have a deck vent? I don't have any picture of the stern to check this and I can
Hi Simon,
Position A for the radio aerial wire. VERY nice drawings!
Cheers,
Dougie
Hi Siara
I was wondering that length did you make your Grapnels? Also during your research on the Grapnels did you come across how it was fix to the deck? I imagine the grapnels were fixed with wing nuts so they could be quickly and easily remove when needed ??? Thanks, Simon.Siara,Thanks Wildspear!
Some times it's hard to believe to detail you put on a build. It also gives me insperation and ideas for my own build. Keep the pics coming.
Ill keep the pics coming as you wish....
Grapnels- i think thats what this thing is called- does anybody know?
...
...
...
(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5215/kije3011dd6.th.jpg) (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kije3011dd6.jpg) (http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4746/kije3012yg5.th.jpg) (http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kije3012yg5.jpg)
TBC...
..Still no ideas on what these three plates with the funny outline are ?? (I doubt if they're for a clutch release though !) Anybody at all ? ANYBODY ??Do you know what the plate the with funny outline do?
I really dont know. The shape of it gives me ideas- it may be something to do with the capstan. Picture this:
lever is inserted in the slot, and wedged in the recess to release the clutch mechanism on the capstan ratchet? ???
Than theres two more of these slots on the stern of the boat- so i rally dont know. Maybe someone else can shed some light on it?Also...Do you know what this is call?
Not a clue my friend. But we have so many submarine eggheads here im sure your question will get answered. ;)
..Still no ideas on what these three plates with the funny outline are ?? (I doubt if they're for a clutch release though !) Anybody at all ? ANYBODY ??Do you know what the plate the with funny outline do?
I really dont know. The shape of it gives me ideas- it may be something to do with the capstan. Picture this:
lever is inserted in the slot, and wedged in the recess to release the clutch mechanism on the capstan ratchet? ???
Than theres two more of these slots on the stern of the boat- so i rally dont know. Maybe someone else can shed some light on it?Also...Do you know what this is call?
Not a clue my friend. But we have so many submarine eggheads here im sure your question will get answered. ;)
Hi Simon,
I don't have a close up photo, but it can be seen from a distance in -
Your hatch should be the same as the hatches on the aft deck. These can be seen below -
These style of hatches has two small hinges at one end. Towards the opposite side there was a semi-circular hole to allow the hatch to be opened.
Not sure what the weird shaped oulines were on the deck but Type IIs had them too.
Cheers,
Dougie
Hi Simon....Grapnels ?....More than likely wood...If they got dropped overboard they would float ! If metal..They'd be too heavy to handle unless they were tubes...Hi Siara
I was wondering that length did you make your Grapnels? Also during your research on the Grapnels did you come across how it was fix to the deck? I imagine the grapnels were fixed with wing nuts so they could be quickly and easily remove when needed ??? Thanks, Simon.Siara,Thanks Wildspear!
Some times it's hard to believe to detail you put on a build. It also gives me insperation and ideas for my own build. Keep the pics coming.
Ill keep the pics coming as you wish....
Grapnels- i think thats what this thing is called- does anybody know?
...
...
...
(http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/5215/kije3011dd6.th.jpg) (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kije3011dd6.jpg) (http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4746/kije3012yg5.th.jpg) (http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=kije3012yg5.jpg)
TBC...
Hi Siara. Another question about the Grapnels - wood or metal ??? Thanks, Simon.
I thought because, if they stop making the u-boat decks out of metal then were would be no way they would make the Grapnels with metal ;)
Hi Simon,
Looking at a few VIIC photos there is a definite space between the bollards and hatch 1. The photo you posted was taken at such an angle that this space can't be appreciated. I'd say the position of the hatches in the Delize plan look about right.
Cheers,
Dougie
No it isnt, in fact the boat is unknown, as far as i know......And there appears to be some difference in the flood holes from your model...
U-552 had the conning tower without the extended air vents.
Hi Siara, This is U-552?
Does anyone have an image or know how the Aft Navigation Light was attached to the deck on either late war VIIC or VIIC/41? Was it attached to a metal plate (Fig. B) or was it attached to the wooden deck (Fig. A) ???
Thanks, Simon.
(http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/2748/deck2ss5.th.jpg) (http://img25.imageshack.us/my.php?image=deck2ss5.jpg)
Simon, this probably is not much help, but on my model the light housing is directly on the deck. By the way, did you get the measurements I sent?
I'm eager to see the continuation of the bowplane cable tensioner assembly.
I'm curious... the things you just made... are they the "self-adjusting tensioners" that have a heavy spring inside?
(They do not look like normal manually-adjustable cable tensioners like I made for U-625.)
Glenn- ive seen your tensioners on the U-625- the hook type on the conning tower. I could not get the reference regarding the bowplane tensioners assembly anywhere on the net, apart from few scetchy drawings, and one, or 2 fuzzy pictures- where to be honest with you all you can see is that the cable is there, but how it is all made is not clear.
I was guided by picture of the Glen Buckners boat:
(http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/3028/glenbucknersboatqc4.jpg)
I was trying to replicate what hes done there.
Am i right or wrong? Is there fotografic evidence how the part looked like?
Hello,
I don't know if I can be of any help to you, but I have some German plans that may be can help. They are quite big and numerous, but I give you an exemple of what they show.
Here after is part of the plan of the GHG.
(http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9269/ghgla2.th.jpg) (http://img144.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ghgla2.jpg)
If you are interested I can scan the rest of the things that you need.
Cordially,
As I am actually working on the front inside parts, I think I will wait a bit until you have completed that part too before I go any further.
Sorry you can't watch it, but apparently they have displayed it over 800 times in less than an hour... I tried the link and it work on my computer, may be try again later.
In the mean time here are a few pictures:
Tiles details
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/2444/rubber1fi3.th.jpg) (http://img15.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rubber1fi3.jpg)
(http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/8895/rubber2oc0.th.jpg) (http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rubber2oc0.jpg)
On this one the finger at the bottom left corner gives you an idea of the scale ;)
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4177/rubber3ox9.th.jpg) (http://img5.imageshack.us/my.php?image=rubber3ox9.jpg)
:)
Does anyone know if the height between the top of the pressure hull and the deck was greater for the VIIC/41 compare to the VIIC? I measurement the distance and I find that the VIIC/41 is approximately 200 mm higher. Is this correct?
Was it higher to make more room for piping etc...?
(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/1299/graphic1hw1.jpg)
http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/plans/KM_Uboot_Type_II_1934/Do you know what the plate the with funny outline do?
I really dont know. The shape of it gives me ideas- it may be something to do with the capstan. Picture this:
lever is inserted in the slot, and wedged in the recess to release the clutch mechanism on the capstan ratchet? ???
Than theres two more of these slots on the stern of the boat- so i rally dont know. Maybe someone else can shed some light on it?Also...Do you know what this is call?
Not a clue my friend. But we have so many submarine eggheads here im sure your question will get answered. ;)
cant wait to see the new tamiya 1/35 type 2 boat when it comes out . the one siara turned us on to.
Id say yes. Looking at the shots of the props, you can see the blades are shaped in opposite directions.
The photo below is of U 993 on the 8th July 1943 -
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc118/dougie47/U993_8jul43.jpg)
The boat isn't finished yet. The engine dial is there. There is something where the compass repeater would usually go. The shelf on top hasn't been added yet. This is good for us as it allows us to see all the way forward to the area that would later be hidden under the shelf.
The photo below is of U 993 on the 8th July 1943 -
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc118/dougie47/U993_8jul43.jpg)
The boat isn't finished yet. The engine dial is there. There is something where the compass repeater would usually go. The shelf on top hasn't been added yet. This is good for us as it allows us to see all the way forward to the area that would later be hidden under the shelf.
Is the picture of the dial above, the angles of rudder or engine dial? As it looks more like the angles of rudder dial.
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4950/new1.jpg) (http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/9417/new2b.jpg)
angles of rudder dial engine dial
It was a dreadful day at the shipyard, the weather continues getting worse. The morning started with only light rain but by late morning the weather was awful, driving rain and strong winds. The dockworkers refuse to work outside today. They were keen to finish the deck of U-1308, the newest VIIC/41 in the fleet, nevertheless they all voted to work inside due to the weather. They decided to work in the aft battery room.
They installed the new 33 MAL 800 batteries and connected them all up, next they install the small maintenance trolley. They were nearly done with the aft battery room, when they heard the end-of-day whistle blow. Before the whistle finished, they had drop there tools and were halfway out the gate on there way home. There is always tomorrow to finish it ;D
I know that these pictures are of poor quality, but I was wondering if anyone know that these words are (red arrows).
Thanks, Simon
(http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3916/16206645.th.jpg) (http://img258.imageshack.us/i/16206645.jpg/) (http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/6483/new1j.th.jpg) (http://img258.imageshack.us/i/new1j.jpg/)
I know that these pictures are of poor quality, but I was wondering if anyone know that these words are (red arrows).
Thanks, Simon
(http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/3916/16206645.th.jpg) (http://img258.imageshack.us/i/16206645.jpg/) (http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/6483/new1j.th.jpg) (http://img258.imageshack.us/i/new1j.jpg/)
Hi Simon, the middle word in the small picture is: Gl
It was a dreadful day at the shipyard, the weather continues getting worse. The morning started with only light rain but by late morning the weather was awful, driving rain and strong winds. The dockworkers refuse to work outside today. They were keen to finish the deck of U-1308, the newest VIIC/41 in the fleet, nevertheless they all voted to work inside due to the weather. They decided to work in the aft battery room.
They installed the new 33 MAL 800 batteries and connected them all up, next they install the small maintenance trolley. They were nearly done with the aft battery room, when they heard the end-of-day whistle blow. Before the whistle finished, they had drop there tools and were halfway out the gate on there way home. There is always tomorrow to finish it ;D
(http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/1594/batteriesnk7.th.jpg) (http://img238.imageshack.us/my.php?image=batteriesnk7.jpg)
Torpedoes Loading Plans
While doing some research on the Lime-water system. I come across two set of plans for loading torpedoes. I had not seen these before, so though people may want to have a look. Happy viewing :)
Plan 1
http://www.uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXCS75-3PlateI.jpg (http://www.uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXCS75-3PlateI.jpg)
Plan 2
http://www.uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXCS75-3PlateII.jpg (http://www.uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXCS75-3PlateII.jpg)
Full Report
http://www.uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXC.htm (http://www.uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXC.htm)
Hi Ernest
I had some feedback also from Uboat.net, someone suggest the three words are: Farb (A color len), Gl
Hi Ernest
I had some feedback also from Uboat.net, someone suggest the three words are: Farb (A color len), Gl
Hi Ernest
I had some feedback also from Uboat.net, someone suggest the three words are: Farb (A color len), Gl
Hi All
I have seen this marking on a few switches, it look like a 'V' within a 'A' (lower right corner). Does anyone know the marking or the company?
Thanks, Simon.
(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/1755/img6303p.jpg)
Picture from http://www.uboataces.com/u995.shtml
Interesting.
What i was goin to say is- the change of angle on the rear of the deck is not sharp, but kinda soft- thus making the deck sloping gently.
On your drawings it looks almost like suden change of angle. What about rounding it a little- will it make the difference?
Hi gents,
You may be right about the second angle, Simon, but it is so hard to tell. I can't tell a noticeable second angle change in period photos. I'd favour Siara's advice on rounding it off as this would be a safer bet.
Cheers,
Dougie
Are you thinking of printing your drawings off in various scales?As the drawing is a vector base and I have scale all the nuts, bolts, rivets and steel to scale. I can scale the drawing to any small from 1:1 to 1:20,000 ;D But I will keep my poster to 1:43 scale which will make the drawing about 1,600 mm long.
I found something while searching balkon gerat... Thought there might be something useful knowledge.
http://www.cdvandt.org/schluessel_m4.htm (http://www.cdvandt.org/schluessel_m4.htm) M4 Enigma
http://www.cdvandt.org/Metox.pdf (http://www.cdvandt.org/Metox.pdf) Metox
Also info about GHG and balkon gerat + tons of stuff.
http://www.cdvandt.org/ (http://www.cdvandt.org/)
-Anakin-
Hi. New member here. Please excuse me if I screw up the proper format for posting since this is a new forum software that I'll have to learn how to use yet.
I've been building a 1:72 scale U-boat and had been searching for trunking and piping detail under the casing, since it's all going to be accessible in my model, and when I found NZSnowman's drawings they just blew me away. He's got exactly the data I've been looking for all this time and his drawings are terrific!!!!
NZSnowman asked: "I was laying in bed this morning and wondering why are the models 1:72 scale, why not 1:70 or 1:75 scale? Anyone know why 1:72 scale."
And dougie47 replied: "Aircraft model scales tend to be in 24th, 32nd, 48th, 72nd, and 144th scale. All numbers that we can divide by 8. This allows Airfix's new 1/24th Mosquito (with 617 parts by the way!) to be exactly twice the size of a 1/48th Mosquito. If 1/72nd had been rounded off to 1/75th we wouldn't be able to make such a comparison."
I think dougie is on the right track when he said that all the aircraft scales can be divided by 8. It was simply that in the early years of commercial model kits, (at least the ones that were mass marketed in the English speaking world and thus became well known, that they were all measured in inches and the full size item was measured in feet. It's much easier to divide inches by 1/4, 1/8, etc. than it is to divide by 10s, and this also works out easily with a foot.
Even though metric is used in most places now and measurements divisible by 10 make more sense, the scale standard had already been set in the largest model-making countries of the time.
Sorry I can't find the original post (I have a VERY slow dial-up and it took me about 3 days to go through this thread the first time).
but the question was regarding a couple of metal tanks on either side of the casing near the bow. somebody was wondering what the tanks were for, and it was suggested that they might have been for a net-cutter that had since been removed.
I think there was also a comment that a couple of similar tangs further back had had the hole welded shut.
As a sailor myself for 30 years, I find it hard to believe that any seaman would weld closed a hole in anything without a strong reason. Any holes serve as attachment points for all sorts of things in an emergency, such as heavy seas where they wanted to clip off a lifeline in a hurry. So unless they HAD to be closed (in which case, while you had the equipment out why not just cut the tang right off?), the openings would still be there.
My quess is that the tangs might be attachment points for the handwire that goes from bow to stern on the stanchions when the boat is in harbour. They'd simply clip on the wire at the bow and string it through all the removable stanchions until they get to the stern where there must be some other attachment points for the wire.
Another question had been asked about the "grapnels", the long poles attached at bow and stern of U-boats.
At least on the water and in marine supply stores, these "grapnels" look like what we call 'boat hooks'. Most modern ones are made of lightweight aluminum tubing, semi-sealed so that if they fall in the water, they'll float for about 5-10 minutes, or enough time to hopefully retrieve them.
Older ones, (and by older I mean 30+ years) were made of wood for the same reason. They wouldn't have been made of aluminum during the war because the aircraft industry needed all the aluminum it could get, so it wouldn't have been wasted on U-boats when wood would do.
This seems to be confirmed by the length of the boathook/grapne;s on the U-boats. Modern ones telescope down to about 1-2 meters in length but stretch out to as long as you can handle. Since wooden ones can't telescope, then they'd be made as long as possible right from the start.
Boathooks of course have all sorts of uses, but commonly are used to catch things floating on the surface (U-boats used to check garbage to see if they could learn anything about the ships they were hunting), catching and holding small boats that would come alongside (like inflatable rubber dinghys used to land operatives on shore), or men who had fallen overboard.
Modern boathooks have a straight point with a blunted tip and a curved, blunted hook underneath but I've seen variations on this in drawings of older boathooks, some with semicircles for the tips, some with Y-shaped ends, etc.
I might as well empty out all the things I've been saving up.
A while ago, Simon and Siara were debating about a couple of projections on either edge of the deck forward of the Turmembau (CT) near the large round hatch.
I'm not sure, but I think they're a variation on attachment points for the torpedo loading frame.
Take a look at a book called "Kreigsmarine U-boats, 1939-45 Vol1", by Gordon Williamson, Osprey Publishing (sorry, I don't have a scanner) on page 39 there is a photo which shows something similar in that location on the stb side and slightly forward of it on the pt side. Then on page 46 of the same book, there's a photo of men loading a torpedo through the deck hatch and the outside leg of the framework they're using is connected on the same point.
The only reason I can think of that the points might not be directly across from each other is that the torpedo loading hatch was slightly offset to stb and therefore the leg for the portside of the framework was longer and might have needed slightly different geometry for strength.
I thought of another one. Sorry if I'm being a pest with so many posts right together.
There was another exchange between Siara and Simon earlier asking about placement of cleats along the deck and trying to get the exact points of attachment.
While things such as the trunking and decl hatches would be pretty standard from one boat to another (especially ones from the same yard), cleats are something that probably weren't specified so exactly by the government. (Free flow holes are another and they vary considerably from one boat to another and from one year to another when the boat was built).
Just like the camouflage patterns were subject to the individual skipper's whim (although the colours available were standard, where they were applied was not), cleats are often welded or bolted to wherever the skipper felt a need and would probably be different from one boat to another. Like the holes in the tangs, once attached, it would be unusual for a cleat to be removed, so a new boat might have fewer cleats than one that's been in service for a long time.
I've seen lots of class boats of different types where the hull was the same for every boat in the class but minor things like cleats could be found in different places on different boats.
Some cleats probably were in standard locations (the ones at the back edges of the CT just under the point where the rails attach) but ones along the side of the deck amidships might be in different locations depending where bollards were on shore or on the submarine tender ships like 'Black Watch' (the ship that looked after my U-boat).
Simon, yes, this dial-up id driving me crazy. I think there
Thanks for the suggestion but I don
Ernest, if you want to look at any other sections of the interior, let me know, as I can post you the latest drawing.
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1051/galley.th.jpg) (http://img215.imageshack.us/i/galley.jpg/)
I have not research that the original colour (sorry color for you other people ;) ;D ) of the galley. Would be nice to know that is the original colour was.
Does anybody know what the colour of the deck in U-boats?
Looking in through the main CT hatch, the deck, ladder and some of the equip on the bulkheads will be visible in my model.
Photos of the inside of U-995 show the bulkheads as white as well as most of the piping and wiring, with the equipment being various colours depending on use and wheels being either red or black. The ladder is black, although I've seen it bare metal in other sources and white in still others.
But I don't recal seeing anything about the deck.
Anybody have other information?
Does anybody know what the colour of the deck in U-boats?
Looking in through the main CT hatch, the deck, ladder and some of the equip on the bulkheads will be visible in my model.
Photos of the inside of U-995 show the bulkheads as white as well as most of the piping and wiring, with the equipment being various colours depending on use and wheels being either red or black. The ladder is black, although I've seen it bare metal in other sources and white in still others.
But I don't recal seeing anything about the deck.
Anybody have other information?
Simon, it's not that I haven't been trying to post those pix for you, but when I tried to sign up to the hosting site, it all went well until the end. The confirmation email didn't come.
I still haven't received the confirmation email so that I can get started and when I tried a second time, it said that it already had another member with that email so I couldn't register again.
Thank you Simon. The galley was painted the same interior color as the rest of the uboot. The upper portion, the part above the blue in your drawing was painted RAL9001, which was an ivory white tone. The lower hull, the blue in your drawing, was RAL 9002 Greywhite.
Ernest(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1051/galley.th.jpg) (http://img215.imageshack.us/i/galley.jpg/)
I have not research that the original colour (sorry color for you other people ;) ;D ) of the galley. Would be nice to know that is the original colour was.
Another question.
What are the rectangular patches in the saddle tank just above and to the right of the raw water inlet? I know the water goes in via a square grill further forward, but those patches have me babbled. They don't seem to open up.
Hello Snowman
I've got question - what did you pattern after, when you were drawing torpedo tubes installations (pipes, rods etc)?
Snowman, I had another look at your photo of Jan 31, showing the raw seawater cooling inlet, and there's a small bump just above the inlet. I wonder if that's the paddlewheel opening, just covered over for preservation reasons? It looks possibly about the right size, and appears to project about the right amount.
The first time I drawn the torpedo tubes installations it was base on Anatomy of the ship - The Type VII U-Boat by David Westwood, a few original pictures taken during the war and pictures from U-995. It not very detail but it was the best I could do that the time.
I am planning to completely redraw the whole bow torpedo section & torpedo tubes, as over the last year or so I have collection some great pictures, plans and things. I think the next drawing should be a heap more detail. I am sure it will show all the pipes and working parts ;D
The first time I drawn the torpedo tubes installations it was base on Anatomy of the ship - The Type VII U-Boat by David Westwood, a few original pictures taken during the war and pictures from U-995. It not very detail but it was the best I could do that the time.
I have seen this picture - it's the best drawing I have seen till now (unfortunately, I didn't have seen many of them). The same is
in Urlich Gabler's "Submarine Design", and I think that the latter is more correct subtitled.Quote from: NZSnowmanI am planning to completely redraw the whole bow torpedo section & torpedo tubes, as over the last year or so I have collection some great pictures, plans and things. I think the next drawing should be a heap more detail. I am sure it will show all the pipes and working parts ;D
I'm specially interested in the interolocking and firing rod details. Is it possible that you would share some of these details before your work will complete?
--
Regards
Maciek
You
It also needs an outlet not far behind it. Otherwise, the water gets in, can't get out and no speed is registered.
I wonder if they change the speedometer system for the Type VIIC ???
Maciek, would changing the location of the inlets affect the speedometer? Would shipyard need to reset system (e.g. does the length of the pipe affect the speedometer?)
Why do you think the shipyard would feel the need to change the location?
I tried to check the bow of U-995 but the whole bow of U-995 as be replace :(
Well, hi to everyone... I'm a novice in your forum and I'd like starting telling this crazy thing: ::)
I've been giving rounds in my mind to build slowly (I'm not in a hurry... ), a U-boat in scale 1/6 for my soldiers, and althought I'm conscious it may be a suicide idea, I wouldn't like to leave at least without trying it before...
Over all, I had thought for solving the problem of the large size of the length (we would be talking about almost 11 meters), I'd made it by parts: 6 parts of 1,5m and the last: the middle in 2m.
Anyway, all these ideas are focus to the same idea: to build an u-boat in scale 1/6... and I was wondering if someone could help me get some decent levels but then had to expand or something similar.
That's all... Thanks in advance. ;)
NZ -that top link is WOW!!! thanks! many folks here would share that dream I'm sure!
Jooy - it IS possible. Someone near me has started building a full scale Spitfire. keep us posted. When you say "get some decent levels" what do you mean?
In this picture you can see the Pitot Tube right on the bow line.
But anyway, as I've said, the cutwater is a poor place to put any sort of speed measuring device, for several reasons. It's just a slight improvement on putting it at the stern around the propellers and dive planes. It won't give an accurate reading at the stem and if a boat was to spend any time on the surface, in cloudy weather where they can't take a sextant sighting, then it could throw them off course. It can't be a standard location. I'll go with a pitot tube type measuring device, but not there other than experimental on a few boats.
I couldn't find 'fairwater' referring to subs, but isn't that the bulge in the front of the CT? (At least when referring to the gyrocompass - there can be many fairwaters on a boat) I'd thought the gyro was inside the fairwater but according to Snowman's pic, it's inside the control room. Is one of them a repeater?
however, there is a second gyrocompass in the U-Boat but I am unsure where.
I saw the gyro-compass labeled as "Master Gyro-compass" in Anatomy of the ship: The Type VII U-Boat by D. Westwood and I just assume there was a second one on U-boats.
Does anyone know if the keel of the Type VII is solid or made up of frames?
same for me, sure I've seen a pic. I THINK it's solid (or solid from big chunks) for weight.
Just a guess, but the standard material for ballast keels is lead. They want the heaviest but cheapest material they can get to take up the least amount of space while lowering the centre of gravity so the boat rolls less. It would definitely not be iron as that would corrode too quickly, and not likely steel because it isn't heavy enough and they need it more elsewhere.
If there are access hatches to the keel, that sounds like they might want to at least inspect it once in a while for corrosion and to clean out the limber holes so that any water will drain to a sump where it can be pumped out. The limber holes on many ships often have a small chain running for and aft that could be pulled to drag out any gunk that got stuck in the holes, blocking the free flow of water.
Simon, I don't know if there'd be any anti-corrosive coating on lead keel blocks or not. My guess is not, because they're carried inside the steel of the keel so aren't exposed directly to water.
I can't imagine that the KM didn't paint their steel hulls with anti0corrosive paint, which is that same dull red you often see the beams for bridges and buildings during construction. The hull of Greif's Bismark is probably that colour below a dark band at the waterline.
Going back to the keel ballast question. Would the lead blocks be painted with anything, e.g. like anti-corrosion?
Hello SimonGoing back to the keel ballast question. Would the lead blocks be painted with anything, e.g. like anti-corrosion?
According to
http://www.ubootarchiv.de/dieboote/farben_maerz_1940.html
http://www.ubootarchiv.de/dieboote/farben_juli_1944.html
keel ballast was painted grey.
--
Regards
Maciek
Did a bit more research and see that I had one thing wrong about the galvanic corrosion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion
Anodic index (edited)
Gold, solid and plated, Gold-platinum alloy 0.00
Silver, solid or plated; monel metal. High nickel-copper alloys 0.15
Nickel, solid or plated, titanium an s alloys, Monel 0.30
Copper, solid or plated; low brasses or bronzes; silver solder; German silvery high copper-nickel alloys; nickel-chromium alloys 0.35
Brass and bronzes 0.40
High brasses and bronzes 0.45
18% chromium type corrosion-resistant steels 0.50
Chromium plated; tin plated; 12% chromium type corrosion-resistant steels 0.60
Tin-plate; tin-lead solder 0.65
Lead, solid or plated; high lead alloys 0.70
Iron, wrought, gray or malleable, plain carbon and low alloy steels 0.85
Aluminum, cast alloys other than silicon type, cadmium, plated and chromate 0.95
Hot-dip-zinc plate; galvanized steel 1.20
Zinc, wrought; zinc-base die-casting alloys; zinc plated 1.25
From the above chart, lead is more 'noble' than iron/mild steel, so the lead in ballast will not corrode. Zinc is the lowest one on the scale (higher number means it corrodes faster), so that's why it's used as a sacrificial anode. You can see from the chart why stainless steel (high chromium) is used in so many marine applications, and why brass was used in the old sailing ships, before stainless steel was invented.
Powdered copper and tin are what is put into anti-fouling paints to keep barnacles, algae and marine life from attaching to the hulls. Why it changes colour to slate grey/black after it's been in the water for a while, I don't know. But it's because of that I suspect that even though at launching the hull of a U-boat might be dark grey, I think it will probably get darker with immersion.
(http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/5143/updatel.png) Turbo blower for the Port Diesel Engine
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/2695/img6494.jpg) (http://img200.imageshack.us/img200/9376/typeviic411.jpg)
That's an interesting story about the Metoz and the bomber crews Snowman. What year was that happening and was it ALL Allied bomber crews or just the ones of one nation?
I've been tossing around the idea of writing a book about what I know of my father's war, and it might be something that he was involved in. He was shot down in Feb '44, over Germany and as a Pathfinder, he would have been involved in radar and radar detection and electronic navigation (Oboe) before it was common among the RAF crews.
Clever! Intrigue! Like the "man who never was" - Brits put fake invasion plans on a dead body, dumped in the ocean with plane debris, and let it be discovered in Spain. Great triple twists!
Does anyone know how the aft torpedo door work? As the plans do not seem to match the real pictures.
Does anyone know the diameter of the propeller shaft or main drive shaft?
You mean rear door of the tube (interior door)?
There was a door supported by the hinge. On the rear edge/end of the tube was rotating ring with
some kind of bayonet screw, which locked closed door.
There is also a gear, to which can be attached a hand lever, and which is used to rotate a lcoking ring
Where did you find that photo?
It's a good shot.
only in Gatos
I have seen hp air flask on type XXI photos.Hi Maciek
--
Regards
Maciek
Many thanks to eveyone for the information on the bridge. I am going to work on this over the weekend :)
How did the voice pipe work ??? I can not imagine the voice pipe went through the pressure hull.
Good question on the voice pipe, what a terrible hull penetration! Even if you relied on outside pressure keeping a cap shut, scary [insert 3 stooges "nnnnnaaaaaaah" scary noise here]
Interesting point, NZ, but then, the Germans were looking at a lot of almost sci-fi stuff, maybe it wasn't very secret. I think it's also ironic that the Metox lead Allies directly to it!
Yes lots of talk about secret sci-fi stuff!! Herbert talks a lot about a 'Secret Dead Ray' ;D ;D
I have been doing a lot reading about Metox and I think the new thought about it is.
Yes the Metox did emitted a weak signal and the Allies could detection this sign. However, it now believe that the signal was so weak that it could not be used to track U-Boats. About this time the Allies started to hear rumor that the Germans were starting to think that the Allies were homing into the Metox. So the Allies started a rumor that they could detection the Metox sign. I think they did this by telling Bombing crews, know that a few of them would be shot down over Germany. As soon the Germans hear that Allies could detection the Metox sign they toll all U-boat to stop using them. This was just what the Allies wanted. Now the Allies could used there radar with good results.
Clever! Intrigue! Like the "man who never was" - Brits put fake invasion plans on a dead body, dumped in the ocean with plane debris, and let it be discovered in Spain. Great triple twists!
That's an interesting story about the Metoz and the bomber crews Snowman. What year was that happening and was it ALL Allied bomber crews or just the ones of one nation?
I've been tossing around the idea of writing a book about what I know of my father's war, and it might be something that he was involved in. He was shot down in Feb '44, over Germany and as a Pathfinder, he would have been involved in radar and radar detection and electronic navigation (Oboe) before it was common among the RAF crews.
Doenitz ordered all U-boats to cause using the Metox on 31 July 1943, So the Brits, may have started the rumor a month or a few weeks before this. Maybe the started rumor with several SOE (Special Operations Executive) members going to a flying crew bar and going around starting this rumor knowing that the SS or Gestapo would end up with the information if they crash. Or maybe they crash a plane into France and made it look like it could track Metox signals :-\ I just not sure how they started the rumor. Maybe, in the next 20 years they may release a document with all the secret in it ;D
I am not to sure about a foot/hand hold :-\, it seem to be in a funny position but what would be a good position. I will check all my books and pictures over the next couple of days and see if I found anything.
I had imagine a foot/hand hold would be smaller like on the Gatos and I would think if a Type VII
Congratulation for your promotion Admiral Simon! ;D
Hi Simon,
Unfortunately I don
Hello All
I would to introduce myself. I'm Simon Morris from New Zealand. For the last 10 months I have been drawing a 1:60 scale of a general VIIC/41. Durying this time a few quection pop up about the VIIC/41. I am hope that you guys can help my with a few :)
Here is my first question.
I am looking for the other none water markings, I have seem to found mark II, III & V. I am looking for mark I & IV. I am thinking they are both on the port side of the boat, but i can not found them in the pictures i have of U-995. Does anyone found where they are?
Hull Marking (2 MB) http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ghtymnymh3n
But here is an image from CV 707 / Type IIA torpedo tube manual.
(T21722_21_2b Military Archives in Finnish National Archives)
Digitization is going on in Finnish National Archives.
But the work will take lots of time.
For example war diaries are already in digital form.
It will take years before we can watch u-boat plans in internet. :-[
I
Digitization is going on in Finnish National Archives.
But the work will take lots of time.
For example war diaries are already in digital form.
It will take years before we can watch u-boat plans in internet. :-[
I
Hi All
I have two plans that illustrate the aft Battery Hatch, but they are both in different location :( Does anyone know the correct location for the aft Battery Hatch?
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/3843/batt1.jpg)
Fig. 1. Battery Hatch location between frame number 41 and 42.
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/5104/batt2.jpg)
Fig. 2. Battery Hatch location between frame number 44 and 45.
Thanks, Simon
Thank for your excellent engine room drawing. I dare say that drawing has more than a few objects in Coreldraw!
I
Hello Simon
Here is a link for many Boxes http://wehrmachts.kisten.free.fr/
Hi All
Here is a small way to thanks all the people who have helped me over the last two years with my drawing.
I have prepared a 1:24 scale poster of a Type VIIC engine room. The poster is primly to be printer at A3 size, nevertheless, as the drawing is in a PDF format (12MB) it is possible to print it at any page size, without any lost of detail.
I welcome any feed back, mistakes etc
I was wondering that others think as to how far I should take this row, either to the 'top of the deck' or to the other row of 'double rivets' (in blue which is also missing on U-995)?
- at the first drawings I saw you had only 16 GHG receiver for the VIIC41 should be 24 GHG receiver each side (the early VIIC was only 11 each side)
- The S Ger
Hello Simon,
regarding the drainage holes (No. 9 & 18), I don`t remember drydock pics from VIIC/41, but the Laboe Boot U-995 did not have this drainage holes. Did Westwood wrote what time they was added.
Hi Simon,
Congrats to the French dock workers, they must be good at riveting by now!
Your Atlantic bow question is a good one, though difficult to resolve with any level of certainty. I wouldn't be surprised if the Atlantic bow varied between shipyards? I don't think I could tell the difference between tapering back to 79 or 104 using period photos. My guess - and it is only a guess - for VIIC/41s would be tapering back to 79.
Regarding the vents at the stern in Westwood's VIIC/41 plan, I've never seen them on any VIIC or VIIC/41 photo. Notice that he also has these vents on the VIID and VIIF plans. I wonder if they originated from a VIID or VIIF plan and Westwood incorrectly applied them to his VIIC/41 profile? I haven't seen this area of a VIIF (or for that matter a VIID) so it may be possible these vents were on VIIFs?
Cheers,
Dougie
Hello Simon,
great job on the rivets!!! Regarding the drainage holes I guess Dougie had the solution. I have not much info about the VIIF but I start a little bit resarch at the VIID (have one at the bench ;D). The VIID I can say for sure U-217 had additional openings under the waterline at the bow section, if U-217 had these openings I gess also the other VIID had these openings and if they make additional openings under the waterline at the bow, why not at the stern .... of course it is guessing. They was all launched from 24.07.1941 till 05.12.1941 all builded from Germaniawerft, Kiel. The VIIF was also launched from Germaniawerft but later between 13.03.1943 and 08.05.1943.
Sorry with the bow.... I was trying to find out what time and wich boat they started to use the Atlantic bow..... for the moment I give it up to find out ::) but I will be on it in the end of this year, I will visit the U-Boot archive in my hometown, hope to find out several stuff there. Maybe I should open a thread, for questions I can try to find out there ?
Seewolf, was the SU-Apparat
Hi Simon,
My apologies for my delay in replying, I have been on paternity leave recently and have had no spare time. Below are a few shots of the late UZO. They aren't great - as always we need better resources. Your house looks brilliant, as do your posters on the wall.
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc118/dougie47/UZO_late_U1004.jpg)
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc118/dougie47/UZO_late_U994_2.jpg)
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc118/dougie47/UZO_late.jpg)
Cheers,
Dougie
From my previous post about the late war UZO you can see in my drawing the power cable exiting out the bottom of the UZO support column. In the picture below you can see this cable entering the Conning tower (Green Arrow). If you look at all the cable openings in the Conning tower they all have small valve on them (Red Arrows). Why have valve ???
Is it to drain water out of the opening ??? or to pressure the seals with high air pressure ??? or to add oil ??? Does anyone know or have any commons ???
(http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/3861/new1wm.jpg)
Thanks, Pat for your reply :) :)
I did not noted they are all ball valves, but make sense! However, one thing I can not get my head around is, if there no valve on a through-hull opening would that not mean one less place to leaks from ???
I wonder if the small pipes to each valve are for high pressure air to stop water coming in, in a full emergency. If your boat is sinking fast it better to have a few bubblers on the surface than be at the bottom at 4000m. What your thought on this Pat ???
Hi Simon,QuoteSeewolf, was the SU-Apparat
I have always thought that there were two TDC on a U-Boat, one in the Conning tower and one in the Control Room. However, now I believe there was only one in the Conning tower. Can anyone confirm this for me?
(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/7454/tdc.th.jpg) (http://img35.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tdc.jpg)
Attack periscope & TDC within the Conning tower :)
Have you got the labels or descriptions of all dials you have drawn?
Here is a clearer picture of U-995 TDC also. Not sure if this will be important to you but I base my drawing of the TDC from U-505 as I initial thought that there were two different TDC on a U-boat and I want to base my drawing of the TDC from the CT. Now I know there is only one aboard each boat.
It look like a Type IX TDC are vertical and the Type VII
The French dock workers are extremely happy today as the keel for U-1308 was laid and finish today :) :) this include all 1,461 rivets ;D ;D
The French dock workers are working extremely hard this week, as they know the shipyard will be closing in about 2 weeks for the winter...and added the new Balcon Ger
Does anyone know the diameter of the Torpedos tube ???
I am thinking around 561mm = (533mm + 2 x (the steel looks like 12mm + 2mm free ride))
Does anyone know the diameter of the Torpedos tube ???
I am thinking around 561mm = (533mm + 2 x (the steel looks like 12mm + 2mm free ride))
Bugtorpedorohren / Hecketorpedorohr
* Smaller rod is unknown to me, I think set something near the torpedo warhead :-\
* Large pipe (right) at top of torpedo tube is used to let sea water in.
* Oil lines to bearing, I believe run to upper deck, as there no evidence that they go back into the Pressure Hull & there no access into the Bow Diving Tank. I am thinking they run up to around Frame 96 (which is near the end of wooden deck) as there a hatch in is area.
I have no pictures of the underside of torpedo tube, so I consider that is pipe must be the sea water inlet.
One things:
Do you know where the sea water came from? Did they just get it from within the bow casting?
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/9204/70950212.th.jpg) (http://img443.imageshack.us/i/70950212.jpg/)
Fig. 2. Outer Torpedo Tube within Bow Diving Tank.
It was a dreadful day at the shipyard, the weather continues getting worse. The morning started with only light rain but by late morning the weather was awful, driving rain and strong winds. The dockworkers refuse to work outside today. They were keen to finish the deck of U-1308, the newest VIIC/41 in the fleet, nevertheless they all voted to work inside due to the weather. They decided to work in the aft battery room.
They installed the new 33 MAL 800 batteries and connected them all up, next they install the small maintenance trolley. They were nearly done with the aft battery room, when they heard the end-of-day whistle blow. Before the whistle finished, they had drop there tools and were halfway out the gate on there way home. There is always tomorrow to finish it ;D
Now all the dockworkers were standing before the large iron gates of the shipyard that have been locked for the last few months. They were all keen and yearning to go back to work on U-1308 and finish this last boast of the VIIC’s series however the gates had been firmly locked now for the whole of the winter. One of the dockworker had heard that the foreman had to got a ‘real world job’ during the winter. Other dockworkers were heard asking what was this ‘real world job’ but none of them know that is was. One dockworkers also heard that a few eager guys had climbed the gates a month back and spend an hours working on the boat. As all the dockworkers decided were was no point waiting by the gates a little boy run by the group to the gates and pin up a small note that reads “The shipyard will reopen in spring”. All the dockworkers were happy and delight. This was good news to go home with! ;D
Hi Simon
To be honest, I can not imagine these construction. Could you attach a sketch with lines marking the connection between these parts of tube?
--
Regards
Maciek
(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/4462/pipese.th.jpg) (http://img688.imageshack.us/i/pipese.jpg/)
Fig. 1. Top Drawing - Side View with bolts holes & Bottom Drawing - Top view cross-section.
Sections
Green = Internal torpedo tube section (bow section)
Red = Section 1 of outer torpedo tube (within Bow Diving Tank).
Purple = Section 2 of outer torpedo tube (within Bow Diving Tank).
Orange = Section 3 of outer torpedo tube (within Bow Diving Tank).
Copper = Small section of outer torpedo tube (within torpedo outer door).
Yellow = A small gasket I believe :-\
Blue = Bow cap Casting
Hi Simon
Thanks for photos.
I have seen the first photo before, but I have not associated it with submarine tube (but it clearly is).
The second photo is interensting - it seems like aft (nearer pressure hull) part of the lower port torpedo tube.
This part of tube is very rarely pictured ;(
--
Regards
Maciek
Hello guys,
Pat, I can't recall the source off the top of my head (it's been a few years since I wrote the colours article) but I was told the UT and GHG covers were unpainted bronze. This is on P41 of "The Wolf Pack".
Cheers,
Dougie
Dougie, bronze or copper, being metal just seems odd to me for what's basically a microphone cover. Copper is a basic ingredient of antifouling coatings, (as is tin back in those days). Since bronze is an alloy with copper but it doesn't turn green the same way, it might be a little more likely.
The UT and GHG would basically be analagous to the depth sounders of today, which are a very thick black plastic of some sort, but then, in WWII, they may not have had such types of plastic, or if they did, couldn't divert the petroleum resources to making it. That might have been a reason for using metal.
Any idea how they transmitted sound if they were metal?
Does anyone have the old old links for the 360 deg view of U-505? I seems to lose them here :(A little more searching and I found the link http://archive.msichicago.org/exhibit/U505/virtualtour/vr_tour/index.html (http://archive.msichicago.org/exhibit/U505/virtualtour/vr_tour/index.html)
Hi Simon,
Yeah, you'll need a compass repeater, engine dial and voicepipe. Have a look at this photo -
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc118/dougie47/U995_tower.jpg)
It is of U 995 after her Norwegian service. Now there may have been changes made by the Norwegians. But I don't have a photo of the "dashboard" of a wartime VIIC/41. You can see the compass repeater and engine dial are in the usual location, as on VIICs. The viocepipe is in the usual location to the starboard side (but is partially obscured by the periscope base).
Remember that a shelf was fitted to the VIICs and VIIC/41s from mid-war or so. The photos of U 377 show an example of this shelf, which was usually flat. Note there would be a hole in this shelf to allow access for the sky periscope.
Cheers,
Dougie
I don't think that the german navy/ goverment will "waste" money on a military monument of that time. political correctness. germany does not feel easy at all when it comes to anything connected with the nazi time. which is o.k., don't You think?
U-995 is a monument for all those who died, it's sort of a monument on a graveyard. let's be thankfull that it's there at all!
(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/5737/fumb35.th.jpg) (http://img36.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fumb35.jpg)
The atteck periscope (middle); the FuMB-9 Wanze (left) and the FuMB-35 Athos (right) (both passive radar detection) with pictures of U-249.
....While I was looking up the 37mm FlaK for Le Bosco,......Pat I would not like to make you work in hours of overtime (I do not pay them :D :D :D ;))
Hi Simon,
Nice work on the Hohentwiel and other recent drawings. There are two photos on Ebay that might help you with the Askania magnetic compass fairing.
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-U-Boot-957-Bergen-Norwegen-Soldaten-Kpt-Schaar-/380261057484?pt=Militaria#ht_2332wt_911
http://cgi.ebay.de/Foto-U-Boot-957-Bergen-Norwegen-Soldaten-Kpt-Schaar-/380261057495?pt=Militaria#ht_2341wt_911
The first photo shows the trailing edge quite well.
Cheers,
Dougie
I've not seen a photo of the inside of the magnetic compass fairing. The closest photo is on page 22 of Vom Original zum VIIC. Does the German caption below this photo shed any light?
The other thing to consider is that the Askania fairing might have functioned slightly differently to the earlier type of fairing. There must have been a reason to change to the Askania. Perhaps Askania was a company name or a brand name?
Also the shape of ther Askania would, I would think, be hydronamically inferior to the old fairing?
Dougie, do you know what it looks like under the fairing? I read somewhere that the compass sit outside the hull and there a system of mirrors, including a small glass window in the pressure hull that project the compass dial in to the control room :-\
Also the shape of ther Askania would, I would think, be hydronamically inferior to the old fairing?
"The magnetic compass is a standard compass mounted in a pressure-proof case in the superstructure forward of the conning tower fairwater. Lighting is provided, and an optical train leads through the pressure hull to the steering station in the control room, where the image of the rose and azimuth circle appears on a ground glass screen."
I had a look for this in my photo
Does anyone have and seen a picture of the High pressure air bottles under the deck ???
Group A high pressure air bottles are seated much higher under the deck than I imagine. It looks like the drawing in David Westwood book was correct. Maybe seating the bottles this way was to let the water drain to the bottom of the bottle ???
actually it prevents the boat from steering off a straight line:the torque is reffered to as, P factor. This is also applied to aircraft. Dual props that are counter rotating cancel out this. On a single engine aircraft it is nessissary to counter this effect, by applying rudder in the direction of the rotation of the prop as the torque is in the opposie direction of the rotation and has the tendency to direct the heading in that direction
given that the pressure is different on top and bottom of the screw, it gives the stern the tendency to steer to the right with a clockwise rotation of the screw.
usefull when you want to bring the stern to the quay........
the roll in the pattern while the steel is hot?
Simon
Just wanted to say hi Simon! Its been a while since my last post. I had a very busy racing season in road cycling and did not get online much between the beginning of April and now. You drawings are top notch as always. How did the ski season go in NZ?
Ernest
Just wanted to say hi Simon! Its been a while since my last post. I had a very busy racing season in road cycling and did not get online much between the beginning of April and now. You drawings are top notch as always. How did the ski season go in NZ?
Ernest
I had little time this week to work on U-1308 as I am busy writing my end of winter weather report. Yesterday I got to the point that I need a break, so I decided to reinstall an old computer game
Does anyone know what colour the fuel oil was on the U-Boats?
Where in the list does it give the colour of the diesel SnakeDoc?
Beyond the obvious, that there's a main battery switch there, no. I know more about the inside of a U-boat with great thanks to your drawings than from any other source.
What I can say is that a modern surface boat usually has a battery switch that isolates certain batteries (or in the case of a U-boat, would isolate entire banks of batteries) so that you can draw power from one battery while the other(s) are either being serviced, charged or restricted to other purposes.
For instance, on my boat, I'll usually start/run the engine with one battery while I reserve the other battery for the electronics. The reason for that is that it ensures that if I run down a battery through electronics, I'll have a freshly charged battery available still for emergency starting/navigating.distress call. On alternate days, I switch which battery does which job so that one is always being charged.
The main switch can also join ALL batteries together at once for a heavy use (off, battery one, all, battery two) but you usually wouldn't run both together since the fresher battery will always hog the charge from the alternator (magneto on a sub?) and not distribute it evenly over both batteries.
The 'off' position is used when the boat is in port and not being used because there is a tendency for boats (and this would be worse for a steel-hulled boat) of power leakage and galvanic action with anything in the water, so you turn the batteries off when not needed to minimize this risk.
That's also the reason for the zincs on the aft dive planes, rudders and prop shaft supports that we talked about in a past exchange.
I'd guess that the main switch on a U-boat would function in a similar way but be more complex since there are many more batteries involved and the systems are more critical. Probably it would have more settings and more possible ways of hooking up the batteries together?
One more thing is that every battery switch I've ever seen on a boat has always been a fire-engine red. Don't know if that would necessarily be the case with WWII U-boats, but it seems likely.
Why did they change from bronze propellers to steel propellers from about January 1942 ???
Edit
Was it because of bronze shortage ???
I've spent a couple of hours looking for any advantages of stainless steel propellors over bronze and so far haven't found much. It seems that bronze is a much better material for boat propellors than stainless steel, being cheaper, lighter, less brittle, easier to repair and having a lower friction coefficient.
So the only thing left that makes sense would be a shortage of bronze midway through the war. Since England is known for large deposits of tin even since prehistoric times, it was likely a lack of tin that was the problem. Tin is alloyed with copper to make bronze.
I can verify that bronze is better. About 15 years ago, my propellor, which is bronze, got nicked by hitting a floating tire with a steel wheel inside. I was able to get the propellor repaired quite easily. I've been told that with similar damage to a stainless steel propellor it would have been a write-off.
If you're building a boat with a bronze propellor, the colour should be flat bronze, almost, but not quite oxidized to a pale green. Think of the green of copper roofs but not so bright and mixed with a light brown. Boat propellors do not go as dark as bronze statues but maintain a slight beige-orange-yellow hue in with the green.
If modelling a stainless steel propellor, it should be silver but shinier than a silver coin. Almost, but not quite, mirror-like. Think of the colour of a kitchen knife and almost as shiny. Stainless steel props do not go flat unless in extremely sandy conditions.
Does anyone know what was inside the
Does anyone know what was inside the
.... I was trying to found a little about the history of these plans. How they were found and redrawn. I believe they were found sometime after the war (60’s ???) and redrawn during the 80’s and 90’s. The reason why I am after this information is, over the last two or three weeks I been doing a lot of research on the high/low air lines that run under the deck but outside the pressure hull. I have looked at numerous sets of plans, schematises drawing and photographs and this morning I came to the conclusion that the air lines drawn on these set of plans are almost useless. They are inaccurate, and most lines are absent, so air lines are drawn in area there are no hull openings or just does not make sense to put them there.
I was trying to found how the errors happen. Did it happen while redrawing, or are the errors on the original plans? I mostly believe the errors happen while redrawing. Likely the original plans were very hard to read and a few air lines were missed or so lines were assume to be air lines but were in fact, other systems.
Does anyone know if they water cool the hot exhaust gases before venting them out from the boat ???
5. The cooling water flows round the exhaust manifold, the group exhaust jacket, and thence to jacketing round the muffler valve and silencer. Finally it is led to a gravity tank in the after side of the bridge casing where it is used to compensate fuel from the external and internal O.F. tanks.
Hello Simon
Does anyone know how the aft torpedo door work? As the plans do not seem to match the real pictures.
You mean rear door of the tube (interior door)?
There was a door supported by the hinge. On the rear edge/end of the tube was rotating ring with
some kind of bayonet screw, which locked closed door.
There is also a gear, to which can be attached a hand lever, and which is used to rotate a lcoking ring
(at about 5 hour ;) on the below image).
To the locking ring were also attached angle plate, which was used to interlock some operations.
See also photos on u-historia - you will see parts described above.
--
Regards
Maciek
Sorry, good point. I was talking about the outer door. On the plans it looks like it hinge at the top and the whole door left up
I can not imagine that these taps are the original German taps, does anyone know what they would look like? (Or are they the original tap?)
Thanks, Simon.
(http://www.u-historia.com/uhistoria/tecnico/visitaguiada/cocinaiwc/fregadero-a.jpg)
Picture from http://www.u-historia.com/ (http://www.u-historia.com/)
Maciek, I forgot to add, almost all of the pictures I have of the under deck have come from U-534 while she was being cut up. I have some excellent pictures of the framing, piping etc
Does anyone know the dimensions of the pressure hull for the conning tower for a Type VII’s? I have 2950 mm for its length and I am after its width.
Thanks, Simon
Does anyone have Vom Original zum Modell, Uboottyp IXC or the 'Construction designs plans' for the Type IXC?
I have a very poor scan of Plan 7, I am after the measurements from
Does anyone know the dimensions of the pressure hull for the conning tower for a Type VII
Does anyone have Vom Original zum Modell, Uboottyp IXC or the 'Construction designs plans' for the Type IXC?
I have a very poor scan of Plan 7, I am after the measurements from
Thanks DB Andrus :) I will post my results of the Schnorchel system when I finish it. It
Hi Pat.
After more research on the Schnorchel and U-995 (This whole Schnorchel system is a nightmare >:( - photographs don
Beautiful work as always Simon. I am glad you managed to retain your sanity while researching the schnorkel! ;)
Ernest
So far I have found 3 styles of schnorkel head and 3 styles of schnorkel piping. I am drawing them up now and hope to have most of them finish this weekend.
Simon
beautiful drawings, and quite useful!
Hi SNZ,
Check your mail...
Cheers,
Pepper-M
Hi Simon,
I think you are right about U 995 fairing, it could well be changed in the 1958-1965 period. The photo which confused me is on the right hand side of P115 in Wetzel's book. To my eyes it looks like S 308 (ex U 1202, sailing in the background) has the old mag fairing. And S 309 (ex U 995, moored in the foreground) has the Askania fairing exposed for maintenance. At least that's what it looks like to me, I'm not sure.
However the third image down on P111 shows the old style of fairing. I presume these colour underwater shots are of U 995 but don't know the date.
Great shots in that book.
Cheers,
Dougie
...
Does anyone have a picture where the aerial cables join the deck in the stern?
...
Simon
Yes Simon ;D thanks. I thought they sealed the aft torp. door. so i had doubts about the "look" comparing to your drawings.
On the picture do we see the original door ?
But it's 100% clear now.
Cheers.
PS.: Snowboard season is beginning...
Does anyone know what was inside the
Does anyone know what was inside the
Hi Simon, unfortunately I can't find the darn pictures. I also looked at some websites trying to find a shot of the location without luck unfortunately.
ErnestDoes anyone know what was inside the
HD in your mail box + enigma
;)
Simon,
going back a couple of days only, the "Steam heating system inlet, Fuel oil inlet & Engine lubricating oil inlet"....found couple of good pics I think:
(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_FaFEYk1xjY8/TQUDfVJjbwI/AAAAAAAAAoE/VHmJhNgr7zo/s640/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101II-MW-6434-34%2C_St._Nazaire%2C_U-Boot_einlaufend.jpg) (http://lh3.ggpht.com/_FaFEYk1xjY8/TQUDAWyw__I/AAAAAAAAAoA/g3_HMGS4dWQ/s512/u4041va4.jpg)
Cheers!
Hi Maciek, Rokket & Pat
Going way back to our converse about the 'dynamic pressure' inlets for the speedometer in February of this year. http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=106.msg4505#msg4505 (http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=106.msg4505#msg4505)
Found this picture of U-543, over at subsim.com from dachshund
(http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=19&pictureid=61)
Thanks! I just found them in my Junk E-mail folder >:( Not sure why its just started putting your email in my Junk E-mail folder :-\
copper tubes - interesting. Gatos were bronze. In fact, heaps of the piping was bronze, but painted, you assume steel.
Do you know why the aft and bow inside torpedo tube look different?
Also during your research have you come across any information about the oil lines? I am trying to find out what the tubing is made of. On the outer torpedo tube at Laboe Naval Memorial it show copper tubings, but I unsure if it is original.
I started a Wikipedia page today on U-1308. It in no way finish, will slowing keep updating it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-1308 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-1308)
Anyway, they look like they could be inlets for water speed but I'm still hesitant on that diagnosis.
The same objections as before still apply, that in rough weather, they'd give false readings when the bow cam out of the water on high waves.
Since then, I also wondered about their accuracy at different depths. Since they'd have to work on pressure, the speed reading would differe depending on depth. That doesn't seem workable. A paddle-whell type knotmeter still makes more sense.
Also, while those are definitely there for a purpose, they don't seem to be standard since most pictures I've seen, there definitely isn't something like that in that location.
Quote from: PatAlso, while those are definitely there for a purpose, they don't seem to be standard since most pictures I've seen, there definitely isn't something like that in that location.
I think that the way how bow nozzles were installed was dependent from shipyard (similary as flooding holes) - sometimes
it was installed under the casing, covered by some grid, sometimes it was derived outside...
--
Regards
Maciek
Way back in February 2009 we had a discussion about a TV program on U-480 and Alberich. http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=106.msg1624#msg1624 (http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=106.msg1624#msg1624)
I just found it on YouTube
Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkZFXNbkz2w&p=E5760B8C205BDAEA&playnext=1&index=7 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkZFXNbkz2w&p=E5760B8C205BDAEA&playnext=1&index=7)
Part 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GCQ8Ava16M&p=E5760B8C205BDAEA&playnext=1&index=8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GCQ8Ava16M&p=E5760B8C205BDAEA&playnext=1&index=8)
Part 3 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zarO5W1nR3M&playnext=1&list=PLE5760B8C205BDAEA&index=9 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zarO5W1nR3M&playnext=1&list=PLE5760B8C205BDAEA&index=9)
Part 4 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etKvM-mgae4&p=E5760B8C205BDAEA&index=11&playnext=2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etKvM-mgae4&p=E5760B8C205BDAEA&index=11&playnext=2)
Part 5 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwuclvdJlkw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwuclvdJlkw)
I was wondering have you seen any information for either magnetic or gyro compass for the Gato? I been looking for information for the U-boat but not having much luck :(
Until World War II, projection-type magnetic compasses were used as backup. These compasses were installed above the pressure hull in a nonmagneticzone with a spheric radius of about 1 m. Image transmission into the pressure hull was accomplished by lenses and prisms, and the image was projected onto a ground-glass plate. Submarine magnetic compasses cannot be adjusted accurately because of the interference caused by the heavy currents in the electrical networks and by the long pressure hull.
The gyro compass is of the Anschuetz bell type, which has been manufactured and installed commercially for many years.
An Anschutz gyro-compass equipment of normal type is fitted. The sensitive element is in the form of a sphere containing two gyros and a sealed damping trough. The sphere is completely immersed in an acidulated water-glycerine mixture of suitable density to make it nearly but not quite buoyant, and it is supported inside the follow-up member by the repulsion effect of a coil inside the sphere carrying A-C current. The 3-phase supply to the gyro rotors is taken through the liquid between conducting polar caps and an equatorial band. Water is circulated from a tank through cooling coils in the compass bowl by means of a pump. Follow-up is controlled by the difference of the liquid resistance path between two electrodes in the follow-up member and the edges of the centre band of the equatorial electrode on the sphere. This difference controls a valve amplifier, the output of which drives a motor and transmitter. The transmitter supplies a repeater motor on the compass drives the follow-up member. Transmission is of the A-C type at 50 volts, 50 cycles, somewhat similar to Magslip or Selsyn, but the repeater motor makes one revolution per degree and is therefore comparable as regard torque with an "M" type motor. In all A-C systems, however, the repeater load reacts on the transmitter and thus limits the maximum load which can be accepted.
The amplifier and control equipment in this installation has been fitted all in two boxes, thus reducing the overall sizes compared with ordinary Anschutz equipment.
A prism sight has been fitted at the window of the compass bowl to allow convenient observation of the sphere itself and a bracket close by to secure to steering gear, so that the ship can be steered by the compass, although the follow-up is not in operation.
A pressure resistant azimuth repeater is fitted on the bridge, and has a window about 4 in. diameter through which can be seen a cyclometer type dial giving the course in degrees, a circular dial giving 10
Do you know how the aft torpedo tube is fixed to the pressure hull?
Thanks Maciek! It is the same way as the bow :)
In Drawing 1 "Torpedo tube flooding and drainage installation" where is drain valve (i)? Is it the valve next (right) of the piston in Photo 3 "Aft torpedo tube on U-995"?
I am afraid there going to be lots more questions for you, as I have just started to drawing the piping to the tubes ;D ;)
In Drawing 1 "Torpedo tube flooding and drainage installation" where is drain valve (i)? Is it the valve next (right) of the piston in Photo 3 "Aft torpedo tube on U-995"?
So this makes me believe this valve is on the starboard size of the aft tube, somewhere behind the open hatch door of Photo 3. Aft torpedo tube on U-995
Have you seen any measurement for the length of the torpedo tube within U-boat? I got a measurement of 3020 mm does this look right? It matches very near to the total length of 7552 mm.
From the picture below I have located the four opening in the bow casting for the drainage pipe (in Orange) however, they look a little small for the draining the tube. What do you think?
Here valve (i) including the interlocker. I was able to located two name plates but unable to make out that are on them :( The valve also a small bleed line (left) I try to follow it but was only able to follow it for about 40 cm it was heading to the Control panel (Ausgleicharmatur) in Photo 5.
(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/1508/typevii41view3d.jpg)
(http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/4552/new2d.th.jpg) (http://img809.imageshack.us/i/new2d.jpg/)
Here the basic layout some far (will need to add the piping and things to get the right scale and postions). The blue pipe go back to tank 2. I could not location the orange drainage pipe on U-995 (maybe is has been removed :-\)
Hi Simon,
A few weeks back you requested a photo showing how the aerial met with the aft deck. This should help -
http://cgi.ebay.com/ORIG-PHOTO-U-BOOT-U-BOAT-U-212-CREWMEN-W-FLAG-DECK-/110630725459?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c21ae753
Cheers,
Dougie
Meantime I figure out one more part of installation:
(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/3826/u9952k553.jpg)
(source: http://www.ubootwaffe.pl/galeria/okrety/u-995/)
blue arrow - hull valve (a)
compare valve handle with:
(http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570DTPlate1.jpg)
(source: http://www.uboatarchive.net)
yellow arrow - valve (h)
green arrow - connection to equalizing pressure
red arrow - connection to compensating tanks
(http://uboatarchive.net/U-570DTPlate25.jpg)
(source: http://www.uboatarchive.net)
--
Regards
Maciek
Hi SimonHave you seen any measurement for the length of the torpedo tube within U-boat? I got a measurement of 3020 mm does this look right? It matches very near to the total length of 7552 mm.
Unfortunately I have never met exact measurement of the part of the tube inside and outside the boat.
I suppose, that for that moment you have to estimate it from the drawings.
--
Regards
Maciek
To my understanding the inlet is only on the port side of the boat, is that right Maciek ???
I have some original German measurement for this inlet for the pressure hull. I will
measure this out on the outside of the boat and see how it matches on the inside.
Maciek, have you seen the information that Dani from http://www.u-historia.com/ got from Joachim Scherneck-Czech,
Archives assistant in Military historical training centre of the naval college M
Maciek, I read that the late war Type VIIC/41 lost the function of using mines. If, so that would happened to say the opening in the bow cap casting for the compressed air pipe for the mine bolt actuator? Would they just wield up the opening or do you think they redesign the bow cap for the Type VIIC/41 ???
I have some original German measurement for this inlet for the pressure hull. I will
measure this out on the outside of the boat and see how it matches on the inside.
Where have you got this measurement?
Is it from the link you gave below, or some else source?
Please give the info, if this match.
Here I have got next few parts of flood installation.
For the port side:
(http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/3826/u9952k553.jpg)
(source: http://www.ubootwaffe.pl/galeria/okrety/u-995/)
(http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4864/porty.jpg)
(source: http://uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate7.htm)
For the starboard side:
(http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/223/img1895w.jpg)
(source: U-995 DVD http://www.uboataces.com/u995.shtml)
(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/580/stbp.jpg)
(source: http://uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate7.htm)
I think that blue arrow points the blank place, where the flow meter was installed.
--
Regards
Maciek
Would not the Black Arrow be the flow meter? It found on both side, and its look like the lid flip open to display a counter at the top.
Also how good is your German (or anyone) I just can not like out all the letters on this name plate. Also below the name plate you can see a flow arrow which you usually always found a flow meters.
(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/769/new1ew.jpg)
► Do you have any views of the piping (Red Arrow) to the left of this photograph? I am trying to follow the pipe out of the flow meter.
► Also from below, the valve to the sea: Originally I was thinking this was only an inlet valve, but now I think it an inlet and out valve, is this correct?
I think I have located the two main drain valves (f) from the drainage system.
Unfortunately I do not have any views, moreover, viewing below pictures, I think that this piping is led under the deck/casing and it is hard to see.
Where does this photo come from?
Is this from uboataces.com U-995 DVD?
I am sure I have located the two pipes I am looking for from photographs. One is directly under the personal lockers and another pipe runs along the pressure hull near the floor. I am sure I know with pipe belong to which system, base on the size of the pipes, but I was hoping to double check this.
Inlet/outlet valve with flow meter including piping
(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/2923/graphic1i.jpg)
► Also from below, the valve to the sea: Originally I was thinking this was only an inlet valve, but now I think it an inlet and out valve, is this correct?
Yes, the valve can take water from the sea as well as can be used to blow water from compensating tanks.
I think you are right. If you look at Plate 11: High pressure air system & Plate 12: Low pressure or service air system there no air lines going to Compensating Tank 2 & 3. The only a air line is to the Forward Trim Tank (this is the air line you can see in P1100408.JPG :-\) On Plate 6: Trimming, compensating and drainage system you can see the piping to drain Compensatings Tank 2 & 3.
I need to update the blue pipe, as I think I have make the diameter to big (I have it at 70 mm now but I starting to think it more like 60 mm) and I am almost certain it does not go through the Forward Trim Tank but long the top like is the picture (P1100408.JPG). I also need to add it to both starboard and port side of the boat.
In plate 25, the air line to torpedo compensating tanks 2 and 3, would only be an overflow or overpressure line and could not be normally or never used to blow the water out of these tanks?
Why would you want to move water from the compensating tanks to torpedo tubes?
Was it to equal the pressure the tube before opening the outer door?
I think that this is valve marked as (v) o the diagram
(http://uboatarchive.net/U-570DTPlate25.jpg)
(source: http://uboatarchive.net/U-570DesignBook.htm)
This is valve used to select which torpedo compensating tank 2 or 3 is to be used to flood/drain the tubes.
On Plate 11: High pressure air system, http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate11.htm (http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate11.htm) do you know where is pressure hull valve A1 for the high pressure air bank 6 is?
On Plate 11: High pressure air system, http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate11.htm (http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate11.htm) do you know where is pressure hull valve A1 for the high pressure air bank 6 is?
Simon, it's hard to locate it, but I'm working on it :)
--
Regards
Maciek
Does tube II & IV drain into Compensating Tank 2 and tube I & III drain into Compensating Tank 3?
40. The two torpedo low pressure manifolds are each provided with a connection for pneumatic tools.
a line to the marker buoy stowage, and a line to the group of valves which control the flooding, blowing
and draining of the torpedo tubes. This last group of valves, for each tube, consists of a stop valve, a relief
valve and pressure gauge, a four-way cock which admits air to the torpedo tube on the WRT tank while
venting the other one of the pair, and a three-way cock to permit selective venting of either or both ends
of the torpedo tube. There is also an individual cock in the vent line of each WRT tank and a common three-way
cock which permits selective use of either WRT tank by any torpedo tube.
47. The only tributaries of the torpedo low pressure air manifolds which call for description are the
combination of valves related to the torpedo tube filling and draining. On this combination, operation
of one four-way cock admits air under pressure either to the WRT tank or to the torpedo tube with
which the cock is associated. Related operation of a cock on the tube drain line then permits flow of
water from the WRT tank to the tube, or vice versa, as desired. Further, the operation of an additional
three-way cock in the air line permits blowing or venting one or both ends of the tube. A further
three-way cock in the sir line to the WRT tank, when operated together with a three-way cock on the
common drain line to the WRT tanks, permits a choice of draining to or flooding from either the port or
starboard WRT tank.
A further possibility of controlling list exists in the WRT tank air and water connections in each torpedo
room, which are such as to permit water from one WRT tank to be blown into the other, or to permit flooding
of either WRT tank, there being a port and starboard WRT tank in each torpedo room.
Images for starboard side I'm going to post in the evening.
(I know, that it is description for type IXC, but it I'm sure, the similar arrangement was on type VII boats).
Thanks, Pat. That sound great. Can you rememeber the name of the program? I would be kind to watch it if it comes to New Zealand.
I'm not quite sure about above assumptions - I do not have good enough photos
to confirm that. The best way would be visiting the Laboe :-)
There a picture of a G7es/T5
The opening/closing of the out torpedo tube door
Fig. 1. The torpedo tube.
Fig. 2. Inner section of the torpedo tube - The control rod ran alone the top of the torpedo tube.
Fig. 3. Outer section of the torpedo tube - The control rod ran alone the top of the torpedo tube, outside the pressure hull.
Fig. 4. A close-up view of the screw gears, control rods and chain system linking the two sub-systems together.
Fig. 5. A full view of this system.
I imagine that the parallel valve have to be on the other, starboard side, but I don't
have any direct evidence - there is no good photo of that part of room - it is always
hidden by opened inner tube door or shaft gear of the manual drive for diving planes :-\
I think that I can see valve handle on this photo (but maybe it's my imagination).
Thanks, Pat. That sound great. Can you rememeber the name of the program? I would be kind to watch it if it comes to New Zealand.
If I remember correctly, it was a program called "The American Experience" and it was the Buffalo, New York, PBS (Public Broadcasting System), station WNED. I'm sure they must have a website.
The American Experience is an ongoing series that takes some event in US history that might have some unknown or controversial details and every week goes into whatever is known about it.
Hi gents,
Great photos! Some of these photos are from "Die deutschen U-boote und ihre Werften" by E Roessler. They show U 235 in October 1943.
U 235 was very unusual in several respects. Firstly when it was commissioned in Dec 42 it had an original tower but with the late styl;e of deck (planked). A quite unusual combination!
By October 1943 it had a snorchel and a Turm II. This Turm II was a little different than normal - there has a curved edge to the tower that can be clearly seen in the last photo.
Cheers,
Dougie
Maciek, I found it!!! ;D ;D I will post pictures soon.
Hi gents,
Great photos! Some of these photos are from "Die deutschen U-boote und ihre Werften" by E Roessler. They show U 235 in October 1943.
U 235 was very unusual in several respects. Firstly when it was commissioned in Dec 42 it had an original tower but with the late styl;e of deck (planked). A quite unusual combination!
By October 1943 it had a snorchel and a Turm II. This Turm II was a little different than normal - there has a curved edge to the tower that can be clearly seen in the last photo.
Cheers,
Dougie
I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment on anything but the tool connection - it's similar in Gatos, so I can sort of recognise that!
Were you able to locate the pressure gage before valve c2?
Low pressure air line
I had been rechecking the piping for the low pressure air line. That do you think about this:
Pneumatic tools connection
(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2618/pipe5.jpg)
Red Arrow = Pressure gage (missing).
Blue Arrow = Connection points.
Yellow Arrow = Valve c.
(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/952/pipe6.jpg)
I think they may have updated the low pressure system for the Type VIIC/41. Here a suggestion for the new low pressure air line.
Red arrow = Flow of low pressure air.
Blue arrow = New master valve.
Yellow arrow = Low pressure line to tube II & IV (Port Side), control by new valve (pink arrow).
Green arrow = Low pressure line to tube I & III (starboard side), control by new valve (megente arrow).
Black arrow = Pressure hull valve for forward buoyancy tank.
Hi SimonHi Maciek
Were you able to locate the pressure gage before valve c2?
Well, I think that it is located at top, port torpedo tube:
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1194/p1100445u.jpg) (http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/1194/p1100445u.jpg)
with the probe line leading from the valve as marked here:
(http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/5259/probeline.jpg) (http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/5259/probeline.jpg)
The similar arrangement here:
(http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/7776/p1100450j.jpg) (http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/7776/p1100450j.jpg)
--
Regards
Maciek
I am not sure if we are talking about the same pressure gage, as I was thinking there was only one pressure gage to measurement the pressure in Bank 6 (being located before it spit to port and starboard)?
I must say there so much new data and things, that I am starting to lose track on all the piping ;D I will need to read all our posts again to fully understand it before I start adding each subsystem to my drawing.
A update on the drawing, now includes the Saddle Tank Hatches
(http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/5895/new2c.th.jpg) (http://img814.imageshack.us/i/new2c.jpg/)
Key for Drawing
http://www.mediafire.com/?ign98y2vc981py8 (http://www.mediafire.com/?ign98y2vc981py8)
Simon, your last post makes me think of two questions.
Approx when would the KM have started using that version of DF loop? I'm wondering of course if I should try to make that for my model or leave it the round one it started as.
And the other one to do with torpedoes is, how close would the nose of a torpedo come to the inside of the torpedo door? Or perhaps, how long is a torpedo and how long is the entire torpedo tube (assuming the torpedo is as far back in the tube as possible when ready to fire).
Simon, your last post makes me think of two questions.
Approx when would the KM have started using that version of DF loop? I'm wondering of course if I should try to make that for my model or leave it the round one it started as.
And the other one to do with torpedoes is, how close would the nose of a torpedo come to the inside of the torpedo door? Or perhaps, how long is a torpedo and how long is the entire torpedo tube (assuming the torpedo is as far back in the tube as possible when ready to fire).
I think that hull valve a1 for HP Bank 6 is located here:
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6426/hpbank6a.jpg) (http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6426/hpbank6a.jpg/)
Then the lines go at both sides:
starboard:
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/7672/hpbank6b.jpg)
and then to the Control Room, through the valve d
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/7681/hpbank6c.jpg)
port:
(http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/7449/hpbank6d.jpg)
(view from the stern)
(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/5938/hpbank6e.jpg)
(view from the bow)
The port line goes through the valve c2 to the mine ejection installation.
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/962/hpbank6f.jpg)
--
Regards
Maciek
Simon, your last post makes me think of two questions.
Approx when would the KM have started using that version of DF loop? I'm wondering of course if I should try to make that for my model or leave it the round one it started as.
And the other one to do with torpedoes is, how close would the nose of a torpedo come to the inside of the torpedo door? Or perhaps, how long is a torpedo and how long is the entire torpedo tube (assuming the torpedo is as far back in the tube as possible when ready to fire).
Boats with one, U-362, U-776, U-858, U-869, U-875, U-889, U-953, U-995, U-997, U-1023, U-1056, U-1165 & U-1305.
Does this look like the correct layout for the piping for bank 6 (in red) ???
(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/8363/new1l.jpg)
2.) There is very little room between the nose of a torpedo and the inside of the torpedo door, could be less than 50 mm. I am thinking around 30
I hope you can get through the nastiness quickly and return to normal!
Thanks, Pat. That sound great. Can you rememeber the name of the program? I would be kind to watch it if it comes to New Zealand.
If I remember correctly, it was a program called "The American Experience" and it was the Buffalo, New York, PBS (Public Broadcasting System), station WNED. I'm sure they must have a website.
The American Experience is an ongoing series that takes some event in US history that might have some unknown or controversial details and every week goes into whatever is known about it.
Thanks Pat! Found it.
http://www.wgbh.org/articles/Killer-Subs-In-Pearl-Harbor-1399 (http://www.wgbh.org/articles/Killer-Subs-In-Pearl-Harbor-1399) Can not watch it in NZ :( but its also YouTube :)
How the research going on the piping? Now that I got my computer going again I am going to restart on my research on the piping.
Hi SimonHow the research going on the piping? Now that I got my computer going again I am going to restart on my research on the piping.
Researches are momentary stalled - I'm afraid, that without any new materials or without visit in Laboe,
at this moment I can't figure out something new...
I hope, I will visit U-995 in May, and then many question will be answered. :)
--
Regards
Maciek
Boats with one, U-362, U-776, U-858, U-869, U-875, U-889, U-953, U-995, U-997, U-1023, U-1056, U-1165 & U-1305.
Also U-826, U-1058, U-1109
Any ideas what they did on Alberich boats for the lower vents - the ones behind the foreplanes and the other group near the props?
Hi Simon,
Good work on these vents. I've seen very few photos of Alberich boats, hence why I never put them in the vent article. I'm pleased you've been able to establish the patterns.
Any ideas what they did on Alberich boats for the lower vents - the ones behind the foreplanes and the other group near the props?
Cheers,
Dougie
Hi Simon,
I'm sure you're right about this vent - makes good sense. I've never seen a below the waterline photo of an Alberich boat, which would be good to see.
Cheers,
Dougie
Hi NZSnowman, just been going thru this thread and your doing amazing work.
Noticed all the Mediafire links are invalid (Invalid or Deleted File) :-[ any chance of re-uploading them ;D
Cheers Mate.
(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/7654/dfloopa.jpg)
Fig. 1. Early war Direction Finder Antenna Loops. The DF Loop on the right is a 'left behind' if the FuMB-26 Tunis was remove.
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/8852/dfloop.jpg)
Fig. 2. Update: Late war Direction Finder Antenna Loop
The crew of U-1308 are very happy today as they just acquire there shining new FuMO 61 Hohentwiel U radar. They are eager to try it out as soon as possible :)
(http://a.imageshack.us/img638/7633/fumo61.jpg)
I am trying to position the Direction Finder Antenna Loop. There seen to bit a of variations (I think :-\). I am after any pictures of this area of the boat with the bridge shelf and the Direction Finder Antenna Loop. In the picture below of U-249, it looks like the Direction Finder Antenna Loop cut into the bridge shelf, which I thought was usually because there enough room to add it so it does not cut into the bridge shelf.
(http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/2690/new2o.jpg)
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-249PhotosPortland.htm (http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-249PhotosPortland.htm)
Hmmm...it's possible off ctr, because there could be other equip to make room for, and a few centimeters wouldn't make much difference, and yet, it would make so much sense to be dead ctr...
Atlantic Bow - Update
While adding the twelve circular vents above the torpedo doors to U-1308, I noticed that they did not fix the Type VIIC/41 very well. So I have another look at the bow shape. I feel that I made a mistake in my original drawing :(
http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=106.msg5634;topicseen#msg5634 (http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=106.msg5634;topicseen#msg5634)
I believe now the alteration for the Atlantic Bow only affect the bow casting section, and does not affect the deck to № 91 like in my original drawing. If the alteration is only affecting the bow casting section, is makes sense as they would not need to modify any other part of the boat.
(http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1876/bowvi.jpg)
The pink outline is the Type VIIC and the green outline is the Atlantic Bow.
(http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/5407/bow2v.jpg)
Above you can see the bow casting section. Is this the section they would had alternated for the Atlantic Bow (Source: Westwood).
(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7305/u1023rddition.jpg)
Above you can see the outline of the Atlantic Bow (Source: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=149950&page=21 (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=149950&page=21))
my goodness!!
that is some serious attention to details :o
was that internal ribbing identical to early VII/C? :)
Marko
Hi Dougie or anyone.
On Turm IV, we know that the upper and lower wintergarten deck was wood, was the bridge deck, wood or steel ???
Thanks, Simon.
Dougie, Maciek or anyone, does anyone have any idea that the pipes are for?
The compensating lines to the individual fuel ballast tanks run directly to the bottom of the tank while the line for the outboard normal fuel tanks leads into the small salt water niche (1.5% of fuel tank's volume) in the bottom of the tank; a line then leads from the top of the niche to the bottom of the fuel tank.
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7479/new6g.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12/new6g.jpg/)
With letters A and B I have marked the driving gears for flood valves of the the Main Ballast and Reserve Fuel Oil Tank 4 port
Es mu
Eine weitere Begebenheit war mein Einstieg in die Tauchzelle 3. Bei welcher Fahrt es gewesen war, wei
Thanks everone for your help and pictures about the decking!
I was able to work out from all the pictures the hatches location etc... I was also able to find the pressure hull opening within U-995. So I had the start and end of the piping, I just have to best guess the bit in between. I place a bronze pipe end at the inlet. The piping on the left is for the fuel oil and the one on the right is for the Engine lubricating Oil.
I have not be able so far to workout the piping for the Steam heating system :( :(
(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/4558/piping.jpg) (http://img109.imageshack.us/i/piping.jpg/)
Engine lubricating oil & fuel oil piping.
Hey Buddy!
How about a nice set of line drawings for a Type IX C ????
Regards,
Dan
Hey Buddy!
How about a nice set of line drawings for a Type IX C ????
Regards,
Dan
I would like to do a set of drawings for the Type IX's after I finish the Type VIIC/41 :)
Hello All
I would to introduce myself. I'm Simon Morris from New Zealand. For the last 10 months I have been drawing a 1:60 scale of a general VIIC/41. Durying this time a few quection pop up about the VIIC/41. I am hope that you guys can help my with a few :)
Here is my first question.
I am looking for the other none water markings, I have seem to found mark II, III & V. I am looking for mark I & IV. I am thinking they are both on the port side of the boat, but i can not found them in the pictures i have of U-995. Does anyone found where they are?
Hull Marking (2 MB) http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ghtymnymh3n
Thanks, Simon
Here are a few of my drawing, they are all PDF
Conning Tower (6.5 MB) http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?zzyigmmljak (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?zzyigmmljak)
Engine Room (3.3 MB) http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?z2ry2n1dmtq
Motor Room (1.3 MB) http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?l2mgzjmzy2n
Me & Poster (0.7 MB) http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=zmmzzjyzimo&thumb=6 ;D
Great photos! Some of these photos are from "Die deutschen U-boote und ihre Werften" by E Roessler. They show U 235 in October 1943.
I was wondering if anyone has any war time pictures of the electric motors on the Type VIIC
The book "Die deutschen U-boote und ihre Werften" is really good, providing excellent photos of boats on the slipways in various stages of construction. But it doesn't have internal photos so I don't think it will help you with forward torpedo room.
The one book which does have internal VIIC photos is "U-Boat War" by Lothar Guenther Buchheim. This is full of photos he took on the famous U 96 patrol. It includes a few photos of the forward torpedo room.
Hello All
I would to introduce myself. I'm Simon Morris from New Zealand. For the last 10 months I have been drawing a 1:60 scale of a general VIIC/41. Durying this time a few quection pop up about the VIIC/41. I am hope that you guys can help my with a few :)
Here is my first question.
I am looking for the other none water markings, I have seem to found mark II, III & V. I am looking for mark I & IV. I am thinking they are both on the port side of the boat, but i can not found them in the pictures i have of U-995. Does anyone found where they are?
Hull Marking (2 MB) http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ghtymnymh3n
Thanks, Simon
Here are a few of my drawing, they are all PDF
Conning Tower (6.5 MB) http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?zzyigmmljak (http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?zzyigmmljak)
Engine Room (3.3 MB) http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?z2ry2n1dmtq
Motor Room (1.3 MB) http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?l2mgzjmzy2n
Me & Poster (0.7 MB) http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=zmmzzjyzimo&thumb=6 ;D
Hi NZ, this post is quite a bit later but can you please if possible redownload the schematics, because it is now an INVALID FILE?
Thank you very much: Marcus Silva
A small update today for the outlets valves for Diving Tank 3. I found this picture from http://www.u-boot-zentrale.de/eng/tower.htm (http://www.u-boot-zentrale.de/eng/tower.htm) with a wire net to protect against foreign bodies entering the tank.
(http://www.u-boot-zentrale.de/bilder/Entluft.jpg) (http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/6598/new1gq.jpg)
I think you are right, that they leave the mounting under the deck. As the German's would never know for sure if they would not reuse it late in the war, if things got better.
Thanks mate! and you too! Hope the new Christchurch quakes haven't affected you.
The crew of U-1308 are truly happy today as they got two new 3.7 cm Flakzwilling M43U for their LM42U twin mounted flak guns. (Very few U-boats got the twin mounted 37 mm flak guns - U-boat know to have them U-1108 & U-889).
There was some talk within the crew about getting the LM43U the quadruple mounted flak guns :o (As a side note, the German did make a quadruple mounted 37 mm flak guns, but it do not come up to expectations, so they swap out the 37 mm for 20 mm). The LM43U quadruple mounted flak guns would have been able to put up 200 round per minute, firing a 0.73 kg round over 15.3 km. That would have help keep the planes away ;D
(http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/8149/37mmflakm42.jpg)
(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/3799/37mmflakm42b.jpg)
That is an outstanding illustration! I work a lot with Illustrator, Painter and Photoshop, and I must say I nod greatly to your skills! Well done sir!
Christopher
The crew of U-1308 are very happy today as they just acquire there shining new FuMO 61 Hohentwiel U radar. They are eager to try it out as soon as possible :)
(http://a.imageshack.us/img638/7633/fumo61.jpg)
While reworking the bridge of U-1308 today, I noticed the plans of the FuMO 61 Hohentwiel U do not match the war time photographs, so I rework the drawing to match the photographs. The drawing is now base on U-3037, U-3045 & U-3008.
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/7633/fumo61.jpg)
Fig. 1. The FuMO 61 Hohentwiel U without the netting.
(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/6039/new3d.jpg)
Fig. 2. The FuMO 61 Hohentwiel U within its radar aerial housing.
more nice work - how close are you to "finishing"?
and what was in their pockets?! how many pieces of lint?
Likely he is working on a scale depiction of the Scapa Flow, and each vessel and building... We know Gunther's boat at the time... But what clothing was each of the crew wearing? He is a busy man... ;D
Mmmmm....Weapon and Radar porn. :P Very well done Simon, the drawings are beautiful.
Ernest
Thanks mate! and you too! Hope the new Christchurch quakes haven't affected you.
All this well! Yes, it has been a Rock & roll time for Christchurch within that last 24 hours.
5 large earthquakes within 2 hours. The first was 5.8 and hit at 1.58pm yesterday, followed by a 5.3 quake at 2.06pm. At 2.14pm there was a 4.2 magnitude one but the largest was 6.0 and struck at 3.18pm. It was followed by a 5.0 magnitude jolt at 3.50pm.
Since 4:00pm yesterday they have recorded 21 earthquakes between 3.2 and 5.1 magnitude.
Off to Christchurch today for Christmas with the family.
Here Admiral3 Simon, sailing his battleship ;D ;D
(http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/7643/simonboat.jpg)
Check out this number ;D ;D ;D ;D ;DCoincident ? Very flattered to have your 1308 post on my page! Congrats with your new Avetar very good!
(http://imageshack.us/a/img337/6360/new5u.jpg)
Simon.
Thought you was satisfied with snow for this year, we had our first snowfall for the season this morning, even way down in the lowland. I have to brace for the winter putting on the wintertyres with studs. Looking forward to se your drawing of the engine topview it`s a lot of stuff cramped on to the cylindercover.
Tore
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/7479/new6g.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/12/new6g.jpg/)
The thick pipe marked with letter C I believe is a sounding pipe as marjked here:
(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/5879/u570dtplate8a.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/834/u570dtplate8a.jpg/)
(source: http://uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate8A.htm (http://uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate8A.htm))
The thinner pipe marked with letter D is hard to figure out.
I think it can be water compensating line:
(http://uboatarchive.net/U-570DTPlate10.jpg)
(source: http://uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate10T.jpg (http://uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate10T.jpg)
But according to the "FUEL OIL STOWAGE AND EQUIPMENT" chapter in the type IXC study (http://uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXC.htm (http://uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXC.htm)):QuoteThe compensating lines to the individual fuel ballast tanks run directly to the bottom of the tank while the line for the outboard normal fuel tanks leads into the small salt water niche (1.5% of fuel tank's volume) in the bottom of the tank; a line then leads from the top of the niche to the bottom of the fuel tank.
it looks as it is located to high.
It can be also exhaust gas blowing line:
(http://uboatarchive.net/U-570DTPlate16.jpg)
(source: http://uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate16.htm (http://uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate16.htm)
but it in the turn looks located to low.
--
Regards
Maciek
Update for the Free-Flooding Vent patterns
► Made a few changes to the vents base on the better photographs of U-1105. (Top - Type VIIC/41's with the Alberich coating/Lower layer is the vent patterns for Type VIIC/41's).
Stern Vents
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/4342/ventstern.jpg)
Bow Vents
(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/9509/ventbow.jpg)
It has been always documented that U-1306 had an Alberich coating. This morning I found photograph evidence of this. If you look hard at the Free-Flooding Vent on the deck casting (lower left of the photo) you can make out the shape of the vents and how it matches of the other Alberich boatsNice catch Simon!
Simon.
I have no means to measure the angles, but am wondering about your blue casingdeck image. I the way of the lower wintergarden I guess the casing deck has a small 2nd. widening between frame 41+ and 47. See picture below. I have some photos showing KNM the decking in the vicinity of the snortmast see below, on the Kaura decking we did away with the wintergarden and the 2nd deckwidening.
Simon.
I have no means to measure the angles, but am wondering about your blue casingdeck image. I the way of the lower wintergarden I guess the casing deck has a small 2nd. widening between frame 41+ and 47. See picture below. I have some photos showing KNM the decking in the vicinity of the snortmast see below, on the Kaura decking we did away with the wintergarden and the 2nd deckwidening.
Simon.
I cannot recall we ever had so many holes as on U 249, but we had larger holes for the stanchions of the railing which was pretty much used in peacetime. In war times and during exercises they were removed leaving only the holes in the wooden deck along the casing. The reason why they were removed was due to rattling while submerged.
Below a photo of KNM Kaura with the stanchions fitted.
Tore
Simon looks very good.
A question on the saddletanks manhole covers. Apparently there are variations, I seems to remember they were oval shape like on the drawing below and the photos of U 995 and your photo of U 249. I assumed your research on U 1308 has resulted in the arrangement, two round and three oval, on your drawing.
Tore
Simon.
These plates are lockingplates generally used on essential nuts to prevent vibration etc unscrew the nuts.
Tore
Simon.
These plates are lockingplates generally used on essential nuts to prevent vibration etc unscrew the nuts.
Tore
I can not imagine it was good to have they bolts falling out ;D ;)
Tore, were they a softer metal?
Q. Maciek, double checking this is Emergency vent system for the MB & RFO Tank 2 (Bb & Stb)?
Hi Guys,Q. Tore/Maciek, I imagine small pipes are high pressure lines?
Hard to say, they can be high pressure lines (but I don't know, why they were led to the bottom), or fuel oil sounding lines.
--
Regards
Maciek
Simon
Valve b1.Residueventing
The valve is operated both from the controlroom and engine room, see drawing below.
Tore
At least we have a point to go back to, eh Simon! Buddha knows how many hours I have spent on drawings... only to have to go back and make changes!... ChristopherI just found changes on my own study of the umlufthellhahn I need to change
Simon.
These plates are lockingplates generally used on essential nuts to prevent vibration etc unscrew the nuts.
Tore
Where did you find a pipe flange having 24 nuts in a VIIC Simon? ;D
Tore
I see, the end cover of the group exhaustvalve. I believe the cover has a coolingwater connection, may be double wall? and I am not sure the nuts are locked by lockingplates though ;D .
Tore
Simon
Mufllervalve linkage.
I have no idea about this detail, and may be you have drawn the arrangement based on better sources than I have, but seeing the photo of the IXC I wonder if it could be a linkage as shown below. I should however trust a better reference than me. :D
Tore
Simon
Mufllervalve linkage.
I have no idea about this detail, and may be you have drawn the arrangement based on better sources than I have, but seeing the photo of the IXC I wonder if it could be a linkage as shown below. I should however trust a better reference than me. :D
Tore
Simon
Mufllervalve linkage.
I have no idea about this detail, and may be you have drawn the arrangement based on better sources than I have, but seeing the photo of the IXC I wonder if it could be a linkage as shown below. I should however trust a better reference than me. :D
Tore
Tore, how the new linkage looks?
(http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/4379/new1u.jpg)
I was wondering if anyone realise this icon/symbol?
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/4829/new2ca.jpg)
But so far, there was nothing where I could contribute. We recently moved to Hamburg and I'm preparing my first visit to U-995 (about an hour from where I live.......).
I have been looking at the angle of the Balconger
Hi,
I have studied "Die Sonaranlagen der deutschen U-Boote" by Eberhard R
Maciek, the "July 1942" date, is this the data that it was first discuss or a typo? I have a data of July 1943 for the sea trials of U-194.
Maciek, do you know if on the late war Type VII/41 if the stern reserve torpedo container was remover?
Upper deck containers had been removed.http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-607INT.htm
Not fitted on last two patrols.http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-575INT.htm
Before the last patrol, the two upper deck containers were removedhttp://www.uboatarchive.net/U-615INT.htm
Two upper deck containers were removed in La Spezia.http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-660INT.htm
Removed sometime prior to 7th patrol (late 1942).http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-453INT.htm
Upper deck containers removed after third patrol.http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-371INT.htm
Attacks on submerged boats with new types of location methods and apparently more powerful depth charges than previously, have become more concentrated. The recent increase in cases of damage to upper deck containers proves that more powerful depth charges are being used. These containers must always be especially dangerous if weight is suddenly increased; thus boats operating in the North Atlantic had to be ordered to leave upper deck containers behind.
Provision of upper deck containers:
On 30.4 the order was given to omit upper deck containers when fitting out all boats operating in the North Atlantic. This order was necessitated by the gradually increasing number of cases where, when the boats were depth-charged or bombed, especially at fairly great depths, the upper deck containers were cracked or started leaking, or were swamped and thus very gravely endangered the boat, especially the Type IX which carries 8 deck containers. It is suspected that this has been the cause of the loss of many boats.
The following orders are now in force for the provision of upper deck containers:
1) Type VIIb, c, d - none.
2) Type IXb, c - normally none.
Type IXc is to take 6 upper deck containers with 6 torpedoes when special orders are given, but only on operations in the south.
3) Type IXd - 12 upper deck containers with 12 torpedoes.
Thus, the upper deck cargo for IXc boats operating in the south has been reduced from 8 to 6 torpedoes to reduce the danger to the boat if containers should spring a leak.
In connection with the foregoing order Ob.d.M. made the following decision regarding new construction of upper deck containers.
i) Containers on all boats in commission will not be replaced if they have proved faulty.
ii) New construction Type VIIc will be equipped with stronger iron upper deck containers as already planned, also, as before, the loading gear for use at sea.
iii) New construction Type IXc will be equipped with 6 upper deck containers built of light metal, but possessing greater stability; Type IXd will carry 12 containers.
iv) Type IXb and c boats putting to sea without upper deck containers will not have their ballast redistributed, but will carry some 5 tons less fuel.
v) Type Xb will be issued with 6 upper deck containers as before, but they are only to be put on board if special orders are given.
Hay Snowman,
do you know the attached photo? The picture is "Alberich" (U-1105) related and maybe helpful for your drawings.
I am not sure about the source but I suppose the image is shown in the german book "U-Boot Typ VII: Vom Original zum Modell" and illustrates the lower bow section of "U-1105" during it's shipyard inspection in England after the german surrender (as written in the image description). I catched it for a few months ago via screenshot but I don't know which URL-adress it was.
Interesting to me seems the fact that the "Balkongeraet" was fitted behind "Tauchzelle 5" and not in front of it. The author says that this kind of mounting had its advantage in using the "Balkongeraet" also under snorkel operations and not least in wider scanning ranges (summary of the german image description).
Guess there has to be lot of pictures in british archives about the inspection of U-1105 (?)
Falo
(thanks for the "Schematic-Drawings"-Update)
Schnorchel mast is raised and lowered by the Schnorchel piston that is controlled by two hand wheels in the control room which activate a hydraulic mechanism. One hand-wheel is turned to "Open" for rising, when the Schnorchel is to be lowered, this wheel must be in the "Closed" position and the other wheel turned to "Open".
While doing some more research on the Schnorchel today, I came acoress this:
"Raising and lowering are controlled by hand wheels in the control room which activate a hydraulic mechanism. One hand-wheel is turned to "Open" for raising; when the schnorchel is to be lowered, this wheel must be on "Closed" and the other wheel turned to "Open""
From the NAVY DEPARTMENT OFFICE OF THE CHIEF OF NAVAL OPERATIONS WASHINGTON Final Report - G/Serial 32 REPORT ON THE INTERROGATION OF SURVIVORS FROM U-575 SUNK 13 MARCH 1944 http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-575INT.htm (http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-575INT.htm)
I was able to location the two 'Hand wheel' on U-995 ;D
(http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5531/screen2gk.jpg)
(http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/2829/screen1lax.jpg)
http://www.kubische-panoramen.de/index.php?id_id=5379 (http://www.kubische-panoramen.de/index.php?id_id=5379)
Of course you are aware of the lockingpins in upright and lowered position.
Knowing your interest for details I shall point out the schnorkel position indicator placed in the forward controlroom, see photo and don`t be confused by the red drain cock on the voicepipe. The double indicatorpointers are very much like some pointers on boardvalves.
Maciek, have you seen this drawing from http://thebattleofatlanticmuseum.ca/page20/page20.html (http://thebattleofatlanticmuseum.ca/page20/page20.html).No, I haven't. Thanks for notifying.
Do you think the “St 20 · 2.5” is the diameter of the pipe and thickness?
I just checked the hull opening for the hydraulic on U-955 and drawing, they are the same, between ribbing number 47 and 48 :)
Just returned from Africa today and a bit off track after some 15 hours flight incl. waiting at airports. However before I returned I made a sketch showing my assumption of the reality matching the sketch. You are of course Right that the shape of the handwheels shown on the photo indicated pressure oil or even luboil. Any how the rising/lowering schnorchel handle is the "ringhandle" as you pointed out, the two boardvalves of the system having luboil handwheels are the supply- and return boardvalves of the system, the returnpipe has a shutoff valve ( lowering speed valve) joining the hydraulic returnpipe from the navigation periscope hoist, whereas the schnorchel supply shutoff ( lifting speed)valve having a wheel of drinkingwater or pressureoil ( hydraulic oil) has of course its own connection to the hydraulic pressure oil system. We find these mixing of handwheels quite often on the U 995. For the schnorchel system I guess this might be because the installation was done in March- April 1945 in Trondheim and the supply of parts were short and they used the closest available handwheels. The indicated heating cable I cannot remember as the U 995 was an artic operating boat it could be for deicing of the ringfloat, we never used such a deicing. My idea would be a wire connection for the radardetector.Tore, thank you for your explanation and the sketch. It confirms my assumptions.
Simon.
The two last end positions are just correct. I wonder about the greasecups though, did you find any pictures or drawings showing same?
Tore
Very good, I didn`t remember and had an idea it could be grease nipples.
Tore
Simon.
Valve markings.
The left hydraulic boardvalve marking reads Schnorchelmast senken meaning schnorchelmast lowering. The left valvemarkings reads Druckøl Schnorchelmast heben meaning Pressureoil Schnorchelmast rising.
Tore
Simon
If you want to hook up the rest of the schnorchel hydraulic system which is connected to the IMO hyd. motor for the navigation periscope hoist I`ll make a sketch.
Tore
Simon
I fully realise there are limits to details however I could not resist adding a few more details to the schnorchel system as you see on the drawing below. The locking pin eyes are obvious. The hydraulic stuffingbox drain is important to prevent oilslick. The inboard drain valve is shown on the photo and the drain ends into the big drainbox on the forward bulkhead port side of the controlroom. The mast position indicator I have mentioned before. I assume the connection from the hullrod to the mast could be teleflex as fitted on the mechanical indicators for the hydroplanes. The hull transmission is done by a steelrod moving up and down. The cable is indicated on the drawing as heatingcable, I cannot remember that but guess it could be for the radar detectionsystem as well.
Tore
Hi Simon!
Sign of life from Africa.
The usual high quality of the drawings,but I have a few remarks. If we return to the original U 995 version having the schnorkel installed in March -April 1945 you see the sketch of same below.
Of course you are aware of the lockingpins in upright and lowered position.
Knowing your interest for details I shall point out the schnorkel position indicator placed in the forward controlroom, see photo and don`t be confused by the red drain cock on the voicepipe. The double indicatorpointers are very much like some pointers on boardvalves.
I have still avoided the lions ;D
Tore
Simon.
I cannot remember exactly but I have made a sketch indicating how I believe it is. When the mast is in upright position it needs a firm locking and a screwed pin is used operated by a handwheel in the controlroom. In downright position you just lock it in the horizontal position by a lever in the wardroom. You see photos of both the handwheel and the lever on the sketch below.
Tore
Simon.
Schnorchel position indicator.
I did not like my previous assumption so much as I would assume a rotating rod would be more appropriate. In this case if you follow the German practise you could end up with a solution indicated on the drawing below. The indicator is pretty much the same as the indicator on some important valves, the double pointer on the travellingnut prevent same to rotate hence the pointer goes up and down according to the mastposition. I cannot guaranty that this solution is the original execution at this point remains an intelligent guessing as so many times before.
Tore
Simon.
I guess the U 995 lockingpin execution is the original and probably the latest design ( installed March-April 1945), but as you know from previous discussions there are various execution particulary the rodconnection to the upper lockingpin.
Tore
Simon.
Schnorchel position indicator.
I did not like my previous assumption so much as I would assume a rotating rod would be more appropriate. In this case if you follow the German practise you could end up with a solution indicated on the drawing below. The indicator is pretty much the same as the indicator on some important valves, the double pointer on the travellingnut prevent same to rotate hence the pointer goes up and down according to the mastposition. I cannot guaranty that this solution is the original execution at this point remains an intelligent guessing as so many times before.
Tore
Simon.
Schnorchel mast indicator.
I guess we should find the simplest solution which would be pull/push rods. Below I have indicated such a system. I have estimated the vertical movement of the indicator to be some 15-20 cm (I am not sure), this would require the connection point to the mast to be close to the root of the mast as the rodlink should be as straight as possible. Thus the hullpassage would be fairly close to the fulcrum of the mast. Unfortunately this is slightly different from what is indicated on the systemsketch however there are several other details on the sketch which are not correct as well. On the U 995 photo the indicator rod enters the hull (controlroom) in the middle between frame 60 and 61 as far as I can see and I don`t know how this matches the position of the fulcrum, you have probably some details on this. This is my best assumption for you drawing of the indicator right now. ;)
Tore
Simon, back to the drawingboard ;D
Tore
Here are all the different version of the 3.7cm Flak M42U found on Type VIIC's
3.7cm Flak M42U
The 3.7cm Flak M42U was the marine version of the 3.7cm Flak used by the Kriegsmarine on Type VII and Type IX U-boats. The improvement was base on the earlier 3.7cm Flak SK C/30 developed by Rheinmetall. The 3.7cm Flak M42U used several types of mounts and entered service in autumn 1943.
LM 42U Mount
The LM 42U mount was developed specifically for the 3.7cm Flak M42U. It was man by a 3 man crew, with a fourth man, the loader.
LM 43U Mount
The LM 43U mount was the final deign of mount used on U-boats. It further improvement on the LM 42U. The LM 43U was only known to be installed on three U-boats (U-1171, U-1305 and U-1306).
DLM 42U Mount
The twin mount was base on the design, in which the 3.7cm Flak M42U guns were mounted side by side.
(http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2892/12829276405_84bf37a859_o.png)
Fig. 1. A Single 3.7cm Flak M42U gun on the LM 42U mount.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7310/12577629344_4067f51e3c_o.png)
Fig. 2. A Single 3.7cm Flak M42U gun on the LM 43U mount.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3772/12829688274_2eb6870fd3_o.png)
Fig. 3. A Twin 3.7cm Flak M42U guns on the DLM 42U mount.
Hi All
Last picture,
and finally
NZSnowman
Dougie suggested I show you this last pic, hope you're sitting down, this is how not to restore the deck of a type IXC40 courtesy of Mersey Travel
Regards
Jon
Simon
I fully realise there are limits to details however I could not resist adding a few more details to the schnorchel system as you see on the drawing below. The locking pin eyes are obvious. The hydraulic stuffingbox drain is important to prevent oilslick. The inboard drain valve is shown on the photo and the drain ends into the big drainbox on the forward bulkhead port side of the controlroom. The mast position indicator I have mentioned before. I assume the connection from the hullrod to the mast could be teleflex as fitted on the mechanical indicators for the hydroplanes. The hull transmission is done by a steelrod moving up and down. The cable is indicated on the drawing as heatingcable, I cannot remember that but guess it could be for the radar detectionsystem as well.
Tore
Spend all afternoon looking for the heating cable and radar detection cable hull openings, could not found them in any photo’s of U-995 :'(
Will have it add it to the list of things to check on U-995 when I get there one day.
Simon.
I cannot find the cable hull openings either, but for sure the U 995 had a radar detection antenna on top of the schnorchel and some wires had to go into the pressurehull possibly near the sonar/ radioroom.
Tore
Simon.
I agree this is probably the radarwarning cable going towards the sonar radio rooms. As to the red painted pressurehull opening it looks like a cable opening as well. Could that be the removed heatingcable?.
Tore
...she was scrapped around mid 1960.
Hi Snowman,
here we go with the Alberich coated XXIII boat(s). According to the text there were only two XXIII-Boats coated with the tiles: U-4704 and U-4708.
Regards
Falo
Hi Snowman,
just a (probably redundant) question according to alberich boats with mounted „Balkon-Geraet“ (please read the text below). If the „Balkon-Geraet“ was installed, did the Alberich boats also had mounted the GHG (24 hydrophones) around the hydroplanes resp. on the side of the bow? IMO that would be done twice.
Thanks in advance and regards
Falo
Gruppenhorchgerat (GHG)
The standard U-boat hydrophone, the GHG (Group Listening Apparatus) was installed in U-boats from 1935 onwards. It consisted of two sets of hydrophones mounted on each side of the bows, covering two arcs of 140 degrees on the sides of the U-boat. Because the hydrophones could not be rotated, the triangulation was most effective with sound sources coming from the sides, with deteriorating accuracy as the source moved to the front or rear of the boat. Consisting of 24 hydrophones, the GHG could pick up lone vessels up to 20 kilometers and convoys up to 100 kilometers away.
Balkon Geraet
The Balkon Great (Balcony Apparatus) was an improved version of GHG. Where the previous had 24 hydrophones, the Balkon had 48 hydrophones and improved electronics, which enabled more accurate readings to be taken. The Balkon was standard on the Type XXI and was also fitted to several Type VIIs.
Hi NZSnowman! This whole thread is amazing on every level. Is there any way to make this drawing available again? There is so much to be learned here!
Fritz
LM 43U Mount
The LM 43U mount was the final deign of mount used on U-boats. It further improvement on the LM 42U. The LM 43U was only known to be installed on three U-boats (U-1171, U-1305 and U-1306).
FuMO-61 Hohentwiel U-boat Radar
The 3D model can be found here.
https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u3f6389cc-b6f3-4415-a0d2-bedcba976755 (https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/model.html?id=u3f6389cc-b6f3-4415-a0d2-bedcba976755)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/295/19111397393_73c06a9dcc_o.png)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/272/19736917611_ba0bc4dfb3_o.png)
Hi Snowman,
there is interesting link from AMP Member "Old Noob" posted in the "Non Model Discussions" section:
http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=1319.0 (http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=1319.0)
It's a photo report about the surrendered german boats after the end of WW2. Please take a look at the third pictures (caption: "German U-boats Surrender at Lisahally, Near Londonderry, Northern Ireland, 24 - 25 May 1945. U-boat crews unload ammunition and supplies from their craft").
I'am almost sure the picture is showing the alberich coated boat U-1105 (in the rear). If you zoom in, you can spot the rubber tiles grid on the conning tower The compass housing in front of the ct seems to be rubber coated too. The lower part of the Black Panther-emblem on top of the ct can be recognized as well.
Regards
falo
Schnorchel Restraining Bracket
When the Schnorchel mast is upright it is contained within the Schnorchel restraining bracket, which is located at the top of the conning tower. The schnorchel mast is locked into position by a large locking pin, which is controlled from within the Control Room.
Tore, grease line I estimate about 8 mm?
3-D model upload to https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/collection.html?id=u4a2facb6-00be-441c-a5e5-ffd7a3c3549d (https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/collection.html?id=u4a2facb6-00be-441c-a5e5-ffd7a3c3549d)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5745/23134912520_615f3b4994_o.png)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5744/23430703995_5979135c07_o.png)
Schnorchel Restraining Bracket
When the Schnorchel mast is upright it is contained within the Schnorchel restraining bracket, which is located at the top of the conning tower. The schnorchel mast is locked into position by a large locking pin, which is controlled from within the Control Room.
Tore, grease line I estimate about 8 mm?
3-D model upload to https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/collection.html?id=u4a2facb6-00be-441c-a5e5-ffd7a3c3549d (https://3dwarehouse.sketchup.com/collection.html?id=u4a2facb6-00be-441c-a5e5-ffd7a3c3549d)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5745/23134912520_615f3b4994_o.png)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5744/23430703995_5979135c07_o.png)
Was this part of the Schnorchel cast aluminum or wire on steel? The ribbing gives me that impression.The homingbracket for the schnorchelmast was welded steel, the reason for the strengtening ribs is that you get a tremendous load on the mast both alongship as well as atwart and you don`t want to transfer those stresses to the fulcrum being susceptible to sidestresses which might create leakages and even breakages.
Does anyone if the sky and attack periscope has the same maximum diameter (180 mm)?
I have wondered this as well NZ Im guessing the T-bar would indicate access to a valve of some sort.
Does anyone know what these are? ???
I found them on the lower wintergaten, and I believe also on the upper wintergaten. I have never noted them before :-[
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5666/24034912986_f79d979a40_o.jpg)
Does anyone know what these are? ???
I found them on the lower wintergaten, and I believe also on the upper wintergaten. I have never noted them before :-[
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5666/24034912986_f79d979a40_o.jpg)
I think I workout that the two cut out on the deck are for. I believe they are locking handle for the large wooden hatch next to it. They used the same locking handle style on the Galley Hatch.
I would tend to go with the different shipyards theory. The requirement was probably just that there needed to be a railing there, and not that they all had to be done in exactly the same way. Then there could be repairs to battle damage etc. Could have been a replacement installed at the pier or in drydock, and with whatever was handy.
Same thing with limber holes. They varied from yard to yard, from boat to boat, different time periods etc etc..
Could it also been a matter of different Ships yards doing things slightly different?
From the picture, it also looks like where the stanchions attach to the upper wintergarden is also a bit different.
In fact the actual shape of the wintergarden decks also look different. One is more rounded and one seems to be more rectangular
LOVE it!
I was thinking maybe since that upper railing is not round but rather somewhat oval or flattened, maybe it was just easier for the ship builders to make sweeping cures as opposed to hard angles.
Thanks for the new ct drawings. I suppose the pipes under the upper platform are containers for spare barrels for the 3,7 cm AA gun.
Just a question: Do you have frame drawings for the ct? Maybe from some original source?
Hi NZSnowman,
To clarify
M42 LM42U single 3.7cm fitted to both type VIIs and type IXs
C38 DLM43U twin 2cm fitted both types. DLM43U would not have been able to support the 3.7cm M42 or M43
M43 LM42U single 3.7cm fitted to type VIIs and type IXs, cheaper to manufacture, greater rate of fire, shorter range (and barrel)
M42 DLM42U twin 3.7cm - U boats ]
M43 DLM42U twin 3.7cm - U boats ]same mount, just different gun[size=78%]
Or the short answer the M43 I was previously referring to was the gun not the mount. The M43 was definitely fitted to at least one U Boat, the U 534, so was most probably fitted to other boats that had their single 3.7cm upgraded to a twin during the latter months of the war, no exact date for the U 534s fitment but sometime after October '44. It would not have been necessary to develop a new mount for the M43 as its pivot point and firing linkage are virtually identical to the M42. To be honest it is very difficult to spot the difference between the M42 and M43 in wartime photos.
Regards
Jon
Hi Simon,
I will check next weekend, I am currently away from home.
Regards
Jon
Partly this is because the netting is difficult to observe from a distance. From a certain distance it is difficult to establish for certainty whether it was there or not.
But we might venture to say that there does not appear to be one specific style of netting applied universally to all boats within a certain time frame.
I noted on a few boat there a very smal tab (about 30 mm wide) between the lowest rail and rim of the floor and 1/2 between the rail posts.
I noted on a few boat there a very smal tab (about 30 mm wide) between the lowest rail and rim of the floor and 1/2 between the rail posts.
Simon can you post a picture of the tab so that I can start hunting for pictures?
PS Excellent work with that UZO
Simon, i was only able to spot the tabs on U 1306 (pic you posted) and U 1304 (commissioning ceremony), in both cases they werent photographed from a close distance. Other boats that could possibly sport them could well be U 907 and U 1165, in both cases they're either too distant or too blurred to be seen clearly.
Hi Simon,
Those links show some great photos. If there was only one then I would suggest a manufacturer's identification plate. But with four plates there they can't be that. Perhaps they had an actual function relating to the UZO operation.
Cheers,
Dougie
Style 2 the late war rounded railing
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5689/23849053250_ee4344de9f_o.png)
Hi Simon,
Sorry I have no measurement written down, only a couple of drawings. However all is not lost, which given measurements I have already taken of the U 534 I am less inclined to trust, I feel the need to make one more visit to the U 534, given her state of disrepair on my last visit it will not be a happy trip but I need to take a few more measurements and I have a better way of photographing the 3.7cm than previous.
They is a C38 in the indoor museum area which I can measure the base, it is a single mount but I am pretty sure that the bases were the same dimensions. Not sure when that will be, maybe Easter. If there is anything else that I maybe able to measure/photograph feel free to ask.
Regards
Jon
Thanks, Jon.
Have you done any research into the 2cm Flak gun stand? It very hard to pick up in war time photos especially when its reset into the wooden deck. I cannot tell if it’s on all boats but it seems to be on good number of boats.
In the photo below you can see the starboard stand.
(http://www.u-historia.com/uhistoria/tecnico/electronica/antiradar/img/u333.jpg)
http://www.u-historia.com/uhistoria/tecnico/electronica/antiradar/antiradar.htm (http://www.u-historia.com/uhistoria/tecnico/electronica/antiradar/antiradar.htm)
Hi Simon,
That is one of the things I want to have a good look at on my next trip to Birkenhead. All I can tell you at the moment is that they were mounted on a common metal mount on the upper platform of the VIIs and IXs and the deck on the later IIs, by common I mean that the mount base would fit either single of twin gun mount, but not the early 2cm on the type IIs that retracted into its own container.
Regards
Jon
Dougie, the new colours look great :D
I like both Blaugrau 58/1 & Blauschwarz 58/2
Schlickgrau 58 - RGB - 77 / 81 / 76
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/676/23205177113_d60ac9a031_o.png)
Blaugrau 58/1 - RGB - 73 / 78 / 78
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/687/23536270440_28a365e2ae_o.png)
Blauschwarz 58/2 - RGB - 22 / 34 / 34
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5821/23749472381_f5827eeed8_o.png)
Any ideas what boat this is? And where is the location? The background looks like it might be Loch Eribol (in top of Scotland). Surrendered boats had the numbers painted on white on the towers but looks like this hasn't been applied to this boat yet.
The regs state that all horizontal surfaces should be black
On page 24 of Vom Original VIIC three lids can be seen on the lower platform of the Turm IV on U 1056. It is difficult to be sure but the rearmost container could be black?
This is a bit tricky.
On the late Type IXs the ammo containers were much higher. The vertical surfaces are straightforward as they were the upper grey. The lids were, for the most part, mostly a horizontal surface and if the regulations were being strictly adhered to, painted black. However there may have been some variances, with the lids on some boats were painted with the upper grey.
Simon can you upload your most recent model I have the sketch up program and i would like to see how you have come over all
http://www.ebay.de/itm/U-1305-M-51575-U-Boot-13-9-1944-U-Boat-Indienststellung-Front-33-flottille-5-/401101335394?hash=item5d6380ab62:g:xQMAAOSwbwlXA~bq (http://www.ebay.de/itm/U-1305-M-51575-U-Boot-13-9-1944-U-Boat-Indienststellung-Front-33-flottille-5-/401101335394?hash=item5d6380ab62:g:xQMAAOSwbwlXA%7Ebq)
The part to look out for is just behind the saddle tank, at the surface of the water. There are a collection of small round holes here (13 in each group - 6 on top row, 7 on bottom row). Have you seen this before? It is new to me.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-U-Boot-Indienststellung-2-Baulehrkompanie-U-Danzig-Kriegsmarine-Polen-F-/311582945950?hash=item488bca729e:g:l6AAAOSwQgpXAW~F (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-U-Boot-Indienststellung-2-Baulehrkompanie-U-Danzig-Kriegsmarine-Polen-F-/311582945950?hash=item488bca729e:g:l6AAAOSwQgpXAW~F)
Firstly there is a barrel container sticking out of the lower platform on the port side. Secondly the ammo container lids look to be the upper colour (the twin 20mm gun can be seen to be gunmetal and is noticeably darker than the ammo lids.
There are several more in this series (just type in "U-boot foto, Danzig" and they will all be there) and they are all good quality.
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-U-Boot-Indienststellung-2-Baulehrkompanie-U-Danzig-Kriegsmarine-Polen-F-/311582945950?hash=item488bca729e:g:l6AAAOSwQgpXAW~F (http://www.ebay.de/itm/Foto-U-Boot-Indienststellung-2-Baulehrkompanie-U-Danzig-Kriegsmarine-Polen-F-/311582945950?hash=item488bca729e:g:l6AAAOSwQgpXAW%7EF)
Firstly there is a barrel container sticking out of the lower platform on the port side.
I note that U 1305 had two containers, one on either side, I wonder what U 1308 had?
Hi Snowman, hi Dougie,
impressive picture many thanks for sharing.
Some thoughts about colours. Please take a look at the attached jpg "comparison". As a preliminary point it is just an example to underline my following remarks and not to raise a claim to have spotted the accurate colours.
Let's get started: On the left side you can see the original picture and on the right side my (fast) colour corrections. Photographers know that colour photos from this area has a red and a yellow cast due to the used material (I suppose Eastmann Kodak maybe "Kodakchrome" here). The yellow cast can be spotted very good in the clouds and the whole sky area. The red cast can be recognized in the rope and brown colored areas. The surface of the sea has IMO to much magenta and yellow so it looks to blue. The whole photo seems to be a little bit saturated and underexposed. Maybe this is a result from the scan process of the original photo or the photographer did not used the optimal aperture.
In addition to it: The central issue discussing about colours is that all forum members here can not see the identical correct colours due to non-calibrated displays or individual colour profile settings. Not to mention the various settings of the display like colour temperature, brightness, gamma and so on. This problem is well known in my profession (Graphic-Design and Prepress), we call it "individual colour aspects" ;)
Regards
falo
Hi Simon,
please find attached the re-upload.
Regards
falo
Simon, great work. I have got question - do you have any drawings or photos of this "dark-grey" UZO column part?
I mean the part with one large hand-wheel at one side and smaller knob at the other side.
... I can not wait to see your work finished.
Hi Snowman,
please enter an order for that book for me. Are you planing to publish the book by yourself and release it by Amazon?
Regards
falo
Will you "coat" finally the boat with Alberich tiles?
Hi Showmann,
thanks again for sharing, amazing work!
I'am wondering if the metal plates of the wooden deck were coated with Alberich tiles (for example U 1105)?
If the plates were coated all the rivets had to be removed to get a smooth surface so the tiles could stick on the metal. What do you think?
Thanks in advance
falo
Hi Bob
Very interesting discussion.
It’s been a while since I did my non-slip stud patterns research. The first thing I noticed while doing my research was there are several different patterns of non-slip stud patterns. This difference is mostly seen between the plates from inside and outside the U-boat.
Of the ‘circular’ non-slip stud patterns, there are two style, Style A & B. From my research, I have found style A is virtually only the on bow and stern. Style B is mainly on the inside of the U-boat and on some of the metal deck hatches (but I believe style B has be put on some early Type VIIC’s bow and stern also).
Like you said, finding good photos to be 100% sure it’s very hard, however, I rechecked my photos again this morning, and with the evidence I have I am still confident that most Type VIIC’s used style A on their bow and stern.
I have very few photos of the Type IX, but I yet to see Style A on this boat, I have only seen Style B on the Type IX.
Rear jumping wire supports
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5479/30022826244_85dd2e4ea9_o.jpg)
This images has been resized. Click to view original image.
Hi Snowman,
thanks for the 3-D-drawings. To repeat myself I'am delighted with your thread.
Just one question about the sub construction of the wooden deck: Do you have a a complete top view of the metallic construction – from bow to stern?
Once again thanks for sharing and best regards!
falo
Hi Snowman,
thanks for the 3-D-drawings. To repeat myself I'am delighted with your thread.
Just one question about the sub construction of the wooden deck: Do you have a a complete top view of the metallic construction – from bow to stern?
Once again thanks for sharing and best regards!
falo
The deck framing is about 80% finish. I am still working on it.Below is a extra large version of the deck framing.
- Most of the stern section is finish just need to check a few things.
- The mid-section is finish (just remember that this deck frame is for a Type VIIC/41 and a late war Type VIIC, additional hatches and schnorchel).
- Bow section is not finish, I need better wartime photo's of the framing to finish this section.
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5585/30595182474_b9f621fbd5_o.jpg)
This images has been resized. Click to view original image.
Hi Snowman,
thanks for the cap.
I suppose you know the attached photo (an internet find which I caught a few years ago). But I find it interesting to see the frame numbers noticed with chalk on the pressure hulk cap and the outlines of the hull layout too.
Regards
falo
Hi Simon,
You are absolutely right. The more rectangular arrangement (as per your Figure 2) is the one used in the Revell VIIC/41 kits. I see it on U 953 and U 825 as well.
Can I ask what size you went for with your tower railings? When Jon and I visited the U 534 last year we measured the original railings on the tower as follows -
Top horizontal 40mm diameter
Middle horizontal 30mm diameter
Lower horizontal 22mm diameter
Verticals 40mm diameter
Hope these might help with your drawings.
Lastly, do you know the A-shaped bracket at the bottom of the twin rudders on VIICs? This lay mostly horizontally and was in the shape of the letter A. It was secured to the bottom of both rudders and then onto the bottom of the main support block. I've noticed that it was removed from the late IXs and also think it was probably removed from VIICs too (perhaps in 43 or 44 or so). It is not there on U 995. Have you got it on your drawing?
Cheers,
Dougie
Vent valve for main ballast and reserve fuel oil tanks 2 and 4.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/661/31541080265_49a4328fc4_o.png)
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(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/590/30700229384_80d3fff26f_o.png)
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(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/537/31541065615_0d26fd3b95_o.png)
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(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/318/31541066985_0a2bf4db0f_o.png)
This images has been resized. Click to view original image.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/491/31541070455_3acefef6ff_o.png)
This images has been resized. Click to view original image.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/17/31541070795_8f443c942e_o.png)
This images has been resized. Click to view original image.
Vent valve for main ballast and reserve fuel oil tanks 2 and 4.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/661/31541080265_49a4328fc4_o.png)
This images has been resized. Click to view original image.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/590/30700229384_80d3fff26f_o.png)
This images has been resized. Click to view original image.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/537/31541065615_0d26fd3b95_o.png)
This images has been resized. Click to view original image.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/318/31541066985_0a2bf4db0f_o.png)
This images has been resized. Click to view original image.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/491/31541070455_3acefef6ff_o.png)
This images has been resized. Click to view original image.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/17/31541070795_8f443c942e_o.png)
This images has been resized. Click to view original image.
If anyone is using my drawings/ imaging’s as reference material, please be aware that the Vent valve for the main ballast and reserve fuel oil tanks 2 and 4 is incorrectly position. It should be positioned 600 mm further toward the bow. I will fixs this and post updated imaging at a later stage.
Hi Simon,
is it possible for you share with us the drawings that you posted on first page of this post ? They seem to be not yet available, when one tries to open them....
I'm am an U-Boat enthusiast, and the drawings will be more pretious for my 1/48 U-552 building....
I'm now saving on my computer all your late drawings, still available on this post, but for the early ones only you can make them available again...
Thanks in advance, anyway...I love your work.
Respect.
Filippo
Hi Snowman,
thanks for the 3-D-drawings. To repeat myself I'am delighted with your thread.
Just one question about the sub construction of the wooden deck: Do you have a a complete top view of the metallic construction – from bow to stern?
Once again thanks for sharing and best regards!
falo
The deck framing is about 80% finish. I am still working on it.Below is a extra large version of the deck framing.
- Most of the stern section is finish just need to check a few things.
- The mid-section is finish (just remember that this deck frame is for a Type VIIC/41 and a late war Type VIIC, additional hatches and schnorchel).
- Bow section is not finish, I need better wartime photo's of the framing to finish this section.
(https://c3.staticflickr.com/6/5585/30595182474_b9f621fbd5_o.jpg)
This images has been resized. Click to view original image.
Hi Snowman,
thanks again, I'm curious about it how the Atlantic Bow (catchwords "underwater refueling") will look.
Please look at the attached picture, IMO it looks like a wooden mock-up of a VIIC/41, I suppose it is not very helpful for your work but I have never seen it before.
Regards
falo
So do you have a budget and a shipyard yet? Looking even better every time.
Last week Don, pick up a mistake on my drawing. I had the vent for the MB3 opening upward (fig. 2) it should open downward. I have included the new drawing below (fig. 1).
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4602/39807835182_8852d91c17_o.jpg)
Fig. 1. New MB3 vents drawings.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4613/39807830592_4a94ed625b_o.jpg)
Fig. 2. Old MB3 vents drawings.
These images has been resized. Click to view original image.
I match the viewpoint of the boat and the angle of the sun. Figure 4 seem to best match the photo.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1578/25516362414_89481a42ea_o.jpg)
Fig. 1. Wing deflector, Blauschwarz 58/2.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1570/25518492263_3b62af9e36_o.jpg)
Fig. 2. Wing deflector, Black, surface roughness 15%.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1692/25848273720_a3a50b6b43_o.jpg)
Fig. 3. Wing deflector, Black, surface roughness 20%.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1610/26028607142_385038d28c_o.jpg)
Fig. 4. Wing deflector, Black, surface roughness 30%.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1612/26121121595_4cddaa2d30_o.jpg)
Fig. 5. Wing deflector, Black, surface roughness 40%.
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1630/26121665755_74d95f7b43_o.jpg)
Fig. 6. Wing deflector, Black, surface roughness 50%.
Hi Simon,
I haven't worked out the height but I imagine you have this right given your research and drawing skills.
In regard to the shorter main drainage area on the starboard side, this appears to be in place on all VIICs, VIIC/41s and VIIDs regardless of when they were built. There must be a reason for this. I presume it is because there is something on the starboard side just under the deck which is not in place on the port side.
The main drainage area on VIIBs was the same on both sides so it is something which is specific to VIICs, VIIC/41s and VIIDs.
If you need more info on this please let me know. The way to check it out is to use the main drainage holes as a guide.
Cheers,
Dougie
Hi Simon,
Usually the top of both periscopes would be the upper grey, though there would be exceptions. I've even seen them camouflaged. If Blaugrau 58/1 is your upper colour then you would be safe to go with Blaugrau 58/1 for the tops of both periscopes.
The tower is getting really, really good now.
Cheers,
Dougie
Anyone using my drawings for reference material, please be aware that the top of the conning tower and the alignment of the periscopes is incorrect. I will post corrected alignment drawings when I fix my model.
When did the economized version of the Turm IV first start being used? In modelling U-371, it had its Turm IV installed in early Sept. 43. She was sunk on 2 May 44. Between those dates (or possibly during the Turm refit) she had Armor Boxes installed on both sides of the Bridge. They had not been removed prior to her sinking.
Hi there Folks,Looking at war-time photo's of U-977 and U-1305, I calculated:
the last years I build the Engel VIIc. Because of very much measure fails at the Floodholes and rivetlines we decited to rebuild the complete Floodholes and Rivets. Now my Questions, what are the correct measure of the Floodholes? My Measure from Pictures (big hole lines at Bow and Stern) are 390x150mm, is that possible? And wich is the correct high between both hole lines? The second measurement that is not correct is the height of the long line lower the conning tower (I think 100mm?).
Attached my actual drawing from the bowlines.
Thanks alot, and a big thanks and thumbs up to snowman, max. respect for your work and stying power!
best regards
Sascha
What exactly is that and where is it located? I see it's between Frames 7 and 8.
You are right about the bad quality images of boats with style 6 exhaust! I have about six war-time photo's of style 6, only one is of good quality but you only see about 10 cm of the exhaust, all the another photo's are very poor.
I haven't seen any really good quality images of boats with style 6 exhaust so it is hard to say with certainty.
Hello there! I am a 1/6 figure player from Hong Kong! I am currently making a U-boat periscope scene,
looking for information and pictures everywhere, but my information is limited!
Until I saw your U-boat drawing in this forum, I was pleasantly surprised to find that, you also drew this periscope!
Can I ask the moderator now, can you post a picture of the periscope for my reference!
Thank you for your assistance!
I wish you a successful publication !