AMP - Accurate Model Parts
SEA => SUBS: Gato => WARDROOM => Topic started by: wildspear on 02 Feb , 2008, 21:28
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Hey all,
Just thought I let everyone know I just received the Monster 1/72 Gato as an early B-day gift. Maybe I can do a in box reveiw and post it.
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Just out of curiosity, Wildspear, have you decided which boat you plan to build?
And while I'm here. Hey! Rokket, where are those Tench outer door slides? It's been awful quiet for a while.
Mike K.
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Hey Mike,
I plan to build her as USS Silversides SS-236. The actual sub is moored just down the road from me, also me son and I spent the night on her a couple of years ago with his boy scout troop.
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Tench doors...hmmm.never heard of em before!
OK, the outer door 2nd master prototype is done, working on Gato shutter, THEN Tench. But on the + side, the VIIC is done except for crew, so very close on Gato/Balao/Tench
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Hey All,
I was looking at the paint scheme for the USS Silversides (MS 9)
"Vertical Surfaces:
Paint entire submarine above the waterline black, formula 82. The painting shall be carried over all parts which are visible for the air including the numbers, capstan and running light boards and bridge rails. The radio insulators shall be dark. The shall be no boot topping. The underbody shall be painted with the current issues of bottom antifouling paints.
Horizontal Surfaces:
All horizontal surfaces except wood decks shall be painted Dark Gray 5-D. The systems differ only in the painting of the vertical surfaces. In case of doubt, as on sloping surfaces, use Dark Gray 5-D."
Question is.....Where do I find what color of anti-fouling paint was used?
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Threw in my 2 cents on another forum, but I think they had a black, like the VIIC.
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I have a question....... The USS Silversides was made at the Mare Island Navy Yard. Who or what was the actual company that built her? Or where would I find the info?
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Mare Island was a navy yard, I'm pretty sure it was was Navy guys, but that's an excellent question: did they employ a firm? Altho the way it's talked about, Elec Boat was employed and was most certainly NOT the Navy.
Hmmm, looked up some info, go to:
http://www.fas.org/man/company/shipyard/mare_island.htm
for some good stuff!
In 1950s 13,000 civy employees, and during WWII built Destroyer USS Ward in 17.5 days! Wow!
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Rokket,
Thanks for the quick reply. That was a good read and some great info for that ship yard.
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No worries. I love finding stuff lie that. was reading about the training facility in San Francisco, too.
There's good 40s general info and fun stuff at The Fedora Lounge - not Navy, but still worth a visit (and they do have a military uniform section):
http://www.thefedoralounge.com/
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Just sitting here and I had a question pop into my head.......I know that each sub of the same class wasn't built the same way even if it was in the same yard, but would things like the Flood(at loss for the right name) holes be the same? I have some pics of the USS Silversides but not many and I was wondering if the other subs built at Mare Island would have the same configuration of the flood holes?
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Wildspear,
As far as I know, boats built at the same yard during the same time frame would look the same-with only minor diffedences. Changes were made to their methods and design as war experience necessitated. These were made as construction permitted. Thus, boats biult as a group as in MI's case (4-5) were very similar although they were completed at somewhat different times. The changes that made individual boats look so different came along during refits between patrols where the Captain had his personal wants also added (within reason). Refits were handled by theatre yards (Pearl Harbor and Australia) and MI (for Pacific boats). Please ask Mike K if I'm right- he's lived all of this! Be patient, SS236 details will come along.
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Tas has pretty well called it. Differences were rather minor, and reflected the Captain's preferences. Deck gun fore or aft, conning tower guns, 40mm or 20mm, fore and/or aft and conning tower shape (as better ideas came along), are the kind of variations you'd see at launching.
Limber hole ( the free flood openings in the superstructure) pattern would be a yard call, with little change from ship to ship.
The Flood Ports and Flood Valve (on the bottom of the tanks, to allow water to flow into the tanks) location would be pretty well fixed in each class.
Flood Valves would be round (best shape for a valve) except for the Negative and Safety tanks, where the actual valve(s) were up, inside the tank. And not really visible, from the outside. From the outside, the Negative and Safety tank openings would look like standard Flood Ports.
Flood Ports could be round, oblong (oval), rectangular, or trapezoidal ( truncated triangle). And no sharp corners. Roughly, <>1" radius. And which would depend on what year, which yard design and what Class.
Since Silversides was an early Gato, my guess would be oval Flood Ports. But don't hold me to it. Too many fingers were in the pie, by then. Get drawings from Floating Drydock and go with that.
Just for clarification here are a few more. commonly used (or misused) terms:
Superstructure/casing/topside - the deck, deck supports and all the other stuff piled on top of the pressure hull.
Free flood - the area between the deck and the pressure hull.
Conning tower - the water tight pressure vessel on top the pressure hull. ALSO, the fairing (fair water)over the actual conning tower (now referred to as a Sail, on Nukes there is no conning tower).
I hope this helps, but it, probably doesn't.
Mike K.
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It does help mike. Like I said I'm a ground pounder by training so I know allot about war on the dirt fields but little on the ocean plains. Any and all help is welcomed. I'll be getting these books so I'll be a little more knowledgeable.
Warship Pictorial GATO Type Fleet Submarine
WW2 US Gato Class Submarines Sub Squadron Signal Book
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Good choice, Wildspear, I have both, they're outstanding.
Three others, that I'd recommend, and are still available are:
1) Osprey's, New Vanguard, "US Submarines 1941-45" by Jim Christley.
2) "U.S.S. Cod, WWII Submarine Memorial" from Oxford Press.
3) "Fleet Submarines of World War Two" from Floating Drydock
Lots of great detail info.
Three more, worth having, but out of print, are:
1) "Profile Warship #34 USS Barb (SS-220)" from Profile publications
2) "U.S.Subs in action" Warships No. 2. The old one from Squadron. Still good
3) Leeward Publication's "Ship's Data 5 USS Bowfin (SS287)
IF you can find any of them, and they're not too expensive, grab them.
Lastly, keep and eye on Periscope Film's site. They already released "The fleet Submarine" (which I swear by), and there are more in the pipe line. Also checkout their DVDs. Some of those movies, I haven't seen since the late 60s - early 70s, and others, never. AND, unlike what we see on TV, most of the reproductions are as clear as the originals. They must have some kind of filter-software, that cleans them up, a bit.
And remember, good books and reference material, beats all the experience in world, when it's coupled to an old memory. Most people forget, more than they ever learn.
Green Board and DBF,
Mike K.
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Hi Wildspear,
Mare Island was a Naval shipyard as mentioned previously and employed civil service people to build the boats under Naval supervision. Portsmouth Naval shipyard was the lead design shop for the Navy yards so MI used the PNSY design packages. The Gato class submarine was specified by the Navy Bureau of Ships and EB and Portsmouth created their own design packages. The differences were minor and mostly exterior. Things like limber hole size and number, and placement of the anchor are really the only ones we modelers are concerned about.
Here's my list of references:
Alden, John D., The Fleet Submarine in the U.S. Navy, 1979, United States Naval Institute, ISBN: 0-87021-187-0
Friedman, Norman, U.S. Submarines through 1945, 1995, United States Naval Institute, ISBN: 1-55750-263-3
Lott, Arnold S., LCdr, USN (Ret) and Sumrall, Robert F., HTC, USNR, USS Bowfin (SS287), 1975, Leeward Publications, ISBN 0-915268-05-1
Stern, Robert C., U.S. Subs in Action #2, 1983, Squadron/Signal Publications, ISBN: 0-89747-085-0
Stern, Robert C., Gato-Class Submarines in Action #28, 2006, Squadron/Signal Publications, ISBN: 0-89747-509-7
Wiper, Steve, United States Navy Gato Type Fleet Submarines, Warship Pictorial #28, December 2006, Classic Warships Publishing, ISBN: 0-9745687-7-5
The Fleet Type Submarine, NAVPERS 16160, June 1946, www.Periscope.com, ISBN: 1-4116-7753-6
The Fleet Type Submarine Online Submarine Periscope Manual, NAVPERS 16165, June 1946, available at www.maritime.org/fleetsub/pscope/
Fleet Submarines of World War Two, 1988, The Floating Drydock, ISBN: 0-933126-72-7
Plan Book, Gato & Balo Class Submarines, 1990, The Floating Drydock, ISBN: 0-944055-06-0
U.S.S. Cod WWII Submarine Memorial, Photo Museum Guide, 1999, Oxford Museum Press, Inc., ISBN: 1-930127-01-4
Another very good source of information is The Floating Drydock, http://www.floatingdrydock.com/. Tom has a number of the design documents generated by EB and PNSY and they are excellent for identifying the details. Look under his "Bu Plans" section. As has also been mentioned you must determine the year in the Silversides's career that you want to model as the boats became as unique as fingerprints over time due to modifications and overhauls. The deck guns she carried also changed a number of times during the war.
I went aboard the Silversides a few times when she was at the Navy pier in Chicago in the late '60s. Last year I got a piece of her teak deck for making a contribution to her refurbishing effort.
A couple of other things regardless of which boat or timeframe you pick: Remove the hatches on the fairwater (those were open arches) and remove the broom ( not normally displayed). Revell copied the Cobia too literally. Most museum boats have something covering the arches to prevent visitors from getting underneath the fairwater because of liability issues. The grills should go too if you are not modeling the boat as it came out of the yards brand new.
Have fun.
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Outstanding, Boomer!! A better, and more complete, list than mine.
I've got all but the Floating Drydock book, which I'd really like to have. I've got it on CD, which is better than nothing, but, I'd rather have to book. Maybe Tom'll reprint it some day.
Mike K.
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I just got the Fleet Sub #2 DVD from Periscope, great stuff! Propaganda and training from the war, and lots of other cinematic goodies, plus a little on uboats. Book is shipping separately (grrr).