Author Topic: Balcongerät Research (Read 11217 times)

NZSnowman · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 Apr , 2014, 13:19 »

I am not a 100% sure about what you are talking about but are you asking about the rivets locates?

If so, if you looking at the photo of U-1105 Balcongerät you see there a thick beading around the Balcongerät, I am not sure what it is.

But that is important thing is I only the found the thick beading on the U-1105 Balcongerät, all the other Balcongerät were smooth like my drawing. So the rivets run along the plate edge.

Hope this helps.

Simon

falo · « **Reply #16 on:** 27 Apr , 2014, 12:05 »

Hi Simon,

hope I don't mixed up things up here.

No, I'am not talking about rivets or beadings. I'am only comparing the photo of the Balcongeraet (taken during the Royal Navy inspected the boat after the german surrender at a british dockyard) and your technical drawing of the GHG. Please take a look of the now better drawn scribble, I hope this explains my concern.

Regards
Falo

NZSnowman · « **Reply #17 on:** 11 May , 2014, 15:54 »

Quote from: falo on 27 Apr , 2014, 12:05

Hi Simon,

hope I don't mixed up things up here.

No, I'am not talking about rivets or beadings. I'am only comparing the photo of the Balcongeraet (taken during the Royal Navy inspected the boat after the german surrender at a british dockyard) and your technical drawing of the GHG. Please take a look of the now better drawn scribble, I hope this explains my concern.

Regards
Falo

Hi Falo

Just got back from two weeks holiday.

Yes you are correct it my mistake! This is the only known photo/drawing of the placements of the GHG on the Type VIIC’s Balcongerät, so we need to match it.

I will update my drawing.

Thanks, Simon.

falo · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 May , 2014, 04:28 »

Hi Snowman,

hope you enjoyed your holidays.

Thanks for the information. As I described before, I noticed the shifted "Kristallempfaenger" during scratch building the GHG by pure chance. Assembled the Balkongeraet upside down and by turning the result around I realized the displaced dots.

Thanks again for the GHG drawings and regards
falo

Anakin · « **Reply #19 on:** 10 Jan , 2015, 12:48 »

Hi!

Since i am planning to build someday a viic/41 with "balcongerät" i wonder how many and witch boats had one? From what i´ve heard there were only few of them and some with tarnkappen (alberich). Also a raising schnorchel would be nice... Otherwise i just have to build a numberless/imaginary boat...

Anakin

NZSnowman · « **Reply #20 on:** 10 Jan , 2015, 13:19 »

Alberich
U11 II
U67 IXC
U480 VIIC
U485 VIIC
U486 VIIC
U1105 VIIC41
U1106 VIIC41
U1107 VIIC41
U1304 VIIC41
U1306 VIIC41
U1308 VIIC41
U4704 XXIII
U4708 XXIII
U4709 XXIII

Balkongerät
U234 X
U534 IXC40
U778 VIIC
U805 IXC40
U873 IXD2
U889 IXC40
U997 VIIC41
U1021 VIIC41
U1105 VIIC41
U1308 VIIC41
U4709 XXIII

It look like the only Type VIIC/41 with both was U-1308

Anakin · « **Reply #21 on:** 10 Jan , 2015, 13:27 »

Thanks Simon. I knew you would know

Seems like i have 3 viic/41 to choose without alberich... Perhaps easier to paint and weather.

Anakin

NZSnowman · « **Reply #22 on:** 10 Jan , 2015, 13:39 »

Quote from: Anakin on 10 Jan , 2015, 13:27

Thanks Simon. I knew you would know

Seems like i have 3 viic/41 to choose without alberich... Perhaps easier to paint and weather.

Anakin

A boat without alberich would be much easier to model as for a boat with alberich you would need to change all the free drain vents and remove all marking and rivet etc... from the castings and pressure hull. As they should look very smooth because to the alberich coating.

dougie47 · « **Reply #23 on:** 10 Jan , 2015, 16:07 »

Hello Simon,

Hope your studies are coming along well.

I have a few boats to add to your list.

Alberich
Alberich on U 470 (possibly a test boat?) in March 1943 (Source: Die Sonaranlagen der deutschen Unterseeboote by Eberhard Roessler).

Balcongeraet
U 1228 Source - http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-1228PreliminaryReport.htm
U 864 Source - Code Name Caesar: The Secret Hunt for U-Boat 864 during World War II by Jerome Preisler and Kenneth Sewell

Die Sonaranlagen der deutschen Unterseeboote by Eberhard Roessler also says the following boats were fitted with the balcongeraet -
U 194 - test boat, present on 7th January 1943
U 719 - test boat, tested in Aug / Sep 43
U 539 - April 44
U 719 - summer 44
U 180, U 195, U 877, U 878, U 879, U 880, U 881, U 889 - unknown date
U 779, U 1002, U 1019, U 1105, U 1306, U 1307, U 1308 - all commissioned with Balcon
U 682 and U 1172 - Sep/Oct 44
It says it was first fitted to operational IXs in November 1943.

Also, there is a photo of the Type XVIIB U 1407 with the Balcongeraet.

I guess that U 1306 and U 1308 had both (did U 1307 perhaps have both as well?).

Cheers,

Dougie

Capt Kremin · « **Reply #24 on:** 11 Jan , 2015, 03:46 »

Hi all,

Balkongerät

U 505, just to complete the list

Regards
Jon

NZSnowman · « **Reply #25 on:** 11 Jan , 2015, 11:11 »

Quote from: dougie47 on 10 Jan , 2015, 16:07

Hello Simon,

Hope your studies are coming along well.

I have a few boats to add to your list.

Alberich
Alberich on U 470 (possibly a test boat?) in March 1943 (Source: Die Sonaranlagen der deutschen Unterseeboote by Eberhard Roessler).

Balcongeraet
U 1228 Source - http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-1228PreliminaryReport.htm
U 864 Source - Code Name Caesar: The Secret Hunt for U-Boat 864 during World War II by Jerome Preisler and Kenneth Sewell

Die Sonaranlagen der deutschen Unterseeboote by Eberhard Roessler also says the following boats were fitted with the balcongeraet -
U 194 - test boat, present on 7th January 1943
U 719 - test boat, tested in Aug / Sep 43
U 539 - April 44
U 719 - summer 44
U 180, U 195, U 877, U 878, U 879, U 880, U 881, U 889 - unknown date
U 779, U 1002, U 1019, U 1105, U 1306, U 1307, U 1308 - all commissioned with Balcon
U 682 and U 1172 - Sep/Oct 44
It says it was first fitted to operational IXs in November 1943.

Also, there is a photo of the Type XVIIB U 1407 with the Balcongeraet.

I guess that U 1306 and U 1308 had both (did U 1307 perhaps have both as well?).

Cheers,

Dougie

Thanks, Dougie!

I have updated my database. U-1306 and U-1308 had both, it almost certain that includes U-1307 also.

NZSnowman · « **Reply #26 on:** 11 Jan , 2015, 11:11 »

Quote from: Capt Kremin on 11 Jan , 2015, 03:46

Hi all,

Balkongerät

U 505, just to complete the list

Regards
Jon

Thanks

NZSnowman · « **Reply #27 on:** 01 Feb , 2015, 22:55 »

Hi Dougie

I just found a photo on German EBay of U-1305, and there strong evidence that U-1305 of batch U-1301 - U-1308 was never fixed with Alberich like U-1306, U-1307 and U-1308.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/U-1305-U-Boot-Bordgeschutz-1944-Flensburg-Norwegen-U-Boat-VIIC-41-Christiansen-/390954808145?pt=Fotografien_Fotokunst&hash=item5b06b8f351

U-1105 - All known Alberich boat use this pattarn (4 large vents).

U-1305 - The large vents are missing.

dougie47 · « **Reply #28 on:** 02 Feb , 2015, 10:05 »

Hi Simon,
I've checked the Roessler book again and it is quite clear. It says U 1304 and U 1306 (it does not say U 1304 to U 1306). This implies U 1305 did not have the Alberich.
The photo on Ebay shows the boat being commissioned so we can be absolutely sure it did not have Alberich on 13th Sept 44.
This photo shows the boat in may 45 -
http://www.deepstorm.ru/DeepStorm.files/17-45/for_con/germania/VIIC41/U1305/U1305.htm
The quality isn't great but it looks to me like the medium sized vents above the saddle tanks (the ones you are rightly using as a comparison) are the normal type, not the Alberich type.
Is it possible Alberich was applied after Sept 44 and then removed before May 45? I think this would be highly unlikely.
So yes, although not 100% certain, I'd say there was very strong evidence Alberich was not fitted to U 1305.
Cheers,
Dougie

NZSnowman · « **Reply #29 on:** 02 Feb , 2015, 10:49 »

Quote from: dougie47 on 02 Feb , 2015, 10:05

Hi Simon,
I've checked the Roessler book again and it is quite clear. It says U 1304 and U 1306 (it does not say U 1304 to U 1306). This implies U 1305 did not have the Alberich.
The photo on Ebay shows the boat being commissioned so we can be absolutely sure it did not have Alberich on 13th Sept 44.
This photo shows the boat in may 45 -
http://www.deepstorm.ru/DeepStorm.files/17-45/for_con/germania/VIIC41/U1305/U1305.htm
The quality isn't great but it looks to me like the medium sized vents above the saddle tanks (the ones you are rightly using as a comparison) are the normal type, not the Alberich type.
Is it possible Alberich was applied after Sept 44 and then removed before May 45? I think this would be highly unlikely.
So yes, although not 100% certain, I'd say there was very strong evidence Alberich was not fitted to U 1305.
Cheers,
Dougie

Dougie, did you also noted in the photo on Ebay of U-1305 that it had double spare 37 mm Gun Barrels. I have never see this before.

All the photo's I have of the spare 37 mm Gun Barrel are, single and on the starbroad side of the boat.