Author Topic: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details (Read 655203 times)

tore · « **Reply #3800 on:** 17 Oct , 2017, 02:38 »

On many of the valves not frequently used we removed the handwheels to prevent accidental operation. As to the gatevalves in the venting systems for MBT/fuelreservetanks 2 and 4, the gatevalves were only operated when changing the systems from ballast and fuel configuration and vice versa. I guess the standard would be to remove the wheels. A wheel wrench is a tool very often used by the crew for many type of valves. If you study the "sliced" XIC in US you`ll find many gatevalves in the casing, most of them tilted to accommodate the high valvecasing, a drawback of the gate valves. The images are from a IXC but I guess the same valves are used for the VIIC as well. You may see quite a few of the valves have no wheels fitted and are even operated by bevel gears and rods, I guess however on a VIIC they were mostly locally operated..

Don Prince · « **Reply #3801 on:** 18 Oct , 2017, 17:50 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

From what I can see on the Type VII U-Boats, the hand-wheels were not installed on the gate valves for FBT2 and FBT 4 on the venting duct; there was no room for the hand-wheels because of the deck space above was practically nil. However, there looks to possibly be space to install the hand-wheels on the FBT 2 residual gate valves. The photo of the crewman going out in bad weather with a claw tool in his hand may support that theory. We'll just wait and see if Simon's new drawing of the hand-wheels for the gate valves on the FBT 2 residual cross-over pipe has the space above and below the deck...

I uploaded my latest version of Skizzenbuch to my Dropbox folder which has major changes to pages 86 and 88 (lower half)...

Regards,
Don_

NZSnowman · « **Reply #3802 on:** 19 Oct , 2017, 11:23 »

Hi Don

I was looking at page 86 and the FBT4's gates valves are cover with different hatches compare to FBT2's. I will try to post pictures today after work.

Simon

Don Prince · « **Reply #3803 on:** 19 Oct , 2017, 13:55 »

Hi Simon,

No rush... I'm only at page 237 on my review of Skizzenbuch.

Regards,
Don_

NZSnowman · « **Reply #3804 on:** 20 Oct , 2017, 01:12 »

Quote from: NZSnowman on 19 Oct , 2017, 11:23

Hi Don

I was looking at page 86 and the FBT4's gates valves are cover with different hatches compare to FBT2's. I will try to post pictures today after work.

Simon

Fig. 1. Port FBT4's gates valve hatch.
This images has been resized. Click to view original image.

Fig. 2. Starborad FBT4's gates valve hatch.
This images has been resized. Click to view original image.

Don Prince · « **Reply #3805 on:** 20 Oct , 2017, 03:06 »

Hi Simon and Mr Tore,

Great images... I believe I may need to do some major changes to this Skizzenbuch section with all the latest drawings. It looks like the gate valves in this set of drawings has access for the change-over through the wooden deck doors. Again, I don't believe there is room for a hand-wheel to be installed on these gate valves...

(37096971424_5f62d20993_o) - this drawing sort of compares to the attached photo of U-201. If you look at the RED circled area there is a hole in the deck. During the change-over to the water ballast configuration the FBT 2 and FBT 4 gate valves must be opened (access through the wooded deck doors)?

What does this mean for the drawing for U - 1308 and the metal plates with holes to change the gate valve configuration?

However, the header tank water pressure to FBT 2 and FBT 4 must also be cut-off. Could the round holes in the deck be the access point to change-over the header tank water pressure selector valves? I remember the photos of the Type IX/C U-534 had the selector valves under the deck with what looked like there was plenty of room to install a hand-wheel, but there was none to be seen...

Regards,
Don_

NZSnowman · « **Reply #3806 on:** 22 Oct , 2017, 01:05 »

Quote from: Don Prince on 20 Oct , 2017, 03:06

(37096971424_5f62d20993_o) - this drawing sort of compares to the attached photo of U-201. If you look at the RED circled area there is a hole in the deck. During the change-over to the water ballast configuration the FBT 2 and FBT 4 gate valves must be opened (access through the wooded deck doors)?

What does this mean for the drawing for U - 1308 and the metal plates with holes to change the gate valve configuration?

Hi Don

The different between U-1308 and the war-time photo of the hatches for the FBT4's gates valve is easily explained… the Schnorchel.

When they added the Schnorchel piping they had to change the hatches around the front of the CT casting.

Don Prince · « **Reply #3807 on:** 22 Oct , 2017, 15:28 »

Hi Simon,

Agreed, but not a great deal of difference of the hatches around the tower center and aft section... The U-Boat with the Atlantic bow added 280 mm forward.

Note - the drawings may have a slight error as to the exact locations of the hatches...

NZSnowman · « **Reply #3808 on:** 23 Oct , 2017, 14:35 »

Hi Don & Tore

Any idea of the pipe dimension of the Fuel oil venting piping (http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570/U-570Plate8.htm) for MB & RFO Tanks 2 & 4?

NZSnowman · « **Reply #3809 on:** 24 Oct , 2017, 02:23 »

Main Diesel Engine Exhaust System Group

Hi Don & Tore

While researching the Fuel oil compensating system, I noted that my original right-angle gearing which was based on the internal right-angle gearing was incorrect, below are the correct style of right angle gearing. It looks like the big different is how it was fixed, it not a pipe flange but a large hex screw.

Fig. 1. Original right-angle gearing.

Fig. 2. New right-angle gearing.

These images has been resized. Click to view original image.

Don Prince · « **Reply #3810 on:** 24 Oct , 2017, 02:27 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

I have been reviewing pages 61 through page 63... See the attachment.

The lines above and external are used to test for when the RFO saddle tanks and internal tanks are full...

The hull section on the right shows the sampling of the internal bunker/tank 2 going to a bucket to measure the remaining fuel oil. What I believe they are doing with the 3 other lines is testing for water when the tanks are empty; FBT 4 port and Stb and IB 2 (1 bucket with 4 lines).

The hull center section in the center shows the same setup for the internal fuel oil bunker/tank 1 for measuring the contents. They have another line going to a single bucket where they are testing for water when the IB 1 tank is empty (1 bucket 2 lines).

The hull center section - the lines at the top of R 1 port and stb go to a bucket, but I'm not sure why... They could open the lines going to the bucket to allow R 1 to vent while refueling, and monitor the long glass sight tube to know when to stop the pumping.

a) What is this bucket for and where is it located?
b) If the valves were shut going to the bucket, and the depot pumping continued for a few seconds. What kind of problem could result?

The meaning of Transfer, Delivery, and Venting...
c) The line in R 1 is pressurized when transferring fuel oil to another tank
d) The line in R 1 is pressurized when delivering fuel oil to the gravity/day tank to fuel the diesel engines.
e) The line in R 1 is venting when the tank is being refueled by a pumping station.

Are these the correct definitions for Transfer, Delivery, and Venting in this instance?

The hull section on left looks OK... They can test the FRO 2 saddle tanks for water at the top when the tanks are empty.

One additional question... Were the collection funnels for fuel oil over-flow physically below the deck, or was there only the vent lines with shut-off valves? So the fuel oil depot station personnel carried the funnels on-board to drain the fuel oil over-board?

I really apologize for changing this post so many times - I'm finding out things as I go...
Regards,
Don_

Don Prince · « **Reply #3811 on:** 24 Oct , 2017, 02:42 »

Hi Simon,

What is different from this?

Regards,
Don_

Don Prince · « **Reply #3812 on:** 24 Oct , 2017, 21:39 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

I solved one issue that was confusing me... "Austritt Triebölmeßgefäß" = Outlet drive oil measuring vessel or "fuel oil measuring vessel", this is NOT an "Air Gauge" that I had labeled on Plan 8 and Plan 8a!!! I could not figure how to get it to work and measure fuel oil pressure...

I found "Austr Triebölmeßgefäß" in the Type IX plans and we had "Austr Meßgefäß" in the type VII C plans for the same device...

Regards,
Don_

NZSnowman · « **Reply #3813 on:** 24 Oct , 2017, 21:42 »

Quote from: Don Prince on 24 Oct , 2017, 21:39

Hello Mr. Tore,

I solved one issue that was confusing me... "Austritt Triebölmeßgefäß" = Outlet drive oil measuring vessel or "fuel oil measuring vessel", this is NOT an "Air Gauge" that I had labeled on Plan 8 and Plan 8a!!! I could not figure how to get it to work and measure fuel oil pressure...

I found "Austr Triebölmeßgefäß" in the Type IX plans and we had "Austr Meßgefäß" in the type VII C plans for the same device...

Regards,
Don

NZSnowman · « **Reply #3814 on:** 24 Oct , 2017, 21:47 »

Quote from: Don Prince on 24 Oct , 2017, 02:42

Hi Simon,

What is different from this?

Regards,
Don_

This is a old drawing and there has been a few big updates of the Diesel Engine Exhaust system.

Don Prince · « **Reply #3815 on:** 25 Oct , 2017, 21:16 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

I am still working on the Plans 8 and 8a dealing with fuel oil testing and measurements. I have ran across some inconsistencies between these plans.

Plan 8 shows a horizontal view of the fuel oil tanks with the various pipe connections and collection buckets, and we see 2 pipes going to the aft collection bucket and 4 pipes going to the forward collection bucket in the control room. This drawing seems to agree with the many photos that I have on file.

Plan 8a shows a frontal slice view of the fuel oil tanks with the various pipe connections and the collection buckets, and we see 4 pipes going to the aft collection buckets and 4 pipes going to the forward collection bucket in the control room.

Obviously, Plan 8 and Plan 8a don't agree, so something looks to be very wrong! Plan 8a shows two pipes from the top of the R 1 regulating tanks port and starboard and then to a collection bucket. However, plan 7 shows the very same 2 air pipes from R 1 going to a muffler.

Therefore, I believe Plan 8a should be noted as being incorrect, or I could graphically make correction to the drawing... I have attached the 3 plan drawings... What do you think?

Regards,
Don_

Don Prince · « **Reply #3816 on:** 25 Oct , 2017, 22:22 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

What do you think of this change?

Regards,
Don_

Don Prince · « **Reply #3817 on:** 29 Oct , 2017, 20:49 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

I changed the attached photo because I had the vent valve labeled incorrectly as the MBT 3 Vent... It's too high to be MBT 3's vent valve. I also have a question about the pipes for exhaust blowing MBT 3. Do the piped from the exhaust blowing manifold enter the upper pressure hull area and then extend down to MBT 3? If so, then would these pipes be wrapped with an insulation in the control room?

Answer to my question - I found in Simon's layered drawing that the MBT 3 blowing pipes are attached to the side of the round casing to the MBT 3 vent valve... Good work Simon!

Regards,
Don_

Don Prince · « **Reply #3818 on:** 05 Nov , 2017, 02:30 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

Have you and the wife made it back from the farm to the city? Things have been quiet on the website... I just wanted to make sure that you all are OK!

Regards,
Don_

Don Prince · « **Reply #3819 on:** 20 Nov , 2017, 02:59 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

I have updated the Bow Hydroplane drawing on page 195... I know that I shouldn't let my mind wonder! But, If the Bow hydroplane operator in the control room had to switch to manual controls, then the clutch on the spindle is engaged with the manual drive gear.

Later after a repair is made, then the electric motor clutch may be engaged again. However, there is the location of the resistive network which is driven by the motor shaft and may not indicate the correct hydroplane angle. It is not likely that the clutch will be engaged at the previous hydroplane angle when it was dis-engaged...

How do they reset the bow hydroplane angle to match the mechanical angle indicators? I'm thinking it has to be done at the resistive network unit because it needs to reflect the present hydroplane angle...

Regards,
Don_

PS - At NCR (National Cash Register) we had a punch mark to align timing gears on mechanical registers. They could bring the hydroplaned to indicate 0° on the mechanical indicators and then un-mesh the Resistive Unit and get it back into time with the hydroplanes where the electric indicator now reads 0°?

Don Prince · « **Reply #3820 on:** 20 Nov , 2017, 03:49 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

I believe the answer to the Hydroplane timing issue may be very simple... After engaging the hydroplane drive motor clutch - The resistive unit may have hard internal end stops and a slip drive clutch; where the hydroplane operator sets the hydroplane to a hard full up, and then to a hard full down. That should time the resistive unit with the hydroplanes again. At least that's the way I would do it... What do you think?

Regards,
Don_

Don Prince · « **Reply #3821 on:** 30 Nov , 2017, 00:30 »

Hello Mr. Tore and all,

I have uploaded the latest version of Skizzenbuch into my Dropbox folder. I have verified to the best of my ability about 2/3rds of the book and updated the torpedo section with new material. Maciek was the expert in this area, and I believe he would be proud of his student's efforts...

Regards,
Don_

bianco64squalo · « **Reply #3822 on:** 30 Nov , 2017, 23:21 »

Hi Mr. Don,
when do you think that the materials you are collecting and producing will be available for all U-Boat enthusiasts ?
I try to collect the crumbs of your fantastic work from the various threads of the forums, but I'll look in advance for the complete work...
Thanks anyway for your research....
Filippo

Don Prince · « **Reply #3823 on:** 03 Dec , 2017, 12:29 »

Hi Filippo,

I sent an email to the Naval Institute Press yesterday evening and I believe I should receive a reply on Monday or perhaps Tuesday... Things have been dragging-out with these publishers; they seem never to have any priority when it comes to books. I will post more info later.

Regards,
Don_

Don Prince · « **Reply #3824 on:** 09 Dec , 2017, 01:09 »

Hello All,

I did get a response from the Naval Institute Press as follows:

Don,

We are still reviewing the work. The length does present a challenge but we’re not sure two volumes is the best solution. Will be back to you when we have a final decision.

Best regards,
Paul

Paul Merzlak
Editorial Director
Naval Institute Press
U.S. Naval Institute
291 Wood Road
Annapolis, MD 21402

So, we'll see what happens....
Regards,
Don_

dougie47 · « **Reply #3825 on:** 09 Dec , 2017, 05:22 »

Hi Don,

Thanks for the update. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Cheers,

Dougie

Don Prince · « **Reply #3826 on:** 11 Dec , 2017, 03:16 »

Hello Mr. Tore and All,

I am up to page 409 on my proof reading. That doesn't mean it's all exactly correct in all cases... Simon just found an error back on page 42! I had the top of the Q Tank drawn with a high ridge which only applies to FBT 2 and FBT 4. I corrected the drawing error and added the round flowing tank top.

I uploaded the latest version of Skizzenbuch to my Dropbox folder...

Regards,
Don_

David83 · « **Reply #3827 on:** 16 Dec , 2017, 10:01 »

Maybe this helps too i found this picture in an Book its of building U238
Exhaust outlet can be seeing very good it has another flange in the ground part .

br David

Don Prince · « **Reply #3828 on:** 20 Dec , 2017, 01:08 »

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year - May next year bring all joy and happiness and friendships that last forever...

Kind regards,
Don and Maureen Prince

bianco64squalo · « **Reply #3829 on:** 20 Dec , 2017, 03:57 »

Thanks Don and wife.....many wishes from Padova, Italy....

VIC20 · « **Reply #3830 on:** 20 Dec , 2017, 06:05 »

Merry Christmas

Don Prince · « **Reply #3831 on:** 22 Dec , 2017, 03:07 »

Hello Mr. Tore and All,

I have completed my reviewed and corrected Skizzenbuch and posted the latest version into Dropbox... I also posted the latest images in the "Files Folder"...

Regards,
Don_

Don Prince · « **Reply #3832 on:** 07 Feb , 2018, 21:05 »

Hello Mr. Tore and All,

I have had several email exchanges with Mr. Tore over the past few weeks and have learned quite a bit about the setup and procedures for starting the Diesel engines and would like to pass-on the knowledge...

*********************************************************************************************************************************************

The training manual on the uboatarchive.net website that was provided by me (Don) and translated by Maciek only has only one mention of a flywheel. This is on a page that has a drawing of the drive train... The flywheel is on the back side of the crank shaft near the operating panel and it does not look to be a huge mass???

With your help, I'm beginning to understand that the main clutch is already engaged with the diesel engine during startup. This is a new concept to me, as I was concerned about starting the diesel engine on compressed air and getting the required RPM with the added mass of the clutch and the e-motor armatures during a compressed air starting procedure! This configuration will relieve the main diesel clutch of any undue friction on the clutch cones during startup; the cultch and dual e-motor armatures contribute to the mass as a flywheel to balance out any vibration (virtually a flywheel on both sides of the crankshaft).

1. So, it looks like the main clutch on the diesel engine side will not get the initial friction load like I was considering during startup and coming online with the prop. However, it now looks like the clutch in back of the e-motors will take on that initial friction load when engaging the prop. But, most of the masses on the drive line are already in motion, therefore the smaller mass of the aft drive shaft, the prop, and the water resistance to the prop spinning are not of a great concern (overall a much smaller mass for the e-motor clutch to handle).

2. My take away from our discussions about the main clutch at the diesel engine is that this clutch is engaged before starting the diesel engine and disengaged after stopping the diesel engine. Therefore, the only variation would be a possible emergency manual clutch engagement or disengagement...

Regards,
Don_

Don Prince · « **Reply #3833 on:** 10 Feb , 2018, 01:24 »

Hello Mr. Tore and All,

I just uploaded the latest version of Skizzenbuch into Dropbox... I updated pages 420 through 422 covering the "Clutches." Any comments will be appreciated.

Regards,
Don_

Don Prince · « **Reply #3834 on:** 24 Feb , 2018, 22:49 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

Congratulation!!! Norway crushed the competition at the Winter Olympics in Soul South Korea with a medal count of 39, Germany came in a distant second with 31, then Canada with 29, and the USA with 23, and the Netherlands with 20.

This was the final count...

Regards,
Don_

VIC20 · « **Reply #3835 on:** 24 Feb , 2018, 22:55 »

We still have to play ice hockey today.

Don Prince · « **Reply #3836 on:** 14 Mar , 2018, 03:43 »

Hello All,

I just got this email from Mr. Tore....

"Don I am currently in hospital for a stroke. In spite of my age I am hoping to be home after Easter if everything goes right.

Tore"

Let all keep Mr. Tore in our prayers and hope for a full recovery...
Regards,
Don_

falo · « **Reply #3837 on:** 14 Mar , 2018, 09:20 »

Hi Don,

thanks for the information.

@Tore: Please get well soon.

Regards
falo

dougie47 · « **Reply #3838 on:** 14 Mar , 2018, 13:19 »

Hello Don,

Thanks for passing on the news. Please pass the warmest regards from all of us the next time you are in contact with him by email.

Cheers,

Dougie

VIC20 · « **Reply #3839 on:** 14 Mar , 2018, 15:59 »

Tore, get well soon.

Raymic1 · « **Reply #3840 on:** 17 Mar , 2018, 14:04 »

Dear Mr Tore.
I am new to this forum but see that for 6+ years you have been able to share and pass on some fantastic first hand insights into the operation and daily life on an ex working Norwegian Sub/ German U boat.
This information is invaluable for future generations so thank you.

Please take the time to rest and recuperate, your health is always most important.
Best
Mike

New Zealand

Don Prince · « **Reply #3841 on:** 24 Mar , 2018, 03:03 »

Hello Mr. Tore and all,

I don't expect Mr. Tore to respond to this posting because he is still in the hospital recovering from a stroke (Get well soon because I miss you). However, I am just posting some of my findings about the main clutch in the e-room. If you first examine the photo from u-historia.com they identify the levers function as to engage/disengage the main clutch [see photo 650 - page 419 (1).png].

Look at at image [Manual Type VII C (1).jpg] which indicates the main clutch is a friction type clutch similar to the diesel clutch. This seems to eliminate the possibility of the main clutch as being a "Spring Wrap Type Clutch" in the e-room.

Now look at the photo [Hebel3(2).jpg] which has detail not seen before. I have marked how I believe this lever in the e-room works. It looks to me as the lever is raised and the lever dog engages the gears wheel in the aft section of the clutch and possibly stops the drive shaft from being rotated when the Diesel engine is stopped. Therefore, sea water washing over the prop cannot turn the drive shaft. Is this the brake that is shown in the "Manual Type VII C(1).jpg?

These are only questions that I have and I'm looking forward to more photos. Reference photo Hebel2(1).jpg... Are there any suggestions from others that read my observations?

Regards,
Don_

Don Prince · « **Reply #3842 on:** 31 Mar , 2018, 00:04 »

Hello All,

Just a quick note about Mr. Tore... He is out of the hospital and back home in the city. He has some issues with his right side after the stroke, but he is having therapy and said he hopes to have his driver's license back in September and be back to normal. I'm sure we all wish him a speedy recovery...

Regards,
Don_

PS: If anybody has any basic questions about the Type VII C U-Boat, then I would be glad to provide you some of Mr. Tore's information that I have documented in my Skizzenbuch. I believe some of the previous posted images may have been lost during a website upgrade.

VIC20 · « **Reply #3843 on:** 31 Mar , 2018, 01:16 »

Glad to hear he is back at home so he can search for eggs on Easter Sunday.

Don Prince · « **Reply #3844 on:** 28 Apr , 2018, 19:00 »

Hello All,

Just a quick update on Mr. Tore's progress after his stroke - He is going to physical therapy about three times a week and exercising at home, and it looks like he will be able to drive his car in a few months. You just can't hold a good old barnacled U-Boat seaman down...

Regards,
Don_

Don Prince · « **Reply #3845 on:** 02 Jul , 2018, 21:47 »

Hello All,

Great News! It looks like Mr. Tore has completed his physical therapy and has gotten back his drivers license. Now he is off to his farm for a summer vacation...

Regards,
Don_

VIC20 · « **Reply #3846 on:** 03 Jul , 2018, 01:10 »

Glad to hear that

42rocker · « **Reply #3847 on:** 03 Jul , 2018, 19:42 »

Great news. Thoughts and Prayers.

Later Tim

tore · « **Reply #3848 on:** 07 Jul , 2018, 09:06 »

Yes I am back and are possibly able to answer questions. I had to move back to civilization as my wife fell asleep while driving her car, totally wrecking it. Luckily she only broke her hand but got to be in the hospital for some time hence my stay in Oslo area.
Tore

Raymic1 · « **Reply #3849 on:** 08 Jul , 2018, 04:56 »

Nice to hear you are back and recovering
I hope you wife is ok too.
Thank you for all your years of invaluable knowledge and may you have many more healthy years.

tore · « **Reply #3850 on:** 08 Jul , 2018, 09:09 »

I see quite a few question were raised while I have been away. One is about the valvehandles in the E-room under the switch table. An often forgotten details is the rather complex seacoolingwater system in the E-room, complex because there are so many alternatives and very narrow. Below is an extract of the coolingwatersystem in the E-room plate 13 showing the cooling og the Emotors/generators, Michell thrustbearings, sterntubes and compressors. I have only explained the port system for the e-motor /generator as we have dealt with the compressors before. The maininlet for the coolingwater pump is on the port side and the outlet is on the stb side. As mention before the system can be served by the pumps in the controlroom as well.

Don Prince · « **Reply #3851 on:** 09 Jul , 2018, 16:26 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

Great answers as usual... Recently, I got some photos of the objects below the Port Switchboard and have attached them for a discussion...

Regards,
Don_

Don Prince · « **Reply #3852 on:** 09 Jul , 2018, 22:12 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

Best wishes for a full recovery for your wife... My wife Maureen who has never caused an auto accident says I'm a terrible driver and I drive way too fast! Tell her you love her, and we all hope she comes home very soon...

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3853 on:** 10 Jul , 2018, 00:40 »

Thanks for good wishes, my wife and me are doing fine by together using the parts of our body which are working. Feeling a bit like KNM Kaura -U 995 having parts gradually detoriating and being renewed, possibly not up to the original standard. Like the U 995 anchor bay f.inst. which as many of your accurate modellers have noticed have been misplaced about one frame aft on the Revell kit and the museum U995 at Laboe which for some reason has been equipped with an anchorfluke homing pad which never was there on the original U 995. See my image below.

Don Prince · « **Reply #3854 on:** 10 Jul , 2018, 03:32 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

When I look at Plan 13 the cooling water system, it looks like Cooling Water Out valves on the starboard side are always open to have the water flow through the e-motor coolers, bearings, thrust bearings and Junkers compressor. Then when the U-Boat dives, the valves are opened on the port side to provide the cooling water for the stern mechanisms, plus provide cooling water for the diesel engines towards the diesel room.

When running silent, would they ever shut off the cooling water pump?

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3855 on:** 10 Jul , 2018, 04:10 »

Hi Don.
I cannot state for sure how they did it in the German navy in WW2, but in my time all our submarines, including the VIICs, had annual noisetrials in a Scotish loch where the sub was semi submerged surrounded by sofisticated microphones. Each auxiliaries on silent mountings was operated separately and a complete soundgraph for the machinery (included pumps of course) was made. We knew exactly which auxilliarly we could operate. At silent running we only operated those auxs which were within the approved silent range. This was usually the coolingwater pump in the E-room. The trim pump (piston) we sometimes used the crew for sifting the trim as the pump sometimes could be too noisy in spite of the silent mounting.

Don Prince · « **Reply #3856 on:** 11 Jul , 2018, 07:41 »

Hello Mr. Tore and All,

I have uploaded the latest version of Skizzenbuch 11 x 17 - M + I.pdf into the Dropbox folder. Pages 33, 125, 126, 127, 128, 426, 427 have been added. However, there is no index because I am in the progress of creation a new one. Please advise if anything looks to be incorrect... This looks to be the final version except for any required corrections.

Regards,
Don_

Raymic1 · « **Reply #3857 on:** 11 Jul , 2018, 18:29 »

Hi Don
Just to clarify for me as I see you have all been working on this for years.
The Skizzenbach is a book and is the dropbox file a private box for you guys whilst you are working on your project?
Also will the Skizzenbach be available later for public viewing/purchasing etc?
Thanks

Don Prince · « **Reply #3858 on:** 11 Jul , 2018, 22:18 »

Hello Raymic1,

So far "Skizzenbuch: U-Boat Type VII C Project" is my attempt to create a book that informed the reader about almost all aspects of the design, functionality, and operation procedures of the German WWII Type VII C U-Boat. In the beginning - a few years back, I had a contract with Schiffer Publishing for the book. However, they cancelled the contract about two weeks before I was to get my author's proof copy of the book. Looking back, the cancellation was probably a good thing because I have made many changes and corrections to Skizzenbuch. I have been looking for a new publisher ever since, but with no success because most publishers say the market is too limited and the book is expensive to publish.

Skizzenbuch requires a format size of 12" x 7.75" - Landscape at a minimum, and the page count is about 510 pages including the index and at least three (3) fold-outs sheet in the back of the book. I have suggested to various publishing companies that Skizzenbuch should be a two (2) volume set. There are well over 700+ color photos and original German mechanical and electrical schematics in the book.

If I can not find a book publisher, then I may eventually go it alone... By that I mean - I could go to the expense to U.S. copyright Skizzenbuch, create an LLC publishing company and purchase the software to copy protect a downloadable file. Most likely the file will be free, and I could get books printed on demand but they would be very expensive. I am a 77 year old retired NCR Plant Maintainability & Support Engineer and Computer Hardware and Software Support Engineer with over 46 years of experience... However, I am NOT wealthy!

Kind regards,
Don_

Raymic1 · « **Reply #3859 on:** 11 Jul , 2018, 22:38 »

Wow...thanks Don. That clarifies for me and I'm in awe of yours and Tores and others dedication.
In regards to complete accuracy my opinion is that given the incomplete and lost knowledge due to the loss of documents and time frame, most books already in circulation and all experts still have mistakes.
So even if mistakes are found when you release yours, the Uboat community would be very happy with any concise information and other experts would no doubt take up the challenge of continuing this as an ongoing works in progress.
And I for one would be happy to pay a fee for the PDF version if a full book was prohibitive.
I'm sure the rest of the Uboat community grateful for your efforts would also agree.

bianco64squalo · « **Reply #3860 on:** 11 Jul , 2018, 23:28 »

I completely agree with Raymic...I'm sure that many U-Boat enthusiasts would be happy to pay a fee to have the PDF file and print it on their own...
Please, Don, not disperse all that material and make available, as soon as possible, the PDF file....
Filippo

VIC20 · « **Reply #3861 on:** 12 Jul , 2018, 03:40 »

You could publish it via a print on demand service.

bianco64squalo · « **Reply #3862 on:** 12 Jul , 2018, 05:28 »

Hi Don,
in any case, in my opinion, the right thing to do is to make available the material in your possession for all U-Boat enthusiasts...
I suggest that you contact an expert in file sharing and find out a solution that safeguards your copyright and availability for interested parties too....
I'm very, very interested...
Respect.
Filippo

tore · « **Reply #3863 on:** 12 Jul , 2018, 05:41 »

Don.

Skizzenbuch page 125 Schnorchel system. I guess you have been confused by two system. The VIICs schnorchel system comes in two version, the old and the later improved system. Below is my image showing the two versions. If you look at the old system it is full of bends, hence resistance, the new system elliminates the schnorchel airpipe alongside the diesel air trunk by introducing the schnorchel air straigth in to the dieselair trunk, otherwise I guess the image is shelfexplanatory.
Tore

tore · « **Reply #3864 on:** 12 Jul , 2018, 10:30 »

Don

page 126
You are describing a diesel cycle calling it two cycle, four strokediesel. I guess this is a confusion as the VIICs have two four stroke supercharged medium speed dieselengines. Unless I have misunderstood you , I suggest you omit the paragraph dealing with this dieselcycle.

page 127
The dieselengine coolingwater outlet leave the engine to the exhaust bend coolingjacket, before leaving the engine, part of the coolingwater flow is manually adjusted to the correct watertemperatur read at a local thermometer to the exhaustvalve cage coolingjacket. This has nothing to do with the exhausttemperatur, only to cool the exhaustvalve cage seating to prevent burning.

As to the watercooled exhaust manifold which is having a water jacket all the way to overboard it is easy to be confused by the numerous venting and drainingpipes of the cooling waterjackets, non of them are used for draining a flooded exhaust manifold. At the bottom in the aft end of the exhaustmanifold is a drain pipe to the bilge this is the only drainpipe to the inside of the manifold used for draining a flooded manifold. This drain pipe is unfortunately not shown on plate 13. The drain of the inside of the group exhaustvalve is shown on plate 13.
Tore

tore · « **Reply #3865 on:** 12 Jul , 2018, 12:39 »

Don.
May be it gives a better understanding to see a crossection of a typical watercooled exhaustvalve cage.

Don Prince · « **Reply #3866 on:** 12 Jul , 2018, 21:45 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

Page 125 - My intent on that page was to show the huge size of the diesel air intake trunk (dark blue in Simon's drawing). Then to compare the smaller schnorchel air feed line attachment to the diesel air intake trunk. The schnorchel head air intake feeds air through the mast to a bend (newer design) or a pipe on the port side of the forward bridge (older design). Either way, the air intake from the schnorchel mast is limited in volume as compared to when running on the surface and taking air via the diesel air trunk. In addition, the compartmental air intake and exhaust stacks are shut when the schnorchel is in use; further limiting the air supply to the U-Boat.

Therefore, the air resource is limited when the schnorchel is in use...

Should I add some of the above comments to clarify and to better understand page 125?

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3867 on:** 13 Jul , 2018, 00:42 »

Don.
You are right in stating the major air restriction is in the float air intakevalve and the schnorchelmast, however the new system improvement was connecting the smaller schnorchel air pipe to the diesel air trunk close to the diesel air main intake valve thus eliminating the long narrow schnorchel airpipe all the way to the main inlet valve in the engineroom. The sketch might be a bit misleading with regard to the new system as it does not show very clearly the airpipe from the schnorchel mast is entering the large dieselair trunk close to the dieselair main inletvalve thereby utilizing the dieselair trunk also for possible waterintrusion. I am enclosing a revised image below. When schnorcheling you had, as you state, a limiting factor as to the speed and load of the engine. Speed because of the strength of the mast, dieselload (generator load) because of the airconsumption. The control was monitored by the barometic pressure in the compartments, the pressure fluctuation you could feel in your airdrums.

Don Prince · « **Reply #3868 on:** 13 Jul , 2018, 01:20 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

As stated by U-480's captain, they had to use many CO2 canisters while schnorchelling (I guess they were under water more than on the surface). In that situation, I would assume they had to run both ventilation blowers. Did you experience the large use of CO2 canisters while onboard of U-995?

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3869 on:** 13 Jul , 2018, 02:00 »

Don
We did not use any CO2 cannisters while schnorcheling, in fact generally the air quality improved as the diesels consumed the very quickly the fouled air. The problem were more individually some could not take the pressure fluctations, a few even experienced a bursted eardrum. Another experience was people with bad toothfillings experienced overpressure under the fillings creating some pain.
Tore

Don Prince · « **Reply #3870 on:** 13 Jul , 2018, 21:36 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

I uploaded Skizzenbuch with corrected pages 125, 126, 127, 128, 426, and 427 into Dropbox... Again let me know if it is OK?

Regards,
Don

tore · « **Reply #3871 on:** 14 Jul , 2018, 00:22 »

Don
I`ll look into it soonest, but for the week end I take my wife to the coast to relax after a hectic week for an old man. Hopefully back on monday.

Don Prince · « **Reply #3872 on:** 14 Jul , 2018, 00:44 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

Of course, you and your wife enjoy the beach and the weekend... How is her broken hand? Is it in a hard cast or a bandaged wrapping?

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3873 on:** 14 Jul , 2018, 01:17 »

Unfortunately they had to remove the hard cast as the parts were not matching correctly, redid the whole thing without cast and she got a lot of painkilling medicines and as usual a lot of side effects. But we are doing fine and shall be back next week.
Tore

tore · « **Reply #3874 on:** 16 Jul , 2018, 01:40 »

Don Skizzenbuch Page 125.

I guess you should use my latest sketch, showing the diesel air duct coloured ligth blue all the way from the schnorchel air connection up to the engineroom main diesel air valve. From the latter valve the diesel air duct splits in two, ending in two large rectangular outlet between both engines and the pressure hull. When schnorchelling and in rough wheather surfaced, the seawater gushed down to the bilge far away from the air intake of the engines. When the main group exhaust hull valve has a massive leakage which often occurred (in spite of the pneumatic grinding) there is a leakage chamber in the housing which can be drained to the bilge to prevent filling the exhaust manifold alongside the engine. Eventually the exhaust manifold alongside the engine has a possibility for a drain fore and aft to the bilge. These are not shown on plate 13 and can be easily be confused with the many coolingwater drain in the system.

Tore

tore · « **Reply #3875 on:** 16 Jul , 2018, 04:30 »

Don Skizzenbuch page 127- 128.

I guess there is a misprint in the firing sequence of a 6 cylinder diesel which is cyl no 1-5-3-6-2-4.
The indicatorcocks are shown on the lower right image (not left).

Exhaust temperatures. You mention the coolingwater regulator is adjusted manually to keep the exhaust temperatures below a set level. I don`t think the exhaust temperatures are controlled in this way, but the materials of the components. Exhaust temperatures are controlled by the timing, combustion (load)and used for monitoring the condition of the fuelinjection system, exhaustvalve seating etc.

tore · « **Reply #3876 on:** 16 Jul , 2018, 05:19 »

Don Skizzenbuch page 427
I guess in the general description of the Michells thrustpads you should mention the shaft thrustdisc pushes on the forward thrustpads when the shaft rotates in ahead direction.

I think the main reason for a submarines tailclutch is to disengage the propeller while charging the batteries along side, you don`t disengage the propeller for starting the dieselengines, unless you are alongside, think about all the old reversible diesels.
Tore

Don Prince · « **Reply #3877 on:** 16 Jul , 2018, 16:17 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

If the main clutch is engaged and you are starting the Diesel engine, then you are adding the additional resistance of the prop/seawater which would be driving the U-Boat during startup. Is this not an extreme amount of load during startup? I don't doubt your answer, but I just want to verify the startup procedure...

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3878 on:** 17 Jul , 2018, 00:52 »

Don.
Most of the marine diesels in world are starting with a fixed blade propeller directly attached to the engine. Having a tailclutch is an exception rather than a rule. A direct reversible diesel as installed on the older VIICs had a manoeuvre sequence as follows: Starting with propeller engaged driving vessel ahead, manoeuvre astern, stopping the dieselengine, reversing the engine by axially shifting camshaft, starting the engine running astern, all manoeuvres carried out with the propeller engaged. This is standard manoeuvre for most of the marine diesels with fixed blade propellers, nothing special.
Starting the diesel engine with the propeller engaged and submarine moored alongside might have a consequence, like one of my first battery charging alongside. We were alongside in a remote harbour way up north of Norway, we were moored at a wooden quay right in front of a shrimp peeling factory, built on wooden poles. I was on the bridge asking the engineer in charge if everything was ready for charging, got confirmation OK and ordered start the engine. Good old Kaura ex U995 made a jump ahead broke the moorings and ended up underneath the shrimpfactory while all the ladies working there ran screaming out of the shaken factory. The engineer in charge had forgotten the tailclutch.

tore · « **Reply #3879 on:** 17 Jul , 2018, 01:14 »

Don
In addition to the above it was very convenient for the engineroom crew to have a tailclutch f.i. when having an engine repair and we wanted to have a testrun. With a propeller engaged you had to ask the officer on watch to double up the moorings prior to the test, with a tailclutch we were our "own masters" and could just disengage the propeller.

Don Prince · « **Reply #3880 on:** 17 Jul , 2018, 03:27 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

Thank you for the information on the startup sequence, and I was very amused about the shrimp factory story. Things like that do happen in real life!

Regards,
Don_

VIC20 · « **Reply #3881 on:** 17 Jul , 2018, 05:06 »

Hi Tore, do you know when they gave up the direct reversible diesel engines? (which boats were the last ones?)

tore · « **Reply #3882 on:** 17 Jul , 2018, 09:18 »

Hi!

It`s a good question of which I have no concise reply. On the VIIC 41 like U-995 they did away with quite a lot of weigths as the greater diving depth caused a lot of weight increase hence they removed some equipment including the reversing mechanism, but ordinary VIICs in our fleet had non reversible engines as well as KNM Kaura ex U 995. So we can`t assume this is the reason when looking for the boats with reversible diesels. If somebody should feel for making a research a very visible sign that the engine is a direct reversible type is the reversing cylinder up front of the engine as can be seen on my image below may we could trace the boats based on engine photos.
Tore

tore · « **Reply #3883 on:** 17 Jul , 2018, 09:43 »

Further to my answer above I realize my image was not very clear so here is a photo of the real thing.

VIC20 · « **Reply #3884 on:** 17 Jul , 2018, 13:16 »

I guess pictures of the diesel engines of the different boats are rare and hard to find.

Don Prince · « **Reply #3885 on:** 17 Jul , 2018, 16:57 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

I was wondering (I know that could be dangerous) about conserving fuel... Running on 1 diesel engine and free tailing the opposite propeller looks to be the most economic way, but the rudder would be needed to maintain the course. Then again, they could be driving with 1 Diesel engine and using its e-motor as a generator to power the opposite e-motor to drive its propeller drive shaft; possible the rudder may be in use as well... Since the driving Diesel engine is getting resistance from its e-motor acting as a generator; does this mode cause more fuel use?

I believe both options are viable... Do you remember using one or both options, and which is the most economic?

Regards,
Don_

Don Prince · « **Reply #3886 on:** 17 Jul , 2018, 17:03 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

I updated pages 426, 427, 428, and added the index back to Skizzenbuch. The latest version of Skizzenbuch is in the Dropbox folder...

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3887 on:** 18 Jul , 2018, 00:41 »

Don fuelconserving.

You are entering into a very complex area in the operation of the submarine diesels, introducing many unknown elements as the submarines variation in water resistance related to the speed, propeller efficency in relation to revs., dieselengine variation of specific fuelconsumption related to the bmep ( brake mean effective pressures) etc. We did not have access to all these figures so we did not have any instructions as to the variation in the operation modes.
The specific fuelconsumption is usually measured at the testbed using a waterbrake, following the theoretical propellerlaw, the result is not always matching the real thing onboard, certainly not on a submarine having so many variables. In your proposal you introduce a load which increases the BMEP outside the propellerlaw graph (waterbrake). I have no figures, but should imagine your theoretical suggestion could be viable, but you have to watch your engine (exhaust temperatures) carefully not to overload the engine (excessive BMEP). I don`t think you should include this topics in the Skizzenbuch, its a topic for the real theoretical experts.
Tore

tore · « **Reply #3888 on:** 18 Jul , 2018, 01:33 »

Don Skizzenbuch page 426, 427, 428.

Checked OK. May be you should use ahead pads and astern pads for the Michelle thrustbearing instead of forward pads and aft pads.
Tore

Don Prince · « **Reply #3889 on:** 18 Jul , 2018, 09:58 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

I took your advise and changed the thrust pads to ahead and astern... I was not going to add the info discussed about fuel economy running. I was just curious...

Also, I updated Skizzenbuch to reflect the changes in Dropbox...

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3890 on:** 18 Jul , 2018, 10:21 »

Don, very good. As to the very complex picture of fuel economy and the many way of operating dieselengines-generator/E-motor I guess it would have been an interesting thing for an IT man to make an optimal programme for the various running modes with the numerous variables.
Tore

bianco64squalo · « **Reply #3891 on:** 18 Jul , 2018, 23:45 »

Hi Don and Tore,
I was wondering when you expect to finish the work on Skizzenbuch.
You know that there are several U-Boat enthusiast waiting for the availabilty of your work, obviously paying for it...
The problem has already been addressed, and one possible solution is to make a file available and printable on demand, upon payment.
What do you think about ?
An answer would be welcome.
Respect.
Fillippo from Padova

Don Prince · « **Reply #3892 on:** 19 Jul , 2018, 00:44 »

Hello Fillippo,

As far as I'm concerned, "Skizzenbuch: U-Boat Type VII C Project" is complete. I do not plan on adding anything to the 516 page document. Possibly some grammar corrections and having the two (2) pages allocated as a foreword done by a friend.

A book publisher Casemate Publishers UK is looking at Skizzenbuch as a possible e-book in a PDF Format. They have downloaded my full PDF file "Skizzenbuch 11 x 17 - M + I.pdf and will let me know their decision in about 2 - 3 weeks.

However, if they decide not to publish the PDF, then I will absorb the expense by getting a US copyright ($55.00 for multiple authors) and create a US State of Georgia Publishing Company LLC ($150.00) sometime in November or December of this year. Then in January, I will purchase CopySafe Software ($295.00) to protect the distributed free PDF file.

Free distribution may be done through several websites to be determined...

Regards,
Don_

Raymic1 · « **Reply #3893 on:** 19 Jul , 2018, 19:59 »

Fantastic Don.
I hope this all goes well.
Look forward to getting it in some way soon.

Ps I hope Casement don't put it out with a massive premium. As a unique specialist tech doco I'm assuming in hard book form it would be quite expensive. I wonder if the PDF from them will be the same.?
Cheers

Don Prince · « **Reply #3894 on:** 29 Jul , 2018, 23:58 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

U-96 had an early bridge/tower design that had air stacks on the inside of the bridge, and intake stack windows/panels on the outside of the bridge. These stacks are for the diesel air supply. However, there is the diesel air stack under the winter garden in back of the tower with a mushroom type top valve. I don't believe there was a connection between the two? Was this just a means to get air below the winter garden? It looks like later bridge/tower designs eliminated the two bridge stacks...

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3895 on:** 30 Jul , 2018, 06:36 »

Don.
I don`t think there is a connection, the dieselair main input is the main disk valve on top of the diesel air duct inside the tower casing and the towercasing inlet ducts are merely to ensure sufficient air access to the void space inside the casing. Likewise the external ventilation ducts have the main inlet (and, in the older version, outlet) inside the towercasing. There are some variations in the arrangement particularly after the introduction of the schnorchel system. In spite of the well protected inlet of the dieselairduct a substatial amount of water entered the engine room bilge in rough weather, this is one of the reason the external ventilation duct is separately from the large dieselair duct as you want to avoid water intrusion to the electric fans. The ventilation inletvalve casing had a special drainage system to the controlroom bilge as well.
Tore

tore · « **Reply #3896 on:** 30 Jul , 2018, 06:47 »

Don
The reason for the complicated arrangement of having separate ducts for the various air inlets is if you would have the inlet for the diesels via f.i. the bridgehatch the large diesels would created an excessive "draught" through the bridge hatch making difficult to use as an access hatch.
Tore

Raymic1 · « **Reply #3897 on:** 20 Aug , 2018, 20:49 »

Hello Mr Tore
You may be interested in a recent discussion with possibly an old shipmate Mr Ludvig Haga a Torpedoman on Kaura.
Sorry the link below printed very small..

https://www.facebook.com/groups/U.Bits/permalink/2151611101831613/

tore · « **Reply #3898 on:** 21 Aug , 2018, 01:45 »

Very interesting, I checked my papers but regret I can not find a torpedoman with the name Ludvig Haga, neither can I remember any person with this name onboard in my time. KNM Kaura came into service as a frontline boat late 1952 and was taken out of that service latter part of 1954, practically the whole time I was onboard. After a refit 1955/56 she became a training vessel and of course a lot of people not known to me sailed with her in that periode. It would have been very interesting to see his discussion but the link you gave me leads to,I assume a russian, named Boris Nakropin, being administrator of a group Everything for Uboat scaling modelling. May be I am doing the wrong thing here, as my IT knowledge is not the best in the world going on 90.

Tore

tore · « **Reply #3899 on:** 21 Aug , 2018, 01:47 »

Sorry my image was too big, here`s a smaller version.
Tore

Raymic1 · « **Reply #3900 on:** 21 Aug , 2018, 03:08 »

Ah yes sorry Tore.
I am a member of Ubits Facebook site admin is Boris. He also makes a lot of Metal etch Uboat modelling bits.
Also I guess that link would not work for non member as you are.
Ill see if I can copy and paste his brief comments.

Raymic1 · « **Reply #3901 on:** 21 Aug , 2018, 03:18 »

https://www.facebook.com/ludvig.haga

Mr Tores. Above is his Facebook profile and it was not much of a conversation. But he said he was onboard 59-60 so he may have missed you.

tore · « **Reply #3902 on:** 27 Sep , 2018, 03:09 »

Weathering VIIC

As many of you have noticed I am not in favour of the overdone weathering on some models. In my time (peace) there was hardly visible rust and damage to the hull which was not repaired as soon as we entered harbour. Major damage to the casing happens to me only once on U 995 where we in the North Sea got some 4- 5 meters on the starboard casing smashed in by the November gale. Below are a few images which might enlighten you on the subject. First of all the most visible part for weathering is the casing and (U 995 wooden)deck. A vital detail is that the deck should be dark grey and one of the instruction from the German High command was always to patch up any damage by the dark grey paint. The reason is obvious, air surveillance.

The casing is made by galvanized thin metal plating riveted by small rivets using alongship joggle joints as can be seen on my image from an inspection of U-995 I made in 1953. The joggle joint is clearly visible but hardly the rivets, corrosion is minimal.

I enclose my latest paintinting of KNM Kaura ex. U- 995 where I have indicating the normal weathering after approximately 8 months service under rough condition above the artic circle in the Barentz sea.

karel · « **Reply #3903 on:** 11 Oct , 2018, 06:57 »

Hello everyone! Hope you have all been doing fine.

I have a question about operating the uboat. I know that the ballast tanks should be either empty or full. Keeping them partially flooded was not intended.
https://uboat.net/forums/read.php?20,91306,91308#msg-91308

This brought me to the question. If there were no gauges that showed the water level of ballast tanks then how did uboat crew member knew when to stop applying compressed air to a ballast tank?
Blowing all the water 100% out of the tanks would be also dangerous since you would produce bubbles? Also the danger of wasting compressed air when blowing an empty tank. How did the ballast tank operator know when to stop blowing?
Did this happen by pure experience or were there any sound cues?

tore · « **Reply #3904 on:** 11 Oct , 2018, 08:03 »

Karel.

Blowing the ballasttanks is done under different circumstances and you are using instruments and experience. F.inst if you want to ascend by ballasttanks from larger depths say 50 meters you use more precious HP air as the counter pressure would be 5 kg/cm2. It takes an experienced controlroom engineer to admit the right amount of air into the ballast tanks which are never blown empty at this depth, the controlroom engineer uses the blowing pressure, the counterpressure ( depth), the time and experience admitting the right amount of air. The aim is just to blow so much air into the the tanks so the submarine start to ascend, then shut the blowingvalve and the air in the ballast tanks expands, forcing out the ballastwater. As the counterpressure reduces it increases the acceleration of the ascend. If you blow too much air into the ballasttanks the tanks are empty before your uncontrolled ascend which is waste of energi, a lot of bubbles and dangerous as the sub break the surface without control. The correct ascend is: you take the sub up to 14 meter by hydroplanes, make a surface sweep with the periscope and then blow your ballasttanks controlled by checking the depth gauge, stop blowing before completely surfaced, then start the diesels and blow the residue air by the diesel exhaust. The exhaustblowing is done in a special sequence starting with the saddle tanks having the smallest resistance being almost at the surface. You are able to check the counterpressure (exhaust) manometer when the tank is empty but normally you checked when the exhaust escapes out of the Kingstons.
Tore

karel · « **Reply #3905 on:** 11 Oct , 2018, 08:37 »

Thank you. Makes sense and it also means i have to cheat for my game project a little since this kind of experience is hard to come to a gamer. Need to think how i can communicate this proccess to a player. I attached a picture of gauges. These are modelled after photos but i have not yet found a proper source that would identify their purpose. Are you able to tell me what info these gauges presented?

tore · « **Reply #3906 on:** 11 Oct , 2018, 09:23 »

Your image of gauges does not make sense to me, but I assume it is a simplified HP blowing panel for the ballasttanks. I am afraid the real thing is a bit more complicated, but the original design idea is that you have a centralised Xmas tree with a main blowingvalve handle by which you can control all the mainballasttanks. Each main ballasttank has it own valve locally at the pressurehull which really don`t is used in the normal operation, hence it is left open. At the Xmastree you have separate blowingvalves for each main ballasttanks and other distribution valves which I have indicated on my image below, It might look complicated, but it makes a very flexible blowing system which takes time to study.
Tore

karel · « **Reply #3907 on:** 11 Oct , 2018, 14:07 »

Tore.

Highly appreceate you taking the time. I studied your picture for couple of hours with additional material that i have gathered over the internet. Gauges on my image are indeed from blowing panel but i understand that i am missing many of them. Looking closely at other pictures i can see additional gauges between some valves. I decided to dive deep into the subject and try to understand as much as possible. This will give me best option to decide how to represent similar level of control in the game. I am not aiming for super 1:1 realistic but i do want the game system to feel authentic and somewhat believable.

I should start from the basics. Do i understand this correctly that air compressor was used to fill HP banks 1-5 with air? These banks were connected to HP air distributor. From there the air was distributed between ballast tank blowing distributor and LP air distributor. Hope it is ok if i keep my questions short and go forward from there step by step. As every answer gets me a step closer to understanding this complex system and will help me form my sequential questions better.

tore · « **Reply #3908 on:** 11 Oct , 2018, 14:32 »

Karel.
Below is the VIICs HP air system with the total air vessels for HP air storage, inside and outside the pressurehull. The scheme is a bit old as you have two conventional compressors, the normal VIIC execution had the Junker free piston diesel compressor replacing the conventional electric compressor on the starboard side in the aft torpedo room. Sorry for the many arrows crisscrossing the image.
Tore

karel · « **Reply #3909 on:** 12 Oct , 2018, 02:10 »

Tore.

Can you tell me where it was possible to read the data on how much compressed air was left into HP banks? I cant seem to locate the placement for these gauges. If i had to guess then i would say they are near the HP air distributor where the lines were connected to the banks.

tore · « **Reply #3910 on:** 12 Oct , 2018, 02:54 »

Karel.
The hp air capacity was monitored by the pressures for each vessel to be read at the air distribution rack, never the volume. The volume could of course be calculated acc. to Boyle Mariottes law, but was never done. All the storage airvessels were never connected to the distribution rack at the same time, only a few for normal use. One of the problems for blowing exstensively is of course the expansion temperature which might lead to ice formation at the blowing valve being used extensively so you had a limiting factor as to using this valve.

tore · « **Reply #3911 on:** 12 Oct , 2018, 02:58 »

Karel.
The total capacity of the HP air banks is 3.900 liters at 205 kg/cm2

karel · « **Reply #3912 on:** 12 Oct , 2018, 09:31 »

Tore.

The HP and LP distributor both have a drain valve. I cannot find any good explanation about these. What are they for exactly? Draining water? From where?

tore · « **Reply #3913 on:** 12 Oct , 2018, 10:07 »

Karel.
When you are running a compressor you always collect water from the humidity in the air, particurlary on a submarine where the humidity is high. In view of the previously mentioned freezing at air expansion it is a good idea to keep the air ar dry as possible.
Tore

Don Prince · « **Reply #3914 on:** 12 Oct , 2018, 22:19 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

When using the Exhaust Manifold Blowing Valves in the control room would the proper blowing order be:
1. Blow MBT 1 and MBT 5 the highest tanks with less back pressure
2. Blow FBT 2 and FBT 4
3. Blow MBT 3 being the lowest tank with the greatest back pressure

Would there be a drop in the back pressure which would tell the crewman the tanks was blown, or could the crewman hear the gases escaping and know the tanks were blown?

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3915 on:** 13 Oct , 2018, 01:16 »

Don.
Your suggestion as to the exhaust blowing sequence seems to be correct. You are not able to hear the exhaust escaping through the Kingstons, quite often the people on the bridge reported when they observed the gas bubbles, but as everything else in the word, experience counts, an experienced engineer was able to tell when the tanks were fully blown by using his feelings. Normally you are not able to empty the ballasttanks 100%, you shall always have some residue ballast water left, however I never experienced any free surface effect from the ballast residue. I guess you guys making games for a conventional submarine with WW2 technique have your difficultes. The recorded WW2 parameters were scares and you had no computer to feed, old fashion experience, smell, temperatures and sound were important elements. I could be sleeping in my bunk when a change in the diesel sound woke me up and I was in the engine room before any messenger woke me up. Many things happened due to mishandling by unexperienced crew during the latter part of WW2 as the war had taken its toll and shortage of experience became a problem. If you look at the various intricate systems like the HP blowing system, engineers have developed same over the years and made modifications to be able to handle various situations. It took time and experience to handle all these options effectively which computers can do today, I guess it is possible to incorporate some of the elements by f.i transferring pressures into volumes in case of ballast blowing etc. to make the monitoring a bit more computer friendly but the real thing during WW2 was monitoring based on pressuregauges and time, the rest human senses and experience.
Tore

Don Prince · « **Reply #3916 on:** 13 Oct , 2018, 13:53 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

Thank you for the quick response to my question... It is good to see that you are again on the AMP website with your expertise. Have you fully recovered from your stroke with the physical therapy? Has your wife recovered from her broken hand from the auto accident? It seems like you all have had some bad luck this past year. Let's hope that this coming year will be non-eventful and much better.

I have not heard back from Casemate Publishing about Skizzenbuch. I'll give then a few more weeks and if nothing results, then I will form my LLC, Copyright Skizzenbuch, encrypt the files and distribute it for free.

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3917 on:** 13 Oct , 2018, 14:20 »

Don.
I am indeed recovering very well having an extremely beautiful female physical therapist holding a phd. on just my condition helping my recovery. Enjoying every minute of the treatment. May be a waste for an old fart like me going on 90. My wife has recovered pretty well thank you and we are planning our blue sapphire wedding, 65 years, end this month. I share your hope that next year shall be less eventful than this but hope your Skizzenbuch shall materialize.
Tore

VIC20 · « **Reply #3918 on:** 13 Oct , 2018, 14:49 »

Tore, I’m glad to hear your recovery is doing well (with eyecandy).

Don, why don’t you publish it on demand via amazon or other publish-on-demand services? It doesn’t cost you anything, the risk of piracy is gone because it will be printed and you will earn money for the years of hard work on Skizzenbuch. You deserve a compensation for the work. If there is any technical problem then I could try to help you.

tore · « **Reply #3919 on:** 13 Oct , 2018, 15:30 »

Rigth now National Geographic is showing a movie WW2 : "A hell under water" about the first documented torpedo attack by a submerged submarine on another submerged submarine. The incident happen February 1945 outside the fishing village Fedje on the western coast of Norway and they use the museum U-995 for the interior scenes, not very successful as the people (crew) are twisting wheels and handles meaningless and would in real life probably have put the U-995 to the sea bottom. The German Milk Cow U- 864 having a cargo of mercury for Japan had some engine trouble and was schnorkelling when the bristish submarine of the V class HMS Venturer heard her and later discovered the schnorchel mast of U- 864. HMS Venturer had only 4 torpedoer and the CO of Venturer set the 4th torpdeo a bit deeper than the other 3 anticipated U-864 would make a classic escape by going deeper when they heard the torpedoes. U 864 was hit and sunk at 150meters depth all hands lost. U 864 still causes us trouble today as she has a substantial amount of mercury in her keel laying and polluting the seabottom outside Fedje. HMS Venturer became Norwegian and renamed KNM Utsira a few months later. Below is KNM Kaura ex U-995 in the same area during a dummy attack . Although we had a fruitmachine we used the old style of attack, me calculating the parameters for setting the torpedo.
Tore

Don Prince · « **Reply #3920 on:** 13 Oct , 2018, 15:56 »

Hi VIC20,

I have not found an on demand publisher that will publish a book with the dimension of 12 inches x 9 inches with about 516 pages with a minimum of 3 fold-out sheets in the back of the book... Let's talk about this off line and my email address is donprince5207@comcast.net and perhaps I'm not talking with the right people...

Regards,
Don_

Don Prince · « **Reply #3921 on:** 14 Oct , 2018, 19:47 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

When starting the diesel engine on compressed air... The starting distributor is directing air to push down on the cylinder head to cause crankshaft rotation. When the correct RPM are attained by running on air, the fuel lever is set to run and injecting fuel which causes ignition. At this point, there may be several RPM happening before the starting air distributor is shut off by the diesel engine operator. Normally, the diesel engine has both intake and exhaust valves shut during the power stroke, or the valves are shut when compressed air is injected into the cylinder to simulate the power stroke.

My question is with both valves shut and when fuel is injected into the cylinder and we have ignition; does the ignited gases feed back into the air distributer and eventually back to the starting air canisters, or Is there a check valve on the starting air distributer to prevent this feedback from happening? Or is the ignition gases feedback simply not a problem?

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3922 on:** 15 Oct , 2018, 02:15 »

Don.
The starting system originally designed for a direct reversible engine is complicated as you have to start both in a ahead and astern configuration. If we begin with the starting valve in the cylinderhead,(I guess you called the piston for cylinder head in your question) it is a combination of mechanical and pneumatic operation. Below is an image of the valve which is operated by its own sartingcam on the camshaft. Normally the valve is shut by a spring lifting the pushrod free from the cam. First stage of starting is you open the starting air supply valve admitting starting air to the lower part of the valve. A branch off after the starting air supply valve supplies air to the starting manifold. First stage of starting is moving the starthandle one step, admitting air to the top of the starting valve, pushing the lever of the valve rod up thereby
engaging the valve rod roller with the starting cam at the camshaft, now the starting air is controlled by the camshaft. I guess you have to study the diagram below to understand it fully. Some parts of the diagram is for a direct reversible engine and a few details are not shown on the diagram.
Tore

karel · « **Reply #3923 on:** 15 Oct , 2018, 03:56 »

Gentlemen.

Just to let you know. The new Das Boot teasers were released an hour ago. You can find them here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZrL-JAmhVw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY1X6Z708aA

Don Prince · « **Reply #3924 on:** 15 Oct , 2018, 20:31 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

Does this writeup look OK? Note there is a time period where fuel is injected when the starting valves are operational. Again was there an issue with cylinder chamber back pressure gases into the compressed air canisters?

Regards,
Don_

Procedure For Starting The Diesel Engine With Compressed Air

1. Opening the starting air valve (RED Hand-wheel) and admitting starting air into the lower part of the starting air valve provides compressed air to the starting manifold and the starting valves. There are six (6) starting valves; one (1) per cylinder.

2. Moving the starting handle to the start position directs compressed air from the starting manifold to the top of all six (6) starting valves. This air pressure forces all six (6) guide links to pull upward and cause the cam arm rollers to engage the starting cams.

3. One of the six (6) cams will be at a low position and the guide link will move higher and force the starting valve to open and admit starting air into the cylinder chamber and force the piston in a downward direction. This piston movement starts the crankshaft rotation whereby other starting valves will continue this running on compressed air process.

4. After the required RPM is reached, move the left fuel handle from stop to a point beyond 0 the minimum (the maximum is 55) and then ignition occurs. Now, move the right starting handle to operate which results in the roller cam arms being lifted off the cams and the compressed air being vented at the starting manifold into the diesel room. Turn off the starting air via the RED hand-wheel on the starting air valve. At this point, the diesel engine will be run-up until the operating temperature is achieves and then put on-line at the commanded speed.

Shutdown – move the left fuel handle up from the amount of fuel to Stop.

In the photo of U-995’s right starting handle, it only has two (2) positions; run [at the top (Betrieb)] and start [at the bottom (Anlassen)], and the reason for this difference is because U-995 diesel engines do not have reversing. If it did have reversing, then there would be a reversing handle to the right of the starting handle as I have indicated in the modified photo. However, on U-995 if there was a need for reversing, then the e-motors will be used for that function. If there is a lack of compressed air to start the diesel engines, then they could use the e-motor to crank the diesel up to speed and then inject the fuel for ignition.

tore · « **Reply #3925 on:** 16 Oct , 2018, 03:06 »

Don.
Below is a revised scheme of the starting system may be it clarifies the system a bit better. As to your concern of the combustion gases entering the starting air vessel I dont think it is a problem as the starting air cams are timed to open the starting valve at an optimal piston position past the TDC during the compression expansion stroke when the cylinder pressure is lower than the starting air pressure (30kg/cm2). There is no fuel supply at this stage. However when you are moving the fuelhandle towards fuelsupply you are at the same time venting the upper part of the starting valve and the startingvalve pushrod is removed from the camshaft and the valve is shut by the spring. Some times you obtain a supercharging effect by the starting air. Furthermore as far as I remember the startingair supply valve is a NR valve. This starting system is very conventional and is even today operated in thousands of dieselengines.

On some simple semidiesels you actually fill the starting air vessel by the combustion gases allowing same to enter by the starting air pipe.
I once had an incident where due to a mechanical failure the starting valve stuck open. The result was overheating of the pipe, not very dramatic, only some brown coloured paintings.
Tore

Don Prince · « **Reply #3926 on:** 16 Oct , 2018, 13:35 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

This video shows a German Diesel engine and other components clutch and generator at the end of the video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLfa43_1WH8

It looks like at the beginning the one person is pumping lube oil through-out the engine before starting with compressed air. I believe they started the Diesel engine with the clutch engaged and connected with the generator.

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3927 on:** 16 Oct , 2018, 23:18 »

Don.
The starting procedure of a smaller MWM diesel seems to be a bit cumbersome, but in principle correct. On a VIIC GW engine you use the electric stand by lubeoil pump to put up the lubeoil pressure before turning, then you turn the engine by air with open indicator cocks, blow trough as we called it, before the starting procedure.

Tore

Don Prince · « **Reply #3928 on:** 27 Oct , 2018, 14:32 »

Hello Mr. Tore and all,

We have a real author among us... Dougie Martindale's book "Gunther Prien and U-47: The Bull of Scapa Flow; From the Sinking of the HMS Royal Oak to the Battle of the Atlantic" will be available on Amazon on November 1, 2018. The publisher is the Naval Institute Press and Amazon's listed price is $28.03, and you can pre-order the book. I have just ordered my copy...

Regards,
Don_

Don Prince · « **Reply #3929 on:** 29 Oct , 2018, 03:31 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

Question about exhaust blowing MBT 1 and MBT 5... Assuming the U-Boat is in a fuel oil configuration with FBT 2 and FBT 4, then we blow MBT 1 and MBT 5 with exhaust gases. Are they both blown at the same time, or do we blow one of them at a time (Which)? I think we would blow MBT 1 first because of an emergency dive situation... Just checking....

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3930 on:** 29 Oct , 2018, 04:13 »

Don.
The exhaust gases take the easiest way, eg. where you have the smallest resistance. Depending upon the trim of the submarine at the end of the blowing you make your choice as to which sequence you are blowing. If one of the MBT is empty before the other you shut the exhaust blowing to same while blowing the other, if not, the exhaustgas shall escpape via the flood gates of the MBT already empty and you would`t be able to drain the other MBT completely. The exhaustblowing is "surfaceblowing" and is the final touch of the surfacetrim. In fact you have the same effect blowing by air at larger depth. Hence you have to take in to consideration the trim of the sub while blowing , f.inst a bow up trim of 25 degrees means 2 kgcm2 smaller counterpressure in MBT 5 than MBT 1, hence if blowing with equal air pressure you shall drain the MBT 5 sooner than MBT 1 and if not compensated, upset the trim further.
Tore

tore · « **Reply #3931 on:** 29 Oct , 2018, 04:53 »

Don.
Furher to my answer above is an image showing at a bow down angle of 25 degrees you have approximately 20 kg/cm2 higher counterpressure at MBT5 than MBT1.

Don Prince · « **Reply #3932 on:** 29 Oct , 2018, 17:20 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

The reason for my question - let's say the U-Boat has just surfaced with the ballast tanks partially blown with compressed air and is in the RFO configuration:
1. Now we completely blow MBT 1 with exhaust.

An enemy aircraft is spotted and the U-Boat must dive at once:
2. We vent MBT 3 and MBT 5 (just like a normal diving process)
3. Once the U-Boat's bow and bridge spray deflector are at the surface level
4. Then they vent MBT 1

Now the U-Boat can escape the enemy aircraft with the emergency procedure. However, if MBT 1 was partially flooded when the enemy aircraft were spotted:
5. Would the partially flooded MBT 1 cause any delay when attempting to reach the proper diving angle?

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3933 on:** 30 Oct , 2018, 01:17 »

Don.
If you are surfacing in hostile waters with enemy air superiority you have to be prepared for a crashdive any time. I guess there are two different theories here, the RN WW2 procedure would be to use the empty Q tanks at the crashdive, whereas the germans probably would surface with the Untertriebcelle (Q) filled. I don`t think the partially filled MBT 1 would delay the diving in case you are considering using dynamic force (propellers) as long as the propellers are properly submersed. Again the exhaustblowing is the final touch of the surfacing and is carried out to maintain the proper surface trim for cruising on the surface.
Tore

Don Prince · « **Reply #3934 on:** 15 Nov , 2018, 00:13 »

Hello Mr. Tore and All,

I just applied for the LLC with a Registering Agent for the State of Georgia (total cost $189.00) and that will take about 15 days before "Kristallklar Publishing, LLC" will become an official publishing company. After that project is completed, I will apply for a US Copyright ($55.00) for "Skizzenbuch: U-Boat Type VII C Project", I'm not sure as to how long the US Copyright process will take. Then I plan on initially permitting a free download of the PDF file on this AMP website (If that is acceptable) and the Subcommittee website for their members only. Perhaps other websites later - I'm not sure at this time.

I have copy protected the PDF file with a unique password run through a four (4) rotor German Naval Enigma Machine Simulator generating the encryption for the file permissions, but as most internet users are aware; any PDF security can be hacked. However, one must consider that Skizzenbuch will have US Copyright protection as any published book and is entitled to the same copyright enforcement. I'm not worried about someone giving a copy of the Skizzenbuch PDF to a friend. However, the only protection that I am looking for is that nothing is modified without mine and my contributor's permission/control.

I will keep all informed about my progress with the Skizzenbuch distribution...

Regards,
Don_

Note: In addition, there will be a folder named "Wallet" (not copy protected) which contains eight large drawings that are referenced in Skizzenbuch.

tore · « **Reply #3935 on:** 15 Nov , 2018, 02:27 »

Don.
Wonderful news, I must admit I am not very conversant as to the copyright business and cannot comment same, but am sure you take the proper steps to protect the Skizzenbuch. it contains a lot of work and it is too bad you shall have extra costs in addition to all the sweat and toil. I am looking forward to the final product and wish you all the best. The Skizzenbuch would be better than any manuals we had available when taking over the U- 995. Good luck!
Tore

dougie47 · « **Reply #3936 on:** 16 Nov , 2018, 11:47 »

Hi Don,

Thanks for the update on your Skizzenbuch. Just let us know how can we can be of assistance and we'll help.

Cheers,

Dougie

Don Prince · « **Reply #3937 on:** 04 Dec , 2018, 00:59 »

Hello Mr. Tore and All,

I just got my "Kristallklar Publishing, LLC" from the State of Georgia, and I have applied for a US Copyright for "Skizzenbuch: U-Boat Type VII C Project"... After the copyright is processed and I get an ISBN number I will update the Publisher page and place a downloadable PDF file on the AMP website and on the Subcommittee website for distribution.

Well over a year ago. I started compiling information and data on the U-Boat Type IX C and the C40. I guess that will be my next project. I have gotten early-on information about the proper arrangement of a book from Dougie Martindale, so that will be one of the guiding factors in the next Skizzenbuch.

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3938 on:** 04 Dec , 2018, 01:45 »

Don.
You are an inveterate enthusiast starting a new giant project after your Skizzenbuch. I wish you all the luck with your new project.
Tore

Don Prince · « **Reply #3939 on:** 04 Dec , 2018, 08:44 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

I will most likely be asking you to review the type IX mechanical schematics and my analysis of how things work. It's always good to have a 2nd opinion! Simon is going to visit U-505 at the Chicago Museum of Science and industry, Technical Museum U-995 at Laboe, the U-Boot-Museum in Cuxhaven, and the Technical Museum U-Boat Wilhelm Bauer (U-2540) this winter along with Mark Hessburg. I wish I could have tagged along, but the Sunroom and the LLC/Copyright just drained all of my of funds for next year...

I hope Simon has much better luck going to Chicago than we had in 2009 and also when touring U-505 at the museum. When Maureen and I visited U-505 they would not allow any interior photos to be taken on the interior guided tour; the tour moved too quick and the lighting was very dim so you could not see much to begin with (It really sucked). I could only get exterior photos of U-505... That was a waist of money and a three and trip to Chicago got messed-up by a 1 day weather delay at the very beginning - hung at the Atlanta Hartsfield Jackson International Airport over night - then hotel reservation at the Chicago Hyatt wouldn't allow us to stay for the 3rd day - so we had to find another hotel for the scheduled 3 day trip. To add insult to injury, all Delta flights were full on the last day because our reservation was for the previous day, so we had to find another airlines (American) to get back home.

I HATE AIRLINES because when things go very wrong their passengers/customers are on your own and they assume no responsibility (Everything is an act of God), and you have to fight to get your money back from the cancelled/missed flight!

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3940 on:** 04 Dec , 2018, 10:08 »

Don.
I have briefly looked at the IXC which is, apart from a few exceptions, based on the same technique as the VIIC s and I shall be happy to participate in the coming IXC discussions for your next Skizzenbuch. To be quite frank, I planned a few years back to visit the old U 995 with my grandchildren, but as I saw the images of my old lady I lost the interest as too much was changed since my time, she has definitely become a museum piece.
I was for a few years in charge as manufacturer inspector of the engines of the two passenger ferries m/s Kronprins Harald and m/s Prinsesse Ragnhild operating on the Kiel - Oslo service and passed Laboe and U 995 many times. I was always up at the bridge looking at her sitting high and dry on her concrete cradle, for some reason I still wasn`t tempted to visit her.
Tore

Don Prince · « **Reply #3941 on:** 16 Dec , 2018, 01:37 »

Hello Mr. Tore and All,

I applied for the copyright for "Skizzenbuch: U-Boat Type VII C Project" to the US Library of Congress on December 4, 2018, and this process takes about three (3) month for completion. Then I will make the final update to Skizzenbuch and then it will be available to U-Boat enthusiasts. This has been a long and tedious process for me, but I can see where things are coming together.

Regards,
Don_

FYI....
Copyright Author Credits:
Donald M. Prince - Managing Editor/Contributor
Tore Berg-Nielsen - Contributor
Maciek Florek (Deceased) - Contributor
Simon J. Morris - Contributor
Mark Hessburg - Contributor

tore · « **Reply #3942 on:** 16 Dec , 2018, 03:25 »

Don
Great news, looking forward to seeing the "Skizzenbuch" early spring next year.
Tore

Don Prince · « **Reply #3943 on:** 25 Dec , 2018, 01:25 »

Hello Mr. Tore and All...
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3944 on:** 25 Dec , 2018, 06:46 »

Don and all others

tore · « **Reply #3945 on:** 01 Jan , 2019, 09:14 »

Happy New Year!

Don Prince · « **Reply #3946 on:** 05 Jan , 2019, 11:42 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

Nice touch with the added Orca - Killer Whales to the painting.... Here's hoping we all have a good 2019 New Year!

Regards,
Don_

Don Prince · « **Reply #3947 on:** 09 Jan , 2019, 02:59 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

I was talking with my wife Maureen... She uses WhatsApp to chat and talk with her friends and relatives in Asia and there is no cost for the phone service. Maureen has an iPhone 10 with a facing camera and she and some of her relatives have video calls. Do you have a smart phone with WhatsApp? It would be interesting...

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3948 on:** 09 Jan , 2019, 04:42 »

Sorry Don I dont think my smartphone works as an iPhone I shall consult my grandchildren and revert if I have a possibility.
Tore

Don Prince · « **Reply #3949 on:** 09 Jan , 2019, 19:05 »

If you have a smartphone, then all you need to do is have your grandchildren to download WhatsApp and install it...
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3950 on:** 09 Jan , 2019, 23:08 »

Don. I have invited my grandchildren for dinner coming Sunday in February.
Tore

42rocker · « **Reply #3951 on:** 10 Jan , 2019, 07:11 »

Looking forward to seeing the pdf happen. May things continue to go well with it. Thanks to Everyone.

Later Tim

Don Prince · « **Reply #3952 on:** 10 Jan , 2019, 19:42 »

I should get the US Library of Congress copyright in February or Early March. Then It will take a few minutes to update Skizzenbuch and make it available.

Regards,
Don_

bianco64squalo · « **Reply #3953 on:** 10 Jan , 2019, 23:12 »

I can not wait....
Thanks in advance for the great gift you will make to the membres of this forum and to all U-Boats enthusiasts all over the world...
Regards.
Filippo

bianco64squalo · « **Reply #3954 on:** 28 Jan , 2019, 23:31 »

Hi Don,
nerws about Skizzenbuck copyright ?

Don Prince · « **Reply #3955 on:** 29 Jan , 2019, 01:02 »

Hi Filippo,

I applied for the Copyright on December 4, 2018 and their website states that an electronic application takes about 3 months. So perhaps in early March; if the US Government shutdown doesn't add some additional time delay???

Regards,
Don_

bianco64squalo · « **Reply #3956 on:** 28 Feb , 2019, 23:56 »

Hi Don,[/size]news about Skizzenbuck copyright ?[/color]

Don Prince · « **Reply #3957 on:** 01 Mar , 2019, 02:29 »

Hello Filippo,

You have been very persistent and patient, but I can not rush the US Federal Copyright Service to get things done faster... If you will send me an email "donprince5207@comcast.net" stating that you will not distribute the non-copyright version of Skizzenbuch, then I will send you a link to my dropbox website Skizzenbuch folder and you may download the "Skizzenbuch 11 x 17 - M + I.PDF" file and the accompanying "Wallet" folder containing nine (9) large drawings. Once the Copyright version is available, then you must delete the non-copyright version because I may still be making any needed corrections.

PS: Let me know what you think of our four (4) year collaborative Skizzenbuch: U-Boat Type VII C Project...

Regards,
Don_

Anakin · « **Reply #3958 on:** 01 Mar , 2019, 15:11 »

Credits for all of you guys for making this possible. I will be waiting it to be released for purchasing.

regards,Antti

Don Prince · « **Reply #3959 on:** 01 Mar , 2019, 19:32 »

"Skizzenbuch: U-Boat Type VII C Project" is a semi-technical and highly graphical 516 page PDF book in an 11 x 17 inch format accompanied by a Wallet folder with 10 large drawings. At this time, my intentions are to make it available/downloadable on several U-Boat websites for free...

Regards,
Don_

Raymic1 · « **Reply #3960 on:** 03 Mar , 2019, 05:01 »

Thanks Don, Tore et all.
We are very much looking forward to its release.
Cheers

42rocker · « **Reply #3961 on:** 03 Mar , 2019, 06:44 »

Wow, how nice. Thanks Don. And all who helped.

Later Tim

bianco64squalo · « **Reply #3962 on:** 03 Mar , 2019, 23:44 »

Thanks Don,
I think that Skizzenbuch will be a fantastic gift for all U-Boat modelers and in general for all U-Boat enthusiasts....
Respect

Don Prince · « **Reply #3963 on:** 04 Mar , 2019, 18:14 »

Hello Mr. Tore and All,

I have uploaded a new version of Skizzenbuch 11 x 17 - M + Ie.PDF... I have made a few changes to pages 456 through 461 to make the active and passive detection systems less confusing (I hope)! I sure do miss Maciek's help on this subject...

I should not have a problem with the copyright because they state minor changes/corrections may be made to the released document/book.

Regards,
Don_

NZSnowman · « **Reply #3964 on:** 20 Mar , 2019, 17:59 »

Hi Tore

While on U-995, I was able to find the original Lubricating Oil cooling under the flooring. In fact, it look like most of the original piping is still under the new floor

tore · « **Reply #3965 on:** 21 Mar , 2019, 02:22 »

Hi Simon.
Nice images and I guess the cooler is not far from your final drawing. The gatevalve shown on the lower image is possibly one of the three gatevalves in the coolingwatercrossover pipe. Wish I could have join you on the visit.
Tore

Don Prince · « **Reply #3966 on:** 21 Mar , 2019, 20:15 »

Hi Simon,

Great photos... Would you agree with my labeling on the photos?

Regards,
Don_

NZSnowman · « **Reply #3967 on:** 21 Mar , 2019, 21:21 »

NZSnowman · « **Reply #3968 on:** 21 Mar , 2019, 21:24 »

2nd photo
pipe in foreground is P14/16
I believe the pipe is P14/11, and not the Lubricating Oil filter.

NZSnowman · « **Reply #3969 on:** 21 Mar , 2019, 21:37 »

The two control arms are P14/20

Don Prince · « **Reply #3970 on:** 21 Mar , 2019, 22:53 »

Hi Simon,

Circled in yellow - lube oil knife type filter?

Don_

NZSnowman · « **Reply #3971 on:** 22 Mar , 2019, 01:28 »

Quote from: Don Prince on 21 Mar , 2019, 22:53

Hi Simon,

Circled in yellow - lube oil knife type filter?

Don_

It does look like a lube oil knife type filter. But it seen that one pipe is going forward and the other is going aft

We need to check with Tore.

tore · « **Reply #3972 on:** 22 Mar , 2019, 07:43 »

Don
I guess the assumed knifefilter is one of three gatevalves in the crossover coolingwaterpipe. The crossoverpipe has alltogether 5 gatevalves of which the three amidship have wheelstem extension to the floorplates. The lubeoil filters are situated closer to the engines and as you know were fitted on the later VIICs only, as a substitute for the lubeoil sentrifuges which were removed due to space and weight requirement. Below two images showing the coolingwatersystem and the construction of the gatevalve. On the plate 13 you`ll see the icons of a "Schieber", german for gatevalve in the coolingwater crossoverpipe.
Tore

Don Prince · « **Reply #3973 on:** 22 Mar , 2019, 22:18 »

Hello Mr. Tore,

Thanks for clarifying about the cooling water gate valves posted earlier... Simon got some great photos below the deck of U-995. I wonder how he did it! Mark also got some excellent interior and exterior photos and answered some questions I had about the remaining RADAR equipment...

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3974 on:** 07 Apr , 2019, 03:18 »

Don and others interested.

A few years back Maciek introduced me to an US author Larry Simpson who was looking for a technical consultant on German Uboats like VIICs and IXCs. I volunteered on a non paid basis, but after Maciek passed away I became the only technical consultant to the writer. Larry Simpson wrote a fiction book of a German WW2 submarine deploying a weather station in Alaska. We decided to choose a IXC /40type and used the U 807, a boat having keel laid down in 1943 but never commissioned. We worked on the book for about two years and in these days it is published on Amazon. The title is Cold Refuge by Larry Simpson. Larry let the Chief engineer explain the technical details related to the uboat and as he was`t fully conversant with the law of Archimedes he, with my consent, introduced me as the chief of the U 807 explaining the details. If you have a Kindle you might get a copy at Amazon for a very reasonable price. I guess the book is interesting as the story of the Uboat weather stations are not widely known.
Tore

VIC20 · « **Reply #3975 on:** 07 Apr , 2019, 04:22 »

Quote

Don and others interested.[/size]A few years back Maciek introduced me to an US author Larry Simpson who was looking for a technical consultant on German Uboats like VIICs and IXCs. I volunteered on a non paid basis, but after Maciek passed away I became the only technical consultant to the writer. Larry Simpson wrote a fiction book of a German WW2 submarine deploying a weather station in Alaska. We decided to choose a IXC /40type and used the U 807, a boat having keel laid down in 1943 but never commissioned. We worked on the book for about two years and in these days it is published on Amazon. The title is Cold Refuge by Larry Simpson. Larry let the Chief engineer explain the technical details related to the uboat and as he was`t fully conversant with the law of Archimedes he, with my consent, introduced me as the chief of the U 807 explaining the details. If you have a Kindle you might get a copy at Amazon for a very reasonable price. I guess the book is interesting as the story of the Uboat weather stations are not widely known.Tore[/color]

I just ordered the book as paperback.
I am old school when it comes to books.

SG · « **Reply #3976 on:** 08 Apr , 2019, 09:29 »

I'll try to get a copy asap, thank you for letting us know Tore!

Don Prince · « **Reply #3977 on:** 23 May , 2019, 00:52 »

Hello All,

I found it again on how to stay logged in on this website...

1. Click on a link you use to get to this website
2. Click on someones name above their avatar
3. Type in your user ID and Password (No Enter)
4. Then you see a 90 minutes, and a forever box
5. Check the forever box and now hit Enter.

Regards,
Don_

tore · « **Reply #3978 on:** 06 Jun , 2019, 12:08 »

Katuna.
Posting a cross section drawing of the GW direct reversible diesel engine as executed for the 1942 VIICs. If you want to go into details just mark off which detail interest you like on the images below.
Tore

tore · « **Reply #3979 on:** 06 Jun , 2019, 14:01 »

Katuna.
The torsional vibration damper is situated on the front of the crankshaft in the round casing. The purpose of the damper is, as you have variable masses clutched in and out in the shaft system, like propellers, clutches, generators, and motors you create a complex system with high variable torsional vibrations building up stresses in the crankshafts which sometimes even can break the shaft, this damper prevent that.
Tore

Katuna · « **Reply #3980 on:** 08 Jun , 2019, 10:42 »

Is this the pump you are referring to? I thought this was original as I thought it was the Auxiliary Oil Pump. It shows up on Plate 9 of the detail drawings.

tore · « **Reply #3981 on:** 08 Jun , 2019, 12:28 »

Katuna.
The horizontal pump is far too small for an aux. luboil pump. The aux luboilpump is a very versatile vertical big pump as shown with a red arrow on the image below. The aux. luboilpump is used both as a fueltransferpump and as an aux. luboil pump for both port and stb main engines. Below is an attemp to indicate the various alternatives Further the aux luboil pump is used to created luboilpressure when turning the engine by air or cranking like during maintenance and if the engine is flooded. Feel free to ask questions if any.
Tore

tore · « **Reply #3982 on:** 08 Jun , 2019, 12:36 »

Katuna
I almost forgot, if you intend to go into details of the engineroom, try to start with a main engine having the right pipeconnections as quite a part of the pipelinesystems are intergrated with the engine pipings.
Tore

Raymic1 · « **Reply #3983 on:** 08 Jun , 2019, 13:30 »

Engineering Tools and Spares.

Mr Tore.
From your memory I was wondering what general maintenance tools were carried onboard and where were they stored?
Obviously space was a premium so small hand tools spanners, hammers, hack saws etc in toolboxes? Stored where? Compartments in Engine room?
Was there also any small fold away workbenches with vices etc?
Did you carry any specialist tools for any larger repairs when too far away from port.?
Welding equipment etc?

Also did you carry spares or in peacetime was it easier to return or be towed back to port?

I know U505 carried spare Pistons but that was essential in Wartime. Maybe not required in peacetime?

Appreciate your insights. Thanks

Katuna · « **Reply #3984 on:** 08 Jun , 2019, 14:10 »

Raymic - I'm curious about the stowage of tools and spares as well. Depending on which line drawings you look at, it appears there is a "tool room" located just forward of the ammo storage under the officers quarters. I've wondered if this is time period specific as it shows on some Type VII drawings but not all.

I also came across info about shoring timbers. They were stored in the Forward Torpedo room and the Engine Room. Where in the heck would they have room to store timbers

tore · « **Reply #3985 on:** 08 Jun , 2019, 14:35 »

Yes we carried tools and spares like piston and liner, Pistonrings, HP fuelpumps and nozzles, main bearingshells and crankpin bearingshells. The parts were stored in containers and sometimes strapped wherever we could find place towards the shipside. As our operational area was mostly along the coast we use the coastal shipyards for major works. A common, but pretty cramped storage place was strapping parts between the main engines and shipside. I particulary remember a piston stored in a container filled with oil which I was checking, I was opening the lid and stuck my hand into the container, the oil made my fingers slippery and my marriage ring slipped off and down to the container bottom, we had a hell of a job to recover the ring. Otherwise there was no special cabinet or storage space for tools. The tool room indicated by you was for weapons as far as I remember. Wooden beams etc were scares, we could get same from shore and similar large items were stored in the casing duly secured. Otherwise we used the pressuretight casing deckcontainers, they were excellent for potatoes. Otherwise on mission above the artic circle we were accompanied by a submarine tender have a proper workshop for able to service several submarines.
Tore

Raymic1 · « **Reply #3986 on:** 08 Jun , 2019, 15:26 »

Fascinating thanks Tore.
I'm sure Mrs Tore wouldn't have been happy with you losing your ring....

Katuna
That Tool area you refer to is accessed through the munitions room side wall (which has its own floor hatch) and/or possibly by its own floor hatch. but it is for the electronics sounding/radio gear below the sailors operating area.
I've never seen a photo but read about it in one of my many books. Ill see if I can find more when time.

tore · « **Reply #3987 on:** 09 Jun , 2019, 00:32 »

Raymic.

I was newly married in those days so it would give me big troubles coming home without a ring. In the wardroom we had several hatches giving access to the munition room, weapons etc. One of the frequent used hatch was the fore battery compartment floor hatch visited by the chief electrician every morning and evening because of monotoring the charging condition of the batteries by checking the acid weights. The figures were noted on a blackboard next to my bunk, updating me and my fellow officers, we always checked the blackboard, the acid weight was just as important as the weather.
Tore

Raymic1 · « **Reply #3988 on:** 09 Jun , 2019, 01:23 »

Thanks Tore. I'm an Electrician and now Electrical Engineer so that's very interesting.
Day to day possibly mundane at the time operations of a Uboat are very interesting from a historical perspective.
Please share anything like that.

Here's my model in progress of the Ward room area.
I put 4 hatches in the floor from reference drawings.
The first I've opened up and goes to the armaments. The next goes to the 'Tool' room Katuna mentioned.
The 3rd and 4th would go to the batteries I think.
Cheers

Ps. Any info on what certain cupboards and what's behind hatches and closed doors is always interesting.

tore · « **Reply #3989 on:** 09 Jun , 2019, 01:31 »

Katuna.
Your image from das Boot seems to be pretty close to the real thing, except the not painted parts like the push rods are a bit too rusty. The engineroom crew of a submarine does not differ from normal engine room crew, on boring long watches they spend a lot of time shining the engines, using emery paper and polishpaste. Brass and steel were shining and not painted. It is unfortunate that the old U 995 has blue painted pushrods, red painted brass manometers and gauges, even red nuts, handles and pipes. In spite of warnings the model builders, even kitmakers copy this which sometimes make the VIIC models look like they were an item of an amusementpark. Generally there is a tendency to overdue the weathering, corrosion, the wear and tear of a VIIC model both externally and gloomy internally. The lifetime of a WW2 VIIC was fairly short, don`t make your model like a heap of rust ready for the scrapyard.

Tore

tore · « **Reply #3990 on:** 09 Jun , 2019, 03:20 »

Katuna.

Below I have tried to indicate the details of the wardroom. COs cabin is obvious. The wardroom had two bunks on the starboard side. Towards the ship side were the bunks. The lower bunk is for the chief engineer and the upper bunk for no 1. My "office" was the cupboard towards aft, the cupboard contained drawings , logbooks and papers related to my job and I had a small plate fixed to the cupboard wall as a writing desk, towards the wardrom was the blackboard for the acid weight. The typewriter I borrowed from the radio operator as did the CO. The wardobes and lockers were kind of humide and our stripes got green, so quite against the rules I asked the chief electrician to install one of those coalfiber bulbs in my wardrobe closet and lockers to keep it dry. This worked but was exclusively for me, even the CO didn`t get it. I don`t know if other copied my idea. On the port side of the wardroom are the bunks and lockers for the junior officers. As the wardroom was normally used as dining and dayroom, the poor guys used hot bunks. With some minor trouble you could ease down on the lower bunk using same as a seat at the table when somebody slept in the upper bunk.
Tore

Katuna · « **Reply #3991 on:** 11 Jun , 2019, 14:55 »

Tore - Is there any tank located under the pumps and piping forward of the engines or is it just open bilge? In the line drawing below it shows a Fuel Oil collection tank spanning from Port to Stbd. On Simon's 3D rendering there is no tank there. I realize that Simon may have purposely left that out to clarify the piping detail. Curious as I'm beginning to move that direction.

tore · « **Reply #3992 on:** 12 Jun , 2019, 01:09 »

Katuna. I guess you can trust Simons drawing, I can`t remember any other tank in this area. However the draintank is a part of the fuel venting and draining system of the engines which all ends up in the draintank. This is an intricate system of very small pipes on the engine and I guess more or less impossible to copy on this scale. Nevertheless the system is important as it is designed to prevent fuel pollution of the bilges. Below a small part of the fuel daytank, supply and drainage system, if you want to go into the system just ask.

Tore

tore · « **Reply #3993 on:** 12 Jun , 2019, 01:42 »

Katuna

Another GA plan showing the fueldrain tank.
Tore

Katuna · « **Reply #3994 on:** 12 Jun , 2019, 07:52 »

Oddly, the Trumpeter kit actually has that piping. Some of the few pipes they actually molded. This is a pic from another builder but it shows those drains, albeit a little overscale. That's easy enough to recreate in brass wire.

What is the actual purpose of the FO gravity tank?

Katuna · « **Reply #3995 on:** 12 Jun , 2019, 09:10 »

Another question, is the pipe in Simon's drawing shown running through the center tanks the same as in the plate drawing?

tore · « **Reply #3996 on:** 12 Jun , 2019, 10:42 »

Quote from: Katuna on 12 Jun , 2019, 07:52

Oddly, the Trumpeter kit actually has that piping. Some of the few pipes they actually molded. This is a pic from another builder but it shows those drains, albeit a little overscale. That's easy enough to recreate in brass wire.

What is the actual purpose of the FO gravity tank?

Katuna

As you probably know the fuelsystem of the VIICs are seawatercompensated which means the fueltanks are always full, having fuel on the top, eleminating the possible trim trouble and free surface effect. As the fuel is consumed the tanks are topped up by the seawatercompensating system which takes its seawater from the main engine coolingwater at the exhaustsilencer watercooling and pumped up to a head tank in the towercasing, by that the system is always under the correct pressure. From the head tank the water enter the relevant fueloiltank and fuel on the top of the tank can be transfered to the fuelsystem of the engine. The fuel system on the engine consist of a double day gravetytank (settlingtank) one half connected to the engines at the time. The tank not connected to the engines is topped up by the compensatingsystem, the other half to the engine driven fuelsupplypump attached to the engine. As the system sketch shows a MAN engine having the fuelsupply pump at the aft end I have drawn the supply pipe to the front of the GW engine. The fuelsupply pump supplies fuel under low pressure to the HP fuelpump for each cylinders. The system for suppling fuel to and from the daytank has a meter dial for the consumption and a special cock for easy selection of tanks. Just ask if any question.
Tore

tore · « **Reply #3997 on:** 12 Jun , 2019, 11:42 »

Katuna.
I might be I misunderstodd you question on the pipeline you show on the systemsketch plate 9. It shows indeed the main coolingpipe to aft, compressores, Emotors, Thrustbearing etc. But the pipe you refer to is probably the main bilge drainpipe which goes to the suction side of the main bilge pump in the controlroom, thus two different pipes. See image below.
Tore

Katuna · « **Reply #3998 on:** 12 Jun , 2019, 11:47 »

Ok, I didn't notice the bilge pick up screen was attached to that pipe. Does that bilge pipe run the length of the boat? I believe the bilge pump is in the Control room, correct?

tore · « **Reply #3999 on:** 12 Jun , 2019, 13:48 »

Katuna.
Yes the main bilgedrain pipesystem goes to every compartment in the boat. You are able to open the footvalve of the adjacent compartment by extended valvestem/rods through the watertight bulkhead as shown below.
Tore