Author Topic: USS Silversides SS-236 (Read 69269 times)

wildspear · « **on:** 02 Mar , 2008, 09:32 »

Hey all,

Still in the planing stages with my Gato. I decided to go with the pointy conning tower conversion from "Iron Bottom Sound" and I may get that small arms weapon set, it depends on what the Silversides had, I want to shoot for a late war fit. I sent an e-mail to silversides.org to see if they could help. I've seen many of the pics of her but am still a bit in a haze on what deck weapons she had.

TAS · « **Reply #1 on:** 03 Mar , 2008, 08:10 »

WILDSPEAR,
I CAN TELL YOU SILVERSIDES.ORG WILL LIKELY NOT RESPOND TO YOUR E-MAILS, THEY NEVER RESPONDED TO MINE. MY ADVICE IS TO GET SOME RESEARCE BOOKS-GATO PICTORIAL, GATOS IN ACTION, AND WHATEVER YOU CAN LAY YOUR HANDS ON. i DOUBT THE IBS FAIRWATER AND POINTED CONVERSION IS COMPLETELY ACCURATE FOR SS236 BUT IT MIGHT SPEED THINGS UP IF YOU ARE IN A HURRY. LATE WAR FIT IS MUCH AS YOU SEE HER NOW BUT I THINK THE EXCEPTION IS THE 4 INCH WAS SITED FORWARD.

wildspear · « **Reply #2 on:** 03 Mar , 2008, 15:14 »

Tas,

Thanks for the reply. Yahoo said my e-mail was undeliverable....maybe they don't monitor things in the winter. The pics I took of her seem to show the pointed conversion, I'll double check....don't want to spend money on something I may not need.

TAS · « **Reply #3 on:** 04 Mar , 2008, 06:45 »

Wildspear,
You need to note that the kit differs substantially from SS236 and you must decide on your accuracy level. You might not care as to the differences and the kit with some slight mods will we good for you. If not, then you might read the write up on the main differences between the kit and early MI boats (Portsmouth design) on Rokkets website. There will be some help forthcoming in the future to correct some of these differences. Again, get your reference books and study them. The subject is facinating!

wildspear · « **Reply #4 on:** 04 Mar , 2008, 06:58 »

Tas,

Thanks for the response. I'm a ground pounder by training and a naval lover by heart. I want to make this build as accurate as I can. I know the ship was built at Mare island(spelling?

) is that what you mean by portsmouth design? I'm ordering some reference books this weekend I was thinking of getting "Gato-Class Submarines in Action - Warships No. 28 ". Amozon sells this book for 29 bucks but e-bay has it for 10. The floating drydock has this in "Gato/Balao class Submarine of World War Two PLAN eBOOK" CD format.

TAS · « **Reply #5 on:** 04 Mar , 2008, 07:38 »

Wildspear,
All good books and will explain about the two basic designs and the building yards. Mare Island was and still might be the main repair yard for Pacific Fleet ships. During WWII, the yard also had building capability and produced subs to the government Portsmouth design. I'm glad you're going for accuracy. Be patient!

Rokket · « **Reply #6 on:** 05 Mar , 2008, 04:25 »

TAS is so right, research means SO much. Not only do you learn but it leads you to new things. And it is a thrill to model a set of real details. We should all see if we can contribute to Silversides info

TAS - what boat are you thinking about? And "TAS" -Tasmania? (SA here)

TAS · « **Reply #7 on:** 05 Mar , 2008, 08:01 »

TAS-YOU'LL HAVE TO BEAT THE DEVIL OUT OF ME TO FIND OUT! WILDSPEAR, ROKKET HAS AN AWFUL LOT OF KNOWLEDGE TO SHARE SO WRITE WHENEVER YOU HAVE A QUESTION AND MIKE-WELL, LIVING AND WORKING ON A BOAT JUST CAN'T BE REPLACED WITH BOOK LEARNIN. I'M GOING TO BUILD(?) SILVERSIDES AT THE END OF THE WAR.

TAS · « **Reply #8 on:** 06 Mar , 2008, 13:12 »

Wildspear,
Like I said, Mike has all the answers 'cause he's been there. I've had a special liking for subs as long as I can remember but served with the Army in Vietnam. All my knowledge has been gained thru reading. Check your library for "The Fleet Submarine in the U,S. Navy" (?) by Friedman (I believe). It's a lengthy but great book on the subject.

IBS · « **Reply #9 on:** 10 Mar , 2008, 17:01 »

If You want to do a late war Silverside pointy back Gato, the IBS plug is designed to do just that accurately. Mario

Rokket · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Mar , 2008, 05:28 »

The IBS towers look great, a wide range to cover all the majorstuff:

http://ibs.eastcoastarmory.com/

IBS · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Mar , 2008, 07:48 »

Hi Rokket, I think this is first time I wrote on your new board, It looks great! Congratulation. I would just like to add one note in regard to the tail piece and IBS. There is a lot knowledgeable people on these boards, But they don't know what I have on the IBS arsenal. There is a lot of other key pieces that you get with my sets. If your not sure if an IBS part works for you then email and let me know what you want to do. If I can't help you or If the part is not necessary I will be the first one to say it will not work for you. Thanks. Mario

Rokket · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 Mar , 2008, 04:33 »

Thank Mario, we appreciate your efforts!

wildspear · « **Reply #13 on:** 21 Mar , 2008, 07:08 »

It's here

,It's here

,

My super set fron Eduards came in the mail yesterday now I need my book(in route). Then I need to get a order off to IBS and Nautilas.

Rokket · « **Reply #14 on:** 24 Mar , 2008, 06:02 »

WE all know the thrill you're experiencing, Wild...the electricity that shoots up from the toes and thru the body (or maybe from the chest down to the toes)..a model/boat-gasm!

The Eduard set looks FANTABUOUS, as do the IBS towers, BUT...there is OTHER good stuff in the works!

wildspear · « **Reply #15 on:** 24 Mar , 2008, 07:12 »

I know ....the long awaited torpedo doors, it will take awile for this build so I geuss I can wait.......dont like too though.

wildspear · « **Reply #16 on:** 25 Mar , 2008, 13:49 »

Does the pointy back from IBS come with the lockers?

Also I saw that the marker boey set comes with gun platforms, would it work for the USS Silversides? in the pic you can see the 2 gun platforms on the deck. Also the lockers on the sail are of different sizes, if they are included in the conversion from IBS are they different sizes? I'm hoping mario will see this.

rabapla · « **Reply #17 on:** 25 Mar , 2008, 13:54 »

James from Nautilus models just wrote to me that after the early wahoo set he'll do a silverside set in her '44 configuration.
Just for information

by the way, just write to Mario from IBS, he'll answer for sure.

IBS · « **Reply #18 on:** 25 Mar , 2008, 19:35 »

Hi , I do have the parts (lockers & platforms) to transform a sub tower like this, But It would still require a good deal of body work on modelers end, since this a mare Island Boat. The difference being in that the sides don't have that forward to midsection flared shift like on the revell EB/ Manit..tower. You have to alter the side by removing that flaring shift. As for the individual parts , just let what you need when ordering sets. Thanks Mario

wildspear · « **Reply #19 on:** 25 Mar , 2008, 20:54 »

Hey all,

I got some e-mails from mario and it seems to do the silversides I will have to do some scratch work. I'm to stubborn to go an easier way and do a different boat so I'm still going to do the Silversides. I'll be placing my order to IBS for a pointy back and the marker buoy set. Does any onr know where I would be able to get a foot print of the conning tower for Mare island boats? I'm still a few weeks out from taking a trip to the actual sub (waiting for the snow to go away).

rabapla · « **Reply #20 on:** 26 Mar , 2008, 00:54 »

what's a
"flaring shift"?

what I call (in my improper english) "angled tower sides"?

IBS · « **Reply #21 on:** 26 Mar , 2008, 06:46 »

Yes on those angle sides, , Flaired shift is just IBS slang we use for those particular tower sides. We have our own dictionary just on parts

. Mario

Rokket · « **Reply #22 on:** 28 Mar , 2008, 03:13 »

Thanks Mario, very excited by your stuff!

wildspear · « **Reply #23 on:** 02 Jun , 2008, 19:08 »

I'm working on the silversides slowly but surely;

I used the Gato/Prewar Classes Flood Templates from Nautilus models. I also have two coats of grey primer on to help show anything I may have to tweek.

The holes you see show the access holes where I put sprayed foam. I did this to give the build some heft and to also prevent flexing duting handiling.

Rokket · « **Reply #24 on:** 04 Jun , 2008, 06:47 »

Nice hull work, looking great!

wildspear · « **Reply #25 on:** 06 Jun , 2008, 17:03 »

Hey all,

I have a question. Does anyone have some pics that shows the bow of the Gato ? I'm looking for some good pics of the anchore area. The pics I have from the Silversides museum dont show that area because they have a metal plate welded in place(reasons I dont know why). I would like some pics that show they anchore deployed ans the anchore in the raised position.

Rokket · « **Reply #26 on:** 06 Jun , 2008, 19:20 »

Here's something for now...

wildspear · « **Reply #27 on:** 07 Jun , 2008, 05:04 »

Thanks Rokket,

That does help. If you have more I'd like to see them but these will help me a great deal. Maybe you have one with the planes deployed???

Rokket · « **Reply #28 on:** 08 Jun , 2008, 00:55 »

wildspear · « **Reply #29 on:** 08 Jun , 2008, 07:12 »

Thats so awsome Mr. Rokket

Rokket · « **Reply #30 on:** 09 Jun , 2008, 02:33 »

No worries, mate, that's what we're here for.

Note that the torp doors ("shutters" in tech talk") are the late war style with the square rebates, unlike the older ovals. (I know you're working on the anchor, but thought I'd mention it just in case).

wildspear · « **Reply #31 on:** 07 Jul , 2008, 18:50 »

I started work on the sail. I have a pointy back from IBS that I'm trying to incorporate. First time trying something this major, we'll see how it goes.

rabapla · « **Reply #32 on:** 11 Jul , 2008, 00:00 »

great!!

a building report is started! with pictures!

very keen to see Your work!

Rokket · « **Reply #33 on:** 11 Jul , 2008, 23:35 »

Looks like an excellent start, has all you need - plannign and execution. It's a real thing now, taking shape!

wildspear · « **Reply #34 on:** 12 Jul , 2008, 13:07 »

Had a mishap the other day, seems the putty I'm using doesn't like the sheet styren(bad spelling) that I have. Had a bit of a buckle and I'll have to sand that out. I should have more pics of the sail tomorrow night, darn work getting in the way of important things.

Rokket · « **Reply #35 on:** 12 Jul , 2008, 22:19 »

Oooohhhh...these things ahappen. What putty? I can't find the Squadron green lately, Squadron white was OK but nothing special. I do like the Tamiya grey, but that is pretty "hot" for styrene and can act like a solvent if you use too much. It's creamy and very strong and plasticy, good stuff if used wisely. (great for resin!)

wildspear · « **Reply #36 on:** 13 Jul , 2008, 02:25 »

I was using the Squadron white. I also have the green but that can be a bit hard to cover up with primer at times.

Rokket · « **Reply #37 on:** 13 Jul , 2008, 05:17 »

Yes, very good point. I definitely recommend the Tamiya grey, but use it wisely! Actually, my main trend for awhile is to avoid putty..."cheat" byt scraping plastic around area to blend and use as little as possible, and in some seam-filling applications, use CA (superglue) - tho that is much harder than the surrounding plastic. At one time, years ago, I experimented with styrene shavings (really "sawdust" mixed with solvent. Good in theory, but without machinery it's hard to homebrew it.

Anyway, great work, and good on ya for attempting something new and tricky. if it doesn't work the first time, you c an do it again! But by your progress shots, I'd say it's working fine.

Mike K · « **Reply #38 on:** 13 Jul , 2008, 10:54 »

Home brew is easy. Chop up some of the kit's sprue, toss it in a half bottle of Tenax-7R, until you have a nice thick goop. Perfect color match on model. Sands same as model, and can be polished to match model finish. It's also easier to make stretched sprue, for rigging and weld lines.
On the negative side, if you put too much on, at one time, it can melt the plastic under it. So it takes time to build up things. Probably 3 or 4 days, to build up half an inch.
It's the method I use to put a "Tench" chin on the big Revell Gato.

Mike K.

Rokket · « **Reply #39 on:** 14 Jul , 2008, 05:23 »

And that looks mighty fine, so it works!

TAS · « **Reply #40 on:** 14 Jul , 2008, 08:30 »

Wildspear- good to see you working on scratchbuilding! Above all, don't get discouraged. The process might take a little longer but the results and satisfaction will be all the better. Besides, your tower will match the Silversides exactly.

Rokket · « **Reply #41 on:** 15 Jul , 2008, 05:36 »

Well said, TAS. What are you working on?

TAS · « **Reply #42 on:** 15 Jul , 2008, 06:39 »

Hi Guys, I'll be working on the USS Silversides hopefully soon. Many other things to get out of the way first. Besides, I can sure use the experiences of others shared on this wabsite- at my age I don't nave time to repeat things! Thats the great thing about a site like this- one can gain lots of valuable info and avoid problems. My hat is off to the guys who step forward first-Full Speed Ahead! My hat is also off to all the vets who served in boats like these- if you've been aboard or done any reading, wou'll know what I mean.

Rokket · « **Reply #43 on:** 19 Jul , 2008, 02:53 »

Good logic and I think (hope) we all agree about sub vets. keep us posted!

wildspear · « **Reply #44 on:** 19 Jul , 2008, 15:14 »

Hey everyone,

Making some progress on the tower.

Just the lower half of the tower. I still have some fine adjusting to do. I've started to mark locations for the back lockers (lockers are from IBS.) The pointy back is also from IBS but I'm in the process of fixing a spot I messed up on. I drill some holes in the pointy back to match the Silversides but I dont know if it was an honest mistake or a plain old brain malfunction. I made the holes way to big and that made to whole patteren way to big. At lest I'm getting lots of putty practice.

Rokket · « **Reply #45 on:** 19 Jul , 2008, 18:49 »

Looking good! Nidce to see some scratch work coming along! Have you lokked at the Floating Drydock Electronic Book Gato plans (or hardcopy), could be useful.

wildspear · « **Reply #46 on:** 31 Aug , 2008, 20:41 »

Hey all, here are some pics of the work I'm doing...hard to keep on track with all this nice weather here in MI.

Pic of my work area

some of the bow work

some of the detail of the sides

more side detail

trying to build the coning tower a little different. first time didn't work very well.

Rokket · « **Reply #47 on:** 02 Sep , 2008, 14:57 »

Looking good! Don't worry about trouble with the CT, for good stuff you often have to do it twice...

Siara · « **Reply #48 on:** 02 Sep , 2008, 16:33 »

What gives i`ve mised this topic for so long?

Its nice to see other people wake up in the morning to the smell of steryne.

Ill be following your work from now on Wildspear.
Good luck with the build.

wildspear · « **Reply #49 on:** 18 Sep , 2008, 20:48 »

Hey all. I'm still plugging along on the Silversides. At times I think I've bit off more than I can chew but I step back do something else then come back to the ship later and start again.

My boys wanted to show off dads model, or I should say what I have done to date. The rest can be seen at my web blog...didn't want to clutter up the site with all my pics.

Rokket · « **Reply #50 on:** 20 Sep , 2008, 02:38 »

It takes a long time to build a sub, don't lose heart! keep going, and in the end you will have a journey and goal (hmm, this stuff should be in fortune cookies!) Good boat, good lads!

wildspear · « **Reply #51 on:** 22 Sep , 2008, 07:42 »

I think the most problems I have had to date were putting the flood(limber) holes in. I have some stencils I got from mario and I have had some problems cutting out the holes. I tried using a new blade but the material of the stencil tends to move a bit when I'm cutting. Maybe I need more practice who knows. I ended up just drilling through the stencil and fileing the holes that way (make an opening with the drill then file, file, and more filing). This does work but I thought cutting the hole in the stencil was what was expected.

When I get to sections that I have used putty to cover holes that wern't desired the putty some times flakes or falls out of the hole. I used styrene as a backer but the putty seems brittle and has no strength when it comes to working in that area. I have the PE set but it doesnt have the desired holes for the ship I'm building.

One other thing...... I have to cut out the deck so I can place the PE deck. The instructions say to use bracing to support the PE deck, but should I attached the "frame" to the ship before I attache the PE deck? I have worries that if I attache the PE before I place it on the sub I'll have damage to the PE deck(twisting and other mishaps). Any tips and tricks to installing Pe deck's would help allot.

Rokket · « **Reply #52 on:** 23 Sep , 2008, 06:01 »

I would use plastic backing as you do, and tiny plastic for the holes, rather than putty. You might have to reshape, but with some CA (superglue) it will make a much nicer filler. I messed up a bow limber hole, so i cut a small piece of styrene, CA-ed it in place, the refiled. Good as new and no flaking.

PE dedck - Eduard? Bear in mind it is POST WAR and not accuarte for a WWII boat...BUT, I would add the supports to the boat, then lay the PE on top of that, much like the real decks.

wildspear · « **Reply #53 on:** 24 Sep , 2008, 09:48 »

Hey all. Had a great trip to see the silversides yesterday. Question I was told that the Silversides would carry 4ea >50 cal in the storage lockers that were in the conning tower. Does that sound right? Would there have only been the four up top and none stored down below?

I have some more pics at photo bucket, not all of them are loaded yet, I'll try to finish tonight.
http://s189.photobucket.com/albums/z72/wildspear/

Rokket · « **Reply #54 on:** 25 Sep , 2008, 02:14 »

Interesting.

I know that the USN, like the Kriegsmarine, kept adding anti-aircraft guns during the war. Some USN subs had 20mm, .50 cals, and bristled with small auto weapons. (They also carried a couple Tommy guns, some with 30-rnd straight clips and some with 50-rnd drums, some .45 pistols, and some other little goodies. there was a weapons locker for that, below, but it does make sense to put the big .50 belt-fed puppies up where they would be used. So much quicker and more space.

Anyone smarter or more well-read have any info on this?

wildspear · « **Reply #55 on:** 25 Sep , 2008, 05:58 »

The lockers I have pictured are on the port side and there are matching ones on the starboard side. they were used for the guns and pintels. The lockers at the stern of the tower were used for the ammo of the 4" gun and I dont know what else....maybe the ammo for the other guns....not a whole lot of room in those lockers though.

Rokket · « **Reply #56 on:** 30 Sep , 2008, 02:18 »

From a 1945 PT BoatInduction Manual:

Gunnery Locker.-This is a spacious tubby hole located about amidships. The gunners are
gradually being forced out, but it still is the ideal place for stowage of gun barrels and other
spares, as well as for small arms. It is a dry, clean spot and accommodates much ammunition. It
is better to stow gunnery and torpedo tools topside in a watertight 20-mm. box. Many boats
have added this feature to the fantail of the boat. The tools are more accessible and the
bulkheads below decks will be much cleaner. Many gunners think the bulkheads are "pay
chits". Hence, the many fingerprints often found there.

wildspear · « **Reply #57 on:** 09 Oct , 2008, 05:16 »

I noticed in some photos of the launch of "Silversides" that there seemed to be anchor wells on both sides of her. Was this common in the early gato's? It looked like the "right side"(sorry early morn and I forgot the term) was being use and the "left side" was just an empty well.

Mike K · « **Reply #58 on:** 09 Oct , 2008, 11:03 »

You're observations are correct. BUT, Silversides was one of the few boats (and I can't think of any others), that had port and starboard anchor wells.
As I said, I can't think of any other boats with two wells, so it's an anomally, with Silversides.
But, as a submariner, which would you rather have, a second anchor (with chain), or it's equilivent weight in torpedos (2 or 3)?
Mike K.

wildspear · « **Reply #59 on:** 10 Oct , 2008, 09:19 »

Another thing....did submarines have chain with there anchors or was it cable? Plus how often would a sub use there anchor? I wouldn't think it would be alot.

Mike K · « **Reply #60 on:** 10 Oct , 2008, 11:16 »

Quick answer: Chain. And anchoring out was seldom done.

Mike K,

wildspear · « **Reply #61 on:** 14 Oct , 2008, 05:52 »

I have almost all of the deck cut off. I bought the "Big ED" PE set before I researched what I needed for my build....LOL, needless to say I only need the very back portion of the deck PE since that was the only metal part of the deck(except for the very front of the boat). I trying to place the stringers(braces) in the same area that the boats stringers were in so I can have space between the deck and pressure vessel. We'll see how that works out.

Rokket · « **Reply #62 on:** 16 Oct , 2008, 01:50 »

Sounds like good work. The stringers are work, but an excellent way to go. The Eduard set looks very nice, tho it IS postwar. We are trying to complete a Portsmouth Deck and roundover panels for Silversides, but there are a few things ahead.

Rokket · « **Reply #63 on:** 20 Oct , 2008, 02:18 »

A web surfer passing by was kind enough to send you this info, Wildspear:

"Check out Tamiya Model Magazine #138
It has a build up of the Silversides by Ian Ruscoe."
Eric M.

A web searched shows the mag is available for download, but BE CAREFUL! One site I was checking out was HIGHLY suspicious (spyware/virus).

wildspear · « **Reply #64 on:** 20 Oct , 2008, 11:58 »

Thanks for the heads up on that rokket. I down loaded that....great read.

Rokket · « **Reply #65 on:** 24 Oct , 2008, 18:08 »

Glad it was good - thank ric. Do you have a copy? (I couldn't get through the bad download).

wildspear · « **Reply #66 on:** 25 Oct , 2008, 11:13 »

i can send a copy as an attachedment.

Rokket · « **Reply #67 on:** 25 Oct , 2008, 17:42 »

you're aces. if over3meg my mailbox might go crazy (theoretically takes 10, but often gets clogged) - try actually, ampmodels@gmail.com, might hold more.

THANKS! - oh, NEW outer torp door master machined (but not assembled), still have a few shutters to do...

wildspear · « **Reply #68 on:** 25 Oct , 2008, 22:03 »

It will have to wait til tomorrow night, I'm in colorado right now. I fly back in the morning.

wildspear · « **Reply #69 on:** 27 Oct , 2008, 19:18 »

Hey Rokket, just sent the e-mail out (whole scan 22.3mb) with pando.....hope you have pando to open it, if not let me know and I'll compress it and resend.

Rokket · « **Reply #70 on:** 28 Oct , 2008, 02:29 »

Thanks wild, just got it, got Pando, and presto! Very nice!

The fellow in the article made some nice mods, and did a great paint job, BUT! OH what a "but"! - He says it's "Silversides". Of course, Silversides was a Portsmouth plan, and the model is Electric Boat. The only real face slapper is the limber pattern! It's NOTHING remotely like the Silversides! We're not talking a pair-pair as opposed to a single, or some tiny spacing, but the fact that EBs had half moon arches, and the Psmouth boats had two rows of ovals! I'm surprised people didn't yell it out.

His model is very nice though, especially the paint job.

wildspear · « **Reply #71 on:** 28 Oct , 2008, 21:06 »

Ya, I noticed some short comeings in the build he did but it's still a really nice build and a good read.

Rokket · « **Reply #72 on:** 03 Nov , 2008, 05:07 »

Beautiful paint job, just missing some holes

wildspear · « **Reply #73 on:** 12 Nov , 2008, 22:02 »

It's been awhile since I posted but the whole RW thing always gets in the way of modeling. Funny thing happened today, I always make my wife veiw my builds as I complete different sections. So I finished some work on the Silversides and as I finished telling her what I had completed and what else I was planning with the section I was working on she told me I was to "Picky" now tell me guys.......are we sub builders ever to picky?

I would have to say NO! LOL! I removed most of the molded deck because it was a metal deck and the Silversides had very little metal. The forward part of the Bow had a solid metal deck and then maybe the last 25% towards the bow metal decking. IThe rest was the good old wood deck. I'm still up in the air about what to do with the tower. Pro's and con's with scratch build and resin after market....so while I'm deciding on that I can work on the deck. We'll enough talk heres some pics, be gentle I still need some touch up to do and I'm still trying to decided how to replace all of the weld lines that I sanded and file off.

Rokket · « **Reply #74 on:** 12 Nov , 2008, 23:13 »

Looking very nice - good to see so much progress!

SS236Chief · « **Reply #75 on:** 26 Nov , 2008, 10:48 »

Hi all,

Just found your forum. Until last summer I was the senior tour guide on staff, the "chief tour guide" at the Great Lakes Naval Memorial and Museum, home of the USS Silversides. While I was there I did extensive research and completely revised and rewrote the manual the museum used to train its tour guides for both of the exhibit vessels. My dad just purchased this kit, and obviously intends to convert it to the Silversides. I'd be happy to answer any questions you all might have, or send any documentation you might be interested in.

Sincerely,
Jonathon

P.S. I read that some phone calls and correspondance hasn't been answered. Typical. Unfortunately, the museum has undergone a drastic change in leadership, wherein all of the former employees were ousted. They only have one part time tour guide now who even knows the boat well enough to give a guided tour.

Rokket · « **Reply #76 on:** 27 Nov , 2008, 00:19 »

Welcome Jonathon!
Thanks for your offer, we'll all be asking a lot of questions I'm sure!

Sad to hear about the change at the museum. I used to work for Plimoth Plantation, and over the years the program has changed and lessened, especially aboard Mayflower II. The Management got rid of 12 frontline employees and bought the CEO an expensive 4wdr car. (Pretty good for "non profit"!) It must be a museum thing!

Cheers,
Wink

wildspear · « **Reply #77 on:** 27 Nov , 2008, 00:30 »

I was a bit disappointed in the staff there, they just finished a new building, pretty impressive, but I think they could have down sized a bit and spent some of that money on the sub. I am sure I will have questions for you as my build progresses.

SS236Chief · « **Reply #78 on:** 27 Nov , 2008, 09:39 »

Rokket,

Interesting you should mention that, I just watched a show yesterday on the History Channel that featured the Plimoth Museum. Yes, it is interesting that nonprofits always seem to have thier fair share of drama. The new staff at the GLNMM hardly knows (or are even interested) about the submarine, and yes, the submarie veterans are extremely upset that the money they raised for a 20-year overdue dry dock was apparently rerouted to put up the new building...

But on a lighter note, yes I'd be happy to answer any questions. Happy thanksgiving.

wildspear · « **Reply #79 on:** 29 Nov , 2008, 11:53 »

Chief,

A couple quick questions. The hand rails, they had spots( 4 I believe) for a .50 cal to be mounted. Were these carried on the Silversides? Also there are many different markings (ships sank, airmen rescued, etc...) what would have been on the Silversides during war? any markings?

SS236Chief · « **Reply #80 on:** 03 Dec , 2008, 11:56 »

Spear,

There is some debate about the 4 enlarged stanchions on either side of the fairwater. Without a doubt, they are gunmounts, but the "patrol record" that that museum sells in the gift shop (it is basically excerpts from the boat's smooth log and other misc. info) lists them as mounts for .30 cals. I'm not sure I believe that, and so yes, I'd say they were .50 cals. Were they carried aboard or not? Tough to say. If you'll notice on the patrol record, the sub destroyed 14 mines. At LEAST one of them is listed in the record as being destroyed by gunfire from the boat when they were surfaced, and I would assume probably with one of the machine guns. The armories aboard subs were said to have some springfields or M-1s, some 1911's but I'm not sure you could destroy a floating mine with something that small.

Would the patrol record have been painted on the fairwater during service? No. In fact, even when she changed designation to an AGSS, I don't think it was painted on there. However, there is some talk of "brag rags" which were small Japanese flags that might be flown when coming into port after a deployment to indicate ships sunk. Aside from that, there's always the "clean sweep" broom, but again, I'm not sure how often that would have been flown. To my knowledge, these days brooms are typically only flown aboard after a shakedown with the manufacturer.

wildspear · « **Reply #81 on:** 03 Dec , 2008, 12:44 »

Ya, the guy giving the tours now (totally forgot his name, sorry) he told me they carried four brownings....thats alot of room. I'll put the stantions on my build but not the fifties. I was already going to leave the sail art off. I know the guys on board work their tails off for it but I think it detracts from it. They still have a broom tied off to the radar(I think). I'll have more question later on, at work right now, thanks for the info.

wildspear · « **Reply #82 on:** 11 Jan , 2009, 08:20 »

On the Silversides, the side on the Sail (tower) there are two door ways(one on each side) You can see the upper pressure hull but the are life vest stored in this area. I wouldn't think they would have items stored in there since it could float away and foul the ship or even give it's position away. Can any one tell me if things of this nature were stored there? Also there are no doors on either doorway, when were these removed?

Mr.Mox · « **Reply #83 on:** 11 Jan , 2009, 08:37 »

As far as I know, the doors were first added much later, propably on boats on museeums etc.

I would think that west and dinghys would be stored i some of the other waterproof containers littering the sail.

Cheers/Jan

SS236Chief · « **Reply #84 on:** 12 Mar , 2009, 13:41 »

Unfortunately without my patrol log here I can not tell you after which refit those doors were actually added. The area inside is referred to in slang term as the "boatswain's hole" and COULD have been used for storage of equipment that the deck crew used that might have been able to be tied down. However, as you all have correctly presumed, it WAS a free-flooding storage area without any hatch covers of any type. And yes, you CAN see the aft side of the pressure vessel for the conn located in the boatswain's hole as well.

wildspear · « **Reply #85 on:** 14 Mar , 2009, 14:06 »

Thanks for the info, on my build I'll be showing some of the detail inside that area.

Mike K · « **Reply #86 on:** 16 Mar , 2009, 11:30 »

Wildspear, drop me a line at << mkeatingss(at)cox.net >>. I may have some drawings that might be of use to you.

Mike K.

wildspear · « **Reply #87 on:** 16 Mar , 2009, 11:38 »

Mike,
Thanks! E-mail to follow.

Division 6 · « **Reply #88 on:** 27 Jul , 2009, 22:46 »

Quote from: SS236Chief on 12 Mar , 2009, 13:41

Unfortunately without my patrol log here I can not tell you after which refit those doors were actually added. The area inside is referred to in slang term as the "boatswain's hole" and COULD have been used for storage of equipment that the deck crew used that might have been able to be tied down. However, as you all have correctly presumed, it WAS a free-flooding storage area without any hatch covers of any type. And yes, you CAN see the aft side of the pressure vessel for the conn located in the boatswain's hole as well.

Anyone have pix or blueprints of this area.
I have 4 pix I found but more would be better.

Eric...

wildspear · « **Reply #89 on:** 28 Jul , 2009, 02:32 »

The only pics I have of that room are on my photobucket site. Try this http://s189.photobucket.com/albums/z72/wildspear/
or you can do a search at photo bucket for s236

Division 6 · « **Reply #90 on:** 28 Jul , 2009, 04:38 »

Thanks.
I have most of the pix in the link but I appear to have missed a few.

Is the vertical tube only on the port side or both?
I don't see it on the starboard side.

Eric...

wildspear · « **Reply #91 on:** 28 Jul , 2009, 05:31 »

Just on the one side. It's a very cramped area in there, maybe 5 feet tall and 3 or 4 feet wide.

Division 6 · « **Reply #92 on:** 28 Jul , 2009, 09:19 »

Thanks for the info.

I noticed that all the fairwaters that that Nautilus produces have them on both sides even the Silversides that's why I asked.

Eric...

wildspear · « **Reply #93 on:** 28 Jul , 2009, 14:19 »

I'm having to scratch build the Silversides fairwater. Nautilus and IBS have the internal stuff wrong. I might try to get out to the Silversides on 2 AUG 09. My comp crashed and wiped out my photos, good thing I live close to the ship.

Division 6 · « **Reply #94 on:** 28 Jul , 2009, 15:27 »

Sorry to hear about the computer, I had the same thing happen about a year ago.
I needed a newer and better computer anyway, my old one was a dinosaur.(450mh)
Fortunately I was able to put the old drive in an external box and retrieve my files.

If you do go I would be interested in more photos of the room and if the hatch to the galley is open some pix of that too.
any inner structure under the deck, in the escape hatch area below. etc...

Eric...

wildspear · « **Reply #95 on:** 28 Jul , 2009, 15:44 »

ok, I'll let you know later this week for sure whether im going or not.

Division 6 · « **Reply #96 on:** 29 Jul , 2009, 22:47 »

Hay I was just looking at the Model War Ship forum going through the Fans of Gato Sub section.
Since I see you have posted in the thread you might want to correct Mario of IBS.

He just told everyone that the covers over the Sea Chests where the FV flood hole covers.
Not even close.
The sea chest's are for the water intakes used for water cooling machinery, not part of the ballast system.

Also the abbreviations might be of help to the folks over there since they asked the difference between FA and FV.

FA is the free flood and FV is the fuel tanks that are used as flood tanks once the fuel had been used.
These have valves that need to to be opened manually.
Full description Including illustrations on how this works can be found in the Trim and Drain section of the Fleet Type Sub Manual found here.
http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/trim/index.htm

Eric...

Mike K · « **Reply #97 on:** 30 Jul , 2009, 13:32 »

Hey!! Division 6, if you need interior details, I've got BuShips (Balao,Tench & ,maybe, a Few Gato) interior drawings. Let me know what you need, and I'll see what I can put together. They're all electronic drawings (scans) so I'll email them.

Mike K. <<mkeatingss(AT)cox.net

Division 6 · « **Reply #98 on:** 30 Jul , 2009, 16:10 »

Hi Mike.

I'm looking for anything under the deck that can bee seen form the limber holes and the slots down the sides also in the areas of the forward escape trunk and inside the openings of the fairwater.
If you have drawings of the section where the marker buoys are like what you see if they are removed would be helpful.

I'm building the Bream SS243 (EB Gato Class) launched a month before the Cobia.
Thanks for the offer.

Eric...

wildspear · « **Reply #99 on:** 30 Jul , 2009, 20:37 »

Wheather guy is calling for rain on Sunday but if he's wrong (all I need is a couple of hours) I'll run over to the Silversides and fill up my digital with photos. They have the escape trunk
(the door) open.

wildspear · « **Reply #100 on:** 02 Aug , 2009, 09:30 »

No rain for today!!!! I'm off to the USS Silversides

wildspear · « **Reply #101 on:** 04 Oct , 2009, 13:27 »

Mr. Rokket,

I'm a bit confused with the outer doors for my Gato. Looking at the three doors it seems that the front part of the lower door is to long. Am I supposed to trim this? I recieved one of the first sets of your doors, did you make any instructions for them? I know my post is confusing so would it be better if I posted some pics of my problem?

Rokket · « **Reply #102 on:** 04 Oct , 2009, 16:10 »

Yes, post pix it will help. Here's a link to the PDF instructions (540kb): http://amp.rokket.biz/docs/gato_torp_sht_spoon_web.pdf

The shutters are slightly long because they sit BEHIND the bow spoon. The front scoops must be thinned VERY thin for the shutters to sit right. You should see it easily in the instructions. Also, on the AMP website there is an animation (below) showing how the shutters moved and went behind.

AND...as you received a prototype, if you find your boat had the Valley or Balao shutters instead, I'll send you a free set of those. Consult the PDF list of what boats had what (Library section of AMP). The Balao has had Portside cast, working on Starboard master and molds. Valley still doing masters.

Hope this helps

wildspear · « **Reply #103 on:** 04 Oct , 2009, 16:22 »

ok, that does help. I'm pretty sure I have the correct shutters. I'll take some pics when I get home. Thanks.

Division 6 · « **Reply #104 on:** 05 Oct , 2009, 17:06 »

Pic of the shutters.

btw did you ever get over to the boat for those pix?

Eric...

wildspear · « **Reply #105 on:** 06 Oct , 2009, 10:36 »

Yep, I made it to the ship. I put them on my photobucket album here's the link http://s189.photobucket.com/albums/z72/wildspear/

wildspear · « **Reply #106 on:** 06 Oct , 2009, 10:51 »

As you can tell, I cut a little to much out but that can be fixed. I may have to cut the whole front off in order to place the shutter in the right way. I got a little ahead of my self.

Division 6 · « **Reply #107 on:** 06 Oct , 2009, 15:00 »

Thanks for posting the new pix.
Some nice shots there especially the under decks at the bow and inside the fairwater.

It's interesting that they never upgraded the marker buoys to the oblong version.

Making some progress on you build I see.

Eric...

Rokket · « **Reply #108 on:** 07 Oct , 2009, 01:25 »

Looking good!

wildspear · « **Reply #109 on:** 15 Nov , 2009, 11:39 »

I got a secret source and their sending me a Silversides Fairwater from Nautilus, and also an echo set from IBS. I have never seen any pictures of the echo gear on the Gato's, does anyone have a few pic's they could send me?

Mike K · « **Reply #110 on:** 17 Nov , 2009, 09:56 »

Sure, Wildspear. Email me at mkeatingss(AT)cox(dot)net .
Mike K.

wildspear · « **Reply #111 on:** 01 May , 2010, 16:27 »

Does anyone have some pics of the inside of the Bow, around the Planes area?

Rokket · « **Reply #112 on:** 02 May , 2010, 03:46 »

There are some pix on another thread: http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=233.0

wildspear · « **Reply #113 on:** 02 May , 2010, 05:43 »

ty rokket

Mike K · « **Reply #114 on:** 02 May , 2010, 16:35 »

Hey, Wildspear. I've got two or three pictures of the bow planes rigging gear. I lost a bunch of email address when my computer crashed, a while back. So drop me a line. I've, also, got some drawings.

Mike K.

wildspear · « **Reply #115 on:** 14 May , 2011, 10:22 »

Good day to all, I have been off the sight for a bit and I'd like to say sorry for that. I haven't finished my Silversides as of yet and I was going to give it another go. But I'm stalled at the fairwater. I had tried to make adjustments to the one supplied with the kit, didnt turn out well. Can some peeps discribe how they fassion theirs? Or would it be better to post what I have and you can make suggestions after that.

Rokket · « **Reply #116 on:** 14 May , 2011, 23:26 »

tell us more and what you think is trouble/wrong. Hey, glad you're back!

wildspear · « **Reply #117 on:** 16 May , 2011, 20:55 »

Since I haven't worked on my sub for a long time I had thought I was still trying to fashion a sail by scratch. When I open my box up I noticed a sail I purchased from IBS. So I guess I should get back into the swing of things. My main sticking points will be the deck, getting the pattern of the wood the right way, and the mating of the wood deck with the metal deck.

On another note I was contacted by a person, his god father was the TBS ( I believe that's what he said) operator on the Silversides. He is getting ready to start on a Silverside model. I told him to check out the site.

wildspear · « **Reply #118 on:** 17 May , 2011, 20:31 »

Anyone know of any companies that make accessories in 1/72? Like life rings, life jackets, general navy type things that would decorate decks and such?

Rokket · « **Reply #119 on:** 21 May , 2011, 22:17 »

TBS is a radio talk, they mention the "TBS circuit" for talking to other ships, and nicknamed it "Talk Between Ships" (TBS). That's all I got there.

1:72 accessories - not specifically a source, altho sometimes the weird semi 1:96 scale of sailing ships can yield bits.

Wood deck - yeah, I might take Pat's advice and just build one a slat at a time...

wildspear · « **Reply #120 on:** 22 May , 2011, 06:56 »

AAAHHHH! I went back and read the email and it seems I had it wrong. Here is the comment "My God Father is Gene Malone the WWII TDC operator for Jack Coye"
At least I had the first letter right. Last night I was attempting to fabricate a portion of the periscope support inside the sail. It didn't turn out like I wanted. I tried brass tube and solder ( solder iron wasn't up to the task , wouldn't keep temp) since I have plenty of this. Next I tried wood dowel and styrene, didn't look very good. Today I will go buy some styrene tube and see if that works.

side note: I'm getting a better solder iron from amazon on Friday. You can keep track of my explots at my blog site, link is in my sig.

Rokket · « **Reply #121 on:** 25 May , 2011, 06:15 »

looking fwd to checking out progress!

wildspear · « **Reply #122 on:** 28 May , 2011, 12:03 »

I got the lower periscope tower scratched and painted ( I'll get photos loaded once home from work). I was going to order some rudders and things from wink but there was a great deal on a 4x4 jeep, wife said I could buy it if I would leave hers alone (modding it and such) so I bought it and now I have to wait on Silverside purchases until next pay day.

Rokket · « **Reply #123 on:** 01 Jun , 2011, 04:27 »

Good logic, we forgive you. Took a few days to get pix up anyway. Enjoy!

wildspear · « **Reply #124 on:** 01 Jun , 2011, 05:39 »

I just looked at the rudder set and the stern shutter set.......in another week I'll purchase this before it goes away... ty wink

Rokket · « **Reply #125 on:** 03 Jun , 2011, 23:33 »

no worries mate

Sailmaker · « **Reply #126 on:** 10 Jun , 2011, 05:26 »

Morning all and thanks Wildspear for pointing me to this forum!!! It is good to find a group with such a depth of knowledge in this area and so willing to share. I am amazed at all the questions already answered by just reviewing the posts on the site - a tremendous resource.
Yes as Wildspear noted above, my godfather was indeed Jack Coye's radar and Torpedo Data Computer (TDC) operator in WWII and he is the inspiration for this build. I am in the process of laying out my plan of attack, and gathering aftermarket details targeting Silversides cc 1944, I will dress her out in Measure 9. Many thanks to Wink, James, and Mario for the products they offer, these give hope of actually and successfully finishing my project with some level authenticity!! Was wondering if there are any inside the CT detailing out there, am planning some scratch work in this area if not available. Wildspear I tried to access your photo library on photobucket but it wants a password?? Nothing like photos to answer to all those detail questions!!

aptivaboy · « **Reply #127 on:** 04 Aug , 2011, 23:05 »

FYI, if you want to do her in early 1943, there are some great vids of her here: http://www.criticalpast.com/products/search/?sort_by=&sort_order=asc&q=silversides

Rokket · « **Reply #128 on:** 05 Aug , 2011, 23:06 »

great site, thanks for pointing it out. Just read a book on the Silversides, written in 1943 but published in 1945: "Suilversides: Hunter-Killer Attack sub of WWII" by Robert Trumbull.

wildspear · « **Reply #129 on:** 13 Nov , 2011, 15:44 »

Might be a question for Mike K; Did "Silversides have Degaussing cables early war?

Mike K · « **Reply #130 on:** 14 Nov , 2011, 10:35 »

I don't know. But I'll see if I can find out.

Mike K.

wildspear · « **Reply #131 on:** 20 Nov , 2011, 11:36 »

anyone have some pics of the inboard of the bridge upper fairwater?

Rokket · « **Reply #132 on:** 27 Nov , 2011, 04:32 »

I'll have a look, I might have a few.

wildspear · « **Reply #133 on:** 27 Nov , 2011, 06:23 »

That would be great if you had a few.

aptivaboy · « **Reply #134 on:** 27 Nov , 2011, 19:13 »

According to the videos here (http://www.criticalpast.com/products/search/?sort_by=&sort_order=asc&q=silversides), she didn't have degaussing cables. At least, she didn't en route back to the states for refit. Whether she did or not as built I don't know for sure. However, this Navsource photo (http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/0823627.jpg) might show that feature. Look aft where her casing meets her hull. Its hard to see but there might be a degaussing set there. I can't tell if aft of that we're seeing more of the degaussing cable or her prop guard.

Hope this helps,

Robert

Rokket · « **Reply #135 on:** 29 Nov , 2011, 03:55 »

It looks like DGC to me, very pronounced, square conduit thing. It only shows aft, but really doesn't look very prop-guardey to me anyway. Nice find.

wildspear · « **Reply #136 on:** 01 Dec , 2011, 07:08 »

still working on the silversides. made a small amount of progress on some of the sail details . I still need photos, mainly of the upper fairwater. there is a shelf that has various instruments but i have no good photos of this area. i know a compass was there but im unsure what it look like and im unsure what else is there.

murphyl6 · « **Reply #137 on:** 05 Dec , 2011, 07:18 »

Not sure if you still need the info, but as per my August 1944 photo references, Silversides had a forward deck-mounted 4 inch gun and an aft deck-mounted single 20mm gun. On her sail, she had a single 20mm gun forward and a 40mm gun aft.

Cheers,

Don

Rokket · « **Reply #138 on:** 10 Dec , 2011, 00:33 »

G'day Wild.

I took these shots about 14 months ago. Unfortunately I left a gap. The empty round holder is for a TBT, just the frame. If you think comparing other boats is useful, let me know and I'll see if I took any dashboard shots of COBIA, BOWFIN, or LIONFISH.

Rokket · « **Reply #139 on:** 10 Dec , 2011, 00:34 »

Hi Murphy,

love to see those pix!

wildspear · « **Reply #140 on:** 11 Dec , 2011, 19:53 »

Quote from: rokket on 10 Dec , 2011, 00:33

G'day Wild.

I took these shots about 14 months ago. Unfortunately I left a gap. The empty round holder is for a TBT, just the frame. If you think comparing other boats is useful, let me know and I'll see if I took any dashboard shots of COBIA, BOWFIN, or LIONFISH.

If you have pic's of the other three that would be most helpful. Thanks

wildspear · « **Reply #141 on:** 30 Apr , 2012, 13:54 »

Hey all, I'm at a crossroad with my my Silversides. I haven't work on it in a bit due to the fact that I'm unhappy with how my vent holes (Limber?

) come out on the side. There really sloppy and odd shaped. I have come to the decision to redo the whole side and I was wondering if anyone had a pattern that I could use for a Gato?

Mike K · « **Reply #142 on:** 01 May , 2012, 10:37 »

Check with Mario, over at "Iron Bottom Sound". He used to have some very nice Limber Hole pattern stenciles.

Mike K.

Rokket · « **Reply #143 on:** 02 May , 2012, 06:07 »

After much no-model work, I'm finally working on my Grouper! It feels good. The stern is almost finished, and the bow too. been oil canning the main hull. had to tweak the position of my limbers. Don't think I'll do the sound heads, but if I do, it will be Iron Bottom Sound ones for sure

aptivaboy · « **Reply #144 on:** 21 Jun , 2012, 00:08 »

Rokket, If you want some accurate EB bow limbers, I can SLR up some like my aborted Hardhead ones. The main pattern should be the same, only the smaller holes would be off. Grouper should take the same ones as Guardfish. I haven't touched Hardhead or the SLR deck pieces I was working on due to pay cuts and job issues. I'm working, but its getting harder out here. Anyway, let me know and I'll see what I can do. Shapeways is being really kludgy about saying things are printable and then not printing them after you order, sadly.

Robert

Rokket · « **Reply #145 on:** 25 Jun , 2012, 03:12 »

Thanks Robert! I would take you up on that in a sec, but I've butchered my bow sooo much, what's done is done. I changed it for each resin shutter, and the damage was too much. I finally restored it, but not as nice as I'd like. But it will have to do...

wildspear · « **Reply #146 on:** 05 Aug , 2012, 12:58 »

I got my order from Mario (limber hole pattern), I'm going to attempt to make new sides out of some copper I got. I at first attempted to rework the limber holes from the kit but I didnt like the out come and I decided to scrape that and try anew......my on going silversides project....lol

On Aug 2nd, 2012 I made it back out to the USS Silversides Museum, took about 150 some odd pics all of the outside and under the deck, if any one is interested I have quite a few pics of the silversides as she is currently.

Rokket · « **Reply #147 on:** 06 Aug , 2012, 01:05 »

Copper, interesting! Keep us posted.

wildspear · « **Reply #148 on:** 06 Aug , 2012, 07:16 »

well, copper or brass.......some kind of metal. I'll throw up a pic in a little while. After I clean my garage today. Have to make room to put the jeep in there for a bushing project I need to get done.

Rokket · « **Reply #149 on:** 09 Aug , 2012, 03:21 »

well metal in general is interesting, becasue it seems like a lot of work... ?

wildspear · « **Reply #150 on:** 09 Aug , 2012, 07:56 »

We'll have to see how it turns out. I have some sheet plastic as a back up. I'm still unsure of the braces and such under the deck, that would be alot of work for little gain.

Rokket · « **Reply #151 on:** 10 Aug , 2012, 23:06 »

Yes, sometimes it's a tough decision - do the extreme detail that mostly won't be seen or matter? or go for the effect.