Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details

[NZSnowman]

Q. Tore, the large funnel under the relief valves, would it just run into the bilge?

Post number 1000 

[NZSnowman]

Quite a different topic - I have just noticed, that in the aft part of the control room, where should be located the hand wheels for the head valves of the diesel engine air induction trunk, ventilation air intake and exhaust, one of these valves - ventilation air intake is missing:

http://www.kubische-panoramen.de/index.php?id_id=5378&p=i


It looks like after installing Schnorchel, the intake of the ventilation trunk was blanked. Moreover, the foot valve closing this trunk in the diesel engine room is still in place. I suppose, it was left to allow drain the trunk after accidental flooding.
Generally, such arrangements is like ventilation system on the "Schnorchel boats" - U-Boats type XXI and XXIII.




--
Regards
Maciek

Maciek, great found! I also noted this last week when I was updating my Schnorchel drawing and was wondering what it was. I was going to ask you what it was

Hi Maciek

I not know why I forget this. Several years back I noted this and email Dani at u-historia.com. It was confirm that there is a connection between both control wheels. Updated drawings at found at
http://www.u-historia.com/uhistoria/tecnico/visitaguiada/ventilaciones/ventilaciones.htm
 

[tore]

Simon.
Coolingwater reliefvalves.
As the valve dispose only clean seawater I believe it goes into the bilge. Howewer the drain goes into a funnel at floor platelevel so when, and if it is open you can check and prevent water flushing the floorplates .
Tore

[tore]

Q. Tore, the large funnel under the relief valves, would it just run into the bilge?

Post number 1000 

Yes Simon its becoming quite a mailbox!
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Q. Tore, I am confused about the line between the CW pump and the valve

[NZSnowman]

Q. Just checking that this is this section of piping.

[tore]

Simon.
Sometimes when starting a cold engine, you want to heat it up as quickly as possible, instead of pumping calories overboard you put the calories (warm water) back to the suction side of the coolingwater. In case of a freshwatercooling like on USN submarines you would bypass the freshwatercooler but these engines have no cooling watercooler hence returning the warm seawater.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
I am a bit bewildered, the photo you are showing is the port engineattached luboilpump with reliefvalve. The purple T could very well be the thermometer pocket for the coolingwater inletpipe to the port engine corresponding to the purple bend on the stb engine.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Tore, today while researching the Lubricating Oil System I was able to workout a large part of the Cooling-water system, this includes working out the original German pipe layout and arrangement I will almost totally redraw the Cooling-water system and this will take me a few days. I will post updates soon.

[tore]

Simon
Looking forward to seeing it!
Tore

[SnakeDoc]

Hi Simon

I not know why I forget this. Several years back I noted this and email Dani at u-historia.com. It was confirm that there is a connection between both control wheels. Updated drawings at found at
http://www.u-historia.com/uhistoria/tecnico/visitaguiada/ventilaciones/ventilaciones.htm

Interesting note. Thanks for information.


--
Thanks, regards
Maciek

[dbauer]

   Very nice model! You did alot of modifying and that is great! Well done! A model is your own idea of how you want it to be!  Don't let anyone tell you otherwise!
Regards,
Dan

[NZSnowman]

I can not believe it! After spending all day looking at the Lubricating Oil System, I was working out one more original German pipe layout and arrangement 

Tore, as we know that were two inlets to the CW pumps, would there be two outlets?

[tore]

Simon
I`m not sure there are two inlets see sketch below, I believe there are two discharge outlets port and starboard ( red arrows).
Tore

[tore]

Simon
If you look at the topview engineroom arrangement you`ll find two flanged connection on the forward front of the engine on each side of the centerline of the engine, I guess that is the discharge. Towards engine room centerline (inboards) I guess you `ll see the suction inlet very low down.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Tore, from what I can workout from the Shipyard Drawings it does not seen to match the Design and Specification Books drawing.

From that I can work out there no linkage between the pump and valve 'f',but like the drawing I have added, could this be right or have I got this all worng?

[tore]

Dan
The model of KNM Kaura ex U 995 is as you remark deviating quite a bit from the conventional model kit of a VIIC. It shows one of three modified VII Cs serving in the R.Nor. Navy as from early 50s till mid 60s. The philosophy at that time was a submarine should stay submerged by means of snort most of the time, rather than take up fight with surface and air enemies. That`s why we did away with all the guns and wintergarden keeping a minimum of tower. Later we converted one of the VII Cs with a modern "sail" as well.
I rather concentrated on technical details than the weathering, brownwash and canning. The model shows the norwegian tower, details of the opened Kingstons, the difference between the saddletanks and main ballasttank no 3 kingstons, fitting the snortmast bend above the casingdeck starboard, which is missing on most snortmast models, reducing the deckcontainers, did away with the"deck winglets" located in the wintergarden area, change some of the floodgates, moved the anchor forward, change the antennas wireintake, sternlantern and a few smaller items. The major deviation details can be seen from the photo below

[NZSnowman]

Tore, I am starting to get a little lost with this layout. To help me have I mark the correct layout below?

[tore]

Simon.
I guess you can find the exhaust coolingwater outlet on the drawing by following the pipe on the photo. The pipe goes a bit aft then down almost around the exhaustmanifold and then forward to the suction line.
Tore

[tore]

Simon
Below is a sketch I made in a hurry late night my time. The blue is the suction lines, the red is the pressure lines. The red pressurelines get a reduced pressure decreasing by the distance from the pumps. The warm return coolingwater outlet from the exhaustmanifold has to be boosted by the cooling waterpump either by the enginedriven pump or the electric circulatingpump. So the return of warm water has a bit higher pressure than ordinary suction, howewer you  usually don't use all the water. You are throttling the pressure by the suctionvalve as you mix the warm water with cold seawater in order to prevent overheating. Sounds complicated? it is quite normal. Today you would have a thermostat.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Thanks Tore. Its helping. Now only 1/2 lose

I have found all the pipes but this section in red, could it be internal part of the pump/engine?

[NZSnowman]

I will draw up a colour map of my piping layout today so you can double check my layout tomorrow.

[NZSnowman]

Here is my layout and the missing pipe I can not find

From that I can see from the drawing there are two inlets and two outlet for the CW pump

[tore]

Thanks Tore. Its helping. Now only 1/2 lose

I have found all the pipes but this section in red, could it be internal part of the pump/engine?

Simon
Part of the section could of course be intergrated in th pumps suction side, howewer we should be able to trace the valve. I`m still of the opinion that the pipe  on the previous shown exhaust manifold photo is leading down between the manifold and pressurehull and entering the suctionpipe via a valve the  somewhere down. The valve should be able to control from the floorplate hight. I`ll keep looking while it is your turn to go sleeping.
Tore

[tore]

Here is my layout and the missing pipe I can not find

From that I can see from the drawing there are two inlets and two outlet for the CW pump

Simon seems to be OK.  The valve "f" is a two way valve, either shut to the cooler or to the engine supply pipe. The pipe out from the cooler has an ordinary shut off valve both are fairly close and fitted at the top of the cooler.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
One leap ahead.   On port side is a pipe ( yellow on the photo below) going vertically from below the exhaustmanifoldup to the top following the pressurehull all the way to starboard side where it enters the heatexchanger via a valve. I assume this must be the yellow pipe on the systemsketch below. Again I assume somewhere underneath the exhaustmanifold there would be a connection via  to the enginedrive coolingwaterpump via a valve.
Tore

[tore]

Simon additional photos to my last post.

[NZSnowman]

Thanks Tore. Its helping. Now only 1/2 lose

I have found all the pipes but this section in red, could it be internal part of the pump/engine?

Simon
Part of the section could of course be intergrated in th pumps suction side, howewer we should be able to trace the valve. I`m still of the opinion that the pipe  on the previous shown exhaust manifold photo is leading down between the manifold and pressurehull and entering the suctionpipe via a valve the  somewhere down. The valve should be able to control from the floorplate hight. I`ll keep looking while it is your turn to go sleeping.
Tore

Tore, were you able to find valve 'f'?

[tore]

Simon.
I have not found any valve on that part of the pipeline.May be it is intergrated in the pumpcasing, but anyhow we should be able to see the wheel handle. I`m still looking.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Tore, this morning I was able to track/trace the outlets for the CW pump. The shape and the layout of the pipe suggest two outlets and two inlets for this pump.

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
One leap ahead.   On port side is a pipe ( yellow on the photo below) going vertically from below the exhaustmanifoldup to the top following the pressurehull all the way to starboard side where it enters the heatexchanger via a valve. I assume this must be the yellow pipe on the systemsketch below. Again I assume somewhere underneath the exhaustmanifold there would be a connection via  to the enginedrive coolingwaterpump via a valve.
Tore

Tore, is the heat exchanger in U-995 original German? As I have never seen anything like this in any war-time photo's.

[tore]

Simon
Colingwater outlets.
 The outlets looks fine to me
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
One leap ahead.   On port side is a pipe ( yellow on the photo below) going vertically from below the exhaustmanifold up to the top following the pressurehull all the way to starboard side where it enters the heatexchanger via a valve. I assume this must be the yellow pipe on the systemsketch below. Again I assume somewhere underneath the exhaustmanifold there would be a connection via  to the enginedrive cooling waterpump via a valve.
Tore

Tore, is the heat exchanger in U-995 original German? As I have never seen anything like this in any war-time photo's.

Simon.
One leap ahead.   On port side is a pipe ( yellow on the photo below) going vertically from below the exhaustmanifold up to the top following the pressurehull all the way to starboard side where it enters the heatexchanger via a valve. I assume this must be the yellow pipe on the systemsketch below. Again I assume somewhere underneath the exhaustmanifold there would be a connection via  to the enginedrive cooling waterpump via a valve.
Tore

Tore, is the heat exchanger in U-995 original German? As I have never seen anything like this in any war-time photo's.

Simon
Heathexchanger.
I believe it is the original. It is really a straight forward oldfashioned tube heatexchanger  not the modern plate exchanger used today.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Very good Simon!
As far as I remember the floorplates were fixed by countersinked screws, I am no100 % sure. Anyhow the plates were fixed, imagine the rattling produced by loose plates.
Tore

"countersinked screws" would match the style the Germans used to fixed the metal cover on the deck. I can imagine the rattling produced by loose plates plus the noise of the plates jumping around while a depth charging would not be good

Also this morning I was able to work out the width of the floor in the forward part engine room from original German drawing Tore can you remember roughly how big a single floor plate was. Were they all the same size or different sizes? I imagine they were small enough for a single person to remove them or did it take two people to remove them?

[tore]

Simon
Floorplates.
I really can`t remember excactly, howewer I believe they were of different sizes but could be handled by one man.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon
Floorplates.
I really can`t remember excactly, howewer I believe they were of different sizes but could be handled by one man.
Tore

This is what I was thinking This would make the must sense. I will workout the sizes of the plates base on that valves below them.

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
One leap ahead.   On port side is a pipe ( yellow on the photo below) going vertically from below the exhaustmanifold up to the top following the pressurehull all the way to starboard side where it enters the heatexchanger via a valve. I assume this must be the yellow pipe on the systemsketch below. Again I assume somewhere underneath the exhaustmanifold there would be a connection via  to the enginedrive cooling waterpump via a valve.
Tore

Tore, is the heat exchanger in U-995 original German? As I have never seen anything like this in any war-time photo's.

Simon.
One leap ahead.   On port side is a pipe ( yellow on the photo below) going vertically from below the exhaustmanifold up to the top following the pressurehull all the way to starboard side where it enters the heatexchanger via a valve. I assume this must be the yellow pipe on the systemsketch below. Again I assume somewhere underneath the exhaustmanifold there would be a connection via  to the enginedrive cooling waterpump via a valve.
Tore

Tore, is the heat exchanger in U-995 original German? As I have never seen anything like this in any war-time photo's.

Simon
Heathexchanger.
I believe it is the original. It is really a straight forward oldfashioned tube heatexchanger  not the modern plate exchanger used today.
Tore

Tore, I started relooking at the heat exchanger, and something does not add up. I believe the heat exchanger is original but it not in its original location.
 
If we look at a few things:

• The current location of the heat exchanger look messy to me, it not the normal good German engineering we see throughout the boat.
• We can see a copper pipe, and we know that there is no original copper piping in the engine room.
• The red handle looks recent and not an old German style.
• The valve itself also looks recent not an old German style.
• The layout of the current piping to the heat exchanger also look not like the normal German engineering we see throughout the boat. Why did they run the piping up the pressure hull over the flooring and then back down. This is almost the longest distance to get to the heat exchanger. Why did they not just run the piping under the floor like all the other pipes

[tore]

Simon.
You are touching upon something which for long has been in the back of my mind.
1.  I cannot remember this arrangement. Well that doesn`t mean too much.
2.  If you remember in June we had a discussion, Maciek, Christopher, you and me about the purifier and the horizontal port small circulatingpump not shown on any 
     pipescheme we couldn't`t figure out  what was the use of the pump.
3.  I launched the idea it was installed later even after my time.
If you add that up to your new ideas and include that this pump is indeed connected to the strange crossover to the starboard heatexchanger I believe we are on a track worth while to follow.
I`ll check further details today on that theory.
Tore
           

[SnakeDoc]

Hi Gents

U 864 type IXD2.

For those who might be interested. The Norwegian authorities has estimated the cost of rising the submarine to be approximately 1.5 billion NOK equivalent to US

[tore]

Maciek.
U 864 final days is a fascinating story illustrating the last hard times of the german submarine service at the end of WW2. Books are written on the subject.
She left Kiel just after  having schnorkel installed, ran aground in Norway, was bombed in the submarine pen in Bergen while repairing and was training the crew on schnorkeling just along the south western coast of Norway prior to departure for Japan. During those trials one of her engine started to misfire and they decided to return to Bergen for repairs. At that moment the hydrophone operator of HMS Venturer, which had been despatched for a hunt on U 864, heard some funny engine noises which he mistook for a semidiesel of a fishingvessel. U 864 apparently navigated too long by the periscope and was spotted by HMS Venturer. U 864 realizing they were spotted started to zigzag. HMS Venturer decided to fire her 4 torpedoes programming it for a 3 D pattern fairly unproven. U 864 heard the torpedoes were launched stop schnorkeling and went deep, avoiding 3 of the torpedoes, howewer the 4th had a hit  and U 864 imploded. It is claimed to be the first sinking of a submerged submarine by another submerged submarine ever. There are better and more accurate reports on the net, this only a brief incomplete story based on my memory.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
I am almost convinced the heatexchanger and port circulationpump is a modification possibly made after my time. I guess the handle of the water handpump was a modification which was necessary as the wooden handle came in conflict with the vertical copperpipe. We still haven`t localized the luboil purifier which is supposed to be hooked up to the heatexchanger. It is all very odd. I`m busy with the details of the coolingwater/ luboil system under the floorplates and shall possibly need a couple of days before I have some details on the subject.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
I am almost convinced the heatexchanger and port circulationpump is a modification possibly made after my time. I guess the handle of the water handpump was a modification which was necessary as the wooden handle came in conflict with the vertical copperpipe. We still haven`t localized the luboil purifier which is supposed to be hooked up to the heatexchanger. It all very odd. I`m busy with the details of the coolingwater/ luboil system under the floorplates and shall possibly need a couple of days before I have some details on the subject.
Tore

Yes, very odd!!!

I am working on the exhaust cooling water outlet this morning trying to track it as far as possible.

[NZSnowman]

Tore, what does this handle open?

[NZSnowman]

Tore, good news This morning I was able workout one more original arrangement for the Cooling Water System. I was able to add the line between the diesel engine and LO Cooler. I am yet to locate the pressure gage or thermometer.

I have also added the Relief valves, the lines to the Relief valve and funnels. Did you noted that the Relief valves at not in the same locates on the port and starboard side.


Fig. 1. Cooling Water System.


Fig. 2. I love pipes 

[SnakeDoc]

Hi Simon

Tore, what does this handle open?

It looks like handle for remote operation of the valve in the fuel line.


--
Regards
Maciek

[tore]

Tore, what does this handle open?

It looks like handle for remote operation of the valve in the fuel line.


--
Regards
Maciek

Simon.
I guess you found the handle for the shut off valve of the return cooling water from the starboard exhaustmanifold.    Maciek is of course right the handle has a fuelvalve shape, but there are no fuel oilpipes in this area and as we have seen before handles have been mixed. The excellent photo of Maciek shows a valve and a pipe located where the coolingwater return bend should be. As far as I can see, you`ll not find this extension on the port side, you find a similar valve at the end of the pipe leading to the strange port circulationpump . I guess this support of theory that the circulation system has been cut in the original system and installed later.
Tore

[SnakeDoc]

Tore,

U 864 final days is a fascinating story illustrating the last hard times of the german submarine service at the end of WW2. Books are written on the subject.
[...]
U 864 apparently navigated too long by the periscope and was spotted by HMS Venturer. U 864 realizing they were spotted started to zigzag. HMS Venturer decided to fire her 4 torpedoes programming it for a 3 D pattern fairly unproven. U 864 heard the torpedoes were launched stop schnorkeling and went deep, avoiding 3 of the torpedoes, howewer the 4th had a hit  and U 864 imploded.

Well, there are a lot of books written based on post-action reports. But these are taken without any criticism. For example, almost everyone say, that U864 was spotted becuase of exposed periscope (at distance 3200 yds = 2900 m !). Most likely, first was spotted snorkel head. There is also said, that commander of U864 realized, that he is followed by enemy and started to make these slight zig-zags (about 10 deg at each side) - would the commander take such action instead of switching electric motors and going below periscope depth? I would rather say, U864 was going with zig-zag course, and that the zig-zag pattern was recognized after some time of plotting. I also doubt about evasive maneuver - I don't think that hydrophone operator was able to hear incoming torpedoes while snorkeling.
Interestind discussion can be found here:
http://www.rnsubs.co.uk/Community/Forum/index.php/topic,3564.0.html


--
Regards
Maciek

[NZSnowman]

Tore, what does this handle open?

It looks like handle for remote operation of the valve in the fuel line.


--
Regards
Maciek

Simon.
I guess you found the handle for the shut off valve of the return cooling water from the starboard exhaustmanifold.    Maciek is of course right the handle has a fuelvalve shape, but there are no fuel oilpipes in this area and as we have seen before handles have been mixed. The excellent photo of Maciek shows a valve and a pipe located where the coolingwater return bend should be. As far as I can see, you`ll not find this extension on the port side, you find a similar valve at the end of the pipe leading to the strange port circulationpump . I guess this support of theory that the circulation system has been cut in the original system and installed later.
Tore

Thanks Maciek for the great photo!
 
Tore, I have a photo of the handle from the other side. I am also happy that you think this is the shut off valve of the return cooling water from the starboard exhaust manifold, as I was hoping it was.

[tore]

Maciek.
I just had a brief look at Community Forum and are astonished about what people know and discuss. I agree there are a lot of details which don`t match in all the stories on U 864. The basic is the U 864 had a schnorchel installed just before she left the yard in Germany. They spent 4 days sailing to Norway included grounding in Farsund area. She was in the Bergen submarine pen during an air raid where dambusters were used, one penetrated the roof. Just after the bergenrepair they decided to train the crew in schnorcheling prior to the departure to Japan, thus inexperienced crew doing exercises on schnorchelling off the Norwegian coast. I agree that the schnorchel mast is the first thing to be spotted rather than periscope. The theory on seasickness and zig zacking while schnorchelling I have never heard of. The talks and theories about supercharger is  strange and not worth to comment.
I guess U 864 was exercising the inexperienced crew on schnorchelling, the noise picked up by the sonar of HMS Venturer, probably not experienced in diesel sound while training schnorchelling ( they would not use the engine with a failure). They had decided to return to Bergen for engine repair. The supercharger should not be used while schnorchelling. I believe they had stopped schnorchelling, still submerged switched to E-motors, took the usual sweep by the sonar and realised they were spotted started zigzagging heard the torpedoes were coming and  crash dived deep. This is my theory, but take it with a grain of salt, I have not read any reports on the sinking.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
Another leap  ahead, but a lot to go. Progressing every day.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
 While checking the pipesystems today I believe I have discovered a difference between the normal systemsketch and the actual cooling water pipelayout. The warm cooling waterpipe pipe from the exhaustmanifold does not lead directly to the heatexchanger nor to the pump inletpipe but to the main coolingwater crossoverpipe and enters just before the filter after the gatevalve. See systemsketch below ( I have only shown the port side). This means that the water is mixing in the crossoverpipe, if it should be used for the heatexchanger they would need an unmixed supply for the engine I don`t believe it matters if you mix it in the main supplyline or at the pump inletpipe.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
 While checking the pipesystems today I believe I have discovered a difference between the normal systemsketch and the actual cooling water pipelayout. The warm cooling waterpipe pipe from the exhaustmanifold does not lead directly to the heatexchanger nor to the pump inletpipe but to the main coolingwater crossoverpipe and enters just before the filter after the gatevalve. See systemsketch below ( I have only shown the port side). This means that the water is mixing in the crossoverpipe, if it should be used for the heatexchanger they would need an unmixed supply for the engine I don`t believe it matters if you mix it in the main supplyline or at the pump inletpipe.
Tore

Tore, do you think this change is German or Norwegian?

[tore]

Simon
I believe  the original yarddrawings are the to be followed. It seems to me there is a change in the lay out design at a certain time. The superstructure changed all the times why should`t the interior be refined based on experience as well. It still puzzles me the we have got the type, make and capacity of the purifier, but we haven`t seen the trace of it in any of the drawings available. I am sure we shall find out sooner or later as before.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Tore, you may find this useful, its the outline of the floor in the engine room.

[tore]

Simon.
This is pretty much as it should be. I am just wandering how it looks when all the other piping is drawn in .
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Tore, here a small test example of the floor plating between the two engines, does it look Ok?

[tore]

Simon.
 This is just the way I remember it!
Tore

[tore]

The more I  study drawings and pictures the more I am fascinated by the developments and changes to the VII Cs, howewer it is not so easy time fix the various changes. Right now I am investigating when various changes in the engineroom. 
 The dieselengines were originally direct reversible. At a certain point this was changed into a non reversible version. This is clearly visible on photos  when the vertically fitted reversing cylinder at the maneuvering stand is removed. Does anybody have information when the change was done.
The most common way of maneuvering submarines were by the E-motors. The German navy preferred to have maneuvering by diesels for quite a time. It required a fairly large complication to the diesels, was slow and used a lot of air. I never understood why they had such engines.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Sorry, just more pipes

Tore, added the new exhaust to crossover pipe.

[tore]

Simon.
I believe the system so far is OK. Quite a reseach lays behind this layout as the system deviate considerably from the available systemsketches which I guess are from the early 40 ties. Your layout is more as the U 1308 would look like I should say. But there are more spaghetti to be put in the bowl!
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
I believe the system so far is OK. Quite a reseach lays behind this layout as the system deviate considerably from the available systemsketches which I guess are from the early 40 ties. Your layout is more as the U 1308 would look like I should say. But there are more spaghetti to be put in the bowl!
Tore

Imagine what it looks like under the floor in the Control Room

[tore]

Simon.
The engineroom space under the foorplates is deeper and the stack of pipes on top of each other are higher . The physical topview would be a challenge to read and the sideview possibly a bigger challenge to draw.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
I hope to have my suggestions for the revised aux coolingwater details as well as the luboil ready by tonight. We shall have deviations from the systemsketches here as well I am afraid.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Auxiliary Cooling Water Pump

[NZSnowman]

Auxiliary Lubricating Oil Pump Drain Valves

[tore]

Simon.
Looks fine to me.  I haven`t checked, but it migth be it is funnel and  connection the to collectingtank as you would`t like to drain lube-or fueloil directly into the bilge. 
Tore

[tore]

Auxiliary Cooling Water Pump

Simon.
The aux coolingwater pump looks fine as well. I don`t know if you want at this point to introduce the connection to the handcoolingpump,suction connection to the fuelcollecting tank and anticorrosion cock. In that case it is only the connection from the valvechest to the E-room which remains before the whole system is ready.
Tore

[tore]

Emergency luboilpump/ fuel transferpump.
Simon very wisely introduced above two drainvalves into the aux. luboil/ fueltransfer pumpsystem. As some might have noticed it is  unusual to have two drainvalves placed in such a way. The reason would be that this pump is handling both lubeoil and fueloil and you wouldn`t have any residue of the other in the pump when shifting to another fluid.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
Looks fine to me.  I haven`t checked, but it migth be it is funnel and  connection the to collectingtank as you would`t like to drain lube-or fueloil directly into the bilge. 
Tore

Tore, a very good point! I check plate 9 and it looks like there a hose thread connection on the end of the valves.

[NZSnowman]

Auxiliary Cooling Water Pump

Simon.
The aux coolingwater pump looks fine as well. I don`t know if you want at this point to introduce the connection to the handcoolingpump,suction connection to the fuelcollecting tank and anticorrosion cock. In that case it is only the connection from the valvechest to the E-room which remains before the whole system is ready.
Tore

Tore, suction line to the hand cooling pump. Could not found the original German alignment for this line, so best guess :-)   


Fig. 2. Below floor.


Fig. 2. Above floor.

[tore]

Simon.
Handcooling pump pipe.
This is not far away from what it should be. I guess there were slight deviations between the various boats. When I, after a couple of years on U 995  KNM Kaura, changed to U 926 KNM Kya, I noticed very much the differences, so I guess you have some play margins.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
Handcooling pump pipe.
This is not far away from what it should be. I guess there were slight deviations between the various boats. When I, after a couple of years on U 995  KNM Kaura, changed to U 1202 KNM Kya, I noticed very much the differences, so I guess you have some play margins.
Tore

That very interesting, I would not imagine there was much different. I would had believe all the pipes and valves were in the identical places.

[tore]

Simon.
Correction KNM Kya was U 926. I seems to remember the   U 926 KNM Kya and U 995 KNM Kaura had relatively small differences,  the U 1202 KNM Kinn  was a bit more different from U 995. All three built at different yards in 1943.
U 995 was built at Blohm & Voss, Hamburg, U 926 was built at Neptun Werft Rostock AG  and U 1202 at F.S. Schichau Werft, Danzig.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
It strikes me that all the wooden handles on the handpumps of U 995 have been removed. The pumps were of the old fashioned type having a fairly large wooden handle a indicated on the sketch below.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Hi Tore

All this well down here in the Southern Hemisphere, just needed a break from drawing and also needed to catchup on so other work.

Boatyards should be reopen next week.

Simon

[tore]

Simon
Good to hear! Lucky you in the Southern Hemisphere having summer. Here right now, snow and freezing - 20 Centigrades. The surveyor is ready for the reopening of the yard.
Tore 

[NZSnowman]

Hi Tore

Just a question about pipe sizes. I would had thought that the low pressure feed to the Hand LO pump (Purple Arrow) would be larger then the return (Green Arrow) from the Hand LO pump.

[NZSnowman]

Fig. 1. Below deck.


Fig. 2. Above deck.

[tore]

Hi Tore

Just a question about pipe sizes. I would had thought that the low pressure feed to the Hand LO pump (Purple Arrow) would be larger then the return (Green Arrow) from the Hand LO pump.

Hi Simon.
Luboil system.
The purple pipe is only the suction pipe to the handpump whereas the green pipe is the main supply from the electrically driven aux luboilpump as well as the discharge pipe from the handpump. The green pipe has to be fullsize mainengine luboilsupplypipe. The handpump is only a primingpump f.i. when turning the engine during maintenance etc.
Tore

[tore]

Simon
Luboil system
Further to my remark on the hand lub oilpump, I guess you shall find the dischargepipe from the hand pump has a smaller diameter until it enters the pipeline from the aux. luboil pump to the distributionchest port and starboard main engine system.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
The aux. luboil pump suction pipes from the luboil system and storagetanks seems OK to me.
Tore
 

[NZSnowman]

Simon
Luboil system
Further to my remark on the hand lub oilpump, I guess you shall find the dischargepipe from the hand pump has a smaller diameter until it enters the pipeline from the aux. luboil pump to the distributionchest port and starboard main engine system.
Tore

Tore, just checking are you talking about this section of pipeing (Orange smaller diameter & Red larger diameter pipes)?

[tore]

Simon.
Yes this is the system . In addition you have of course the other small diameter pipes taking hand pump suction from the luboil storagetanks port and starboard as shown on the sketch below.
tore

[NZSnowman]

Update of Cooling Water Piping

• Corrected piping alignment.
• Remove red painted handles.

[tore]

Simon.
 Looks fine, you have probably the seaweedblowing on another layer.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Fig. 1. Below deck.


Fig. 2. Above deck.

Breaking the laws of physics! 

Just realise that the pipe going to the oil tanks were occupying the same space as a cooling water pipe so I have fixed the alignment.

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
 Looks fine, you have probably the seaweedblowing on another layer.
Tore

Have yet to add this layer (seaweed blowing) to the drawing, for some reason I have been putting it off 

[NZSnowman]

Updated lines to and from LO Hand Pump

• Corrected the diameter of the piping.
• Corrected pipe alignment around the LO Hand Pump.
• Corrected pipe alignment to LO Tanks.

[tore]

Simon
This pipe lay out should work. The distribution chest midship ( luboil to port and starboard engines) is a nightmare of pipes stacked on top of each other. It shall be  a challenge to accommodate the dischargepipe from the aux. luboil pump into this crows nest.
Tore

[tore]

Luboil handpump suction from storage tanks.
I am not 100% sure, but I assume the smaller suctionpipes of the handpumps connects to the main suction pipes from port and starboard storagetanks somewhere before the two portside valves shown on the picture below, the two small suctionpipes goes to the stb and comes up underneath the black table (driptray) just below the handpump. I guess you should find the changeovercock ( port/stb storagetanks) right under the table as well.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Tore, here my estimate (in red) of the suction lines from the post & starboard to the LO Hand Pump with valve

[tore]

Simon.
I guess the chief pipelayout engineer would have approved this . Just a maintenance remark, the gatevalve in the seawater crossover pipe has to have access for being removed. I haven`t seen the sideview drawing, but just be aware that nuts and bolts need space when being removed, so place the pipeconnections bearing that in mind.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
I guess the chief pipelayout engineer would have approved this . Just a maintenance remark, the gatevalve in the seawater crossover pipe has to have access for being removed. I haven`t seen the sideview drawing, but just be aware that nuts and bolts need space when being removed, so place the pipeconnections bearing that in mind.
Tore

Hi Tore

This morning while realigning the pipes that runs to the LO tanks around the gate valves in the seawater crossover pipe I noted they wrong. I previously believe these pipes went over the cooler, but they run under the cooler. Below are the update drawings.

Q1. How often would you need to remove or have need access to the gate valve in the seawater crossover pipe?

Q2. Would the handle be removed on valve

[tore]

Simon.
This is better. Gatevalves are very reliable and for routine maintenance I would estimate 6 years between each dismantling, however the rule is that for essential valves you should be able to open up and repair whenever nessecary. the C2 handle is removable and would cause no problem..
Tore

[tore]

Simon
Luboil filters.
Knife filters previously discussed.
Your question of today. The  knife filters are not only fuelfilters, but are sometimes used for finer  filtration of luboil. On the picture below you see a larger modern filter having an electric motor on the top doing the rotation. In the case of marine execution in the 1940 years I guess this would be carried out by a handle on the top.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon
Luboil filters.
Knife filters previously discussed.
Your question of today. The  knife filters are not only fuelfilters, but are sometimes used for finer  filtration of luboil. On the picture below you see a larger modern filter having an electric motor on the top doing the rotation. In the case of marine execution in the 1940 years I guess this would be carried out by a handle on the top.
Tore

Thanks Tore.

I was just looking on the net to see that a filter look like

[NZSnowman]

Simon
Luboil filters.
Knife filters previously discussed.
Your question of today. The  knife filters are not only fuelfilters, but are sometimes used for finer  filtration of luboil. On the picture below you see a larger modern filter having an electric motor on the top doing the rotation. In the case of marine execution in the 1940 years I guess this would be carried out by a handle on the top.
Tore

Here my 3^rd review of this pipe Putting in the piping to the filters now.

[NZSnowman]

Tore, on Plate 14: Engine lubricating oil system, what is symbol over the filter? Is it a collecting funnel symbol?

http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate9.htm

[tore]

Simon.
I guess the symbol over the finefilter is a differential pressuregauge. The gauge measure the pressure in the pipeline before and after the filter thus  indicating the resistance and when the filter has to be cleaned. 
Tore

[tore]

Simon
Luboil filters.
Knife filters previously discussed.
Your question of today. The  knife filters are not only fuelfilters, but are sometimes used for finer  filtration of luboil. On the picture below you see a larger modern filter having an electric motor on the top doing the rotation. In the case of marine execution in the 1940 years I guess this would be carried out by a handle on the top.
Tore

Here my 3^rd review of this pipe Putting in the piping to the filters now.

Simon.
Looks promising. a good thing you are colourmarking the pipes!
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
I guess the symbol over the finefilter is a differential pressuregauge. The gauge measure the pressure in the pipeline before and after the filter thus  indicating the resistance and when the filter has to be cleaned. 
Tore

Thank Tore.

I thought they were pressure gauges. They must be under the decking next to filter?

[NZSnowman]

Simon
Luboil filters.
Knife filters previously discussed.
Your question of today. The  knife filters are not only fuelfilters, but are sometimes used for finer  filtration of luboil. On the picture below you see a larger modern filter having an electric motor on the top doing the rotation. In the case of marine execution in the 1940 years I guess this would be carried out by a handle on the top.
Tore

Here my 3^rd review of this pipe Putting in the piping to the filters now.

Simon.
Looks promising. a good thing you are colourmarking the pipes!
Tore

The piping around the LO filters would be the most complex I have drawn!
 
Its hard to get it to fit around all the other LO Piping and then the Cooling water piping

[tore]

Simon
In addition we have still smaller pipes to gauges, drains etc waiting for you. Just think about the poor people who had  to maintain the various components.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
Filtergauges.
I cannot see the differential gauges on the manometerpanel so I guess if you place the gauges under the floorplating it would be OK.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Tore, here a sneak preview. Will finish it tomorrow, off to bed now
 
How does the filters look liker?

[tore]

Simon
While we are on the luboilfilter. The filters should be able to be drained for impurities. Hopefully you should be able localize a drainpipe with valve (cock) to the collecting tank.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
Luboilpiping.
Your new piping layout seems to be your normal high standard. I`ll  have a closer look at it during the day.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
Luboil piping/filter.
I have checked you last lay out and believe everything is fine. I am impressed by the way you are able to squeeze in the aux. luboilpump dischargepipe. A small remark as to the cover of the luboil filter. You have generously fitted the cover of the casing with 16 bolts, I guess 8 would do. I believe the casing would be tested with some 6 bar and the relief valve would open at 4, so remember the poor maintenance fellows. Looking forward to see the complete system, must be impressive.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
Differential manometer luboilfilter.
I just checked a photo of the instrument panel on the engine page of u historia. If you look at that photo you`ll find a manometer marked 3 and on the nameplate it says . Schmier

[NZSnowman]

Tore, great spotting on the pressure gauges, you can trace the piping down to the filters http://www.360cities.net/image/submarine-u-995-machine-room#333.75,7.18,38.9

[TopherVIIC]

Wonderful find Simon! You have  a good eye!

[NZSnowman]

Sorry, just more pipes

Tore, added the new exhaust to crossover pipe.

Tore, I just noted that the pipe colour code for the cooling water to the E Room/Torpedo Room is worng, it should be Green-Yellow-Green not Green-Violet-Green.

[NZSnowman]

Tore, where is the yellow line in real life? Does it run on top to the engine?


I was able to find the orange line

[NZSnowman]

A small remark as to the cover of the luboil filter. You have generously fitted the cover of the casing with 16 bolts, I guess 8 would do. I believe the casing would be tested with some 6 bar and the relief valve would open at 4, so remember the poor maintenance fellows.

 

[NZSnowman]

Tore, here today update.

I also was able to corrected the openings into the OL Tanks.

[tore]

Simon.
3 bar luboil supply to servo.
A good question. I would have thought the supplypipe runs below the floorplating inboard. However if you see the pipeconnection on the servo it looks as if the pipe enters the servo from outboard. I have not been able to trace the pipe along the engine for sure. May be you have more pictures to check.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
Orange luboilpipe.
Yes this is the pump bypassline with shut of valve.  The other end should connect to the 3 bar servo supply which seems to go  inboard as I thought, but it still does not match the connection to the servo coming from outboard.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
Your last updated drawing.
Now you are entering into the small pipe stuff where the sky is the limit,   the manometer pipes are OK.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
Your last updated drawing.
Now you are entering into the small pipe stuff where the sky is the limit,   the manometer pipes are OK.
Tore

Thinking about adding the spider webs next 

[tore]

Watch out  don`t get caught in the web.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
3 bar luboil supply servo.
I am happy you found the supply pipe going on the outboard side of the engine. Your suggested revised systemsketch is of course according to you find. I have below indicated how I guess the details of the servo might be. After the branch off to the Roots blower bearings, I guess they enter on both sides, the supply pipe enter the servo as shown on the drawing. The two drainpipes runs from the servo separately ( not to have any pressure interference) and join further the maindrain from the blower before entering the systemtank valvechest and into the tank.The oil from the servo is not contaminated so I don`t believe it enters the dirty oil tank.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

• Added the missing Engine lubricating oil inlet pipe to the manifold.

[tore]

Simon
The maintance staff would thank you for the new luboil filtercover and are happy you have some 75 cm between the floorplate and gatevalve of the coolingwater crossoverpipe under the valvechest.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Tore, are the blue highlighted areas the sea water cooling pipes within the exhaust?

[NZSnowman]

Tore, I noted that on U-995 and the shipyard drawings there is a release valve for the cooling water at the end of the exhaust pipe. However, it not marked on the Design and Specification Book, plate 13. Do you think the release valve was added to the system sometime after 1940?

http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate13.htm

[tore]

Simon
Exhaust coolingwater.
I don`t think so Simon. I`ll check and see if I can figure out this.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
I guess the reliefvalve of the exhaust manifold was installed on schnorchel boats. We had a few times experiences while schnorchelling that the relief valve opened as a consequence of dipping the mast and the exhaust backpressure became excessive. The engine room was filled with black unpleasant exhaust.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
I guess the reliefvalve of the exhaust manifold was installed on schnorchel boats. We had a few times experiences while schnorchelling that the relief valve opened as a consequence of dipping the mast and the exhaust backpressure became excessive. The engine room was filled with black unpleasant exhaust.
Tore

Thanks Tore. I thought the relief valve was for the cooling water.

[tore]

Simon
Main engine exhaust manifold.
The crossection drawing shows engine looking towards the forward end , see drawing below, the reversing cylinder up front is removed on the later engines. There are no indications of any objects or restriction flanges towards aft and I can not see any reason why such restricton in exhaust manifold diameter should be justified.
If you look at the photo below showing the forward exhaust manifold endcover there are two reasons why this is not the main endcover, only 6 small fixing bolts whereas on the exhaust manifold flanges you have 12 fairly sizeable bolts, there is obviously a large hole in the cover for the reliefvalve. Based on this my assumption would be the shown forward endcover is just a protection cover and behind is the cast double wall cooled end dome being the real cover. In the end dome is an inspectioncover having a smaller diameter than the  exhaust manifold and the drawing shows this inspection cover.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Tore, just double checking, the exhaust manifold is double wall with the cooling run in the outer ring?

[tore]

Simon.
The exhaustmanifold is casted like a double wall pipe and  the coolingwater flows between the outer and inner walls, at the forward end piece I guess the casting could make a double bottom, like a bottom of a glass thermo bottle. In this bottomplate is the inspection opening having a smaller inspection plate. A possible alternative could be that an uncooled steelplate is just flanged to the manifold, that plate would have a smaller inspection opening covered by a steelplate. The outer visible plate with smaller bolts provide a heatprotection.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
The exhaustmanifold is casted like a double wall pipe the coolingwater flows between the outer and inner walls, at the forward end piece I guess the casting makes a double bottom, like a bottom of a glass thermo bottle. In this bottomplate is the inspection opening having a smaller inspection plate. The outer plate with smaller bolts provide a heatprotection.
Tore

All make sense now
I had been imagining it was the other ways round
What was why I been asking all these questions about the exhaust manifold, as I could not get my head around it

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
That may be.  I think I have seen a drawing of the compensating box in the bottom of the saddletank. See below,  I made a rough pencil sketch indicating where to look for it you have more materials to look into than me.
Tore

This could be that pipe on the U-534

Simon. Interesting detail, it certainly could be the box, I only miss the pipe out of the box. The idea was to have a buffer preventing contamination into the compensating system. Howewer the most important pipe for that was the fueloil venting pipe  which ended some 10 cm from the bottom of the ballast/fueltank. When fuelling, the ventcock was open and a guy watched the water coming out and stopped the fuelling when he discovered fuel coming out, but as the pipe ended 10 cm above the tankbottom you could never force fuel into the compensatingpipe as the fuel was flowing through the ventpipe leaving some 10 cm of water in the tankbottom saving the compensating system. This was  before pollution and environment questions was a topic. Anyhow see to it that your fuel ventingpipe is not leading all the way to the bottom
Tore

Simon.
Compensating expansionbox.
As to my yesterdays post I have given it a second thought. I believe the device and connecting pipe on the picture is too small for being the box. Estmating the capacity of the tank to be some 12 tonnes of fuel I guess it should have a volume about 150-200 liters ( almost an oilbarrel).
Tore

Tore, I was thinking about the small box shape at the bottom of the saddle tank and next to the pressure hull could it be the echo sounder?

[tore]

Simon.
Echosounder
I don`t know the details of a IXC very well, but this is an unusual place for a echosounder, I really could not say for sure what the "box" is.
Tore

[SnakeDoc]

Tore, I was thinking about the small box shape at the bottom of the saddle tank and next to the pressure hull could it be the echo sounder?

I'll check in the evening, but as I remember, echo-sounding transmitters and receivers were located rather near the keel. Hard to say what it can be...


--
Regards
Maciek

[NZSnowman]

Updated exhaust manifold

[tore]

Simon.
As usual everything looks very good. I am a bit doubtful to the exposed manifold flanges. If I remember well they were covered by asbestos!!cushions and protected by an steelsheet plate, see yarddrawing. The reason for That is the uncooled bare flanges gets very hot and a possible bursted HP fuelpipe might squirt fuel hitting the flange which immediately ignites.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
As usual everything looks very good. I am a bit doubtful to the exposed manifold flanges. If I remember well they were covered by asbestos!!cushions and protected by an steelsheet plate, see yarddrawing. The reason for That is the uncooled bare flanges gets very hot and a possible bursted HP fuelpipe might squirt fuel hitting the flange which immediately ignites.
Tore

Thanks, Tore.

I will update my drawing.

[SnakeDoc]

Hi,

Tore, I was thinking about the small box shape at the bottom of the saddle tank and next to the pressure hull could it be the echo sounder?

I'll check in the evening, but as I remember, echo-sounding transmitters and receivers were located rather near the keel. Hard to say what it can be...

Eberhard R

[NZSnowman]

Hi,

Tore, I was thinking about the small box shape at the bottom of the saddle tank and next to the pressure hull could it be the echo sounder?

I'll check in the evening, but as I remember, echo-sounding transmitters and receivers were located rather near the keel. Hard to say what it can be...

Eberhard R

[NZSnowman]

Tore, I am no expert but this look like a U-boat LO Purifier?

[tore]

Simon
I just was going to post the same assumption. Macieks find that there are sender and receiver at different locations in the saddle fuel/ballasttanks strongly indicate this is indeed the echosounder. As there are two similar boxes at different places make this more probable  than a possible deviation from the location mention in the book. Below is the pictures of the two locations, to me it looks like port side just aft of the controlroom and starboard side of the engine room based on my VIIC ideas. .
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
Purifier.
Your picture could very well be a purifiermodule.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Hi Tore

Not part of the Engine Room, but part of the Cooling-water system, I found the Hull valve in the E. Room 

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
Purifier.
Your picture could very well be a purifiermodule.
Tore

 

I found it on U-505

http://archive.msichicago.org/exhibit/U505/virtualtour/vr_tour/movie_diesel.html

[tore]

Simon
As I said I am not at all conversant with the IXC so you have to take everything from me with a pinch of salt on that subject. Anyhow I am convinced it is the echosounder.
Tore

[tore]

Simon
Purifier.
As you see it is a fairly sizeable piece of equipment I believe you can see the waterheater fitted on the module as well. You certainly would have seen it in the engine room.  It just confirms that on later VIICs and VIIC/41 they did away with the purifier and installed better filters instead.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon
Purifier.
As you see it is a fairly sizeable piece of equipment...
Tore

I imagine it was one of the weight-saving they found between the Type VIIC and the VIIC/41. They were able to make the VIIC/41 11.5 tons lighter, which they later put back in the pressure hull.

[tore]

Simon.
That could be, but I am pretty sure our two VIICs U 926 and U 1202 did not have the purifier as well.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
That could be, but I am pretty sure our two VIICs U 926 and U 1202 did not have the purifier as well.
Tore

Hi Tore,

I was not meaning the changes were only for the Type VIIC/41's and I am sure the late war VIIC's got as many of the update also.

Tore, when do you think they started to removing the reversing cylinder? It must be sometime after 43??

I have noted a huge different in the layout of the forward end of the engine between the engines with and without the reversing cylinder. I been using the wrong layout (with a reversing cylinder) So I will need to charge my drawing around.

[NZSnowman]

I could not help myself, I had to add a little more detail to the drawing. Check out the new fuel filter markings

[tore]

Simon
Based upon my experience with our 3 VIICs-VIIC/41 I would imagine  your had  major changes in the uboats delivered from the yards as from July 1943. U 995 our oldest VIIC/41 delivered July 1943 and the two other delivered end 1943 had nonreversible engines, removed purifier etc. That would not eliminate possible earlier changes. Installation of the schnorchel was carried out later, for U 995 it was just completed at the end of the war May 1945.
Tore

[tore]

Simon
Your fuelfilters looks marvelous.
Tore

[tore]

Simon
Reversing mainengine.
The conversion to a nonreversible engine was really not a major change. They removed the reversingcylinder( the large cylinder),the reversing slide valve ( the small cylinder) and pipings. The tachometer and enginetelegraph as well as the reversing nameplate (removing the handle) was not removed or changed as can be seen on the photo below.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

New layout without reversing cylinder.

You can see the main change the Germans did, they moved the air starting valve and the fuel filters into alignment of the base plate of the missing reversing cylinder.

[NZSnowman]

Tore, here a small detail that we miss. Small metal box clamps holding the fuel lines on top.

[tore]

Simon.
HP fuel pipeclamps.
I you are right. Allthough they look like being insignificant they were important as they prevented vibrations which might lead to breakage and firehazard as previously mentioned.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
Being at your revised drawing I shall introduce you to the air induction system not discussed before, I guess it would keep you busy during the weekend.  
The air induction is at moderate revs and load normal aspiration eg. the engine sucks the air from the engineroom to each individual cylinder. When the load and revs reach a certain level ( I believe 390 rpm) you had to switch in the double cone clutch for the Roots blower. The air is then at an overpressure supplied via an airduct from the blower to a common manifold connected to the inletvalves. This means that the direct individual air induction from the engine room to the inlet valves have to be shut. All this is done by a handle placed outboard and seen on the picture below. The handle was combined with the reversing handle, on the non reversible engine the handle is fitted as shown. By moving the handle you are turning a rod alongside the engine, the rod rotates and shuts the natural aspiration inlets and at the same time switch in the Roots blower clutch as can be seen on the picture below.
Tore

[tore]

Simon
Induction air system
Having read my post this morning I realize I should probably have expressed my shelf a bit clearer. The normal aspirated air supply enters the air manifold through two inlets in the manifold before going to the inletvalves. These two inlets are shut when the blower is connected by the blowerclutch handle. The fuel handle can not be moved to a higher preset filling unless the blower is engaged. Interlock prevents the startinghandle to move unless the blower is disengaged. All these  interlocks makes an intricate mechanical system of rods and levers which I don`t believe you should bother about. As to the reversible engine. It is no direct connection between the reversinghandle and the blowercoupling handle except the interlock preventing the engine to be run astern with blower engaged.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
Exhaustmanifold protection.
I see you have put in the exhaustmanifold protection around the flanges. In spite of your clamps, vibrations sometimes caused the hp fuel line to break at the fuelinjector inlet and the fuel squirted right on to the flange area which you have now protected. I could not resist using your nice drawing to illustrate the situation.
Tore

[SnakeDoc]

Hi Tore,


I wonder about one thing. On the photo below (from U 570 diesel engine room) there are visible two engine order telegraphs and two pairs of shaft revolution indicators (one pair next to telegraphs and the other slightly behind the wheel of the main induction valve). I suppose, that the revolution indicators in the front are for diesel engines, while these in the back - for the propellers shaft, right?


(http://uboatarchive.net/U-570Photo26.htm)


Second thing - in this document: http://uboatarchive.net/Manual.htm (chapter Rudder order telegraph and rudder angle indicator system) it is said, that in diesel engine room was one indicator of the main rudder position. I was not able to locate it in the diesel engine of U 995. By analogy to the U 505, I would suppose, that it had to be on the fuel oil gravity tank...
Or maybe it was not installed at all? I don't think it has to be necessary in the diesel engine room...





--
Thanks, regards
Maciek

[tore]

Maciek.
You are right the rpm meters on the fuel daytanks, (headertanks) are the shaft rpm meters. I really can not remember any rudder angle indicator in the diesel room as you know a rudder indicator was in the E-room. In general you would not need to have a rudderindicator in the dieselroom allthough it would have been handy as at big rudder angle you would notice a heavier load on the engines.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
Macieks photo from U 570 above shows the instrument panel as it used to be, crisp, with unpainted brass cocks and moderate painting not spotted with red paint as you se on the present U 995. I believe  you could very well use the above panelpicture as a model for your instrument panel drawing.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon
Induction air system
Having read my post this morning I realize I should probably have expressed my shelf a bit clearer. The normal aspirated air supply enters the air manifold through two inlets in the manifold before going to the inletvalves. These two inlets are shut when the blower is connected by the blowerclutch handle. The fuel handle can not be moved to a higher preset filling unless the blower is engaged. Interlock prevents the startinghandle to move unless the blower is disengaged. All these  interlocks makes an intricate mechanical system of rods and levers which I don`t believe you should bother about. As to the reversible engine. It is no direct connection between the reversinghandle and the blowercoupling handle except the interlock preventing the engine to be run astern with blower engaged.
Tore

Tore, how does my Induction air system look like?

It was hard to draw, as I have no photo's and a drawing from only one view

[tore]

Simon
The overall picture is good. I guess there are not many details to be shown on a top view, when the Roots blower is fitted it would help together with a frontview. I`ll keep looking and see if I can provide with more details.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
Below a cossection of the engine showing the airmanifold in superchargermode and the rod engaging the clutch and shutting the the natural aspiration inlet.
Unfortunately I do not have any drawing or photo showing the manifold may be somebody could help?.
Tore

[TopherVIIC]

I am looking in my (admittedly limited) sources Tore. I used to blow stuff up. I do not do that now... but I will try and see if I have anything to offer that is positive my friend...

[NZSnowman]

I used to blow stuff up. I do not do that now...

I blow up stuff also...but only snow

Christopher, have you ever made any in holes in snow, or only in metal?

[TopherVIIC]

Simon....
I learned much about blowing stuff up in S.korea... and blew up snow there.. It was winter there... and I admit I focused on hardware that N. Korea was using.... then I was sent to the Iraqi venue.. I am sure you would like Det Courd... orange line...with an electric explosive cap...
we sent snow to the bottom of he casm where we needed it. We sent metal to the heavens when we needed to. As a Marine, focused on my nation's goals... I did my work...

[TopherVIIC]

If one is not military... one need not actually know about methods of sapping, or explosive devices.

moving on... Politics are not this forums goals. Not political here.
Christopher.

[NZSnowman]

Simon....
I learned much about blowing stuff up in S.korea... and blew up snow there.. It was winter there... and I admit I focused on hardware that N. Korea was using.... then I was sent to the Iraqi venue.. I am sure you would like Det Courd... orange line...with an electric explosive cap...
we sent snow to the bottom of he casm where we needed it. We sent metal to the heavens when we needed to. As a Marine, focused on my nation's goals... I did my work...

We have orange Det Cord (about 8 g/m) on the hill. I do not used it too much, mostly to link big ANFO charges together.
 
We are not allow to use electric explosive cap.

[TopherVIIC]

low shock/thermic value... resonating in hard rock... it would shake the rocks... the snow would come down

[TopherVIIC]

Simon. I have used orange det courd for many purposes. I have blown up simple telephone poles with it. I have wrapped it around the turret races of supposedly high-end tanks and popped them off. I have cut engine blocks in two, have severed axles and wheels, and have cut tank barrels from their casting mounts.I have sent too many pine too their graves...

[TopherVIIC]

I do not do that now.

[TopherVIIC]

sorry Simon. I did not mean to sound like I was going off on you.  I am sorry.

[NZSnowman]

Hi Tore

Here a small detail added, yesterday I found a better picture of the top of the rocker arm.


Fig. 1. Updated drawing (left), Old drawing (right).

[tore]

Simon
You are really going into the really tiny stuff, may I at this point reintroduce the adjusting nut locking string and the valverod shaft spring locking ring. I mean you have been inquiring about the lockingplates . I guess it is the small details which makes it.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Tore, what do you think the missing label on U-995 looks like? You can see it on U-570. Would be cool to add this detail.

[NZSnowman]

Simon
You are really going into the really tiny stuff, may I at this point reintroduce the adjusting nut locking string and the valverod shaft spring locking ring. I mean you have been inquiring about the lockingplates . I guess it is the small details which makes it.
Tore

Thanks Tore.

I have the spring locking rings on the fuel rod shaft, but I have miss them on valve rod, will update my drawing.

[tore]

Simon
Apart from it looks like being a bit shorter and higher, I guess the text would be the same so why not fit it.
Tore 

[NZSnowman]

Tore, sorry I am not talking about the long narrow label.

I believe it will be the serial plate, like the electric motor drawing.

[tore]

Simon
I got it. I have tried to read the text on the upper nameplate, but in vain. There are four lines of text, first and third a bit longer that the other. It does not look like a serial nameplate, more like an instruction, hard to say. I suggest you include both. May be you have means to decipher the text.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon
I got it. I have tried to read the text on the upper nameplate, but in vain. There are four lines of text, first and third a bit longer that the other. It does not look like a serial nameplate, more like an instruction, hard to say. I suggest you include both. May be you have means to decipher the text.
Tore

Tore, you are correct. It looks more like instructions label.

[tore]

Instructionplates,paintmarkings and interlocks in the engineroom.
I have very often been puzzled by the effort the germans put in instructionplates, paintmarkings and the interlocks on the machinery and pipings in the engineroom.
In those days such extensive markings was not common, as only qualified crew were operating the equipment. Having read a few article on the subject I realize it was hard for the germans to find and educate sufficient qualified crew for the rapid expanding submarine fleet and hence introduced the comprehensive interlocks and excessive markings to prevent major disaster. The extensive use of interlocks on the reversing mechanism is a typical example to the above.
In our days improved marking seems to have picked up.
Tore

[tore]

Simon
The the rod for the shutting of normal aspirated air inlets and switching in the Roots blower start up front as previously shown, and continue along the engine rotating the two inletslides and then to the aft end of the blower where it crosses inwards to the doublecone clutch. I have tried to indicate this on the drawing below.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Tore, here a sneak preview. Still have lots of detail to add.

[tore]

Simon
We are entering a gray zone for me, I can not remember how the airduct from the Roots blower is entering the airmanifold. It is annoying because I my shelf dismantled the blower entirely ( some 60 years ago) . I have superimposed your drawing on top of a layout drawing  to figure out the arrangement. The confusion is on an appearant large ( yellow coloured ) square opening which I thought would be the inlet to the manifold. I just show you the picture may be you have more materials helping you to figure out the connection.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Tore, this is as far as I can go with the photo's I have. From this point it all estimated

[tore]

Simon.
Unfortunately you are right, I guess however that the next exhaustmanifold section passing the Roots blower is pretty certain. I have an idea for the inlet and output of the Roots blower, but rigth now it would be guesswork so I keep looking for documents confirming next step.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Tore, Check this out

I overlay the Pressure Hull openings on the Engine Room layers. It great to see the openings matching

[NZSnowman]

Tore.

Q1. What is this (Purple)?

Q2. Why is the extra pipe on the Starborad side (Green)?

[tore]

Tore, Check this out

I overlay the Pressure Hull openings on the Engine Room layers. It great to see the openings matching

Simon
Looks fine,I guess you can fit the last section of the exhaustmanifold as well, ready for hooking up the exhaustpipe.
Tore

[tore]

Simon
The purple marked item s are the two pneumatic motors turning the grinding device for the main exhaustvalves.
The green marked pipe could be the anticorrosion oil connection to the Junker compressor however there are valves which does not fit in. I`ll have to check and revert tomorrow.
Tore

[tore]

Simon
It was rather late yesterday trying to answer your question so I better try to rectify now. The green marked pipe system is far to large for being the anti corrosion oil pipe, I guess it is more likely belonging to the ventilation suctionsystem having a crossover to the port side and a branch to the lower stb outboard side connecting to the oxygen flask. You `ll find a better picture at the U historia seeing the connection to stb.
Tore

[tore]

Simon.
Roots blower.
The Roots blower is indeed placed a bit off the centerline of the engine as can be seen on the sketch below. The off center is towards outboard and make an improvement for the airinlet as well as facilitates the connection to the airmanifold.
Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon
The purple marked item s are the two pneumatic motors turning the grinding device for the main exhaustvalves.
Tore

Tore, for some reason I had always thought grinding device was hand operated.
 
Looking at the photo

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
Roots blower.
The Roots blower is indeed placed a bit off the centerline of the engine as can be seen on the sketch below. The off center is towards outboard and make an improvement for the airinlet as well as facilitates the connection to the airmanifold.
Tore

Thanks Tore, will update my drawing today.

[tore]

Simon.
On the British report of U 570. You can read an accurate description of the exhaust valvegrinding. The muffler valves are turned by the pneumatic motors, the group exhaustvalves are handoperated and the same is the Junker compressor exhaustvalve.

Tore

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
Roots blower.
The Roots blower is indeed placed a bit off the centerline of the engine as can be seen on the sketch below. The off center is towards outboard and make an improvement for the airinlet as well as facilitates the connection to the airmanifold.
Tore

Thanks Tore, will update my drawing today.

[NZSnowman]

Simon.
On the British report of U 570. You can read an accurate description of the exhaust valvegrinding. The muffler valves are turned by the pneumatic motors, the group exhaustvalves are handoperated and the same is the Junker compressor exhaustvalve.

Tore

Tore, while searching the net for information on the exhaust valve grinding I found this. It talks about British Oberon-class submarine exhaust valve grinder

http://www.hnsa.org/doc/oberon/induction/index.htm