Unbelievable! I have never seen it, you can really see every detail. I shall definetely study the pictures a little closer.
I see they have done a little fancy painting on the engines since my time and unfortunately even painted parts which shouldn`t be painted f.i. the fuelcontrolrods of the fuel pumps. Great! I shall have interesting days ahead of me. Thanks.
Tore
The main engines were grey. The camshaftrods to the rockearms were not painted at all (metalic), the controlrods to the fuelpumps were not painted, the indicatorcocks black( not painted), and as far as I can remember the HP fuelpumps were black.The small drains (dearation) on the fuelpumps same as the pump, not red. I`ll revert to the other question later today.Unbelievable! I have never seen it, you can really see every detail. I shall definetely study the pictures a little closer.
I see they have done a little fancy painting on the engines since my time and unfortunately even painted parts which shouldn`t be painted f.i. the fuelcontrolrods of the fuel pumps. Great! I shall have interesting days ahead of me. Thanks.
Tore
Tore, do you mean that dark blue was not the original colour. I am shock to found this out! ;) ;)
Colour coding for Piping
How common was the colour coding on the different piping system throughout the U-boat? Can you remember any of the colours?
We have a set of original German piping Schematics drawings that show the colour coding for each pipe (e.g. Gray with two brown bands = High Pressure Air for blowing or Purple with blue band = Oil purifying system piping).
However, it
Hi again,
I found a photo of Kauras engines, although it is black and white and bad quality, you can see the shiny steel pushrods for the valverockers and (not so clearly) the steel fuel regulatingrods not painted. On the pipes up front you migth be able to see some colourmarking bands.
Tore
Tore -Christopher
I have a question for you about the KNM Kaura - when standing topside on deck, looking down to the torpedo loading hatches, were there bulkheads, perhaps with limber holes, boxing in the hatch and well, or was it open framework? Do you have any pics of that area of the ship? Also, was the snort well boxed in as well, or was there just framework supporting the deck around the snort.
Thanks!
Christopher
Tore - It seems I was trying to add a picture I found at the same time you answered me!Ah now I get the question rigth. I am at a loss to understand this WEM PE set. I was never involved in the torpedoloading. To me it doesn`t looks like any pressurehullpart but as you say a box immedeately under the deck having floodgates. I am at a loss to explain the purpose of this and cannot recall ever to have seen it.
http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/brochure/images/wembrass/wempe7211.jpg (http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/brochure/images/wembrass/wempe7211.jpg)
So you don't recall anything like this surrounding the torpedo loading hatch below the working deck?
Christopher
I understood what you meant about the round bars and the clearance. It is interesting to me that at 100 meters the pressure hull would compress a measurable amount like that!Christopher I just had a look around and on the 1.72 kit of Czech Masters U-Boot VIIC winch loading torpedoes is a cutaway drawing showing the area between the casing deck and pressurehull at the forward topedoloading hatch. It`s an artist`s impression but the czech are usually very correct at the details. On this drawing I cannot see any casingbox. Have a look.
But I have always wondered at the torpedo loading "box". Its frame proportions do not make any sense compared to standard VIIC and VIIC41 drawings. I am at a point where I need to design that area of my boat, so I can build the frames and pressure hull, but I want it to be as realistic as possible.
I also must design and build the well where the top head of the snort rests when it is stowed, and want that as realistic as possible also - I think there are enough pics of U-995/KNM Kaura of that area though.
Thank you once again! :-)
Christopher
Snortmastrecess. I think the recess was adopted to the type of snortmast fitted on the sub. You may see something on my picture of the snortmast with electropneumatic head which had a tailormade recess. So I guess you have to decide which snortmast you`ll go for before looking for details.I understood what you meant about the round bars and the clearance. It is interesting to me that at 100 meters the pressure hull would compress a measurable amount like that!Christopher I just had a look around and on the 1.72 kit of Czech Masters U-Boot VIIC winch loading torpedoes is a cutaway drawing showing the area between the casing deck and pressurehull at the forward topedoloading hatch. It`s an artist`s impression but the czech are usually very correct at the details. On this drawing I cannot see any casingbox. Have a look.
But I have always wondered at the torpedo loading "box". Its frame proportions do not make any sense compared to standard VIIC and VIIC41 drawings. I am at a point where I need to design that area of my boat, so I can build the frames and pressure hull, but I want it to be as realistic as possible.
I also must design and build the well where the top head of the snort rests when it is stowed, and want that as realistic as possible also - I think there are enough pics of U-995/KNM Kaura of that area though.
Thank you once again! :-)
Christopher
Tore
A Fine looking ship Sir!Thanks, but it isn`t much compared to what you guys are doing. I think possibly it is one if not the only VIIC/41 in the norwegian version which is the speciality rather than anyhting else. I have ordered a glass showcase designed by me without frames where I am going to install a ledstrip illumination before I put it in the Captains Corner in my sittingroom
Q: Floor platingI `m almost sure it was unpainted
Tore, was the floor plating in the engine room painted black or was it unpainted?
Q: Floor platingI `m almost sure it was unpainted
Tore, was the floor plating in the engine room painted black or was it unpainted?
Tore
Normally we didn`t have any mats on the floorplating. I guess in wartime sometimes you would have something like an oilresistant rubbermat because the plating had a tendency to make substantial noise, particulary when people are rushing to their battle/divingstations As I previously have stated, noise is the subs worst enemy, hence rubbershocks mountings, rubbercovered tools and robbermats on the floorplatings.Q: Floor platingI `m almost sure it was unpainted
Tore, was the floor plating in the engine room painted black or was it unpainted?
Tore
Thanks :) :)
Tore, in some very rare original war time photographs of the engine room, I have seen a mat running the full length between the two diesel engines. Did you used a mat in the walkway between the diesel engines?
Q: Colour
Was the framing painted within the engines room?
If the snortvalve shut, the big diesel would suck out the air in the sub in seconds and the people would suffer. The cook had a hard time, one minute the kettles simmered in a second it could start boiling like crazy. In my day snorting was a novelty and in order to get experience we were ordered to test out the boat by sailing submerged from the westcoast of Norway passing Iceland to Greenland and back some 27 days submerged, which at that time was a record (in the norwegian navy).
We never operated more than one diesel at the time and always with the propellor disengaged, chargeing the batteries.The other E-motor/generator took care of the propulsion. We tried out direct dieselpropulsion while snorting but learned that the hydroplanes and the boat was not very suitable for high speed submerged and the mast was not designed for the load.
We got a lot of experience and ideas for improvement.Could you mention improvements you have implemented?
One of the main problems was the garbage of which 46 men produce substancial in the course of 27 days. Rottening garbage is not a pleasant thing and particulary not on board a sub. We got desperate and decided to put it in bags ( before the plastic ages) and load the torpedotubes whereupon we fired. Of course the bags bursted and the torpedopeople didn`t like it muchI have read that during war there were three ways:
Hi ToreHi Maciek
Thank you for posting photo with you inspecting the upper deck of the U-995.If the snortvalve shut, the big diesel would suck out the air in the sub in seconds and the people would suffer. The cook had a hard time, one minute the kettles simmered in a second it could start boiling like crazy. In my day snorting was a novelty and in order to get experience we were ordered to test out the boat by sailing submerged from the westcoast of Norway passing Iceland to Greenland and back some 27 days submerged, which at that time was a record (in the norwegian navy).
I have found (and translated to polish) instructions for using Schnorchel on type VIIC and IX boats.
http://www.ubootwaffe.pl/okrety/wyposazenie/chrapy.html
(at the bottom of the page there are original ones)
In the one of your previous post you have written:Quote from: toreWe never operated more than one diesel at the time and always with the propellor disengaged, chargeing the batteries.The other E-motor/generator took care of the propulsion. We tried out direct dieselpropulsion while snorting but learned that the hydroplanes and the boat was not very suitable for high speed submerged and the mast was not designed for the load.
You mentioned the diesel propulsion - I think it is suitable for the case 3 on the page
(http://www.ubootwaffe.pl/images/okrety/wyposazenie/chrapy/preliminary_snorkel_description1.jpg)
and the mode you have used is case 5 on page:
(http://www.ubootwaffe.pl/images/okrety/wyposazenie/chrapy/preliminary_snorkel_description2.jpg)
From my researches I know, that one 9-cylinder MAN engine created 20 mm Hg vacuum during snorting, but when the snorkel head valve was closed, after 2 min. the vacuum was 120 mm Hg. Did you installed any safety devices shutting off the engines autamatically when such vacuum occured?
You have also mentioned, that the electric distilling plant was not in use on board of the KNM Kaura - how did you supplement the water in battery cells? Where did you get from the water for cooking? You have used the water stored in the tanks for the whole cruise?
Was the navigation a problem during long sumberged cruises? Did you used dead reckonning? Did you use the original german Anschutz gyro compass or you have modern navigation systems?
And one more question not related with snorkeling but related to the sanitary systems - do you know if toilets on KMM Kaura where replaced or they are original/german?We got a lot of experience and ideas for improvement.Could you mention improvements you have implemented?One of the main problems was the garbage of which 46 men produce substancial in the course of 27 days. Rottening garbage is not a pleasant thing and particulary not on board a sub. We got desperate and decided to put it in bags ( before the plastic ages) and load the torpedotubes whereupon we fired. Of course the bags bursted and the torpedopeople didn`t like it muchI have read that during war there were three ways:
1. launching the garbages through the torpedo tubes - not practiced because of necessity of thorough cleaning the tube and hazard of jamming the launching piston during torpedo launch.
2. launching the garbages through the BOLD ejection tube - not preferred bacause of necessity of laborious loading small parts to the tube.
3. storing the garbages on the board - most common.
And one question related to the electric equipment - for a long time I'm looking for the informations about the Batterie Selbstschalter - Battery automatic circuit breakar - located in the galley and near the commanding officer room. I have never seen the photo of such device - and for now I think that the only way is to convince the curator of the memorial in Laboe. Maybe you have some information on this topic?
--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
I have read that US subs after GUPPY conversions were equipped with the devices, which shut down the engines when one a large vacuum occured, when the RPM of the engines droped down and when the exhaust gases pressure exceeded. On KNM Kaura without such facilities it had to be really hard work.
Dieselopereration during snorting.
We didn`t have any automatic shut down of the diesels at excessive vacum and when snorting the engineer on watch was stand by and had a hard time in bad weather. In fair weather and with a stable trim the underpressure in the sub was not
really a problem,it was the variable pressure which caused the troubles.
Snorting underpressure
We never operated more than one diesel at the time and always with the propellor disengaged, chargeing the batteries.The other E-motor/generator took care of the propulsion. We tried out direct dieselpropulsion while snorting but learned that the hydroplanes and the boat was not very suitable for high speed submerged and the mast was not designed for the load.
Hi ToreMaciek
Thank you for all answers.I have read that US subs after GUPPY conversions were equipped with the devices, which shut down the engines when one a large vacuum occured, when the RPM of the engines droped down and when the exhaust gases pressure exceeded. On KNM Kaura without such facilities it had to be really hard work.
Dieselopereration during snorting.
We didn`t have any automatic shut down of the diesels at excessive vacum and when snorting the engineer on watch was stand by and had a hard time in bad weather. In fair weather and with a stable trim the underpressure in the sub was not
really a problem,it was the variable pressure which caused the troubles.Snorting underpressure
We never operated more than one diesel at the time and always with the propellor disengaged, chargeing the batteries.The other E-motor/generator took care of the propulsion. We tried out direct dieselpropulsion while snorting but learned that the hydroplanes and the boat was not very suitable for high speed submerged and the mast was not designed for the load.
What was average cruise speed while snorting? Do I understood correctly, you mean, that accurate depth handling (necessary for snorting) was hard on greater speed? Or the boat was generally tough to handle?
--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
Tore, Thanks for the great picture of the bow :) :)Hi
From other pictures of the Type VIIC/41 bows I have seen, the steel plate along the edge looks smooth (without the small bump - like my drawing below). I was wondering on KNM Kaura was the steel plate in the centre part of the bow, as it the same pattern and type of steel plate found along the edge?
(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9615/new2lt.jpg)
(http://Kaura 1953 dummy torpedotest 3.gif)Christopher.
Tore -
That is a surprisingly smooth (to me) looking torpedo launch from the surface! I would have expected more turbidity and bubbles from a surface shot from tube #1.
At first I thought it was a picture showing that someone cast a mooring line forward and it landed in the water! :-)
Cheers
Christopher
Tore, Thanks for the great picture of the bow :) :)Hi
From other pictures of the Type VIIC/41 bows I have seen, the steel plate along the edge looks smooth (without the small bump - like my drawing below). I was wondering on KNM Kaura was the steel plate in the centre part of the bow, as it the same pattern and type of steel plate found along the edge?
(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/9615/new2lt.jpg)
As far as I remember, all our VIIC `s had a similar executions as Kaura and the pattern of the "studs" was even all over the steeldeck as shown.
Tore
and a nice presentation, even a painting behind!Thanks Rokket, but it`s not so much compare to what I see in this forum. I`m busy planning and making the displaycase. It`s a challenge to be able to show all the details you put into the model and proper ligths are some of the clues. I`ll use the LED technique and a glasscase without frames and use the weekend to figure out the optimal place for the LEDstrip in the case.
Hmmm...I posted about that lovely build yesterday, but it's not here...I also like the presentation with the painting in the bg.I`m posting the pencildrawing made by me of KNM Kaura patrolling in northern Norway. The whole " navy"corner includig the glass showcase with LED ligths shall be ready by tomorrow and I`ll post a new picture for you by then if you are interested.
Tore -Thanks Christopher .
Your model of the Norwegian Lion looks outstanding! Well done Sir! And Your KNM Kaura looks just as proud beside her! Years ago I helped a buddy of mine rig the tallship USS Constitution. She was a board-by-board model, and the rigging was complete. I enjoyed helping on her, and would one day like to build a tallship.
KNM Kaura U 995 Balkongerat/ Gruppenhorchgerat
Some confusion exsist as to if this was installed originally on U 995. It to my opinion it was not and KNM Kaura was not fitted with Gruppenhorchgerat when she was a "frontline" sub in the norwegian navy 1953-1957, She was taken out of service in 1962 and the last years before that she served as a trainingboat. She was handed over to the germans October 1965 an undated picture of her hanging in the big floatingcranes in Kiel shows her in the Norwegian version with Gruppenhorchgerat (see below). Another picture shows her in the Norwegian version at Laboe on the concretebeds with doors in the pressurehull and Gruppenhorchgerat (see below) and then another picture dated March 13. 1972 she is hanging in the floatingcranes with wintergarten tower and doors cut in the pressurehull without Gruppenhorchgerat. I presume she had for some reason been fitted with Gruppenhorchgerat between 1957 and 1965. Thus she wasn`t equipped with this device originally.
Tore
I`m happy you could use the info.KNM Kaura U 995 Balkongerat/ Gruppenhorchgerat
Some confusion exsist as to if this was installed originally on U 995. It to my opinion it was not and KNM Kaura was not fitted with Gruppenhorchgerat when she was a "frontline" sub in the norwegian navy 1953-1957, She was taken out of service in 1962 and the last years before that she served as a trainingboat. She was handed over to the germans October 1965 an undated picture of her hanging in the big floatingcranes in Kiel shows her in the Norwegian version with Gruppenhorchgerat (see below). Another picture shows her in the Norwegian version at Laboe on the concretebeds with doors in the pressurehull and Gruppenhorchgerat (see below) and then another picture dated March 13. 1972 she is hanging in the floatingcranes with wintergarten tower and doors cut in the pressurehull without Gruppenhorchgerat. I presume she had for some reason been fitted with Gruppenhorchgerat between 1957 and 1965. Thus she wasn`t equipped with this device originally.
Tore
Tore, extremely interesting about the Balkongerat on U-995. It has been a very special part of the U-boat for me as U-1308 had one. I been researching this area of the boat for the last three years. There have been numerous things about the Balkongerat on U-995 that I could not make sense of. I have study the other Balkongerat's on the other U-boat and U-995 Balkongerat is the odd one out.
I have study the differences between the changes over to the Type XXI from the Type VIIC/41. By also studying the Type XXI it have help me understand better the Type VIIC/41. A lot of the late war technologies and equipment for the Type VIIC/41 came from the Type XXI research. From this also I have learn a lot about the war late u-boat.
I underearth some new information this summer about the Balkongerat which also made no sense to me until today after reading this above. I think I am now starting to understand the Balkongerat on the Type VIIC/41. I can feel the start of a new research article coming soon ;D
Thanks for the information!!!!!!!! :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
It made my day!!!!
Tore, the Type XXIII was it the KNM Knerter??? Just wonder were able to get aboard and have a look around?As you know KNM Knerten ex U4706 was a XXIII type delivered January 1945 and as such a very modern submarine. However she was a coastal sub and as such not very fit for our need. Moreover some parts were removed and we planned to use her for research. However she had a fire and a small batteryexplosion so she was scrapped and sold in 1953. I was never onboard.
Working and seeing the inside a Type XXI after the Type VII's, must be like driver a model 'T' then going to a ferrari; Many things similar but everything different ;DI believe so, but even then the VIICs as at the end of the war, equipped with snort, were beautiful boats with well proven technique, moreover they were considerable more comfortable acommodationwise than our british built subs. To me, it was a big change beeing educated on british submarines to run a german.The biggest differences between the british and german subs at that time, were apart from the snortmast, the operation of the vents and valves. The british were hydraulic operated and the germans handoperated by levers and rods.
Tore -Christopher
I have a question for you about the KNM Kaura - when standing topside on deck, looking down to the torpedo loading hatches, were there bulkheads, perhaps with limber holes, boxing in the hatch and well, or was it open framework? Do you have any pics of that area of the ship?
I found this picture of the White Ensign Models brass PE set, but would like to know if the loading well on Kaura looked like that.
http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/brochure/images/wembrass/wempe7211.jpg (http://www.whiteensignmodels.com/brochure/images/wembrass/wempe7211.jpg)
Also, was the snort well boxed in as well, or was there just framework supporting the deck around the snort.
Thanks!
Christopher
Moreover some parts were removed ...
Tore
To my knowledge no. All our VIICs including Kaura (U 995) had a fairly advanced attackperiscope as can be seen on the picture below.Moreover some parts were removed ...
Tore
This is interesting! As currently U-995 has a Type XXIII periscope. Do you guys use the periscope from the Type XXIII before scrapping her?
Sorry Tore :-[ I was talking about the sky periscope. The sky periscope in the control room is different from the standard sky periscope for the Type VIIC.
ChristopherTore
Good to hear I have put you on a track. Crawling around in the casing while at sea would be a bit risky. You are trapped in a confined space which even in moderate weather is occasionly submerged without beeing able to move very much. I have been crawling around in the area and as a fairly skinny guy I could manage. I would never send a heavy guy down he could be stuck. But you are rigth, it`s a lot of stuff there like greaselines which need to be looked after.
Tore
ToreI second the motion! :-)
By any chance do you have any photographs that you are willing to share of this area between the pressure hull and deck, showing the pipings etc...?
I would found any photographs extremely useful, for my drawing!
Sorry I don`t have any drawings. But there are a couple of german books dealing with the german repair and restauration of U 995 where they have removed the casingdeck. These books have photos of the job, but I don`t know if they are of any use to you. I check for the titles of these books.QuoteToreI second the motion! :-)
By any chance do you have any photographs that you are willing to share of this area between the pressure hull and deck, showing the pipings etc...?
I would found any photographs extremely useful, for my drawing!
I believe so, but even then the VIICs as at the end of the war, equipped with snort, were beautiful boats with well proven technique, moreover they were considerable more comfortable acommodationwise than our british built subs. To me, it was a big change beeing educated on british submarines to run a german.It is really surprising opinion - there is commonly said, that crew habitability on german boats was extreme rough in comparison to the allied (us and uk) subs.
The biggest differences between the british and german subs at that time, were apart from the snortmast, the operation of the vents and valves. The british were hydraulic operated and the germans handoperated by levers and rods.As far as I know, the larger boats (types IX, XB XIV and XXI) had vent valves operated by means of compressed air pistons/actuators (with emergency hand drive of course).
Was storing in the casting something you did only, or did the German's do this also?I have seen descriptions, that "seem
According to the upperdeck stowage, I'm attaching the part of the
"Tauchvorschrift f
You have some very interesting documents. The german instructions you are showing is almost the same as we used. Do you happen to have any german descriptions or schematic drawings of the snort system not having the pipeconnections up at the tower (as you previosly showed), but at hollow snortpivotshaft?
Maciek, and ToreExcellent! Looking forward to seeing it. I just finished the famous snort exhaustpipebend on top of the casingdeck and shall install it tomorrow as soon as the paint is dry.
My article about the schnorchel should be going up this weekend on the AMP site, it have my latest drawing on the schnorchel :) Also should have good size update for my "Drawing Drawing' within the next week or so. Just need to check a few things first.
Tore, here could be a good test for you memory. Below are pictures of the bulkhead between the CR & mass. On the right of the picture, we can see a pipe with a colour code (purple with red band). One of my document I have say its a Fuel oil transfer lines. Do you know if this is correct?Hi
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3641/new1yd.jpg)
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4239/new2yb.jpg)
Tore, from what you saw on KNM Kaura and your understanding of German U-boat design what do you think the German
NZSnowmanAs a consequence of NZSnowmans researchs and the above I went back to the drawingboard and installed the pipe on my Kaura ( ex U 995) model as can be seen on the picture below.
I rememeber some times ago you launched the idea that all VIIC-VIIC/41s equipped with snortmast having airinlet and exhaust outlet at the hingepivot had a small part of the exhaustpipe protruding through the casingdeck on stb side forward part of the conningtower. I was a little reluctant to that and of the opinion U 995 didn`t have it. My memory failed, I have been scruntinizing all my pictures and finally today I found the evidence that Kaura (U 995) and all our VIICs did have same, see the picture of Kaura below taken in May 1953. I think you can even see the pipebend contains the snortexhaustpipe shut of valve. You are rigth I believe all the VIIC/VIIC-41s having this type of snortmast had pipebend through the casingdeck. Up to this date I have not seen any modelbuilder having got this detail, so back to the workshop, I`ll be the first.
Tore
Tore, here could be a good test for you memory. Below are pictures of the bulkhead between the CR & mass. On the right of the picture, we can see a pipe with a colour code (purple with red band). One of my document I have say it
Hi Tore, SimonHi MaciekI think, you both are partially right. I think, that this is sounding/test/vent line for the inboard fuel oil tank 1.
Tore, here could be a good test for you memory. Below are pictures of the bulkhead between the CR & mass. On the right of the picture, we can see a pipe with a colour code (purple with red band). One of my document I have say its a Fuel oil transfer lines. Do you know if this is correct?
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3641/new1yd.jpg)
(http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/4239/new2yb.jpg)
Here is the control room side of the above bulkhead:
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/wao96.jpg)
On this diagram I have marked corrensponding parts of installation:
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/95rk2.jpg)
(http://uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate8A.htm)
Compare the hull valve handle with the one on this diagram (treibol bordv):
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/o8mh1.jpg)
(http://uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate1.htm)
Using this panorama you can see the drain line and the "bucket" for the fuel oil.
http://www.kubische-panoramen.de/index.php?id_id=5378
--
Regards
Maciek
Tore, can you remember if the high pressure Oxygen bottle behind the rear engine housing and clutch were painted or unpainted? And if painted that colour they were?Simon
Were some suggestion that the Germans painted the top of them dark blue ???
Thanks, Simon.
HiMaciek!
Coming back to the Schnorchel - Tore, do you remember, if following wheel in the forward control room
is the drive for the Schnorchel locking shaft?
Simon, have you done any research related to this part?
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/a9873.jpg)
(http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/vkbmx.jpg)
http://www.deutschland-panorama.de/museen/laboe_technisches_museum/ps/10_1051_04.php (http://www.deutschland-panorama.de/museen/laboe_technisches_museum/ps/10_1051_04.php)
--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
Yes I think it is.However your picture of the lockingpin external on what I presume is the Laboe U 995 is not the way it was. The rod for the wheel was fitted in an external tube outside the conningtower as I hope you can see on my bad quality picture below. This is the way it was fitted on the U 995. I have seen 3 executions of the transmissionrods to the wheel, external all the way to the deck and then into the conningtower, the way shown on your picture and the original way on KNM Kaura (U 995).
Well, that's a good question. I have another - on U-995 in Laboe is not visible the exhaust pipe branching forward the exhaust gas blowing valve box (connning tower stb) and going forward, over the deck, to the schnorchel mast.
Having had another look at your Laboe U 995 picture I see they have removed the snortlockingrod completely so it doesn`t show an alternative. Why did they do that?
You are rigth, these devices were for greasepumping to the mechanical links partly outside (in the casing) the pressurehull. As far as I remember a few pipes led from the pump via shut off valves in the pressurehull to distribution boxes for greasepoints outside . May be something for Christophers forward greaselines project?
We had a special man ,a "greaser", who was responsible for these points.
You are rigth, these devices were for greasepumping to the mechanical links partly outside (in the casing) the pressurehull. As far as I remember a few pipes led from the pump via shut off valves in the pressurehull to distribution boxes for greasepoints outside . May be something for Christophers forward greaselines project?
We had a special man ,a "greaser", who was responsible for these points.
Christopher. Coffee-maker! You should know better, the coffee was made almost in the crews lavatory and the coffeetaste would match any fancy taste made today!QuoteYou are rigth, these devices were for greasepumping to the mechanical links partly outside (in the casing) the pressurehull. As far as I remember a few pipes led from the pump via shut off valves in the pressurehull to distribution boxes for greasepoints outside . May be something for Christophers forward greaselines project?
We had a special man ,a "greaser", who was responsible for these points.
:-) Interesting! I always thought that was the coffee-maker for The Lords!! ;-) Now I have to dig up some info on these distribution boxes.
original compasshousing changed with a newer version
Hi Toreoriginal compasshousing changed with a newer version
That's interesting - I have always thought that U-995 (and KNM Kaura later) was equiped with this newer version compass housing (specific for the late versions of the type VIIC/41):
(http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7305/u1023rddition.jpg)
(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6778/u1023.jpg)
(U-1023)
(http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/9283/u1305.jpg)
(U-1305)
It is significantly smaller than housing in the earlier versions of the type VIIC. I guess, it is because in the late VIIC/41 some parts of the salvage/emergency blowing installations which were also in this housing were removed.
I have been also wondering, how the magnetic compass (and the light transmission system to the control room) looked like.
Tore, one more question - I know, that apart from the depth gauges in the control room, there were two gauges in the forward and aft torpedo room each. On U-995 in Laboe I have never seen these. Do you remember, where they were located?
--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
Simon
Snortmast lockingpin.
You are mentioning 2 versions: 1. Through spraydeflector and along outside the conningtower to the deck.
2. Through spraydeflector and then shielded by a half round pipe to deck KNM Kaura (U995) version.
There is indeed a 3rd version, through the spraydeflector and then inside the conningtowercasing to the deck. The KNM Kya ( U926) and Kinn (U 1202) had both this version. See picture below of KNM Kya.
Tore
Tore, do you have any close-up or clear pictures of the wooden deck? I am trying to workout the size of the wooden boards and the spacings.Simon
Thanks, Simon.
Thank, Tore! Both pictures were very useful. I also look at other pictures of the Type VIIC's late-war deck style. And I found something common with then...they are all different ;D
- The widths of the wooden boards are many.
- The spacing between the wooden boards is much the same.
- The workmanship with the decking also was very variable, some were very nice and very good, while others looked like it was build in a rush.
Below this the colour I have gone for. Its a little lighter now, but it will darken after I get it printed.
(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/8114/typevii4132b.jpg)
SimonSimon I believe they were galvanized
I think you should skip the yellowish tint. It was very dark almost black gray (like cinders if you know that kind of coke) and you didn`t see the woodgrainpattern.
The the wooden deck of U 995 at Laboe has a terrible quality, warped and uneven it was definitely not like that, however the colour is not far from what it used to be.
Tore
tore
Tore, can you remember how the wooden deck was fix? Could you see the metal bolts or were there small wooden plugs reset within the bolt holes?
Simon.
I see you have left the conningtower hatch without any details,sure it will come. Don`t forget the catch keeping the hatch open.
The conningtowerhatch was very important as it was vital that the CO got on the top as quick as possible. The problem was that after having been submerged over a long periode the could be a substantial overpressure in the sub due to smaller leakages and fi using the airdriven exhaustvalvegrinder. Equalizing the pressuredifferance could take time and was often skipped as a routine we had always a man with a firm grip around the CO`s legs when he opened the hatch which flung open. I never saw it but was told that CO `s have been jettisoned out of the hatch. I noticed howewer that the air inside turned into fog by the sudden pressuredrop.
Tore
Simon
Fixing of wooden deckboards . I believe they were bolted with galvanized bolts having filisterheadsupwards approximately same colours as the deck. I cannot remember any wooden pegs.
Tore
Simon
The only photo I have would be the below. The references could be the forward pressurecontainer which is placed at the same frame as the original or may be the original hatch in the foreground.
Tore
Christopher
Tore,
On page 104 and 105 of the Manual at http://uboatarchive.net/Manual.htm (http://uboatarchive.net/Manual.htm) it is stated that:
"... To support bulkheads and seal leakages, the following materials are provided on the boat: Leak shoring material. 4 Leak shoring timbers each 200 x 10 x 10 cm and 4 boards @ 75 x 30 x 4 cm are carried in the forward torpedo room"
Did the Norwegian Navy use the same equipment for leak sealing, or did they have different, post-war improvements?
Do you know where these were stored - Did they form the "walking deck" over the torpedos or were they extra gear carried in excess of the normal false flooring?
There is mention of other boards and planks for leak sealing in the diesel engine rooms and aft torpedo rooms. Do you know where these were stored as well?
Thanks for all of your input! ;D
Christopher
...I don`t know where the germans would possibly store the timber, sorry....Good to know! I will see if I can figure out where such timber was kept if it was actually carried at all, but will not worry too much over it. After all, the drawings show that type VII's had small boats stored under the top deck but it is known that they did not all carry them as planned.
... I cannot remember ever to have seen this box, so I presume it has been installed after my time onboard.It will be challenging to try to figure out what subtle changes were made from when the Germans had the boat in the first place, to when you were there and the Norwegians added and modified it, and the years after.
Maciek
I cannot remember ever to have seen this box, so I presume it has been installed after my time onboard. It looks like an US made box to me and that migth give a clue. AGOS was (is?) a name for US Ocean Surveillance Ships gathering acoustic datas in support of the Navys antisubmarine warfare branch. My guess is the box has something to do with equipment linked up to that.
Tore
I cannot remember ever to have seen this box, so I presume it has been installed after my time onboard. It looks like an US made box to me and that migth give a clue. AGOS was (is?) a name for US Ocean Surveillance Ships gathering acoustic datas in support of the Navys antisubmarine warfare branch. My guess is the box has something to do with equipment linked up to that.
This is Your thread, so now worries on topic. if it gets too wild we'll split. The system is meant to serve us, and not the other way around! Cool stuff by the way! It might be interesting to compare this setup with the US escape gear (Momsen Lung) and any others. I look at "parallel invention". My own personal survey of electrical plugs and sockets of modern times: USA = small and wimpy, with bad wire nut connections in junction boxes; UK = huge and chunky plugs, don't know about wiring; Australia = compact yet substantial, with really simple and secure screw connection inside boxes and switches. USA has good junction boxes, yet half the power of Aus, Aus has crappy exposed (internally) switch boxes. All do the same thing, and for practical purposes, equally well, but all are different!Rokket
Maciek & Tore, here is a list I started on the changes for U-995 a few years back. It is in way finish!
Bow Torpedo
- High Pressure Air bank № 4 missing.
- Torpedo Tube - Original torpedo tube № III replace, probable exchange by the Norwegian Navy launch some 533mm post war torpedoes.
ToreWell Maciek I guess you have to realize this was back in the early fifthies and we did`t have very sofisticated outfit for oxygen and CO2 mesurements except for a box from the germans with some chemicals which we tried once. I don`t remember what kind of chemicals but it was a fairly simple step to step instructions what to do.
Once again, thank you for your answers. I have got another question - I'm wondering what was your practice to measure the CO2
concentration during longer submerged cruises?
From the reports, I know, the Germans used something called "air sampling tubes, a Drager-measuring apparatus, or an Orsat testing setup".
Was your approach different? Or did you use something similar? If so, could you explain how it worked?
--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
Tore!It`s easy to forget the enormous development which has taken place on diving and submarines the past 60 years. 60 years ago,in my time, escape excercises from sunken submarines were not common, but after a few disasters prior to my submarinetraining (HMS Truculent and HMS Affray) the newspapers started to scream and in UK where I was trained, came eventually an 100`escape trainingtank which was brand new in 1953.
I LOVE your story about your initial scuba training! The pics of the early "submerged - engineering - inspection - apparatus" as I would have called it, was outstanding!
Some day I shall have to relate the story of a young trainee who invented the underwater yo-yo! :-)
Christopher
Once again, thank you for your answers. I have got another question - I'm wondering what was your practice to measure the CO2Well Maciek I guess you have to realize this was back in the early fifthies and we did`t have very sofisticated outfit for oxygen and CO2 mesurements except for a box from the germans with some chemicals which we tried once. I don`t remember what kind of chemicals but it was a fairly simple step to step instructions what to do.
concentration during longer submerged cruises?
From the reports, I know, the Germans used something called "air sampling tubes, a Drager-measuring apparatus, or an Orsat testing setup".
Was your approach different? Or did you use something similar? If so, could you explain how it worked?
We did`t make any science about it and used our experience and how the body reacted, primarely panting for the excessive CO2 and for oxygen, well honestly we allowed a cigarette per man occasionally (very seldom), if the match wouldn`t ligth we were low on oxygen.
I know most submarines were equipped with testkit, but I doubt if it was regulary used. An experienced submariner can feel a lot on his body about the quality of the air in additon to the time you have been submerged and the activity of the crew.
Tore-Christopher.
Do you remember if the torpedomen stored the torpedoes with the contact pistols threaded onto the warheads of the unloaded torpedoes or were they kept locked up and put on prior to loading into the tubes? I know that might be outside the duties of a snort officer, but I wonder if that is something you might have known...
Christopher
I was an ammunition and EOD tech in the U.S. Marine corps, and I suspected that was the case. I dealt with ground ordnance and explosives, and never with naval explosives, but I believe the handling procedures were similar. When I stow my below-deck torpedoes I will be sure to keep the pistols in their locker! ;-)Seems to me the only sensible thing to do. Reloading the tubes was a timeconsuming and noisy job and wouldn`t be done immediately after you have launched your torpedoes. You would rather switch to silent running and sneak away to a safe area where you could reload and hence
Thank you gentlemen - good information!Christopher
In the Marine Corps we had similar devices for mortar fuses and large projectiles like 155 mm HE to protect the fuse wells and detonation pistols. I suspect that the devices you circled above were used to manipulate the pistols and protect them while being loaded. A question I would have is where were the pistols stored? On the Type VII there are supposedly water-proof lockers in the aft end of the forward torpedo room. I would guess that they are stored there? Probably there is a similar locker for the aft torpedo room.
Christopher
I cannot remember any pistols stored in bulkheadbrackets like on the type IXC- U 190. I guess we normally (in peace time at least) would have stored everything related to this in ammostorage compartment like the ammostorage below COs quarter. Again reloading the tubes with torpedoes having warheads with pistols fitted was not done very often in peacetime we mostly used dummytorpedoes for training. It migth be we would have done it differently in wartime but as I previously said I believe you would have time to fetch them from the ammocompartment when reloading. But I really don`t know as you know it was not my business.Tore, I think you are right - on type VIIC boats the pisols were not stored in that way - mainly because of lack of space. They could be stored in the munition room, below quaters, together with demolishion charges and ammo for the guns.
HiWell Maciek I think we have reached a conclusion to this question. Interesting pictures you posted.I cannot remember any pistols stored in bulkheadbrackets like on the type IXC- U 190. I guess we normally (in peace time at least) would have stored everything related to this in ammostorage compartment like the ammostorage below COs quarter. Again reloading the tubes with torpedoes having warheads with pistols fitted was not done very often in peacetime we mostly used dummytorpedoes for training. It migth be we would have done it differently in wartime but as I previously said I believe you would have time to fetch them from the ammocompartment when reloading. But I really don`t know as you know it was not my business.Tore, I think you are right - on type VIIC boats the pisols were not stored in that way - mainly because of lack of space. They could be stored in the munition room, below quaters, together with demolishion charges and ammo for the guns.
The brackets from the photo above were used to hold the canisters for the Pi-1 and Pi-2 pistols (as on this photo of the U-190 forward torpedo room, at backboard).
(http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/canada/uboats/u190d.jpg)
Similar canister can be visible on attached photo (U-826 after surrender, while disarming, probably in Loch Lisahally or Loch Ryan). Second photo presents the Pi-2 pistol (combined impact and magnetic type) itself.
--
Regards
Maciek
Q: Engine Room - Assembly PatchSimon
Tore, I was wondering, did you ever used the assembly patch, to remove the diesel engine, to service them? Or have the original diesel engine always stay within U-995?
Q: Engine Room - HandleIt was red like all the important pressurehullvalves. Today U 995 look like having measles.
Tore, was the handle for the Main Air Inlet valve in the engine room painted red?
Q: Engine Room - Bilges
Tore, on plans for the engine of the Type VIIC
Tore, I was thinking about the box keels, and how they would have rested on the sea floor. There seen to be no direct contact between them and the bottom of the keel to help with the load distributions.Simon
I was wondering perhaps they were used to restrain that part of the boat while it was in dry-dock being constructed. I imagine that the two engines are very heavy and would put a large amount of stress on the framing around this area.
After the engines were installed and just before flooding the dock, they could not remove box keels, so build the keel around them and left them in place.
That photo looks almost as if there is a torpedo in #3!Christopher
I know Tore - I was joking!As a Marine you should know not to joke about ammo that`s seriuos stuff.
I am entirely sure that the Norwegian Navy is competent enough to remove live ammunition from its tubes before throwing her up on dry-dock! Where else are the torpedomen going to nap during lunchtime? :-)Right Christopher!
I had always wondered what those were also - your description makes it easy to picture its configuration through the box-keel. I just texted and showed the drawing to my sister who worked at one time for a company called Safety Sling, and she had her former engineers confirm that it was probable what they were for. They agree with you! :-)Christopher
Christopher
ChristopherTore - I am just lucky she still has connections - she does not work for those folk any more, but is still on friendly terms. They just happen to provide tools for lifting very heavy industrial type things. :-)
You certainly have your supportgroup stand by.
Tore
In those days before the libertyships and sectionbuildings were common, heavy lifts of 100-150 tonnes were not done at every yard. The germans were pretty advanced not only technically but productionwise as well.QuoteChristopherTore - I am just lucky she still has connections - she does not work for those folk any more, but is still on friendly terms. They just happen to provide tools for lifting very heavy industrial type things. :-)
You certainly have your supportgroup stand by.
Tore
Christopher
Simon,
It looks like a linked rubber matte, possibly anti-slip, fatigue reduction, or for sound reduction. It might be for all of the above! We had similar mattes in our machine shop.
Q: Engine Room - FlooringSimon
Tore, did the original flooring in the engine room have draining holes like the conning tower floor (Right) or was it solid (Left)?
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/5509/graphic1pb.jpg)
Thanks, Simon.
Q: Engine Room - Photograph
Tore, in the original wartime photograph below, someone is checking diesel level in the engine room (I am sure a job you did a few 100
Well
In this country easter has already started and people are moving up to the mountains for the last skiingoportunity. So I`m sending you my greetings below.
Tore
Hi ToreMaciek
I have got question about diving planes angle indicators. I know, that each diving planes control station has its own angle indicators - one pure electrical (resistance bridge principle) and one pure mechanical (called Teleflex system). Could you explain how this latter works? I can not find any appropriate references to the Teleflex system.
--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
I have been trying to figure out about a 2nd mechanical indicator system for the hydroplanes operators in the CR and I simply cannot remember to have seen them. Teleflex is a well known make even today and exsisted in the wartime. At that time the system was basically a flexible cable in an armed hose for transmitting mechanical power.
f. Mechanical Bow Plane Angle Indicator System
This system is identical with the Teleflex systems installed in USN surface vessels in various applications and is so called by the Germans. Details of the system may be obtained from any Teleflex instruction book.
But I am sorry I cannot remember a mechanical (Teleflex) connection to the hydroplaneindicators in the controlroom, it should be possible to see the teleflexcable on one of the photos.I have attached some photos (one from U505, other from U995), but I also cannot see flexible cable.
Just as a side note to the discussion about rubber matting ... The above mentioned http://uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXC.htm (http://uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXC.htm) says " ... Linoleum deck covering is provided in the living spaces and in the torpedo rooms. Linoleum over wood decking is provided in the sound and radio rooms. Rubber link matting is provided in the maneuvering room, engine rooms and control room... "Christopher
Christopher
Q: Engine Room - Piping
Tore, is the lower pipe copper, and the upper pipe bronze? As there seem to be a big colour different between the two pipes ???
Thanks, Simon.
(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/5944/new1zx.jpg)
Q: Engine Room - Lubricating capsSimon
Tore, it seen that most lubricating caps are painted red (like in Engineroom floorplating.jpg), but can you remember if the lubricating caps were made of bronze?
Thanks, Simon.
Q: Engine Room - PipingIndeed the lower pipe seems to be copper. As far as I remember most of the pipings were steel and I don`t think the other pipe is brass nor copper, I`ll make a guess it`s rusty steel having been washed with oil, but that`s a guess (hopefully it isn`t plastic).
Tore, is the lower pipe copper, and the upper pipe brass? As there seem to be a big colour different between the two pipes ???
Thanks, Simon.
(http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/5944/new1zx.jpg)
Q: Engine Room - Fuel filtersSimon.
Tore, perhaps can help me with a discussion I had several years back. There are two different types of fuel filters on the engines. I was wondering if you know if one is an original German fuel filters.
Many thanks again, Simon.
(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9392/new1ut.jpg)
Fig. 1. Port side fuel filters.
(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3606/new2tyi.jpg)
Fig. 2. Starboard side fuel filters.
Simon.
Your piping question. If you have a close look at the engine manoeuvreing handles, they were steel, on your filterpictures you`ll see they have same colour as the pipe I assumed was steel. I guess that support the steel theory.
Tore
1. What is this? Is it a small window to check fuel level? What colour should it be?Simon
2. What is this? Is it a small coverplate? It very hard to tell from these pictures as with the paint, but are there two very small screw on each side of the plate?
3. Just noted this reset in the rods this afternoon. I imagine this would illustrate the maximum movement of the rods.
Also just realise I have a major redraw on the fuel pump regulating rods!!! :o :o :o I do not realise that the fuel pump regulating rods are not symmetrical on the aft three heads of the engine, compare to the fore 3 heads. By the way, Tore how did you number the head, from stern to bow.
Thanks, Simon.
(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/8931/new3r.jpg)
Tore, what is the red thing?Simon
(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/8017/new1t.jpg)
1. What is this? Is it a small window to check fuel level? What colour should it be?Simon
2. What is this? Is it a small coverplate? It very hard to tell from these pictures as with the paint, but are there two very small screw on each side of the plate?
3. Just noted this reset in the rods this afternoon. I imagine this would illustrate the maximum movement of the rods.
Also just realise I have a major redraw on the fuel pump regulating rods!!! :o :o :o I do not realise that the fuel pump regulating rods are not symmetrical on the aft three heads of the engine, compare to the fore 3 heads. By the way, Tore how did you number the head, from stern to bow.
Thanks, Simon.
(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/8931/new3r.jpg)
1. This is an "inspection window" where you can check the movement of the fuelplunger in the fuelpump. It should never be painted. Usually the fuelpumps were painted black from the Bosch manufacturer.
2. Honestly I cannot remember this signplate. It could be nameplate for the Bosch factory, as the HP fuelpumps could be moved around it was not a cylinder numberplate.
3.This is a toothed rack entering a toothed rim on the fuelplunger sleeve, regulating the fuelinjection by turning the sleeve. The movement was strictly horisontal, back and forth and the recess is presumably a guide to prevent it turning.
For the position of the fuelpumprack it was usually an engraved millimeterscale on the rack just before entering the fuelpump. I think you can see marks on the rigth side of the pumpcasing were the pointer was fitted.
Tore
Simon1. What is this? Is it a small window to check fuel level? What colour should it be?Simon
2. What is this? Is it a small coverplate? It very hard to tell from these pictures as with the paint, but are there two very small screw on each side of the plate?
3. Just noted this reset in the rods this afternoon. I imagine this would illustrate the maximum movement of the rods.
Also just realise I have a major redraw on the fuel pump regulating rods!!! :o :o :o I do not realise that the fuel pump regulating rods are not symmetrical on the aft three heads of the engine, compare to the fore 3 heads. By the way, Tore how did you number the head, from stern to bow.
Thanks, Simon.
(http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/8931/new3r.jpg)
1. This is an "inspection window" where you can check the movement of the fuelplunger in the fuelpump. It should never be painted. Usually the fuelpumps were painted black from the Bosch manufacturer.
2. Honestly I cannot remember this signplate. It could be nameplate for the Bosch factory, as the HP fuelpumps could be moved around it was not a cylinder numberplate.
3.This is a toothed rack entering a toothed rim on the fuelplunger outer sleeve and , regulating the fuelinjection by turning the outersleeve and then the fuelplunger. The movement was strictly horisontal, back and forth and the recess is presumably a guide to prevent it turning.
For the position of the fuelpumprack it was usually an engraved millimeterscale on the rack just before entering the fuelpump. I think you can see marks on the rigth side of the pumpcasing were the pointer was fitted.
Tore
Number 2:
Tore, I think you are correct about the Bosch factory name plate :)
Could not found any u-boat wartime pictures of this plate :'( So I base the plate below on two wartime Bosch factory name plate from a horn & a magneto ;D They were the only wartime name plate I could found on the net.
(http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/3649/new4j.jpg)
Seems to be fine to me. If you really want details your could put in fuelrack positionmarks 1mm apart as indicated in red below.
Tore
Q: Engine Room - Fuel filtersSimon.
Tore, perhaps can help me with a discussion I had several years back. There are two different types of fuel filters on the engines. I was wondering if you know if one is an original German fuel filters.
Many thanks again, Simon.
(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/9392/new1ut.jpg)
Fig. 1. Port side fuel filters.
(http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/3606/new2tyi.jpg)
Fig. 2. Starboard side fuel filters.
There is something odd with the pictures of the filters none of them look like the originals, do you happen to have a complete picture of the port filter?
Tore
Hi
Maybe you'll find it useful.
--
Regards
Maciek
Tore -Christopher
I have noticed in my study of the forward torpedo room that there were many fixtures that were as you say "in mirror execution" - pieces that seem to have been designed for a given function on the port side, but could not be switched to the stb side. That indicates the there were a left and a right to many pieces of equipment. But other pieces are designed to have one model that works either way. That could be a supply nightmare I would think!
Was there a lot on the U-995/KNM Kaura that showed "mirror" design, if you can recall?
Christopher
Hi ToreSimon
What is this? And why are there three pipings leading to it?
Thanks, Simon
(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/3685/new1c.jpg)
A small remark on the fuelpumps. The arrangement for the fuelpumps is of course for the stb engine, for the port engine the fuelpumps shall be the opposite e.g. the fuelrack positionmarks are pointing forward and the movement of the fuelracklink is opposite the stb link. The reason is that the fuelpumps are not in "mirror execution".Simon
Tore
What book are these drawing from?I can't remember - I got when I had been working on the U Bootskunde f
The fuelracklink is connected to the fuelhandle on the maneuvring stand, I don`t think you should have any oval slots in that link as you want a precise movement and no slack. I cannot remember the excact linkage but may be you have a picture to share.
Simon
Very good!
A few remarks, the link from the governor (in the camshaftcasing) is connected to a "scalearm" with a pivot seen as a screw on the servomotor pedestall, on the other side at the scalearm is a vertical thin rod operating the slide, this rod can be seen a just a little left of the servomotor (amplifier) rod going vertically down to the fuelrackleverarm. The very visible oilpipes are marked on my drawing below. There are only two pipes, supply and return. On the fwd side of the fuelracklink you have the cylinderliner lubricator driven by an arm from the fwd valverocker pushrodconnection driving the lubricator via a ratchetconnection. The pipes from lubricator are two per cylinder. The fuelracklink is connected to the fuelhandle on the maneuvring stand, I don`t think you should have any oval slots in that link as you want a precise movement and no slack. I cannot remember the excact linkage but may be you have a picture to share.
Tore
We see only the part of the fuellinkage belonging to fuelpump no 1.so the oval slot belongs to the no1 fuelpumplink and is OK there are further linkages going down to the linkagesupport and a link disappearing towards the center of the enginefront connecting to the fuelhandle with some interlocks etc which is not visible and very complicated to incorporate. My advice is to show the lingkage as drawn, but add the pedestallinkage as you migth be able to figure out looking at my two drawings belowThe fuelracklink is connected to the fuelhandle on the maneuvring stand, I don`t think you should have any oval slots in that link as you want a precise movement and no slack. I cannot remember the excact linkage but may be you have a picture to share.
Hi Tore
I only have one very poor picture of this area. I thought it was not correct to have an oval slot. But if you look at the picture below, just to the left of the connected, there look like a very small oval slots. What do you think?
(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/9817/new1dv.jpg)
Tore, today I was updating these two piping on my drawing. Are they oil return pipes?Simon
(http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5800/new2e.jpg)
For some reason your pictures came out as a red x on my computer. So I have to comment based on your text.
It could be the exhaust outlet from the Junker compressor as far as I remember it was operated by a valve wheel with a spindle for grinding the carbon deposits by hand,not airmotor as for the mainengines.
5. In the case of the Junker's air compressor exhaust valve, the valve floats on the end of the main spindle. It is rotated by an extension from the valve passing down the centre of the main spindle and is turned by hand.
Simon
Looking at your last post, I wasn`t sure you got my idea about the governor servomotor oilpipes OK so I post a couple of pictures marking off the pipes. Both pipes, not three, are bundled together as shown and goes aft along the roots blowercasing (fixed to that) to about middle of the housing (sorry no picture) then goes down and disappear under the floor where the return (blue) joins the main engine returnoilpipe. The luboilpressurepipe I believe goes under the floor up front to the branch off just after the luboilcooler marked red on the systemsketch. The returnpipes are marked blue.
Tore
(http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=921.0;attach=2477;image)
Simon
This picture is not from my time onboard I guess it is from 1970- 1972 just after the germans had (carefully) restaured the U 995 for the first time. I have been looking at my pictures and cannot se the paintings (very bad quality). As told previously we didn`t use the coding very much. My idea is that the whole design of the german sub is based on the possibility that it should be able to be handled by relatively poor trained crew compared to the the UK and US crew. We had very experienced crew recruited from our fairly large merchant marine thus we didn`t use the colourcoding, today it is used all over.
Tore
My idea is that the whole design of the german sub is based on the possibility that it should be able to be handled by relatively poor trained crew compared to the the UK and US crew
I have the feeling a further detail of the luboilsystem is probably required. I`m posting a picture of the port system where I have coulored the returnpipes blue and pressurepipes red.
Tore
Also, should I have the wheel in red, orshould it be unpainted?
Tore, I just noted a charge between U-995 and the plans with the pipe under the super charger. On the plans it layout this like in red, but in real life it like in the drawing & picture. Do you think there a reason they change the layout? May be they change the layout to get around the clutch.Having a closer look at the supply/returnpipes I believe there is indeed a bend in the return pipe,but I believe it migth be only to follow the Roots blower gearcasing. I cannot see the reason for an alongship bend.the supplypipe seem to be running straigth
Also, should I have the wheel in red, or should it be unpainted?
(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/8924/new3sp.jpg)
(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/9422/new4a.jpg)
Maciek, this the red arrow in post #295 the oil cooler?
Floorplating engineroom.
To follow up my theory and better than an old mans memory, I post a picture which I believe shows that there are no contacts with the floorplatings (supports) and the main engines.
Tore
Luboilcooler.
I can confirm the that the shown item is the luboilcooler, even if the Uboat historia tells it`s a filter. However I think it would be an advantage to have a closer look at the pipings. Below I have indicated (green) a bit simplified the seacooling waterpipes. Together with the previous posted luboilpipes (connections) it migth be possible to figure out how the hook up is. The seacoolingwater chest have 5 valves and is situated towards the fwd enginroombulkhead I believe.
Tore
Luboilcooler.
I can confirm the that the shown item is the luboilcooler, even if the Uboat historia tells it`s a filter. However I think it would be an advantage to have a closer look at the pipings. Below I have indicated (green) a bit simplified the seacooling waterpipes. Together with the previous posted luboilpipes (connections) it migth be possible to figure out how the hook up is. The seacoolingwater chest have 5 valves and is situated towards the fwd enginroombulkhead I believe.
Tore
Simon.Floorplating engineroom.
To follow up my theory and better than an old mans memory, I post a picture which I believe shows that there are no contacts with the floorplatings (supports) and the main engines.
Tore
I also believe there no contacts with the floorplatings (supports) and the main engines, as if there was a slight different in frequency between the engines, the floorplatings would rattle itself to died.
Coolingwater pump.
The seacooling waterpump as far as I remember was placed fwd at the engine on port engine stb side fairly low down. On the posted picture I have indicated what I think is the pump.
Tore
Coolingwater pump.
The seacooling waterpump as far as I remember was placed fwd at the engine on port engine stb side fairly low down. On the posted picture I have indicated what I think is the pump.
Tore
U-Boat Type VIIC Manual - Page 120
Cooling water pump
The cooling water for cooling the engine lubricating oil cooler, the cylinder barrels, cylinder heads, exhaust valves and exhaust manifolds is fed by a double-piston pump. The drive of the pump takes place via the crank, which is propelled by gear wheel transmission from the crankshaft (Ratio 2:1).
Luboilcooler 2
As far as I can see the luboilcooler bypass pipe seems to be without contact with the selectorvalve but disappear into the housing, is any reason for that, I should believe it would be more like the red pipe indicated on the posted picture , you have in fact indicated the same by blue overunning the pipe. On my posted picture I have indicated on the crossover line where I believe the suctionconnections to the various pumps are.
Tore
I believe there is a mistake in the system drawingindicating no suctionconnection to the stb enginepump from the crossover.
I`m not sure if I misunderstood you. I think the the boardvalve (outer) opens inward. In the event that seaweed obstruct the intake, the second valve (sluicevalve) is shut and LP air valve is opened allowing the air to the space between the sea and sluicevalve thereby blowing the weed out. I don`t think there is any airconnection to the sluicevalve.
I have got another question regarding to the low pressure air installation - I have noticed, that hull valve in the E-motor/Aft torpedo room (E-motor cooling water intake and torpedo compensating tanks flooding) has also connection to thelow pressure air installation. I wonder what is for - I guess it was used to "crack" the valve - to help opening valve at greater depth or with the jammed valve. Is that right?http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=121.msg10617#msg10617
I believe it`s fitted on port side rigth where the emergencysteering wheel is stowed. It`s a relatively small centrifugal circulation pump.
Maciek, do you know this section of the Low Pressure system?Not really. I also think, that there is no connection with the sluicevalve. I think that there is visible "main lp line", going through the diesel engine room, there is a branch to the hull valve blowing connections, then the valve (which does not fit), and above it the branches to the stb and port hull valve. There is also one line, which also does not fit. I will try to figure it out when I will get a while.
Luboilreturnpipes.
I have been looking a bit more on the subject, see picture below. I think the strange bends on you drawings migth come from the relatively large returnpipe from the Roots blower (blue).The supplyline to the servomotor (green) is coming from underneath the deckplating and is fairly straigth. The servomotor returnpipe (yellow) is making a bend under the Roots blower casing for some reason unknown to me, but anyhow it has to connect to the larger pipe from the blower.
Tore
Airvessel
As it seems to be an unknown item, I guess a picture would help when you are drawing same. It is not the airvessel on the engine attached coolingwaterpump but the airvessel on the piston trimpump.
Hi ToreI believe there is a mistake in the system drawingindicating no suctionconnection to the stb enginepump from the crossover.
You are right - on the original, german drawing it is drawn correct:
(http://uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate13.jpg)
--
Regards
Maciek
Hi SimonMaciek, do you know this section of the Low Pressure system?Not really. I also think, that there is no connection with the sluicevalve. I think that there is visible "main lp line", going through the diesel engine room, there is a branch to the hull valve blowing connections, then the valve (which does not fit), and above it the branches to the stb and port hull valve. There is also one line, which also does not fit. I will try to figure it out when I will get a while.
--
Regards
Maciek
Hi ToreI agree with you and are looking forward to seeing the drawing. I suppose you intend to brush up all the systems in the engineroom, that`s a vast task but very interesting. It`s just like beeing onboard again, we`ll get your U 1308 running properly in spite of wrong drawings.
I been away today and I am away tomorrow but I should have the new drawing ready in a few days.
I am really happy with the updated drawings as I have workout a few more pipes and corrected a few valves to there correct style :) I have found doing both (lateral and dorsal) views at the same time has help heaps to increase the accurate of the drawing.
Hi ToreI agree with you and are looking forward to seeing the drawing. I suppose you intend to brush up all the systems in the engineroom, that`s a vast task but very interesting. It`s just like beeing onboard again, we`ll get your U 1308 running properly in spite of wrong drawings.
I been away today and I am away tomorrow but I should have the new drawing ready in a few days.
I am really happy with the updated drawings as I have workout a few more pipes and corrected a few valves to there correct style :) I have found doing both (lateral and dorsal) views at the same time has help heaps to increase the accurate of the drawing.
Tore
Tore, back to the question about location of the cooling water pump in E-motor room:Very good! Marko you can even see the top of the thrustbearingI believe it`s fitted on port side rigth where the emergencysteering wheel is stowed. It`s a relatively small centrifugal circulation pump.
I found pictures which fit with your answer:
(http://u-historia.com/uhistoria/tecnico/visitaguiada/bombas/enfriadoresenpopa-1.jpg)
(http://u-historia.com/uhistoria/tecnico/visitaguiada/bombas/enfriadoresenpopa-2.jpg)
(source: u-historia.com)
--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
Simon
The idea of somebody on the same planet is just getting ready to work with the falling snow while for us mother nature is removing it quickly and put in flowers instead sounds crazy. I would rather be in a VIIC engineroom than the snow. The funny thing is I thougth I had forgotten everything, but it`s gradually coming back as I study the details.
Tore
Simon
The idea of somebody on the same planet is just getting ready to work with the falling snow while for us mother nature is removing it quickly and put in flowers instead sounds crazy. I would rather be in a VIIC engineroom than the snow. The funny thing is I thougth I had forgotten everything, but it`s gradually coming back as I study the details.
Tore
Hi Tore
Great story!!
I was wondering do you have any pictures of the piping under the flooring of the engine room?
I can not imagine there a lot of space under the flooring with all the different piping system, especially not like you see in the Das Boot movie! I have workout the easy piping, but there still big sections missings :( So I have started mapping the paths of the other piping systems, to help me fall in the missing sections of piping. I can not believe the German
Luboil checkvalves.
The footvalves at the luboilsuction is a checkvalve, the symbol is round, a 3way cock is square. Se drawing below.
SimonLuboil checkvalves.
The footvalves at the luboilsuction is a checkvalve, the symbol is round, a 3way cock is square. Se drawing below.
The valve icon has three lines on it, so does this mean OFF/HALF/FULL?
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/4030/new2sg.jpg)
Also below if you look at the lines for the dirty lubricating oil from the manifold (M4) to the tanks there are check valves for each line. But there no check valve for the clean lubricating oil from the manifold (M3) to the tanks. Tore, do you think this is a error or are they not needed?
(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5314/new2su.jpg)
Yes you both heat and add water to "wash" the oil.
Tore
Simon
I had a look at the english translation of the german iconexplaination. I think I know what you mean. The translator used an unusual word "valve" for the german "hahne" which means cock.
The icon used is a straigth throughflow cock, which means it has a simplifed casing and a removable handle, not wheel (see picture) and the meaning of straigth is that it is either shut or opened by hand, It is used for double sealing of the pipe, the check valve shut by itshelf.
Tore
An airvessel ( sometimes called windvessel) is only a " bulb" rigth after a pistonpump. It contains an air cushion which act like a buffer and equalizes the pressure fluctuations coming from a reciprocating machinery like a pistonpump. Nothing much, just a casted "blimp" migth be an airconnection on the top.I have found the drawing of the cooling water pump for the G.W. diesel engine.
I think I remember you mentioned earlier that you are planning to visit the Laboe U 995 this summer or autumn. I guess you are making a list of what details you shall be studying and I presume you take a camera along. I have never visited her in her present state allthough passing the Denkmal many times by ship. Before you go, may be you`d be interested in the story how she actually ended on concrete supports at Laboe. KNM Kaura ex U-995 was in active service in the Royal Norwegian Navy from December 1952 till December 1965. The latter part of her lifetime she was a "schoolboat". The first years, when I was on board she was a" frontline boat" and the CO, No 1 and me became very good friends who met after our service onboard occasionally to memorize old days. The CO has now passed away, but he mention a few interesting things on our social meetings.
After his time onboard, he became in the 1960 years in charge of a newbuilding programme for the Norwegian navys new subs in Germany. During these years he came in contact with a number of german ex Ubootofficers, himshelf beeing a navyofficer with war experience on the allied side, had a few problems in the beginning but in the end he became friends with quite a few german officiers. I think he was even in a party with admiral D
This translation of the OPZ Ventil is not quite correct. In the Technisches Hilfsbuch fLuboil checkvalves.
The footvalves at the luboilsuction is a checkvalve, the symbol is round, a 3way cock is square. Se drawing below.
The valve icon has three lines on it, so does this mean OFF/HALF/FULL?
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/4030/new2sg.jpg)
Hi ToreExellent! Simon the bulb on the top is the airvessel.An airvessel ( sometimes called windvessel) is only a " bulb" rigth after a pistonpump. It contains an air cushion which act like a buffer and equalizes the pressure fluctuations coming from a reciprocating machinery like a pistonpump. Nothing much, just a casted "blimp" migth be an airconnection on the top.I have found the drawing of the cooling water pump for the G.W. diesel engine.
--
Regards
Maciek
Hi SimonThis translation of the OPZ Ventil is not quite correct. In the Technisches Hilfsbuch fLuboil checkvalves.
The footvalves at the luboilsuction is a checkvalve, the symbol is round, a 3way cock is square. Se drawing below.
The valve icon has three lines on it, so does this mean OFF/HALF/FULL?
(http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/4030/new2sg.jpg)
From the picture below I believe that valve E this right above valve F and the hand pump is port of the these two valves. I am not 100% sure where valve C is :(Simon
Tore, the small air lines which go to the 3-way valve (with the red handle) do you know which system this is? Is it the Oxygen system, Engine starting air system or the low pressure system?
(http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/5407/p1100209.jpg)
(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/7755/new1ik.jpg)
(http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/7762/system3.jpg)
Plate 14: (Left) Engine lubricating oil system, (Right) lubricating oil storage, sump and purifying system, for Krupp enginesLub oil puryfier pumps.
Q: Do you remember where the two pumps for cleaning are?
As far as I remember the suction- (dirty oil) and deliverypumps( clean oil) were intergrated in the puryfier as was the case of the heater. Unfortunately I don`t have a picture of the purifier but I`ll look for it and revert.
[...]Filters, strainers, oil purifiers and oil coolers are similar to available U.S. commercial equipment. [...] The major differences from U.S. submarine practice are in the installation on the German vessels of a contaminated oil system, and the use of portable hose and interchangeable pipe connections to permit use of the hand and power driven detached pumps with fuel oil or other systems.(http://uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXC.htm)
[...]
The forced lubrication system on the IX-C submarine is tied in with an oil purifying arrangement in a manner similar to U.S. submarine practice. However, within both the lubrication and purifying systems, i.e: in tank design and in piping layouts, several basic and numerous minor differences exist.
[...]
The oil purifying system on the IX-C is of much lower capacity and is arranged to function in a somewhat different manner from the system as set up on U.S. submarines. A single, standard DeLaval purifier, rated at 79.2 gals./hour is installed, while on U.S. vessels two 250-gals./hour purifiers are used. The piping, pumps and heaters on the IX-C purifier system form an independent system and the units are selected with only that one service in mind, whereas the purifier pump and heater on U.S. vessels are of greater capacity than required for purification alone and are piped so as to be used also for transferring and heating oil from storage of sump tanks. This dual service requires the installation of a "flow" regulating valve that isn't required with the IX-C arrangement. A further difference exists in that the German purifier functions on a separator principle requiring a separate salt water feed line and salt water heater that need be kept in constant use and adjustment. The Sharples purifier on U.S. vessels is presently used only as a clarifier and does not require a separate salt water feed line. The German purifying arrangement with temperature and flow regulation on both the lub oil and salt water lines requires more attention during operation then on the U.S. setup with only temperature regulation on the lub oil line.
I have tried to look for a picture of the lubeoil separator (centrifuge) but sorry I didn`t find any. I think it was the Westfalia make.The only picture I got hold of was the present days Westfalia lubeoilseparators, allthough basically the same system it is not 100% the way it looked. Migth be somebody have a picture?
Lubricating Oil Separator(http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570BritishReport.htm)
Number: 149 Type 2 LHD 2/20
Capacity: 300 litres lub. oil/hour at 1 atm. at a speed of 1350/1,750 r.p.m. (66 galls./hr. at 15 lb./sq. in.).
Makers: Ramesohl and Schmidt, Westfalia, Oelde.
Motor Makers: Werdohler Pumpenfabrik, Werdohl, I/W Paul Hillebrand G.M.B
A typical marine luboil centrifuge looks like on the posted picture, but again it is not excactly the one on a VIIC.
Your remark that in general the electric motor is placed vertically above machines particulary pumps, is of course correct and the reason you assumed, to prevent leakages down to the motor is rigth. However there are exceptions as for the aux. lubeoilpump, where the pump and motor are mounted horizontally on a common bedplate.
Tore - I have a question for you and this should be one you are intimately familiar with, in that you were the designated "diver" of the KNM Kaura...
on U-570 plate 16 (http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate16.htm) item (I) shows:
TAUCHERANSCHLUSZ BACKBORD bzw STEUERBORD
Diver's connection, port or starboard
Where was this, and what type of connection was it may I ask?
Christopher
I just visited your Kabutographics webside, very interesting and in fact touching one of my hobbies. Apart from modelbuilding I like to paint and are using my computer to sketch my oilpaintings. I am just busy making a painting of KNM Kaura based upon a picture of my model which I put into a choppy sea. I am posting the sketch. The oilpainting is almost finished and if of any interest I`ll mail same later.
Tore
Tore,
one odd question - what was avarage wattage of bulbs used to lighting compartments?
--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
Tore, thank you for the reply.
To start off on a different tack - I have got a photos of handle, near the thin wall, between the officers and chief petty officers rooms, on port side. Do you remember what is it for? Can it be the handle for the schnorchel locking gear, which locks the mast in its lowered position?
--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
Thank you for answer, Tore.
--
Best regards
Maciek
Maciek.
Just to confirm our assumption is correct I mail a sketch showing the two lockingpins on the schnorchelmast. Although the drawing shows a wheel for the downrigth mast I think a handleoperated pin is probably better in that awkward position. Moreover don`t forget the schnorchel was fitted in March/April 1945 and they migth have been short of wheels at the yard in northern Norway.
Tore
Just to confirm our assumption is correct I mail a sketch showing the two lockingpins on the schnorchelmast. Although the drawing shows a wheel for the downrigth mast I think a handleoperated pin is probably better in that awkward position. Moreover don`t forget the schnorchel was fitted in March/April 1945 and they migth have been short of wheels at the yard in northern Norway.
We never operated the Junkers while snorting, we used only the E-compressor. As the Junker worked on a two stroke cycle, the scavenging was sensitive to exhaustbackpressure. As to the external arrangement for the silencer, I cannot remember for sure, but I would believe it was separate.Thank you for very interisting informations.
According to the upperdeck stowage, I'm attaching the part of the
"Tauchvorschrift f
I can not remember for 100% but here is my guess. There are two adjusting shafts on each main motor/generator. They are situated just above the stators and I think your may see a greasecup on the shaft casing, this, I believe, is wormwheel drive connected to the shaft. By putting a handle or wheel on the shaft you are able to turn it thereby the stators and adjusting the magnetic field of the motors/generators
I can not remember for 100% but here is my guess. There are two adjusting shafts on each main motor/generator. They are situated just above the stators and I think your may see a greasecup on the shaft casing, this, I believe, is wormwheel drive connected to the shaft. By putting a handle or wheel on the shaft you are able to turn it thereby the stators and adjusting the magnetic field of the motors/generators
That would be it! Accidentaly, in book "Die Sonar Anlagen der deutschen U Boote" by Eberhard R
We tested various alternatives and ended up with one diesel charging the batteries, eg coupled to the generator, tailclutch disconnected, and the other E-motor driving the propeller, diesel disconnected. Propelling the sub by E-motors made it easier (softer) to handle the snorting condition for the hydroplanepeople ( steady snortingdepth). Several times during direct dieseldriven propellers we dipped the snortmast floatvalve resulting in very uncomfortable air pressurefluctuations and sometimes the safetyvalve on the exhaust opened filling the sub with black exhaust. Snortingpropulsion by E-motors was definitely the most favourable alternative.And when crusing submerged at low speed, wheter snorting or using battery, it was better to use one shaft or two? I mean, if boat had some better characteristics (ie reaction on helm), or it was meaningless?
HiI can not remember for 100% but here is my guess. There are two adjusting shafts on each main motor/generator. They are situated just above the stators and I think your may see a greasecup on the shaft casing, this, I believe, is wormwheel drive connected to the shaft. By putting a handle or wheel on the shaft you are able to turn it thereby the stators and adjusting the magnetic field of the motors/generators
That would be it! Accidentaly, in book "Die Sonar Anlagen der deutschen U Boote" by Eberhard R
ToreSnorting.We tested various alternatives and ended up with one diesel charging the batteries, eg coupled to the generator, tailclutch disconnected, and the other E-motor driving the propeller, diesel disconnected. Propelling the sub by E-motors made it easier (softer) to handle the snorting condition for the hydroplanepeople ( steady snortingdepth). Several times during direct dieseldriven propellers we dipped the snortmast floatvalve resulting in very uncomfortable air pressurefluctuations and sometimes the safetyvalve on the exhaust opened filling the sub with black exhaust. Snortingpropulsion by E-motors was definitely the most favourable alternative.And when crusing submerged at low speed, wheter snorting or using battery, it was better to use one shaft or two? I mean, if boat had some better characteristics (ie reaction on helm), or it was meaningless?
--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
I cannot remember where, but I believe it was only one and according to the systemdrawings it seems to have been mounted on the port side forwd. It migth have been under the floorplating.
Tore
Siomon
Your suggestion seems to be a possibility, howewer I cannot see the the access to the separatorbowl, it looks awfully cramped bearing in mind that it had to be dismantled and cleaned quite frequently ( I never did the job so my memory is blanked ).
Q: About the lubeoil separator (centrifuge) - Reply #355 to 358. http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=921.msg11874#msg11874 (http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=921.msg11874#msg11874)
Tore, do you know where the two lube oil separator are found? Are there under the decking?
Here a idea. I was looking the piping layout, and I noted a funnel section next to the luboilseparatorunit. In the photo below you can see a funnel section (Red arrow) and maybe the luboilseparatorunit is the blue arrow?
(http://imageshack.us/a/img706/7304/new1ym.jpg)
(source: U-995 DVD http://www.uboataces.com/u995.shtml (http://www.uboataces.com/u995.shtml))
Does anyone know where the LP piping enter the engine room? Above or below/Port or starboard side?
I would think below deck and on the port side as the manifold in the Control Room was on the port side ???
LP airpipeline.
I`m not 100% sure, but I believe the main LP air supplypipe is going on the top center (midship) into the engineroom. I`ll check and see if I have a better idea later
I think quite a few items, including the flowmeter is intergrated in the luboilseparatorunit. Below within the black framing is my idea what`s in the separatorunit. I don`t believe the flowmeter is identical to the torpedocompensatingtank.
I think quite a few items, including the flowmeter is intergrated in the luboilseparatorunit. Below within the black framing is my idea what`s in the separatorunit. I don`t believe the flowmeter is identical to the torpedocompensatingtank.
I agree with Tore, that oil purifier could be integrated with such elements as flow meter, heaters, and so on.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img706/7304/new1ym.jpg)
Simon, on this photo, I'm wondering about the spring, which is located above the funnel. Together it does not look like part of oil purifier.
--
Regards
Maciek
Simon
I guess you have pretty much an idea of the inboard pressure water fuelcompensating system forward portside of the engineroom, anyhow below is a picture of the first valves after entering the pressurehull.
Tore
Maciek.
I believe the spring you are wondering about is the spring for the reliefvalve for the enginedriven pistoncooling-waterpump of the starboard engine. You can see the reliefvalve for the port engine under the horizontal freshwaterpump on port side. Simon I don`t think this has anything to do with a purifier.
Tore
I believe the spring you are wondering about is the spring for the reliefvalve for the enginedriven pistoncooling-waterpump of the starboard engine. You can see the reliefvalve for the port engine under the horizontal freshwaterpump on port side. Simon I don`t think this has anything to do with a purifier.
Tore, there no pictures of this valve, but what do you think of my drawing of the valve? Looks OK?
Thanks Maciek! I will update my drawing tomorrow :)Simon.
Simon
I guess you have pretty much an idea of the inboard pressure water fuelcompensating system forward portside of the engineroom, anyhow below is a picture of the first valves after entering the pressurehull.
Tore
Thanks for the correct information :) :)Maciek.
I believe the spring you are wondering about is the spring for the reliefvalve for the enginedriven pistoncooling-waterpump of the starboard engine. You can see the reliefvalve for the port engine under the horizontal freshwaterpump on port side. Simon I don`t think this has anything to do with a purifier.
Tore
Yes, your total correct. I am trying to decide if I am going to add the purifier system to my drawing. We have some little information it and I would hate to add something to my drawing that was only a best guess :(
Thanks Maciek! I will update my drawing tomorrow :)Simon.
If you wonder how it looks like on the other side, engineers PO`s mess, you may see a very young EO checking it.
Tore
This morning I added the main drainage line and the Main drain suction valve (with the extension control for the neighbouring compartment).Simon.
Tore, there no pictures of this valve, but what do you think of my drawing of the valve? Looks OK?
(source: http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate6.htm (http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate6.htm))
(http://imageshack.us/a/img33/564/new1qs.jpg)
Hi Tore
Yes, I believe this valve is complex without better photo
Hi Tore
Yes, I believe this valve is complex without better photo
Tore, do you think the drainage pipe that runs between the aft trimming tank to the Control Room manifold and valve h be the same diameter as the drainage pipe we been working on?Simon.
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate6.htm (http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate6.htm)
Simon.Tore, do you think the drainage pipe that runs between the aft trimming tank to the Control Room manifold and valve h be the same diameter as the drainage pipe we been working on?Simon.
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate6.htm (http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate6.htm)
It migth be a bit smaller. The drain/flooding pipe should be able to handle large quantities of water, whereas the trimline usually handled moderate quantities. F.inst. when the order divingstations was given and the crew moved to their station I remember 400 ltrs had to be pumped from aft trimtank to fwd. On a special occasion we flooded the diesel inlet shaft from the towercasing to the shut hullvalve in the engineroom, I guess it contained several tons of seawater which had to be drained into the engineroom bilge and pumped out via the drain/floodpipe in a hurry. It should be possible to find the exact diameters though.
Tore
Tore
(http://imageshack.us/a/img525/5098/53780889.jpg)Simon.
Fig. 1. Drainage line (Brown-green-brown).
Tore, why you do you think the German, added a kink in the piping between the two frames?
Simon
I just had a look at your maindrain/flooding pipe drawing in the engine room. It seems that your pipe goes down and through the lubeoil storage tank. In general you would`t have a massive waterpipe in a vital lubeoiltank. If you are sure about that, my idea above is of cause not relevant.
Tore
Simon.
I would have no idea why the pipe has a bend in the middle of the lubeoil storage tank, I can see nothing there which necessitates such a bend.
Tore
Dorsal view of the EngineThe valve rocker arms are pivoting on a shaft fixed to the rockerarm support, thus you don`t lubricate the two points. The small excessive painted knobs could be small nuts locking the shafts to the supports.
To be able to increase the detail and accurate of my drawing of the engine, I need to draw the dorsal view at the same time, so I am going to start this today and here are my first round of questions.
1. On the rocker arm the left arrow is this just a casting mark? Or is there something missing?
2. Right arrow, I imagine this is a grease point, is this just a small nut?
(http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/7369/new5r.jpg)
Simon
It seems right to me. Knowing you love tiny details, the shaft for the forked end of the pushrod is protruding slightly out of the rockerarm on both sides, this to accommodate a small grove where you have a spring lockingring you know the type having a split fitted with a set of pliers. On the other side of the rockerarm on the top of the valvespindle is a special pressuredisc fixed by a nut locked by wire. Se picture below.
Tore..
Hi Gents
A little bit off-topic - I have found following (another) panorama - I think you will like it:
http://www.360cities.net/image/submarine-u-995-and-navy-memorial#328.70,-5.00,75.0 (http://www.360cities.net/image/submarine-u-995-and-navy-memorial#328.70,-5.00,75.0)
Just to remind another U-995 virtual tours:
http://www.deutschland-panorama.de/museen/laboe_technisches_museum/index.php (http://www.deutschland-panorama.de/museen/laboe_technisches_museum/index.php)
http://www.kubische-panoramen.de/index.php?id_id=5373&p=i (http://www.kubische-panoramen.de/index.php?id_id=5373&p=i)
And in the end, virtual tours around other U-Boats:
Wilhelm Bauer (Ex U-2540): http://www.kubische-panoramen.de/index.php?id_id=4602&p= (http://www.kubische-panoramen.de/index.php?id_id=4602&p=)
U-505: http://archive.msichicago.org/exhibit/U505/virtualtour/index.html (http://archive.msichicago.org/exhibit/U505/virtualtour/index.html)
Vesikko: http://www.360cities.net/image/wwii-nazi-submarine-exterior#338.20,0.90,88.3 (http://www.360cities.net/image/wwii-nazi-submarine-exterior#338.20,0.90,88.3)
http://www.kolumbus.fi/mika.ajomaa/Panorama_2.html (http://www.kolumbus.fi/mika.ajomaa/Panorama_2.html)
--
Regards
Maciek
I think you right, I am sure the Germans keep this valve simple. We just need a few more good photo
Hi Gents
A little bit off-topic - I have found following (another) panorama - I think you will like it:
http://www.360cities.net/image/submarine-u-995-and-navy-memorial#328.70,-5.00,75.0 (http://www.360cities.net/image/submarine-u-995-and-navy-memorial#328.70,-5.00,75.0)
Maciek
Absolutely gourgeous! This shall answer a lot of questions here we have a tool to solve a lot of our mysteries.
Well done.
Tore
Just to remind another U-995 virtual tours:
http://www.deutschland-panorama.de/museen/laboe_technisches_museum/index.php (http://www.deutschland-panorama.de/museen/laboe_technisches_museum/index.php)
http://www.kubische-panoramen.de/index.php?id_id=5373&p=i (http://www.kubische-panoramen.de/index.php?id_id=5373&p=i)
And in the end, virtual tours around other U-Boats:
Wilhelm Bauer (Ex U-2540): http://www.kubische-panoramen.de/index.php?id_id=4602&p= (http://www.kubische-panoramen.de/index.php?id_id=4602&p=)
U-505: http://archive.msichicago.org/exhibit/U505/virtualtour/index.html (http://archive.msichicago.org/exhibit/U505/virtualtour/index.html)
Vesikko: http://www.360cities.net/image/wwii-nazi-submarine-exterior#338.20,0.90,88.3 (http://www.360cities.net/image/wwii-nazi-submarine-exterior#338.20,0.90,88.3)
http://www.kolumbus.fi/mika.ajomaa/Panorama_2.html (http://www.kolumbus.fi/mika.ajomaa/Panorama_2.html)
--
Regards
Maciek
I think you right, I am sure the Germans keep this valve simple. We just need a few more good photo
Simon further to my last post. The u historia- Technica-Visita Guiada-Sala Diesel-Culata. The Culata photo shows the valvecage with coolingwaterpipes and valvespindle lubeoil pipeconnection and well as the valverockerpedestal (support) very clearly and would for sure help you.Simon
Tore
Simon.
It`s the nut on the top of the valvespindle as indicated on the picture below. May be you should add the lockingwire as well.
Tore
Simon.Simon
It`s the nut on the top of the valvespindle as indicated on the picture below. May be you should add the lockingwire as well.
Tore
In locked position 2-4 mm would be OK I guess.
Tore
Thanks, Tore.
I was able to found one of the nuts and the split makes sense. I will update my drawing in the morning. How wide should the split, about 2-4 mm?
Simon.
Further to my above post, below is a picture of the actual connections on the valvecage.
Yes Simon, the blue pipe on the picture below is a dearation pipe which shall lead to the funnels seen on you picture not the open air as on the photo. The outletpipe goes eventually to the common coolingwater discharge pipe from the engine I think outboard side.
Tore
Tore, I found this very small line. I can only found it in this photo and can not found it on any plans.Simon I assume this is the inlet valvecage (no cooling) in that case the small pipe is probably the lubeoil pipe for the valvespindle and sit on every inletvalve like the previous shown pipe on the exhaustvalve sit on every exhaust valvecage.(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/9219/new1os.jpg)
- What is it for?
- Is it on each valve cage?
- Where does the line go?
(source: U-995 DVD http://www.uboataces.com/u995.shtml)
Yes Simon I believe it end up in the bilge in the aft end bilge.Yes Simon, the blue pipe on the picture below is a dearation pipe which shall lead to the funnels seen on you picture not the open air as on the photo. The outletpipe goes eventually to the common coolingwater discharge pipe from the engine I think outboard side.
Tore
Tore, does the pipe with the funnels just run into the bilge?
Simon.Simon
Further to my above post, below is a picture of the actual connections on the valvecage.
Tore -I am happy to hear you shall continue you unbelievable work and looking forward to seeing the progress Christopher. I`m now back to the civilisation e.g. proper broadband after my annual 6 months summerstay at my farm in the wilderness of the deep forests. So Christopher shoot your questions I love to answer if I can within my capacity.
Thank you for the welcome back. In the Northern Hemisphere summers I am rarely indoors, so I have been away from this forum, but I come back. You folks are just too great to leave!
My compliments, of course to Simon and his drawing skills... He has done incredible work and I admire his tenacity and observational skills. As you know, I am working on drawings of a similar nature, but from a different standpoint (and with a different style) for the Bugraum, intending to put as much detail as possible in it. I am working towards the goal of perfecting my drawings and aiming towards making parts for cut-away models like I am prototyping. Hopefully other people can have as much fun as I am with my cut-away project.
Christopher
Simon, copper would be the natural material for the pipes however in last part of WW2 copper was hard to get in Germany and it could be they were forced to change to steel on the U boots built after last part of 1943 and onwards. I really can`t remember but if you look on f.i. the lubricatorpipes shown on the photos of U 995 ( launched July 22. 1943) it certainly is copper, so I would say copper depending on what model you go for.
Tore
Simon, copper would be the natural material for the pipes however in last part of WW2 copper was hard to get in Germany and it could be they were forced to change to steel on the U boots built after last part of 1943 and onwards. I really can`t remember but if you look on f.i. the lubricatorpipes shown on the photos of U 995 ( launched July 22. 1943) it certainly is copper, so I would say copper depending on what model you go for.
Tore
Thanks, as my drawing of a late war Type VIIC/41 I will go steel.
Also, I am total loss on the (fuel system ?? - Not sure if it the right name). I have no photo's or drawings of this systems of piping or things between the two rocker arms. I have no idea what to draw :( :( Any help will be very useful.
By the way it just started snowing again :o
(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8284/new1jd.jpg)
Simon, copper would be the natural material for the pipes however in last part of WW2 copper was hard to get in Germany and it could be they were forced to change to steel on the U boots built after last part of 1943 and onwards. I really can`t remember but if you look on f.i. the lubricatorpipes shown on the photos of U 995 ( launched July 22. 1943) it certainly is copper, so I would say copper depending on what model you go for.
Tore
Thanks, as my drawing of a late war Type VIIC/41 I will go steel.
Also, I am total loss on the (fuel system ?? - Not sure if it the right name). I have no photo's or drawings of this systems of piping or things between the two rocker arms. I have no idea what to draw :( :( Any help will be very useful.
By the way it just started snowing again :o
(http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8284/new1jd.jpg)
Simon.
I am not sure if your two overhead drawings of the fuelpump/fuelrack is representing port and starboard engine. In case it is, starboard engine pumps are different connected, they are turned 180 degrees This results that the movement of the fuelrack linkage is opposite that of port engine resulting a different endconnection to the servomotor and fuelhandle. I have indicated below what I try to explain.
Tore
Simon, I wonder why you have displaced the HP fuelpumps on stb engine in relation to the port. Basically the centerline for the cylinders are the same and placed right opposite to each engine. So each fuelpump is directly on the same spot on port and stb engine. The change of the fuelrack between cylinder 3 and 4 is simply a production necessity. The two engineblocks are just flanged together right here. The flange make it necessary to move the fuelrack pedestal to another position, hence the fuelrack coupling for cyl. 4 and 5. Se my pictures.Simon.
I am not sure if your two overhead drawings of the fuelpump/fuelrack is representing port and starboard engine. In case it is, starboard engine pumps are different connected, they are turned 180 degrees This results that the movement of the fuelrack linkage is opposite that of port engine resulting a different endconnection to the servomotor and fuelhandle. I have indicated below what I try to explain.
Tore
Hi Tore
That was a little trickily!! It took me a little bit of time to work that out. It was not a simple 180 ;)
(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/1909/engineroom1.jpg)
Tore, I believe you right the cylinder are center lines, but I believe the fuel pumps are offset for so unknown reasons.Simon I think I have found an explanation. The cylinder centerlines are matching on port and stb engine , the are not displaced in relation to each other. The camshaft is the same on both engines but turned 180 degrees on stb in relation to port, this can be done because port and stb engine have opposite revs direction. The registerdrive have to be fitted on the otherside of the stb camshaft though. The cylindercovers and crankshaft are turned 180 degrees as well which means the the valves ( except the center placed fuel injectionvalve) change place so on stb the exhaustvalves are forward and on port aft. The startingvalves are forward on stb and aft on port engine.This fit excellent with the camshaft. On the crankshaft the registerdrive ,and vibrationdamper have change place.This is a much cheaper way of building mirror execution engines. On you drawing the visualeffects would be positions of the startingvalves with rods, exhaustvalves with cooling waterpipes , thermometers and lubricatorpipes, inletvalves with lubricatorpipes. if you look at the Kubische Panoramen picture you can clearly see this. On starboard engine the rod for the startingvalve is forward of the HP fuelpump, on port aft. If you check on the top you no doubt would see the different places of the inlet and exhaustvalves.
If you look at two rods (number 5 & 6 - Marked on the photo), the port fuel pump is right next to no. 5 rod. On the starboard side the fuel pump is right next to no. 6 rod. You can see the gap I have mark on the photo.
(http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/5550/new2an.jpg)
(http://MiG442.imageshack.us/MiG442/6936/new2AL.jog)
I am in doubt about the valve you have placed on the control airpipe to the top of the valve, do you have a picture of that?
Hi ToreSimon, the crossection drawing behind your startingvalve drawing is one of the best I have seen so far. Do you have a full section? That could help a lot in explaining the various components
As I have no photo's of the starting valve system, it extremely hard to get a accurate drawing, so I am drawing the cross-section to help me in the other views. How does this look below? I am still adding detail to the drawing.
Thanks, Simon.
(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/159/new1jr.jpg)
Simon.
Cylindercover bolt/nuts
The arrangement and look of the cylindercover bolts and nuts migth be a bit confusing. The cyl. covers are bolted to the cyl. block by 8 bolts symmetrically placed as the yellow dots on drawing below. The confusing part is that you don`t see the two inboard nuts marked purple on the drawing. I guess they are placed in recesses under the exhaust/inletvalve rocker pedestals. The reason would be that these studs don`t go all the way to the covertop as they would obstruct the dismantling of the cover. Sleevenuts would be used to reach the shorter studs in the recesses and the top of the nuts shall be flush with the cyl. cover I guess. Anyhow, for your drawing it means, I believe, the yellow nuts are the only to be visible.
Tore
Simon
In addition to my last post the overhead drawing of the enginetop shows large circular objects between the cyl. covers inboard side. The engine is built up of caststeel pieces, the majors being the crankcase and the cylinderblocks. They are bolted together by mean of long tiebolts with nuts on the lower parts ( in the crankcase) and heads on top of the cyl. block. There are alltogether 14 tiebolts 7 inboard and 7 outboard, on the drawing 7 inboard and 1 outboard are visible. In order not to obstruct the fitting of the cylindercovers, the heads of the tierods are fitted in recesses in the cylinderblock, the recesses are covered by steelplates and that is the circles you see on the overhead drawing. By the way, putting the inboard cylindercover studs ( the short ones) in recesses makes it possible to accommodate the rockerarm pedestals on the top.
Tore
Simon, another small detail. It seems to me that you have made the fuelsupply pipe to the HP fuelpipe of copper, I believe it is of steel. The Laboe U 995 get a funny rusty look on the unpainted steelparts, see picture below where the steelhandles colour is identical to the fuel supplypipe whereas the real copperpipe has a different colour
Tore
Final? The details of cyl cover top. One item remains to be identified, the safetyvalve, which is a pressure reliefvalve and you can barely see the top protruding out of the cylindercover top. The place is indicated below.
The cooling watercock looks a bit strange, but it is because the function is you can lead the water out from the cylinderblock cooling either fully through the exhaustvalve (series) or partly ( parallel) depending upon the need.
Tore
Simon. Excellent, this is going to be the best ( except for the design drawings) drawing of the GW M6V 40/46 engine made ever. A small detail, check the diameter of the HP fuelpipe in relation to the airpipes, particularly the controlair branch to the top of the startingair valve. It seems to me the fuelpipe is slightly too large or more probable the airpipes slightly too small.
Tore
Simon.
Cylindercover cooling.
I realize we haven`t gone into details on this subject. The coolingwater enter the cylindercover via pipebends from the cylinder coolingjackets. The pipebends would the only visible part ( if at all). Out of the cover it enters the series/parallel coolingwater cock ( blue) which allow the water to go to the exhaustvalve cage, either partly (parallel) or all (series) depending upon the temperate reading on the thermometer, it is manually controlled.
The water from the cock then goes to the exhaust manifold coolingspace. The funny looking "spring" on the photo is, I believe, the handle for the cock, the springshape is a typical 1920/30 solution for heat insulation. The details to be seen are a bit unclear to me on this.
Tore
Simon.Simon.
Cylindercover cooling.
I realize we haven`t gone into details on this subject. The coolingwater enter the cylindercover via pipebends from the cylinder coolingjackets. The pipebends would the only visible part ( if at all). Out of the cover it enters the series/parallel coolingwater cock ( blue) which allow the water to go to the exhaustvalve cage, either partly (parallel) or all (series) depending upon the temperate reading on the thermometer, it is manually controlled.
The water from the cock then goes to the exhaust manifold coolingspace. The funny looking "spring" on the photo is, I believe, the handle for the cock, the springshape is a typical 1920/30 solution for heat insulation. The details to be seen are a bit unclear to me on this.
Tore
Hi Tore
I am trying to sort out this handle. In the photo below you can see a handle on the exhaust outlet between the flange and the water cooling pipe. Do you think this is the same 'spring shape' handle you are talking about?
(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/1286/new1yrk.jpg)
Simon.
Cylindercover cooling.
I realize we haven`t gone into details on this subject. The coolingwater enter the cylindercover via pipebends from the cylinder coolingjackets. The pipebends would the only visible part ( if at all). Out of the cover it enters the series/parallel coolingwater cock ( blue) which allow the water to go to the exhaustvalve cage, either partly (parallel) or all (series) depending upon the temperate reading on the thermometer, it is manually controlled.
The water from the cock then goes to the exhaust manifold coolingspace. The funny looking "spring" on the photo is, I believe, the handle for the cock, the springshape is a typical 1920/30 solution for heat insulation. The details to be seen are a bit unclear to me on this.
Tore
Hi Tore
I am trying to sort out this handle. In the photo below you can see a handle on the exhaust outlet between the flange and the water cooling pipe. Do you think this is the same 'spring shape' handle you are talking about?
(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/1286/new1yrk.jpg)
Anyhow I don`t think the end of the handle shown on your photo has anything to do with this, but is a handle placed on the opposite side of the series/parallel exhaustvalve cooling cock. For some reason not equipped with heat insulation handle
Simon.
A very good question. The green arrow point to the safetyvalve, if you see the drawing below, the startingvalve, fuelvalve and safetyvalve are placed on the centerline in the cross section drawing, which put a new question forward what`s in the place were we put the safetyvalve in the beginning? If you look at the drawing nothing protrude out of the cylinder covertop, and the object is outside the combustion space, e.g. cylinder. I`m inclined to believe this might be a cover for a castingcore opening in the cylindercover coolingspace. So I guess you can put the safetyvalve in the centerline and just indicate a cover where we erroneously placed the safetyvalve in the beginning.
Tore
Simon.
A very good question. The green arrow point to the safetyvalve, if you see the drawing below, the startingvalve, fuelvalve and safetyvalve are placed on the centerline in the cross section drawing, which put a new question forward what`s in the place were we put the safetyvalve in the beginning? If you look at the drawing nothing protrude out of the cylinder covertop, and the object is outside the combustion space, e.g. cylinder. I`m inclined to believe this might be a cover for a castingcore opening in the cylindercover coolingspace. So I guess you can put the safetyvalve in the centerline and just indicate a cover where we erroneously placed the safetyvalve in the beginning.
Tore
Simon.
Another idea struck me, probably more correct. The cylindercovers are the same on both engines but turned 180 degrees on the other engine. The watercooled exhaustvalves are forward of the inletvalves on both engines. Everything which are in the centerline are OK and need not to be changed. The exhaust valvecasing and the inlet valvecasing are identical and fit in both valverecesses in the cover.When the covers for the other engine are turned 180 degrees the only extra opening in the cover has to be the coolingwater opening for the exhaustvalve casing and that matches exactly. The plate in the cylindercover is the cover for the extra coolingwater connection to the exhaustvalve cage to be used when the cyl. cover is turned.
Tore
Simon.
Cyl cover- exhaustvalve piping.
Below is a picture showing my proposal of the piping, it might be the cockarrangement is different. This would be starboard engine, forward to the right. The cockhandle is on the other side of the cock and the ventingpipe ( blue ) is missing I believe.
Tore
Hi ToreSimon. As previously said the rocker arm pedestal sit on the top of the recess for the inboard cylindercover short studs so no fixingstuds can be place there. On the top of the cover is an "ear" protruding inboard and outside the cover. In this ear is a hole for the rocker pedestal basestud of some 20-25mm I believe. You can clearly see the "ear" with hole underneath on Kubische Panorama. On the other side probably a little closer to the pedestal centerline you got to have a similar stud, but that is a bit hard to be seen. Don`t be fooled by the small nuts for the guide positionscrews clearly to be seen. It might be there is a better quality overheadsketch somewhere to be seen.
Can you remember how the rocker arm base was attached to the head? I can see one large bolt in the front, are there any other bolts holding it down?
Thanks, Simon.
Hi Tore
Can you remember how the rocker arm base was attached to the head? I can see one large bolt in the front, are there any other bolts holding it down?
Thanks, Simon.
Simon. As previously said the rocker arm pedestal sit on the top of the recess for the inboard cylindercover short studs so no fixingstuds can be place there. On the top of the cover is an "ear" protruding inboard and outside the cover. In this ear is a hole for the rocker pedestal basestud of some 20-25mm I believe. You can clearly see the "ear" with hole underneath on Kubische Panorama. On the other side probably a little closer to the pedestal centerline you got to have a similar stud, but that is a bit hard to be seen. Don`t be fooled by the small nuts for the guide positionscrews clearly to be seen. It might be there is a better quality overheadsketch somewhere to be seen.
Tore
Hi ToreYes Simon.
While updating the drawing this morning, I noted that I had this rocker arm the wrong way around for the starboard side :( Correct layout below.
(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/8792/engineroom2.jpg)
Hi ToreSimon.
A couple of questions about the exhaust.Thanks, Simon.
- What is the flange in the middle of the main exhaust pipe for?
- Why is there a small pipe that link between the two bigger exhaust pipes?
(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/4258/new5pl.jpg)
Hi Tore
I have got some off-topic question. I know, that on KNM Kaura were some electric power points (outlets), which were connected to the boat's electric network (lightning circuit, which was powered by 110 V - despite of battery output voltage changes - by means of automatic voltage regulator). What kind of equipment could be connected to these outlets?
And one more question - do you remember, what kind of electronic device is it? It is located in the forward part of control room, at port site.
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/166/u995029.jpg)
Is it German, war-time? Was it installed, when U-995 served in Norwegian Navy?
--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
I`m not sure I understand you question 100%. If you mean outlet in living quarters, we had very few. Some could be used for transportable lamps but really no uncontrolled electric consumption occurred. We did not have any personal electric devices in those days. I t might be that later somebody installed outlets for waterheater and charging of electric razors. The only outlet we installed in my time was bulbs in the cabinets for protecting our best uniforms to go mouldy. I do not believe the germans originally had many outlet for personal use.Well, this is what I wanted to know. I was wondering, if other devices (other than lamps and ie electric heaters) were in use - for example electrically power tools (I know, there were pneumatic driven, but this is example). What kind of outlets were they? Domestic type (with some water protection)?
Hi Maciek.
I cannot remember we had any electric power tools except for a drill, I guess they were splashproof very much domestic types, but that could be norwegian installed, hard to say though as we use DIN standard as well. We used sometimes pneumatic tools. Otherwise I really cannot remember we used the few outlets very much.
Tore
Electronics in the control room. I`m a bit out of my field right now, but I believe the electronic stack next to the navigation table contains mainly the S- geraet (Sondergeraet fuer Aktive Schallortung ) active Sonar and KBD (Kristall Drehbasisgeraet) passive turnable crystal hydrophones which is passive Sonar. The equipment was indeed very much used by us as originally installed. Later however I believe they installed the Balcon Geraet which probably would required another electronic stack.
Tore,Electronics in the control room. I`m a bit out of my field right now, but I believe the electronic stack next to the navigation table contains mainly the S- geraet (Sondergeraet fuer Aktive Schallortung ) active Sonar and KBD (Kristall Drehbasisgeraet) passive turnable crystal hydrophones which is passive Sonar. The equipment was indeed very much used by us as originally installed. Later however I believe they installed the Balcon Geraet which probably would required another electronic stack.
It's interesting. So on board of KNM Kaura were installed both S-Ger
As I said in the beginning this is a bit out of my field so you have to take the info with a pinch of salt. I thought we had both but for sure we had KBD. The balkongeraet was installed after my time so after 1956. I am a posting a picture of KNM Kauras bow and showing how the relevant area looked like in my time.Thanks for your answer. On the photo you have posted, I think I can see the sender/receiver panel of S-Ger
Maciek.
As I said in the beginning this is a bit out of my field so you have to take the info with a pinch of salt. I thought we had both but for sure we had KBD. The balkongeraet was installed after my time so after 1956. I am a posting a picture of KNM Kauras bow and showing how the relevant area looked like in my time.
Simon I doubt this is the flange for the coolingwater it is too large and I presume we see the stb engine towards aft at the manifoldflange which is towards the exhaust manifold outlet end. I`ll see if can figure out what it could be.
Tore
Simon.
Very interesting to see how it is done, it`s a big jigsawpuzzle. Seeing you drawing I assume the black rectangle toward the pressurehull is the airduct from the main engineroom airintake valve. To me it looks as if it is one frame too far forward, see my drawing below. The reason for such a duct was that in bad weather seawater filled the airduct via the main intakevalve in the towercasing and water gushed into the engineroom, you didn`t want that water into the ventilation system so it was lead down into the bilge.
Tore
I have been collection a little information on this and I want to write this up after Christmas.
Thanks Tore for the help. I had to check the alignment of my drawing. For example I just can not add my engine drawing to my U-boat drawing as I have to make sure that pipes align correctly, bolts holes match and under decking pipes align correctly to above deck.
Below in the two drawings you can see I had to align correctly the engine frame bolts hole and the cooling water piping
Fig. 1. U-Boat framing.
(http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/3687/new2ac.jpg)
Fig. 2. U-Boat Engine.
Simon
Exhaustmanifold.
Below I have indicated the components your inquired. The seacooling water from the engine ends up into the exhaust manifold coolingcasing, with all the bends and pipes, air could easily be trapped causing problems with the coolingsystem, hence the rather extensive deairation, which ends up in a common funnel aft in the engineroom. On the systemsketch below the principle is shown, howewer as you see the practical solution differ slightly from the systemsketch.
The other item is the wire for remote reading of the exhaust temperature, for each cylinder, hence 6 wires. The 6 analog rectangular meters is very dominating at the manuevering stand.
Tore
Simon.
The " box" on your picture is the main startingvalve housing having 2 pipeconnections: one from the startingair vessel and then the main supply to the starting air valves on the engine with a branch off to the starting handle from which there is a pipe to the top of the startingair valves on the engine, plus a manometer connection. I have tried to indicate where the pipes leads, but you really cannot see everything.
Tore
Hi ToreSimon coming back to your remarks on the diameters of the various HP pipelines. First of all don`t forget we are talking about relatively low pressure 30 kg/cm2. The starting system consists of two pipe types, controlling - and consumption airpipes. If you see the supply air from the airvessel and the supplypipe to the startingvalves in the cylinders, the pipe is relatively large as it requires a lot of 30 kg/cm2 air to run a large diesel. The controlair pipe which is the small branch off to the startinghandle and further on to the top of the startingvalves have practically no consumption, it just put the piston on the top of the cylinder startingvalve a few mm down, thus a small pipe.
Going back to the air starting system. Orange 'X' is the valve a1. The blue line is the outlet pipe, but what is yellow, this is the inlet? It sence very big for a inlet pipe from the HP bottles?
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate15.htm (http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate15.htm)
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1847/new1vm.jpg)
(http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/5301/new3up.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img27/5425/70555640.jpg)
Fig. 1. Side view of new Air Starting supply piping.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img38/2172/35242985.jpg)
Fig. 2. Top view of new Air Starting supply piping.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img211/2825/19014294.jpg)
Fig. 3. New Air Starting supply piping under the decking. The layout is correct but the some of the piping and the
Tore, thanks for answer. Could you mark the location of head tank in conning tower (if possible, using this drawings: http://uboatarchive.net/U-570GeneralPlan.htm (http://uboatarchive.net/U-570GeneralPlan.htm))
--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
Tore, thanks for answer. Could you mark the location of head tank in conning tower (if possible, using this drawings: http://uboatarchive.net/U-570GeneralPlan.htm (http://uboatarchive.net/U-570GeneralPlan.htm))
--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
Maciek.
The head tank or may better buffertank is not a big tank,just big enough to keep a positive head in the system. It is fed from the coolingwater outlet at the exhaustsilencer, the location is about where I put the arrow on the drawing below.
Tore
(http://imageshack.us/a/img27/5425/70555640.jpg)
Fig. 1. Side view of new Air Starting supply piping.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img38/2172/35242985.jpg)
Fig. 2. Top view of new Air Starting supply piping.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img211/2825/19014294.jpg)
Fig. 3. New Air Starting supply piping under the decking. The layout is correct but the some of the piping and the
Simon.
I guess the most probable place for the supply from the 205 kg/cm2 mainline would be starboard above the floorplating. Looking at your photo showing starboard enginefront I have tried to indicate my proposal. Usually the small pipes are the 205 kg/cm2 pipeline and the larger 30 kg/cm2 lines. The indicated 205/30 kg cm2 reducingvalve has a handwheel, that could be a combination of a shut off valve and reducingvalve deviating from the pipeline drawing by making one unit. it is placed relatively easy accessable which makes it probable this is the HP main supply/reducing valve. The manometers hardly visible outboard starboard could be local manometers showing the supply/reducing pressure because the manometers shown at the drawing you would find up at the instrumentpanel above the maneuvering stand. Se my drawing below and remember it is a guesswork ( hopefully intelligent).
Tore
(http://img803.imageshack.us/img803/7841/graphic1ei.jpg)Simon.
Tore, we know the HP bottle ends are the same. Could the German had the drain line at the lower bow end of the bottle (15 mm pipe) and the air outlet at the stem end (40 mm pipe)? This could be why we can not see the 40 mm pipe in the photo above?
Tore, are the cover plates fixed by screws, bolts or rivets?Simon.
(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/8546/new1fp.jpg)
and is forced by the positive head waterpressure into a inboard measuring canister. You shut off the drain when water is coming, how much water you get in the canister is irrelevant as the only liquid your measure is the fuel and that is accurately fixed
Simon.
I guess we have to reconsider the whole thing. We have located the HP supply regulatingvalve, HP filter and the 205>30 kg/cm2 reductionvalve all placed on starboard side. Between these items are 20mm pipes. Out from the reductionvalve I have not been able to ascertain the pipedimension, but looking at the valvehousing I doubt if it is a 40 mm pipe out from this valve so I assume 20mm. We know that to and from the main startingvalve at the maneuvering stand the pipes are 40mm, thus the pipe from the airvessel should be 40mm.
The pipe at the forward end of the airvessel shown on your photo is definitely a full 20mm airpipe going upwards, hardly a drainpipe, the smaller pipe which can be seen could be a drain. I have not been able to locate any crossover. Unless you have any photos showing otherwise my proposal would be: The supply to the starting airvessels from the reduction valve on starboard side is 20mm, entering both vessels at lowered forward end, which means that the crossover is a 20 mm pipe. The separate airsupply from the starting air vessel to each engine is from the aft end of the vessel (as you was asking) to the main startingvalve on the engine. It is no 40mm crossconnection. Each engine takes its startingair from its "own" vessel by the 40mm pipe from the airvessel aft side, the 20mm pipe is only used for topping up (filling) the airvessels. The lay out is based on a direct reversible engine which has a large airconsumption (you have to restart every time you change direction of revolutions) thus the capacity of the airvessel should be for at least 10 starts before topping up.
Tore
Simon.
Yes, but watch out for the coolingwater returnpipe from the exhaustmanifold to the inlet of the engine attached coolingwater pumps in the same area, it is easy to get mixed up as they are of aproximately the same dimension..
Tore
Simon.
Yes, but watch out for the coolingwater returnpipe from the exhaustmanifold to the inlet of the engine attached coolingwater pumps in the same area, it is easy to get mixed up as they are of aproximately the same dimension..
Tore
(http://imageshack.us/a/img854/6962/87487006.jpg)
Fig. 1. Port Side
(http://imageshack.us/a/img13/4438/71648662.jpg)
Fig. 2. Starboard.
(source: U-995 DVD http://www.uboataces.com/u995.shtml (http://www.uboataces.com/u995.shtml))
Hi Gents
I was able to find following information: the diameter of HP air piping leading to starting air flasks: internal - 36,5 mm, external - 44,5 mm.
--
Regards
Maciek
Hi Maciek!
I guess the dimension fit pretty much in with the pipes in Simon's drawing.
Tore
compressed air was used to start Junkers compressor (though I have always thought, that Ju-Verdichter was started manually).
For starting up, compressed air is directed on the pistons brought into the outside position.page 49, http://uboatarchive.net/U-570BritishReport.htm
The yellow drain from the knifefilter is not connected to the system.
Very good Simon, it is quite a visible part of the engine so I guess it is nice to have it correct. I have not been able to establish the in and out pipeconnections on the knife filter. Some of them have connection in the bottom, others on the top. I would guess bottom towards the engine.
Tore
On Plate 10: Fuel oil compensating system (circulating water under pressure), the handle for valve 'B' are located within the engine room?
Hi SimonYes I agree Maciek, see my answer nov. 23rd.On Plate 10: Fuel oil compensating system (circulating water under pressure), the handle for valve 'B' are located within the engine room?
In my opinion, there was no need to make this valves operational from inside of the pressure hull.
Moreover, in the section Openings in the pressure hull of http://uboatarchive.net/Manual.htm, there
is no mention about shafts for these valves (either in diesel engine room as well as in Control room).
--
Regards
Maciek
Simon.
Fueloil compensating valves fuel oil saddle tanks.
The upper drawing you are showing is the system outside the pressurehull and I don`t believe the valves are operated from inside the pressurehull. The fuel/ballast saddletank 2 and 4 starboard and port are just made of light steel sheets and do not withstand any large pressure. They are equipped both as full fueloil bunkertanks and full ballast tanks with all the connections required. The encircled valves have two positions either in direct connection with the head/buffertank in the tower or in contact with the sea via a small compensatingbox in the bottom of the tank. As fueltank the first position shall be used to ensure the compensating head is allways positive but not exceeding the differential pressure (the hight difference between the headtank in the tower and the fueltank). Eg. irrelevant of the ambient pressure regardless the diving depth.
Tore
Hi ToreSimon.
Just letting you know that were will be no new drawings for the next few days. I am taking a break from drawing and catch-up on some other work.Simon.
Fueloil compensating valves fuel oil saddle tanks.
The upper drawing you are showing is the system outside the pressurehull and I don`t believe the valves are operated from inside the pressurehull. The fuel/ballast saddletank 2 and 4 starboard and port are just made of light steel sheets and do not withstand any large pressure. They are equipped both as full fueloil bunkertanks and full ballast tanks with all the connections required. The encircled valves have two positions either in direct connection with the head/buffertank in the tower or in contact with the sea via a small compensatingbox in the bottom of the tank. As fueltank the first position shall be used to ensure the compensating head is allways positive but not exceeding the differential pressure (the height difference between the headtank in the tower and the fueltank). Eg. irrelevant of the ambient pressure regardless the diving depth.
Tore
Tore, that dimension do you think this pipe would be? I was thinking about 75 mm.
Hi Tore, Simon
Take a look into quite old thread here:
http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=106.msg9557#msg9557 (http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=106.msg9557#msg9557)
Hi Maciek.
Interesting thread. I agree to your identification of the Kingstons. However the biggest pipe/duct is to my opinion too large for being a soundingpipe, in fact too large for any liquid. My suggestion would be it is possibly the main ventpipe joining the stb ballasttank 2 to the commom main ventvalve operated from the control room, it is only in use when ballast/fueltanks 2 port and stb are used as ballast tanks. The pipe is indeed pointing downwards, but the appearant heavy corrosion could have removed the support, anyhow I don`t have any other suggestion right now.
As the seawater compensating pipe is only supplying the same volume of liquid as the fuelpipe take out of the tank, I don`t see any reason that the compensating pipe should have to be of an other dimension than the fuelpipe shown on my picture above.
Tore
However the biggest pipe/duct is to my opinion too large for being a soundingpipe, in fact too large for any liquid. My suggestion would be it is possibly the main ventpipe joining the stb ballasttank 2 to the commom main ventvalve operated from the control room, it is only in use when ballast/fueltanks 2 port and stb are used as ballast tanks. The pipe is indeed pointing downwards, but the appearant heavy corrosion could have removed the support, anyhow I don`t have any other suggestion right now.
As the seawater compensating pipe is only supplying the same volume of liquid as the fuelpipe take out of the tank, I don`t see any reason that the compensating pipe should have to be of an other dimension than the fuelpipe shown on my picture above.
In the area of this ventpipe the max. height between the casing deck and pressurehull is, I guess, 0,70 m. If you compare the vent pipepipe drawing for fwd. ballastanks port and stb. plate 28 with the drawn frame hight app 15 cm, you would end up with a pipediameter of approximately 250 max 300mm, easily fitted under the casing deck and probably not too far away from the biggest pipe shown on the wreck.
Hi ToreSimon.
Just letting you know that were will be no new drawings for the next few days. I am taking a break from drawing and catch-up on some other work.Simon.
Fueloil compensating valves fuel oil saddle tanks.
The upper drawing you are showing is the system outside the pressurehull and I don`t believe the valves are operated from inside the pressurehull. The fuel/ballast saddletank 2 and 4 starboard and port are just made of light steel sheets and do not withstand any large pressure. They are equipped both as full fueloil bunkertanks and full ballast tanks with all the connections required. The encircled valves have two positions either in direct connection with the head/buffertank in the tower or in contact with the sea via a small compensatingbox in the bottom of the tank. As fueltank the first position shall be used to ensure the compensating head is allways positive but not exceeding the differential pressure (the height difference between the headtank in the tower and the fueltank). Eg. irrelevant of the ambient pressure regardless the diving depth.
Tore
Tore, that dimension do you think this pipe would be? I was thinking about 75 mm.
To me 75 mm diameter seems to be on the large side. I don`t think it would be any bigger than the fuelpipe from the tanks entering the engineroom as seen on the picture below previously displaid.
Tore
Simon.Hi ToreSimon.
Just letting you know that were will be no new drawings for the next few days. I am taking a break from drawing and catch-up on some other work.Simon.
Fueloil compensating valves fuel oil saddle tanks.
The upper drawing you are showing is the system outside the pressurehull and I don`t believe the valves are operated from inside the pressurehull. The fuel/ballast saddletank 2 and 4 starboard and port are just made of light steel sheets and do not withstand any large pressure. They are equipped both as full fueloil bunkertanks and full ballast tanks with all the connections required. The encircled valves have two positions either in direct connection with the head/buffertank in the tower or in contact with the sea via a small compensatingbox in the bottom of the tank. As fueltank the first position shall be used to ensure the compensating head is allways positive but not exceeding the differential pressure (the height difference between the headtank in the tower and the fueltank). Eg. irrelevant of the ambient pressure regardless the diving depth.
Tore
Tore, that dimension do you think this pipe would be? I was thinking about 75 mm.
To me 75 mm diameter seems to be on the large side. I don`t think it would be any bigger than the fuelpipe from the tanks entering the engineroom as seen on the picture below previously displaid.
Tore
I just checked dive video of U-352 and U-1021, and I found no evidence of this pipe. I think after 60 years at the bottom of the sea all evidence is gone :(
Simon
Seawater compensating pipes.Simon.Hi ToreSimon.
Just letting you know that were will be no new drawings for the next few days. I am taking a break from drawing and catch-up on some other work.Simon.
Fueloil compensating valves fuel oil saddle tanks.
The upper drawing you are showing is the system outside the pressurehull and I don`t believe the valves are operated from inside the pressurehull. The fuel/ballast saddletank 2 and 4 starboard and port are just made of light steel sheets and do not withstand any large pressure. They are equipped both as full fueloil bunkertanks and full ballast tanks with all the connections required. The encircled valves have two positions either in direct connection with the head/buffertank in the tower or in contact with the sea via a small compensatingbox in the bottom of the tank. As fueltank the first position shall be used to ensure the compensating head is allways positive but not exceeding the differential pressure (the height difference between the headtank in the tower and the fueltank). Eg. irrelevant of the ambient pressure regardless the diving depth.
Tore
Tore, that dimension do you think this pipe would be? I was thinking about 75 mm.
To me 75 mm diameter seems to be on the large side. I don`t think it would be any bigger than the fuelpipe from the tanks entering the engineroom as seen on the picture below previously displaid.
Tore
I just checked dive video of U-352 and U-1021, and I found no evidence of this pipe. I think after 60 years at the bottom of the sea all evidence is gone :(
60 years at the bottom of the sea takes its toll I can assure you, it`s 59 years since I came on board the U 995 and quite a bit has changed both to me and the U 995 even at the surface. ;D
I have studied the diameter of the pipe once more and reconsidered my guesswork. I believe your estimate of 75mm is not too far away, may be a fraction smaller but I should think you could go for it.
Tore
Simon
Fuel compensating saddle ballasttanks
The valve b is a valve only in use when you select the mode you want to use the saddletanks,as fuel tanks or ballasttanks. It is a double seated valve with only two positions either in direct contact with the head tank in the conningtower when the saddletank is used as fueltank or in direct contact with the sea when the saddletank is used as ballasttank. I believe it is controlled from outside the pressurehull under the casingdeck as it is not often used. I think it is a hatch in the deck for access.
Tore
Simon
Sea connection for compensatingpipe.
I don`t believe there is much of a screen. This connection is not for transport of any seawater (throughflow) it is merely a seapressure equalizer connection. The Kingstons take care of the filling of the tank. I`ll see if I can figure out something better tommorrow.
Tore
Simon
Fuel compensating saddle ballasttanks
The valve b is a valve only in use when you select the mode you want to use the saddletanks,as fuel tanks or ballasttanks. It is a double seated valve with only two positions either in direct contact with the head tank in the conningtower when the saddletank is used as fueltank or in direct contact with the sea when the saddletank is used as ballasttank. I believe it is controlled from outside the pressurehull under the casingdeck as it is not often used. I think it is a hatch in the deck for access.
Tore
Thanks Tore.
I have checked all my photo's and checked dive videos and found no evidence of these pipes. So this morning I started checking deck hatches and I think I can location the positions they enter the saddle tanks using the hatches. I will use this as my glide for the drawing.
Do you think the open end to the sea would have a pipe screen over the end to stop sea weeds etc entering the system?
Tore, one off-topic question related to the high pressure compressed air system. In general, compressed air flasks are connected using "star topology" - with high pressure air distributor as central/control hub. With this air distributor are also connected air compressors (even with two lines - one primary and one backup/secondary).
When there was a need to recharge air flask, after starting compressors, were all air banks filled at the same time or were they filled one after another?
And, when rebuilding air supply, were both compressors running?
http://uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate11.htm (http://uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate11.htm)
--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
Simon.
Mainvents fuel/ ballasttanks 2&4.
I had a closer look at the mainvents inlet to the fuel/ ballast saddle tanks 2 port and stb. compairing in it with a GA drawing of 1943 and adjusting it to approximately to your scaledrawing. When using the aft battery hatch as you use as the fixed point, it looks to me that your drawing has the mainvent inletpipe about 650-750 mm further forward than on the GA drawing.
See drawing below.
Tore
Simon.
Indeed substantial drawing work. A detail with regard to the saddletanks. I guess fwd and aft of the conningtower area the saddletanks have a sharp bend towards the pressurehull which facilitates the pipeconnections to the tanks, see drawing below. I don`t have a good picture of the casing deck in this area but I guess the deckhatches would give an indication of the location for the various deckoperated valves.
Tore
Simon.
Mainvents fuel/ ballasttanks 2&4.
I had a closer look at the mainvents inlet to the fuel/ ballast saddle tanks 2 port and stb. compairing in it with a GA drawing of 1943 and adjusting it to approximately to your scaledrawing. When using the aft battery hatch as you use as the fixed point, it looks to me that your drawing has the mainvent inletpipe about 650-750 mm further forward than on the GA drawing.
See drawing below.
Tore
Hi Tore
In December 2009 I noted that two plans had illustrate the aft Battery Hatch in different location. After doing a little more research on why the move the aft battery hatch. I believe they move it for the 3.7cm FlaK and the quadruple 2cm L38/43 U Flak gun support for the lower Wintergraten. I believe they did this for all Type VIIC/41 or any Type VIIC that had a lower Wintergraten with these big guns on.
http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=106.msg5416#msg5416 (http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=106.msg5416#msg5416)
Simon you are Right about the conningtower area, but just aft and fwd (frame55) of the saddeltanks have a sharp bend. Se pictures below showing the saddletanks joining the pressurehull forward and aft of conningtower of KNM Kaura. I guess you can just see the beginning of the bend aft of the conningtower on your picture as well.
Tore
Tore, do you have any drawings/pictures of the exhaust outlet control valves? I know that this area is very complex and I would love to add some of this detail.Simon
Simon.
That may be. I think I have seen a drawing of the compensating box in the bottom of the saddletank. See below, I made a rough pencil sketch indicating where to look for it you have more materials to look into than me.
Tore
Simon
Fuel compensating saddle ballasttanks
The valve b is a valve only in use when you select the mode you want to use the saddletanks,as fuel tanks or ballasttanks. It is a double seated valve with only two positions either in direct contact with the head tank in the conningtower when the saddletank is used as fueltank or in direct contact with the sea when the saddletank is used as ballasttank. I believe it is controlled from outside the pressurehull under the casingdeck as it is not often used. I think it is a hatch in the deck for access.
Tore
Thanks Tore.
I have checked all my photo's and checked dive videos and found no evidence of these pipes. So this morning I started checking deck hatches and I think I can location the positions they enter the saddle tanks using the hatches. I will use this as my glide for the drawing.
Do you think the open end to the sea would have a pipe screen over the end to stop sea weeds etc entering the system?
I think I may have an explanation why I can not found any evidence of these pipes. I previous imagine those pipes would run just above the pressure hull, but now I believe there is not enough room, so the Germans run those pipes just under the wooden deck. As both the decking of U-352 and U-1021 are gone, this is why I can not found these pipes in the dive videos.
Tore, when I was reading your post and see the words "The system consist of an inboard exhaustvalve in a watercooled housing going through the pressurehull." I just remember I have a few more pictures :) :)Well Simon I guess that`s it. I presume the VIIC and IX were pretty much alike on this detail. The cooling pipebends follow the same pattern as previously discussed, bypassing the flanges and other coolinwater jacket obstructions. Apart from these pipes every detail is hidden inside the pipe and housing.
These are of U-534 a Type IX.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img607/2984/new2my.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img818/1341/new1hu.jpg)
Simon. Interesting detail, it certainly could be the box, I only miss the pipe out of the box. The idea was to have a buffer preventing contamination into the compensating system. Howewer the most important pipe for that was the fueloil venting pipe which ended some 10 cm from the bottom of the ballast/fueltank. When fuelling, the ventcock was open and a guy watched the water coming out and stopped the fuelling when he discovered fuel coming out, but as the pipe ended 10 cm above the tankbottom you could never force fuel into the compensatingpipe as the fuel was flowing through the ventpipe leaving some 10 cm of water in the tankbottom saving the compensating system. This was before pollution and environment questions was a topic. Anyhow see to it that your fuel ventingpipe is not leading all the way to the bottom ;DSimon.
That may be. I think I have seen a drawing of the compensating box in the bottom of the saddletank. See below, I made a rough pencil sketch indicating where to look for it you have more materials to look into than me.
Tore
This could be that pipe on the U-534
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9379/new3h.jpg)
Simon.
Reverting to your drawing of the main ventconnection for saddle fuel/ballast tank 4 stb.and port. The intermediate valve is a blocking gatevalve for each saddle fuel/ballast tank permanently shut when in fuelmode. In view of a possible risk for somebody to ship this valve, I believe the wheel was removed.
Tore
http://www.360cities.net/image/submarine-u-995-machine-room#268.60,11.26,110.0 (http://www.360cities.net/image/submarine-u-995-machine-room#268.60,11.26,110.0)
Tore, a while ago we had a discuss about fuel filter and which one was a original fuel German filter.
Would you go for port or starboard?
Simon.
I would go for port, but that`s pure guesswork from my side.
Tore
Simon.Simon.
Reverting to your drawing of the main ventconnection for saddle fuel/ballast tank 4 stb.and port. The intermediate valve is a blocking gatevalve for each saddle fuel/ballast tank permanently shut when in fuelmode. In view of a possible risk for somebody to ship this valve, I believe the wheel was removed.
Tore
The blocking gatevalve is a special design as can be seen on the picture below. When open it retracts the disc ( wedge) 100% in the valve housing on top of the valve which mean the valvehousing is very high. The advantage is that when open it has a full flow passage as the valve disc is out of the way. For your drawing it means that the valvehousing looks like the photo below.
Fixed. Thanks, Tore.
Simon.Simon.
Reverting to your drawing of the main ventconnection for saddle fuel/ballast tank 4 stb.and port. The intermediate valve is a blocking gatevalve for each saddle fuel/ballast tank permanently shut when in fuelmode. In view of a possible risk for somebody to ship this valve, I believe the wheel was removed.
Tore
The blocking gatevalve is a special design as can be seen on the picture below. When open it retracts the disc ( wedge) 100% in the valve housing on top of the valve which mean the valvehousing is very high. The advantage is that when open it has a full flow passage as the valve disc is out of the way. For your drawing it means that the valvehousing looks like the photo below.
Fixed. Thanks, Tore.
Fuel/ballast saddletanks gatevalve.
As you see on the photo of U 534, the gatevalve obviously was shipped from another location, hence the linkage seen on the picture. However as
U 534 is IX we cannot assume the same on a VIIC. I guess till you have evidence otherwise it is better to leave the valve as you have drawn it. ;)
Tore
Simon.
Main drain valve.
From the amazing photos of U 534 is another component revealed, the details of the remote controlled main drain bottom valve. As can be seen from the photo below the valve is placed at the very bottom of the bilge, has as flanged suction pipestub and a rodconnection to the handle having a bevelgear connection to a shaft going through the bulkhead. The bevelgear is probably not applicable to the VIICs though.
Tore
Simon.
Crankcase doors.
Now we are really going into details, but I happened to notice some small discrepancies on your bedplate/ crankcasedoors. As you see on the picture below, the stiffening knees between the crankcasedoors are ending a bit higher up between the doors and the narrow end cover up forward is protruding further down than the ordinary crankcase doors. The narrow frontcover is just a plate. Crayzy details hardly noticed by anybody but mee. ;D
Tore
Simon
Bedplate
Very good! This is really a ridiculous detailremark, But have you noticed the stiffening knees between the crankcasedoors are a bit higher than the others? See below.
Tore
Simon.
Fuel drain.
The main fuel drain on the engine goes along the engine just about where the cylindercovers meets the cylinder block, it collect the spill from each cylindercover via funnels and leads to the forward of the engines joins the drain (yellow) from the knifefilter before it drain into the fuel draintank. It is no T piece where the fuel filter enters the maindrain, just a welded branch with threads for the connection.
Tore
(http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=921.0;attach=3085;image)
I am trying to track down this section of pipe that runs into FO Collecting Tank (Fig. 1.), where do you think I would found the valves f1 and f2 so I can location the starting postion of the pipe?
Simon.
Fuel collecting tank
Unfortunately I do not have pictures of all the components and I guess the systemsketch is not very complete. To start with the inboard venting and levelcontrol of fuel saddletanks 2 port and stb. see sketch below. If you look at the last photo of the fueloil system page on the U historia webside, you will see two L shaped handles up under the pressurehull on port and stb.side, these are the boardvalves for the inboard venting and levelcheck of no 2 fuel saddletanks. They are marked 7 on the photo and the pipe 8. I guess they have exchanged the L handles as the 2nd valve has the ball and the board valve not. Hopefully you have better photos than me to localize the details.
Tore
Simon.
Fuel collecting tank
Unfortunately I do not have pictures of all the components and I guess the systemsketch is not very complete. To start with the inboard venting and levelcontrol of fuel saddletanks 2 port and stb. see sketch below. If you look at the last photo of the fueloil system page on the U historia webside, you will see two L shaped handles up under the pressurehull on port and stb.side, these are the boardvalves for the inboard venting and levelcheck of no 2 fuel saddletanks. They are marked 7 on the photo and the pipe 8. I guess they have exchanged the L handles as the 2nd valve has the ball and the board valve not. Hopefully you have better photos than me to localize the details.
Tore
Simon.
I don`t believe the visual check is the main thing, you could better have a sigthglass. Generally a breach in the pipeline (funnel) is to eliminate a possible undesired syphoning effect in the system.
Tore
Quite a different topic - I have just noticed, that in the aft part of the control room, where should be located the hand wheels for the head valves of the diesel engine air induction trunk, ventilation air intake and exhaust, one of these valves - ventilation air intake is missing:
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6198/ventilationhullvalvesco.jpg)
http://www.kubische-panoramen.de/index.php?id_id=5378&p=i (http://www.kubische-panoramen.de/index.php?id_id=5378&p=i)
It looks like after installing Schnorchel, the intake of the ventilation trunk was blanked. Moreover, the foot valve closing this trunk in the diesel engine room is still in place. I suppose, it was left to allow drain the trunk after accidental flooding.
Generally, such arrangements is like ventilation system on the "Schnorchel boats" - U-Boats type XXI and XXIII.
--
Regards
Maciek
Simon.
Fuel collecting tank
Unfortunately I do not have pictures of all the components and I guess the systemsketch is not very complete. To start with the inboard venting and levelcontrol of fuel saddletanks 2 port and stb. see sketch below. If you look at the last photo of the fueloil system page on the U historia webside, you will see two L shaped handles up under the pressurehull on port and stb.side, these are the boardvalves for the inboard venting and levelcheck of no 2 fuel saddletanks. They are marked 7 on the photo and the pipe 8. I guess they have exchanged the L handles as the 2nd valve has the ball and the board valve not. Hopefully you have better photos than me to localize the details.
Tore
Fuel oil compensating system
Hi Tore/Maciek
I am trying to track down this section of pipe that runs into FO Collecting Tank (Fig. 1.), where do you think I would found the valves f1 and f2 so I can location the starting postion of the pipe?
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/7412/new2br.jpg)
Fig. 1. http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate10.htm (http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate10.htm)
Simon.
So far so good, but quite a lot remains and it is so easy to be confused. I guess the system layers is the solution as well as the check and completion of each separate system before putting it in the final drawing. The complete spaghetti pot shall be formidable, almost impossible to understand but the satisfaction of knowing it is correct is the reward. Keep going on the same track on your amazing project.
Tore
Simon.
Coolingwater crossover.
Looking at your above system drawing showing the coolingwater crossover, I came to think about the execution of the crossover shut off valves. All 5 are gatevalves which we discussed previously, I seem to remember vaguely 3 of the valves (center) were operated by a T bar from a hatch in the floorplating that would mean no handle wheels. On U-995 the aluminium deckplating covers all hatches but if you have evidence otherwise you should ignore my frail memory, if not, it might be worth while to check.
Tore
Hi
Take a look at the floor in the engine room of U-505 - there are a lot of these hatches:
http://archive.msichicago.org/exhibit/U505/virtualtour/vr_tour/movie_diesel.html (http://archive.msichicago.org/exhibit/U505/virtualtour/vr_tour/movie_diesel.html)
--
Regards
Maciek
Seawater crossovervalves.
Below is Simons photo of U 534 showing the extensionrods of the valves. I believe the valves were of quite similar execution on the VIICs.
Tore
Seawater crossovervalves.
Below is Simons photo of U 534 showing the extensionrods of the valves. I believe the valves were of quite similar execution on the VIICs.
Tore
Simon.
Sorry I don`t remember so my advice is based on a marine engineers assumption. Signs telling which way to turn to open or shut an ordinary valve would be superfluous in an engineroom. I guess a sign would rather indicate which valve the rod belonged to.
Tore
Simon.
Crossovervalves.
A small detail. I guess the valve spindles are a bit longer and it might be an universal joint between the spindle and the extension rod if you can figure out the details on the photo below.
Tore
Tore, how does this look like now?Simon this will do ok!
(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/7034/uboatpiping.jpg)
Tore, do you know if the wooden deck on KNM Kaura was replace ? Or was it the original German decking.Simon.
Hi Simon.
It seams to be very good. Seeing the hatch I just came to remember an intricate system of rods connecting the steelhatches to the wooden deck hatches so they could be opened in one operation. Anyhow this system was used for the galley hatch and fwd torpedo loadinghatch which were crewaccesses while alongside. Pictures below, on one of the photos you can see a guy operating one of the external valves from the deck by the T bar.
Tore
Simon.
Of course I don`t remember but according to a photo of U the nuts were out. See picture below.
Tore
Simon.
Of course I don`t remember but according to a photo of U 178 the nuts were out. See picture below.
Tore
Hi Tore
I was able to follow the FO drain line (below and orange), however, this is different than that you posted :o I am following the worng line ???
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3947/new1pks.jpg)
Simon
(http://imageshack.us/a/img688/7800/p1100225t.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img18/8756/p1100226f.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img831/5718/p1100227.jpg)
SimonSimon.
Of course I don`t remember but according to a photo of U 178 the nuts were out. See picture below.
Tore
New Camshaft covers, The old covers can be seen in the post above.
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6683/new2kp.jpg)
The other day when updating the Camshaft covers I had to used the side view to make sure I had the correct alignment. So I update a little more of my side view :)Simon.
(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/1259/new5it.jpg)
SimonSimon.
Of course I don`t remember but according to a photo of U 178 the nuts were out. See picture below.
Tore
New Camshaft covers, The old covers can be seen in the post above.
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6683/new2kp.jpg)
Beautiful Xmas decoration. :D Have you noticed that only the centercover has 3 nuts whereas the 2 others have 4 ? I guess you had the correct configuration on the old drawing.
Tore
Hi Simon.
It seems to be very good. Seeing the hatch I just came to remember an intricate system of rods connecting the steelhatches to the wooden deck hatches so they could be opened in one operation. Anyhow this system was used for the galley hatch and fwd torpedo loadinghatch which were crewaccesses while alongside. Pictures below, on one of the photos you can see a guy operating one of the external valves from the deck by the T bar.
Tore
Thanks for the pictures and information.
http://www.360cities.net/image/submarine-u-995-machine-room#268.60,11.26,110.0 (http://www.360cities.net/image/submarine-u-995-machine-room#268.60,11.26,110.0)
Tore, a while ago we had a discuss about fuel filter and which one was a original fuel German filter.
Would you go for port or starboard?
Simon.
I would go for port, but that`s pure guesswork from my side.
Tore
Hi Tore
I was able to follow the FO drain line (below and orange), however, this is different than that you posted :o I am following the worng line ???
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3947/new1pks.jpg)
Simon
(http://imageshack.us/a/img688/7800/p1100225t.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img18/8756/p1100226f.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img831/5718/p1100227.jpg)
Simon.
It might be two drainpipes to the draintank, fwd and aft. I don`t have a proper photo to ascertain the lay out.
Tore
Tore, check out this diesel engine :oSimon.
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/07/largest-diesel-engine.jpg)
Simon.http://www.360cities.net/image/submarine-u-995-machine-room#268.60,11.26,110.0 (http://www.360cities.net/image/submarine-u-995-machine-room#268.60,11.26,110.0)
Tore, a while ago we had a discuss about fuel filter and which one was a original fuel German filter.
Would you go for port or starboard?
Simon.
I would go for port, but that`s pure guesswork from my side.
Tore
Found evidence that the post side fuel filters are very likely the original German filters :) :) :) :)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img854/664/new8o.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img821/6198/new9j.jpg)
(http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/9030/new11g.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahle_GmbH (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahle_GmbH)
To all my readers of my mailbox.
With the picture of my farm in the wilderness, in some places we have up to 4 m of snow right now, I wish everybody happy holydays.
Tore
Simon.
Luboil returnpipe.
This valvechest is selecting which the luboil returntank is connected the engine. If you shut one valve the other opens, thus you have always a drain connection in the system.
Tore
Simon.
As usual the drawings are first class. The luboilsystem might be a bit tricky as there are so many alternatives. It might be easier to take the system step by step, starting with the basics..
Below is a colour sketch of the basic system leaving temporarely the secondary systems out. It looks to me as if you have introduced the luboilsentrifuge systems into the luboilsystem having pipes going through the manholecovers of the luboil systemtanks. I am not sure if the pipes were fitted on the cover. May be you should try to make a layer with the basics first and then add the other alternative systems later.
Tore
Simon.
Luboil connections main engine.
Below is a crossection drawing of the main engine showing how the internal luboil system works. A luboilpipe on the outboard side, (not interfering with the crankcase doors) leads oil through drillings in the A frames (red) to the main bearings where it goes through drillings in the crankshaft to the crankpin bearings, then down in the crankcase bottom and drains via the lowest point fore and aft to the external drainsystem. Hopefully you are able to trace the external supplypipe along the engine, unfortunately I don`t have any picture showing same.
Tore
Luboil connections main engine
Q2. On the plate 14 the 'Luboil connections main engine' line connect to the supercharger, this is incorrect?
Simon.Luboil connections main engine
Q2. On the plate 14 the 'Luboil connections main engine' line connect to the supercharger, this is incorrect?
Simon.
Contrary to the MAN turbocharger system, having a separate luboilsystem, the GW engine having a mechanical supercharger takes luboil from the enginesystem indicated on the sketch below . On the fwd end is a torsional vibrationdamper which needs luboil from the system as well, might get it from main bearingsupply no 1 through drilling in the crankshaft. Drain from vibrationdamper yellow marked on systemdrawing below.
Tore
Simon.
It looks OK to me. When you fit the charging air receiver below the exhaust receiver you probably don`t see much of it, but it is there.
Tore
Roots blower.
Below is a sketch showing the working of the blower. On the end you have a geardrive accurately timed so the rotors don`t touch. This gearbox needs the luboil supply.
On the photo you see a modern version beltdriven. Even today they have the external oil supply pipes.
Tore
What smaller pipe is a older version and will be update soon. I just need to workout what the valve look like first.Simon-
Also next to the Auxiliary Lubricating Oil Pump, are two lines named "FO Transfer Line", where do these go, I can not found where they go?
Tore, this section of pipe is mark as 'high pressure' :o should it not be mark as 'low pressure'?Simon
(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/2251/new3yi.jpg)
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate14.htm (http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate14.htm)
Simon.
Valvechests.
May be an explanation of a valvechest makes a difficult system easier to understand. As seen below the valvechest has 5 chambers, two suction, drain ( blue) and pressure, discharge (red) and three distribution chambers. There are two connections to the suctionchamber and two connections to the dischargechamber. By the use of 6 valves in the chest you are able to connect the various pipelines either to suction(drain) or pressure ( discharge) chambers.
Below I have tried to visualize how the system works leaving out the fuelsystem to simplify.
Tore
Simon.
I believe the valvechest for filling the luboil storage tanks is placed just underneath the main luboil valvechest as shown on the photo below.
Tore
Simon.
So far so good, I`ll see if I can figure out more details on the pipe. I am not sure about the valve/ pipebranch for the fwd bilge, drain/floodconnection, I thought it was more forward, port side of the galley/engineroom door.
Tore
Tore, times ago i came across a report about U-864 in the news on some italian TV channel and was wondering what was the present state of the mercury monitoring like. Obviously, once given the new months ago, no italian TV cared about updating people on the subject anymore. At the time the readings of mercury concentration in the wather were reported as normal, thus not posing a real threat to sea species. How's the story developing?
Off the topics.
Today the Royal Norwegian Navy is conducting a new investigation of the famous U-864, a IXC which was sunk by the Royal Navy's submarine HMS Venturer February 1945 on her maiden voyage 2-3 nautical miles off the Norwegian westcoast. All hands, 73 men lost . On the net are extensive details of a fascinating hunt for the U864. U-864 was on a secret mission " Cesare" transporting Messesmitt jet engineparts to Japan as well as 65 tonnes of mercury and the wreck was discovered by the Royal Norwegian Navy October 2003. She is laying in two parts at approximately 150 meters depth. Even today a German WW2 submarine is creating difficulties, as corrosion increase the risk of mercury leaking into the sea, up to this date 13 million US dollars has been spent to figure out what to do with the mercury leakage. Even with the sophisticated equipment we have from the offshore oil drilling it is a complicated and expensive task to raise it. Not to speak of the the fact it is a war grave. The fishing in the area is prohibited and a tug of war is going on between the local people and the authorities what to do with the mercury. May be the renewed investigation shall find a solution.
Tore
Simon.
Checking my morning post I see the 3rd photo of the luboil pumpsystem somehow did not turned up in the attached pictures :( , so down below it is. ;)
Tore
Simon.
Sometime the landscape doesn`t fit the map. My handpump theory is the hoseconnection for hand pumpsuction is placed near the main valvechest as can be seen on the photo below. The rest of the system is pretty obvious as can be seen on the other pictures, the blue colour had to be change into purple as it disappeared in the bad qualityphoto. Note the tiny details with the luboil consumption tank, it was topped up by the handpump and used for filling the handcarried oilcans (rockerarms lubrication) that`s why the two tiny cocks and the driptray underneath the tank.
Tore
Off topics
U 864 type IXD2.
For those who might be interested. The Norwegian authorities has estimated the cost of rising the submarine to be approximately 1.5 billion NOK equivalent to US
I guess you have a point Simon. However I believe this is the way they are doing it with nuclear disasters like Tschernobyl. the North Sea is like a Swiss cheese with many empty dry oilwells, why not utilise those wells. One of the tasks for the present investigation is to evaluate the condition of the mercuryflasks if they are at all movable. An interesting submarine detail is the way these 65 tonnes of mercury steelflasks are stored on board the U 864, they are stored in the box keel, I never realised they used the keel as cargohold. I bet the boat was pretty stiff at sea with 65 tonnes in the keel.
Tore
Heard somewhere that there were 40,000 set of drawings for the Type XXI :o :oIt could very well be, but I believe complicated pipe models were used as well.
Heard somewhere that there were 40,000 set of drawings for the Type XXI :o :oIt could very well be, but I believe complicated pipe models were used as well.
Tore
Simon.
I don`t think so. The main purpose of having an opening handle in an adjacent room (galley) is to be able to open the engineroom drain valve in from the galley in case the engine room was flooded. Under normal circumstances you could easily open the engineroom bilgevalve by the galleyhandle some 20 cm away. I believe we mostly used the aft bilge drain valve.Thus in spite of the systemsketch I believe this valve was only opened from the galley.
Tore
Simon.
I like it. A very small detail. Top cover of the coursefilter for the luboil filling line has a transom with a tophandle. You see a good photo of this detail on u historia engineroom section.
Tore
Simon.
Look good and easy to understand :D . As so many times before there are extra details which belongs to even a simple system. When you start to draw the enginedriven pumps discharge outlet you have the branch off to the reliefvalves which I believe you shall find way out to the port and starboard side. See your own picture below.
Another detail on the suction pipe is the weedblow connection on the seaboard valve and, as you love to go into tiny details, the small ball on the seaboard valve.
Tore
Simon.
Maciek provided a crossection drawing of the engine driven coolingwater pump some time ago. Below I have tried to illustrate the working of same. It looks as the pump has one common suction inlet and the branch off to the two pumpcylinders is intergrated in the pump (blue) the discharge( red) is howewer two flangeconnection on each side of the pump. The comparatively large red chamber is even extended by the bulb (damper) to dampen the pulsation of the waterpressure.
Tore
Simon.
In my yesterdays post on fuel fillingsystem I went a bit far drawing the conclusion of having discovered the fuel chest :-\ . The fuelfilling pipe, valves and the coarsefilter are OK, but connecting it up to the chest under the heatexchanger is a bit far fetched, I guess we have to go to the port side. I believe now the chest is the main cooling waterchest which is relevant to your last drawing of the coolingwater suctionpipe and pumps. The handles of the valvechest are without doubt seawater valvehandles and I cannot find any fuelmeter. Thus the fuelchest is still missing and probably hidden underneath the floorplates :( .
Tore
Quite a different topic - I have just noticed, that in the aft part of the control room, where should be located the hand wheels for the head valves of the diesel engine air induction trunk, ventilation air intake and exhaust, one of these valves - ventilation air intake is missing:
(http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/6198/ventilationhullvalvesco.jpg)
http://www.kubische-panoramen.de/index.php?id_id=5378&p=i (http://www.kubische-panoramen.de/index.php?id_id=5378&p=i)
It looks like after installing Schnorchel, the intake of the ventilation trunk was blanked. Moreover, the foot valve closing this trunk in the diesel engine room is still in place. I suppose, it was left to allow drain the trunk after accidental flooding.
Generally, such arrangements is like ventilation system on the "Schnorchel boats" - U-Boats type XXI and XXIII.
--
Regards
Maciek
Maciek, great found! I also noted this last week when I was updating my Schnorchel drawing and was wondering what it was. I was going to ask you what it was ;D
Q. Tore, the large funnel under the relief valves, would it just run into the bilge?Yes Simon its becoming quite a mailbox! ;D
Post number 1000 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
I not know why I forget this. Several years back I noted this and email Dani at u-historia.com. It was confirm that there is a connection between both control wheels. Updated drawings at found at
http://www.u-historia.com/uhistoria/tecnico/visitaguiada/ventilaciones/ventilaciones.htm (http://www.u-historia.com/uhistoria/tecnico/visitaguiada/ventilaciones/ventilaciones.htm)
I can not believe it! After spending all day looking at the Lubricating Oil System, I was working out one more original German pipe layout and arrangement :) :) :) :) :)
(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/1341/new1hu.jpg)
Thanks Tore. Its helping. Now only 1/2 lose :D :D
I have found all the pipes but this section in red, could it be internal part of the pump/engine?
(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/397/new2ao.jpg)
Here is my layout and the missing pipe I can not find :( :(Simon seems to be OK. The valve "f" is a two way valve, either shut to the cooler or to the engine supply pipe. The pipe out from the cooler has an ordinary shut off valve both are fairly close and fitted at the top of the cooler.
From that I can see from the drawing there are two inlets and two outlet for the CW pump ???
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/1760/new5zk.jpg)
(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/2461/new6sm.jpg)
Thanks Tore. Its helping. Now only 1/2 lose :D :D
I have found all the pipes but this section in red, could it be internal part of the pump/engine?
(http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/397/new2ao.jpg)
Simon
Part of the section could of course be intergrated in th pumps suction side, howewer we should be able to trace the valve. I`m still of the opinion that the pipe on the previous shown exhaust manifold photo is leading down between the manifold and pressurehull and entering the suctionpipe via a valve the somewhere down. The valve should be able to control from the floorplate hight. I`ll keep looking while it is your turn to go sleeping. :)
Tore
Simon.
One leap ahead. ;D On port side is a pipe ( yellow on the photo below) going vertically from below the exhaustmanifoldup to the top following the pressurehull all the way to starboard side where it enters the heatexchanger via a valve. I assume this must be the yellow pipe on the systemsketch below. Again I assume somewhere underneath the exhaustmanifold there would be a connection via to the enginedrive coolingwaterpump via a valve.
Tore
Simon.
One leap ahead. ;D On port side is a pipe ( yellow on the photo below) going vertically from below the exhaustmanifold up to the top following the pressurehull all the way to starboard side where it enters the heatexchanger via a valve. I assume this must be the yellow pipe on the systemsketch below. Again I assume somewhere underneath the exhaustmanifold there would be a connection via to the enginedrive cooling waterpump via a valve.
Tore
Tore, is the heat exchanger in U-995 original German? As I have never seen anything like this in any war-time photo's.
Simon.
One leap ahead. ;D On port side is a pipe ( yellow on the photo below) going vertically from below the exhaustmanifold up to the top following the pressurehull all the way to starboard side where it enters the heatexchanger via a valve. I assume this must be the yellow pipe on the systemsketch below. Again I assume somewhere underneath the exhaustmanifold there would be a connection via to the enginedrive cooling waterpump via a valve.
Tore
Tore, is the heat exchanger in U-995 original German? As I have never seen anything like this in any war-time photo's.
Very good Simon!
As far as I remember the floorplates were fixed by countersinked screws, I am no100 % sure. Anyhow the plates were fixed, imagine the rattling produced by loose plates.
Tore
Simon
Floorplates.
I really can`t remember excactly, howewer I believe they were of different sizes but could be handled by one man.
Tore
Simon.
One leap ahead. ;D On port side is a pipe ( yellow on the photo below) going vertically from below the exhaustmanifold up to the top following the pressurehull all the way to starboard side where it enters the heatexchanger via a valve. I assume this must be the yellow pipe on the systemsketch below. Again I assume somewhere underneath the exhaustmanifold there would be a connection via to the enginedrive cooling waterpump via a valve.
Tore
Tore, is the heat exchanger in U-995 original German? As I have never seen anything like this in any war-time photo's.Simon.
One leap ahead. ;D On port side is a pipe ( yellow on the photo below) going vertically from below the exhaustmanifold up to the top following the pressurehull all the way to starboard side where it enters the heatexchanger via a valve. I assume this must be the yellow pipe on the systemsketch below. Again I assume somewhere underneath the exhaustmanifold there would be a connection via to the enginedrive cooling waterpump via a valve.
Tore
Tore, is the heat exchanger in U-995 original German? As I have never seen anything like this in any war-time photo's.
Simon
Heathexchanger.
I believe it is the original. It is really a straight forward oldfashioned tube heatexchanger not the modern plate exchanger used today.
Tore
U 864 type IXD2.
For those who might be interested. The Norwegian authorities has estimated the cost of rising the submarine to be approximately 1.5 billion NOK equivalent to US
Simon.
I am almost convinced the heatexchanger and port circulationpump is a modification possibly made after my time. I guess the handle of the water handpump was a modification which was necessary as the wooden handle came in conflict with the vertical copperpipe. We still haven`t localized the luboil purifier which is supposed to be hooked up to the heatexchanger. It all very odd. I`m busy with the details of the coolingwater/ luboil system under the floorplates and shall possibly need a couple of days before I have some details on the subject.
Tore
Tore, what does this handle open?
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2992/new1wz.jpg)
Tore, what does this handle open?
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2992/new1wz.jpg)
U 864 final days is a fascinating story illustrating the last hard times of the german submarine service at the end of WW2. Books are written on the subject.
[...]
U 864 apparently navigated too long by the periscope and was spotted by HMS Venturer. U 864 realizing they were spotted started to zigzag. HMS Venturer decided to fire her 4 torpedoes programming it for a 3 D pattern fairly unproven. U 864 heard the torpedoes were launched stop schnorkeling and went deep, avoiding 3 of the torpedoes, howewer the 4th had a hit and U 864 imploded.
Tore, what does this handle open?
(http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/2992/new1wz.jpg)
It looks like handle for remote operation of the valve in the fuel line.
--
Regards
Maciek
Simon.
I guess you found the handle for the shut off valve of the return cooling water from the starboard exhaustmanifold. :D Maciek is of course right the handle has a fuelvalve shape, but there are no fuel oilpipes in this area and as we have seen before handles have been mixed. The excellent photo of Maciek shows a valve and a pipe located where the coolingwater return bend should be. As far as I can see, you`ll not find this extension on the port side, you find a similar valve at the end of the pipe leading to the strange port circulationpump . I guess this support of theory that the circulation system has been cut in the original system and installed later.
Tore
Simon.
While checking the pipesystems today I believe I have discovered a difference between the normal systemsketch and the actual cooling water pipelayout. The warm cooling waterpipe pipe from the exhaustmanifold does not lead directly to the heatexchanger nor to the pump inletpipe but to the main coolingwater crossoverpipe and enters just before the filter after the gatevalve. See systemsketch below ( I have only shown the port side). This means that the water is mixing in the crossoverpipe, if it should be used for the heatexchanger they would need an unmixed supply for the engine I don`t believe it matters if you mix it in the main supplyline or at the pump inletpipe.
Tore
Simon.
I believe the system so far is OK. Quite a reseach lays behind this layout as the system deviate considerably from the available systemsketches which I guess are from the early 40 ties. Your layout is more as the U 1308 would look like I should say. But there are more spaghetti to be put in the bowl! ;)
Tore
Auxiliary Cooling Water PumpSimon.
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/3721/91619551.jpg)
Simon.
Looks fine to me. I haven`t checked, but it migth be it is funnel and connection the to collectingtank as you would`t like to drain lube-or fueloil directly into the bilge.
Tore
Auxiliary Cooling Water PumpSimon.
(http://img842.imageshack.us/img842/3721/91619551.jpg)
The aux coolingwater pump looks fine as well. I don`t know if you want at this point to introduce the connection to the handcoolingpump,suction connection to the fuelcollecting tank and anticorrosion cock. In that case it is only the connection from the valvechest to the E-room which remains before the whole system is ready. ;D
Tore
Simon.
Handcooling pump pipe.
This is not far away from what it should be. I guess there were slight deviations between the various boats. When I, after a couple of years on U 995 KNM Kaura, changed to U 1202 KNM Kya, I noticed very much the differences, so I guess you have some play margins.
Tore
Hi ToreHi Simon.
Just a question about pipe sizes. I would had thought that the low pressure feed to the Hand LO pump (Purple Arrow) would be larger then the return (Green Arrow) from the Hand LO pump.
(http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7416/img1808pa.jpg)
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/2755/new2mu.jpg)
Simon
Luboil system
Further to my remark on the hand lub oilpump, I guess you shall find the dischargepipe from the hand pump has a smaller diameter until it enters the pipeline from the aux. luboil pump to the distributionchest port and starboard main engine system.
Tore
(http://imageshack.us/a/img844/9232/new1pm.jpg)
Fig. 1. Below deck.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img707/4733/new2cg.jpg)
Fig. 2. Above deck.
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/3513/new4ru.jpg)
Simon.
Looks fine, you have probably the seaweedblowing on another layer.
Tore
Simon.
I guess the chief pipelayout engineer would have approved this ;D . Just a maintenance remark, the gatevalve in the seawater crossover pipe has to have access for being removed. I haven`t seen the sideview drawing, but just be aware that nuts and bolts need space when being removed, so place the pipeconnections bearing that in mind.
Tore
Simon
Luboil filters.
Knife filters previously discussed.
Your question of today. The knife filters are not only fuelfilters, but are sometimes used for finer filtration of luboil. On the picture below you see a larger modern filter having an electric motor on the top doing the rotation. In the case of marine execution in the 1940 years I guess this would be carried out by a handle on the top.
Tore
Simon
Luboil filters.
Knife filters previously discussed.
Your question of today. The knife filters are not only fuelfilters, but are sometimes used for finer filtration of luboil. On the picture below you see a larger modern filter having an electric motor on the top doing the rotation. In the case of marine execution in the 1940 years I guess this would be carried out by a handle on the top.
Tore
Simon
Luboil filters.
Knife filters previously discussed.
Your question of today. The knife filters are not only fuelfilters, but are sometimes used for finer filtration of luboil. On the picture below you see a larger modern filter having an electric motor on the top doing the rotation. In the case of marine execution in the 1940 years I guess this would be carried out by a handle on the top.
Tore
Here my 3rd review of this pipe ;D Putting in the piping to the filters now.
(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/7862/new1ms.jpg)
Simon.
I guess the symbol over the finefilter is a differential pressuregauge. The gauge measure the pressure in the pipeline before and after the filter thus indicating the resistance and when the filter has to be cleaned.
Tore
Simon
Luboil filters.
Knife filters previously discussed.
Your question of today. The knife filters are not only fuelfilters, but are sometimes used for finer filtration of luboil. On the picture below you see a larger modern filter having an electric motor on the top doing the rotation. In the case of marine execution in the 1940 years I guess this would be carried out by a handle on the top.
Tore
Here my 3rd review of this pipe ;D Putting in the piping to the filters now.
(http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/7862/new1ms.jpg)
Simon.
Looks promising. a good thing you are colourmarking the pipes! ;D
Tore
Sorry, just more pipes ;D ;)
Tore, added the new exhaust to crossover pipe.
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/849/new2qc.jpg)
A small remark as to the cover of the luboil filter. You have generously fitted the cover of the casing with 16 bolts, I guess 8 would do. I believe the casing would be tested with some 6 bar and the relief valve would open at 4, so remember the poor maintenance fellows. :D
Simon.
Your last updated drawing.
Now you are entering into the small pipe stuff where the sky is the limit, ;D the manometer pipes are OK.
Tore
Simon.
I guess the reliefvalve of the exhaust manifold was installed on schnorchel boats. We had a few times experiences while schnorchelling that the relief valve opened as a consequence of dipping the mast and the exhaust backpressure became excessive. The engine room was filled with black unpleasant exhaust.
Tore
Simon.
The exhaustmanifold is casted like a double wall pipe the coolingwater flows between the outer and inner walls, at the forward end piece I guess the casting makes a double bottom, like a bottom of a glass thermo bottle. In this bottomplate is the inspection opening having a smaller inspection plate. The outer plate with smaller bolts provide a heatprotection.
Tore
Simon. Interesting detail, it certainly could be the box, I only miss the pipe out of the box. The idea was to have a buffer preventing contamination into the compensating system. Howewer the most important pipe for that was the fueloil venting pipe which ended some 10 cm from the bottom of the ballast/fueltank. When fuelling, the ventcock was open and a guy watched the water coming out and stopped the fuelling when he discovered fuel coming out, but as the pipe ended 10 cm above the tankbottom you could never force fuel into the compensatingpipe as the fuel was flowing through the ventpipe leaving some 10 cm of water in the tankbottom saving the compensating system. This was before pollution and environment questions was a topic. Anyhow see to it that your fuel ventingpipe is not leading all the way to the bottom ;DSimon.
That may be. I think I have seen a drawing of the compensating box in the bottom of the saddletank. See below, I made a rough pencil sketch indicating where to look for it you have more materials to look into than me.
Tore
This could be that pipe on the U-534
(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/9379/new3h.jpg)
Tore
Simon.
Compensating expansionbox.
As to my yesterdays post I have given it a second thought. I believe the device and connecting pipe on the picture is too small for being the box. Estmating the capacity of the tank to be some 12 tonnes of fuel I guess it should have a volume about 150-200 liters ( almost an oilbarrel).
Tore
Tore, I was thinking about the small box shape at the bottom of the saddle tank and next to the pressure hull could it be the echo sounder?
Simon.
As usual everything looks very good. I am a bit doubtful to the exposed manifold flanges. If I remember well they were covered by asbestos!!cushions and protected by an steelsheet plate, see yarddrawing. The reason for That is the uncooled bare flanges gets very hot and a possible bursted HP fuelpipe might squirt fuel hitting the flange which immediately ignites.
Tore
Tore, I was thinking about the small box shape at the bottom of the saddle tank and next to the pressure hull could it be the echo sounder?
I'll check in the evening, but as I remember, echo-sounding transmitters and receivers were located rather near the keel. Hard to say what it can be...
Hi,Tore, I was thinking about the small box shape at the bottom of the saddle tank and next to the pressure hull could it be the echo sounder?
I'll check in the evening, but as I remember, echo-sounding transmitters and receivers were located rather near the keel. Hard to say what it can be...
Eberhard R
Simon.
Purifier.
Your picture could very well be a purifiermodule.
Tore
Simon
Purifier.
As you see it is a fairly sizeable piece of equipment...
Tore
Simon.
That could be, but I am pretty sure our two VIICs U 926 and U 1202 did not have the purifier as well.
Tore
Simon
Induction air system
Having read my post this morning I realize I should probably have expressed my shelf a bit clearer. The normal aspirated air supply enters the air manifold through two inlets in the manifold before going to the inletvalves. These two inlets are shut when the blower is connected by the blowerclutch handle. The fuel handle can not be moved to a higher preset filling unless the blower is engaged. Interlock prevents the startinghandle to move unless the blower is disengaged. All these interlocks makes an intricate mechanical system of rods and levers which I don`t believe you should bother about. As to the reversible engine. It is no direct connection between the reversinghandle and the blowercoupling handle except the interlock preventing the engine to be run astern with blower engaged.
Tore
I used to blow stuff up. I do not do that now...
Simon....
I learned much about blowing stuff up in S.korea... and blew up snow there.. It was winter there... and I admit I focused on hardware that N. Korea was using.... then I was sent to the Iraqi venue.. I am sure you would like Det Courd... orange line...with an electric explosive cap...
we sent snow to the bottom of he casm where we needed it. We sent metal to the heavens when we needed to. As a Marine, focused on my nation's goals... I did my work...
Simon
You are really going into the really tiny stuff, may I at this point reintroduce the adjusting nut locking string and the valverod shaft spring locking ring. I mean you have been inquiring about the lockingplates ;D . I guess it is the small details which makes it.
Tore
Simon
I got it. I have tried to read the text on the upper nameplate, but in vain. There are four lines of text, first and third a bit longer that the other. It does not look like a serial nameplate, more like an instruction, hard to say. I suggest you include both. May be you have means to decipher the text.
Tore
Tore, Check this out :)Simon
I overlay the Pressure Hull openings on the Engine Room layers. It great to see the openings matching 8)
(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/1741/new1eo.jpg)
Simon
The purple marked item s are the two pneumatic motors turning the grinding device for the main exhaustvalves.
Tore
Simon.
Roots blower.
The Roots blower is indeed placed a bit off the centerline of the engine as can be seen on the sketch below. The off center is towards outboard and make an improvement for the airinlet as well as facilitates the connection to the airmanifold.
Tore
Simon.
Roots blower.
The Roots blower is indeed placed a bit off the centerline of the engine as can be seen on the sketch below. The off center is towards outboard and make an improvement for the airinlet as well as facilitates the connection to the airmanifold.
Tore
Thanks Tore, will update my drawing today.
Simon.
On the British report of U 570. You can read an accurate description of the exhaust valvegrinding. The muffler valves are turned by the pneumatic motors, the group exhaustvalves are handoperated and the same is the Junker compressor exhaustvalve.
Tore
Simon.
On the British report of U 570. You can read an accurate description of the exhaust valvegrinding. The muffler valves are turned by the pneumatic motors, the group exhaustvalves are handoperated and the same is the Junker compressor exhaustvalve.
Tore
Simon
I guess you might find some details in your own photos as this one below. I`ll check for more tomorrow.
Tore
Simon
Exhaust valves
Below is the normal systemsketch indicating the relevant components. The first valve is the group exhaustvalve which is situated in the peculiar cast steelcasing inside the pressurehull. It is a hinged valve which is "folded down " like a flap. You find a very good photo on u historias exhaustgas page. On this picture you see a square shaft stud marked 4 next to the hinge. On this shaft you put a lever for turning the groupvalve disc. When this valve is shut eg. the valveseats are in contact, you are moving the handle, turning the valvedisc and thus grinding the valve.
Tore
Simon.Simon
Exhaust valves
Below is the normal systemsketch indicating the relevant components. The first valve is the group exhaustvalve which is situated in the peculiar cast steelcasing inside the pressurehull. It is a hinged valve which is "folded down " like a flap. You find a very good photo on u historias exhaustgas page. On this picture you see a square shaft stud marked 4 next to the hinge. On this shaft you put a lever for turning the groupvalve disc. When this valve is shut eg. the valveseats are in contact, you are moving the handle, turning the valvedisc and thus grinding the valve.
Tore
Tore, I still a little confuse :-[
So on the picture at u historias, No. 4 operate the grinder & No. 2 operate the hinged valve?
Simon.
As to the driving gear for the two components I would assume the shutting/openingrods are placed at outboard side of the exhaustpipes and grinding gear rod inboard.
Note this is an assumption, as I have seen no drawings or pictures confirming this arrangement. :)
Tore
Simon.
I do not think you have a handle for the grinding of the muffler valve as the rotation of the muffler valvedisc is done by the pneumatic motor operated by the LP airvalve in the engineroom, next to the airmotor. I cannot remember we had any drainvalve for the muffler, remember when surfacing the engines were started blowing the ballast tanks by exhaust, adjusting the backpressure by the mufflervalve, thus draining the muffler as well. We had always some water in the space between the mufflervalve and group exhastvalve but the water was generally collected in the drain chamber of the group exhaustvalve as shown on my sketch of same.
Tore
Simon.
As to the driving gear for the two components I would assume the shutting/openingrods are placed at outboard side of the exhaustpipes and grinding gear rod inboard.
Note this is an assumption, as I have seen no drawings or pictures confirming this arrangement. :)
Tore
Tore, here are the pressure hull openings.
I think:(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3929/new1pa.jpg)
- Shutting/openingrods are placed is inboard side (Orange).
- Grinding gear rod outboard (Brown).
- (Purple) is the Hull valve, sea water.
Simon.
The brown handle is a puzzle to me. I think I remember vaguely we had some grease distribution boxes outside the pressurehull, it could be a selector handle for the greasing point with the numbers referring to the points but this would require a bit research before adding it to your drawing. The other valve looks like an important sea valve but right now I have no suggestion, hopefully something pops up. ;D
Tore
Simon.
I do not think you have a handle for the grinding of the muffler valve as the rotation of the muffler valvedisc is done by the pneumatic motor operated by the LP airvalve in the engineroom, next to the airmotor. I cannot remember we had any drainvalve for the muffler, remember when surfacing the engines were started blowing the ballast tanks by exhaust, adjusting the backpressure by the mufflervalve, thus draining the muffler as well. We had always some water in the space between the mufflervalve and group exhastvalve but the water was generally collected in the drain chamber of the group exhaustvalve as shown on my sketch of same.
Tore
Yes, you are correct about the pneumatic motor.
So what is the "Brown" valve for? If you look hard you can see some marks next to the small arrow a "8" and "7" & "1".
(http://img802.imageshack.us/img802/7481/new4r.jpg)
Tore, I have added the two new linkages, and updated the muffler :)
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/8363/new1l.jpg)
Fig. 1. New drawing
(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/6039/new3d.jpg)
Fig. 2. Old drawing.
Simon.
I have been looking into the grease distributor theory the whole day, and I can not see any other device which fit into this handle. My theory is as follows one of the pipes end up at the shutoff cock before entering the grease distribution system. the system has to be straight forward and simple. On my sketch below I am showing.Thehandle spindle is bored allowing grease under pressure to enter a space made by a lantern space ring on both side of the packing,(purple) thus entering the hollow spindle through the pressurehull and into a rectangular distribution box on the outside. In the distribution box is a circular disc having bore in connection with the hollow shaft. The disc having shallow bores, except the bore to the shaft, corresponding to the outlets of the distributionbox and the bores contains a springloaded ball acting as a shutoffvalve for the outgoing pipes at the same time providing notches of the disc movement. The idea is to have full control of the supply to the selected greasepoint and that no leakages is entering any other pipes except the selected, thereby ensuring the selected greasepoint is lubricated.
this ended as a long story, may be the sketch is easier to understand.
Tore
Simon.
Excellent, for some reason I have a picture in my head that the distribution boxes were rectangular, but circular is of course easier, so leave it at that.
Tore
Simon.
The only item left on the valve question is the purple valve. There are two valves each symmetrically placed on port and starboard side. Both have a handle of the boardvalve seawatertype so I guess that`s correct. This rules out the single drain of the supplyline to the seacompensating head tank in the conningtower. The valves are not shown on any systemdrawings available to me, thus systems before the schnorkel. My assumption would be this is a seawatervalve installed on the schnorkel boats. The schnorkel air inlet and exhaust outlet would not require two symmetrical placed seawater valves in this position. When schnorkeling the dieselengine sea coolingwater has not been changed and leaves overboard in the normal way, trapped air in the outboard seacooling watersystem could cause problems. On the old systemsketches it is an outboard ventcock in the coolingwater space for both silencers marked "n" on plate 13 and pointing forward, this cock is not accessable during schnorkeling. May be the purple valve is a modification for the schnorkeling boats enabling venting while schnorkeling? Again this is only an assumption from me.
Tore
Simon
I guess the box you designed has a duct going down below sealevel to the outlet thus act like the sparkarrestor which is the last item before the exhaust goes overboard, otherwise the outlet outside the casing looks very much like the U 995 design having outlet above the sealevel as shown on the drawing below.
Tore
When the map doesn`t match with the terrain it is usually an advantage to follow the terrain. In this case we have definitely two objects being genuine seaboardvalves having a construction of important valves, I cannot imaging any other purpose for these valve at that place. On the other hand the German "grundlichgkeit" makes it difficult to understand why these important valves are not shown on any drawings showing the MAN or GW systems way back in time, after all this is not a late war thing, but basic submarine design. It puzzles me, may be I have overlooked something, am I getting too old? ??? .Perhaps there is a drawing map to lead us back to the path... but there are those of us who enjoy thinking beyond a drawn black and white image.
Tore
Simon.
I guess not if the outlet is submerged all the time. I would assume however that there would be a kind of sparkarrestor in the box indicated by you.
Below a photo showing the exhaustoutlet of the KNM Kaura at the handing over to the Germans as U 995 Oct 2. 1971.
Tore
Simon.
I have to confess I didn`t like my yesterdays assumption of the purple valve very much. Having another look at the outboard coolingwater system it struck me the pipes as drawn on plate 13 allows full direct seaconnection to the system all the time. I do not remember the system of course, but no way you allow full seawater pressure to the inside of a submarine without a shut of valve (depthcharging- deepdiving etc.) My revised theory would be, the purple valve marked correctly as a board seawater valve equipped as an important valve with a grease cup and a shut/open indicator could be the sea coolingwater shut off valve. The most likely place to install such a valve would be in the coolingwater bend crossing the flange of the group exhaustvalve to the mufflervalve housing. This is pretty close to the drawn purple valve. Below is my sketch showing the assumed valve. Repeating my shelf, this is an assumption. The drawback of the theory is that the germans have omitted this essential valve on all the systemsketches, that is hardly to believe. ;) Open for any other ideas but the system has to be capable of being shut of from the sea. ;D
Tore
The fuel/ballast tanks no 2 port and starboard have a residual venting. The venting of the fuel/ballast tanks are usually operated from the controlroom. In the fuel mode the ballasttanks 2 and 4 port and starboard are separated by gatevalves operated from deck. However the venting ducts have an emergency shut valve Right at the merger of the ventduct and the saddletank. The philosophy is that in case of damage to the ventingducts you should shut the the emergency vent valves to save the buoyancy of the saddletanks. The same philosophy must be valid for the residue venting as well, but I have found no mentioning in the literature of these emergency valves in the aft part of fuel/ ballast tanks 2 port and starboard. My conclusion is nevertheless: the purple elaborate and important valves are the emergency shut off valves for the residual venting duct of the fuel/ballasttanks 2 port and starboard. As a proof I show a picture of the emergency shut of valves for ballast/fuel tanks 4 port and starboard operated from the controlroom, as you see they are identical only the handle is removed.
An den Austritten der Entl
Simon.
The last and may be most complex item on this topic is probably the group exhaust coolingwater piping. The system sketches gives the impression that the internal coolingwater system is subjected to full seawaterpressure which is an impossibility. Based upon limited available sketches and photos I have have made the following proposal: It is a shut of seavalve fitted on the group exhaust valve housing at the side of the double walled drainspace. On the u historia photo of the group exhaust valve, it is the biggest valve having pipeconnection marked 6. The double walled cast steel group exhaust valvehousing can for sure take the max seawaterpressure. All the other items in the internal coolingwater system you want to have behind this shut off valve. The more flanges packings and stuffingboxes which are subjected to exessive pressure the more risk you have for serious or even fatal leakages. The valve housing consist of 3 parts, the main housing, the endcover and an exhaust manifold transmissionflange. The latter two have to be cooled as well and as they should be behind the main seavalve, it would require some unusual pipings. On the sketch below you see my proposal, the only pipe I have not been able to get confirmed is the top pipebend for the coolingwater from the exhaust manifold to the transmission flange.
As so many times before the real execution deviates a bit from the systems sketches, they just show the principle, not the execution. I have to finish off with my reservation: this is a proposal. ;D
Tore
'T' handles hatches within the floor plating
(http://imageshack.us/a/img341/7719/new3p.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img829/307/new4be.jpg)
I am just blown away by the technical knowledge of the contributers on this forum.
I bet with everyones combined knowledge here we could actually build a real U-boat!
All we would need is a wealthy, slightly off, financier like the gentleman building Titanic II, and lots of young muscle ;)
Seriously though, just amazed by the information and knowledge contributed on this forum.
Simon.
Slowly but steady approaching the complete arrangement. ;D I noticed the frames at the group exhaustvalve hull outlet have a larger distance to accommodate a large flange and that the hullpassage is a bit different from what assumed. I shall try to figure out further details. Below I have tried to indicate the coolingwater pipes.
Tore
Simon
I have tried to find the photo Exhaustmanifold jpg. but in vain. Seems to be too many photos and no system could you just show it?
Tore
Simon.
You have even introduced the grease connections on the group exhaust valve. I assume the pipes goes to a distributionpoint which is fed by the greasepump on the aft bulkhead. The manometer is of course mandatory on this point. Good work!
Tore
Simon.
Manometer-
Thanks. I don`t believe this has anything to do with the exhaustmanifold. The manometer is marked at 12 atu which is the normal working pressure for the LP air supply. I
would assume it is the supply air for the main engine clutches.
Tore
Simon.
Deckplates.
I checked a photo I had of the plates of u 995 presumeably from 1965- 70 so most probably in the original execution. An accurate position of the deck operated valves are hard to established, but a view of the diamond shaped pattern is quite clear. Another detail is the step down which seems to be aft of the vibration damper.
Tore
Simon.
The visible bolt on the exhaust/ inletvalve pedestal is taking the peak of the load but I am sure there must be a bolt on the other side. Normally it should be a bolt of the same size, but this second bolt could from a stress point of view be smaller although that would be unconventional. I`ll keep looking to see if I can find a solution.
Tore
Simon
We are entering a gray zone for me, I can not remember how the airduct from the Roots blower is entering the airmanifold. It is annoying because I my shelf dismantled the blower entirely ( some 60 years ago) :) . I have superimposed your drawing on top of a layout drawing to figure out the arrangement. The confusion is on an appearant large ( yellow coloured ) square opening which I thought would be the inlet to the manifold. I just show you the picture may be you have more materials helping you to figure out the connection.
Tore
Simon
The exhaust / inlet valve pedestal.
Having checked the photos once more I believe the most probable way of fixing the pedestal would be two bolts, the one inboard is obvious and the other most probably in the open area as shown on the sketch. In addition each pedestal has two location pins as can be seen on the photo.
Tore
Tore, just finishing off lose end of pipes in my drawing.Simon.
I was wondering about this line. Is it a vent line? And went does it go?
(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/7338/new1gl.jpg)
Tore, just checking about this line; drain line from the reducing valve and running to the dirty oil tank?Simon.
(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/7618/new2km.jpg)
Simon.
Luboil reducing valve.
Are you sure this line is for draining and not manometer?-
Tore
Tore, just finishing off lose end of pipes in my drawing.Simon.
I was wondering about this line. Is it a vent line? And went does it go?
(http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/7338/new1gl.jpg)
I do not believe it is a ventpipe because it is too low and has no shut off cocks. If you look at plate 13 you`ll see a coolingwater pipe going along the engine inboard. There is no such pipe on the engine, I believe it soul go outboard and is the pipe discussed marked red below. As the pipe has a flow of coolingwater it is hooked up to the outlet somehow, plate 13 does not fit very well, but I guess it connect somewhere down in the bilge close to the aft bulkhead, I guess we have to look in this area.
Tore
Simon.
Luboil reducing valve.
I guess the pipe is a manometerpipe. Below is the system, there are two small pipe connections on the reducing valve, the large is the returnpipe to the system oiltank joining the overflowpipe from the luboil cooler and the luboilpump (yellow). The smaller pipe must be a manometerpipe, you want definitely to know that this important valve works with the correct pressure. There is a manometer at the end of the engine as well.
Tore
Simon.
The pipe marked with yellow question marks is the main coolingwater supplypipe to the engine...
Simon.
As far as I can see you got it allright...
Simon.
Your pipe system seems to be OK to me. Just a matter of days before we can start up! ;D
Tore
Simon.
The pipes for the differential oilfilter manometer are placed where they should be. To me they look a bit larger than the impression I had, they do not deliver any oil like the pipe to the servo, just static pressure. I believe they were small copperpipes.
Tore
Simon.
I just had a look at your manometerpipe for the supercharger manometer and I guess that would be about the right dimension.
Tore
Simon.
If you look at the photos from U-995, the way they are bend and those which are broken or disconnected I would assume they are copperpipes.
Tore
Simon.
I guess the nuts and cocks of the 15 mm pipes are all brass. The luboil filter differential manometer has two inlets and cocks for the pipes in and out of the filter. See photo below.
Simon.
Looks very good, I have just a few minor remarks. The header collectingpipe is partly of copper, I believe it is steel all the way. The venting pipe from the cooling waterpipe crossing the exhaust manifold flanges seems to be on the large side, I believe the upper branch off are small venting pipes which normally should not be connected to the cooling watersystem but the drainfunnel. The branchoffs from the lower coolingwater bends are drain.
Tore
Simon.
Instead of connecting the exhaust manifold cooling bend ventpipe to the manifold coolingwater outlet pipe, I guess it should end in the drainfunnel. The header cooling waterpipe might be connected to the same place as the ventpipe instead.
Tore
Exhuast Outlets update(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/7012/new1jy.jpg)
- Added better shading.
- Added casting seams.
- Added temperature sensors.
Simon.
It was late yesterday I understand your confusion ;) . Below are pictures which possibly explain the system. The exhaust manifold has two types of cooling water bends crossing the flanges, upper and lower. Upper bends have a small ventingpipe, yellow, may be 20 mm. As all ventingpipes are placed on the highest point in the system and goes to a drainfunnel, you don`t introduce the air into the system again. The lower pipebends have drains on the lowest point, violet, these small pipes may be 30mm, join the header pipe,red, before they merge the main coolingoutlet of the exhaustmanifold and then eventually overboard. I have not been able to trace all details so the correction is based on common engineering.
Tore
Simon
Your drawing skill is incredible.... Well done Sir!
Christopher
Simon.
Have you counted the 55.000 objects?? :o I wonder how many the final result shall be at the end, however its not the amount of objects but how they are put together which is important, after all the thing has to work and I am sure it will in the end ;D .
Tore
Simon.
The pipe sketch shows two separate vent pipes to the funnel, but has not any exhaust manifold centerflange with cooling waterbend.The shipyard drawing shows a centerflange with vent connection nut and no pipe, but the two aft flanges have ventpipes on the upper cw.bends merging into a common pipe. To me it seems strange that the center flange bend do not have a ventpipe. If we assume the center flange coolingwater bend has a separate ventpipe and the two aft bend have vent pipes merging into one you end up with two ventpipes in the funnel. I would not be able to explain why.
Tore
the four bend ventings are connected in pairs and end up with two pipes and cocks in the funnel...
Simon/OldNoob
Exhaust outlet.
Looking at some of my old photos to find floodgate details I came over two pictures which I shot during KNM Kauras drydocking in 1953. The pictures although of bad quality show clearly the exhaustoutlet I guess. Remembering Simons question on the style 6 exhaust let I was astonished the my old U 995 seemed to have style 6 execution.
Have a look at my bad photos and the photo of present day U-995 with a welded plate on the location where I presume the style 6 outlet should be.
Simon/OldNoob
Exhaust outlet.
Looking at some of my old photos to find floodgate details I came over two pictures which I shot during KNM Kauras drydocking in 1953. The pictures although of bad quality show clearly the exhaustoutlet I guess. Remembering Simons question on the style 6 exhaust let I was astonished the my old U 995 seemed to have style 6 execution.
Have a look at my bad photos and the photo of present day U-995 with a welded plate on the location where I presume the style 6 outlet should be.
Simon.
I have enjoyed studying you amazing latest drawing of the main engines. As mentioned to you, I have some minor remarks knowing your are keen on details. ;)
It looks as if you have made the nameplates at the maneuvering stand of brass, they are of aluminium. See photo. - FIX
The inlet and exhaust valvestems have a lockingwire on the valve clearance nut. See photo. - I decide to ignore this wire this at this stage, it
Simon.
I guess there are about six access covers, may be one or two are in the batteryswitch compartment. Access would be needed as follows:
1. Sounding pipe for freshwater tank.
2. Sounding pipe for dirtywater tank.
3. Two valves for Limeconnection battery compartment
4. Two valves for natural galleybilge drain to engineroom.
Se pictures below.
Tore
Simon.
I guess you are right, we never made use of the limesystem. May be you should make the sounding openings as in the engineroom.
Tore
Warm washwater.
I honestly don`t remember. I assume the horizontal waterpump port fwd engineroom which is connected up to the system, see previous discussion June 5th 2012, was installed after my time. The warm water heater on the aft bulkhead in the fwd. torpedoroom next to the officers bathroom was definitely installed after my time.
Tore
Tore, thanks for answer. Could you mark the location of head tank in conning tower (if possible, using this drawings: http://uboatarchive.net/U-570GeneralPlan.htm (http://uboatarchive.net/U-570GeneralPlan.htm))
--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
Maciek.
The head tank or may better buffertank is not a big tank,just big enough to keep a positive head in the system. It is fed from the coolingwater outlet at the exhaustsilencer, the location is about where I put the arrow on the drawing below.
Tore
Tore, thanks for answer. Could you mark the location of head tank in conning tower (if possible, using this drawings: http://uboatarchive.net/U-570GeneralPlan.htm (http://uboatarchive.net/U-570GeneralPlan.htm))
--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
Maciek.
The head tank or may better buffertank is not a big tank,just big enough to keep a positive head in the system. It is fed from the coolingwater outlet at the exhaustsilencer, the location is about where I put the arrow on the drawing below.
Tore
Simon and Maciek.
I remember you had a question about the watercompensating tank for the fueltanks back in November last year. When looking through my drawingfiles today I came over a GA drawing of the VIIC/41 showing the 1944/45 execution. You are able to see the small tank located in towercasing on the sketch below.
Tore
Tore, thanks for answer. Could you mark the location of head tank in conning tower (if possible, using this drawings: http://uboatarchive.net/U-570GeneralPlan.htm (http://uboatarchive.net/U-570GeneralPlan.htm))
I remember you had a question about the watercompensating tank for the fueltanks back in November last year. When looking through my drawingfiles today I came over a GA drawing of the VIIC/41 showing the 1944/45 execution. You are able to see the small tank located in towercasing on the sketch below.
Maciek
I assume your question can be split in two answers. The pipes ending in a funnel are drains from the air ventilation inlet valves and main diesel inletvalve, see sketch below. The drain via sigthglasses ends in the bilge through a muffler and is checkdrain from the regulating and RFO tank 1 port and stb. and possibly also the check drain from the negative buoyancy tanks port and stb as I have not been able to trace this muffler drain in the fwd. controlroom, see sketches below. As usual the real systems are not a copy of the schematic sketches.
The drain via sigthglasses ends in the bilge through a muffler and is checkdrain from the regulating and RFO tank 1 port and stb. and possibly also the check drain from the negative buoyancy tanks port and stb as I have not been able to trace this muffler drain in the fwd. controlroom, see sketches below.
And one more question - do you remember, what kind of electronic device is it? It is located in the forward part of control room, at port site.
(http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/166/u995029.jpg)
Is it German, war-time? Was it installed, when U-995 served in Norwegian Navy?
May be I better take one question at the time that's probably enough for an old man. Muffler comes in a wide range of design, the basic for a gas (air ) muffler is it destroys the vibration energy so the air escapes without noise. I never looked inside the U 995 air muffler but I am pretty sure it consisted of some kind of baffle plates and the air escaped though holes in the outer casing. If you look at the photo of the Kubische Panorama you are able to see the holes. Below is an example how a muffler looks inside.
As the regulating tanks, are not connected to the pressure water compensating system , the pipes are used, when the regulating tanks are used as fueltanks, as air pressurepipes to the tanks in order to transfer the fuel to the internal fuelsystem, as you see it is possible to use this LP air to the saddle ballast tanks 2 and 4 port/stb as well.
Sigthglasses are used for checking the drain from the tanks like fuel, water, air etc. An important item, you don`t want to have fuel in the bilge.
Obviously if you used funnels for these pipes the purpose of the mufflers are gone.
Active sonar/ radar.
I think you are correct, I believe I can remember we did not have the active sonar. I read the article on the german radar development with interest and I can`t contribute very much except to mention right after the war it was a general distrust of anything related to german radar. In my time I believe we had the original U- 995 equipment. We tried it several times with very little success. The worst experience was up at Lofoten Island, Northern Norway an early very foggy morning. These island rise up from the sea like a wall 100- 300 meters and we surfaced just outside the islands which were impossible to see and we tried out the radar. There was no echo, so we tried the old fashioned system, the whistle, and got immediately an echo. When the morning fog disappeared we discovered we were about 400- 500 meters from an impressive rockwall. After that we discarded the german radar, probably unjust, but in those days the navigators were still very skilled in navigating without electronics.
Hi Tore,
thanks for your answers.May be I better take one question at the time that's probably enough for an old man. Muffler comes in a wide range of design, the basic for a gas (air ) muffler is it destroys the vibration energy so the air escapes without noise. I never looked inside the U 995 air muffler but I am pretty sure it consisted of some kind of baffle plates and the air escaped though holes in the outer casing. If you look at the photo of the Kubische Panorama you are able to see the holes. Below is an example how a muffler looks inside.
Thanks, I did not notice these holes - now it's clear for me.As the regulating tanks, are not connected to the pressure water compensating system , the pipes are used, when the regulating tanks are used as fueltanks, as air pressurepipes to the tanks in order to transfer the fuel to the internal fuelsystem, as you see it is possible to use this LP air to the saddle ballast tanks 2 and 4 port/stb as well.Sigthglasses are used for checking the drain from the tanks like fuel, water, air etc. An important item, you don`t want to have fuel in the bilge.
Obviously if you used funnels for these pipes the purpose of the mufflers are gone.
Well, I must confess, I do not understand it. How can the fuel or water get to this pipe? During which operation? And when the fuel (or water) get there, does not affect the muffler?
The matter why the funnels are not used, is now clear for me.
--
Thanks, regards
Maciek
The drawing is almost 1,60 meter and the quality is not great, so I guess I can only make copy of particularly required details.
If you are missing something just let me know.
Next few pipes...
Pink = LO Cooler to Coll & Dist Manifold
Violet = Runs toward the pump (which I can not remember it name).
Green = from LO pump to pink line.
Yellow = from reducing valve to Green line.
(http://imageshack.us/a/img854/9346/new1ce.jpg)
(http://imageshack.us/a/img803/8096/new2z.jpg)
While we are bracing for the snow and avalances after the best summer in 25 years...
Simon.
I have checked with all my photos and cannot find any confirmation of wateroutlet flush with the casing side. I would suggest you place the outlet inside the casing and not flush with the casing side as long as we don`t have proper evidence otherwise.
Tore
Simon.
I guess this shall work OK.
Tore
Simon.
I guess this shall work OK.
Tore
I started to more the piping for the Port and Starboard MB & RFO Tank 2 but the Blowing System for MB & RFO Tank 2 valves is in the way :-[
So, I will keep them in there original and just realign the piping a little :)
Tore,
New layout and I have added the missing piping for the Fuel Oil Compensating System.
On plate 10, the forward pipe from the tank, is it open to the sea?
The aft pipe from the tank, where does it go? Does it goto the muffler? Valve 'E' open to the sea?
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate10.htm (http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate10.htm)
(http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/3625/fh8p.jpg)
Simon.
The forward pipe of the headertank is the outletpipe open to the sea. The aft pipe is the supplypipe from the exhaustcooling coming from the aft end of the silencer. Valve "e" is the draincock/valve of the exhaustpipe going to overboard.
Tore
Simon.
I am not sure the connection to the silencer is OK. If you look at the sketch below it could be a bit more forward not to interfere with the drains.
Tore
The two arrows at the very far end could be for possible pressure equalising when submerged.
Simon.
Very good. Your absence at the Forum matches very well with my plans as well. I shall be leaving for Africa within 3weeks and stay away for a month. looking forward to return end February.
Tore
Tore/Maciek
Oxygen system within engine room. Do you guys know:Thanks, Simon.
- Where the manifold is located?
- Where the Exhaust Air Duct is located?
- Where are valves 'b' are located?
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate20.htm (http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570Plate20.htm)
Simon,
exhaust air duct is on the port side of the boat. Forward 'b' valve is on the forward bulkhead, on the port side of hatch, near the upper edge of the door (with blue handle). The oxygen manifold is located in the aft starboard corner of engine room - over the clutch piston is visible water trap and manifold itself. Over the hatch to electric motor room are visible two thin lines - I believe they are lines to aft torpedo room and to forward part of the boat. There is also one large pressure gauge - I think it also belongs to this system. I was not able to locate aft 'b' valve.
--
Regards
Maciek
Hello Mr. Tore,Don.
Thank you for the information and the photos... The photo labeled Q Tank Muffler explains a lot and I have a few questions regarding that photo and Plate 7 from the Skizzenbuch.
The Negative Buoyancy Tank side of Plate 7
1. There are 3 muffler (k) in the drawing on Plate 7
Q1 - Is there only 1 muffler as indicated in the Q Tank Muffler photo?
2. Plate 7 shows 3 valves on the Negative Buoyancy vent line; a valve near each tank and one valve near the muffler (no glass viewing eye).
However, the Q Tank Muffler Photo suggests there is a separate line from each Negative Buoyancy tank which has a valve and a glass viewing eye. These two vent lines are joined at a “Y” connection and vent through the muffler into the internal pressure hull.
Q2. Are my observations correct?
Q2-1. On Plate 7, should the valve (h) going to the muffler (k) be a glass viewing eye instead of a valve? This would make Plate 7 closer to the actual piping. Unless there are actually 4 valves; 2 near the Negative Buoyancy tanks and 2 near the muffler? The Plate 7 just doesn’t match the Q Tank Muffler photo…
3. The Q Tank Muffler photo has 4 valves and 4 glass viewing devices feeding into the one muffler. I assume 2 lines for venting from Negative Buoyancy tanks and two lines for venting from the Regulating tanks and Bunkers.
Q3. Am I correct?
Q3-1. Looking at the Q Tank Muffler photo - from left to right; which valve controls what?
Regards.
Don_
The main Pump - The manual states it's a reversible pump... However, I seem to get everything to function properly with the pump running in one direction by utilizing different valves to provide pressure or suction. Am I missing something? I will post a photo of the mail pump and could you point out how the pump is reversed and why?
The Trim Pump - I believe I understand how it works. I will post a photo of the pump and could you post a good photo of the Trim Controller.
MaciekThe main Pump - The manual states it's a reversible pump... However, I seem to get everything to function properly with the pump running in one direction by utilizing different valves to provide pressure or suction. Am I missing something? I will post a photo of the mail pump and could you point out how the pump is reversed and why?
Well, in the original text the term is: "selbstansaugende, umschaltbare 2-stufige Kreiselpumpe". I translated umschaltbare as reversible, but it rather should be switchable. Switchable - that means that pump's two stages can be connected parallel or in series - for great capacity and low head or low capacity and high head respectively. The switching took place by control valve.The Trim Pump - I believe I understand how it works. I will post a photo of the pump and could you post a good photo of the Trim Controller.
I have attached photo of trim controller.
--
Regards
Maciek
I looked at the photo closely and it looks like there are 5 pressure gauges (one under the red hand wheel) clustered around the main blowing valve. Would that be a pressure gauge for each dive tank 1 through 5?
In addition, on your photo labeled "untertriebszelle gauges" The large red hand-wheel is for one or both Negative Buoyancy tanks? I don't see the same configuration on the other side...
The water residue checksystem is a small pipe going down to the Kingstons and an internal cock in the CR ending into a small funnel, I believe you can see same on the photo of the port system.
Hi Tore,Hi Maciek.
thank you for your answer - that was exactly what I wanted to know.The water residue checksystem is a small pipe going down to the Kingstons and an internal cock in the CR ending into a small funnel, I believe you can see same on the photo of the port system.
Are you thinking about this line? I have marked this with green color.
I also marked lines which (if I'm not mistaken) fed differential pressure gague for Untertriebszelle Bb. The red one connects with Untertriebszelle Bb, while the blue one - with outside sea.
Unfortunately I was not able to find good photo with some cock/valve visible, which would cut off the residual water check line from the negative tank.
--
Regards
Maciek
--
Regards
Maciek
Hello Meciek,Don.
Would this drawing be correct?
Regards,
Don_
Yes your green line could be the residual water checkpipe. The checkvalve might be situated further up as indicated on my photo below. I am not sure about your assumption for the diff manometerpipes though. As you see from my photo it looks as if both pipes goes only to the manometer.Thanks for your answer, I think you are right. I did not recognize relief valve.
I am not sure, as the two systems blowing and venting is combined in one on board, this can be confusing as on plate 17 and 7 they are drawn as separate system see my photo below. The blowing system on plate 17 starts with the blowing valve (hand control valve) having air supply from the main distribution manifold. After this valve is the reliefvalve, a manometer connection and a drain. This is a standard package for all the airblowing system. After this system is a shut off valve. It seems to me as you have switched the hand control valve to this shut off valve. When the drawing and the real world is not corresponding it is usually best to follow the real world. It is almost impossible to check the system locally based on the photos we have available, however we can not see any plain manometer, but clearly a differential manometer which we can assume is hooked up as on the visible port side, the reliefvalve is visible so that is OK. The shut off valve I cannot see but I am almost sure it is there together with the connection to what I would call the common venting/blowing pipe.
As a final touch I should probably mention that I believe the external floodvalve for Q is not a Kingston, square flapvalve, as on the fuel/ ballast saddletanks 4 and 2, but rather a valve behind a large square grating next to the aft Kingston on ballasttanks 4 port and stb. On the photo below you can see what I assume, my first thoughts were that this grating was connected to the fuel compensatingsystem but I believe the above is a better theory, you can see the round valve outlet behind the grating. Thus I suggest you rename floodvalve driveshaft: Handwheel external floodvalve . As a curiosity I have found out that the flood area of these valves are 0.24 m3 and with Q fully blown you have a residue water in the tanks of 0,16m3, not much.
The negative tank flood valve is a mushroom valve opening outboard. The valve disc is provided with a screw thread, and is raised or lowered by rotating the valve spindle which is threaded into the stem portion of the disc casting. The spindle is fitted with a collar and ball bearings to serve as a carrier for the vent valve disc. When turning the spindle, guides prevent the disc from turning. The valve is operated by means of a hand crank from within the vessel.http://uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXC.htm
When surfaced, there are five persons in the control room. At battle stations, there are ten.http://uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXC.htm
Hi SG
The photo was made by a paper making a report about life on board a submarine, we were warned on beforehand, that`s why I was wearing an uniform with even a white shirt. We newer wore this at sea, as previously told my favourite dress was a pink pyjamas often covered by a greasy battledress and mostly my uniformcap . ;D
Tore
Is the Regulating and RFO tank 1 open to the Sea? A while back I had the understanding that this tank had fuel oil floating on top of water and as the oil was used it was replaced with Sea water (a Self Regulation tank). If so, then where is the opening for the sea water to enter the regulating and RFO tank 1?
It looks like there are 3 blowing distributor systems
1. the Main Blowing Distributor (Plate 17)
2. the Exhaust Blowing Distributor (Plate 16)
3. the Emergency Blowing Manifold (Plate 16 and Plate 17)
Q1. is this correct. where are they located in the control room
Q2. it looks like the Exhaust Blowing Distributor only affects D1 through- D5
Q3. It looks like the other 2 blowing distributors affect all tanks except Regulating Tank 2 because this tank has no flood valve and has to be pumped???
If there is a down U-boat and a diver hooks up the two lines in order to bring the U-boat to the surface, then all effort is for nothing if no one is conscious and able to open the Tide valves on D2, D3 and D4, and open the hull valves on ALL the other tanks???
The chief engineer is mostly stand by if something should go wrong and engineers would be required. During battlestation in our navy however, the chief engineer worked with the CO with distance bearing/ calculation. Down below is a picture with the CO on his knees at the navigation periscope and I calculating the distances during a dummy attack just to give you an idea.
When using the attack periscope the chief engineer was not in the tower but in the CR. At the attackperiscope the CO could get a lot of info directly, however we did not trust the German fruitmachine so the CE had to do some calculation passing messages up to the tower verbally.
The purpose of the compensating tanks is to compensate for the changing the weigths of the submarine. The weigth is changing all the time, extra people are coming on board, fuel, freshwater and provision are consumed etc. Thus you have to compensate this by taking water in and out of the compensating tanks fairly often.
Torpedo firing and the fruitmachine was not really under my responsibility, that was the torpedopeoples job, so I am afraid I cannot help you very much. I did only the manual calculation using graphs and tables after receiving the COs info of speed, bearing etc. We had a student on board from the technical university in Trondheim taking his master on this "computer" it was of course the prehistoric computertime, but I am sorry I cannot contribute in any sensible way.Thank you Tore for your answer. It would be interesting to take master on such piece of equipment (as well as reading such scientific description).
Plate 16 = I assume the 1 vent valve in the diesel room to vent the trapped residual air in both D2 tanks is located in the roof area. Do you have a photo of this valve? Are the venting lines going from the back end of the tanks to the valve located internal or external to the pressure hull?
To make it even more complicated to you, the MBT 2 and 4 port and stb. have a 3rd valve in the ventduct outside the pressurehull, these are gatevalves and used for shutting off the tanks while used as fuel bunkertanks. The gatevalves are placed outside the pressurehull under the casing and are not operated from inside the pressurehull thus not valvewheels in the engineroom which is according to plan16.Accidentally I have found something related with the gate valves. See this Deutsche Wochenschau: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqdvK2ZtxoA , since 7:30. The reader says something like: Bei schwerer Wetter muß ein Tauchbunker aufgestellt werden. I think, that camera operator recorded operation of converting Tauchbunker from fuel tank to ballast tank mode, when the crew member opened gate valve on the venting duct.
Hi Simon,
It looks like the crewman is holding a "T" bar tool with a collar on the end of the shaft with a recessed square for fitting over the screw to unlock the access door (the tool)in the deck to the valve below. the crewman also has a 2nd tool in his hand that looks like a double hook with a square cut-out to access the valve (The tool 2). I'm not sure why it was designed like that? Am I right on this? (see photos)
Regards,
Don
The mushroom valve at the bottom of Q tank were left open after an express. Now, as the U-boat dives to a greater depth, the water pressure compresses the air in the tank and could causes the tank to burst. I can see the same situation happening if the mushroom valve were leaking.
Diving question - as the U-boat goes to a greater depth the actual volume of the pressure hull decreases because of external pressure, and this changes the neutral buoyancy to a negative buoyancy. Is anything done to adjust for the loss in buoyancy internally like pumping out water from Regulating tank 2?
http://uboatarchive.net/DivingRegulations.htm
181. To proceed to great depths (more than 40 meters), the Engineering Officer gives the depth order and the depth changes in increments of 10 meters to all rooms verbally man to man.
Because the boat loses volume at greater depth, it must be made lighter by timely pumping (for type VII boats approximately 1 ton per 100 meters). It is appropriate to pump out a greater amount, because the boat will be heavier by the accumulating leak water anyway.
Maciek has answered your questions excellent. I can only add, apart from the depth, the variation in salinity and temperature influence the buoyancy of the boat as well. This can be significant fi. when you are submerged in a fjord like the very deep Norwegian fjords particularly when the glaciers are melting and freshwater are in layers between the seawater can give you a bumpy ride. However you can compensate a lot by the hydroplanes, but in order to keep the margins you want to correct your buoyancy as much as possible.
81. If the flooding maneuver runs normally, the order follows:http://uboatarchive.net/DivingRegulations.htm
Commander: "Bring boat to x tons positive buoyancy and put in balance".
Engineering officer repeats the order.
The boat is brought to a positive buoyancy of approximately 2 tons by flooding the regulating tanks on the orders of the Engineering Officer initially without consideration of the trim. Now the boat becomes sensitive in longitudinal stability and is oscillated by means of small trim adjustments to purge the residual air from the ballast tanks.
The boat is brought to the ordered buoyancy by further flooding the regulating tanks. From 2 tons of positive buoyancy the Engineering Officer continually reports decreases in the remaining buoyancy.
The starting procedure after surfacing was a bit cumbersome, you wanted to get the engine ready as soon as possible in order to exhaustblow the ballasttanks as you was semisurfaced and the boat was in an unstable position. However you had always some seawater leakages in the exhaust system and some time these leakages could even fill the cylinders. In order to prevent waterstroke, you opened up all the indicator cocks and blow air through the cylinders to get all the water out. Then came the normal starting after shutting the indicatorcocks ,run the engine to some 100 rpm. by air before admitting fuel to the cylinders and ignition. It could take at least 3 minutes.
You question on maneuvering.
After 1942 I guess the GW VII Cs diesels were not direct reversible, the reversing mechanism was removed and the VII Cs were maneuvered by the E-motors only. Direct reversing of a diesel is slow, complicated (expensive), consumes air and is not necessary on a submarine. Most WW2 submarines were maneuvered by E motors. If this is not clear just put forward you questions.
Tore
I guess you could engaged the clutch at 350 revs, but the wear and tear increases with the speed and inertia forces so we usually started with the clutch engaged.
full load, 1400 HP, 470 RPM, 190 g/bhp
Mark.
Reverting to my notes on waterleakages in the exhaust system I would emphasize filling the cylinders was really exceptional and has happen to me once, nevertheless the blow thru with open indicators was a routine after being submerged.
Tore
full load, 1400 HP, 470 RPM, 190 g/bhp
hehe, my confusion rises…
The 1400 HP at full load should be shaft horsepower (manual says 1400 SHP, 470 RPM at full load) but the fuel consumption is gramm per brake horsepower.
The manual says fuel consumption of the G.W. is 254 kg/h at full load (470 RPM, 1400 SHP) which is 0.181 gramm per SHP
I think consumption per bhp should be lower than per shp which makes the difference even worse. But actually I have no idea. :D
There are different battery chargingloads, starting by not cruising, only charging at very high loads when your batteries were low and very light, just topping up the batteries. As far as I remember the rpm varied with the load I can`t remember the revs. When cruising you put the chargingload according to the requirement of the speed and the timeneed for getting batteries fully charged ,up to the decision of the CO.
The starting procedure after surfacing was a bit cumbersome, you wanted to get the engine ready as soon as possible in order to exhaustblow the ballasttanks as you was semisurfaced and the boat was in an unstable position. However you had always some seawater leakages in the exhaust system and some time these leakages could even fill the cylinders. In order to prevent waterstroke, you opened up all the indicator cocks and blow air through the cylinders to get all the water out. Then came the normal starting after shutting the indicatorcocks ,run the engine to some 100 rpm. by air before admitting fuel to the cylinders and ignition. It could take at least 3 minutes.
After surfacing in a dangerous war situation would they have taken the risk to start the engines without blowing possible water out of the engines first?
(OK, I just have to think what kind of situation this could be… possibly makes no sense at all, the only reason to surface while being in range of enemy vessels would be to show the white flag)
I guess the U-Boat can run on E-Machines during this procedure? (or isn't that a good idea without blowing ballast tanks first?)
Then I'll will allow usage of reversed diesel in the game only if the E-Machines are damaged.QuoteI guess you could engaged the clutch at 350 revs, but the wear and tear increases with the speed and inertia forces so we usually started with the clutch engaged.
This makes sense with the information of the seawater leakage in the exhaust system after surfacing. And I think that also means usually E-Machines were shut off until the ballast tanks were blown? Otherwise the shaft would still run at something close to 290 RPM when the diesel is clutched in which is basically the same stress on the clutch just flipped.
So you switched from diesel to electric but usually avoided to switch from electric to diesel while running?
Mark.
Deviation on the engine telegraphs rpm.
We never used the engine telegraph designation and corresponding rpm which are put up in the lists you are referring to. I believe it is strange to have stages as 396 and 471 rpm. It looks to me as composed by somebody behind a writingdesk. Whatever order was given, you adjusted the engines to an approximate rpm level and the governor kept the engine at that level plus minus 3-5 rpm. We did not use these accurate figures as this was not a science issue. The CO passed on messages verbally if some unusual outputs would be necessary.
Tore
I have one note - in the original German documents, the power is nominated in the PSe units, that is equivalent of bhp. I was mistaken, translating it to the SHP as on the uboatarchive.net.
In hurry, I have given fuel consumption in the g/bhp, while in the original documents is given as g/PSe/h. I have attached the scan of the data table.
As a bonus - chart of the power and fuel consumption in the relation with the RPM.
So if you want to compare apples don't`introduce pears.
Yes early VIIC but some things aren't like early VIIC, Simon showed me some things that won't belong there for early boats when I already had finished them. So actually I gave up on trying to make a command room for an early boat and will start the game with some generic interior. I have no idea what most of the things are anyway, I guess the radar mast is this one? If so then it does not belong to the boat the player will be able to use :o …but well if someone asks then I can call this an early experimental totally secret upgrade for the boat which is currently not working :D
Radar FuMO 30 entered the service in 1943. More informations you will find here:
http://www.ubootwaffe.pl/en/u-boats/equipment/radar-of-german-u-boats
Besides the mast, you will have to remove the electronic equipment box located between the navigator table and forward bulkhead of control room.
Radar FuMO 30 entered the service in 1943. More informations you will find here:
http://www.ubootwaffe.pl/en/u-boats/equipment/radar-of-german-u-boats (http://www.ubootwaffe.pl/en/u-boats/equipment/radar-of-german-u-boats)
Besides the mast, you will have to remove the electronic equipment box located between the navigator table and forward bulkhead of control room.
It just takes way to much time to create the whole boat interior (for my first version), so I will go with the incorrect upgraded command room and with command room only in this version. I just had no good reference pictures of what was installed at the place of the FuMO30 before. It's hard to find pictures of the older interiors.
And I guess the FuMO30 requires a newer conning tower… First version will be a reduced sim anyway - the later full version will support different U-Boat upgrades.
I'm already working on the game since 5 years and need to release or the people who are already waiting to play it will kill me one day ;)
Have you created all compartments? Could you paste some screen-shots?
This web site seems to have a good deal of information on the different HP ratings for ships...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7174460/Basics-of-Ship-Resistance (http://www.scribd.com/doc/7174460/Basics-of-Ship-Resistance)
Your simulation of an engineacceleration 0-350 rpm on 7-8 seconds seems not to bad to me with all the components connected.
As the blowerclutch, the engineclutch was a double cone frictionclutch, the difference being the size and it was pneumatic/hydraulic operated. I guess you could engaged the clutch at 350 revs, but the wear and tear increases with the speed and inertia forces so we usually started with the clutch engaged. Engaging the clutch at relatively high speed created a lot of smoke allthough nobody knew about the asbestos danger, the smoke could be unpleasant in a confined space.
The torsional vibrations in the shafting were diffcult to discover as no torsional meter was installed, however the engines were equipped with torsional vibrationdampers up front, but I doubt if that took care of all situations. I have seen a few photos of VIIC shafts breakages which clearly was due to torsional vibration stresses, but if these engines had been equipped with a torsional vibrationdamper I cannot tell.
A "plombiertes Ventil" should be a safety valve.
In Abhängigkeit von der Federauslegung kann der Ansprechdruck von Sicherheitsventilen in einem gewissen Bereich eingestellt werden. Der vorgegebene Ansprechdruck wird erreicht, indem über einen Gewindeeinsatz die Federvorspannung beeinflusst wird. Die Stellung der Vorspannung wird z. B. über eine Kontermutter gegen Lockern gesichert. Die Einstellverschraubung wird mit einer Haube verschlossen. Als Maßnahme gegen unbefugte Änderung der Einstellung wird diese Haube mit einer Plombe gesichert.
Currently my calculation gives a thrust force of 20,001.42 lbs (88,970.75 N) for a single propeller of the Type VII at 470 RPM, 1400HP and 17.7kn - does that sound OK?
This part of text from Wikipedia describes (in my opinion) safety valve, whose overpressure setting is secured with the seal agaist accidental change.
Currently my calculation gives a thrust force of 20,001.42 lbs (88,970.75 N) for a single propeller of the Type VII at 470 RPM, 1400HP and 17.7kn - does that sound OK?
Each main thrust bearing can transfer up to 10,000 kg (22046 lbs) of thrust. So it looks ok.
--
Regards
Maciek
Currently my calculation gives a thrust force of 20,001.42 lbs (88,970.75 N) for a single propeller of the Type VII at 470 RPM, 1400HP and 17.7kn - does that sound OK?
Each main thrust bearing can transfer up to 10,000 kg (22046 lbs) of thrust. So it looks ok.
Thanks, this whole ship propulsion stuff is a lot like the thing with the chicken and the egg. Each time you find a way to calculate something you find out that you need another thing that might need the other etc. :o
Can you briefly describe, how you calculated thrust force?
Then I reviewed the symbol section of the Skizzenbuch and seen a little ball on the valve wheel handle??? Could the drawing simply be indicating when there is a line with a ball on the end of it that this is a HP hull valve. This is different form the valve handle on the Q Tanks...
Further identification is provided at handwheels on valves. Wheels for hull closures all have a large ball cast on the rim. Valves for seawater lines are balanced cranks with straight handles. For fuel oil, balanced cranks with tapered handles are provided. Lub oil handles are five-sided. Fresh water and hydraulic system valves are five-clover type. Compressed air system valves are circular, with the rim slightly raised above the hub, with three spokes, and with an oval rim section. The exhaust gas blow system valves also have three spokes, but the rim is greatly offset from the hub, and the rim is a flat oval. Emergency vent valves have three spokes, a U-section rim and a hand grip. Hand gear for vent valves has similar wheels with five spokes. The main H.P. blow valve handwheel is a large flat wheel with five spokes. The main H.P. blow valve handwheel is a large flat wheel with five spokes, and the main L.P. blow valve is similar, with three spokes. Positions of cocks are indicated by grooves on the end of the square stern head.http://uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXC.htm
In the Uboat information effective July 15, 1940, translated by Maciek there is a table put up at page P 14, Section I General. where outputs related to dieselengine / E-motor revs are put up under two conditions A and B; I cannot find the definition for these conditions, but if we assume A is the optimal and B is the a realistic unfavourable condition, you should have the same rule of the thumb input as the crew would have, may be that would be the easiest way, remembering that the revs is not necessarily identical to the output of the engines, which f.i. could be overloaded at the revs stated.
However the speed/ output relations have so many variables and would f.i. change according to the condition of the hull (fouling) often related to days at sea, weather and sea.
One would think that the boat would have no problem diving since it weigh was increased. However, since D2, D3, and D4 are filled with fuel oil which weighs 13 percent less than water. It looks almost impossible to get the boat to submerge.
Q2. How did the weight effect the draft, generally how much lower was the boat in the water?
28 August, 1942, 04.20:
"During the pursuit, at the suggestion of the Engineering Officer, converted
main ballast and reserve fuel oil tanks 2 and 4 for use as ballast tanks. The
remaining fuel oil, 1 ton, was transferred from the ballast tanks to the regulating
and reserve fuel oil tank. At the same time the negative buoyancy tanks were blown.
Thereby gaining about 1 knot. With the high enemy speed of 16 knots these
measures were decisive."
"All our blowers and compressors are screeching for all they're worth—we keep
on blowing our diving tanks every five minutes, for we have to keep as high
above the water-line as we can, since the higher we are the faster we go.
True, the increase in our speed's only fractional, but it is an increase."
Q3. With the fuel oil in the ballast tanks, did that change the handling characteristics when submerged?
Q4. A basic fuel oil question - as fuel oil is consumed by the diesel engines is the depleted tank area pumped with water at 87% to keep the boats weight in balance? Tanks with compressed air would affect the boats weight and neutral buoyancy?
Q5. Fuel oil floats on water; are the internal fuel oil storage tanks pumped with water as the oil is being taken from the tank?
I don't know why i have the
Q2. How did the weight effect the draft, generally how much lower was the boat in the water?
Q1. What is soundings? Do they take a stethoscope and listen for a tank to hisses or hear drips in the compartments?
Q2. Fuel oil tanks generally are full of fuel to start, then water gets pumped into the bottom which forces fuel oil out the top. On plate 8 and 8a, there are vent lines at the top of each tank that feeds into a measuring bucket. What are they measuring?
Q3. On Plate 8 and 8a, there are lines at the bottom of the tanks that feeds up to a collection funnel and it looks like it's dumped into the ocean. Why are they doing this?
Q4. I can't figure out how the 3 way flooding cock with lateral inlets works on Plate 8a. photo ttached...
The term "Sounding" is quite misleading in this context. The German, original term is "Peil-" - that means gauging, indicating, or probing.
Simply - Peilleitung - installation for measuring the amount of fuel in the fuel oil tanks (internal as well as external).
The term "Sounding" is quite misleading in this context. The German, original term is "Peil-" - that means gauging, indicating, or probing.
Simply - Peilleitung - installation for measuring the amount of fuel in the fuel oil tanks (internal as well as external).
Peilen is a pretty unusual word for that esp. "Peilleitung" which I've never heard before - but the german word for the oil-level dip stick is "Peilstab" or more common "Ölmeßstab" hence it makes sense that they might have used it during that time.
From the logic of the word it should be used like you said to read the amount of fuel from a nonlinear scale.
But the word Peilung and peilen is mostly used for bearing and targeting and for understanding something - "I don't peil it" means "I don't understand it" - "I have no Peilung" is "I have no idea"
Term "Peilen" is commonly used in the Tauchvorschrift.
Tore, I need a way to convert diesel fuel (in kg) to liters. But I have no idea about the diesel fuel used by the Type VII during war. Do you have a rough estimate?
Do you know if there were different types of compass repeaters on the bridge? One source says the destroyed one on the picture would be a pressure proof U-Boat compass, but I never saw one like this one on pictures.Check out this thread:
Mark.It is much better, however I cannot figure out the specific fuelconsumption. At these revs and the Roots blower disengaged, I should assume it would be more like max. 200 g/bhp hour rather than 415 g.
The acceleration time 0 to 6.8 knots in 9 minutes astonish me based on my feeling, but I guess it is probably OK. so I should n`t worry.
Tore
Q.5 I am not sure if I understand your question right. If you mean the HP fuelpumps on the engines, the engine had to stop and a spare pump fitted, routine.
Tore or Maciek do you have any data about knots at RPM when driving astern?
Maciek, I guess this was yours? http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/derleitendeing/wiki (http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/derleitendeing/wiki)
What have you tried to achieve?
Interesting stuff Maciek, details like this won't make it into the first version of my game but I will try to implement it into the later main version which should be much more complex.
We were more concerned about f.i. diving time rather than surfacing time. Crash diving required a very well trained crew. With normal preparation and a trained crew you could manage 30 seconds which is pretty fast compared to other similar submarines at that time.
Hello Mr. Tore,Don.
Since this was a manual job... Was there a crank or a hand-wheel put on the shaft to grind the inner housing flap valve seat?
In your response... What does "wc" stand for?
Regards,
Don_
Hello Mr. Tore,Don.
a second question... The photo from the Spanish site; can you identify items 6, 7, and 8. Unless my Spanish-English translation really failed me. I don't believe these items have anything to do with turbocharged gases or the control room. I believe these lines and valves are on Plate 13 in the engine room...
I posted a part of Plate 13 where these line and valves look to be...
Regards,
Don_
Interesting stuff Maciek, details like this won't make it into the first version of my game but I will try to implement it into the later main version which should be much more complex.
Nonsense ;D It's much easier to do a lot of this now, at least the basic stuff.
Where can I find info how quickly the different tanks can be filled and how quickly they can be blown?
We were more concerned about f.i. diving time rather than surfacing time. Crash diving required a very well trained crew. With normal preparation and a trained crew you could manage 30 seconds which is pretty fast compared to other similar submarines at that time.
My (hopefully not totally idiotic) calculation for the required time to flood the MBT below the command room (when no other tanks are flooded and the boat can still float on the surface) is something like 11.64 seconds
Do you think that could be OK?
When I use the standard leak formula the result is that the 47 cubic metres of this tank could be theoretically flooded within 2.29 seconds (if the tank would be completely open on top instead of having 2 valves for the air to leave) when the "leak" of a comparable size is at a depth of 4 meters.
My calculation takes the leaving air through the 2 vents into account that's why it's much slower. But 10 seconds fits with some numbers I have read yesterday about flooding a MBT on a "Tauchboot" compared to real modern submarines which flood slightly slower.
Shouldn't the MBTs already have completely filled when you've reached pericope depth? I think the positive buoyancy would be too strong to go that deep that fast otherwise. But that's just my guess… :)
In the german original version of the manual I've found the sentence:
"Die Regelzellen sind angeschlossen an die Fluteinrichtung in der Zentrale…"
which means:
"The regulating tanks are connected to the flood installation in the command room"
But the english translation says:
"The regulating tanks are connected to the drainage installation in control room"
…in the description of the Torpedo compensating tanks Maciek used "drainage installation" for the word "Lenzleitung" which is correct (and the opposite of a "Fluteinrichtung")
The torpedo compensating tanks… in the german version of the manual they write "Die Torpedozellen nehmen das Wasser für den Gewichtsausgleich der Torpedos und Minen sowie das Umhüllungswasser auf" - Maciek forgot to translate the word "Umhüllungswasser" in the english version: "The torpedo compensating tanks are flooded to compensate for the weight of a launched torpedo or mine." - this word is pretty tricky to translate it's like "surrounding water", I guess they mean the water used when flooding the torpedo tubes?
Tore, do you know what diameter the lines of the compressed air blowing installation to the tanks had (or the inlet openings for that in the tanks itself? Or was that somehow connected to the air vents of the tank?)… I need that information to calculate the time necessary for blowing tanks at a given depth
Have you seen my document on torpedo tubes?
http://www.ubootwaffe.pl/en/u-boats/equipment/torpedo-tubes-of-german-u-boats (http://www.ubootwaffe.pl/en/u-boats/equipment/torpedo-tubes-of-german-u-boats)
…
The inner and outer diameter of blowing lines are 17 and 20 mm respectively.
I have a book "Type VII U-Boat" and it stated the electric air compressor was primarily used while submerged. That statement looks to be uninformed to me! First it is noisy and would help the enemy to locate the U-Boat, and would drain the battery. Just where is the electric air compressor going to get its air supply to compress - from the pressure hull? And who lives in the pressure hull - People who can be affected by no air and high negative pressure.
Excess pressure of more than 40 mb is to be pumped off with the electric
compressor, if possible, to prevent carrying away acid when opening the
conning tower hatch.
Hello Mr. Tore,
I have a book "Type VII U-Boat" and it stated the electric air compressor was primarily used while submerged. That statement looks to be uninformed to me! First it is noisy and would help the enemy to locate the U-Boat, and would drain the battery. Just where is the electric air compressor going to get its air supply to compress - from the pressure hull? And who lives in the pressure hull - People who can be affected by no air and high negative pressure.
What do you think?
Regards,
Don_
But I would not think this was the primary electric air compressor mode for operation; submerged? This mode of operation would never replenish the air in all those tanks. This had to be done while surfaced (I think)!!!
But I would not think this was the primary electric air compressor mode for operation; submerged? This mode of operation would never replenish the air in all those tanks. This had to be done while surfaced (I think)!!!
Maciek there is another mistake in the manual (possibly at a lot of places):
On page 40 you've translated it to "The highest pressure in the installation is 25 atm"
Correct would be "The highest pressure in the installation is 26 atm" (and for the diesel 1.5 atm)
They've wrote 25 atü - atü is "Atmosphere Überdruck" which means "atmosphere overpressure" and is:
I've read in "the death of the uboats" that at least one commander died when opening the hatch after (I think emergency) surfacing, he was blown out of the boat like a rocket.
The E-compressor was depending upon a seacooling system consisting of inter stagecoolers, water jackets, pumps and valves. we never operated or opened the seavalves at great depths as blowing a gasket or getting a crack at depths like 100 m would be troublesome.
"The drain performance by // and -- mode are similar up to depth of 57 meters. At greater depth the performance by // mode decreases strongly. It is practical to switch to the - - mode at a depth of 50 meters. During trials, by connecting the auxiliary trim and drain pump (358 liters/minute) in parallel, drain performance at depths greater than 50 meters is increased by 40%."
Correct would be something like this:
"The performance of // and -- mode will cross on the graph at a depth of 57 meters. At greater depth the performance decreases strongly when operating in // mode. In practice you should switch to the -- mode at a depth of 50 meters. By the hook-up of the auxiliary trim and drain pump (358 liters/minute) in serial to the suction and pressure lines of the main drain pump, the drain performance at depths greater than 50 meters was increased during trials by 40%"
But it's possible that I just don't understand it all all :)
Anyway "Praktisch ist ab … überzugehen" is clearly a directive.
Tore, this simple formula is from scientific paper about submarines - you can estimate the reduction of buoyancy caused by the outside pressure compressing the hull:
B0 = buoyancy due to vehicle displacement at zero depth
B = current buoyancy due to vehicle displacement at a given depth
Z = depth
B = B0*(1 - ((0.015 / 300) * Z)) (I always use more brackets than necessary ;) )
So at a depth of 200 meters the buoyancy is reduced by approximately 1% (8.65 tons)
What have you done to compensate that? That's almost 18.5% of the volume of MBT3. Was the lift force of dynamic diving still enough? (I haven't calculated the dynamic forces yet)
Because the boat loses volume at greater depth, it must be made lighter by timely pumping (for type VII boats approximately 1 ton per 100 meters). It is appropriate to pump out a greater amount, because the boat will be heavier by the accumulating leak water anyway.
Tore and Maciek, I'm still not certain how large (effective) the air & water openings really where - I wonder if the numbers on uboatarchive take grille into account.
Could you open the kingstons or the air outlet venting valves partially? Or were they all like flaps only?
The Type VII manual shows the distance to the center of mass for all of the tanks. But the center of mass is not static, it can move - what position (horizontally) should I use for placing the tanks based on the information of the manual? (I've tried to estimate geometrical position of the center of mass (of the tanks itself) for each tank before, but this is extremely intuitive and just a rough guess)
Do you have a detailed picture of a kingston? Or of the venting valves? I want to know how open these things really are when opened. (if I can use the whole area in the calculation).
Also the "diving procedure" does not mention MBT1 at all, what about MBT1 when was it flooded?
As soon as it is possible, [i.e. when the regulating and reserve fuel oil tanks have been converted for use as regulating tanks] two regulating tanks are to be cross connected ready to flood and two regulating tanks ready to pump, namely one about half-full under 3 to 4 at as a shallow pumping regulating tank, the other approximately 2/3 full under 10 to 12 at as a deep pumping regulating tank. Boats with only two regulating tanks operate one as a flooding regulating tank, the other as a deep pumping regulating tank.
Simulating the real shape of the tanks would require too much calculations per second which is bad for the overall performance and will heat up the devices and drain the battery. I could add this to the later desktop versions. But I think it might be pretty hard to find the correct shape from the available drawings.
I don't understood how the regulating tanks and cells are operated since I've read that:QuoteAs soon as it is possible, [i.e. when the regulating and reserve fuel oil tanks have been converted for use as regulating tanks] two regulating tanks are to be cross connected ready to flood and two regulating tanks ready to pump, namely one about half-full under 3 to 4 at as a shallow pumping regulating tank, the other approximately 2/3 full under 10 to 12 at as a deep pumping regulating tank. Boats with only two regulating tanks operate one as a flooding regulating tank, the other as a deep pumping regulating tank.
When they are filled differently (only 2 in use) they would create a torque. This makes no sense for me.
Do you have any idea as to the cost to copy your schematic? If it were not overly expensive, then I would be willing to reimburse you for your cost, time, and mailing expenses for a copy. They usually put blue prints in a mailing tube for shipment...
For blowing regulating tanks, regulating and reserve fuel oil tanks, and negative buoyancy tanks a blowing manifold is provided in the control room. The safety valves for regulating tanks and regulating and reserve fuel oil tanks are set at 13 at and for negative buoyancy tanks at 10 at. Each regulating tank has a pressure differential gauge installed.
Ah… nice! You assist the pump with pressure from the tank. Where exactly is the exit to outboard for the pump located?I have attached two photos of the port and starboard side of the boat.
…and how much water was in the regulating cells for the torpedoes at the beginning? (if no torpedo was used) does it carry water for the flooding of the tubes? or where the tubes already flooded?
On Plate 18 - There are 3 Air Conditioning Units on the intake / suction lines... Were those just evaporation units? They simply ran water across a filter and interior air was then drawn through the filter. The water evaporation and chilled the air and it was then distributed throughout the U-Boat.... Although, that would increase the humidity, so I'm not sure about the evap unit???
Thanks Tore, I still have some question about the flooding & drainage installation:Mark.
- The water inlet, I guess it worked with the natural water pressure and you don't need the pump at all to flood the regulating tanks right?
- Is the diameter of the (water) pipes of the flooding & drainage installation identical to the ones used to blow out the tanks with compressed air?
Thanks Maciek,Don.
A/C didn't sound right, but it was spelled out on Plate 18: Air Conditioning Unit... So, these would come into use when the U-Boat is submerged and they are recirculating the air inside the pressure hull???
Regards,
Don_
We did not use any sophisticated systems for monitoring the air quality, only experience.
Hello All,
It was stated that D2, D3, and D4 was the ballast system... Could we include the Negative Buoyancy tanks in that category as well?
Regards,
Don_
Hello Mr. Tore,Don.
Did you ever have to use the port e-motor I as a welding convector? Did you see the e-machinist set things up on the Rotary Switchboard on Kaura (U-995)?
Regards,
Don_
Hello Mr. Tore,
The Lime Water Plate: 26 indicate valve (a), I assume 4 different valves are used to spray lime water on the batteries. Is the spray above, below, or where? Where does the Lime water come from? Is it a pre-mixes solution that's taken onboard when taking on supplies at port, or is this something that was mixed as needed?
Regards,
Don_
I believe the limespray system is very much similar to the corrosionoil system, very seldom used and as such based on a hose connection system which could be hooked up to f.i. the hand coolingwaterpump in the engineroom. I don`t believe the lime was stored in liquid state on board, rather as a powder in canisters, which could be mixed with water. I cannot remember we carried any lime on board neither ever used the limespray. However once it was a narrow escape though.
Corrosion protection for battery wells from spilled electrolyte is provided by means of the so-called lime-milk system (Kalkmilchanlage). This is merely a pipe fitted with a funnel or hose connection at the upper end, and with a perforated section or a bilge strainer at the lower end in each battery well. By pouring milk of lime (slaked lime in water solution) into the upper end, an alkali to neutralize the battery acid is, in older vessels, sprayed onto the wing bulkheads of the battery wells from whence it finds its way to the bottom of the battery well. On newer vessels the solution is delivered directly to the bottom of the battery wells.
The solution is normally evacuated by way of the drain system.
When surfacing in a bad weather a huge wave hit us at-wartship just when our stability was at it`s worst,( metacentric hight almost 0) and we got a list, I remember looking at the inclinometer, between 35 and 40 degrees and that is a lot. Of course we checked the battery compartments but didn`t find any acidspill.
They mix a solution of Lime and water... Where is the solution held, and how does it get introduced into a water system that sprays the walls of the battery room with the diluted lime water?I don't know nothing more than quoted above. I suppose (as Tore said), that they held kali powder in canisters or cans, and mixed with water in buckets when needed. Then, the solution was poured into the funnel in the upper part of the piping. Solution flowing through the piping, was distributed over the battery compartment through the holes in the pipe (maybe the spray is too strong word). I suppose, that the piping was led around the compartment along the walls, and the solution "sprayed" the walls.
Q1. On the Skizzenbuch they list Hot Sea water --- I don't see a heating element to heat the water?
Sea water installation. To provide sea water collection in the galley, there is a branch off the cooling water manifold in the diesel engine room, which leads to the valve and a tap in the wash sink. The warm sea water installation branches off from cooling water head tank in the conning tower casing and leads to the washbasins in both W.C.s and to the wash sink in the galley. The discharge line of the auxiliary drain and trim pump branches off to the deck wash line. A shower head can be connected to this line, attached to the net protector, and stowed again after usage.
The dieselengine acts like a piston pump having a piston displacement of 0,057 m3 for every 2.nd revs ( 4 stroke). With 6 pistons and say 300 revs/min this would be about 50 m3/min exhaust. Compressing this to 1,5 ata (max allowable blowingpressure) would give appr. 34 m3/min exhaustgas at 1,5 ata, which is far to much for blowing the MBTs.
However the behaviour of the U boat in heavy sea seems a bit smooth and fast, like a hot knife through butter.
…
I see you have introduced a RN flowerclass corvette and an US Fletcherclass destroyer as escort for the convoy, I am not sure if these two vessels operated in a joint escort on the North Atlantic convoys, definitely the flowerclass corvette was in the escort.
But anyhow I am impressed what you are able to make. ;D
Tore
The one strip beside the lever reads Anlassen (Start) and at the top Detrieb (Uninstall drive or Dis-engage)?
…On Plate 29, what does the shaft Lenkerwelle do? …
OldNoob.Indeed. Senility on my part. Thank you for getting me straight.
Teak during WW2 in Germany?
Tore
Mark, manual says about red marks.
Tore, do you remember if this symbol thing had a color? I think I've read something somewhere in the manual once about colors of these symbols.
I built a 1/32 model of U-96 and decided the Laughing Sawfish was a green color based on the following article by Dougie Martindale...
http://amp.rokket.biz/docs/laughing_sawfish.pdf (http://amp.rokket.biz/docs/laughing_sawfish.pdf)
Hello Mr. Tore and Jon,Don.
I had that photo of the MAN Diesel, but I didn't notice the model U-Boat setting on the step... Apparently Mr. Tore's eyesight is much better than mine...
Regards,
Don_
Hello Mr. Tore,
Excellent... I will add this to my Skizzenbuch and I believe it's about finished. I can't thank you enough for the information and the education...
Kind regards,
Don_
PS
Credits for my book...
I know Mr. Tore's full name, City?, Norway, Rank and dates from & to served on Haura (ex U-995)
I know Maciek's full name, Warsaw,Poland, I called him the Professor because he really knows the German documentation and he translated most that's available.
I know Simon's first name only. City?, New Zealand, I used a few of his excellent drawings. He is quite talented and has an eye for details.
May be we get a bit serious in the play of VIIC details. The other day I was looking into a cross section of MBT 3, suddenly this picture turn up in my head. Might be a new avatar? ;D
The type VIIB and early VIIC had the standard bow. Then the Atlantic bow was introduced and that widened and raised the bow. I have the German edition or Rossler's book Geschichte des deutschen U-Bootbaus and the included fold out schematics show the obvious difference.
There was no XVII??
So, just a tiny bit lower - thanks. BTW is the anchor bay really that large?Mark, I did not checked the anchor bay size. However the lower corner aft and fwd corner high is between frame 103 to106.
Hello Mr. Tore,
Thank you for the information about the Schnorchel locking mechanism. I updated Skizzenbuch with that and the info about the location of the exhaust line and shutoff valve above the deck casing. The latest Skizzenbuch was uploaded to dropbox...
Don.
I checked your to days Skizzenbuch update and it looks OK. One small item. The U 996 did not have a schnorchel during WW2. She came back from her last patrol in March 1945 to have a schnorchel installed and was almost ready end April. Thus she has never been operated as Schnorchel boat by the Germans.
Tore
Regards,
Don_
The air operated clutches for the hydroplanes are situated locally at the hydroplane gear disengaging the electric drive and engaging the mechanical drive. The operation is controlled from the controlroom, I assume the clutching valves are situated as marked on my image below close to the hydroplaneoperators. As far as I remember the electric and the mechanical hydroplane indicators are operating in both configurations.
I was thinking (very dangerous sometime), but I never seen any indication as to the location of the hydraulic oil supply tank (over 350 Gallons). It looks like a suitable space for that large tank would be under the helmsman and plainsmen seat??? am I close?
One other question... the "Fahrtmeßanlage" speed measuring system has a dial that indicates 0 - 20 Knots. Was it sophisticated enough to take into account for the influence of the ocean current (+ or - knots)?
When you operated a British submarine you got the impression of a very modern vessel whereas the VIIC was a sturdy oldfashioned full of mechanical rods and gear vessel. Yet the VIIC gave a good feeling as you had direct mechanical contact with the elements you operated.
The log system is explained very good by Maciek, I can only add the Pitot system is based on a static and dynamic pressure, the dynamic nozzles (two) are place on port and stb bow and the static nozzles are I believe at the forward end of MBT 3.
Note the hydraulic tank capacity is 345 liters not gallons.
I believe the mechanical emergency operation of the hydroplanes was very sturdy and placed inside the pressurehull could take a lot of beating from depthcharging. However the system required a lot of maintenance (greasing) to stay relyable. A local 3 positions for operations of rudder and hydroplanes would be a challenge for the immediate communication and would require further instruments for immediate response to keep the vessels positions (angle) which is a combination of operation of fwd. and aft hydroplanes. I guess I would have preferred to maintain the system of a VIIC above three local emergency operations.
May be you remember the residue venting of aft MBT 2 being the other ventwheel. So where is the venting wheel of stern buoyancytank? Both version of the VII Cs have local venting of the stern buoyancy tank being a barhandle up front of the steeringgear. See the photo. Otherwise I agree with Maciek the other two wheels are for the ventilation ducts.
I remember we came to a conclusion that this handle would be the grinding (ratchet) for the Junker. When I was looking for the venting of the stern buoyancy tank I realised it was not operated from the control room and that the local rod for the pressurehull entrance was exactly where the we assumed the Junker grinding shaft was. I forgot about the interlock confusion. I still think it has to be the sternbuoyancy tankventing as there are no other indication for this venting. The confusing element is the interlock, it could be to prevent opening the stern tankventing while the Junker was running. The two stroke opposed freepiston balancing was very susceptible to exhaust backpressure. I`ll ponder a bit and revert.
5. In the case of the Junker's air compressor exhaust valve, the valve floats on the end of the main spindle. It is rotated by an extension from the valve passing down the centre of the main spindle and is turned by hand.
Die Störungen haben zumeist ihre Ursache darin, daß zu viel Schwallwasser in die Abgasleitung des Verdichters eintritt. Um die besonders bei Seegang auftretenden Anlaßschwierigkeiten zu beheben, ist z. Zt. (April 1941) eine Hilfsauspuffleitungen den Raum und auch eine Verbindungsleitung Stufe I Spülluft bei Alle Booten in Aussicht genommen. Bei einem Boot versuchsweise zwischen Abgasein- und austritt ein Wasserfänger eingebaut. Der Verdichter koonte bei geschickter Handhabung bis Seegang 5 angestellt und in Betrieb gehalten werden.
The damages are mostly caused by the fact that too much water enters the exhaust pipe of the compressor. To remove these difficulties encountered especially in rough seas, an auxiliary spaces in the exhaust line were introduced and also introduced the scavenging air line to stage I at all boats. One boat was experimentally fitted with the water-trap between beginning and ending of exhaust piping.The compressor can be skilfully operated up to the sea state 5.
LP blowing blowing of buoyancy tanks. I don`t believe this blowing was very much used, in fact I can`t even remember them. Normally during surfacing you left the vents open and the tanks drained nicely,I should guess in bad weather some COs would like to break the surface with ventvalves shut and then blow the tanks to to speed up the buoyancy effect. Unfortunately I cannot find any photos of the blowing valves.
1. The photo with all the red arrows pointing to LP valves that lead to blowing the bow buoyancy tank. Which valve would they use to blow the bow buoyancy tank, the hull valve, or the one down stream? Where are these valves in relation to the forward torpedo tubes?
2. The green hand-wheel is HP air and what is its purpose?
3. The photo is of the aft torpedo tube with the hull valve for MBT1 buried so deeply; am I correct?
I would imagine the hull valve for MBT5 is similarly buried in the forward torpedo room section as well.
1 - MBT1 and MBT5 venting valve hand-wheels in the control room
2 - The hand lever for venting the stern buoyancy tank in the aft torpedo room (VIIC/41)
3 - The hand-wheel for venting the bow buoyancy tank in the control room (VIIC/41)
4 - The info just provided about blowing the bow buoyancy tank in the forward torpedo room
Hello Mr. Tore,Don.
As I learn more about these valves, I believe I have to go back and revisit the Negative Buoyancy tank blowing valve. I have labeled 3 valves related to the air pressure to blow the tanks.
A. This valve is a manually controlled pressure valve that sets the blowing pressure to 25 Bar from HP
B. This is the red hand-wheel valve that is used to provide blowing air to the Negative Buoyancy tanks
C. This is a pressure relief valve to limit the air pressure
See the attached drawing... Comments?
Regards,
Don_
Originally, I had an item No 11 for the blowing manifold... I thought it was strange; the U-Boat Manual had an item 11, but only 10 in the drawing.... So, I deleted the 11th entry. Now, I put it back...
Listening to Rap Music for 28 days would have been maddening!
Page 136 Aux. luboilpump. The pump you describe is the fueloil transferpump which can be connected to the luboilsystem and thus used as an auxiliary luboil pump.
Auxiliary lubricating oil pump.
The auxiliary lubricating oil pump serves for the lubricating of the engines before start-up, and backs-up the attached engine oil pumps in case of failure. The pump is an electrically driven vertically arranged screw pump and supplies 38 m³/hour of oil at a discharge head 50 of meters H2O with at least 5 meters suction inlet head. The auxiliary lubricating oil pump can be used by change-over for the distribution of fuel oil.
BORDVENTIL ABGASANSCHLUSZ LUFTVERDICHTER |
Hull exhaust valve, Diesel air compressor |
On museum U 995 the helmsmans gyrorepeater in the control room which can be moved the to emergecy steering in th E-room is missing but I cannot locate the bulkheadrepeater next to the active sonarequipment. Do you happen to have any photos showing the repeaters near the active sonar equipment, radioroom or hydrophoneroom?
My write-up on the torpedo section states the torpedo tubes were vented into the pressure hull when the torpedo launch piston was pushed back by the sea water during a submerged launch. However, a colleague of mine indicates the blisters on the front side of the hull were vents for the torpedo tubes.
My question: Did the early type VII U-Boats vent the torpedo tubes externally? If so, did this not defeat the purpose of the piston to eliminate air from escaping and expose the U-Boat's location after a torpedo launch?
These "bumps" have a very simple work to do: They helps to get out the huge amount of water inside the free flooded structure.
This water at this position was a big problem out at sea. Water at this position results to a hard working boat.
This problem occurs first at Type I. Later also on Type VII A. They try to fix it by many different changes of the first flooding holes. At some pictures of U35 you can see that they have also opend additional flood holes just at the position of the "bums" of later Types. This helps to get out the water. But also the water could fast get in.
At development of type VII B they ad these "bumps". This are just open flood holes. But at speed foreward the water could easy get out but nothing or only slow get in.
If someone owns a smal boat he maybe used a very similar thing to get out the water. In german it calls "Selbstlenzer".
On the u-historia.com site (unfortunately it is not working now) some time ago they published description, that this blisters were responsible for releasing the pressure inside the tube (caused by forward movement of the boat), when the muzzle doors were opened. This higher pressure had to influence for the depth-keeping apparatus of the torpedoes.
At development of type VII B they ad these "bumps". This are just open flood holes. But at speed foreward the water could easy get out but nothing or only slow get in.
If someone owns a smal boat he maybe used a very similar thing to get out the water. In german it calls "Selbstlenzer".
Hi Tore
Here something I am sure you have see before ;D
http://www.ebay.de/itm/U-Boot-Steuerbord-Maschinentelegraf-aus-Typ-VII-U-Boot-Bj-1944-selten-/231487213511?pt=Militaria&hash=item35e5b68fc7 (http://www.ebay.de/itm/U-Boot-Steuerbord-Maschinentelegraf-aus-Typ-VII-U-Boot-Bj-1944-selten-/231487213511?pt=Militaria&hash=item35e5b68fc7)
Some great detail photo's
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/U-Boot-Steuerbord-Maschinentelegraf-aus-Typ-VII-U-Boot-Bj-1944-selten-/00/s/MTU5MVgxNDc0/z/VikAAOSwBahU4LC7/$_57.JPG)
Hi Tore
Here something I am sure you have see before ;D
http://www.ebay.de/itm/U-Boot-Steuerbord-Maschinentelegraf-aus-Typ-VII-U-Boot-Bj-1944-selten-/231487213511?pt=Militaria&hash=item35e5b68fc7 (http://www.ebay.de/itm/U-Boot-Steuerbord-Maschinentelegraf-aus-Typ-VII-U-Boot-Bj-1944-selten-/231487213511?pt=Militaria&hash=item35e5b68fc7)
Some great detail photo's
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/U-Boot-Steuerbord-Maschinentelegraf-aus-Typ-VII-U-Boot-Bj-1944-selten-/00/s/MTU5MVgxNDc0/z/VikAAOSwBahU4LC7/$_57.JPG)
Just 2999,-? A steal ;-)
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8663/16487628460_6d69f685f4_o.jpg)
OK, it look to me if we all put in $5 for the next 20 years, we should be able to build our own Type VII.
All we need to know who has the biggest backyard and how near is it to the sea ;D
on Q1 - I was thinking about a night surface attack where the helmsman was on the bridge controlling the rudder. I guess they would use the voice tube to change speed. However, the diesel engine room is noisy and in order to listen for the commands, I believe there had to be a signaling device; like a switch on the bridge to cause the lights in the engine room to flash to signal the diesel operator to check the voice tube for speed commands...
From the start of World War II, the Germans were fully aware of the possibilities of meter ASV radar and had developed their own airborne search equipment, but it was not until the summer of 1942 that they concluded that the Allies were using radar for U-boat search and initiated a hurried program for the development of search receivers to detect the radiations. The first equipment to be installed on U-boats was the R-600 or Metox with a low wavelength limit of 130 cm. It was of the heterodyne type, thought to be the only type capable of sufficient sensitivity, and so it radiated energy, a property which eventually caused its abandonment. Nevertheless, it was used with apparent success, and the conditions of its introduction and use are of considerable interest.
The rudder order telegraph system seems to only indicate the angle setting for the rudders and not the desired course. For instance - submerged and a rudder electrical failure due to a depth charge attack. If the command is 90 degrees to port, the rudder order telegraph only goes to 40 degrees (port or stb) and the manual states that maximum deflection is 35 degrees manually and 33 degrees under electrical power. The rudder angle will determine the turning circle at which the U-Boat turns to port. I believe the forward speed is a factor in this equation as well.
The rudder order telegraph system doesn't seem as useful as I initially thought it would be and I can see where the cost/benefit analysis scrapped the system. Besides, how often did the U-Boat loose electrical rudder control. I'm inclined to thing that if the U-Boat lost electrical rudder control, then the
phone to the helmsman in the Aft torpedo room would be the best line of communication.
Q1. Once they send a rudder order say 15 degrees to the helmsman in the aft torpedo room. Do they then sent a zero degree setting?
Q2. I was thinking about the control room sending a 2nd command for another 15 degree rudder change. How do they accomplish this change so the helmsman knows this is a 2nd command?
Q3. This system just provides the rudder angle... How does the helmsman get the actual course command from the commander? By voice tube, by phone, or by crewmen repeating the command?
Puzzled by the telegraph question and the rudder angle order system adviced by Maciek, I checked the excellent manual Uboatinformation for Type VIIC , year of construction 1939 effective July 15 1940 donated by Don translated by Maciek. In chapter V the various communications are described, both acoustic, electronic and visual. Internal communication by loadspeaker is mentioned, but as far as I can see not the telephone system. Further when looking at photos of older VIICs on the locations where you have the telephones on the later VIICs, you do not find the phones as on the image below where you see a photo of der Fuehrer on the place where you should expect to see a phone. As the phones were a very important communication link I believe they definitely should be mentioned under communication in the manual, I wonder if same was not installed on the early VIICs but introduced in the later execution and as a consequence the rudder angle order knob was removed on the late VIICs. As far as I could check U 570 ( commisioned May15.th 1941) had the voicepowered telephones installed allthough of a different design and placed partly on other places than on U 995.
Obviously the announcement system with speakers and head sets required an A/C motor generator, so this could not be used during silent running.
However the phone system looks to be DC powered and could be used during silent running. Am I correct about the differences?
The phone receivers had the small crank and was it to get the attention of the receiver calling location? I believe it was a buzzer OR a physical indicator (light or what)?
Hello Mr. Tore and Maciek,
The type VII U-Boats that had the modern bridge/sail in the 50's; did that make any improvement in the maximum submerged speed? I would think the modern sail would present less forward resistance?
Regards,
Don_
The big contrast from suddenly leaving the rough stormy surface and in a matter of seconds to be submerged in the calm quite sea was something you really had to experience to understand. This has inspired me to make paintings which I have put together in an image below, showing a 1953 fantasy situation of KNM Kaura crossing the normally rough Westfjord near Lofoten islands in Northern Norway meeting the old express steamer s/s Lofoten and underneath Kaura in a snorting mode in the same area, enclosed in the green Arctic sea. As the weather on the surface image was not suitable for snorting I "calmed" the lower image weather.
Tore
As you know I am not a navigator and my knowledge on the matter is limited, but I called my friend and No1 on Kaura during this schnorcheling and he told me the main tool for the navigation was the echosounder. We had very extensive charts showing fairly accurate depths in addition to detailed current data and occasional star observation. But the main navigation tool apart from the compass was the echosounder.
Very few starobservations through the navigation periscope, we never surfaced, that was a part of the test.
…how much damage would a neutral buoyancy submarine suffer from a collision with a rock?
I guess that most of the VIICs had a pneumatic motor situated below the deck between the torpedotubes having a mechanical rod drive up to the capstan gearbox. On some drawings this motor is described as an electric motor, I guess that could be a misunderstanding. Presumeably in the effort to reduce the increased weight of the VIICs/41 the rather heavy drive of this arrangement was substituted by the electric drive shown on U 995.
U-278 does not have a KDB showing either... And I checked some of my other U-Boat photos and some do show the KDB and others don't. Was it possible to lower it because it was exposed to depth charge damage...?
Page 425 - added some info on KDB.
Tore, that's a great clarification! I had always thought that there was a connection between the forward hydroplanes and their guards.SG
Outstanding, Tore, as usual!
PS. warm blankets and a hot cup of Joe for n.1 after his exploit in the freezing water?
The artificial use of "express" would be confusing as well, as in RN English we use blow Q and vent Q.
Schaden: 25 cm langer Riβ in TZ 3 durch Sull Mannloch, Riβstelle nach innen gedruckt. TB 1 und 2 innen ständig unter Druck. Wassereinbruch 8 t in 3 Std. im Dieselraum aus Entwässerungsschalter.
Damages: The coaming of the manhole of the main ballast tank 3 torn. The edges are bent inside. Internal fuel oil tanks 1 and 2 remain under (external?) pressure. Water intake 8 tons per 3 hours in diesel engine room through the bilge/drain system.
With regard to the manhole and damage on MBT 3 I wander what caused the damage, was it by blowing the tank? or was it depthcharging or deepdiving.
TB 1 und 2 staendig unter druck" does not give much meaning to me. The tanks have reliefvalves both for pressure and under pressure, moreover you could shut the hullvalve and relieve the pressure in to the wastetank or other inside tanks.
The report of U 663 says "Wassereinbruch 8 t in 3 Std im dieselraum aus entwaesserungs schalter." I guess in case of depthcharging, without shutting the board valve exposing the internal compensating system for excessive pressure fluctuation like a depthcharging, the two cocks marked on the drawing might burst and you get a substantial waterflow into the engine room via the broken entwaesserungs schalter. It t. However you could avoid exposing the internal fueltanks for same pressure fluctuations even with open hull valve by shutting the valves "c" to the tank 1 and 2. It looks indeed like they did not shut the hullvalve, neither did they shut the c valves when the increased internal pressure occurred which could be a fatal mistake.
The flood valved for the saddle tanks are normally open during a war patrol; is that not correct?
Tore,
I'm still here :)
There was a gap between the periscope tube and the opening hole/shaft (the open tub like thing on the bottom of the command room) when the periscope in the command room was retraced right?
Mark.
It is indeed an open space between the periscope well and the navigation periscope, however on the museum U 995 they put a cover on the well.
Tore
I guess it is hard to explain but could you describe the sound of both periscopes?
There was a gap between the periscope tube and the opening hole/shaft (the open tub like thing on the bottom of the command room) when the periscope in the command room was retraced right?
I guess it is hard to explain but could you describe the sound of both periscopes?
Hello Mr. Tore,
When the 1st stage piston moves backward it uncovers the housing for the 4th stage piston. Therefore the bouncing chamber is exposed to the compressor incoming air. and this air when compressed provides the bouncing effect. It this correct?
Don.
I don`t think so. Down below I have tried to make an image of the piston in the inward dead end, may be this gives you an idea how it works.
Tore
First of all, the ligths were not that bright as on to days museums U 995 …
The general lights throughout the boat did not vary during the various running condition.
The only thing that seems to be a mystery to me is what exactly is the function of the index pointer that slides up and down on the rod on the right side of the Papenberg meter scale?
On my image below I have indicated the mechanical pointer of the teleflex system frrom U-570.
I am not sure where you got the pressureproof figures for the periscopes.
However sometimes you let the boat hang on the periscopes when you need to go absolutely silent. You shut down the pumps and adjust the bouyancy by lowering and raising the scopes, ( changing displacement) using the stored energy in the hydraulic accumulators.
MBT 3 has 6 Kingston valves normally open so the U-Boat can dive... Right? Why on earth would they ever want to close them? If on a war patrol with closed Kingston's they can't dive, so they may as well run up a white flag because they can't out gun a destroyer and they would be ducks in a pond for aircraft?
How could they over stress MBT 3? Did they do a HP blow with the Kingston valves and the vent valves shut? The only place where the Kingston valves for MBT 3 are shut is in the harbor area.
WOW didn't realize the diving angle was that steep.This is a crash dive angle which normally is not common. It requires some skill as you have to watch, what in the Royal Navy submarineservice is called the Duchess Ass, which is the ultimate aft end. If this part is too high above the surface you have a problem with the thrust of the propellers. The ideal angle is when the wind deflector on the bridge and the Duchess Ass is descending the seasurface simultaneously.
I have attempted to improve my writing skills...
1. Could they only launch the stern torpedo while submerged and not while surfaced?
2. While submerged did they use the piston to launch the stern torpedo as to not create air bubbles to give up the U-Boat's location?
3. Was the gyro angle set in the stern torpedo, or was only a straight shot configuration available?
Due to the placement of the aft torpedo in the deck casing; I highly doubt the aft torpedo could be launched during a surface attack on the Type VII A.
Recess for schnorchel mast. I dont think you should make a box for the schnorchel recess. I have seen a couple in the IXC casing. just a box around the schnorchel head, made of plain thin steel plates having drilled holes, I can`t remember we had such a box. When the schnorchel mast was lowered, it rested on cradles fitted on the pressure hull, right above the COs cabin you had a lockingclamp entering an eye on the mast. The clamp had a spindle going into the top of COs cabin ending in a handle to lock the mast in resting position. Otherwise the space around the mast was pretty empty just surrounded by angled thin steel girders and steel supports for the casing and wooden deck.
Steve. All the valve were manually operated. Kingstons, vents, exhaustvalves etc. I guesstimate some 30- 40 vents/valves altogether including valves for HP blowing and exhaust blowing.
Diving would require some 7-10 people operating the vents manually, further 3-4 men in the engine room shutting the hull valves. Surfacing, one man, the control room engineer at the blowing panel as many of the HP air valves were adjusted on beforehand allowing only the main blowing valve to be operated. No men at the vents as the vents are shut when submerged, however in war time the vent operators would be stand by at diving stations. Each man knew exactly what he should do, the drill was done during the work up periode and you did not gave any other order than dive, dive, dive, the coordination was done on beforehand.
below is an image of the blowing pane
Karel.
I discovered you ask me a question in another thread on canning.
Tore, could you explain how the light panel works and how its appearance change when in use?The light panels serves two purposes the upper indicates by light and text if the most important hullvalves are open or shut. The lower panel is a report panel from the various compartments if they are ready for diving. I am not 100% sure which lamp refer to which compartment except engine room and conningtower.
Hi Tore,
I'm not seeing a picture for the oilcanning reply.
These responses are so awesome! Thank you for telling us all about these u-boats!
Steve.
The images you are showing are the kingstons on the saddle ballast tanks 2 and 4. The inlet with a grating is the kingston ( floodvalve ) for the Q tanks.
(untertriebzelle).See my image below and ask questions if any. For a model I believe it is probably correct to leave them open as can be seen on my model the should not have a grill.
Tore
I have another question:
On the Revell model, on the bottom of the saddle tanks there are two rows of 4 framed panels of some kind. I am guessing they are drains of some kind for the saddle tanks.
I don't know if you know what these look like since they were usually underwater. :)
Should they be grills or something? I've seen some modelers make them as grills and others just leave them filled in as they come on the kit.
Revell shows one grilled opening right next to them so if they were grilled I am surprised Revell did not mold in grill detail. Perhaps they are copying U-995 in its restored state and maybe at Laboe they just covered the grills over.
Steve
(http://i.imgur.com/dNjhHt5.png)
Hi Tore,
I'm not seeing a picture for the oilcanning reply.
These responses are so awesome! Thank you for telling us all about these u-boats!
I have another question:
On the Revell model, on the bottom of the saddle tanks there are two rows of 4 framed panels of some kind. I am guessing they are drains of some kind for the saddle tanks.
I don't know if you know what these look like since they were usually underwater. :)
Should they be grills or something? I've seen some modelers make them as grills and others just leave them filled in as they come on the kit.
Revell shows one grilled opening right next to them so if they were grilled I am surprised Revell did not mold in grill detail. Perhaps they are copying U-995 in its restored state and maybe at Laboe they just covered the grills over.
Steve
(http://i.imgur.com/dNjhHt5.png)
Steve.
I believe the lower part of Simons image shows the side view, including the exhaust blowing panel valvewheels and the schnorchel shut off valve wheel in the controlroom.
Tore
I see your point of view but you are nevertheless deviating from the box with regards to the schnorchel casing recess, in that case I would perhaps make the schnorchel lay- out correct as well, adding the missing deck exhaustbend and schnorchel shutoff valve both very visible on the stb front side of the tower casing, se my image below.
The other smaller black wheel next to the periscope is the locking pin wheel for the schnorchel mast homing on the tower casing.
In my humble opinion - I think the skeg keel has a heavy metal lower base where the metal vertical rudder protection structure is attached besides the hydroplane drive shaft and the dual prop support. The skeg keel only has internal vertical frames and flooding holes on each side. There are no stringers internal to the skeg keel... It looks to me that Stringer #1 is only internal to MBT 1 and attached to the aft pressure hull.
The 1st image Stringers 1 shows stringer #1 and it looks to be at an angle (possibly several stringer #1's). The 2nd image MBT 1 shows a vertical slice of the U-Boat at frame +2 and the stringers are all internal to MBT 1, and at frame -6 there are no stringers visible.
Hydroplanes.
The forward hydroplanes have no connection to the outer part of the hydroplaneguards. On many drawings it looks indeed as if there is a throughgoing shaft ending up in the hydroplane guard, however the hydroplane shaft end up in a fixing point about half way into the hydroplane, I guess you`ll find a bolted accesshatch at the fixingpoint.
The aft hydroplanes are slightly different although the shaft and fixingpoint are the same there is a small connection to the guard at the outerpoint. As far as I remember it is not a support shaft and bearing at the point rather a small bar shutting the gap to prevent ropes or other objects to enter the propellerarea.
The jumping wire on the fwd hydroplane guard was removed sometimes I guess at the time when the netcutters were removed. This reminds me of an event we had near Scapa Flow when we anchored waiting for orders over the night. In the morning raising the anchor we experienced the anchorcable was stuck between the forward hydroplaneguard and the hydroplane. We had to free dive in the cold November sea (wearing longjohns) to release the cable.
We did not use the radar very much as it wasn`t any good. To my knowledge nobody was hurt by radiation.
Battlestations or divingstations as we called it, would generally imply mostly people moving from forward compartment to aft.
Simon.
All the wooden hatches had hinges and were locked in place, a typical example is the hatch adjacent to the hydraulic cylinder of the schnorchelmast seen on the images below.( U 968). For the wooden deckhatches connected to the pressurehull hatches was a special arrangement whereby you opened the wooden deckhatch simultaneously with the pressurehull hatch by a system of hingerods as can be seen on the image. Note the wooden deckplanks were bolted to the steel supports shown on the image.
If it were a submerged torpedo attack and the CO was using the attach periscope in the tower, then there would be another person involved in the operation; a helmsman, the CO, and who would the person be handling the TDC? Who would normally input the info into the TDC on any type of torpedo attach scenario? I thought the No. 1 Officer handled a torpedo attach from the bridge using the UZO... Could they all fit into the cramped tower space, or would the helmsman need to take his station back in the control room?
Simon.
I can`t remember the exact details, but below is an image of KNM Kaura 1953 showing some details of the wooden casingdeck hatches may be i can be of some help.
Tore
Would this be accurate?
"The motor on the left is disabled mechanically by uncoupling the direction switch control with field switch I (off position). Two switch commons will be in an open position, while a resistor is used to discharge the shunt windings from MI by a third set of contacts (upper). With this failed condition, the motor on the right MII may only be run in the parallel configuration. However, the thing to remember is both e-motor armatures are housed in the one motor casing and pinned to the same armature drive shaft; one armature is powering the common drive shaft while the damaged armature is free spinning.
Do you know if the direction switch had to be in off position in order to uncouple MI or MII with field switch I or field switch II when an armature was damaged.
The older switchboard they could uncouple the switch blade actuators in any position. However, I'm not sure what they had to do to the wiring for the armature induced current in the shunt windings???
The older switchboard they could uncouple the switch blade actuators in any position. However, I'm not sure what they had to do to the wiring for the armature induced current in the shunt windings???
Page 380 - there looks to be a lock-slide between the Sw1 and Sw2 Direction Switch Assembly. Also, I have attached a photo of the Type IX switch panel where this is visiable
I have a question about the photo on page 396 - the items on top of the e-motors are described as converters. However, they do look different. Is the description accurate?
Hi Simon,
Here is what I have...
Regards,
Don_
Simon.
The drains m are situated in the ventingducts for the saddle ballasttanks under the casingdeck and has nothing to do with the RFO tk.1 or neg boyancy tanks.The drains are operated from outside the pressure hull to the sea.
Tore
Hello again Tore and all others,
what about the telegraphs and audioalarm when running silent on E-Machines?
Tore, we know that the Germans do not used Tab Washers on the internal pipe flanges bolts but used Tab Washers on all pipe flanges bolts that penetrated the pressure hull.Simon.
Do you think the Germans used Tab Washers on all the external pipe flanges outside the pressure hull or only on the pipe flanges that penetrated the pressure hull?
While surface running there is an air inlet ventilation stack and an air outlet ventilation stack... I guess the inlet stack is on the Starboard side in back of the tower under the bridge deck, is that correct?
Hi Simon,
I believe you should wait for a response from Mr. Tore or Maciek... I was just thinking of a drawing in Skizzenbuch where a valve for the header tank or sea water selection was located at the bottom of the saddle tanks. If they had to change the selection, then the valve stem would need to come through the pressure hull to change from the fuel oil mode to the ballast mode.
Regards,
Don_
The image attached seems to qualify for the "b" valve going to FBT 4 port side because it is far enough ahead of the Q Tank. It looks to be low enough to fit into the scheme of things, and it has a means to limit the valve movement. There is a red metal stake that extends into the valve hand wheel spokes which will limit the valve selection... Hopefully Mr. Tore or Maciek will have a definitive answer to your question instead of my 'SWAG"...
I believe you are not looking at the red metal stake that I was referring to...
Hi Maciek,
Your photo is much better than mine. However, I was thinking of something like this...
Regards,
Don_
Simon- Don.
Sorry being late in answering. We never or very seldom used the fuel mode of the saddle ballasttanks, as we operated the VIICs as Coastal submarines. Hence I have not a personal experience of operating same. Transfering a ballasttank into fuelconfigurating requires some preparation. Of course the ventducts have to be shut, the blowing pipe both HP air and exhaust has to be locked shut, but nevertheless the compensating water pipe is in place and in ballasttank configuration you have to take measures to prevent blowing air into the compensating system.
In the bottom of the external ballast/fuel tanks the compensating water is checked by a selectorvalve D on the plan 8 this valve has two positions either open directly to the bottom of the tank and shut to the sea (fuelmode) or (in ballast mode) via a recess in the tank ( to prevent possible oilspill) to the sea and shut to the tank. My rough sketch below might explain the idea.The selector valve sits on the top of the pipe in the tank like some of the fuel testingvalves but are operated from outside the pressurehull ( not in the controlroom). The system prevent, in ballast mode, that the compensating system don`t get higher pressures than the head of the compensating expansion tank in the towercasing regardless of the depth of the submarine and is not influenced by HP airblowing of the ballasttank. Tore
Your photo is much better than mine. However, I was thinking of something like this...
From this viewpoint, the line look like its working its way up pressure hull.
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/6/5595/31303520332_893ed3d819_o.jpg)
That all looks like a possibility... However, I am very concerned about conjecture at this point. I still can't understand the hand wheel gear driving a worm shaft that seems to go to a pipe. That makes no sense to me. To say the least, I'm very confused at this point about the selector valve for the saddle tanks...
It looks like you are right about the valve in question, and it's attached to the upper area of MBT 3; I'm not sure where it goes? Perhaps to an air pressure gauge? That would be one means to know the pressure inside MBT 3 when blowing the tank...
Great work... You convinced me that this line is for blowing MBT 3! It seems like such a small air line to blow such a huge ballast tank (MBT 3). Comparing the size of the blowing line to the size of the venting valves (2) for MBT 3 in the venting trunks...
Since the blowing line is such a small diameter have you ever read as to how long it took to blow MBT 3 (even partially blow)?
With the differential in vent and blowing diameters, then diving time would be faster, and surfacing time would be much slower...
I see there are two blowing valves for MBT 3 Port and Starboard...
Simon.
Compensating water selector valve saddle fuel/MBT 2&4. May be an execution as below and possibly a removable T bar extension?
Tore
Hi Simon,
Could you please email me that photo without the arrows if you have one? I need a larger size for resolution if possible...
I pulled Skizzenbuch from my dropbox so I could make changes on pages 81 - 83 (I don't want my managing editor getting it yet)...
Regards,
Don_
Simon.
It`s a delight to see you are back with you amazing drawings, as many times we have to improvise and assume as no reliable images exist. I am still in doubt of the selector valve, not the position outside the tank. The selectorvalve is a double seated valve and we have such a selector valve in the trimsystem placed in the controlroom. It might be this valve is closer to the prevously indicated.
Tore
Simon.
Your selector valve fig two is probably correct for an inboard fuelvalve but for an outboard valve your fig 1 would probably be better with a few modification. The stuffingbox should be a bit different. Below I have tried to indicate my idea. The threaded part of the valvespindle should be on the top of the spindle whereas the spindle should be without threads in the valvehousing where the packing materiel is located. I can not remember any brassplates for identification on the later VIICs, in the latter part of the war the Germans hardly used any brass.
Tore
Simon.
I Guess your figure 2 would be the appropriate, just remember not to have any threads on the valvespindle going through the stuffingbox.
Tore
Simon. Looks fine, but might be you shold make the flange bolts a bit shorter, the protruding threaded part outside the flange is of no use and make the dismantling more cumbersome than necessary.
Tore
we are not able to locate the expansion tank and the access to the sea...
Don.
From www. uboat archive.netU-570/British report.
Tore
Don.
From www. uboat archive.netU-570/British report.
Tore
Hi Don & Tore
I never thought about looking at this report for pipe dimensions. I have always estimated the pipe dimensions by plans and photographs. I was just flipping through the report and notice on page 40 "The diameter of the ventilation pipes leading into the ship from the conning tower fairwater is approximately 9 - 3/4"." which is 247 mm. I just checked my 3-D model and I had estimated this pipe dimensions as 246 mm :D Sorry about the inaccuracy of my model I will fixs this and will do better next time ;D ;D
This can give us confidence that we are heading in the right direction to workout how a U-boat works and is constructed!
Simon.
I guess the assumed image of the expansion tank of the IXC cutaway is probably the echosounder, I have previously been fooled by this image.
Tore
Maciek & Don, have you seen any size measurements for the high pressure gas bottles?
I also found these pictures of U-106 high pressure gas bottles :)
(http://www.britainatwar.com/central/images/gallery/1644.jpg)
(http://www.machuproject.eu/machu_cms/media/Wreck_id_256/luchtfles.jpg)
Maciek & Don, have you seen any size measurements for the high pressure gas bottles?
Estimating off the U-Boat plans the measurement are.
- Bottle width: Average 458 mm, SD = 21 mm, n = 9.
- Bottle length Type VIIC’s: Average 2492 mm, SD = 20 mm, n = 4.
Simon.
I guess the assumed image of the expansion tank of the IXC cutaway is probably the echosounder, I have previously been fooled by this image.
Tore
What make you think its the echosounder?
Don.
I should have remembered the position, but I don`t, in spite of sleeping almost on the top of it for 3 years. ;D My bunk, light blue, and the echosounder, red dot on the image below.
Tore
Simon.
I guess the assumed image of the expansion tank of the IXC cutaway is probably the echosounder, I have previously been fooled by this image.
Tore
What make you think its the echosounder?
In the book "Die Sonaranlagen der deutschen U-Boote" by Eberhard Rössler there is a description of the Echolot (Echosounder), which says that three sonic transmitters were located at port side, at the height of the Diesel engine room (just behind the bulkhead between control room and Diesel engine room).
On the photo attached by Simon we can see (if I'm not mistaken) the Diesel engine room, looking aft. In my opinion, the marked element is the most aft of the three sonic senders.
Für Tauchbunker 2 und 4, Bb und Stb bei Betrieb als Tauchzellen.
Je 1 Sicherheitsrohr. Ist der Druckwasserschalter zu, stellt das Druckwasserrohr von Restwasser der Tauchzelle über Druckwassserschalter nach außenbords das Sicherheitsrohr dar.
Bei Betrieb als Treibölbunker ist ein Druckausgleich über die Druckwasserleitung bei offenem Druckwasserschalter möglich. Zur Vermeidung von Ölspuren ist die Druckwasserleitung in den Tauchbunkern in einen abgeschlossenen Raum zwischen zwei Spanten geführt. Verbunden ist dieser Raum mit dem Bunker durch ein gebogenes Übertrittsrohr, an diesen höchster Stelle ein Entölungsrohr angeschlossen ist.
For tanks 2 and 4, port and stb, used as ballast tanks.
Each tank is fitted with safety tube. When the pressurized cooling (compensating) water selection cock is closed, the residual water in the ballast tank overflows through the selection cock and safety tube overboard to the sea (my note: I guess - but I can be mistaken - that this description refers to the surfaced condition, when the pressurized cooling water is fed to the blown ballast tank).
When operating as fuel oil tank and when selection cock is opened, the pressure is equalized through the pressurized cooling (compensating) water system. To avoid the trail of the fuel oil, the pressurized cooling (compensating) water piping in the tank is enclosed in the space between two frames. This space is connected with the tank by means of the curved pipe (my note: maybe U-shaped pipe?). At the top of this curved pipe the de-oiling tube (my note: fuel oil venting/sounding/testing pipe?) is connected.
Hello again Mr. Tore,Don.
I was thinking (Bad Don_ again)... When the U-Boat is running on the surface with the saddle tanks in the fuel oil configuration, the internal and external pressure would be about 2 atmospheres. Water or fuel oil are not compressible. Let's say the U-Boat dives to 100 meters. Now, the external pressure is about 10 atmosphere and the saddle tank were sealed. So the internal pressure is somewhat less than the external pressure I think???
Therefore, the expansion tank is open to the sea via the header tank and it provides the path for the saddle tanks pressure to equalize. Since the liquids in the saddle tank are not compressible, perhaps the the expansion tank just applies the equalizing pressure (no expansion if any)...
Am I way wrong?
Regards,
Don_
Hello Mr. Tore,
Does this rendition look OK?
Regards,
Don_
I have also attached the drawing with the external fuel tanks and ballast/fuel tanks at the type IXC/40 U-Boat. In my opinion, especially interesting is the drawing of the fuel tank (Treibolbunker), whose piping is similar to the installation given by Tore. On the other side, the arrangement of the ballast/fuel tank (Tauchbunker) is simpler than the corresponding, hypothetical piping of the ballast/fuel tank at type VIIC U-Boat.
A compensating water system is used with all fuel carrying tanks with the exception of the auxiliary tanks. Pressure on the compensating system is through the medium of a head box in the superstructure. The compensating lines to the individual fuel ballast tanks run directly to the bottom of the tank while the line for the outboard normal fuel tanks (my note: that is Treibölbunker a) leads into the small salt water niche (1.5% of fuel tank's volume) in the bottom of the tank; a line then leads from the top of the niche to the bottom of the fuel tank. [...]. Test piping with an overboard discharge leads from the bottom of all the normal fuel tanks, and from a point approximately 4 inches above the top of the flood opening on the fuel ballast tanks (my note: that is Tauchbunker). These test lines are normally used as salt water discharge lines when fueling - not only to indicate when the tank is filled with oil - but mainly to prevent possible contamination of the compensating water lines with fuel oil. All piping runs external to the pressure hull.
Q. 1. I guess you forgot the base for our assumptions which are confirmed German sources. Maciek qouted previously a German source: Je Sicherheitsrohr. Ist der Drueckwasserschalter zu, stelt das Drueckwasserrohr von restwasser der Tauchzelle ueber Drueckwasserschalter nach aussenbords das sicherheitsrohr dar.
Translated: Re safety pipe. If the selectorvalve is shut would the compensating pipe (in the tank) be connected via the selectorvalve to outboard ( the sea?) acting as a safety (relief) pipe. Hence to prevent venting, the outlet pipe takes the shortest way to the sea thru the tank as you would not have the pipe outside, .
The compensating water pipes are led from the expansion tank (head tank in fact, my note) in the conning tower casing through double-seated valves to the small expansion tanks fitted at the bottoms of the fuel tanks. The double seated valves must be either in connection with the expansion tank (head tank in fact, my note) or with the sea. The expansion tank is always in open connection with the sea and thus the fuel tanks are always equalised and the only compensating water pressure which can be applied is that due to the head of water in the expansion tank (head tank in fact, my note). This arrangement is necessary where direct blows are fitted and avoids the possibility of straining the tanks due to high pressures.
The water passes down to the tank through a double-seated valve which admits water to the tank either from the expansion tank (head tank in fact, my note) or from the sea.
Hello friends. Just wanted to leave a screenshot here of the game that we are building. Again, big thank you for all of you here for helping me to build this thing.
Hello Mr. Tore,Don.
When the ballast tanks are in the fuel oil configuration, would they open the residual valves for FBT2 to allow the pipe between the shut gate valves to flood?
Regards,
Don_
Hello Mr. Tor,If the tank has pressure, in this case deplacement pressure, this pressure forces the residue water thru the open selector valve, the air/gas remains on the top being compressed. As the residue water is drained the water entering the kingstons is partly following the residuewater up thru the selectoripe and overboard. The tankbuoyancy is gone and the submarine sits deeper in the water and eventually sinks (dives).
If the expansion pipe outlet is below the water line in the saddle tank, the how can the tank vent through the selector valve to the atmosphere? There is NO path to vent the ballast tank???
The displacement pressure has established a water level in the saddle tank. The compensating water outlet only sees the water pressure from the sea water below the ballast tank's established water level. And this pressure is dependent on depth..Don, yes but when you release the displacement pressure via the selector valve there is no counter pressure and the water rises in the tank as you have lost the buoyancy. Loosing buoyancy means the boat sinks deeper and if all the saddletanks have lost their buoyancy it means you loose almost 50 tonnes. If you should do this operation on only one tank you create a surface list and upset the surface trim.
I know must of the openings above the exhaust maniford, but what is the Yellow opening?
White = Vent valves Opening - Main ballast/Reserve fuel oil tanks.
Orange = Main Exhaust Gas Blow Valve.
Green = HP air line.
Blue = Grease Distributors Opening.
Red = Exhaust Gas Flap Valve, Outboard Opening
Yellow = ??
White - Is this the beveled gear assembly that activates the dual vent valves above the pressure hull; the ones that vents the residual trapped air in the main ballast/reserve fuel oil tanks (FBT 2) port and starboard side?
I know must of the openings above the exhaust maniford, but what is the Yellow opening?
White = Vent valves Opening - Main ballast/Reserve fuel oil tanks.
Orange = Main Exhaust Gas Blow Valve.
Green = HP air line.
Blue = Grease Distributors Opening.
Red = Exhaust Gas Flap Valve, Outboard Opening
Yellow = ??
The yellow opening is the HP line hull valve for the air bank 2 (two flasks above the diesel engine assembly patch).
I'm not sure about green opening - the valve handle looks like the valve used in the oxygen installation.
Tore, we know that the Germans do not used Tab Washers on the internal pipe flanges bolts but used Tab Washers on all pipe flanges bolts that penetrated the pressure hull.Simon.
Do you think the Germans used Tab Washers on all the external pipe flanges outside the pressure hull or only on the pipe flanges that penetrated the pressure hull?
I cannot remember for sure, but would be inclined to think they would use tabwashers or other locking devices on essential pipeflanges like fuel compensatingwater and ventducts.
Tore
Don.
From www. uboat archive.netU-570/British report.
Tore
Hi Don & Tore
I never thought about looking at this report for pipe dimensions. I have always estimated the pipe dimensions by plans and photographs. I was just flipping through the report and notice on page 40 "The diameter of the ventilation pipes leading into the ship from the conning tower fairwater is approximately 9 - 3/4"." which is 247 mm. I just checked my 3-D model and I had estimated this pipe dimensions as 246 mm :D Sorry about the inaccuracy of my model I will fixs this and will do better next time ;D ;D
This can give us confidence that we are heading in the right direction to workout how a U-boat works and is constructed!
I found two more measurements in the report.
- The diameter of the opening of the vent valves of Fuel-Ballast Tank No's 2 & 4, U-570 was 401 mm, I had estimated 385 mm (4% error).
- The diameter of Engine air induction pipe on U-570 was 546 mm I had estimated at 502 mm (8% error).
I know must of the openings above the exhaust maniford, but what is the Yellow opening?
White = Vent valves Opening - Main ballast/Reserve fuel oil tanks.
Orange = Main Exhaust Gas Blow Valve.
Green = HP air line.
Blue = Grease Distributors Opening.
Red = Exhaust Gas Flap Valve, Outboard Opening
Yellow = ??
The yellow opening is the HP line hull valve for the air bank 2 (two flasks above the diesel engine assembly patch).
I'm not sure about green opening - the valve handle looks like the valve used in the oxygen installation.
Regarding the green opening, I was not able to locate the similar valve at the port side - I'm almost sure there is only one valve.
Maybe it is the grease line for the FBT 2 residual air vent valve? Maybe the grease distributor nearby does not cover this one greasing point?
As far as I was able to trace both lines (from the unknown valve and grease distributor), they are going to grease hand-pump at the aft bulkhead of the diesel engine room.
--
Regards
Maciek
To supply the oxygen bottles contained in the German equivalent of D.S.E.A. sets. This is fitted in the control room.On the attached drawing I have marked the fitting for connecting the Drager sets and "d" valve (with red color).
Tore & Don,
I think I found the expansion tank ;D
Couldn't the small round shape at the very bottom of the saddle tank which is also right next the compensating pipe and the kingstons be the expansion tank??
It has a smaller diameter pipe coming out of it (its been cut in half but you can see it above and heading forward to the compensating valve).
Images has been resized. Click to view original image
I have labeled items on one of your images as to what I believe they are... I am not sure about the rectangular opening in the lower area of Regulating Tank 2?
Just for my own knowledge - How do you upload a huge file to this website and display a smaller image?
How do you upload a huge file to this website and display a smaller image?
Two images attached... The Q Tank section is very narrow and the Q Tank grill is square...
Look at the plating of the U 995 tanks. In the area of FBT you can see dented plates (because this tank is
not pressure-proof), while in the are of Q-tank (and regulating tanks) the plates are intact (because these
tanks are pressure-proof). Similarly with the wreck of U 352. I guess that we can look at the FBT interior now
because non-pressure-proof plating corroded, while the adjoining Q-tank is intact.
Look at the plating of the U 995 tanks. In the area of FBT you can see dented plates (because this tank is
not pressure-proof), while in the are of Q-tank (and regulating tanks) the plates are intact (because these
tanks are pressure-proof). Similarly with the wreck of U 352. I guess that we can look at the FBT interior now
because non-pressure-proof plating corroded, while the adjoining Q-tank is intact.
Maciek, do you think the plating thickness is different between the two tanks?
Outer shell plating is steel 42 (60000 psi tensile) specification KM 9104, except in the way of the variable tanks and negative tanks, which are specified to be of steel 52, (74000 psi tensile) specification KM 9104The term variable tanks mean regulating tanks, and the term negative tanks mean Q-tanks.
After doing a map of the damage... It looks like FBT 4 and Q Tank on the port side was completely blown apart when a depth charge detonated very close and below the open Kingstons on the port side and through the metal grill leading to and protecting Q Tank. The internal force blew the welded seams on FBT 4 and collapsed both the forward and aft walls of Q tank. It looks like the destruction went in as far as one vertical frame structure into R 2.
Now I have a real problem... In my Skizzernbuch page 335 I have images of the drive shafts for the Saddle tank Kingstons and there is only one drive shaft for each tank (photos) of U-995... Am I wrong?
For Flood valves for main ballast and reserve fuel oil tank 4 stb. and port 4
Maciek is 100% correct about the different thickness of sheet metal on the saddle tanks:
1. R1, R2, and Q Tank outter sheet metal is 11.5 mm thick
2. FBT 2 and FBT 4 outter sheet metal is 6 mm thick
3. The internal walls of Q Tank are 13 mm thick
PS - after looking at mt trusty steel ruler with inches on one side and mm on the other side; we're not talking about sheet metal. The 6 mm plate steel for FBT 2 and FBT 4 is a little under a 1/4 inch, and the 11.5 mm plate steel for R1, R2, and Q Tank is a little over 7/8 inch steel. This plating would have to be rolled to fit the framing. You are not going to bend that into place...
I have corrected Skizzenbuch to reflect the correct information about the number of drive mechanisms for FBT 2 and FBT 4. Would you all please review pages 334 and 335 and let me know if anything needs corrected or changed in any way?
The Type VII C U-Boat schematic below has the port Kingston Flap valves highlighted to show their location within the lower section of the saddle tanks for FBT 2 and FBT 4. Of course, there will be similar Kingston flap valves on the starboard saddle tanks. The four (4) individual Kingston flap valves are controlled (open or shut) by two (2) removable hand crank that attach to the drive shaft which passes through the pressure hull and engages the screw jack mechanism for each of the four (4) tank (FBT 2 and FBT 4, port and starboard). The locations of the drive shafts are designated by numbers 1 through 8 in the schematic. The mechanical diagram to the left shows the hand crank attached to the Kingston drive shaft which turns the screw jack external to the pressure hull, but within the saddle tank structure. The saddle tank Kingston flap valves open inward and swing from the bottom of the flap. The image of U-995 shows two (2) of the Kingston flap valves highlighted in YELLOW, and the protective grill for the Q Tank mushroom valve to the right. It may be difficult to read the numbers, but the saddle tanks have two different metal cover plating thicknesses; FBT 2 and FBT 4 have 6 mm thick outer plating, while R1, R2, and Q Tank have 11.5 mm thick plating because they are pressurized.
Drive Shafts for the Kingston Flood Valves (2 per shaft)
Simon,
I have photos in books showing the tower in detail at the factory when being built. After I get Skizzenbuck straightened out, I will copy the photos and email them to you...
Regards,
Don_
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/580/31655701993_75767a2da0_o.png)
Hello Mr. Tore and All,
Tuesday morning my Post Leather Bound First issue of Skizzenbuch was delivered to my doorstep via UPS. There was a litter inside the box taped to the binder stating that Schiffer Publishing LLC has decided not to publish the book. After a year and a half, now 2 months before the release date they canceled the book! They say the niche market is too small at this time.
To say the least; I'm a little %$*&T#, and I'll have to think about the situation...
Don_
I think I am going to have the same problem when I finish my U 47 book - the 200k+ word count and over a hundred images and drawings will not find favour with many publishers. So I guess I will be in the same boat as you.
Simon.
The rectangular drawn inside the regulating tank2 port and stb is a crossection of the venting duct from MBT 3 port and stb. passing through the regulatingtank 2 to the main vent boxes on top of the pressurehull as tried to show on my image below. The regulating tanks 2 port and stb have no connections to the fuel compensating system as they are only used as regulating tanks.
Tore
Simon.
My guestimate would be 600mm x 450mm.
Tore
@Simon.Your work is amazing, i understand that this takes years to be finished but storing this historically accurate information in this way is super amazing. The educational value of this will be tremendous. Also noted your feedback about my game periscope. Luckily in our case we are not building an exact historical replica since people will be playing this while wearing VR goggles. We have to make many modifications to accommodate their comfort levels and interactions.
Simon.
I don`t think it is only the bulkhead between regulating tanks 2 and the neg. buoyancy (Q)tank which is curved. In fact regulating/ fuel tank 1, regulating tanks 2 and the Q tank have all curved bulkheads as they are pressureproof. As the differential pressures between these tanks might vary considerably depending on their independent operation, the separation bulkheads have to be curved to resist the pressuredifferential. In spite of that, the tanks have differential manometers indicating the differential pressure enabling a monitoring that the max differential pressures are not exceeding the max. allowable values.
Tore
Tore, Don, & Maciek.Simon.
Q. Would there be a wire mesh over the opening for the MB3 valve? (I just noted there a dotted line above the opening of the MB & RTO Tank, which has a wire mesh over the opening. There no dotted line above the opening MB3 valve :-\) http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570/U-570Plate28.htm (http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570/U-570Plate28.htm)
Q. Was there a gasket on the venting valves, or just metal on metal?
Hello Mr. Tore,Don.
I change the Oil and filter on my car every 3,000 miles... Do you remember how often they changed the 2 lube oil filters on the Type VII C diesel engines?
Regards,
Don_
Simon.
As far as I remember the gatevalves did not have valve spindle extensions to the casingdeck. Wooden deckhatches would be more appropriate. Particularerly for the isolating gatevalves, as at sea the casingdeck was awashed all the time, operating the valves was difficult. Hence a conversion to the fuel storage mode was usually done alongside in harbour.
Tore
Simon.
As far as I remember the gatevalves did not have valve spindle extensions to the casingdeck. Wooden deckhatches would be more appropriate. Particularerly for the isolating gatevalves, as at sea the casingdeck was awashed all the time, operating the valves was difficult. Hence a conversion to the fuel storage mode was usually done alongside in harbour.
Tore
Tore, you are correct.
While researching the deck of the late war Type VIIC’s. I did noted that the German's had replaced these two small metal hatches, with wooden hatches on the late war Type VIIC’s.
The white purfyer on your image seems to me to be an installation on a merchant vessel, definitely not on a VIIC, but could indicate how a centrifuge module would look like.
6. What are those 2 electric lumps for in the opposite corners of the forward bulkhead used for?
6. What are those 2 electric lumps for in the opposite corners of the forward bulkhead used for?
If you mean electric pumps in the forward port and forward stb corner of the Diesel engine room, the one in the port corner is auxiliary/emergency lubricating oil pump (and transfer fuel oil pump). This pump was used to force lubricating oil through all friction surfaces of the engine, before it is started up (and when the individual lubricating oil pump driven from the crank shaft is not running). Of course, it was also used when the crank shaft driven pump is out of order.
When used as fuel oil transfer pump, this pump transfers fuel from external fuel oil tanks (tankers, depot ships and so on) to the boat's fuel oil tanks.
These pumps are vertical shaft, centrifugal pumps. The parts visible above deck plating are the electric motors, the pumps themselves are below deck. Such arrangement (similar to all other pumps) is to protect motors from splashes and water (even if pumps are flooded due to high water level in bilges, the motors are safe).
Does anybody have good photos of the Aux Water Cooling Pump/Transfer Pump in the diesel room, and the Water Cooling Pump for the e-motor bearings and thrust bearing cooling? Mine are not too good...
Hello Mr. Tore,Don, yes.
You would only change-out a failed attached gear pump when the diesel engine is shut down, is that correct?
Regards,
Don_
I have another one about rudder gauge. I attached the screenshot and you can see there are red lines marked at number 25. https://www.dropbox.com/s/hijz49wot1x8y4a/rudder.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/hijz49wot1x8y4a/rudder.jpg?dl=0)
Can you tell me what this means? If i had to guess then rudder max turn angle was 25 degrees?
Can you tell me where the manual rudder was located? In the aft torpedo room?
Patent DE470723C Filing date Jun 7, 1925 - Publication date Jan 25, 1929
Standing fluid centrifugal drum with upper supply and removal of the material to be centrifuged by axial pipes
Using the Auxiliary lubricating oil pump to transfer fuel oil from one tank to another? If you are taking fuel oil from a saddle tank, then the fuel oil goes through the tank selection valve chest then to the fuel oil valve chest and finally to the aux lubrication oil pump... Now, what path does the auxiliary lubrication pump use to get the fuel oil back to the internal fuel oil tank? It looks like the tank selection valve chest is a one-way street, unless depot refueling where fuel only flows in the opposite direction?
Fuel oil:
[...]transferring the fuel oil from main ballast and fuel oil tank to the internal fuel oil tank by means of the auxiliary lubricating oil pump:
transferring the fuel oil from the internal fuel oil tank to main ballast and fuel oil tank by means of the auxiliary lubricating oil pump:
[...]
Draining the internal fuel oil tanks? That U-Boat ain't gonna dive?
Pumping fuel from the fuel/ballast saddletanks might be a problem if you use the internal fuel system as a suction system. The reason would be that the deliverypipe, now acting suction pipe, ends on top of the saddletanks to prevent watercontamination. Without a compensating waterpressure the aux fuelpump suctionpipe would end up in the air. If for some reason you would have to transfer fuel from the saddletanks in fuelconfiguration by the aux.fueltransferpump you would use a hoseconnection possibly via the man hole.
The fuel transfer that I want to document would be from internal fuel storage tank like 1 IB. The reason for my interest is that when schnorchelling the cooling water pressure head to/from the internal fuel tanks is too high for the gravity tanks (14 mwc). So a directive was issued that when schnorchelling only the saddle tanks may be used as a fuel source to the gravity tank.
During the late war period, U-Boats with schnorchels were pretty much below the surface bound. Therefore, a fuel oil saddle tank low situation may exist, and then a the need to transfer fuel oil to the saddle tanks.
Hello Mr. Tore,
I noticed something on your upper photo just posted... Those pipes had the 3 band markings like the color bands on Plan 3. That would make it much easier to troubleshoot problems. It looks like when U-995 was refurbished for the museum that the pipe color bands got painted over!
Regards,
Don_
Tore, what means LP?
Port | Motor | Stb | Motor | |||
Days | Hours | Min | Days | Hours | Min | |
Total operating time since commissioning: | 220 | 18 | 33 | 221 | 15 | 30 |
Total operating time during the last patrol: | 37 | 7 | 37 | 37 | 22 | 15 |
Revolutions since commissioning: | 83 | 148 | 596 | 84 | 922 | 374 |
Revolutions during the last patrol: | 13 | 398 | 180 | 14 | 144 | 920 |
If you zoom on my image, then it looks like the intermediate wheel is missing some teeth. If someone has a better resolution image, then this can be confirmed...
After disassembly of the internal exhaust gas valve, it was found that the seat of the valve was burnt or ground out over half of its perimeter. Repair was not possible by on board means. The external valve is tight.
I placed the latest version of Skizzenbuch in my Dropbox folder... Maciek, I corrected pages 431 and 438, thanks again....
I have been struggling with the Junkers Exhaust System...
[...]
I have attached the new images - what do you all think?
In addition, I assume a second exhaust valve was introduced outside the pressure hull which has an air connection on the water side to blow the exhaust pipe between the valve and the muffler and operated from inside the pressure hull, with interlock to the aft buoyancy vent valve as previously discussed. As a final countermeasure a water-trap was fitted just before the Junker exhaust outlet as indicated on the system image Plan 13 for the GW engines (See partial plan below right).In this fragment you are talking about interlocking the exhaust valve with aft buoyancy tank vent valve. I guess that part was not corrected during your latest updates.
However, for U-995, it looks like the external exhaust control lever next the Junkers compressor exhaust valve grinding mechanism works with the interlock which prevents shutting the grinding plate exhaust valve while the Junker compressor is operational and passing its exhaust gases to the water cooled muffler.As I mentioned before, I have different opinion on this matter, however I cannot proof it.
How about this for a proposal of the entire system...
Where does the exhaust pipe penetrate the pressure hull... Hmmmm! I thought that you or Mr. Tore would be the better person to answer that question. I would think it would be somewhere near the back side of the Junkers compressor close to the water trap. I sure hope it wasn't at the location of what is now the entrance door. The short answer is "I Don't Know"...
The approach to the junkers exhaust exit looks to be much simpler in the Type IX C built 7.8.43, They have a selector valve that dumps any water from the exhaust pipe to the bilge... There is no water separator, and the internal exhaust goes to the internal exhaust valve casing, but nothing is shown at the exterion of the pressure hull...
The exhaust separator on U-995 looks a little more advanced than the one on U-570. U-570's separator looks to be positioned higher, but it looks like U-995's separator had a pressurized drain system... I believe there are two drain pipes at the top of U-995's separator.
There may be a sight glass and a valve cut-off on the upper drains, or some type of a float valve inside the separator because they don't want exhaust fumes going to the bilge and then throughout the pressure hull...
...and, Maciek notice there are two (2) tanks below the Junkers compressor.
However, the photo c4834_o (attached) from the Wilhelm Bauer shows a Junkers exhaust valve in the aft section, in place of the original Bold ejector (your photo). That looks to be dead wrong!
I believe that I understand everything you posted except the following:
"The question is, why Norwegians did not remove the Junkers compressor, when they decided to put the bold/flares ejector in place of the exhaust valve?"
At the beginning of your post you state that Tore's photo is of the exhaust valve (I think so).
1. The current bold ejector on U-995 above the Junkers compressor looks to be correct, and it matches up with the outer hull casing. Is this correct?
2. The current exhaust valve in the upper pressure hull looks to be original in U-995, but the junkers exhaust pipe was cut off. So we don't see the exhaust pipe to the water separator or the exhaust pipe from the separator Which should go to an exhaust hull valve (I think). Is this correct?
First - the original German Bold ejector is mounter on the pressure hull above the Junkers compressor, and it aligns with the external slot in the external hull casing. There is a hinge on the Bold so that when the ejector is opened internally an new cartridge may be inserted.
In back of the junkers compressor is the water separator which is the exact same separator that you Identified in the U-570 photo.
We do have a water separator on the exhaust...
Don't these photos look the same?In my opinion, the exhaust separator on U 570 photo is closer to the boat's centerline, while the HP air separator on U 570 is just at the hull.
Does this photo help with the space issue?
The only thing that bothers me is that the Wilhelm Bauer Type XXI has that device in place of the original Bold. It does not in any way look like the SSE Mark 2 or the SSE Mark 4.
The device in U-995 does not look to have the ability to swing open like the Mark 2, nor does it have the ability to hinge open like the Mark 4 because of the pipe and the segment shaft to the interlock.
Mr. Tore cold resolve the question about the junkers compressor...
*********************************************************************
Mr. Tore - do you remember if the Junkers air compressor was ever used on U-995?
*********************************************************************
If the Junkers compressor was used by the Norwegians, then changes were made during the Museum renovation; But what changes?
I am wrong... It looks like you and Mr. Tore are correct! When one has so much time invested in a theory, then it's hard to let go.
Please go to this web site and review the posts because it looks like the bold device in U-995 and Wilhelm Bauer is from a Klass 205 U-Boat.
http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php?topic=13257.15 (http://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/index.php?topic=13257.15)
See the photos...
1. shaft (for opening the external flap)
2. gear for driving interlock (to prevent opening the internal flap when external flap is opened and vice-versa)
3. shaft for driving interlock
4. blanked connection
5. line connection for flooding/draining the ejector
6. the hinge
7. the shaft for opening internal flap
… "Krystall Klare Publishing“ …
Hello Mr. Tore and All,Very sorry to learn the bad news, Maciek was a man of great VIIC knowledges, yet very modest in promoting his theories. It was a pleasure getting to know him and exchanging ideas as well as theories on the VIICs. Maciek, on my last post to you: R.I.P.
It is my sad duty to inform you all that I have received an email this morning from Maciek Florek's wife, Olga Florek, that he had recently passed away. I will truly miss my very dear friend. However, a friendship is forever, so I look forward to seeing Maciek later!
Kind regards,
Don_
Hello Mr. Tore,
I was wondering if you had any photos or drawings showing the gate valves on the common air venting trunk for FBT 2 and FBT 4? Was there enough room below the wooden deck and the fairly small metal deck door to have an attached hand wheel to open/shut the gate valves. or was the hand wheel just removed?
See attached photo...
I can see where there would be space for the FBT 2 residual gate valve hand wheels could be present...
Regards,
Don_
Hello Mr. Tore,
I was wondering if you had any photos or drawings showing the gate valves on the common air venting trunk for FBT 2 and FBT 4? Was there enough room below the wooden deck and the fairly small metal deck door to have an attached hand wheel to open/shut the gate valves. or was the hand wheel just removed?
See attached photo...
I can see where there would be space for the FBT 2 residual gate valve hand wheels could be present...
Regards,
Don_
Hi Simon,
Great info... I have attached a photo that shows the FBT 4 and FBT 2 vent holes in the saddle tanks.
I have marked with red dots on your drawing where I believe the FBT 2 residual gate valves are located under the wooden deck hatches. Do you think this is correct? Also, is there room to have hand-wheels attached to these gate valves under the deck, or were the hand-wheels always removed for this set as well? That photo I had of a crewman getting out in bad weather with a hand wrench (Claw) tool makes me believe the hand-wheel was once a possibility...
Regards,
Don_
Hi Don
I was looking at page 86 and the FBT4's gates valves are cover with different hatches compare to FBT2's. I will try to post pictures today after work.
Simon
(37096971424_5f62d20993_o) - this drawing sort of compares to the attached photo of U-201. If you look at the RED circled area there is a hole in the deck. During the change-over to the water ballast configuration the FBT 2 and FBT 4 gate valves must be opened (access through the wooded deck doors)?
What does this mean for the drawing for U - 1308 and the metal plates with holes to change the gate valve configuration?
Hello Mr. Tore,
I solved one issue that was confusing me... "Austritt Triebölmeßgefäß" = Outlet drive oil measuring vessel or "fuel oil measuring vessel", this is NOT an "Air Gauge" that I had labeled on Plan 8 and Plan 8a!!! I could not figure how to get it to work and measure fuel oil pressure...
I found "Austr Triebölmeßgefäß" in the Type IX plans and we had "Austr Meßgefäß" in the type VII C plans for the same device...
Regards,
Don
Hi Simon,
What is different from this?
Regards,
Don_
Hi Simon,It does look like a lube oil knife type filter. But it seen that one pipe is going forward and the other is going aft ??? We need to check with Tore.
Circled in yellow - lube oil knife type filter?
Don_
Don and others interested.[/size]A few years back Maciek introduced me to an US author Larry Simpson who was looking for a technical consultant on German Uboats like VIICs and IXCs. I volunteered on a non paid basis, but after Maciek passed away I became the only technical consultant to the writer. Larry Simpson wrote a fiction book of a German WW2 submarine deploying a weather station in Alaska. We decided to choose a IXC /40type and used the U 807, a boat having keel laid down in 1943 but never commissioned. We worked on the book for about two years and in these days it is published on Amazon. The title is Cold Refuge by Larry Simpson. Larry let the Chief engineer explain the technical details related to the uboat and as he was`t fully conversant with the law of Archimedes he, with my consent, introduced me as the chief of the U 807 explaining the details. If you have a Kindle you might get a copy at Amazon for a very reasonable price. I guess the book is interesting as the story of the Uboat weather stations are not widely known.Tore[/color]
Oddly, the Trumpeter kit actually has that piping. Some of the few pipes they actually molded. This is a pic from another builder but it shows those drains, albeit a little overscale. That's easy enough to recreate in brass wire.Katuna
What is the actual purpose of the FO gravity tank?
It's Winter season down under in New Zealand, so I guess Simon is busy at work studying avalanches and working on his advanced degree!
Tore - Can you translate these telegraph labels. I'm going through several pages of data on U-Historia and translating several pages of info but my Google Translate Can't seem to figure most of this one out. No doubt the abbreviated words are tripping it up. Thanks.
Hello Mr. Tore,
Were the tables with the wing nuts photo taken from U-995 of U-926 when you were the EO?
Regards,
Don_
Hello Raymic1,
In this case:
1. High speed would be battery serial (220 VDC unregulated) and the e-motor armatures in parallel (least resistance and higher current flow).
2. Low speed would be battery parallel (110 VDC unregulated) and the e-motor armatures in series (greatest resistance and lower current flow).
The term "switched together" is not technical enough and must be defined? As together in battery in parallel, or as together in battery in series. It looks like he meant Parallel for low speed...
Regards,
Don_
Using the motor - series-parallel - switch and battery - parallel-serial - switch three drive speed ranges corresponding three voltage ranges can be set (see E Sketchbook) | ||||||||
| ||||||||
Within these three ranges, further adjustments can be done by changing the current in shunt windings using the double motor field rheostat. | ||||||||
U-boat Information | ||||||||
for | ||||||||
U-boat Type VIIC |
Hello Mr. Tore,Steve, the stanchions and railing were originals, surfaced and submerged, however they were easy removable. For war patrols, and exercises they were removed as they were ratling quite a bit submerged.
The pictures are fascinating. I love seeing them.
Were the stanchions/handrails on deck added post-war? Did they stay on when submerging?
Thanks,Steve
The round hatch I have circled in red. It is indeed rare to see any photo of the outboard side of the engines.Katuna
Could you possibly post that drawing by Simon by itself? I've never seen that one before and it would be most helpful at the stage I'm at with my model. I tried enlarging the pic you posted but it comes out much too blurry.
As always, thank you for your wisdom.
The normal starting procedure is always to "blow trough" as we called it (mainly running the engine by starting air with open indicator cocks without fuel) prior to a normal upstart. Blowing out the waterintrusion by starting air is as mentioned previously risky.
Hello Mr. Tore,Don. On the museums U 995 they have not tried to conserve the original colours and it is hard to see the system of colours ( if any). Do not use the red painted valves, cocks, grease cups, gauges etc. as a reference. They have evidently left it to the painter to chose the colour he prefers, to me it looks more like an amusement park than the interior of a WW2 VIIC.
I noticed that the Selector Valves for air distribution in the Diesel engine room were both painted red on U-995, even though they look to be on the port and starboard side. Is red the original color for both valves? ???
Regards,
Don_
Hello Mr. Tore and All,Hi Don, The metal covered leather post binder look beautiful! Would be keen to do something like that for my book, where did you get it done?
Here are the attached photos of the only known printed version of Skizzenbuch. The metal covered leather post binder and the 11 x 17 inch 80 pound card stock paper and the printing cost came to about $690.00. This was my Christmas present to me!
Regards,
Don_
Hello Mr. Tore,Not sure if this is helpful but the aerial periscope on U-995 is not for a Type VIIC its from a Type XXIII.
The photo of the modernized Kya reveals a clear wind screen at the front of the bridge/tower sail. Was it a fold down type or permanently in place. There also looks to be an extension tube to the aerial periscope. Did they switch from using the attack periscope while schnorchelling to the aerial periscope because of the larger head optics?
This would mean that they extender the length of the aerial periscope to place it near the schnorchel head... That would eliminate the issue with the exhaust gases in front of the attach periscope causing vision problems.
<See attached drawing>
Regards,
Don_
Don and Simon. It seems to me that they have removed the aerial or navigation periscope on the museum U-995 and possibly substituted with an attack periscope for some reason. Below are a few images showing the original aerial, navigation periscope from my time onboard. The other image shows the last German CO Hess during a visit end 1990 looking into the aerial , navigation periscope, currently installed and clearly a different type. The last image shows U-995 returning from her last patrol in the Barentz sea march 1945 to Trondheim to have her Schnorchel installed.
Tore
Hi Simon,When Maciek and I were working on the periscope project we realise it was the wrong periscope.
Do you have any documentation or photos that will verify it is a Type XXIII periscope? It looks like the forward periscope optical tube has a much smaller diameter than the original Type VII C Aerial Periscope optical tube...
Regards,
Don_
Hello Mr. Tore and Simon,
Do we have any idea as to what happened to the original U-995 aerial periscope?
Regards,
Don_
Does anyone know if there is a color version of the pipe identification code plate?
Hello Mr. Tore,Don.
Do you have any photos that show the blister on the port side casing for the schnorchel air intake, and the exhaust piping above the deck in the starboard side. Marcus, the model builder seems to believe the all was under the deck on U-995 (Laura S-309)?
Regards,
Don_
Hello Mr. Tore,Don.
Do you have any photos that show the blister on the port side casing for the schnorchel air intake, and the exhaust piping above the deck in the starboard side. Marcus, the model builder seems to believe the all was under the deck on U-995 (Laura S-309)?
Regards,
Don_
Hi Simon,
Interesting... Plate 10 does indicate that the pipe from the header tank going to MB & RFO Tank 2/4 and to the pressure hull are smaller. The pipe coming from the header tank to the mufflers and the over-flow drainage pipe are larger.
The capacity from both running diesel engines water pumps would be about 96 cubic meters of cooling water per hour; Therefore I believe the larger diameter pipe from the mufflers may be required, as well as the larger diameter overflow pipe from the header tank.
Regards,
Don_
Don and Simon.
Sorry I have been away for a few days. I guess Simons observation that the common CW pipe from the two silencer to the headertank is larger than the direct makeup lines between the headertank and silencer is correct, the overflow of the headertank must be able to handle the full coolingwater capacity of both engines. I guess the supply pipe from the headertank through the pressurehull would be 55mm diam all the way including the shutoff- and reliefvalves inside the pressurehull.
Tore
Hello Mr. Tore,
Then if your spares included Intake and Exhaust valves, then your crew used the lifting bar to pull the head casting to replace the valves. That seems like a very time consuming Job to me, along with replacing the crankshaft bearings - Wow! It's a darn fortunate thing that you were not being hassled by Allied aircraft and British Destroyers when attempting to repair an ailing diesel engine...
Regards,
Don_
Hello Mr. Tore,Hi Don
I believe you have been copied on the email schnorchel discussions the past month or so with Simon. Arron S. Hamilton's book "Total Undersea War" has a great deal of info about the schnorchel and procedures. I was reading through some of what is available online (I just ordered the book on Amazon) and I have a few questions related to starting the GW Diesel engine...
1. They bring the U-Boat up to 25 meters and raise the schnorchel, then continue up to attack periscope depth.
2. The schnorchel head is above the water and then the Schnorchel air supply shut-off valve is opened and the water in the schnorchel air supply tube is drained into the bilge.
3. The internal exhaust valve is opened to enable schnorchelling and the blowing valve for the selected diesel engine is opened to direct the exhaust gases to the schnorchel.
4. The GW Diesel engine is started with air...
Now, here is where your expertise is needed:
When the GW diesel engine is running on air, how long is it before you switch over to running on fuel oil? I believe the internal air pressure in the GW diesel exhaust system will start to build up at a fairly rapid pace. Therefore, they need to monitor the exhaust air pressure, and open the schnorchel exhaust shot-off valve at the appropriate pressure to blow out the water in the schnorchel exhaust side (something like blowing the ballast tanks). I doubt if the schnorchel exhaust blowing is done while the GW diesel engine is running on fuel oil...
Q1 - How long will the GW air startup normally take?
Q2 - The book stated that the GW supercharger and the MAN turbocharger must both be turned off while schnorchelling. I thought the MAN turbo charger was constantly running?
Regards,
Don_
Hello Mr. Tore,
I agree that the drain capacity is there as you described... However, the schnorchel exhaust pipe outlet is about 0.5 meters below the seawater's surface level. You can drain the schnorchel's exhaust mast all day and never empty it because it will constantly be refilled by the surface water! Therefore, the Schnorchel's exhaust mast must be blown and then start the Diesel engine immediately to maintain the opened exhaust capability with the exhaust pressure...
Regards,
Don_
Patrick Salmen who has a great collection of digital copies of original U-Boat manuals and documentation. He seems to get good access to U-995 and does some volunteer work.
Regards,
Don