Author Topic: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details  (Read 576475 times)

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Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2115 on: 16 Aug , 2014, 13:51 »
Jon.
I guess it shall work, it is a 6 cylinder turbocharged MAN, it is not intercooled and has even a VIIC model at the step. Funny crankcasecovers though, I am not sure if they are expansion vents for possible crankcase explosions or not.
Tore

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2116 on: 16 Aug , 2014, 18:25 »
Hello Mr. Tore and Jon,


I had that photo of the MAN Diesel, but I didn't notice the model U-Boat setting on the step...  Apparently Mr. Tore's eyesight is much better than mine...


Regards,
Don_
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2117 on: 16 Aug , 2014, 19:05 »
Hello Mr. Tore,


Could you post the one photo with the crewman is shorts cranking the outer exhaust flap valve hand-wheels.  I believe the photo I had with the two crewmen cranking the inner exhaust flap valves in the back of the diesel room.


Was the crewman is shorts in a VII or a IX?


Regards,
Don_
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2118 on: 16 Aug , 2014, 23:01 »
Hello Mr. Tore and Jon,


I had that photo of the MAN Diesel, but I didn't notice the model U-Boat setting on the step...  Apparently Mr. Tore's eyesight is much better than mine...

Regards,
Don_
Don.
That`s possibly because I am a 1929 model ;D ;D !
Tore
« Last Edit: 16 Aug , 2014, 23:04 by tore »

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2119 on: 16 Aug , 2014, 23:12 »
Don.
Here is the photo, but remember it is most probably  type XXI boat and definitely not a VIIC. As I said I don`t think the intercooled MAN was ever used in a VIIC as the output max cont 2000 bhp against the VIICs 1400 bhp and max. cont revs 520 against VIICs 480 rpm would be too much for the existing shafting and E-motors of the VIICs. Moreover the torsional vibrations would probably be different.
 As to the inner or outer flapvalves I cannot comment because I don`t know the XXI, but I guess they are the same valves on both photos  only that the photo of the man in shorts is taken from aft towards the bow and the photo of the two men  is taken from forward towards aft. You can see that on the intercooler of the latter.
Tore
« Last Edit: 16 Aug , 2014, 23:59 by tore »

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2120 on: 17 Aug , 2014, 21:20 »
Hello Mr. Tore,


You have discussed a normal dive with an angle of about 7 - 8 degrees...  What are the differences if this is an ALARM - Crash dive?


Regards,
Don_
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2121 on: 18 Aug , 2014, 01:14 »
Don.
The German alarm dive is a typical wartime manoeuvre and required a highly trained crew to perform, it is not a matter of divingangle alone. There are several ways to carry out crashdives, some potentially dangerous like preflooding the ballasttanks and excessive diving angles. Generally you may say a crashdive required a combination of speed (hydroplanes lifts) and flooding. Crash dives are performed under roughly 3 major circumstances 1. Dieselcruising on the surface, when you have the speed ( hydroplane efficiency), as well as the Q filled and the submarine is prepared for diving. 2. After surfacing and during exhaustblowing of ballast tanks, that`s why some COs preferred to use one of the diesels for propulsion to have a surfacespeed rather than an e- motor having much lower output. 3. At the surface, charging the batteries, some CO preferred to have a dieselpropulsion as well. Under all conditions the submarine is prepared for crashdives in hostile waters and possibilities of suprise attacks. The schnorchelling made these crashdives a bit easier.
Basically the first stage, from a divingangle point of view, is the normal 7-8 degrees as you want to have sufficient water above your propellers and hydroplanes all the time. As soon as you are below the surface and you want to go deep, you start  blowing Q at 10 meters as previously described.  At approximately 20 meters controlroom reading you turn the bow down between 8 and max. 30 degrees depending upon circumstances, watching the bow depth carefully, at 25 degrees bow down it is some 30 meters wc pressure difference between bow and stern, before eventually flatten out. See my sketch below.
Tore

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2122 on: 18 Aug , 2014, 12:25 »
Hello Mr. Tore,


Excellent...  I will add this to my Skizzenbuch and I believe it's about finished.  I can't thank you enough for the information and the education...


Kind regards,
Don_


PS
Credits for my book...


I know Mr. Tore's full name, City?, Norway, Rank and dates from & to served on Haura (ex U-995)
I know Maciek's full name, Warsaw,Poland, I called him the Professor because he really knows the German documentation and he translated most that's available.
I know Simon's first name only.  City?, New Zealand, I used a few of his excellent drawings. He is quite talented and has an eye for details.
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2123 on: 18 Aug , 2014, 13:07 »
Don.
For the sake of order, when U-995 served in the Royal Norwegian Navy she was named KNM (Royal Norwegian Navy) Kaura having pennant no S 309. I live in Bærum next to Oslo. Good luck with your skizzenbuch.
Tore
« Last Edit: 18 Aug , 2014, 13:10 by tore »

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2124 on: 18 Aug , 2014, 13:35 »
Hello Mr. Tore,


Excellent...  I will add this to my Skizzenbuch and I believe it's about finished.  I can't thank you enough for the information and the education...


Kind regards,
Don_


PS
Credits for my book...


I know Mr. Tore's full name, City?, Norway, Rank and dates from & to served on Haura (ex U-995)
I know Maciek's full name, Warsaw,Poland, I called him the Professor because he really knows the German documentation and he translated most that's available.
I know Simon's first name only.  City?, New Zealand, I used a few of his excellent drawings. He is quite talented and has an eye for details.

Hi Don

Simon J Morris, Castle Hill, New Zealand

Don, I live in a small village in the mountain call Castle Hill (only about 20 people), Christchurch (about 1½ hours drive away) is my nearest small city (Pop. 350,000).
« Last Edit: 19 Aug , 2014, 16:50 by NZSnowman »

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2125 on: 19 Aug , 2014, 16:47 »

Hello Mr Tore,


Past 1497, Page 140 "The gate valves and drain valves are operated from the deck casing"....


To me, it looks like the gate valves hand-wheels are located inside the pressure hull and the drain valves for the common duct must be opened from the out side under the deck casing?


Am I all wet again?


Regards,
Don_

A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2126 on: 20 Aug , 2014, 00:53 »
Don.
I guess you are referring to plate 16 and understand your confusion. The drawing is a bit misleading as some valves like the emergency shutoff valves c are drawn correctly having the valvespindle through the pressure hull indicated by a double line crossing the spindle and the gatevalve spindles d not crossed by a double line, indicating to be operated outside the pressurehull eg. from the casingdeck, I guess  by a T bar, thus no wheel. However the confusion is, the Kingstons and the main ventvalves for some reasons are not marked with a double line even if they are operated from inside the pressurehull. If you look at some of Simons excellent drawings shown below it clearly indicates how the system works. I believe the valve wheels are removed and the valve spindles are operated by a T bar as  mentioned and can be seen on many photos.
Tore
« Last Edit: 20 Aug , 2014, 01:26 by tore »

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2127 on: 25 Aug , 2014, 01:13 »
Don.
Although you are about finished with your Skizzenbuch I`ll mention a small but important detail of your description of Plate 8 page 58.  When fuelling, the seawatercompensating system is open as well, the selector valve is in fueltank configuration eg. direct connected to the fuel/ballasttanks 2 and 4. When fuelling deliverypressure is exceeding the compensating pressure the compensatingwater is forced overboard via the header tank. It is important to prevent any fuel to enter the system ( danger of oilslick) thus the compensating waterpipe in the fueltanks is at the lowest point in the tanks approximately 10 cm. lower than the the testpipe to ensure the man checking the testcock has time to shut of the fuelsupply. Due to this it is always some residue compensatingwater left in the tanks.
Tore   

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2128 on: 26 Aug , 2014, 12:17 »
Thank you Mr. Tore...


I have added a graphic and a paragraph to Skizzenbuch.


Regards,
Don_
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2129 on: 26 Aug , 2014, 14:18 »
Don.
Good. As to the high voltage general electric scheme  I got the advice to have it scanned, unfortunately in the rural remote area of my farm I have no possibilities of getting that done. When moving back to civilisation some time in October I`ll  try to have it done.
Tore