Aft torpedo tube type VIIc

[Grimsby]

Hello. I need help with the outer cover aft torpedo tube of a type VIIC. How do you open the lid?
I have not found any pictures in the open position.

Sorry. My English is not very good.

Greetings.

[Jan]

Hello, had the same problem...according to a drawing, in "Vom Original zum Modell", there are actually two lids: One "inner lid", which closes the torp-tube and one "outer lid" which kind of "hides" the whole story. Unless you want to display your boat with an open aft top tube, i think you can take a pic of U-995s aft torp tube as a guide...

[Grimsby]

Thanks Jan.

I really want to leave open those two caps for display within a torpedo.

[Rokket]

This is for U 505, a IXC, but it is the same thing, just two tubes not one. The actual hull door ("shutter") is a little different, that opened UP on the VIICs. I'll see if I can find a shot of that too...but this is the tube part with tube door;



Very Outside ("hull) door = SHUTTER (on USNavy subs)
Muzzle door = OUTER DOOR
Breech door = INNER DOOR

[Grimsby]

Thanks Rokket.

Very good picture.

I also still looking for some of VIIC.

Regards.

[Pat]

Interesting that the colour inside the casing is a lighter grey than the outside antifouling paint.  That means that it would be easier to see the inside details on the pressure hull of model since you can make the colour lighter.

[Jan]

Hmmm, I doubt those colours are authentic... but who knows...

[Rokket]

Yeah, the colours are  abit bluey - in real life, not just the pic. I would be guided by Dougie's research.

[Rokket]

Here's U 995. She's hacked up and modified and unauthentic, but the stern seems OK. Not my pic so have tried to brighten a bit.

[Pat]

I agree that the outer antifouling looks way too blue.  Either an artifact of the photography or somebody has it wrong.  The antifouling colours I see are normally anywhere from a medium grey, through slate grey to black.

I was thinking more about the interior colours just being lighter than the exterior rather than an exact copy of the colours in the photo.  Is it possible they used the topsides colour on the interior parts that were not constantly submerged? 

Antifouling paint is about 3 X more expensive than topsides paint and it uses up copper (all modern antifouling paints and many WWII paints) or tin (banned these days but common in WWII era) which might have been in short supply for other purposes during the war.  It's also a lot more difficult to apply since the fumes can be dangerous even when painting outside.  After all, antifouling paint is meant to kill marine life.  Anybody who's ever put on antifouling can recognize its very distinctive smell.

Antifouling would also increase galvanic action (the reason for the zincs on the rudders and dive plane supports that I talked about before) and it has to be reapplied frequently, at least once a year or more in tropical waters, as opposed to the topsides paint that can stay there for the life of the boat (until it rusts off anyway) and doesn't cause any problems with the metals.

So I'm wondering if for those reasons, they might have used as little antifouling as possible and used the topsides paint for any surfaces, including those inside the casing, that weren't underwater all the time.

[Seewolf]

Hello Pat,
the anti fouling paint is all the time giving poison to the water around the boat to kill marine live, that means the boat is swimming in a cloud of death for small marine life, it is no need to paint the inside with antifouling will be to much work to expensive and to much time consumption... and will not increase the antifouling effect because it is allready a poison cloud around the boat.
But the question wich paint, light or dark gray... that you have to find out for every single boat... I know for Blohm & Voss U 96 was in the early time a light gray so I guess will be the same for my U 98.
But dark Grey is also possible for other boats, in the early time more common to use light grey but not an 100% must.... very difficult, to much dockyards to less pics 

[Pat]

Seewolf, I understand the colours of the outer hull of the boats.  What I'm talking about though is the inside part, between the pressure hull and the casing.  It's not underwater any more than the outside part of the topsides, so the question is whether it would have been painted with antifouling, like thelower pressure hull, or regular paint, like the topsides and conning tower.

The outer part of the boat I'm building U-711, appeared in photos to be a very light grey (or perhaps even white, which was seen on some Arctic route boats - it's hard to tell), with three black swirls, one about midway from the bow, one midway to the stern and one by the conning tower.

The problem is making the inner parts visible since it's very dark looking through the free flood holes in the casing.  If they're dark antifouling, they're very hard to see but if they're the same colour as the topsides then they might be easier to see.  And since topside paint lasts longer and is cheaper to make etc. as I said, then it seems reasonable to think they might be painted topsides colours.

[Seewolf]

Hi Pat,
The inside parts between the pressure hull and the casing, I don`t belive that this parts are painted with antifouling because of reasons I wrote above. But of course that don`t answer your question... realy I don`t know, in the moment I`am more concentrated on the VII C`s but the most pictures of the later VII c/41 looks dark between the casing    I guees, like you,  it is ordernary primer or paint.

[Pat]

Seewolf, that DOES answer the question to an extent.

If the parts between the casing and the PH were primed and painted with topsides paint and not antifouling, then they could in effect be almost any colour.  That means that they could be dark on some boats, or light on others depending on what was available in the shipyard at the time.  Or what colour the parts came from the various suppliers.

For instance, hi-pressure air lines or tanks might not necessarily be the same colour as the spare torpedo storage tanks, and neither might be the same colour as the air intake ducting or exhaust pipes.

In particular, it might be reasonable to think that some of the shut-off taps and valves would be bright red to be able to see them in an emergency or while working during refit.   Underneath the deck the bright red wouldn't matter, since any enemy close enough to spot the colour between the decking would already have seen the boat.

I've often wondered about the colour of the hi-pressure air tanks in that regards since at least today, welders oxygen tanks are a royal blue while the acetylene tanks are sort of a moss green.  (Or perhaps I have them reversed, I don't weld)  In any case, it makes sense to be able to tell them apart easier.

Again, if that's the case, then it means that we could make these in-between parts more visible through the free-flow holes by using different colours.  This would make them show up a little better in the dark. 

Not that the colours would be vastly different.  But if even some of the parts on top of the PH were the colour of the topsides (different shades of grey) and the air lines and tanks say a welding air blue, it would give them some definition in the dark.

Now, if only there was some way to find out for sure.

[Seewolf]

Pat this is the warnavy order for painting U-Boote, order No 31 March 1940

PH and coning tower inside:
two times primer- color not specified
under floor - white
opper floor - ivory
bilge - color not specified
and so on and so on

PH and conning tower outside:
under waterline
                      - two times primer - color not specified (common was 1.primer darck orange/red/brown 2. primer light gray, but maybe varies from dock to dock)
                       - one time waterline paint I 21a - grey

PH                    - one time waterline paint III 23b - grey, one time waterline paint I 21a - grey
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
over waterline
                     - two times primer - color not specified, two times camo paint petrol resitent Tp58 - grey matt OR two times Ka 51 - grey matt

Amendment to this order is: the exact paint for every Boot is to ask by HQ comand (B.d.U.)

During the war the dockyards and docks at the U-Boote bases have had  to use what they have, means a lot of improvisation.
This source about the painting I found in the net, somewhere... don`t know how thrustfull it is. 1944 they changed the order a little bit but mostley depends quality of paint and primer.
Cheers