Decision Made; Wisdom required

[TRM]

Hello all,

I feel I have come to the decision of which model to attempt.  The U-69!

I will be starting a build log once I get my S**t together. 

She has the lines that are appealing to me, including the early modifications that were later removed. i.e. the net cutters, breakwaters and after the addition of the wind deflector, all outlined in Rokket's:U-BOATS: Type VII Modifications   http://amp.rokket.biz/docs/vii_modifications.pdf (great piece of work!!!).  The right coloring and interesting storyline as well, right down to the "Laughing Cow"

The final decision came while reading I noticed she was launched on Sept 19th,  that would be my Birthday. I have seen stranger things decided on by less.  LOL!

Wisdom Part:

1 - I will asking a lot of dump questions along the way, be patient.
2 - Do you feel that an accurate representation of the U-69 can be made using knowledge from other boats built around the same time, and from the same yard?
3 - Do you have any other pictures other than the 11 that are the most common, these 1st two I am not sure about   (feel free to add any here)
4 - Was this actually the 1st VIIC to be launched (read it...but you know the internet)

The following (most credible)sites I am looking though but coming up with the same:

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&sl=es&u=http://www.u-historia.com/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dwww.u-69.net%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26hs%3DgGV%26sa%3DG%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26channel%3Ds&rurl=translate.google.com&usg=ALkJrhgOddnw89f2FNub4Jun9IaCGSOMAw

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//index.php
http://ubootwaffe.net/forum/index.php?sid=8a4b90b1ae9f6c4a84ca2d7f45423f12
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-570GeneralPlan.htm
http://www.uboat.net/index.html

and of course: http://models.rokket.biz/index.php

Please feel free to add any I missed.  I have looked through a lot of sites in the last couple of weeks getting spotted stuff here and there.  I am not apposed to buying some books that would cover the 69, have not found any.

Appreciate any and all help you forward my way.

Thanks guys! 

[Greif]

Hi TRM, good choice for your first uboot.  Her being launched on the same day as your birthday is pretty cool.

To your questions:
1)  Ask away, you will find the members here are as patient as they are knowledgable.

2)  You can absolutely build a very accurate model of U69.  Dougie Martindale's two articles entitled  "U-BOATS: Type VIIC Free-Flooding Vent Patterns" and "U-BOATS: Kriegmarine U-Boat Colours & Markings" on the AMP Website is the best place to start researching.  You are going to have to do a bit of modifying on the free flooding vents of the model, but the technique is not hard, and based on pictures of your previous builds, you will not have any problem mastering it.  There are also some good books available that provide invaluable information.  Robert Stern's "Type VII U-Boats" gives an excellent overview.  David Westwood's "Anatomy of the Ship:  The Type VII U-Boat" has a wealth of drawings and some good pictures.  Finally, Fritz K

[TRM]

Ernest,

Thank you again!  Especially for the book info.  I will be web shopping by the weekend it seems.  I may need a little help on my German  .  They do say a picture is worth a thousand words though.

Cheers!

[Pat]

The first picture you show of the boat in harbour, almost broadside to the camera is pretty good, and a couple of questions it raises with me.

Just aft (to the right) of the CT, and almost underneath the feet of the first man you come to, there appears to be two black squares on the casing.  Does anybody know what that is?

I don't see a deck gun, but it looks like the shadow from a wave deflector in front of the CT.  I'd thought the deflectors (and the net cutters) were removed earlier than the 88's, so does anybody have an explanation?

This MIGHT be a training cruise, or perhaps a pre-acceptance cruise, since it looks like the CT is a lighter (yellow?) colour above the wave deflector on the CT.  If so, that might help date the picture and also might give a possible explanation why there's no 88mm installed yet.

It also seems to be riding very high out of the water judging by how much shows below the waterline.  This would also suggest a trials cruise since the boat would be lighter without some equipment installed. 

[Greif]

Hi Pat, I can't answer your first question.  I think the uboot is being towed by a tug, part of which you can see in the right part of the picture.  There also does not appear to be a 2.0 cm AA Gun.  Based on that, and the fact that the uboot is riding so high out of the water, no fuel?, I'm going to guess it is being towed to a location for final fitting out.

Ernest

[dougie47]

Hi gents,

I reckon Ernest is right that it is being towed before final fitting out. Some details such as the armament haven't yet been added. The two dark rectangles. I guess they are panels of some sort that haven't been fitted yet. Or they have been left off to allow access to something behind it.

TRM, nice choice on U 69. The Germans sometimes numbered their boats out of sequnce with the express intention of disguising numbers of boat built from the enemy. For U-numbers, U 552 was built before U 253, while U 99 was built before U 74 etc. They did something similar pre-war. They painted the big white number "26" on the tower U 35 rather than 35. This was done almost certainly on purpose to confuse other nations.

I think U 69 was the 9th VIIC launched. The first VIICs launched were - U 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 551, 552, and then U 69. 

Have you decided on a time period you are modelling U 69? This is necessary as different features were added at different times. You don't need an exact date or anything but if you can decide to depict on a certain patrol or even a rough time period then this helps regarding modifications and colour schemes.

Cheers,

Dougie

[TRM]

Thanks Pat & Geif!  She is certainly "Naked" leading to the riding high and fitting out.  For arguments sake I will go with her being the 69.  Might have to refer to Snowman's drawings to find out what lies beneath doors one and two...

Thanks Dougie!  As for the time line...using the modifications .pdf from the site,  I would say from 11/2/40 to possible inclusion of certain features (unknown)7/8/41...the end of the 3rd patrol.  With the lack of photographic analysis I could easily reside myself with this time period and claim she has all the amenities I would like to portray.  Next would be the color scheme...2 different patrols and possible "mandates" to changing her color mixed in there, maybe while out?  I have her launching color scheme and could go with colors referencing any of the boats you listed made before/around her? Will be looking through color changes 1st thing in the morning I guess.  I know the changed insignia for each Flotille, would they have changed colors as well?  MORE READING...the research part is just as fun!  Click, click, click...

Cheers!

[Pat]

Yes, towing makes sense also because there's no evidence of the props moving at the stern.

Another, less 'sinister' reason for boats to be launched out of number sequence is just that the numbers were assigned when the contract was let, but not all shipyards got the work completed in the same length of time of time, resulting in some boats being launched before boats with earlier numbers.

There are many reasons for the length of time on the ways changing from boat to boat and yard to yard, and the contracts would also be given out in blocks of certain numbers which would appear to jump for any given yard as other contracts were completed at different yards.

While deliberate misnumbering as in U-26/U-35 would make sense during peacetime when the large numbers were painted on the sides, it doesn't make much sense during wartime with no painted on numbers when nobody could tell the number of a boat without speaking directly to the crew anyway.

[TRM]

Certainly Plausible Pat.

On the "weather it is the 69 or not" I think I am going to go out on a limb make a call on on of the photographs attached below.  #1 is a pic of U-69.  There is no cooberation that I have found in my net searches...however, if you open #1 and #2.  Looking at #1 the two attached buildings to the imidiate right of the CT and to the left of what looks like a ganty tower, now look at picture #2, the two same building appear to be to the right of the CT on the launching photo of the documented U-69 photo.  I know that there were multiple ships produced by this shipyard but ALL of the hull openings on the side appear to be the exact same...unless it was a practice to keep all of the same openings present upon launching during a fitting???  I am finding the achor missing...if it was being towed, they definately would not be dredging a kedge anchor...if I stare at it a little longer I know I will find something else.

[dougie47]

Hi gents,

On first glance, the VIIC in photo 1 looks like a Krupp boat from the batches U 93 - U 98 or U 69 - U 72. The location is Kiel. Looking more closely I think it is U 69 since -

 - a few objects on the foredeck are identical to those evidenced in photos of U 69 before launch
 - there are a few open panels and open manhole inspection covers. These same panels are open on other photos of U 69

Photo 2 is definitely U 69 as the rope holding the anchor, and indeed the anchor itself, are in identical positions to other photos of U 69 before launch.

I'd recommend depicting U 69 at the end of patrol 3 in July 1941. Patrol 3 was off North Africa, with crewmen wearing alternate headwear on return. On the return the Horridoh and La Vache Qui Rit emblems were both present (although the words La Vache Qui Rit had been painted over at this specific time). There were many victory pennants flying at the end of patrol 3, and these can improve a model. The boat was weathered at this time, which would allow you a bit of fun in the weathering department.

Cheers,

Dougie

[TRM]

Thanks Dougie.  I like that idea of that time line.  It fits all the criteria that I was looking for.  Benn looking on and off today for information on North African exploits.  Not sure what the men were wearing but I will dig something up I'm sure.  Weathering is kind of a must for me.  I have seen a number with exceptional weathering.  It does give the fell of realism.

Cheers!