AMP - Accurate Model Parts
SEA => SUBS: Uboats => TYPE VII => Topic started by: kurt on 10 May , 2012, 08:59
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I received my Revell Type VIIC yesterday, its the new rerelease. So now is the research part. Of course, I dragged out Das Boot, to get in the mood. Still reading the builds in this forum. I have to get a scale figure to help direct the build. My hobby for many years was military miniatures, which I can't completely shake. I think it keeps an unconcious sense of scale in your mind as you model when you have one nearby overseeing things. This is going to be a real slow build due to other obligations. The personal challange for me will be to see it through to completion. Which brings to mind something that does drive me crazy. So many times I've read and really enjoyed following model builds in various forums that go on for so long and then just stop!
Any imput at all well be greatly appreciated. Please feel free to critize anything, I think I can take it. And the journey begins.
Kurt
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Kurt-
I like the idea of having figures around to oversee the work. I have several crew who are keeping me honest. If something does not look right to them, or they do not look right next to something it is time to do more research, or check my math.
Probably the first thing you should decide is if you are going to build a specific boat, or a generic one. Nothing wrong with either approach - for instance my current cut-away is a generic VIIC41 but I am using it to practice for a very specific future U-35.
If you pick a specific boat you can target specific details during a particular time and place.
Good luck! We look forward to pics.
Christopher
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Christopher, I particularly appreciate any advice you can give as an artist. About 30 years ago (I'm now 61) when I was heavy into painting 55mm military miniatures, I ran into an old gentleman by the name of Henri Leon (not sure of the spelling anymore) who was a star in that community. He was a retired New York theater set designer. His idea of modeling, which I totally buy into, was that you are creating an illusion. Sometimes things can be technically perfect and exact scale, but it don't look right! So I've always went with the feel of the subject. As far as building a specific boat, I'm torn. You can never get all the information you need and it bugs you. I kind of like making everything as being reasonably practical and a physicaly possibility. I may go with a generic and create a fictional number for her. Then the rivet counters can't nit pick. I have modeled to the painting stage and haven't used my air brush in more that 15 years. When it comes time, I will probably look into a new one. I used to paint in enamels and mostly oil paints for figure modeling. I may try acrylics, so that will take a lot of experimentation. It's gonna be fun (I hope).
Kurt
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Kurt
We shall be following your progress with interest. I don`t know your plans but guess your shall within short be busy with floodholes and may be canning. To my opinion very often canning is overdone particulary on the pressurehull. Don`t get carried away with the more than 60 years corrosion battering the Laboe U 995. The average VIIC had a short life and canning was not distingtive. the floodholes on the other hand were the fingerprints of the various boats so make your choice prior to the drilling. Many modeller are hooked up by the present U 995, unfortunately she is not maintained in such a way that every detail should be copied.
Good luck!
Tore
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From what I gather the canning was more noticable on the American boats the German, and I think a lot of people used the American boats as examples. I prefer being subtle (not in my personal actions) and suggestive (artistically speaking) when it comes to that kind of thing. From a distance and scale viewing much of those things aren't that intense. (Don't I sound edumacted ...)
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I found that much of my semi intense il canning was muted y paint. Another idea is to shade instead, though many seem to go backwards with the two colours: the ribs should be light and the "panels" between dark (concave). I've seen oil canning on the QEII in real life, and on all sorts of ships. Many think it's wave pounding, but it's mostly just expansion/contraction and an imperfect sheet welded (or riveted) to ribs.
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My detachment of Uboaters (from CMK) to oversee this project arrived today. I am waiting on a copy of Vom Original zum Modell, Uboottyp VII C to arrive along with PE from Modelbrass and WEM. Reading Das Boot again and just generally preparing to start this project. Still don't have a clue which particular boat to model. Next payday I'll start accumulating more materials. Slowly reading all the treads on this forum. Anyone have any opinions about the UBOOT im focus series?
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As far as Uboat Im Focus goes, they are simply wonderful books to hold in your hand. Quite well printed, including hi resolution images. Not a sloucher-zine!
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I guess I'll have to try and figure which volumes would be most appropiate with regards to the im Focus series and my project. Naturally, ( I actually expected it) both the Modelbrass and WEM sets are backordered, so that will probably delay construction. I had figured that as my starting point.
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Got an email from WEM, their set should go out in about a week, so I guess I have to start picking a boat. I might take the easy way and build (another!) 552. The gurus have worked out the major kinks and the research is there. Alot of this build for me is to see it to completion, not being unique. And I don't have and 552 kicking around my house so it would be original in that sense.
Kurt
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Kurt.
You seems to go for one of the longest lived VIICs of WW2 and as she was a 39 design I presume you have checked she fits in to your Revell kit. ( No 41 version,Atlantic bow or wintergarden flare on the casing) like the 05045 kit.
Tore
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I guess now I will have to spend some time researching 552's personal history and Erich Topp's. I did a quick search to see if Topp had a published biography, but I didn't find anything. I probably should go through the various builds here and make a formal of list the changes I need to make. Then plan any aftermarket I want to get. If anyone here wished they had done something different on their various builds, I'd like to hear from them!
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I believe U 552 kept the original design pretty much the same during the war. The only visible change could be the removal of the net cutter and the tower winddeflector you`ll see the old and new version on the pictures below, I believe may be she got the new winddeflector end 42 primo 43. I guess no radarcasing, no snort or deckcontainers. I don`t know the new releasekit you got from Revell but would recommend to check that it matches the early design of a VIIC. It would save you a lot of work if it does. As a final picture I show you the end of U 552 as you see she is pretty much the same.
Tore
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I guess my build has officially began today. I started to plug up the bow floods in anticipation of drilling the corrected ones. This is going to be a slow project due to carelessly made prior commitments to family and work. I never could get priorities straight.
Kurt
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Waiting for the ModelBrass PE (I understand that can take a long time) and the WEM PE (supposedly not that long) to correct the flood holes. Should receive the Eduards set today and Robert Schatton's periscopes, etc. are also on the way. Should the interior of the hull in the areas exposed by the flood holes, etc. be black or a very dark redbrown like traditional auto primer?
Kurt
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I would suggest black
Tore
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Received my 88 barrel and periscopes from Schatton-Modellbau, very nice. Just got a copy of the Kagero 3D book for the type VII, it's a very nice book that ties the entire subject together very well. Still no PE to work on those darn holes!! That's okay in a way, because I don't have the time at the moment to work on the boat. Still.....
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Today my PE from ModelBrass came, it was worth the wait, now I the WEM set comes I be ready to roll. I don't want to start with the bottom holes, because it looks like it would be to delicate to be handling while working on the upper areas.
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Here a little known fact about the sky periscope. The top of all new sky periscopes were white! Almost U-boat Captains would have them painted light gray before going to sea.
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Simon, interesting and new to me. I really don`t understand the reason for white sky periscope. Mostly the colours of the top was various shades of grey, like on the picture below, I think most of the colours were darker than on this picture though, but I believe it depended very much upon in which aereas you were operating.. We carried out some tests and figured out that dull dark grey, almost black with a shade of dark green was the optimal for the water we were operating. But I guess it was the wake of the pericope which probably was the worst problem.
Tore
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Periscope colours.
An interesting instruction as to the colours of the periscope can be found in The Submarine Commander`s Handbook ( U.Kdt.Hdb) of 1943 issued by the German High Command reading as follows : "125..32. For the colour of the periscope, a dirty grey such as is used for the body of the submarine itself should be chosen, as this colour is the least to detect in all conditions of ligth. Green paint, or stripes or checkered pattern are very conspicuous in a poor ligth."
Tore
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Today I received a pair of beautiful brass props made for me by Keith Bender of Propmeup. He made them up from a set of blueprints of the real boat. I will try pickling them to resemble bronze. Wish the pesky WEM PE would come, GRRRRRRR.
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Propellors.
The VIICs propellors were made of different materials, I believe the early versions were all of cast bronze whereas the later versions were cast steel. I don`t know excactly when they changed, but all our VIICs ( end 1942 and later) had cast steel and weren`t shiny at all. An easy mistake as to the fitting of the propellers is the direction of the revolution, the ahead revolutions for both is outwards seen at the top, which means seen towards aft clockwise for the port and anticlockwise for stb.
Tore
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I located a CMK Turret set on the internet so I'm waiting on that. Still waiting on the WEM PE set for the flood holes, etc. They just billed me so that means they're on their way across the pond so hopefully it won't be long!!
Kurt
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The CMK is good. And the WEM flood/vent set SUPERB!!!
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Wink, your modesty is amazing, superb doesn't begin to describe...... Finally received both WEM set, including the superb one by what's their names? I guess I will have to start to drill and scrape, and scrape and drill soon.
Kurt
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oh ya, I'm biased... ;D
Yes, drilling and scraping...fun fun fun!