AMP - Accurate Model Parts
SEA => SUBS: Uboats => TYPE VII => Topic started by: sedgar2 on 03 Feb , 2011, 10:04
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Greeting, Fresh Fish here! I am beginning the 1/72 Revell kit. I have been getting accessories together and tools and so on to do a nice job on this model They are becoming scarce. My question is the technique used to simulate the sag or "oil can effect" between the ribs in the outer hull and saddle tanks. I won't be modeling any particular boat and will only go so far off the reservation as I feel comfortable with. Before i take a knife and ruin the hull, thought I would seek some detailed guidance. Thanks and there are some amazing craftmen/women here, Thanks in advance, please feel free to email me, sedgar2
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WELCOME, SEDGAR2..
CHECK THIS OUT...
http://u-552.blogspot.com/2008_01_01_archive.html
AND
http://www.travel-net.com/~gcauley/U625/
BILL ...
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OK I see the results but is there a description of the process before I take weapon in hand? Sand with Dremel tool or gouge with knife, or something I've not hit on yet?
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There are some pics on page one from my topic: http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=443.0
I did it with a round scalpel, and afterwards i sanded the panels by hand to smooth things out.
Karel
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Thank you for the reply, Looking at your progress, many of my other questions have been answered, some even before I came up with them. Very nice work! Side-tracked me a whole hour looking at the thread....
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Hope it helps, #10 scalpel blade, slowly work away till you get a desired depth. Finish up with some light sanding.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_FaFEYk1xjY8/TI0rxZsFwwI/AAAAAAAAAN4/FQABN9Ly5Oc/DSC01213.JPG)
Takes a little while but the material scrapes down pretty easy. If you are not intending to replace the rivet, just take extra care. It may take you a little longer but there is never a rush and the results are certainly worth the effort. ;D Good luck
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I went through heaps of #10 curved x-acto blades. You MUST use SHARP! You want to avoid "chatter". The blades are cheap, and just because they are not sharp enough for scraping doesn't mean they have to be thrown away. It's difficult to scrape away just enough - you probably have to do slightly more than you think, because when painted, some of the effect is lost. But too deep and it looks silly Blending to the "rib" part is key, nice and smooth and soft. TRM and FoxbaT have it!
Some finished pix:
http://www.rokket.biz/models/modelsweb/rokket/u557/finished.shtml (http://www.rokket.biz/models/modelsweb/rokket/u557/finished.shtml)
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TRM, Thats what I needed to see, Thanks
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Glad the pic helps. Wink is correct, pick up a fresh package of #10's, once you get started you will see when they start to chatter, just change it out for a new one. Don't throw them away, they are still great for a multitude of other cutting. Karel's sanding method works well too. You may want to work both depending where on the boat. One final note...If you already opened the long drainage vent above the saddle tank, you may want glue some bits of styrene to keep it from bending too much. I broke one side and decided to cut the other off(made more room for other things anyway). Best thing would be to do the oil canning before you open it. ::) Just remember....ANYTHING can be fixed! Trust me, I break crap all the time :P
Get some pics up, would love to watch the build!
Cheers!
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Yes i like to see a topic of your build too ;)
Karel
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I'll post some pics, but I don't think I can come close to some of the boats seen here......
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Id like to know how you managed to sand the panels after scraping with a knife. :-\ I cant seem to do it without sanding the rivets off >:( I have tried getting as small a piece of sandpaper as possible but its still difficult.
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A womans "Finger Nail File" works pretty good. They're flexible, the right width,
and long enough to handle. Usually they're made with a coarse and smooth side.
a handy trick is to rub two of them together. This will knock down some of
the sharpness that tends to leave marks...
Cheers/ Bill
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Nice one Bill, I`ll try that ;)
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Ahoy Sedgor2,
I am currently Oil Canning my 1/72 Boot, and I have found that a light touch using my Exacto Knife, with a #10 Blade is working very well. While scraping between each rib, keep your eye on exactly where the blade is cutting (i.e. in the center of the ribs.....to the left near the rivets.....to the right near the rivets...and so on) and make the proper adjustment to stay more or less in the center of both lines of rivets. Light passes with the knife will take it down a little at a time, however you have more accuracy with the knife, and won't "kill" rivet heads as easily as when using harder pressure, and Oil Canning with light pressure won't make your fingers and hands go numb from "repetitive movement syndrome." Good Luck Mate.
Romain
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It helps t make thin strips of masking tape and cover the rivets, too. But you definitely have to "blend" once you remove the tape, so the profile goes up to the rivets without being too sharp. this is where the freehand works well, as Romain says, and where the nail file works, as Bill said. I like the flexible ones, they are very cool and usually have 4 grades: Coarse (very), light blue Medium, other side Fine Pink, Finer light pink. Bill's suggestion is excellent, i find a fresh file can be harsh.
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After much "oil canning" today, I feel that I would like to make some suggestions. I recommend taking a "Dexter-esque" approach to containing the multitude of shavings, which will strive to get EVERYWHERE! >:( (ie. make sure you have polythene sheets or paper to catch the mess, unless of course you have a dedicated area to build in, which only requires a brush) Secondly, it might be an idea to try the sans clothing method :-[, as these shavings take on an almost magical adhesion, which will affix to your clothes. When brushed off, these shavings will merely float onto another part of your clothes, mocking your pathetic attempts to rid yourself of their grip. When you finally give up,and leave them on, they decide to leave their host and take up new residence in your carpets and furniture. >:(
In summing up, if you want to argue with your girlfriend or wife. Oil can away! ;D
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Yeah, I do a good brush down, but that plastic is very static-ky, and clings! I am banned from entering house or getting hugs until I am de-contaminated from the shavings and "bits".
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Im just about finished one half of the hull ;D Just got to do the other side now :-\ On the whole, I have been successful, but I might have to invest in the Archer rivet set. Can anyone tell me if this is worth it? Is there a particular set I have to buy for 1.72, or are they mixed?
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Yes the Archer transfers are expensive, but they are worth the money.
This is the set you need: http://www.archertransfers.com/AR88023.html
Karel
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Thanks Karel, I think I will have to get me one of those sheets as one or two rivet lines have been lost where I have gone too far with my scalpel!
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I think i need also few lines of rivets... I
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Anakin - this WORKS! We have been thinking of releasing a PE rivet template of a few diff sizes and patterns, suitable for a few scales and many projects, designed to be used with putty, along with a weld seam pattern (probably three thicknesses).
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We have been thinking of releasing a PE rivet template of a few diff sizes and patterns, suitable for a few scales and many projects, designed to be used with putty, along with a weld seam pattern (probably three thicknesses).
Good idea! This could be used in tanks, trains etc... Not only in ships and boats. I
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Whens these fabled PE sets coming out Wink? Im desperate for the lower flood holes. Then again I seen this and was blown away :P I mean this kit is 1.144 and look at the detail of the flood hole openings!!!
http://www.u-modelismo.com/foromodelismonaval/index.php?topic=1340.0
After seeing that I dont know what to do. I have micro drill bits but cant see how to smooth out such tiny holes. My needle files are way too big even for the lower floods and torpedo door holes in the 1.72 kit!
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I guess it
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he's done great, especially as you say, in 1:144
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And did you see what he did with the plastic deck? I was in awe! That is real micro surgery where one slip means certain death for the kit :o I feel like hanging up my airbrush and taking up knitting!
Nah, I will persevere and most likely wreck umpteen 1.144 kits in my unending quest to reach the giddy heights of the top modellers :'(
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Is Modelbrass the only company currently doing the lower flood holes in PE ? I paid for a set months ago and Im still waiting. :( I dont trust myself with such tiny holes as the plastic is very thin, in between the slots :-\
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Griffon makes some PE sets for revell viic and 41 in 1/144 scale but i
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Cheers Anakin, forgot to say, its 1.72 I am looking for although I wouldnt mind trying it out on a 1.144 too ;)
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Oh i missed something... :P But hey it
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Thanks for that Anakin, didnt know you could get smaller scalpels.` Beaver scalpels` is the name. Thats the answer to getting tiny incisions and will surely make clearing out flood holes easier ;)
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You can also search eBay for vet and dental scalpels...
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I saw one great tool to sand, simply using a clip that is used to hang clothes to dry and use it as a sanding tool. Using the metal to hold the sanding paper in place, it is a great sanding stick. I will see if I can find some pics of it.
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Interesting! am eager to see!! Thank you
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A few remarks on canning.
Canning occur for several reasons like pressure difference between the exposed thin plating, riveted or welded to the frames, seabattering and weldingstresses during construction. In addition the hull gets dents during maneuvering, accidents by wrong blowing (positive dents) and depthcharging. The extent of dents and canning depend on the lifetime and operational history of the relevant submarine. Normally the VIIC was not very susceptible to canning as the light superstructure and casing was riveted thus no welding stresses. The saddletanks have a large section which is pressureproof see my image below, were the casing has virtually no canning and only the non pressureproof section the fueloil/ballasttanks 2 and 4 have typical maneuvering dents. The upper image is of the U 995 having done her service some 20 years which is possibly more than 4 times the normal war lifetime of a VIIC. I believe the average canning and pressurehull corrosion marks which are applied by some modelbuilders are overdone. Don't copy the museum U-995 the casing is restored by welding the casing plates which have weldingstresses and the pressurehull has an excessive corrosion by being laid up without antifouling or maintenance for several years, In this condition she would not be approved for service.
The lower photo is of the U_995 in Trondheim May 1945 after she had been in quite rough service in Arctic waters for almost 2 years pretty much a average wartime service for a VIIC. By looking at the casing and saddletanks you`ll hardly see any dents or canning.
I clearly see the fun of canning and weathering, but if the aim is an accurate model one should behave.
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I found the picture of the tool here:
http://blog.nicnilov.com/2013/12/u-boat-type-vii-c-172-build-log-part-four/
Thank you Tore for the insights, I have seen several different images of lesser canning.
I am trying this canning effect, and it sure is driving me nuts!
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Thank you for the link Roel, very interesting use of a clothespin for the oil canning (as you may have read type VII models don't need much oil canning effect). Also, a magnificent website
Thank you again!
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You are welcome!
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My favorite tool for oil canning, homemade idea, put the dremel head in a knife holder:)
It can also be used for other purposes, like opening up torpedo tubes in resin, gives a nice extra effect!
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Here are examples of opened up tubes using this tool:)
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The lower photo is of the U_995 in Trondheim May 1945 after she had been in quite rough service in Arctic waters for almost 2 years pretty much a average wartime service for a VIIC. By looking at the casing and saddletanks you`ll hardly see any dents or canning.
Hi Tore,
The pictures in your above post no longer display correctly.
Can you re-post your picture?
Thanks,
Steve