VIIC "On the Ways"

[tore]

Christopher
Converting army uniforms to the correct uniforms of the U-Boat personell is not an easy task. I`m not a specialist on the subject, but we used (unofficially) the german uboat leatheruniforms in my time. I never wore the trousers but sometime the jacket which was long, doublebreasted,4 buttons  and with high collar ( I didn`t like it.) I`m posting a picture of the jacket and the german tankleather uniform to show the difference. The uboat ratings had a shorter leatherjacket as far as I remember. Another peculiar custom in the U boot Waffe was that the CO always wore a white cap even in wintertime, if you have seen das Boot you probably remember. So if you are dressing one of your crewmember as the CO remember the white cap. Uniforms were seldom used inside the boat at seapatrol, a wide mixture of fantastic garment were used, partly civilian ( as my pink pyjamas).
Tore

[SG]

Tore am sorry not to completely agree with you, but the single breasted leather jacket existed and was popular w u-boat crews. The double-breasted "reefer style" leather jacket w wider collar and normal lapels was intended to be used by deck or bridge personnel and was particularly favoured by officers and warrant officers. The single-breasted leather jacket was meant mainly for engine room personnel use and was produced in black, dark brown and pale grey colors, but as you said there were a number of different combinations of clothing coexisting in a U-boat. Am not a uniform expert but there's photographic evidence of the single-breasted leather jacket being used by U-boat crewmembers. SS tankers (from 12th SS mainly, but they were not the only ones) were issued leather U-boat gear in 1944, together with leather submariners gear from italian navy stocks coming in german possession after the italian armistice of 1943. Found a few pictures of u-boote crewmembers wearing the single-breasted jacket which is similar, if not identical, to the one sported by the Alpine and VP figures. So, no big conversion is requred (apart from sanding off the waist belt and reshape the waist area)..if Christopher is tempted from the idea of using the figures i suggested of course!    
 
 Artworks by Darko Pavlovic from Gordon Williamson's "Wolf Pack", note the difference between the single- breasted jacket and the double-breasted leather coat

 



 U-26 crewmembers loading a torpedo

 
An Inspector wearing a single breasted black leather jacket

 

 Right: U-67 crewmember, left: U-boat commander in England, 1945.
 Artwork from Mollo/Mc Gregor's "Naval, Marine and Air Force uniforms of WW2"

[tore]

SG
Exellent pictures of a wide selection of Uboat uniforms and thanks for your interesting info on the german uniforms. I remember now the short singlebreasted jackets for the ratings. Again, I`m not at all very conversant with this subject and the way the germans used their uniforms. I guess there migth be a difference as to the time and geographical aerea where the uboats operated, we took over the german stocks in Norway which contained mainly grey uniforms used in the artic waters and we didn`t have any codex for the use, it was of course not an approved part of our uniform. We discarded the uniforms in the end, they were bulky,heavy, uncomfortable and filled up the narrow wardrobeclosets. The more I get involved in the modelbuilding and drawing of the VIICs, the more I realize the importance to pick the timeperiode and the operational area of the boat you select, you have so many executions, but that makes it interesting.
Tore

[TopherVIIC]

Gentlemen,
Thank you all for the input. I know I will have some work to do to convert the figures, but I specifically chose ones without the y and the combat harness typically worn by ground forces. It will be a simple matter to make long trousers, and i have seen versions of the double breasted tanker style blouse as well as captured and converted British field blouses.

I am mainly going to portray torpedoroom ratings in my cramped little bow room, along with Herr kapit

[TopherVIIC]

SG,
I plan on doing the complete U35 in cut-away (if you pardon the pun) as she was in drydock after Graf Spee cut her to shreds. I will do the conning tower then. U35 is a type A, so it will have differences from my practice boat I am working on now. Different time period and different type of boat.

I may have to build a practice turm or two between now and then. But I vow one day U35 (the poor thing) will live again!

[SG]

Tore, I agree 100% with what you say about the importance of chosing boat and time period. And, THANKS again n again for sharing the infos about those german leather gear, which as far as i I can see hundred of times in pics I will never have the chance too feel/see/wear in real life. Your experience reports add that "living feel" to what I read about u-boats, and that's fantastic. Without you how would i know how unconfy and space-consuming those leather uniforms were? No book would ever tell me. My knowledge on u-boots is purely academic (i.e. what i read in books), yours is real life/1st hand experience.
A constant thank you for all your contributions on this forum, we're lucky u're with us!
 
Christopher: good luck w converting the figures, am sure you'll do an excellent work, and am looking forward to see the wip pics of the conversion soon. Keep up the U-35 project, it sounds a promising, billiant idea!
 

[tore]

SG
Don`t underestimate the researchwork you guys are doing. I`m impressed of the knowledge you all have and the interest you show in the subject. In my active time we didn`t have this historic knowledge, no books were written as yet and no communication with the germans exsisted, we had to develope our own way to operate the boats and our only goal was to get the thing run satisfactorly. As one of the probably last officers alive who served onboard a VIIC as a"frontline sub"  I would be happy if I could contribute to add personal experience and feelings to the "academic facts" thereby to give "meat to the bones" to coming VIICs enthusiasts. I have great fun to be involved.
Tore

[TopherVIIC]

I am impressed with Tore's memory of his ship after all these years. I was a US Marine and spent a dozen days abord a Tarawa class Amphibius Assault Ship, USS Peleliu.  That was 1989.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Peleliu_(LHA-5)

I remember loading her up, I remember why flat bottom ships need to have engines running, and I disembarked her. The coffee was not bad, and the Regular Navy treated the Marines like Cargo. Other than basic layout, I could not tell you much more details than that.

[TopherVIIC]

Here is some progress.
You can tell a work in progress - especially mine!
I have ripped out half of my casing to get it to work with the other half of the casing...
You can also see the white evergreen "L" girders I am laying in on the Sbd side. As you can see, I have added the floods on the Bb side.
I believe I will go in soon and put in the watertight bow tank, and the framing and skin for the extreme forward part of the ship soon.
It is looking somewhat naked.





Shot of interior from D.Spt 63, looking forward. It is funny how some crew members can sleep even with all the construction going on!
You can see the bunks with very tiny springs. The clear tube is a test piece I am going to use to make molds for my emergency deck containers.
That part is far from being finished!
As you can see, I still need to add the torpedo loading hatch and framework for it as well as the end of the schnorkelwell.




Yes, that is a GIANT KITTY in the shipyards of France. Verdampt Allies!
The red control rod for the forward dive planes is just a temporary fit, as is the deck and Bb bulkhead. They will go in solid once I attach the druckk

[tore]

Christopher
Can`t stop beeing amazed by your work. I see you have chosen 3 deckcontainers, which is as our KNM Kya ex U 926. Looking at your clear test tube for molding the containers don`t you think it should be a fraction deeper , see posted drawing. Don`t get rid of the Swartze Katz a number of U boats used that in their crests, it brings luck!
Tore

[TopherVIIC]

Tore - I need to put a bottom on the emergency container, but from dead Starboard, it is the right height. Just like in the drawings. The top will get worked as well - (top is too high) I just was using it for the diameter and angle. If I put that Schwarze Katz on my turm, it would crush her! The cat is still laying by the boat... It is very hot and humid today.

https://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/521325_438196426213836_381867187_n.jpg
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/283637_438197052880440_1789368133_n.jpg

:-)

[tore]

Christopher, you have everything under control. Sometimes it is nice to have documentation that your work is correct, I`m mailing a couple of pictures showing Uboats having 3 deckcontainers, KNM Kya ex U 926 a VIIC and U 1023 a VIIC/41.
Tore

[SG]

G R E A T    W O R K     C H R I S T O P H E R  ! ! !

[TopherVIIC]

I left room forward a bit of my containers by two frames. That way i coud add or not as needed

[tore]

Christopher
Sometimes ago somebody wondered where the gangway was stowed in the casing. I just got hold of a picture showing the gangway stowed and it is just in the area you are building as you can see on the photo below.
Tore