[WIP] Double Type XXIII build (ICM and Trumpeter, both 1/144)

[conus00]

That's a new one for me, too.

[rabapla]

one of my employees will scan the stuff today, I wrote some remarks in english on the plan views/sketches in "vom original zum modell", which has excellent detail plans of the bridge. don't know if I can post them here due to copyright issues............?

now that I've looked at all my sources new questions arise:
the pictures of 2330 and 2360 (see above) hanging from a crane clearly show some interesting painting: middle grey over all and just a thin dark-grey/ black cheat line. but some authorities have stated in the past that there was no cheat line.....................dougie, what's Your impression?
 
sincerely

ralf

[rabapla]

posting the pics is not that easy.....2. try

these are all pictures of U 2360 (from that excellent "U-Boot in Fokus" which one should subscribe to: excellent material, always new. and half german, half english.)
I think we see pretty clear the opening of the semi- closed bridge and how high the top is: in fact it is higher than the deck aft (notice the "step" in the picture no.3-1!!) interesting is the socket for the

[rabapla]

the uppermost image shows the lonely black cheat line on U 2330 clearly. and both show the straight front of the CT, everything else would be a misinterpretation.
please note the differences regarding flood holes and possibly the railing on the CTs....................

[rabapla]

will post the plan views as soon as the upload folder is open again.............

[dougie47]

Hi Ralf,

I don't have the Vom original book for the XXIII and cannot make too many details out from the posted photo of U 2330.

But I do have Uboot Im Focus 2, with the excellent high quality image of U 2330 on page 15. This photo shows U 2330 with a medium grey upper hull and tower, a dark grey lower hull, and no bootline. There is definitely no bootline in this photo. U 2323 alos looks to be painted similarly.

I'm assuming that the Vom Original photo of U 2330 was taken on the same day as the photo of U 2330 in U-im-F 2? They both show the boat being lowered into Slipway 4 at Germaniawerft don't they?

Cheers,

Dougie

[conus00]

Ralf,
great pictures! Thanks a lot (I just wish that they were scanned at higher resolution, but beggars can't be choosers ). They make me want to get all the U-boot Im Focus publications (too bad that No.1 is out of print now ). I am looking forward to the additional bridge plans. My Special Navy 1:72 Type XXIII got back ordered but should be arriving just before Christmas...

Anyway, back to my build(s):
All the posted pictures threw a HUGE wrench in my plans for building U-2360. Clearly what I have done so far (in regards of the shape of the CT) is totally wrong so it is time to re-think how to proceed with it.
I would hate to loose all the work I have done on the interior of the CT but (being a stickler for historical accuracy) I don't want to build a boat in configuration in which it didn't exist. So after a long thinking, here's how I am going to solve my predicament:
I have gone through my archive of pictures (and books) in order to find the best picture of the CT of type XXIII and found these two pictures of U-2321:


Would you mind translating for me the captioning?

I will try to salvage what I have created so far so here is how I plan to "cut-and-paste":

It is great that Trumpeter's kit provides three different sail configurations so I'm gonna cut the spare one to pieces
The purple marked areas are going to be filed down and filled with putty, the green ones are going to get transplanted/scratch-built.
I really hate to do so much cutting to the model at this stage but I do not have an option.
Cross your fingers!

Also, I have an impression that the rungs are actually semi-circle shaped on a top of a small oval depression instead of the "regular" rectangular ones, right?

As far as colors go I'm not sure about the black cheat-line (according to my archive I yet have to see one showing clearly the black bootline)
The top picture of U-2321 clearly shows no line so I'm gonna stick with Dunkelgrau 51 (Humbrol 145) and Shiffsbodenfarbe 111 Grau (Humbrol 123) with no bootline.

[rabapla]

But I do have Uboot Im Focus 2, with the excellent high quality image of U 2330 on page 15. This photo shows U 2330 with a medium grey upper hull and tower, a dark grey lower hull, and no bootline. There is definitely no bootline in this photo. U 2323 alos looks to be painted similarly.
I'm assuming that the Vom Original photo of U 2330 was taken on the same day as the photo of U 2330 in U-im-F 2? They both show the boat being lowered into Slipway 4 at Germaniawerft don't they?

exactly those pictures are posted above..........maybe my impression of a boot line at the bow came from the space above the torpedo shutter, giving the impression of a stripe............?

@conus00:
why so complicated? in post nr. 17 You#ve shown the CT Mod.557........maybe You use the whole "roof": just cut a hole in it from behind the

[rabapla]

the caption reads:

"U 2321 during acceptance trials docked in Holmwerft Danzig.
flood holes are sealed by welding to evaluate their effect on underwater speed.

a lot of flood holes were cut into the outer skin to speed up diving time. by reducing flood holes by 70% the max. underwater speed increased from 11,2 to 11,6 knots, the extremely short crash diving time (static 21 sec., dynamic 14 sec.) only increased marginal.

at the front of the CT is the sealing cap for the rubber dinghy, the only rescue device those boats had. it's responsible for a relevant part of the underwater resistance."

sincerely

ralf

[rabapla]

trying to post the plan views with additions:

I think the most interesting are "Plan 11" and "Plan 12": below the position light bay is a rectangular thing, the locker. at the front from top to bottom

[conus00]

why so complicated? in post nr. 17 You#ve shown the CT Mod.557........maybe You use the whole "roof": just cut a hole in it from behind the

[rabapla]

so........

the closed CT You have is perfect, except the "step": my fault, I was meaning "slant"(or slope or bevel or chamfer.......don't know). If You look at the photo taken from behind of U 2360 You see the slope. at the model with the closed CT the slopeis slightly to much forward: the upper ridge is at the same level as the front of the periscope socket.
there is no other step. the photo taken from the front on commissioning and the one taken at the quay from behind show all You need and are proof enough for me. (I can only guess that the crane- photo shows U 2360 after part of the aft upper CT casing was taken off, I even think that one can see the sky through one of those 3 big round flood holes....)
and the opening? not a circle, it seems to be a U with the  bow to the front. the width? educated guessing necessary........look at the antenna behind the back of Oblt. z. S. Schrobach in Photo 21. shoulder- width, I guess.

and close that space under the position lights bay!

due to business problems I can't scan too soon, I'm afraid. will do my best.

but...close that space under the position light bay, put the CT- roof with the slope slightly back to the periscope base and cut out that U-shape, paint yellow stripes on the exhaust casing, the CT and the bow and You have U 2360!!

should I use my alanger or my special navy typ XXIII to buil U 2360.............. ?

[conus00]

Work in my shipyards have been temporarily halted (too busy in my two jobs) but will continue in next few days....
In the meantime here's another new (for me) picture of U-Hai

should I use my alanger or my special navy typ XXIII to buil U 2360.............. ?

If you have both, I'd suggest to turn Alanger into U-2360. By reading all the reviews I'm assuming that the Special Navy is better quality kit and better detailed.
In order to build U-2360 the kit will have to be extensively modified (lots of cutting, puttying and sanding - all risks of damaging details). Also if your build goes belly up and you have to buy another kit, the Alanger is much cheaper to replace.

[conus00]

I've made quite bit of a progress on U-2360 today. Will take some pictures and post them tomorrow.
I have one question, though: did U-2360 have wooden "deck"? I'm not sure about it because I have read somewhere that towards the end of the war Germans were running low on materials (including teak wood used for the planking).

[rabapla]

first: love the "belly up"- picture................especially when talking about u- boats
second: the "crane photo" leaves me with the impression that U- 2360 did't have that wooden catwalk. wasn't it there just on early boats?
third: don't know when my plans will reach You (christmas overwork for the mail service, CIA wondering what these plans are about and such), but You should wait for them when it comes to CT- detailling

all the best

ralf