U-1299 typeVIIC/41 : the draft in 1/144

[Pepper-mint]

Thanks.

I think that once painted in grey, the white rods will appear thinner... Anyway it's a draft, now i know that
i can scratch build the wintergarten rails :



...

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[NZSnowman]

The wintergarten looks great!

When I was working on U-1308 wintergarten, I looked at all the Turm 5 style to see what was common. The only thing I find that was common for all Turm 5 style was they were all different E.g. How the were rail was attach to deck or bridge; the spacing; the overhead outline of the Turm 5; the netting; the space of the inter-small railing; the Aft Nav. light etc

[Pat]

Beautifil work Pepper-mint.

It will be interesting if your prediction comes true about the appearance after the painting.  Can't wait to see it.

[Rokket]

NZ - that's the thing about subs, "identical" ones are so different!

[Pat]

That actually seems to apply to all sorts of boats.  Painting aside, I've seldom if ever seen two of anything identical, except maybe some small craft like Lasers or runabouts.

Unlike a car, it takes so long to build a boat that what was in stock when the first keel was laid isn't when the next keel is laid, and during the production of several hulls, there are always changes in what sorts of hardware and fittings are available, or even changes in the plans itself as the first hull undergoes sea trials and they find that something can be improved upon.

My own came out of the water for the winter yesterday, and I was reminded of the changes in the colour of the propellor whether it's wet or dry.  The bronze is brown when wet, but pale green with a brassy tinge when dry.  The antifouling is almost exactly the same colour as a U-boat when dry but changed colour near the waterline where the algae took hold (until it was washed off).

[LE BOSCO]

A little WIP...

evergreen or revell ?

Hi Pepper-mint

The Plastruct brand offers a much lower diameter that Evergreenn,the diameters go to the ,0.3mm,0.15mm,0.5mm,0.6mm,0.8mm,1.1mm it is the finest I know
it may be worth a try,if you want more information send me a PM
but, your work is very beautiful seen the scale
Nicolas

[Pepper-mint]

Hello Gents,

Thanks for all the info, it confirm what i found. @ Le Bosco : merci l'ami !

While i was looking for wintergarten rail plans, i noticed that every "Turm 5" had her own "style" ; confirmed by the B/W photos i have. I built the one who seem to be the most "efficient" in my opinion.

In a way it fits perfectly to the building of U-1299 : i can collect the best technical results (but logical) that we can find on the VIIC/41's.

Question : Did a u-boat Kpt. had any influence on the technical evolutions for his boat ? After a long war patrol experience ?

I also searched (and found) pictures from up to 1939 anchors and housings,  beautiful pics !!! They all seem to have the same "housing pipe" with a lip (like a chicken a**hole)...    :



-----------------

By the way :
For the U-1299 story, the Commander :

Klaus Von EISENHEIM
Born on 19 sep. 1911 in Frankfurt am Main.
Kapit

[Pat]

I think that's probably the case for anchors Pepper.  Unlike the other fittings that boats use (cleats, winches, bollards, etc) there are few different designs for anchors.  Sailors are VERY particular about the anchors they use because their life may depend on how well it holds during a storm, and as a result, there's been a lot of testing over the centuries and only a very few designs were found acceptable.

Anchors are one of the few things on a boat/ship that I expect to seem almost the same on each one.

Almost all naval boats and ships use what's called a 'navy stockless anchor' which is very heavy but stows well without taking up much room.  If you look, you;ll see the U-boat anchors are almost the same as the battleship anchors, just smaller.  And the anchors on a British or American or even Japanese vessel should be nearly identical.

BTW, id you want to make your U-boat anchor more realistic, cut the shaft off and either make a new shaft yourself out of brass or plastic, or try to save what you can of the original.  Hollow out the space in the base between the flukes so that the end of the shaft can fit into AND pivot back and forth, front to back.

Take a small brass wire, the size that you have a drill bit for, and drill sideways in the base from one fluke to the other, making sure that the drill passes through the hollow that you made in the base.  If necessary, expand the hollow so that the drill passes through it with enough room to s so that there's a space all around the drill bit.

Then drill a hole through the end of the shaft so that the brass wire can fit through the base AND the end of the shaft when it's in the hollow. 

Assemble the three parts together and now you have a navy stockless anchor that actually moves like the real one.

[Pepper-mint]

Pat thank you for giving from your time and experience ! I'll do the anchor like you said.

My source : U-505 anchor   >  fits 100% with your building technique.  



and for more info :
An anchor where we can see the hole in the base.



 

[NZSnowman]

Question : Did a u-boat Kpt. had any influence on the technical evolutions for his boat ? After a long war patrol experience ?

Laurent, as for the newer sensors like for FuMB (radar-detector) & FuMO (radar), from what I have read in books so far, the captain have little influence on the direction the technical evolutions on his boat. Like all U-boat captains they always wanted the newer sensors. However, there was always a shortage of these new sensors and it seen in the books I have read that it was

[Greif]

Beautiful work on the Wintergarten.  And an excellent job on the steps and railings. 

Ernest

[johnd]

Great work with the plastic rods. Would you mind doing a small tutorial on how you formed and installed the railing? Some would prefer to work in plastic than brass.

Thanks,
John Doherty

[Pat]

Simon, what you say about the new tech for the U-boats makes sense, that it wouldn't be up to the captain but assigned to the boat, but that if he particularly wanted something, he could possibly get bumped up in the list if he had the right connections.

The only other thing I have to add to that is that I've read that just because OKW assigned some new tech to a boat, doesn't mean that the skipper had to use it.  This was the case with many of the rader sets, that the U-boat skippers thought that the Allies were able to detect German radar wavelengths and could home in on the sets when in operation, and they didn't believe the high command when they said that the frequencies couldn't be detected by the Allies, so while the radar was installed, they didn't use it much.

Armament possibly could be installed as captain's choice, exactly as you said.  Heck, the Allies did that too. 

PT boats out in the Pacific often had all sort of non-standard armament, such as several bazookas strapped together on a MG base, aircraft machine gun systems mounted on the foredeck (they particularly liked the MG out of Aircobras since the planes were often written off), and at least one rocket launching system I know of.  One of the most well known is that Kennedy's PT-109 had a 37mm anti-tank gun mounted on the foredeck, they just took the wheels off and bolted the base to the deck.

[Pat]

Yes Pepper-mint, that's exactly the standard Navy Stockless Anchor, basically the same no matter what country.

And yes, that hole on the left side of the third picture, the one with the rusty anchor, is exaclty how I made the anchor for my U-boat functional, just a rod (or in the case of the model, a small wire) going through from side to side.  In the real one, there's probably just a nut on each end of the rod to keep it in place.

One final comment, in your middle picture of the anchor from behind, note the "500x" in the base casting.  That means that the anchor weighs 500 kilos, or 1/2 ton.  Anchors are sized depending on the tonnage and length of the boat.  A steel boat needs a bigger anchor than a fibreglass one for instance, and a longer boat needs a bigger anchor than a shorter one of the same weight.

The biggest of the 4 anchors on my boat is a 30 lb CQR type, which is the one I'd use in a storm.  My "lunch hook" (used for short time anchoring on a calm day) is a 9 lb Danforth style.

[Pepper-mint]

Very instructive and interesting descriptions.

Finally the Kpt. didn't have a real influence or involvement on the subs general patrol performances (radio/sonar/engine power/security arrangements on the deck) ; just on the deck gunnery, and with good "connections" the latest radio/detection devices/torpedos.

Pat, yes 500 kilos (pretty light...): I'm surprised, there is no picture showing a u-boat laying at anchor.

Was the anchor an emergency option ? If during a war patrol the sub had to stop or hide in a desert creek/... or outside a port, what was the procedure ?

@johnd : Thanks. You need very good cutting tools. A very quick glue, and a 20cm piece of 4mm diam. metal rod. with a smooth or heavy pressure (depending on what "curve" you'd like to shape) roll the thin plastic r. between the metal rod and your thumb. Install technique depends from your skills and experience. You have to build and learn. A lot of threads/posts in this great forum...