AMP - Accurate Model Parts
SEA => SUBS: Uboats => ALL other U-boats => Topic started by: conus00 on 20 Dec , 2008, 00:20
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Hi guys,
I thought I would share with you the process of building the Type XXI u-boat. I am aware that Revell's kit is far from being an accurate representation of WW2 Type XXI but I believe that with a little bit of skills and some scratchbuilding I can get as close as possible.
There is no photo-etched set for this kit on the market so I decided to use some parts from Eduard's Type VIID. I also got machined periscopes from Schatton Modelbau.
Now the build.
I have decided to build U-2536 based on this photo:
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/U2536-1.jpg?t=1249807256)
This is the only picture of real U-2536 I have so with the rest of the build I intend to follow "general" pictures of Type XXI.
Based on this picture I have created a mock-up so I believe that the boat looked something like this:
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/U-2536-1.jpg?t=1249807282)
The Revell kit completely lacks any interior in the conning tower so I decided to scratchbuild it. Along with UZO stand and access hatch.
I also created alcoves for the radar and the schnorchel which on the original model were too shallow and looked very unrealistic:
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01371.jpg?t=1249807398)
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01373.jpg?t=1249807431)
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01374.jpg?t=1249807445)
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01375.jpg?t=1249807463)
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01376.jpg?t=1249807479)
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01377.jpg?t=1249807498)
After I put everything together I decided to fix the front of the conning tower toward the front flak. This is probably the biggest mistake Revell made making this kit because the model is based on U-2540 (aka Wilhelm Bauer) and W.B. had both flaks removed and replaced with windowed bridge. When W.B. was restored back to become U-2540 again, the builders, during the restoration, just simply cut away the bridge and placed the flak guns back on without bothering to restore the tower back to original. There is also another very visible mistake: the rim at the front of the tower is being to "squarish" instead of being rounded. While making all those changes I also decided to "sink" the positioning lights into the tower and shave off the ugly rungs:
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01379.jpg?t=1249807531)
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01380.jpg?t=1249807563)
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01381.jpg?t=1249807578)
After I took all those pictures I realized that the side lookout doors and the trim on the front one are way too thick and look unrealistic so I shaved them off and also decided that the railing running around the tower had too go too:
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01382.jpg?t=1249807672)
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01383.jpg?t=1249807692)
Now comes the best part of the build (detailing and scratchbuilding): :)
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01386.jpg?t=1249807705)
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01387.jpg?t=1249807723)
Here is the list of modifications and detailing to the conning tower I've made so far:
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01387x.jpg?t=1249807744)
1 rounded nose of the tower
2 aerial hook and whatever that hole is (?) :D
3 replaced barrels and created supressors
4 hinges
5 interior with UZO stand, access hatch, RDF loop opening
6 sky periscope assembly, thin lookout doors with hinges
7 radar and scnorchel alcoves, KM flag and the commissioning pennant holes
8 elongated conning tower fin
9 door hinges
10 ladder rungs
11 recessed positioning lights
12 proper tower transition
13 railing
TBC...
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Good going Conus00!
Ill be following your build with interest.
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Connus00, Excellant photo presentation..top quallity detailing on your work..Bill
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First update guys. Didn't have much time during Christmas to work on my modeling projects but I have managed to put a first coat on the sail. I opted for filling the flooding/draining holes with flat black to simulate "openings". I believe that after detailed touch-ups the result will be satisfactory.
Note: this is just a first coat so all the imperfections will be (hopefully) fixed by the second coat... :D
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01418.jpg?t=1249808007)
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01419.jpg?t=1249807992)
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01421.jpg?t=1249807949)
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A lot of detail..she looks very nice
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Conus00.
Great job man, this is looking great.
And it
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Guys, thanks for your kind replies. I found them very encouraging. I will get back to working on the model as soon as I have some more time. My new year started really sad: my girlfriend's Dad passed away on the January 3rd and we have been trying to take care of it ever since. Us living in Ohio and him in Louisiana just complicates things a lot.
@ Cezar to answer your questions: there is not an aftermarket PE set for this boat I know of so you are pretty much depending on your scratch building skills. Also I have absoulutely no problem with you using my build as a reference but you might do some of the research about 2513 under US flag because there might be some differences to 2536.
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Darn it, all the photos are gone before i saved them... but i just bought "Anatomy Of the Boat" for Type XXI. ;)
By the way, you are in Ohio ? I live in suburbs of Cleveland. Small world.
Cezar.
Bingo, i can see the pictures again.... all saved now.
C
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Hi guys,
finally got back to working on the boat. After a careful consideration I decided to replace the 20mm twin flaks with smaller diameter wire. I think that the result is much more satisfactory. Also I have decided to scratch build RDF loop and the radar array because I didn't like the original ones: they were too bulky and unproportionate.
Here is the comparison to the originals:
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01549.jpg?t=1249808124)
I also decided to make some serious changes to the snort, because the original from the kit is not very accurate. I based the new one on this picture:
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/XXI-18.jpg?t=1249808177)
You can decide how close I got to the original:
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01553.jpg?t=1249808151)
I have glued all the pieces of the conning tower together, installed the Schatton's machined periscopes and the whole sail was painted second coat and weathered. I am gonna set it aside for now because I consider it done and start working on the hull (drilling holes).
Here are some pictures of the conning tower (BTW the flash and the proximity of the camera make the colors too sharp and the rust too flat. I real life the sail looks much MUCH better):
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01555.jpg?t=1249808213)
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01558.jpg?t=1249808230)
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Nice, and definately relevant, update - your scratchbuild are way better than the kit parts.
If on someone made a XXI in 1:72 ... ;D
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Thanks Jan,
if they made this boat in 1/72 I'd have to move to bigger place, mate. ;D
I have been eyeballing Revell's 1/72 VIIC (both versions) for a while but I am very restricted by space.
So far it is gonna be only 1/144 u-boats in my dockyard (working on this one and having VIIC, VIID, XXIII and IXC (1/150 close enough) in the stash).
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Hi Conus, your build is looking great. I really like your painting!
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Thanks, mate. As I said before you should see it in real life: it is much more subtle.
Quick update (this time without pictures): Started drilling out holes in the hull. I have decided to cut out just the rows of the "big ones" on the sides and (again) fill the smaller ones with flat black to simulate openings. I kinda like the way turm turned out.
Also I would like to ask for help here: Does anyone have a close-up of the main drain holes in the hull? I have gone through my whole archive of XXI pics (electronic and books) and this is the only picture I have found:
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/U2518-2.jpg?t=1249808330)
It seems to me that they were split in a halves with a small splitter inside? Also I need to find out if there were any sort of "ribs" between each one of them.
Any help here would be really appreciated.
Thanks!
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You have PM.
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OK, not a picture but quick snap from the drawings i have.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/czarecki/XXI.jpg)
Looks like only three holes had a spliter in them, the ones circled in red.
HTH,
Cezar.
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Thanks, mate. As I said before you should see it in real life: it is much more subtle.
Quick update (this time without pictures): Started drilling out holes in the hull. I have decided to cut out just the rows of the "big ones" on the sides and (again) fill the smaller ones with flat black to simulate openings. I kinda like the way turm turned out.
Also I would like to ask for help here: Does anyone have a close-up of the main drain holes in the hull? I have gone through my whole archive of XXI pics (electronic and books) and this is the only picture I have found:
It seems to me that they were split in a halves with a small splitter inside? Also I need to find out if there were any sort of "ribs" between each one of them.
Any help here would be really appreciated.
Thanks!
Hi conus00
Did you get my PM & picture I sent?
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@NZSnowman Yes, I did. Thanks a lot for trying to help me out but unfortunately on the picture is U-2513 in her post-war modification under US flag. I can't use that picture as a reference.
@Cezar That is an interesting drawing (from Vom Original zum Modell Typ XXI) and you are right that according to the drawing the splitters should be only in holes #2, 4 and 5. Unfortunately if you take a look at the pics of U-2518 the splitters seem to be definitely in holes #2, 3 and 4 and (when I tried to blow up the picture in Photoshop) in hole #1 as well. There were so many differences in real XXI compared to the blueprints that it would drive modeler nuts. :D
I will keep looking, if I can't find any more sources I will consider either Cezar's drawing or just put a splitter in every hole. :(
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@NZSnowman Yes, I did. Thanks a lot for trying to help me out but unfortunately on the picture is U-2513 in her post-war modification under US flag. I can't use that picture as a reference.
Thanks conus00, learn something everyday ;D I am thinking about drawing the XXI after I have finish my VIIC/41, I will try to remember is about this picture ::)
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Ok, guys.
Small update. I have finished drilling and opening the draining holes in both halves of the hull. I can't seem to find reference pictures for the "insides" of the holes so this is probably the road I will take: I have created a 3D mock-up and I will try to go with this following idea:
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/drainingholes.jpg?t=1249808454)
I'm still waiting for one more person to get back to me with some additional pictures so I will wait a little bit longer...
What do you guys think?
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Server is down.
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Picture should be up now...
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Here are a few pictures I found of U-2440 at Flickr of the main drain holes. they may be useful.
http://flickr.com/photos/diabloazul/2424372476/sizes/o/in/set-72157604614971687/ (http://flickr.com/photos/diabloazul/2424372476/sizes/o/in/set-72157604614971687/) by Bremerhaven
http://flickr.com/photos/diabloazul/2423563763/sizes/o/in/set-72157604614971687/ (http://flickr.com/photos/diabloazul/2423563763/sizes/o/in/set-72157604614971687/) by Bremerhaven
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Good pictures. Thanks!
I wonder how many changes were made to Wilhelm Bauer after the war in this particular area?
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I was thinking about the same thing, as I was downloading a few pictures from the inside of the boat. There should a report about that example in the charges of U-2440. There a few drawing of the charges in Anatomy of the Ship - The Type XXI U-boat. I believe they sent a lot time to bring U-2440 back to 1945.
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Ok, guys.
Small update. I have finished drilling and opening the draining holes in both halves of the hull. I can't seem to find reference pictures for the "insides" of the holes so this is probably the road I will take: I have created a 3D mock-up and I will try to go with this following idea:
(http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/74895cba67586240772c33fba301e0dc6g.jpg)
I'm still waiting for one more person to get back to me with some additional pictures so I will wait a little bit longer...
What do you guys think?
I just found this in Anatomy of the Ship - The Type XXI U-boat.
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8313/new2g.jpg)
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Ok, here we go...
I apologize for not keeping this thread up-to-date but I'm going through some personal problems right now which do not leave too much time for modelling.
Enough said, I have gotten back to working on my build of U-2536 recently so here's a small update:
All the flood holes are dremelled out, I have decided (due the lack of the references) to put the splitters in draining holes #2, 4 and 5. Time to paint the holes and weather them....
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01681.jpg?t=1249808526)
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01682.jpg?t=1249808572)
Next step is to build torpedo tube(s)...
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I like it! keep up!
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Here's another small update.
Torpedo tube finished (I decided to open just one and keep the others closed).
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01720.jpg?t=1249808631)
Build the linkage of the bow diving planes. Decided to get rid of the "toyish" Revell option and glued them in fully-open.
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01717.jpg?t=1249808684)
The same part painted (Please note that, yet again, the camera makes the "rust" look too flat and outlined. In real it is actually very subtle and looks like a real rust.)
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01719.jpg?t=1249808712)
Getting close to gluing both halves of hull together (as soon as all dries and I figure out how to mount the boat on the pedestal). :D
Later.
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Allright, I have both hulls glued together, figured how to mount the model on the custom stand and have been doing some more research on painting the boat. Unfortunately here I ran into a small glitch: I may have made a mistake while creating the mock-up of the paint scheme.
I would really appreciate your take on this.
Looking very closely on the original picture (in the starting post of this thread) I have found out that some of the lines are way too straight to be just wear on the paint (highlighted in yellow here):
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/U2536-1-1.jpg?t=1249809056)
Doing further research I have found out that there was actually a color scheme including a combination of yellow and black stripes on the school boats. Here is Revell's paint scheme of U-2514
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/U2514REV.jpg?t=1249809153)
and picture of the real U-2514:
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/U2514-1XXI.jpg?t=1249809173)
So I figured that the revised mock-up should look more likely like this:
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/U-2536-2.jpg?t=1249809205)
Another two facts supporting this theory are that the little symbol next to number 2536 is Frontreif badge (painted on the school boats when they were ready to leave the school for combat) and U-2536 never went on a single patrol. It was part of the 31. Flottille (training) under the command of Oblt. Ulrich V
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Hi Libor,
Your research on the training colours looks correct. The black vertical stripe behind the tower rungs was intended to hide the smudging from the tips of the sailors' boots (which occurred when they climbed up and down the tower). The black stripe can be found on some VIIC towers.
The yellow will add a ncie bit of colour, I think.
Cheers,
Dougie
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Hi Libor,
You may be intersted in the cover of the new U-Boot im Focus (edition 5) -
http://www.luftfahrtverlag-start.de/UBootEnglish/ubootenglish.html#UiF-EditionE05
Cheers,
Dougie
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Thanks Dougie, I've seen that picture before. It's U-3018, great picture. I'm little surprised that there is only limited amount of pictures of Type XXI on the net considering how revolutionary the u-boat actually was.
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Just a quick update to let you know, that this thread is still alive. This time without pictures, though.
Everything is glued together and after tons of putty and countless hours of sanding (yeah, the two-piece deck and the rest of the hull aren't exactly perfect fit) I am painting and weathering....
Every detail is already on the boat, it is only missing the propellers. Which brings a question: The Revell's instructions call for brass color but I have read somewhere that towards the end of the war the Germans were running out of precious metals and brass and copper were getting really scarce. According to what I read the Germans started to use iron for the propellers. Can somebody confirm this?
Also, a very nice touch: I was able to find Frontreif emblem small enough to perfectly fit 1/144th scale (from one of the Flagman's 1/350th u-boats). Big thanks go to Peter Trukhin (Director of Flagman Ltd) who was kind enough to send me two decal sheets in the mail free of charge.
Thanks a lot, Peter!!!
Stay tuned for the next update (maybe the final one) this time with pictures.
-L
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From memory (baaaad), I think it was 42 or 43 the KM went to steel props. An excerpt from my U 557 build: "The pre-1942-ish propellers were bronze (later steel due to material shortage). U 557 was laid down in 1940, so most likely had bronze props..." Can't recall what book/source, but I was very intent on finding answer because it was the difference between painting the plastic kit props steel and weathering with paint, or spending $30 on brass!
Nice on the free decals. The folks in this hobby (not really the right term...) are good folk.
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So do you think that I should paint the propellers silver weathered?
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If she was built in 43, or launched mid-late 43, I'd say you are safe with weathered steel.
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U-2536
Ordered 6 Nov 1943
Laid down 21 Oct 1944
Launched 16 Dec 1944
Commissioned 6 Feb 1945
Scuttled 3 May 1945
So i guess weathered steel it is.... :D
Also another small issue with propellers: according to Revell's instructions both propellers have the same part number (20) but one is clockwise and one is counter-clockwise.
According to my sources the port propeller was clockwise and the starboard counter-clockwise....
Is that info correct?
The boat is weathered and IMO looks really good. The last three things left to do are rigging the aerial antennas (still not decided if I'm gonna go with safety railing, too) painting, weathering and installing the propellers and, of course :D, taking pictures for you guys.....
I am also really pissed off, because after I put on both Frontreif emblems (which were REALLY hard to obtain) on, for some weird reason one of them didn't stick and (to use Ron White's saying) "fell the f**k off" and got lost before I could put last clear coat on the sail.
We are talking about decal approximately 1.5 x 1.5 mm and I have spent about an hour looking for it.... >:(
Hopefully I would be able to obtain another one......
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That decal spot could be some extreme weathering..flaking, chipping, and rust. Maybe dab some paint of the the basic decal color is, then chip and rust the rest, voila!
Props - Looking at the stern from a water skiing position, the right = right/clockwise, the left = left/anti-cw. Generally. Should be fine The counter rotation reduced torque. You may want to check prop web sites for how to tell what a prp looks like headed right, etc.
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That decal spot could be some extreme weathering..flaking, chipping, and rust. Maybe dab some paint of the the basic decal color is, then chip and rust the rest, voila!
Props - Looking at the stern from a water skiing position, the right = right/clockwise, the left = left/anti-cw. Generally. Should be fine The counter rotation reduced torque. You may want to check prop web sites for how to tell what a prp looks like headed right, etc.
Good idea replacing the decal but I have managed to get a hold of another friendly Russian modeler who is willing to help me and send me an decal replacement.
Also, the props, according to this picture the the port propeller was clockwise and the starboard counter-clockwise so that is how I glued them on.
Model is pretty much finished, just waiting for the decal, last clearcoat and a sunny day outside so I can snap some pictures without flash.
Just to give you a lil' teaser, here is a couple of pictures but I really don't like how the flash is making the 'rust' looking too sharp and outlined.
It is much more subtle and realistic looking on the model itself...
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01919-1.jpg?t=1249810223)
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/DSC01920-1.jpg?t=1249810242)
There are two last things to take care of:
Find some bevelled pine board (approx 4x16 inches), stain it mahagony and find somebody to engrave a polished brass plate with the description.
So far I have failed on both counts....
Does anyone (living in the US) have a source for those? I would really appreciate your help!
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In the US and Australia, it's a matter of going to a shopping mall - there are kiosk/booths for key copies and key chains and engraving. they make brass plaques pretty cheap. For my U 557 model I stuck a nameplate onto the etching for the UBrass project, which was cheating, but you should be able to have a nameplate made for about the equivalent of US$25 max (I'm guessing). If you have no luck, I'll see what I can source here for you. Boat is looking fiiiine!
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Thanks for the praise!
I am still waiting for the decal and still looking for wooden base.
I have been playing arund with the brass plaque. I am pretty much decided on the text, but would like to include an engraving of Reichsadler too (it's the exact copy of stamp used on silverware and clocks).
What do you guys think, which one looks better?
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk234/conus00/Type%20XXI%20build/Plates.jpg)
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Bottom one looks much better. Not that i have anything against the nazi symbols on models- the bottom plaque its much more informative, without being overcrowded with unnecessary detail.
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I Agree with Siara - much better balance without the H
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did you ever managed to get some shots out in the sunlight?
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Not yet, but I will take them together with my Type XXIII when I finish it.