Author Topic: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details  (Read 576554 times)

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Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2445 on: 02 Jan , 2015, 01:59 »
Don.
A happy new year to you as well.
I like your last brush up of the Skizzenbuch very well and shall revert with a few comments later. Right now I am posting an image with details of the two pitot tubes for the speedlog which might have your interest.
Tore
« Last Edit: 02 Jan , 2015, 07:45 by tore »

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2446 on: 06 Jan , 2015, 11:11 »
Maciek.
I have been asked  about the Anschutz gyro repeaters and checked with your translation of your exellent VIIC manual provided by Donald.
On page 73 is stated:
" a) Gyro compass installation.
      The Gyro compass installation consists of a gyro compass ( in the controlroom) and seven repeaters-
      The repeaters are located as follows:
      1 in the controlroom
      1 in the conningtower
      2 on the bridge ( one with bearing telescope)
      1 in the radio room
      1 wallrepeater in the controlroom near the active sonar equipment
       1 in the listening room"......

On museum U 995 the helmsmans gyrorepeater in the control room which can be moved the to emergecy steering in th E-room is missing but I cannot locate the bulkheadrepeater next to the active sonarequipment. Do you happen to have any photos showing the repeaters near the active sonar equipment, radioroom or hydrophoneroom? 
Tore

Offline SnakeDoc

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2447 on: 06 Jan , 2015, 14:22 »
Hi Tore,

On museum U 995 the helmsmans gyrorepeater in the control room which can be moved the to emergecy steering in th E-room is missing but I cannot locate the bulkheadrepeater next to the active sonarequipment. Do you happen to have any photos showing the repeaters near the active sonar equipment, radioroom or hydrophoneroom? 

I have never seen any photo of gyro-repeater next to the active sonar equipment (that is over chart table) in the U 995 control room. I guess, that this unit was used to replace the original helmsman repeater. However, I have attached photos of this repeater from the U 96 and U 98 control room.
The gyro-repeater in the radio room is embedded into the desk, where is integrated with the radio-direction finder dial.
I have never seen the photo of the gyro-repeater in the listening room.

--
Regards
Maciek

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2448 on: 07 Jan , 2015, 04:09 »
Maciek.
Thank you for the photos. Scrutinising the surroundings of the chart table of U 995 I cannot find any brackets for the gyrorepeater neither the connection, it is however quite logical that the navigator would have a repeater at this table. In an emergency configuration I guess it would be logical that the helmsmans repeater was moved to the emergency steering aft as this repeater was not in use at the helmsman normal place. The navigator would still require a repeater at the chartable as the navigation continues to take place on this location in a aft steering configuration. 
Tore

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2449 on: 08 Jan , 2015, 04:07 »
Don.
On page 84 in your Skizzenbuch you are using one of my images showing the wheel wrench and a wrongly assumed T bar wrench. The "T bar" shown on the casing deck is a hand support for the access in and out of the hatch  May be you should change that image and use the images below.
Tore
« Last Edit: 08 Jan , 2015, 04:08 by tore »

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2450 on: 09 Jan , 2015, 06:55 »
Don.

The Junker freepiston compressor
Your Skizzenbuch contains some fragments of descriptions of the Junker which in some cases are confusing due to misunderstandings in the sources you have been using. This is quite understandable as there are very few, if any at all, complete descriptions available of this unique piece of machinery. Just after the WW2 the compressor was a topic which was widely discussed amongst  the RN and other submarine engineers as it was an advanced construction well ahead of its time, yet the beginning of the development of same started during WW1 and the first engine was shown in Leipzig 1936.
In an attempt to make a working explanation I have written the following description:

The Junker free piston compressor type 4FK-115 is an opposed piston, dieseldriven 4 stage compressor and consist of a dieselpart in in the center and two stages of compressors at the ends. The dieselengine is a single cylinder uniflow scavenged two stroke engine, having a cylinderdiameter of 115 mm and a stroke which varies normally between 218 to 225 mm. The diesel pistons are directly connected to the one- and two stage compressorpiston at the scavengingport side and a second- and third stage compressor piston at the exhaust port side.
Each piston has a yoke connected to two synchronizing gear racks driving two gearwheel with stubshaft centrally placed opposite each other on both sides of the dieselengine. The rear gearwheel stubshaft is connected to a rotary vane type cooling waterpump and by external rodconnection to a swash type of lubricator having ten supplypipes to various lubricating points, including both dieselcylinders and the four compressor cylinders.
The front gearwheel stubshaft operates a Bosch plunger fuel injection pump having its supply from the day/ setling tank in the engine room and directly connected to the cylinder fuelinjection valve.
The front stubshaft is protruding out of the compressorcasing ending in a square where a crank can be connected for moving the pistons in an outer end starting position. Around this shaft is a indicatorplate showing the position of the pistonassembly in the cylinder.
The central area surrounding the firststage compressor- and diesel enginecylinder including the scavenging ports is forming a large airbox ( light blue coloured ) which act both as a scavenging air reservoir as well as a bouncing chamber having a volume about 21 liters.

Starting procedure.
Starting is done by putting a crank on the square of the rackwheel stubshaft controlled by the synchronizing gearwheel driving the HP fuel pump. By turning the crank the pistons are forced in an outer dead end position where a hand-or pneumatic controlled catch engages and locks the piston assembly in a starting position.
By this movement the underpart of the first stage compressorpiston draws air ( light blue ) from the scavenging air inlet duct to a chamber enclosed by the underpart of the first stage compression piston and a plate with several small springloaded air supply valves ( shut at this point ) separating  the scavenging air box from the enclosed chamber under the compression piston.
App. 1/3 of the first stage compressors compression stroke acts as a part air supply ( dark green) for the air box via the compressor cylinder airports through  separate channels to the airbox.
The diesel engine is now in a locked starting position where the scavenging- and exhaustports are open, the scavenging air is pushing the exhaust out of the exhaust ports and the cylinder is filled with air from the scavenging air box.
Underneath the compressor is a starting air flask connected to the air valve assembly on the compressor front consisting of an airpressure maintaining valve which can be adjusted between 140 and 210 kg/cm safetyvalves cutting the fuelsupply when pressure is dangerously high and a startingvalve manually or automatic/pneumatic operated.
Via the starting valve, air at pressure of app 35 kg/cm2, from the startingflask is supplied to the various stages of the compressor cylinders. When the airpressure of the 1 stage reaches app. 3,5 kg/cm2, the catch releases and the pistons rapidly are forced towards each other, stopped by the compression, rate about 1:40, and the fuelinjection ignites. The combustion forces the pistons appart and by that the scavenging air is drawn into the the confined space under the first stage compressor piston  as previously explained. App. 1/3 of the first stage compressor piston stroke supplies air via separate channels to the air box to assure sufficient scavenging. The rest of the stroke supplies air to the 2nd. stage compressor cylinder. At the dead outer end of the stroke the diesel pistons reveals the scavenging and exhaustports  and air under pressure from the scavenging airbox via the scavenging ports forces the exhaust out of the exhaust ports. At this point the pistons change direction as the pistons bounce back initiated by the pressure energy of the residue airpressure kept by the adjustable outlet air pressure maintenance valve ( 140-210 kg/cm2) fitted after the  fourth stage cooler, as well as some lesser bouncing chambers formed around the compressor piston rods of stage one and two, see image. they bounce back and As The pistons shuts the exhaust and scavenging ports and the diesel compression stroke starts. At the turning of the pistons, the underside of the first stage compressor piston starts acting like a compressor, forcing air through the small springloaded valves in the separating plate into the scavenging air box and fill same with fresh air. 4/5 of the scavenging air is supplied in this way ,the remaining 1/5 is supplied by the first 1/3 of the first stage compression stroke.

Prior to the end of the diesel compression stroke the fuelpump/valve is timed to end the injection at the same piston position irrelevant of the speed ( frequency). Thus any change in amount of fuel injected is done by an earlier start of the injection.
From here on the cycles are repeated and the compressor is running.
The scavenging air consumption to produce 1 kg. of HP air (205 kg/cm2) is about 1-1.25 kg of which 0,75 kg is required for combustion, the remainder is used for purging and cooling of the dieselcylinder.
The pressure fluctuation of the scavenging air varies between 0,75- and 1,25 kg/cm2.
For a proper balancing, the compressor does not deliver air before the 4th stage air pressure reaches 52 kg/cm2 controlled by the previously mentioned air pressure maintaining valve in the starting airvalve assembly.

The length of the piston stroke  is not restricted, but as the Junker compressor is a so called fixed output machine, the stroke variation is limited and almost insensitive to the load. F. inst the speed increases only slightly as the counterpressure increases.

The compressor is fully balanced, has a low weight/volume output ratio, is not hampered so much under throttled condition which all makes it very suitable for submarines. However it is noisy and susceptible to bad combustion as carbon might be formed at the dieselpistons creating unbalance hence requires frequent maintenance intervals.

The cooling
The watercooling ( green ) is normally carried out by the vane type cooling waterpump driven from an eccentric at the back side synchronizing stubshaft  The compressor is, with exception of the 4 th. stage, only partially waterjacketed ( green coloured). The major air cooling takes place outside at the bottom of the compressor for each stage in separate intercoolers which reduces the temperature after each stage and at the outlet of 4 th stage has an endcooler for the final cooling.
Tore
« Last Edit: 15 Jan , 2015, 04:26 by tore »

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2451 on: 09 Jan , 2015, 23:50 »
Hello Mr. Tore,


I will work on updating Skizzenbuch this weekend...  I spent the last 2 days recovering a corrupted MS word file (the 3rd segment of 3 files)) that I use to build Skizzenbuch into one PDF file.  I was working on the 'Torpedo Topic" and MS Word "BLEW UP!" How poetic is that!  MY MS Word file got hit by a LUT torpedo with the correct gyro-angle, distance, bend, and search pattern using the correct a + 1a, and the a - 1a values...  Go figure.......


Regards,
Don_
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2452 on: 11 Jan , 2015, 01:05 »
Hello Mr. Tore and Maciek,


I just added all the suggested info from Mr. Tore, and I updated the torpedo section and moved pages around to make it flow better.  If there are any issues, then please let me know.  I uploaded the latest version of Skizzenbuch to dropbox...


Mr. Tore, I had to Google "Bouncing Chamber" to see what you were talking about.  I learned something new...


Regards,
Don_
« Last Edit: 11 Jan , 2015, 01:08 by Don Prince »
A man's got to know his limitations...
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Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2453 on: 11 Jan , 2015, 12:43 »
Don.
I have read your update on the the Junker in the Skizzenbuch and have some small remarks. The first is that RN stands for Royal navy and is primarily the British navy, the Norwegian navy is nominated as R Nor. navy, but the Junker was discussed in both navies as well as others.
 An interesting note is your translation of the German text on the Junker exhaust system where your translation says a watertrap was introduced in both end for one boat. If you look at my plate 13 images  below,   for the system for the MAN engine plate 13 A there is no such trap indicated, whereas on plate 13 for the GW engine a watertrap is introduced right before the exhaust outlet of the Junker. Unfortunately nothing is shown on the museum U 995 but I would assume any requirement for a watertrap would not depend on the type of main engine. My guess is, this has something to do with the time for updating the sketches and that the GW ME system is the latest corrected, It would be interesting to see your German text as the translation is a bit unclear to me.
Tore
« Last Edit: 13 Jan , 2015, 04:15 by tore »

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2454 on: 11 Jan , 2015, 16:57 »
Hello Mr. Tore,


I corrected the RN as (Royal Navy - British)...



This wasn't my translation...  Please see *Reply #2293 on:[/size] 24 Oct , 2014, 03:08 ยป [/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]This was a posting from Maciek.  Do I need to change something?[/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size]Regards,[/color]
[/size]Don_[/color]
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2455 on: 12 Jan , 2015, 03:35 »
Don.
I have read Maciecks original German text on the Junker exhaust waterintrusion problem and believe I have an understanding of the German final solution, which eventually would be found on the boats assumed delivered after 1942.
 In 1941 they obviously still were working on the problem, then according to the documentation furnished by Maciek, they redesigned a detail on the Junker scavenging system by introducing scavenging ports on the first stage compressor stroke.
 At the outer stroke the dieselpistons reveals the dieselcylinders scavenging ports as well as the exhaust ports and the overpressure left from the combustion and airbox pushes the gases out of the cylinder against the counterpressure in the exhaust line. If the sea swell fills the exhaustpipe, the counterpressure can be excessive and water intrusion occurs. The greater the swell, the higher the exhaustpressure rises, hence a limitation to the swell of 5. To overcome the extra pressure, the  first stage compressor piston is used to give a higher scavengingpressure. This happens just when the pressure in the scavenging airbox drops as the exhaust ports are open . See my image, blue indicates the scavenging air box, (green) indicates the supportpressure deriving from the ports and separate channels from 1.rst stage 1/3 stroke of the compressors piston to the scavenging air box
 In addition I assume  a second exhaustvalve was introduced outside the pressurehull which has a airconnection on the waterside,to blow the exhaustpipe between the valve and the muffler and operated from inside the pressurehull, with interlock to the aft buoyancy ventvalve as previously discussed. See my sketch below.
 As a final countermeasure a watertrap was fitted just before the Junker exhaust outlet as indicated on the system image  plate 13 for the GW. engines.
Tore
« Last Edit: 12 Jan , 2015, 07:10 by tore »

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2456 on: 12 Jan , 2015, 10:26 »
Don.
Your Googled explanation of a bouncing chamber is probably not so easy to understand in relation to a free opposed piston dieselengine. In an attempt to avoid math. and thermodynamics a very simplified explanation could perhaps be : In a conventional dieselengine the mass energy stored in the piston, conrods, crankshaft and flywheel contribute to the compression stroke. A free piston engine has no rotating mass energy stored and as there are no mechanical restrictions of the piston stroke the pistons are stopped in the outer position by aircompression. As some of the compression energy is used to fill the airvessels, part of the bouncing effect is gone. However the pressure maintenance valve keep the compression pistons backpressure at a level which gives a bouncing effect and in addition you have two small bouncing chambers (red on the image below) formed around the first and second stage compressor pistonrods. The bouncing substitutes the rotating masses and create a spring effect bouncing the dieselpistons back to compression.
You may say it is almost the " flywheel" of a free piston engine

The green text to be inserted and the old text to be deleted


Tore
« Last Edit: 15 Jan , 2015, 06:13 by tore »

Offline Don Prince

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2457 on: 13 Jan , 2015, 19:22 »
Hello Mr. Tore,


I added two pages of info in the JUnkers section of Skizzenbuck and re-indexed the book.  I uploaded the latest version of Skizzenbuch into dropbox...


Regards,
Don_
A man's got to know his limitations...
Harry Callahan, SFPD

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2458 on: 14 Jan , 2015, 06:44 »
Don.
 I have read you update on the Junker based on my last info and guess it is OK. One remark, on page 93 the text says:"...the interlock prevents the Junker compressor from starting because the exhaust valve can not be opened unless the stern buoyancy tank vent valve is shut..." Maybe a simpler way to say this is: the inter lock prevent the compressor to be started as the exhaustvalve cannot be opened unless the stern buoyancy vent valve is shut, thereby keeping........"
Tore

Offline tore

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Re: Tores mailbox VIIC and VIIC/41 operation and technical details
« Reply #2459 on: 15 Jan , 2015, 04:48 »
Don.
Reading my description of the Junker i am not fully satisfied particularly concerning the so called bouncing chamber or more correctly scavenging air box ( chamber). I have  changed some of my text in reply 2450. The old text coloured red should be deleted and the new text coloured green to be inserted. Further the image of Junker last 7-1 following the text should be deleted and the image below to be inserted. Sorry about this, but I guess this is a more correct version of the Junker. I am correcting some of the text in my reply 2456 as well soonest.
Sorry about this.
Tore