Author Topic: Two VIIC down... one IIA on the horizon ! (Read 16501 times)

GlennCauley · « **on:** 27 Feb , 2013, 06:09 »

Yeh yeh, I know... "long time no hear"

I haven't done a sub model since I finished off U-673 in September 2011. Life has gotten in the way, with a few major events (both good and bad) having happened in the meantime.

We have CAPCON 2013 coming up in late September, and I have been wracking my brains (a very quick process due to it's limited size) trying to think of a model I want to build for it. I've gone through 2 ideas and even started building, then I had an epiphany.

What got me back into modelling, what do I know, and what am I (fairly) good at building? U-boats!

It would take too long to build another 1/72 Type VII... and I would want to build a VIID minelayer.

Sooooooo........... out comes the SN Type IIA kit with the AMP upgrade set! Booyaaaahhhhh baby!

Just to make sure I had enough for the future, I actually bought TWO of these (kit & upgrade set) while the sets were available a short time ago.
Why have ONE U-boat kit when for double the price you can have TWO

I have re-read the instructions on the upgrade set, and started mentally preparing my build.
There are, of course, other things I plan to do with this kit along the way, and this is what finds me here now.
I need help. (Go ahead, laugh... I KNOW I need help. D'oh!)

Here are a few questions I need to get answered before I plan my build further.
I hope some of you can help!

1. There is absolutely NO rivet detail on the SN Type IIA kit.
Did these boats not have external rivets on the outer casing like the VIIC ?
If rivets are missing, it will take a lot of planning to add these to the build. I would likely assume the pitch and spacing to be similar to a VIIC. This includes the double-row rivets on the doublers.

2. The long flooding channels atop the saddletanks. Were there vertical reinforcing ribs inside these channels (like on VIIC) ?

3. The welds on the hull seem very uniformly squarish. I will likely replace these with more realistic textured welds (either reworking the kit welds with my patented "super weld maker thingy" tool, or using Archer welds).

4. Is there a detail set for the AA gun on the boat? I have some 20mm barrels left over from my VIIC detail sets, so I'd use those. But looking for MORE details too... anything out there?

5. Did type IIA use the same torpedoes as the VIIC? I have a few CMK detail sets with torpedoes, and it would be nice to use them if possible.

Thanks in advance!

Glenn Cauley
Canada

Anakin · « **Reply #1 on:** 27 Feb , 2013, 12:07 »

Hi.

Nice to hear that you are starting a new project... A nice one! I

SG · « **Reply #2 on:** 27 Feb , 2013, 12:17 »

Welcome back Glenn! am looking forward to see the project's development as per U-673.
What boat nr you have in mind (U1 to U6)? Tell us and i'll happily start searching for pics showing closeups.
Answer to question 5): same torpedoes of type VIIs as far as i know (G7's, 533mmCal - http://www.navypedia.org/arms/germany/arms_ger_torps.htm -)
On standby
Cheers!

PS i noticed that Anakin was faster than me n provided a better answer. Great!

GlennCauley · « **Reply #3 on:** 27 Feb , 2013, 12:26 »

I was thinking either U4 (euphoria).

If everything was welded... there must be weld lines then instead of rivet rows? Surely these things could not have a smooth surface... or am I wrong? Also thought about doing oilcanning again... but then I'd still need to find out the relative spacing of the welds.

I don't even know where to look for IIA stuff... but I have lots of VIIC reference materials. ANY help is appreciated.

Or... gadzooks... what if I broke with accuracy -- after doing all the AMP upgrades, mind you -- and added <gasp> rivets like a VIIC? Would there be a revolt? Could I claim "artistic license"? Would I lose all credibility?

Anakin · « **Reply #4 on:** 27 Feb , 2013, 12:33 »

I think that the AMP set manual shows the missing weld lines. But good pics would help a lot.
Vom Original zum modell typ II book could be useful to see the spacing of the supportive structure.
< for the oil canning job...

SG · « **Reply #5 on:** 27 Feb , 2013, 12:35 »

Glenn, here's a classic start:
http://www.mille-sabords.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=40300&st=0
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=149950
will look for something more!

tsenecal · « **Reply #6 on:** 27 Feb , 2013, 20:57 »

don't know if you already have this, but this is the book i am using as my primary reference. both for the 1/72 type II from special navy, and my home made 1/32 r/c.

[url=http://www.amazon.com/Vom-Original-Modell-Uboottyp-Einb

GlennCauley · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 Feb , 2013, 08:48 »

Thank you all so far... these are great suggestions and links!
I did manage to obtain the Vom Original zum modell type II book, and found some great pics (like the one attached).

Question about the attached pic, which shows all the plates welded on the sub.
You can easily see the welds between the individual plates.

1. If these plates are welded instead of a riveted outer casing (like on VIIC), would these plates be as thin?
2. Would they be subject to dramatic oil-canning like VIIC?
3. Would there be supporting bulkheads beneath each weld?
4. Would you see ALL these welds on a boat, or would they be ground down and smoothed?

SG · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 Feb , 2013, 11:06 »

Glenn,
I think most of the welds were subjected to some kind of smoothing as you can see in the closeups of boats taken at dry-docks (check out the pics of U1-2-6 http://www.mille-sabords.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=40300&st=0 -check also pics of U-16, 18, 24 though not IIa's). To have an idea of the oil canning check the 1st pic of U-11 (IIb) showing the hull above the waterline (same website): pretty subtle, evident but not dramatic.
Anyways these are only my two cents and there's many gentlemen here who could give u a better help..

GlennCauley · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 Feb , 2013, 11:13 »

That's a great picture... thanks!
Hmmmm... it's going to be 'interesting' trying to mimic that subtle texturing.

I wonder what my devious (read : lazy) lil mind can come up with.

At least it's easy to determine the pitch spacing of the interior supports... same as pitch of the flooding holes!

NZSnowman · « **Reply #10 on:** 28 Feb , 2013, 11:21 »

Quote from: GlennCauley on 28 Feb , 2013, 08:48

Thank you all so far... these are great suggestions and links!
I did manage to obtain the Vom Original zum modell type II book, and found some great pics (like the one attached).

Question about the attached pic, which shows all the plates welded on the sub.
You can easily see the welds between the individual plates.

1. If these plates are welded instead of a riveted outer casing (like on VIIC), would these plates be as thin?
2. Would they be subject to dramatic oil-canning like VIIC?
3. Would there be supporting bulkheads beneath each weld?
4. Would you see ALL these welds on a boat, or would they be ground down and smoothed?

Glenn

This boat is cover with anechoic tiles. You are not able to see any of the pressure hull.

This is U-11 she carry out sea trials in 1940 of a new anehoic tile, which was developed by the Kriegsmarine to reduce a submarines' acoustic signature. It was codenamed Alberich after the invisible sorcerer from Germanic Mythology.

GlennCauley · « **Reply #11 on:** 28 Feb , 2013, 11:22 »

Bloody hell... glad you pointed that out!!! a Homer "d'oh!" for that one

NZSnowman · « **Reply #12 on:** 28 Feb , 2013, 11:25 »

I was just thinking....she my grandmother to U-1308

U-11 was the 1st boat with Alberich and U-1308 was the last.

NZSnowman · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Feb , 2013, 11:29 »

Quote from: GlennCauley on 28 Feb , 2013, 11:22

Bloody hell... glad you pointed that out!!! a Homer "d'oh!" for that one

A very very rare boat..... Very likely a boat that no one has model before.

Rokket · « **Reply #14 on:** 07 Mar , 2013, 04:21 »

Good to see you back, and another uboat, Glenn! Hopefully the "bad" is not a motorcycle accident!

GlennCauley · « **Reply #15 on:** 07 Mar , 2013, 04:50 »

Unfortunately, it was... and a very bad, very serious one at that. 5 months in the hospital after a high-speed racing crash, involving many many broken bones (neck, spine, ribs, shoulder, etc etc etc)

SG · « **Reply #16 on:** 07 Mar , 2013, 11:40 »

Geez! Am happy that u recovered and that u're back again!

GlennCauley · « **Reply #17 on:** 07 Mar , 2013, 11:43 »

Thanks!
I'm not even close to recovered, though... I have a long road of physiotherapy ahead of me for a long time.
But at least I can still build models!

Rokket · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Apr , 2013, 02:14 »

Don't know why this didn't pop up as new, and why it just did today...hope your recovery is quick Glenn!

OldNoob · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Apr , 2013, 18:24 »

Quote from: NZSnowman on 28 Feb , 2013, 11:21

Glenn

This boat is cover with anechoic tiles. You are not able to see any of the pressure hull.

This is U-11 she carry out sea trials in 1940 of a new anehoic tile, which was developed by the Kriegsmarine to reduce a submarines' acoustic signature. It was codenamed Alberich after the invisible sorcerer from Germanic Mythology.

Fine example of that famous "ahead of it's time" German engineering.
I especially like the Ducted Prop. I guess an effort in lowering the cavitation sound.

OldNoob · « **Reply #20 on:** 13 Apr , 2013, 18:26 »

Quote from: GlennCauley on 07 Mar , 2013, 04:50

Unfortunately, it was... and a very bad, very serious one at that. 5 months in the hospital after a high-speed racing crash, involving many many broken bones (neck, spine, ribs, shoulder, etc etc etc)

OUCH!

OldNoob · « **Reply #21 on:** 13 Apr , 2013, 18:29 »

Quote from: GlennCauley on 07 Mar , 2013, 11:43

Thanks!
I'm not even close to recovered, though... I have a long road of physiotherapy ahead of me for a long time.
But at least I can still build models!

Model building is great for clearing the mind of current problems,, not so good for the back