SEA > TYPE IX
Fa330 gyro kite (Uboat IXD/IXD2)
SG:
Yes, the Turm 0 configuration. I had thought you were interested the late version with the watertight containers, which is the one filmed in that video.
--- Quote from: GlennCauley on 05 Oct , 2022, 15:51 ---
The video of the Fa330 assembly & launching seems to show a boat with a much smaller upper platform with a 'tacked on' launch pad.
--- End quote ---
The boat in the video sports a double-decker Turm (possibily turm II or IV configuration, i believe the latter), towards the end of the video (2:05) the railing of the lower wintergarden is visible and both the AA MG mounts are also visible (0:20) making it a double decker with standard upper AA gun platform (by AA gun platform I mean the round area of the after tower deck) dimensions i suppose. By gyro platform in my previous post i meant the launch pad for the Fa330. This has probably caused some confusion.
--- Quote from: GlennCauley on 05 Oct , 2022, 15:51 ---
It's the tower below that I am wondering about the dimensions of the tower railings... approximate diameter, etc.
--- End quote ---
The picture above shows a single AA-gun platform turm 0 configurated tower, (belonging to U532, similar to those of U 177 and U 181 before their conversion to turm IV). The diameters of the tower railings should be the standard diameters of a type IX turm 0. I'll look for them, plus I'll concentrate my photographic research on the gyro-equipped turm 0 boats :)
Cheers,
SG
PS/addendum: also check Dougie's "U-boat Type IX modifications & features" pages 88 and 115
dougie47:
Hi Glenn and SG,
Welcome back, Glenn, good you are working on a U-boat related model. Firstly some background. The Fa330 was tested on the IXC U 523 in the autumn of 1942. U 523 had a yellow training band at that time. These images show U 523 at that time -
U 523 had the Turm 0 tower at that time. U 523 was a Type IXC but due to size the kite was only used operationally on IXDs. SG's image of U 852 shows U 852 (IXD) during commissioning with a Turm II. The U 848 image shows this IXD boat with a Turm IV. I don't think any IXDs had the Fa330 with Turm 0. But you can go with U 523 as the photo shows how the platform was attached to the top of the railings.
In regard to railings, have a look at these two images of U 68 and U 128 respectively -
To answer questions 2 and 3, you may recall that the top horizontal bar on VIIs was thicker. On IXs it looks like the top horizontal bar was the same diameter as the middle horizontal and the verticals. In 1/16th scale these might be somthing like 3mm in diameter.
There was an additional horizontal bar near the bottom. The blue arrows on U 68 show either side of this additional bar. It looks like this bar was thinner than the rest but you can judge for yourself.
There was also another exception. One vertical railing on each side (pointed to in red) was much thicker at the bottom than the top. It starts off at the top the same diameter as the rest.
Note there was a one-piece wooden seat on either side, with the vertical railing bars going through the seat.
The hard part is working out what U 523 had inside the wintergarten platform. The boat was working in a test capacity so there was not a requirement for the 20mm anti-aircraft gun. They would need space to assemble the kite. It looks like the 20mm including the 20mm mount was removed from U 523. It looks like one crewman is standing on something that is located where the 20mm would normally be. It is likely to be equipment associated with the Fa330 but it is hard to tell what it is. The Fa330 may well have been stored inside U 523 without there being a waterproof container in this location.
Is your question 1 asking the diameter of the wintergarten railings (in other words the width from one side to another)? This would be about 220mm in 16th scale. Additionally the width of the wintergarten floor would be around 166mm in 16th scale.
Cheers,
Dougie
SG:
Excellent analysis Dougie! I was waiting for your input in this research topic as you've been researching much on type IX's and your post could really make the difference, as it did.
U 523 doesn't seem to have dedicated watertight containers for the Fa330 on her tower deck. The presence of a surface vessel in the picture, where a camera actually took the shots and possibly filmed the launch, makes me think of a support vessel providing the components or the already assembled Fa330 to be tested on the sub. Mine are only speculations though. No watertight containers can be seen in the pictures, thats for sure.
GlennCauley:
Thank you both very much!
The measurements that I took off the 1/72 U67/U153 kit (IXC early, Turm 0) gave me measurements that turned out to match nearly perfectly what Dougie provided. :D
I think that I will be making a base with the top part of railing of U523 without the watertight containers... i like the "welded on" launch pad.
@Dougie: By chance could you send me a link (or the photo) of the right-side view of U523 (the very first one you posted). A full side view like that will help me design the launch pad much better.
Thanks again, you two. :D <3
GlennC
--- Quote from: dougie47 on 08 Oct , 2022, 07:44 ---Hi Glenn and SG,
Welcome back, Glenn, good you are working on a U-boat related model. Firstly some background. The Fa330 was tested on the IXC U 523 in the autumn of 1942. U 523 had a yellow training band at that time. These images show U 523 at that time -
U 523 had the Turm 0 tower at that time. U 523 was a Type IXC but due to size the kite was only used operationally on IXDs. SG's image of U 852 shows U 852 (IXD) during commissioning with a Turm II. The U 848 image shows this IXD boat with a Turm IV. I don't think any IXDs had the Fa330 with Turm 0. But you can go with U 523 as the photo shows how the platform was attached to the top of the railings.
In regard to railings, have a look at these two images of U 68 and U 128 respectively -
To answer questions 2 and 3, you may recall that the top horizontal bar on VIIs was thicker. On IXs it looks like the top horizontal bar was the same diameter as the middle horizontal and the verticals. In 1/16th scale these might be somthing like 3mm in diameter.
There was an additional horizontal bar near the bottom. The blue arrows on U 68 show either side of this additional bar. It looks like this bar was thinner than the rest but you can judge for yourself.
There was also another exception. One vertical railing on each side (pointed to in red) was much thicker at the bottom than the top. It starts off at the top the same diameter as the rest.
Note there was a one-piece wooden seat on either side, with the vertical railing bars going through the seat.
The hard part is working out what U 523 had inside the wintergarten platform. The boat was working in a test capacity so there was not a requirement for the 20mm anti-aircraft gun. They would need space to assemble the kite. It looks like the 20mm including the 20mm mount was removed from U 523. It looks like one crewman is standing on something that is located where the 20mm would normally be. It is likely to be equipment associated with the Fa330 but it is hard to tell what it is. The Fa330 may well have been stored inside U 523 without there being a waterproof container in this location.
Is your question 1 asking the diameter of the wintergarten railings (in other words the width from one side to another)? This would be about 220mm in 16th scale. Additionally the width of the wintergarten floor would be around 166mm in 16th scale.
Cheers,
Dougie
--- End quote ---
GlennCauley:
One thing that I did notice from the first 2 photos that Dougie posted above... that being the height of the launch pad on the back of the tower.
Pic 1 (side): The launch pad is very low, seemingly resting on the top railing.
Pic 2 (rear side): The launch pad is much higher, seemingly level with the top of the tower upper bulwark (?).
My guess is this:
During assembly or cruising, the launch pad was low so the crew could place the Fa330 on it before flight; it was low enough to be partially protected from the wind by the higher forward bulwark. Then when they wanted to launch the Fa330, they would raise the platform up so the Fa330 was fully in the wind (not protected by the bulwark) which helped it launch.
Does that seem reasonable?
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