AMP - Accurate Model Parts
SEA => SUBS: Uboats => TYPE II => Topic started by: Greif on 21 Nov , 2009, 15:04
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Hello all, I have completed my U3 diorama. The scene depicts U3 loading supplies and a training torpedo prior to a training cruise. I won't bore everyone with the construction details, as I already covered most of them in my "build" post. I decided to only lightly weather the uboot. In every picture I have seen of pre-war uboots the are without exception very clean and uniform. Having spent 25 years in the U.S. Army, that does not surprise me! It was a fun build. I plan to do a full hull Type IIa, using AMP's detail set in the future. As always comments, both positive and negative are welcome.
Ernest
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More pictures!
Ernest
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Last set!
Ernest
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Congratulations on finishing the dio Ernest. Looking nice, and busy. Particularly the water looks good.
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Hi Ernest,
Very nicely done! The dio scene really brings your U 3 to life.
Cheers,
Dougie
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Congratulations on finishing the dio Ernest. Looking nice, and busy. Particularly the water looks good.
Thanks for the kind comments Siara. One of the main reasons I decided to build the a dockside scene was because I wanted to try my hand at modelling water. It turned out much better then I thought it would, and the technique was not that difficult. The uboot itself is not the last word in accuracy, partly due to a couple of mistakes I made while building and partly because I started the build before AMP's excellent detailing set came out. The next Type IIa I do will be more correct. However, I am by and large satisfied with the overall result.
Ernest
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Hi Ernest,
Very nicely done! The dio scene really brings your U 3 to life.
Cheers,
Dougie
Thanks Dougie! As I told Siara, my U3 is not the last word in accuracy, but I am pleased with how the diorama turned out. I plan to build another Type IIa, full hull using AMP's detail set. Alas, that will be a project for next building season as I have already set my building plans for this season. It will be built however! Again thank you for the kind words.
Ernest
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Hello Ernest,
Very nice work! I especially like the torpedo!
Regards,
Mr. Bill
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Very nice, a lot of good liveliness and action, pat yourself on the back!
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Hi Wink and Mr. Bill, thank you for the kinds words. I hope the brass nameplate comes this week so the diorama will be "officially" complete. ;)
Ernest
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Looks great! :)
I really like the water! And it
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endlich:
a waterline build!
wonderfull water! really looking like the grey tone we have at Kiel or at the north sea!
I like the "
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Looks great! :)
I really like the water! And it
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endlich:
a waterline build!
wonderfull water! really looking like the grey tone we have at Kiel or at the north sea!
I like the "
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Well done Greif! I'm glad to see you're back!
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Well done Greif! I'm glad to see you're back!
Thanks Bracco. Right now I am working on a 1:48 scale BF110D, so I won't have much to post until after christmas. If I get the present from my wife that I am hoping for that is! ;D
Ernest
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Hopefully you dropped the appropriate hints
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Hopefully you dropped the appropriate hints
Hi Wink, actually I gave here the exact name, discription, product number and webpage where the item can be ordered from. ;D We shall see if she comes through!
Ernest
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That should do it!
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That should do it!
One hopes! Nasty day here in Germany, how is the weather in oz?
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mild, about 25C..which is good, early heatwave last week, 35-40C, MUCH too early..and we did get a little rain the other day!
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Ermest, interesting that when WE (men) give a 'hint', we'll go to such lengths to make sure they know exactly what it is we have in mind, and oftetn what somes is something totally different because that wasn't what they wanted to see us with (or there was something else on sale that was "just as good" - my wife once couldn't understand why I wasn't thrilled with a German PzKfw IV Aus G when I had a commission to build a British Centurion 5).
Yet they'll give us a 'hint' so subtle that we aren't even aware we were hinted at, and it's a real big deal if we end up getting them the exact thing they wanted only a different colour.
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Ok, now on to the build.
I think it's beautiful Ernest. Lots of detail and some things I wasn't aware of, like the painting on the training torpedo. The deck looks really good too and the diorama itself is top notch.
Now, the flip side.
What you say about the pristine condition of the boats in 1938 makes a lot of sense - for the boat!
But some of the other parts of the dio wouldn't be like that.
For instance, the mooring line being handled by the one sailor at the bollard. Even a brand new dockline looks worn and dirty after the first 24 hours of use. Believe me, I've had new lines go in a matter of hours even in the calmest of waters, let alone the Baltic where the waves would be working the boat up and down over dirty old dock cleats and the tide would ebb and flow by at least a few feet every 12 hours. The only boats I've ever seen with such clean looking dock lines are the ones in a boat show.
The other thing is the edge of the breakwater that the boat is tied up to. Perhaps early in 1940, when Germany had captured French posrts and was building new facilities for both their own and the occupied harbours, there would be new looking concrete. But in 1938, they'd be using existing harbours where the concrete and stone had been in place and wearing for many years, decades even.
Any concrete and stone would be darkened with age and algae growth, and stained from what's on the surface of the water in the up and down of the waves and tide. The algae in particular at the high water mark would have the most discolouration. There's almost always chips and gouges in the edge too, where some boats have misjudged and hit the side with a bang, or storms have flung them against the side and a fender gone out of position. The edges are just never that precise unless newly built, and even then they show wear quickly.
Also, in German ports, they'd have to contend with winter ice and all the damage that can do.
So it makes sense, as you said, that a peacetime boat would look as you portray, but just the opposite for a peacetime wharfe.
One other thing, thinking of a tidal area, is that it would be VERY unusual to tie up so tight at high water. Unless there's a sailor stationed to loosen the lines every efw minutes, or at least every half hour, there should be a lot more slack in the lines.
There are two common methods to do this in tidal areas.
The first is to have the boat actually tied up to a floating beam or raft between it and the dockside. Much like the floating docks today. the dock is held aoff the edge by beams that are hinged at the land and the raft to pivot as the tide goes up and down. The distance off depends on the height of the tide and the height of normal waves for the location.
The other method is to have iron bars set vertically into the stone and extending from high water down under to the lowest tide. The boat is tied up to the iron rod, and slides up and down with the tide and waves.
Being tied up so closely to the stone edge would not only be impractical for tides, but it would create a very uncomfortable motion every time a waves rocks the boat and it jerks as it comes to the full extent of the rope holding it to the side.
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Another reason to weather the quayside more is to show more contrast between the boat and the surroundings. It's makes the boat stand out more, drawing attention to it which is what you want, and makes it obvious that the new appearance of the boat is intentional, and not just that didn't weather things.
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:D :D :D So true! In fairness to my spouse though, she has ALOT of other talents that are so good I will gladly overlook her blinspot when it comes to my models. A few years ago I asked for Revell's Type VII in 1/72 for chirstmas, I got Revell's 1/72 Fw200 Condor! ;D
Ernest
Ermest, interesting that when WE (men) give a 'hint', we'll go to such lengths to make sure they know exactly what it is we have in mind, and oftetn what somes is something totally different because that wasn't what they wanted to see us with (or there was something else on sale that was "just as good" - my wife once couldn't understand why I wasn't thrilled with a German PzKfw IV Aus G when I had a commission to build a British Centurion 5).
Yet they'll give us a 'hint' so subtle that we aren't even aware we were hinted at, and it's a real big deal if we end up getting them the exact thing they wanted only a different colour.
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Pat, thanks for pointing out where I came up short in the weathering department. I learned alot from your comments! Not living close to the sea and having no experience with ports, docks, sea movement, etc. your guidance has been very helpful. Weathering is an area I often don't do well in. I build mostly 1/48th scale aircraft, the least type of military machine effected by the elements, and the ones that ground crews generally keep in very good condition - with exceptions of course. An area I need to work on for sure.
Ernest
Ok, now on to the build.
I think it's beautiful Ernest. Lots of detail and some things I wasn't aware of, like the painting on the training torpedo. The deck looks really good too and the diorama itself is top notch.
Now, the flip side.
What you say about the pristine condition of the boats in 1938 makes a lot of sense - for the boat!
But some of the other parts of the dio wouldn't be like that.
For instance, the mooring line being handled by the one sailor at the bollard. Even a brand new dockline looks worn and dirty after the first 24 hours of use. Believe me, I've had new lines go in a matter of hours even in the calmest of waters, let alone the Baltic where the waves would be working the boat up and down over dirty old dock cleats and the tide would ebb and flow by at least a few feet every 12 hours. The only boats I've ever seen with such clean looking dock lines are the ones in a boat show.
The other thing is the edge of the breakwater that the boat is tied up to. Perhaps early in 1940, when Germany had captured French posrts and was building new facilities for both their own and the occupied harbours, there would be new looking concrete. But in 1938, they'd be using existing harbours where the concrete and stone had been in place and wearing for many years, decades even.
Any concrete and stone would be darkened with age and algae growth, and stained from what's on the surface of the water in the up and down of the waves and tide. The algae in particular at the high water mark would have the most discolouration. There's almost always chips and gouges in the edge too, where some boats have misjudged and hit the side with a bang, or storms have flung them against the side and a fender gone out of position. The edges are just never that precise unless newly built, and even then they show wear quickly.
Also, in German ports, they'd have to contend with winter ice and all the damage that can do.
So it makes sense, as you said, that a peacetime boat would look as you portray, but just the opposite for a peacetime wharfe.
One other thing, thinking of a tidal area, is that it would be VERY unusual to tie up so tight at high water. Unless there's a sailor stationed to loosen the lines every efw minutes, or at least every half hour, there should be a lot more slack in the lines.
There are two common methods to do this in tidal areas.
The first is to have the boat actually tied up to a floating beam or raft between it and the dockside. Much like the floating docks today. the dock is held aoff the edge by beams that are hinged at the land and the raft to pivot as the tide goes up and down. The distance off depends on the height of the tide and the height of normal waves for the location.
The other method is to have iron bars set vertically into the stone and extending from high water down under to the lowest tide. The boat is tied up to the iron rod, and slides up and down with the tide and waves.
Being tied up so closely to the stone edge would not only be impractical for tides, but it would create a very uncomfortable motion every time a waves rocks the boat and it jerks as it comes to the full extent of the rope holding it to the side.
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You're welcome Ernest.
Even though I live far from the ocean also, every chance I get I'm down at a dockyard somewhere. Portsmouth Navy Yard, Philadelphia Navy Yard, Groton, Norfolk, Halifax, and of course all sorts of civilian ports as well. One time I spent 10 fourteen hour days at the docks for a tall ship rendezvous. I think my wife was happy when the ships left.
And of course, even the lakes where I spend even more time, have weathering patterns to the shoreline, they're just a little different.
Back to the high water mark, in salt water, you'll see a distinct horizontal line at the point where the tide is highest. Above that line is discoloration, usually an olive green so dark it almost looks black, fading upwards for about 1/2 meter as the algae that creates it thins out. Since your dio has to be at high tide (there's not much seawall above the water, so it also has to be a very sheltered area, perhaps in a drydock) then that's what you need on the sides.
OIf it's in a dry dock, in addition to the rope fenders typically used by the Kriegsmarine, there might also be floating baulks between the boat and the wall, to protect the boat against abrassion. This was merely a big piece of wood, sometimes VERY aged, with holes drilled through each end so that it can be suspended by ropes to stay between the boat and the wall. Usually, it would be outboard of the fenders, so that the fenders would be what rubs against the wood.
As I said, your dio would pretty much have to be a dry dock for the water to be so high (waves would toss a boat OVER such a low seawall otherwise) and for the dock lines to be so short (not expecting waves or tide).
You could probably go online and find the typical tidal range for say Kiel or Hamburg, but I'd guess in that part of the world we'd be looking at around 6-10 feet. And that would be approx. every 12 hours.
Even on Lake Ontario, where my boat is, the water depth can change by up to 3 feet depending on which way the wind blows, so there always has to be slack in the dock lines.
There are particular ways of tying them up to build in that slack and still not drift too far from shore. Again, go to the internet, google "docking" and specifically look for what are called bow lines, stern lines and spring lines.
Nostly though, you'll see that a cleat or bollard on the boat is not directly across from the corresponding cleat or bollard on the dock. You want to have a sharp angle between them, so that the dock line is at an angle of perhaps 30 degrees. This allows movement with the waves. There's usually a minimum of 3 lines, 1 stern, 1 bow and one spring line. Most skippers will also put another spring line from the opposite end of the boat. sometimes criss-crossing in the middle if it's a small boat (but that wouldn't apply to a U-boat).
The bow and stern lines will probably run forward from the bow and backwards from the stern to again get that sharp angle to the dock.
If only I knew how to draw on this forum or attach drawings, I could show you. But the internet should have something under seamanship course.