Question about lower hull weathering from a newcomer

[kklee6]

Hi, everyone.

I am new here since I have only recently discovered this forum when I placed order of some U-boat items in AMP (yeah, I am going to start my huge project of building the revell 1:72 U-boat and maybe thinking of converting it to R/C too).

I have recently finished, or almost finished building my 1st sub model.  It's a Nichimo 1:200 I-19 sub.
I did a little weatherng by washing the upper hull with some darker paint but lower dull red hull still looks too 'clean' to me.  I have learnt from some old posts here that maybe I can add a filter to the lower hull.
Any suggestion of what filter color should I use?  Any other suggestion of weathering a dull red hull in a sub would also be appreciated.

Thanks.
KK

[NZSnowman]

Welcome to AMP.

Your I-19 looks great! What is the long bump in front of the CT for?

[Siara]

Welcome to AMP KK.
Nice sub.
For lower part of the hull i would use different shades of red, pink, white, grey, and hue of green.
Are you familiar with the hairspray technique?

Related articles:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/527528/message/1176229975/Whitewash

http://plastic-bbq.blogspot.com/2009/05/playing-around-with-hairspray-technique.html

http://migjimenez.blogspot.com/2009/11/hairspray-technique-vol1.html

[Greif]

Hello and welcome to the forum kklee6!  I agree with Simon, your I-19 is a nice build.  To answer your question, I need to explain the differences between filters and washes.  Forgive me if you already know this.  A filter is used to subtly alter the tone of the base color, while a wash is used to bring out detail by creating fake shadows.  Fliters are best applied to matt surfaces; washes work best when applied to gloss surfaces.  If your goal is to bring out detail and give the hull more of a 3D look, then a wash is the best technique.  Both dark green and black work well on red.  If you have filters, like the ones from MIG Productions for example, and are willing to do a bit more work you could use the filter to "fade" the paint, giving it a worn look.  After that you could then apply a wash to bring out the detail.  The neat thing here is that filters give the model a satin gloss finish which is critical to applying washes effectively.  A reddish-brown colored filter would work well on a red hull.

Ernest  

[kklee6]

Thank you for all of your compliments, especially from Siara. I have become a big fan of yours after reading your U-552 building blog.

Actually, I would like to reproduce some sort of paint fading effect ,as mentioned by Greif, due to submerging in salty sea-water.  I also remember Siara's mentioning about using filter to simulate this effect in his blog.  That is why I asked about the use of filter.  However, those filters are not locally available.   I have to order them online or to explore other means to do the weathering.  I believe I will follow the links to explore different methods.  Thank you very much.


Simon, the bump was for launching the reconnaissance seaplane "Glen" aboard the sub I-19.
The Nichimo kit comes with a tiny seaplane but I have not yet started building it.

During WWII, Japanese subs, like I-400s, also carried fighters and bombers.  

[kklee6]

a few more photos

It works  

[Siara]

I have been using MIG-s filters, aswell as oils from Abtailung range for the while now, and my conclusion is- get the oils, and turpentine from MIG, and make your own filters.
It will be cheaper, and it will allow you to make your own color.

[Don in Cincinnati]

I have been using MIG-s filters, aswell as oils from Abtailung range for the while now, and my conclusion is- get the oils, and turpentine from MIG, and make your own filters.
It will be cheaper, and it will allow you to make your own color.

Siara: A question about MIG filters. I seem to remember reading somewhere that some (All) of them are only for use on acrylic paint. Is this so?

Don

[kklee6]

I have discovered that those filters, washes and oils are available locally,
so I will experiment with the filters and the hair-spray techniques (as recommended by Siara) to weather the lower hull of my boat.

As for applying filters, it is suggested, in MIG's web, that a uniform thin layer should be applied on the top of base color.  Is there any other techniques or skills that I should be aware of? 
Sorry for asking too many questions.  This is my first attempt to use filters.

Regards,
KK

[Greif]

Hi KK, you want to apply filters to a matt painted surface; most acyrlic paints used by modellers are matt when sprayed.  If the surface is gloss, semi-gloss, or satin, spray it first with a matt varnish - there are a lot on the market and they all work well.  It you painted you model with acrylics I recommend you use an acrylic-based matt varnish.  Lacquer-based varnishes sometimes react poorly when sprayed over acyrlic finishes.  Once you have your matt finish it is important to apply filters with a damp brush that will not leave a pool of filter at the beginning or end of a brush stroke.  Filter coats should be very light as you can build them up with successive coats to achieve the desired effect.  Allow the filter to completely dry between coats; you can speed up drying with a blow dryer set to low power.  Thats it, not hard really, just go slow and look at each coat to see if it is giving you the look you want.  One of the hardest things about weathering is knowing when to stop, and it is easy to overdo it.  Don't ask me how I know this. 

Ernest       

I have discovered that those filters, washes and oils are available locally,
so I will experiment with the filters and the hair-spray techniques (as recommended by Siara) to weather the lower hull of my boat.

As for applying filters, it is suggested, in MIG's web, that a uniform thin layer should be applied on the top of base color.  Is there any other techniques or skills that I should be aware of? 
Sorry for asking too many questions.  This is my first attempt to use filters.

Regards,
KK

[kklee6]

Greif, thank you sooo... much for your detailed explanation.

I used Gunze hull red, which is Lacquer-based satin paint, for the lower hull, so I believe I could spray a acrylic or lacquer matt varnish on top of it.  Once I get the filters, I will give it a try.

BTW, I am thinking of getting P241 or P242.  Any comments?

KK

[Greif]

Hi KK, I have never used a filter over red before, so take this for what it is worth.  I think P242 would give you a good fading effect.  However, I recommend trying it out on a piece of scrap, sprayed the same color as you hull, first.  That way you can both confirm the filter is in fact the shade/color you need to do the job and you can practice a bit.

You are correct that you can chose either a lacquer or acrylic based matt varnish to spray the hull with.  When using different paints a safe order for them to be sprayed is:  Lacquers, enamels, acrylics.  A general rule when airbrushing different types of paint to follow is:  "Acrylic over enamel/lacquer based paints nearly foolproof, never enemal/lacquer over acrylic." 

Ernest

Greif, thank you sooo... much for your detailed explanation.

I used Gunze hull red, which is Lacquer-based satin paint, for the lower hull, so I believe I could spray a acrylic or lacquer matt varnish on top of it.  Once I get the filters, I will give it a try.

BTW, I am thinking of getting P241 or P242.  Any comments?

KK

[Siara]

Not much to be added, after good explanation by Ernest.
I always, almost exclusively use acrylics for the base coat, as it gives strong base to work with. Do not forget to use the primer first tho!
I sometimes use enamels over the acrylics, but i first make sure the acrylic coat is 100 % dry.
Its good to experiment on the bit of scrap plastic first, as different brands sometimes interact with each other, and its hard to predict the reaction. Usually it looks more scary than it actually is.
I have never had problems with oils, or MIG filters (by saying MIG filters i mean SIM Industries filters, which are marked as MIG product).

You have to be carefull with the varnish tho, as some of the brands are difficoult to work with under certain humidity conditions, and can turn milky.
Im using Tamiya acrylic varnish, and Hannants one with good effect.

Good luck.

[kklee6]

Im using Tamiya acrylic varnish, and Hannants one with good effect.

Good luck.

Siara, thanks for your additional advice.
By Tamiya acrylic varnish, are you referring to X21 or X22?

X21 looks very very "matt" to me.

BTW, you mentioned about the "hair-spray" technique.  Can I use any hair-spray, or is there any hair-spray which does not work?

Many thanks.
KK

[Siara]

You can use any hairspray on the market.
For best results its good to "decan" the hairspray, and use the airbrush to lay the hairspray layer.
It allows for nice, and controllable aplication. The thicker the hairspray layer- the bigger the chips will become.
To decan the hairspray, just spray it into the glass (any kitchen glass) covering the top with the palm of your hand.

By Tamiya acrylic varnish, are you referring to X21 or X22?

Thats right- one is the gloss varnish, and the other is the matt agent- which is added to X21 to dull the shine. X22 its not used on its own.