VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing

[NZSnowman]

HD in your mail box + enigma
 

Thanks! I just found them in my Junk E-mail folder Not sure why its just started putting your email in my Junk E-mail folder

[NZSnowman]

Hi Maciek, Rokket & Pat

Going way back to our converse about the 'dynamic pressure' inlets for the speedometer in February of this year. http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=106.msg4505#msg4505

Found this picture of U-543, over at subsim.com from dachshund

[TRM]

Simon,

going back a couple of days only, the "Steam heating system inlet, Fuel oil inlet & Engine lubricating oil inlet"....found couple of good pics I think:




Cheers!

[Pat]

Simon, interesting info that the lining inside the torpedo tubes is copper, and that would be something visible in mine when the shutters are open.

It makes sense though, since copper is poisonous to most marine life and the basis for just about all modern antifouling (under the waterline) paints is copper.  (They used to also use aluminum, but that was banned about 10 years ago). 

The tubes would be something very hard to clean and maintain, since they can't run a cleaning rod through them like they could a big gun unless the boat was drydocked, so they'd want to make them out of something that marine life would NOT cling to.

[NZSnowman]

Simon,

going back a couple of days only, the "Steam heating system inlet, Fuel oil inlet & Engine lubricating oil inlet"....found couple of good pics I think:


Cheers!

Thanks T! They are great!!

Spend six hours looking at piping within U-995 trying to found the Steam heating inlet in the pressure hull or Steam piping, without any luck and just going crazy!!!! I am starting to think that they remove this system from the Type VIIC/41 and maybe the late war Type VIIC.

Does anyone know if the Steam heating system was remove from the Type VIIC/41 and maybe the late war Type VIIC?

[NZSnowman]

Thanks everone for your help and pictures about the decking!

I was able to work out from all the pictures the hatches location etc... I was also able to find the pressure hull opening within U-995. So I had the start and end of the piping, I just have to best guess the bit in between. I place a bronze pipe end at the inlet. The piping on the left is for the fuel oil and the one on the right is for the Engine lubricating Oil.

I have not be able so far to workout the piping for the Steam heating system


Engine lubricating oil & fuel oil piping.

[Pat]

Hi Maciek, Rokket & Pat

Going way back to our converse about the 'dynamic pressure' inlets for the speedometer in February of this year. http://models.rokket.biz/index.php?topic=106.msg4505#msg4505

Found this picture of U-543, over at subsim.com from dachshund

I remember those conversations.  The picture is a bit hard to descipher upside down, but are you talking about the two little clamshells, one on each side of the stem?  Or maybe they're tubes, the pic is kind of dark, 

Anyway, they look like they could be inlets for water speed but I'm still hesitant on that diagnosis.

The same objections as before still apply, that in rough weather, they'd give false readings when the bow cam out of the water on high waves. 

Since then, I also wondered about their accuracy at different depths.  Since they'd have to work on pressure, the speed reading would differe depending on depth.  That doesn't seem workable.  A paddle-whell type knotmeter still makes more sense.

Also, while those are definitely there for a purpose, they don't seem to be standard since most pictures I've seen, there definitely isn't something like that in that location.

[Pepper-mint]

Thanks! I just found them in my Junk E-mail folder Not sure why its just started putting your email in my Junk E-mail folder

You're welcome 

maybe your fire wall or anti virus... From time to time check your junk mail folder 

[Rokket]

copper tubes - interesting. Gatos were bronze. In fact, heaps of the piping was bronze, but painted, you assume steel.

[NZSnowman]

copper tubes - interesting. Gatos were bronze. In fact, heaps of the piping was bronze, but painted, you assume steel.

I just guess copper, bronze sound good to me 

[SnakeDoc]

Hi Simon

Do you know why the aft and bow inside torpedo tube look different? 

That's interesting question.

I have done some research and my conclusions are as follows:
The aft tube on U-995 is original one, the forward, stb lower one is modified by Norwegian Navy
to launch some 533mm postwar torpedoes.
The modification was something like this on Type 205 U-Boot - U-9

(source: http://7ufl.forumieren.com/geschichte-nach-dem-2weltkrieg-f43/u-9-t436.htm)

I think, that the aft one is original comparing it to these visible on war time photos:


(source: "Grey Wolves of  the sea, german U-boat type VII", Heinz J. Nowarra)


(source: "The story of the U-505", Museum of science and industry, Chicago)


(source: "Die Deutsche Kriegsmarine 1935-1945", vol. 3, Siegfried Breyer, Gerhard Koop)

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/7851/u534z.jpg


(source: uboataces.com)


(source: uboatarchive.net, visible tube, two guides for piston and piston itself)

The modification of the tube on U-995 looks like there was removed some inner
tube lining and added four guidndes - compare these photos (source: U-995.com)



The torpedo in tube seems like G7a type, but it can be also some post-war type.
There is visible that torpedo is attached to these guidnes - so it can not be
original/combat fittnes and I would suggest not myself by this tube.

By the way - the piston that is placed near the aft torpedo tube on U-995 also looks like
not original one.

Also during your research have you come across any information about the oil lines? I am trying to find out what the tubing is made of. On the outer torpedo tube at Laboe Naval Memorial it show copper tubings, but I unsure if it is original.

According to U-231 and U-575 survivors interrogation report (http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-231INT.htm,
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-575INT.htm) the tubes were initially made of bronze (and manganese -
see http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-257INT.htm).

But due to shortage of cooper in Germany later tubes were made of steel coated
with anti-corrosion preparation to prevent rusting. See:
U-257 survivors interrogation report - http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-257INT.htm
U-536 survivors interrogation report - http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-536INT.htm
U-172 survivors interrogation report - http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-172INT.htm
U-177 survivors interrogation report - http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-177INT.htm
U-1059 survivors interrogation report - http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-1059INT.htm

Looking at the dates of these reports, it seems that steel tubes were common practise sinse 1944,
but there are mentions, that they begin using steel year before.


--
Regards
Maciek

[SnakeDoc]

I started a Wikipedia page today on U-1308. It in no way finish, will slowing keep updating it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_submarine_U-1308

Great idea, thanks for your work, Simon.

--
Regards
Maciek

[SnakeDoc]

Hi Pat

Anyway, they look like they could be inlets for water speed but I'm still hesitant on that diagnosis.

Well, I don't know how to convince you.
HMS Graph British report on U-570 (http://uboatarchive.net/U-570BritishReport.htm) says it is pitometer type log.
ONI report on U-570  (http://uboatarchive.net/U-570ONIReport.htm) says the same.
Design study on IXC type (http://uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXC.htm) also.
http://u-historia.com/uhistoria/tecnico/articulos/corredera/corredera.htm
(you can use Google Translator)

The same objections as before still apply, that in rough weather, they'd give false readings when the bow cam out of the water on high waves.  

Yes, that's right, the log could be not accurate on high seas. I think that german designers relized it.
This log type except above disadvantage also advantage - it is simpler and less fragile than  paddle-wheel one
(ie depth charges and running aground).

Since then, I also wondered about their accuracy at different depths.  Since they'd have to work on pressure, the speed reading would differe depending on depth.  That doesn't seem workable.  A paddle-whell type knotmeter still makes more sense.

What?? Pitometer type log operating principle is differential pressure between dyniamic pressure
obtained from bow nozzles and static pressure obtainted from midship nozzles. That's why it is independent from depth.

Also, while those are definitely there for a purpose, they don't seem to be standard since most pictures I've seen, there definitely isn't something like that in that location.

I think that the way how bow nozzles were installed was dependent from shipyard (similary as flooding holes) - sometimes
it was installed under the casing, covered by some grid, sometimes it was derived outside...

Did you see any paddle-wheel type log on german u-boats?

--
Regards
Maciek

[NZSnowman]

Also, while those are definitely there for a purpose, they don't seem to be standard since most pictures I've seen, there definitely isn't something like that in that location.

I think that the way how bow nozzles were installed was dependent from shipyard (similary as flooding holes) - sometimes
it was installed under the casing, covered by some grid, sometimes it was derived outside...

--
Regards
Maciek

On this point I am starting to notic the nozzle on Type IX plans


From a Type IXC


From a Type IXC/40

[NZSnowman]

Hi Maciek

Thanks again for your help!!!! I am glad that you also noticed the different inside of the tube, as I thought I was going crazy

I will add this change to the U-995 list

Simon