Author Topic: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing  (Read 512055 times)

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Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #645 on: 27 Oct , 2010, 11:20 »
Hi Maciek & Pat

Thanks both for all your help with the fuel oil :) :)

Maciek, a great report, where do you keep finding there fantastic little reports from? I keep thinking I seen them all?

The reason why I was asking about the colour of the fuel oil was, yesterday while studying the general layout of the Senior Raters section of the Type VII

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #646 on: 31 Oct , 2010, 01:12 »
Does anyone know what was inside the

Offline Pat

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #647 on: 31 Oct , 2010, 08:49 »
Beyond the obvious, that there's a main battery switch there, no.  I know more about the inside of a U-boat with great thanks to your drawings than from any other source.

What I can say is that a modern surface boat usually has a battery switch that isolates certain batteries (or in the case of a U-boat, would isolate entire banks of batteries) so that you can draw power from one battery while the other(s) are either being serviced, charged or restricted to other purposes.

For instance, on my boat, I'll usually start/run the engine with one battery while I reserve the other battery for the electronics.  The reason for that is that it ensures that if I run down a battery through electronics, I'll have a freshly charged battery available still for emergency starting/navigating.distress call.  On alternate days, I switch which battery does which job so that one is always being charged.

The main switch can also join ALL batteries together at once for a heavy use (off, battery one, all, battery two) but you usually wouldn't run both together since the fresher battery will always hog the charge from the alternator (magneto on a sub?) and not distribute it evenly over both batteries.

The 'off' position is used when the boat is in port and not being used because there is a tendency for boats (and this would be worse for a steel-hulled boat) of power leakage and galvanic action with anything in the water, so you turn the batteries off when not needed to minimize this risk.

That's also the reason for the zincs on the aft dive planes, rudders and prop shaft supports that we talked about in a past exchange.

I'd guess that the main switch on a U-boat would function in a similar way but be more complex since there are many more batteries involved and the systems are more critical.  Probably it would have more settings and more possible ways of hooking up the batteries together?

One more thing is that every battery switch I've ever seen on a boat has always been a fire-engine red.  Don't know if that would necessarily be the case with WWII U-boats, but it seems likely.

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #648 on: 31 Oct , 2010, 18:18 »
Beyond the obvious, that there's a main battery switch there, no.  I know more about the inside of a U-boat with great thanks to your drawings than from any other source.

What I can say is that a modern surface boat usually has a battery switch that isolates certain batteries (or in the case of a U-boat, would isolate entire banks of batteries) so that you can draw power from one battery while the other(s) are either being serviced, charged or restricted to other purposes.

For instance, on my boat, I'll usually start/run the engine with one battery while I reserve the other battery for the electronics.  The reason for that is that it ensures that if I run down a battery through electronics, I'll have a freshly charged battery available still for emergency starting/navigating.distress call.  On alternate days, I switch which battery does which job so that one is always being charged.

The main switch can also join ALL batteries together at once for a heavy use (off, battery one, all, battery two) but you usually wouldn't run both together since the fresher battery will always hog the charge from the alternator (magneto on a sub?) and not distribute it evenly over both batteries.

The 'off' position is used when the boat is in port and not being used because there is a tendency for boats (and this would be worse for a steel-hulled boat) of power leakage and galvanic action with anything in the water, so you turn the batteries off when not needed to minimize this risk.

That's also the reason for the zincs on the aft dive planes, rudders and prop shaft supports that we talked about in a past exchange.

I'd guess that the main switch on a U-boat would function in a similar way but be more complex since there are many more batteries involved and the systems are more critical.  Probably it would have more settings and more possible ways of hooking up the batteries together?

One more thing is that every battery switch I've ever seen on a boat has always been a fire-engine red.  Don't know if that would necessarily be the case with WWII U-boats, but it seems likely.

Thanks Pat, all great information!! :) :) Will help a lot!! I hope I am able to get one picture from the inside. It will drive me crazy not knowing that inside for my drawing. It extremely important to me, to get the drawing accurate. That why I put in the time to make the smallest detail correct, like the German Kriegsmarine china tableware set ;D, the ship clock, all the piping or the framing and ribbing etc

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #649 on: 31 Oct , 2010, 18:23 »
I can not imagine that these taps are the original German taps, does anyone know what they would look like? (Or are they the original tap?)

Thanks, Simon.


Picture from http://www.u-historia.com/

« Last Edit: 31 Oct , 2010, 21:24 by NZSnowman »

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #650 on: 01 Nov , 2010, 14:24 »
Does anyone have "Vom Original zum Modell, Uboottyp VII C" by Fritz K

Offline dougie47

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #651 on: 01 Nov , 2010, 15:04 »
Hi Simon,

"Vom Original zum Modell, Uboottyp VII C" by Fritz K

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #652 on: 01 Nov , 2010, 16:51 »
Hi Dougie.

Yes I have seen all the plans and a few extra ones. I was trying to found a little about the history of these plans. How they were found and redrawn. I believe they were found sometime after the war (60

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #653 on: 01 Nov , 2010, 20:15 »
A small update today for the outlets valves for Diving Tank 3. I found this picture from http://www.u-boot-zentrale.de/eng/tower.htm with a wire net to protect against foreign bodies entering the tank.


Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #654 on: 01 Nov , 2010, 21:28 »
Why did they change from bronze propellers to steel propellers from about January 1942 ???

Edit
Was it because of bronze shortage ???

I've spent a couple of hours looking for any advantages of stainless steel propellors over bronze and so far haven't found much.  It seems that bronze is a much better material for boat propellors than stainless steel, being cheaper, lighter, less brittle, easier to repair and having a lower friction coefficient.

So the only thing left that makes sense would be a shortage of bronze midway through the war.  Since England is known for large deposits of tin even since prehistoric times, it was likely a lack of tin that was the problem.  Tin is alloyed with copper to make bronze.

I can verify that bronze is better.  About 15 years ago, my propellor, which is bronze, got nicked by hitting a floating tire with a steel wheel inside.  I was able to get the propellor repaired quite easily.  I've been told that with similar damage to a stainless steel propellor it would have been a write-off.

If you're building a boat with a bronze propellor, the colour should be flat bronze, almost, but not quite oxidized to a pale green.  Think of the green of copper roofs but not so bright and mixed with a light brown.  Boat propellors do not go as dark as bronze statues but maintain a slight beige-orange-yellow hue in with the green.

If modelling a stainless steel propellor, it should be silver but shinier than a silver coin.  Almost, but not quite, mirror-like.  Think of the colour of a kitchen knife and almost as shiny.  Stainless steel props do not go flat unless in extremely sandy conditions.

Had to update U-1308 propellers to the correct time period (sad as I like the look of the bronze propellers better :'( ).

Pat, was searching the net for pictures today for stainless steel propellers, your right about the stainless steel keeping there colours. Also found this picture, WOW! :o That one big U-Boat  ;D ;)



   


Offline SnakeDoc

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #655 on: 02 Nov , 2010, 10:41 »
Hi Simon

Does anyone know what was inside the

Offline Greif

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #656 on: 02 Nov , 2010, 11:56 »
Does anyone know what was inside the

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #657 on: 02 Nov , 2010, 12:59 »
That would be wonderful, thanks.

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #658 on: 04 Nov , 2010, 20:13 »
I have just found a significant error on Plan 11c of ‘Fritz Köhl & Axel Niestle U-Boat Type VIIC plans’ with the measurements of the search periscope. They list a total length of the search periscope as 9300 mm it should be 7825.5 mm, a huge different!! Any of my drawing with the search periscope previous to this date will be incorrect >:(

For modelling, if you want to extended your periscopes to there maximum used these figures:

Attack periscope - bottom of keel to top of periscope = 14663 mm (204 mm at 1:72 scale)
Search periscope - bottom of keel to top of periscope = 11999 mm (167 mm at 1:72 scale)

If a error like this could happen; it may help to example how the other error I have found with the high/low air lines happen.

.... I was trying to found a little about the history of these plans. How they were found and redrawn. I believe they were found sometime after the war (60’s  ???) and redrawn during the 80’s and 90’s. The reason why I am after this information is, over the last two or three weeks I been doing a lot of research on the high/low air lines that run under the deck but outside the pressure hull. I have looked at numerous sets of plans, schematises drawing and photographs and this morning I came to the conclusion that the air lines drawn on these set of plans are almost useless. They are inaccurate, and most lines are absent, so air lines are drawn in area there are no hull openings or just does not make sense to put them there.
I was trying to found how the errors happen. Did it happen while redrawing, or are the errors on the original plans? I mostly believe the errors happen while redrawing. Likely the original plans were very hard to read and a few air lines were missed or so lines were assume to be air lines but were in fact, other systems.

Offline Pat

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #659 on: 04 Nov , 2010, 21:14 »
Simon, those measurements for the periscopes don't seem right.

When you look at the top of the CT, the tops of both persicopes in their 'down' position are level with each other.  If that's the case, then they can't be different if they both go to the keel.

That might be the correct length for each tube, but only if the search periscope doesn't go all the way to the keel.  (In point of fact, I don't think it does go down as far.)