Author Topic: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing  (Read 512527 times)

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TRM

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #600 on: 04 Sep , 2010, 16:38 »
Great news everyone is fine. That is some heavy duty movement to shift a road 3m!!!!!  At least was it in the right direction, giving more frontage to the property. ;)

You prompted me to google your homeland.... :o!  Simply amazing corner of the world there.  I think I will add it to my bucket list of places to go.

 We "got lucky" with Evan, up here.  Thought I was going to get at least what we call a bad Nor' Easta' (north eastern driving storm with a crappy MA accent)....then nothing.  little rain and done.  The news was scaring everybody for a week we were going to get slammed.  Came in the night!  Sunny yesterday and sunny today.

Enjoy the skiing!

Cheers!


Offline SnakeDoc

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #601 on: 12 Sep , 2010, 14:38 »
Hi Simon

Does anyone have and seen a picture of the High pressure air bottles under the deck ???

Maybe this helps:
http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/xax1hd_uboot-767_tech
around 5,56 min.

--
Regards
Maciek

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #602 on: 12 Sep , 2010, 15:49 »
A very big thinks Maciek! :) :) I love to look at any pictures of the internal parts of the Type VII

Offline SnakeDoc

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #603 on: 13 Sep , 2010, 02:19 »
Hi Simon

Group A high pressure air bottles are seated much higher under the deck than I imagine. It looks like the drawing in David Westwood book was correct. Maybe seating the bottles this way was to let the water drain to the bottom of the bottle ???

I'm quite sure, that is for that reason - air, when compressed is heating up. Then, when is cooling down, the water vapor condenses.
I suppose, that there, in the lowest point of bottle, should be even some draining valve.

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Maciek

Offline Rokket

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #604 on: 13 Sep , 2010, 16:07 »
Yes, BUT...I just found out that the USN Gatos had a 4-stage air compressor (well, 2 twins). This is the 3,000 pound air system (min 1500psi, max 4500).

They had chilling (well, cooling) at each stage so it wasn't roasting and wet. (One of the stages, I THINK the first, or maybe the 4th, was in the oil sump tray! To save space and have the oil (presumably) help transfer heat.

SO, it is possible there was a roughly similar (at least in overall function: "cool") to these babies...
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Offline Pat

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #605 on: 13 Sep , 2010, 17:49 »
Interesting bit of info Wink.  I can't figure out why the pump would be IN the oil sump though.  It wouldn't transfer that much heat that way, and it makes it harder to work on if there are repairs needed.

Is the hi-press air used in the inhabitable parts of the boat too, just going through a regulator to step down the pressure?  The reason why I'm wondering is that if there was a problem and oil got sucked into the lines, then it could result in vapourized oil in the air which couldn't be healthy.

Back to the German practice, if the compressed air WAS cooled during the process to take out water, what other reason would there be to have the tanks at such an angle?

Offline SnakeDoc

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #606 on: 14 Sep , 2010, 03:16 »
Well, related to Type IXC Design Study, section S49  -Compressed Air Plant description, both compressors were
connected to high pressure air installation via water separators and air filters.
http://uboatarchive.net/DesignStudiesTypeIXC.htm

Previous in this thread were attached photos of air flasks under the upper deck of Gato submarine - there were
even more inclined. Unfortunately, I was not able to find more detailed view.
I suppose, that despite of coolers and water separators, during each air recharging cycle
some vapor condensated. During each patrol there were many recharging cycles and the amount
of water in air flasks were significant, and some drain installation were necessery.

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Maciek

Offline Pat

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #607 on: 14 Sep , 2010, 17:35 »
I agree with you about all the recharging cycles during an patrol SnakeDoc.  And most diesel engines have water separators in the fuel line because the diurnal chilling causes any water in the air inside the fuel tank to condense and contaminate the fuel, so why not something similar with the boat diving into cold water and then surfacing into warm air?

At one time long ago, I drove a transport truck with air brakes, and it was SOP to bleed the water out of the air tanks every morning before starting up the engine.  I'm sure there must have been water filters/separators somewhere in the hi-press air lines of the truck, but there was still a concern to get any accumulation out of the tanks. 

So back in the early days of U-boats, it makes even more sense that they wouldn't have trusted the technology to get all the water out and would have some way of draining it just in case.

Offline Rokket

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #608 on: 18 Sep , 2010, 03:07 »
Pat - I KNOW it sounds strange, or like I have heard from polluted sources or not understood, but I was standing in the pump room touching the #2 compressor as the guy who rebuilt it explained everything. The sump seems an odd place, but it saved space. Sure, a pain to get to for repair, but not all that bad and they hoped repair wouldn't be nec in the field. The oil made an excellent temp transfer, increasing efficiency.

All the "strange" things this guy has encountered on fleetboats have proven to be well-reasoned to his astonishment.

I honestly don't know about il/water filtration, I'm assuming there was some, I only mentioned the cooling because it related and would certainly help.

There were 5 Fleetboat air systems:

1 - 3000lb main (not directly tied to anything)
2 - 600lb Ballast blow and torpedo firing (comes from 3000 reduced)
3 - 225lb service air (run tools at 100psi, blow various small tanks) (comes from 3000 reduced)
4 - 10lb (finish blowing ballast) (independent compressor)
5 - salvage air (salvage teams could tie in and blow water from a sunken boat or flooded compartments)

That's all I know!

Maciek - The Gato inclined flasks I have seen too, they seem to be inclined ONLY to conform to the hull casing (the "V" of the bow) - and were used for firing torps.
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Von Hilde

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #609 on: 18 Sep , 2010, 04:25 »
actually it prevents the boat from steering off a straight line:
given that the pressure is different on top and bottom of the screw, it gives the stern the tendency to steer to the right with a clockwise rotation of the screw.
usefull when you want to bring the stern to the quay........

  the torque is reffered to as, P factor. This is also applied to aircraft. Dual props that are counter rotating cancel out this. On a single engine aircraft it is nessissary to counter this effect, by applying rudder in the direction of the rotation of the prop as the torque is in the opposie direction of the rotation and has the tendency to direct the heading in that direction

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #610 on: 21 Sep , 2010, 20:30 »
I had been working on the wintergarten platforms for U-1308 for the last few months. During this time I see a good portion of pictures of Type VIIC

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #611 on: 22 Sep , 2010, 18:53 »


U-1308 gets it Wintergarten platforms and bridge.

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/5278/wintergartenplatforms.jpg (Drawing 100%)
« Last Edit: 22 Sep , 2010, 19:01 by NZSnowman »

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #612 on: 23 Sep , 2010, 22:59 »
Does anyone have any pictures of any piping under the Wintergarten platforms and bridge?

Or...

Does anyone have any pictures of any piping under the main deck?

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #613 on: 24 Sep , 2010, 21:41 »
Does anyone have any good pictures of the Flooding/blowing vents on top of the saddle tanks?

Offline Rokket

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #614 on: 25 Sep , 2010, 01:49 »
no to all, this last one - there are a couple (or 1?) shot(s) in the Anatomy of a VIIC book. The Brits have captured a uboat and are working on it at dock, and the saddle tank covers are pretty prominent.
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