Author Topic: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing  (Read 512191 times)

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Offline SnakeDoc

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1170 on: 21 Oct , 2013, 04:09 »
Hi Simon,


Maciek, do you know if on the late war Type VII/41 if the stern reserve torpedo container was remover?


I believe - yes. There are a lot of statements in the reports from the interrogation of the U-Boat survivors, ie:
U607, in 1943
Quote
Upper deck containers had been removed.
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-607INT.htm


U575, in 1943
Quote
Not fitted on last two patrols.
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-575INT.htm


U615, in 1943
Quote
Before the last patrol, the two upper deck containers were removed
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-615INT.htm


U660, in 1942
Quote
Two upper deck containers were removed in La Spezia.
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-660INT.htm


U453, in 1942
Quote
Removed sometime prior to 7th patrol (late 1942).
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-453INT.htm


U371, in 1942
Quote
Upper deck containers removed after third patrol.
http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-371INT.htm


But also, in BdU KTB we can find (May, 1943):
Quote
Attacks on submerged boats with new types of location methods and apparently more powerful depth charges than previously, have become more concentrated. The recent increase in cases of damage to upper deck containers proves that more powerful depth charges are being used.  These containers must always be especially dangerous if weight is suddenly increased; thus boats operating in the North Atlantic had to be ordered to leave upper deck containers behind.
Quote
Provision of upper deck containers:
    On 30.4 the order was given to omit upper deck containers when fitting out all boats operating in the North Atlantic.  This order was necessitated by the gradually increasing number of cases where, when the boats were depth-charged or bombed, especially at fairly great depths, the upper deck containers were cracked or started leaking, or were swamped and thus very gravely endangered the boat, especially the Type IX which carries 8 deck containers.  It is suspected that this has been the cause of the loss of many boats.
    The following orders are now in force for the provision of upper deck containers:
    1)   Type VIIb, c, d - none.
    2)   Type IXb, c - normally none.
        Type IXc is to take 6 upper deck containers with 6 torpedoes when special orders are given, but only on operations in the south.
    3)   Type IXd - 12 upper deck containers with 12 torpedoes.
    Thus, the upper deck cargo for IXc boats operating in the south has been reduced from 8 to 6 torpedoes to reduce the danger to the boat if containers should spring a leak.   
      In connection with the foregoing order Ob.d.M. made the following decision regarding new construction of upper deck containers.
    i)    Containers on all boats in commission will not be replaced if they have proved faulty.
    ii)   New construction Type VIIc will be equipped with stronger iron upper deck containers as already planned, also, as before, the loading gear for use at sea.
    iii)   New construction Type IXc will be equipped with 6 upper deck containers built of light metal, but possessing greater stability; Type IXd will carry 12 containers.
    iv)    Type IXb and c boats putting to sea without upper deck containers will not have their ballast redistributed, but will carry some 5 tons less fuel.
    v)   Type Xb will be issued with 6 upper deck containers as before, but they are only to be put on board if special orders are given.

http://www.uboatarchive.net/BDUKTB30323.htm


--
Regards
Maciek




Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1171 on: 21 Oct , 2013, 12:53 »
Thanks, Maciek.

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1172 on: 21 Oct , 2013, 13:34 »
Reworked the whole Exhaust Gas Blowing System.

« Last Edit: 21 Oct , 2013, 15:31 by NZSnowman »

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1173 on: 21 Oct , 2013, 15:35 »
Same system as above, but this time from the side view. The pipes are very hard to found but if you look around the base of the CT you can found the open ends ;)


Offline tore

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1174 on: 22 Oct , 2013, 05:19 »
Simon.
As usual high standards.
 A few remarks as to the drainage of the air intakes , both dieselair intake and ventilation air, which I assume you shall fit in later. As a standard diving procedure in the controlroom the drains were always opened at diving to check possible leakages on the air inlet valves. As indicated on the sketch below you see the drains ended up at the funnel fitted on the aft end of the attackperiscope shaft, the man responsible for the shutting of the valves had the duty to check the leakages as well. In rough wheather water was flushing down the drain so the drain plaid an important role. The sketch below showing the arrangement based on a handsketch showing the old schnorchel arrangement having the connection to the ventilation system and not the dieselair as the case of U 1308.
Tore

Offline tore

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1175 on: 22 Oct , 2013, 06:23 »
Simon.
Air ventilation system.
As Maciek correctly pointed out some time ago, the valve of the stb ventilation duct is removed in the controlroom of U 995 (see his picture below). The valve on port is kept.
I believe the reason for this could be the introduction of the schnorchel and rough wheather experience. The first schnorchelsystem had the arrangement as shown in my previous post e.g. schnorchel air inlet into the air ventilation duct and crossover later to the dieselair duct. On the later execution the air entered directly into the diesel airduct. The dieselair intake is able to handle considerable amount of water as it ends up in two large ducts going almost to the port and starboard bilges. The ventilationducts ends directly into the fans and in spite of drainage there is a risk of water entering the system. In fact a German description of the schnorchel system provided earlier by Maciek mention this (see picture below).The marked German text reads freely translated: "This now makes it possible to get the air into the boat through the dieselair footvalve. This way of airsupply is necessary to avoid waterpenetration into the ventilation airducts and damage to the electric plant."
This corresponds very much to my experience and we rather used the dieselengine air duct for ventilation.
Tore
« Last Edit: 24 Oct , 2013, 10:07 by tore »

Offline falo

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1176 on: 24 Oct , 2013, 07:24 »
Hay Snowman,

do you know the attached photo? The picture is "Alberich" (U-1105) related and maybe helpful for your drawings.

I am not sure about the source but I suppose the image is shown in the german book "U-Boot Typ VII: Vom Original zum Modell" and illustrates the lower bow section of "U-1105" during it's shipyard inspection in England after the german surrender (as written in the image description). I catched it for a few months ago via screenshot but I don't know which URL-adress it was.

Interesting to me seems the fact that the "Balkongeraet" was fitted behind "Tauchzelle 5" and not in front of it. The author says that this kind of mounting had its advantage in using the "Balkongeraet" also under snorkel operations and not least in wider scanning ranges (summary of the german image description).

Guess there has to be lot of pictures in british archives about the inspection of U-1105 (?)

Falo   
(thanks for the "Schematic-Drawings"-Update)


Offline tore

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1177 on: 24 Oct , 2013, 10:11 »
Simon.
 Sorry I mixed up the ventilation ductvalves in my post of yesterday. Port is kept and starboard is removed. :-[
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1178 on: 24 Oct , 2013, 12:50 »
Hay Snowman,

do you know the attached photo? The picture is "Alberich" (U-1105) related and maybe helpful for your drawings.

I am not sure about the source but I suppose the image is shown in the german book "U-Boot Typ VII: Vom Original zum Modell" and illustrates the lower bow section of "U-1105" during it's shipyard inspection in England after the german surrender (as written in the image description). I catched it for a few months ago via screenshot but I don't know which URL-adress it was.

Interesting to me seems the fact that the "Balkongeraet" was fitted behind "Tauchzelle 5" and not in front of it. The author says that this kind of mounting had its advantage in using the "Balkongeraet" also under snorkel operations and not least in wider scanning ranges (summary of the german image description).

Guess there has to be lot of pictures in british archives about the inspection of U-1105 (?)

Falo   
(thanks for the "Schematic-Drawings"-Update)

Thanks for the photo :) I have seen it before but this is the clearest version I seen.
 
I carryout a large amount of research on the Type VIIC's Balconger

Offline falo

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1179 on: 25 Oct , 2013, 10:42 »
Hay Simon,


I catched some more "Balkongeraet" (GHG) images from the same (unknown) source. Maybe these images are interesting for you too. Again I used the screenshot feature of my computer at that time to nab some views.


By the way, I have a favor to ask you: Could you please post the announced image of the coated upper pressure hull as described?


[/color]("[/size][/color][/font]I just had a second looked at a photo of U-1105, that has style 6 exhaust outlet and the tiles look like they go right to the exhaust outlet; And perhaps over the cover. I will post the picture later."[/color]). [/size]


I am curious to look at this picture.


Thanks in advance
falo

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1180 on: 25 Oct , 2013, 13:04 »
Falo, from the photo below you are see the tiles go right to the exhaust outlet. If you look at the edge of the exhaust outlet you can see two large black spots and a narrow band around the edge of the exhaust outlet.
 
I believe the two large black spots are rivets and the narrow band is a steel band that hold the tile to the edge of the exhaust outlet.


Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1181 on: 25 Oct , 2013, 16:51 »
Maciek, finally got around and finch all the little updates on the bow torpedo tubes. Lots of small changes, can not remember them all, but the keys one are a whole new door hinge/control arm, and the fins on the forward part of the tube.

Maciek, do you have any photo

Offline tore

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1182 on: 26 Oct , 2013, 02:39 »
Simon.
Sorry for mingling into a field which is not my speciality. I have a photo in my file of just the frontdoor of the torpedo tube, probably known to you. Of course the linkage for folding in the outer casingdoors are not shown. I am sure Maciek have more elaborate photos.
Tore

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1183 on: 14 Feb , 2014, 18:46 »
SCHNORCHEL PISTON

Maciek, recently provided me some additional information about the Schnorchel, so I have updated my drawing. The new Schnorchel piston drawings are significantly more detail and correct compare to my old drawing.


Fig. 1. Top view.


Fig. 2. Side view, red box is the Schnorchel mast  at 0°.


Fig. 3. Side view, red box is the Schnorchel mast at 45°.


Fig. 3. Side view, red box is the Schnorchel mast at 90°.

There is some suggestion that there are two styles of Schnorchel piston found on the Type VIIC's, a 'Loop' design as seen in most photographs and a 'streamline' design as see on some plans and drawings. My research indicates that there is only one schnorchel piston design, the 'Loop' design. It is believed that incorrect plans, poor quality photographs, the current configuration of U-995 and the Type VIIC Revell models have all led to suggest of a second 'streamline' schnorchel piston and pipe design. Schnorchel mast is raised and lowered by the Schnorchel piston that is controlled by two hand wheels in the control room which activate a hydraulic mechanism. One hand-wheel is turned to "Open" for rising, when the Schnorchel is to be lowered, this wheel must be in the "Closed" position and the other wheel turned to "Open".

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1184 on: 14 Feb , 2014, 21:09 »

Fig. 1. Top view, Schnorchel head.


Fig. 2. Top view, Schnorchel head and Schnorchel piston.