AMP - Accurate Model Parts
SEA => SUBS: Uboats => TYPE VII => Topic started by: bianco64squalo on 26 Feb , 2018, 03:14
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Hi everybody,
surfing on internet I found several UZO realizations from many modelers, many photoetrchings parts and many photos of real UZOs in many U-Boats; all this material make my ideas a little bit confused...
The best photo I found of U552 UZO is that one I posted, with Erich Topp standing inside conning tower after a patrol.
I read the Dougie's Wolf Pack articles, and the first question is: was the UZO position offset or it was in axis with conning tower centerline ( and so my RCSUBS photoetchings are wrong ) ?
And more: I saw many models with four vertical handrails on UZO column, bau I think it was only one: what is true ?
And last: is there a photo of a typical Type VIIC UZO ( I am interested on U552 ), that I can use for scratchbuild my one ?
Thanks in advance for replies.
Filippo
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Hi Filippo,
not sure if you already seen it but this YouTube-Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBxEpfmh1kc&t=501s) features a Wochenschau documentation of U 552 during a patrol at the US east coast. It provides plenty of shots of the conning tower like the one attached. It seems like the UZO is covered (Not sure, it could also be the top of a small sailor's head). Just from quickly looking at the picture the UZO appears to be slightly offset to the left but drawing some lines and comparing different shots would be needed to confirm.
Best regards,
Tim
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Grazie Tim,
non è l'U552, ma sicuramente il film è utile per la vista all'interno della torre di comando.
La testa della UZO è coperta da un cappuccio, ma sembra che fosse in asse, e non sfalsato ...
Non è visibile l'intera colonna UZO; se qualcun altro ha più documentazione, grazie in anticipo ...
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Grazie Tim,[/size]non è l'U552, ma sicuramente il film è utile per la vista all'interno della torre di comando.La testa della UZO è coperta da un cappuccio, ma sembra che fosse in asse, e non sfalsato ...Non è visibile l'intera colonna UZO; se qualcun altro ha più documentazione, grazie in anticipo ...
Thanks Tim,
surely the video's boat is not U552, but it useful for inside view of conning tower...
The UZO head is covered by a cap, but it seems it was in axis, not offset...
Unfortunately it isn't visible the entire UZO pedestal; if someone has more documentation, thanks in advance.
Filippo[/color]
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Hi Filippo,
are you sure it's not U 552? It's definitely Erich Topp, the commander, in the video and U 552 did a patrol in this area under his command. It's embedded in footage of two other boats (beginning and end). I found another screen shot from the video where you can see the UZO more clearly.
Best regards,
Tim
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Hello folks,
There are various U-boats in the video but the VIIC around the 5-minute mark has got to be U 552. It is definitely Erich Topp at 5:03.
On the subject of the UZO position, try stopping the video at 5:01. I am pretty sure the UZO is central in this shot of U 552. You see the vertical line on the wooden tower floor leading from the UZO to the tower hatch? This is the join between the two removable wooden areas. It would make sense for the join to be directly in the middle of the tower floor. The join is directly behind the centre of the UZO, thus providing us with a convenient measuring point. I've measured it a few times and the join (and the UZO) look to be directly midway between the tower bulwark walls.
For the other UZO question I think it has normally one vertical bar.
Filippo, you will also need to make sure your model has no squares on the tower ahead of the UZO. Instead the tower floor had two rectangular hatches which can be seen very well at 5:01. Note that the squares through which the water drained through extended farther forward on the starboard side than the port side (this can also be seen in the video).
Cheers,
Dougie
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Hi Dougie,
actually you ( and Tim ) were right: among various U-Boats in video, there is also U552, if it'was true that Erich Topp served as commander only on U552....
UZO seems to be central, not offset to port, as in almost all photoetching sets producer ( as my one: see posted photo ); I'll surely have to modify the position of UZO: I'll decide afterwards how to do the corrections on photoetched deck ( suggestions welcome ).
I'll have another problem: if you see the photoetched deck I bought, also the fixing of wintergarden stanchions on conning tower is wrong on Trumpeter model: it was on side boards of towwer, and not on deck as in the model... ( suggestions welcome ).
Cheers
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I tried to match the same view as 5:01 with my U-1308. 5:01 does suggect that the UZO could be in the centreline. On a side note I estimate the off set is only 180 mm.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4719/38711963200_3a1957c0d6_o.jpg)
This image has been resized. Click to view original image.
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Thanks Snowman....
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Hello folks,
Another point I forgot to mention. Since the UZO was used to fire torpedoes during surface attacks it makes sense for the column to be directly on the centreline of the boat. I can't imagine why they would place it in an offset position, especially when there is space to place it centrally.
Yes, the wintergarten railings did meet with the edge of the tower floor. Note that there was a lip (a raised edge) all around the edge of the floor. This lip was inside of the tower railings.
When you come to the railings, you should note that they were not all the same diameter. One vertical stanchion on the side was thicker than the rest. Also, the top horizontal bar was thicker too.
Cheers,
Dougie
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Hi Dougie,
if you alreay know which stanchion is thicker, can you tell me, please ?
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Ok, after analizing photos, I saugh the thicker stanchion...
Thanks Dougie...
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Here is a pic of an IXC showing how the vertical stanchions met the tower deck.
I modified all the railings on my U-190 build accordingly.
Was this also the same for the VII boats?
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Yes, the wintergarten railings did meet with the edge of the tower floor. Note that there was a lip (a raised edge) all around the edge of the floor. This lip was inside of the tower railings.
When you come to the railings, you should note that they were not all the same diameter. One vertical stanchion on the side was thicker than the rest. Also, the top horizontal bar was thicker too.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4651/40516923132_16b3c02634_o.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4707/40559654211_3b902202f1_o.jpg)
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4625/39848924974_87bcceec3a_o.jpg)
These images has been resized. Click to view original image.
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Hi folks,
Thanks for posting this, Simon. And good job with your U 190, Glenn. One last point. U 552 had black railings. Also the inside of the tower and the attack persicope housing were also black on U 552.
Cheers,
Dougie
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Hi Dougie,
are you sure about the black color of railing and inside conning tower ? It's a news for me...
I always wonder how can a color identifyed from a black and white photo...
I must be absolutely sure of that, because the impact of these black surfaces ewill be important on the finished model...
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Hi Fillipo,
Here is a good shot -
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_101II-MW-3676-27,_St._Nazaire,_Uboot_U_552,_Besatzung.jpg
You can see the tower railings, attack periscope and inside walls of the tower are all very dark. I think it is black but if you think it is dark grey you could go with that. It definitely is not the light grey Hellgrau 50 that was the upper colour of U 552. Note that this is a later photo of U 552 when the wind deflector was in place.
Here is another. Note the 20mm mount is light grey -
https://www.militaryimages.net/media/kriegmarine-u-boot-u552-type-viic.52011/
Here is another you could look at -
http://www.uboataces.com/cgi-bin/uboat-photo.cgi?uniqky=200510121313658632
This last one has U 552 with black deck railings and an entirely black magnetic compass housing. Sometimes U-boats were painted with the top half of the magnetic compass housing black, as per the painting regulations. I think a dockyard worker became a little too busy with a tin of black paint and painted the entire housing and the ralings black.
We do need to be a bit careful. I am assuming that you are building U 552 the same as the Trumpeter kit. This means there is no wind deflector at the top of the tower. Also, I am assuming you are fitting the breakwaters (the splash guards on the side of the hull which helped stop waves splashing on the 88mm). Is this correct?
Lastly, in regard to the net cutter, I haven't seen any photos of U 552 with the red devil and the net cutter. You might be best to not fit the net cutter at all.
Cheers,
Dougie
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Thanks Dougie, I’ll keep all your suggestments in my mind...
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Thanks to all....
This is my fiished UZO, near the Trumpeter's one...
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Thanks to all....
This is my finished UZO, near the Trumpeter's one...
Trumpeter's version is an embarrassing blob of shapeless plastic.
Your UZO is a work of art.
Would you consider casting & selling that? :D
Or uploading a 3D model to Shapeways?
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Thanks to all....
This is my finished UZO, near the Trumpeter's one...
Or uploading a 3D model to Shapeways?
Glenn what style are you after? I have a couple of styles. The models I have are too detail for 3-D printing, but I should be able to downscale them.
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Thanks Glenn for your kind words....
I'm not able to upload a 3D model ( I don't use CAD programs ) neither I'm not able to cast somewhat ( I never used this technique in modelling ).
Anyway I'm happy that you like my UZO.... now I'm working on attack periscope mounting.
Stay tuned...
Cheers