Torpedo Stowage

[Katuna]

Ok, It's been quiet around here lately and I think we sadly may be beating a dead horse on my refrigeration question so here's a new question. Hopefully it's easier to answer than my last one.


How are the under deck plate torpedoes stored? In other words, how are they secured? Are they set on wood chocks/cradles or are there metal cradles? On the Trumpeter model, they just have them setting loose in the trough under the deck plates. Obviously this is wrong (like most things on the Trumpy kit). Would they have been secured with ropes or chains & binders? I've never seen anyone model how they were secured. Everyone seems to just stick 4 torpedoes down there and call it good.


I'm modelling my boat towards the end of a specific patrol and there wouldn't have been any torpedoes left under the deck. I want to model whatever securing system would have been there.

[Katuna]

Came across this pic on U-Historia. It didn't give a description of the specific picture. I was wondering if this is the stowage trough under the deck but it looks too high in the boat as the lower torpedo tubes are in line with it. It didn't specify if this was a Type VII or IX.

[Raymic1]

This photo is above as you can see the Tubes and the folded bunks.
It would make sense that underfloor would be similar half moon supports.
Also they had the full circle lifting rings.
Ties downs would need a picture to confirm which I have never seen yet.

[tore]

The VIICs had two external torpedo stowage pressurecontainers in the casing, one in the bow casing and one aft of the aft torpedoloading hatch. on the GA plan below the relevant containers are coloured red.
Tore

[Katuna]

Tore - Thanks for the info. I thought those containers had been eliminated later in the war. The post-sinking interrogation record for my boat, U-371 does not list outer stowage.


That said, I wasn't clear on what I was looking for. I'm looking for the stowage under the torpedo room floor plates. I know there has to be some kind of chock or cradle for the 4 torpedoes. I'm curious how they were secured. Was there a clamp over the top or chains/ropes? They had to be tied down pretty securely to keep the in place during dives/accents.

[SG]

Katuna, found a pair of pics:


http://u.cubeupload.com/SGm/TR1.jpg


http://u.cubeupload.com/SGm/TR2.jpg


http://u.cubeupload.com/SGm/TR3.jpg


In the first pic torpedoes seem to be in the process of being taken out of the "under-floor" stowage. In the bottom of the first pic some very basic "crescent-shaped" support is visible between the torpedoes' tips, maybe of the same type as the one visible in pic 2. Are the two cylindrical stuff visible in the pic torpedoes with a protective sheath or are they cylindrical containers for the torpedoes that could be tilted towards each torpedo tube? very difficult to say for me. Maybe Tore, Simon, or Natter could help. Anyway these sheaths dont look like the ones often seen in pictures showing torpedoes on barges or cradles in the process of being moved or lifted. Perspective could simply make them appearing different, moreover the "tubes" seem to have been greased so they may well be torpedoes instead.
- Pic 2: "underfloor" stowage? havent got sufficient knowledge to say, but i dont' think so considering the various lockers present on the floor and the level of floor compared to the height of the lower torpedo tubes. 
- Pic 3 is a closeup that shows how the support was secured to the floor.
Am just guessing here but possibly supports for the torpedoes stowed below the planking could be similar to that in pic 2 (if torpedoes werent stowed in dedicated cylindrical containers. I would drop this hypotesis, Not the most ergonomic solution to place the torpedoes into those containers from the outside of the boat I reckon, unless pre-loadad).
Hope this helps. Cheers,
SG

[Raymic1]

Thanks SG.
I've seen 2 of these 3 before. Great pics.
However the first one appears to be just them loading one of the 2 Torpedoes loaded and stored above the floor.
Or its been lifted from underfloor to crew level.
Even though the left crewman appears to be standing on the underfloor level.
At the start of the mission they had these 2 extra and in some pictures as in yours they had a flat cover , a bit like modern plywood, covering the 2 Eels so the crew could sleep on it.
I do agree though that I think the supports would have been the same underfloor as the pictures we have of the above floor ones.
Cheers


Ps. In the first photo though its interesting to see some storage under the bunks with the floor lifted
Do you have a clearer PIC 1 ?

[Katuna]

SG - Awesome pics sir! I've looked everywhere and have never seen either of those before. Thanks so much. If you look at the pic I posted, you can see the same cradle with lagging clamps. That's the route I'm going to go with unless something else show us differently.

Raymic - I think you're right. They would have laid plywood or crate lids or whatever they had across the upper fish so they could sleep as well as get around them easier. I believe all the pics are from the upper stowage floor. Question is, is that a VII or a IX? Great deck detail there too!

[Raymic1]

Picture of schematic of a Type VIIC.
Shows wedges but no real detail

[SG]

Katuna, Raymic,
- Yes, i had already noticed the items stored under the bunks: one can recognise a big tin can, bottle(s) etc. I think they were usually stored under the floor, in compartments that had lockers' style openings and that are vsible in pic2. However extra stuff could be stowed under the bunks.
- Excellent finding of that technical drawing showing the wedges/crescents!
- I am more and more convinced that torpedoes were stored in the underfloor compartment retaining their protective sheath, as shown in picture 1. I am still uncertain if this was the actual rule for every boat or if the decision was subjective. We surely need more evidence to confirm that. I am therefore dropping the hypotesis of the storage tubing for torpedoes if not otherwise proven.
- Katuna, definitely type VII's considering the dimensions of the torpedo room section (yess i had noticed the cradle/clamps of your pic and had thought that some more details would be useful for your purposes ).
- Raymic, i will try to post a better pic 1 over the weekend as a PP even if the original is quite blurred and rather dark
What else, congrats for the research done so far!
     

[bianco64squalo]

Cheers...

[Katuna]

Filippo - Your first photo is cropped off at the bottom and is missing the critical piece of information. I had come across the same photo but a slightly large image. It clearly shows the lagging clamps used to secure the torpedoes. I think this solves the mystery.


Raymic - On the contrary, your blueprint drawing confirms the clamps. A simple band with a tightening screw.


Eureka! Finally a confirmed answer to a question and not a best guess.

[Raymic1]

BUMP




Just a minor extra.
Reading in U Boat War by Buchheim it confirms the obvious that the 'Wedges' under the Eels were made of wood.

[Raymic1]

Interesting update shot of under bunks Torpedo stowage on U995

[Katuna]

Me thinks those are the clamps for the compressed air tanks. Two tanks under each set of bunks Port and Stbd. Cool shot though.