VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing

[Capn Tucker]

I would tend to go with the different shipyards theory. The requirement was probably just that there needed to be a railing there, and not that they all had to be done in exactly the same way. Then there could be repairs to battle damage etc. Could have been a replacement installed at the pier or in drydock, and with whatever was handy.
Same thing with limber holes. They varied from yard to yard, from boat to boat, different time periods etc etc..

[SG]

Well done Simon, for spotting the details!

[NZSnowman]

I would tend to go with the different shipyards theory. The requirement was probably just that there needed to be a railing there, and not that they all had to be done in exactly the same way. Then there could be repairs to battle damage etc. Could have been a replacement installed at the pier or in drydock, and with whatever was handy.
Same thing with limber holes. They varied from yard to yard, from boat to boat, different time periods etc etc..

Could it also been a matter of different Ships yards doing things slightly different?

From the picture, it also looks like where the stanchions attach to the upper wintergarden is also a bit different.
In fact the actual shape of the wintergarden decks also look different. One is more rounded and one seems to be more rectangular

I can tell you one thing, and that is Style 2 the late war arounded railing as not design with a CAD progam or draftsman!

Nothing this symmetrical or mathematically curved! It’s been a nightmare trying to get them to work together. I ended up free handing most of the railing to make it look natural and to look like the wartime photos.

I’d almost say for almost certain that these rails were designed and constructed by the shipyard workers completely.
 

[NZSnowman]

Style 2 the late war rounded railing

[OldNoob]

LOVE it!

I was thinking maybe since that upper railing is not round but rather somewhat oval or flattened, maybe it was just easier for the ship builders to make sweeping cures as opposed to hard angles.

[falo]

Hi Gents,


Thanks for the new ct drawings. I suppose the pipes under the upper platform are containers for spare barrels for the 3,7 cm AA gun.


Just a question: Do you have frame drawings for the ct? Maybe from some original source?


Best regards and thanks in advance
Falo

[NZSnowman]

LOVE it!

I was thinking maybe since that upper railing is not round but rather somewhat oval or flattened, maybe it was just easier for the ship builders to make sweeping cures as opposed to hard angles.

My curve is not 100% correct (about +90% correct) I just could not match all the curve to match the war time photos. With better photo, especially from above, I may get it 100% correct.
 
You have a very good point about “easier for the ship builders to make sweeping cures as opposed to hard angles”. I can imagine the dockworker taking a pipe bender up on the deck and slowly bending the pipe and testing to see if it fit, and repeating the process until it does.

[NZSnowman]

Thanks for the new ct drawings. I suppose the pipes under the upper platform are containers for spare barrels for the 3,7 cm AA gun.

Yes, the pipes are the spare barrels for the 3.7 cm Flak guns.
 
If you are going to add the spare barrels be aware that there are two styles.

Style 1. War late - Usual position.
Style 2. U-boats constructed by Flensburger Schiffbau-Gesellschaft, Flensburg, they lower the angle of the spare barrels to about 3 degs, nearly flat. Like my drawing. Reason unknown?

Just a question: Do you have frame drawings for the ct? Maybe from some original source?

I have never seen any frame diagrams, drawings or original German measurements of the turms. I have seen a very few of the conning tower original measurements, but they are a little conflicting with other measurements of seen. I need to do some more research in this area and see which ones are correct.

There are a few line drawing of late war Type VIIC’s and Type VIIC/41’s but I would not expect them to be accurate, they are okay only for a guide.

[NZSnowman]

Hi NZSnowman,


To clarify
M42 LM42U single 3.7cm fitted to both type VIIs and type IXs
C38 DLM43U twin 2cm fitted both types. DLM43U would not have been able to support the 3.7cm M42 or M43
M43 LM42U single 3.7cm fitted to type VIIs and type IXs, cheaper to manufacture, greater rate of fire, shorter range (and barrel)
M42 DLM42U twin 3.7cm - U boats ]
M43 DLM42U twin 3.7cm - U boats ]same mount, just different gun[size=78%]


Or the short answer the M43 I was previously referring to was the gun not the mount. The M43 was definitely fitted to at least one U Boat, the U 534, so was most probably fitted to other boats that had their single 3.7cm upgraded to a twin during the latter months of the war, no exact date for the U 534s fitment but sometime after October '44. It would not have been necessary to develop a new mount for the M43 as its pivot point and firing linkage are virtually identical to the M42. To be honest it is very difficult to spot the difference between the M42 and M43 in wartime photos.


Regards
Jon

Jon, I was wondering if you have seen any original German dimensions for the 2cm Flak C/38 II M 43 U?

I estimate the base at 580 mm wide.

[Capt Kremin]

Hi Simon,


I will check next weekend, I am currently away from home.


Regards
Jon

[falo]

Hi Snowman,

thanks for your answers.

I think I know what you mean: The famous VIIC outlines from Koehl are partly redrawings made in 1975 and 1985. The stern drawing is dated from 1988. But – as we all suppose here – every single yard had is own individual building style. So IMO Koehls drawings are a good base to derive a particular VIIC U boat. But as you said for that endeavor a lot of good pictures and imagination are required. 

Regards
falo

[NZSnowman]

Hi Simon,


I will check next weekend, I am currently away from home.


Regards
Jon

Thanks

[NZSnowman]

Today I found a little detail that has been missing.
 
Most (maybe all) drawings/ plans and the Revell 1:72 Scale Type VIIC/41 have four ladder rungs up to the upper platform. But if you look carefully at war time photo’s you will see that the Germans use the hand rail for the second ladder rung. The hand rail was a little close to the casing so they dogleg the rail out a little to match the other ladder rung.

[NZSnowman]

Schnorchel restraining bracket with locking pin and control arm.

Grease lines can be seen going under the tower casting

[OldNoob]

Awesome work. Keep it up! Looking forward to viewing the complete model in some form of interactive method.