Author Topic: Working Drawing - VIIC/41  (Read 20044 times)

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Offline Pat

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Re: Working Drawing - VIIC/41
« Reply #30 on: 03 Feb , 2010, 07:00 »
Oh, that's wonderfully kind of you about the drawings.  I'd love to have my name on that list also.

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: Working Drawing - VIIC/41
« Reply #31 on: 02 May , 2010, 17:56 »
I have started working again on the 'Working drawing' after finishing off the Engine Room Poster the other day. New drawing is base on original German measurements and includes correct steels thickness also. I have finish the Pressure Hull (remember this is Type VIIC/41 so the steel thickness is 21 mm not 16-22mm like all other Type VII

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: Working Drawing - VIIC/41
« Reply #32 on: 27 Sep , 2010, 21:58 »
Piping under the Deck

Here a small update on the piping under the decking. I have added the Main air inlet trunk, the Main valves for blowing of diving tanks 2  & 4; the diving tank 2  & 4 trunks and valves for blowing of diving tanks 3. There are fours layers within the drawing to play around with. Also added the ribbing and framing layout

http://www.mediafire.com/?jurva7l4vijprt8




Seewolf

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Re: Working Drawing - VIIC/41
« Reply #33 on: 28 Sep , 2010, 21:17 »
Hello Simon,
great job thanks for sharing.

Offline Rokket

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Re: Working Drawing - VIIC/41
« Reply #34 on: 02 Oct , 2010, 17:47 »
very good stuff
AMP - Accurate Model Parts - http://amp.rokket.biz

Offline FoxbaT

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Re: Working Drawing - VIIC/41
« Reply #35 on: 04 Oct , 2010, 05:40 »
I have the modelbrass PE kit, and i am trying to find out the exact locations of the saddletank vents.
The only info i have is this, and i am not sure if this is correct:





Are the locations of these vents the same on all type VII`s?




Karel

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: Working Drawing - VIIC/41
« Reply #36 on: 04 Oct , 2010, 13:07 »
Karel, to be honest I have only started doing so research on the saddle tank vents. There appear to be a large different between drawings I have seen (still looking and collecting photographs) in the number, size and orientation of the vents on the saddle tank.

If anyone know the location, Karel. I should be able from my drawing to give you measurements to where to place them base on the internal framing.
« Last Edit: 04 Oct , 2010, 13:08 by NZSnowman »

Offline dougie47

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Re: Working Drawing - VIIC/41
« Reply #37 on: 04 Oct , 2010, 14:59 »
Hi Karel,

Like Simon, I haven't researched the saddle tank manhole inspection covers fully. So I'd be happy to be correct about any of the following. 

Great photos can be found on pages 88/89 of Lawrence Paterson's U 564 book "U-Boat War Patrol". P88 shows the bottom cover being taken off by a crewman with a spanner (a top and bottom cover needed to be removed to gain access to the bunker). P89 shows the bottom cover having been fully removed, with a crewman inside the bunker - a tight fit! The P88 photo shows the shape of the cover and the bolt head locations.

Another resource is page 2/3 of David Westwood's "The Type VII U-Boat". This shows U 69 on 19 Sep 1940 before launch. I think this photo shows two of the five covers were a different orientation to the other three. Below shows what I mean. Apologies for the quality - I drew this very quickly to show what I mean about orientation. I'm pretty sure about the orientation but not 100% sure.



There may have been differences in the shape of the covers. Wink thought that some of the U55X series was more rounded than the oval shape in the Modelbrass set. I think he is correct about this as a few photos do show a more rounded shape. Others are quite oval.

I know there are smaller sizes in the Modelbrass set but I don't think this is correct. I remember discussion about it when the Modelbrass set was being designed. I think it is just a difference in orientation.

By memory I think VIIBs had 3 covers per side, while VIICs had 5 covers per side.

Cheers,

Dougie 

PS I think these items are manhole covers, with the actual vents being under the deck?

Offline Pat

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Re: Working Drawing - VIIC/41
« Reply #38 on: 04 Oct , 2010, 15:21 »
Simon and Dougie, I'm so glad to hear you say that there seems to be differences between the different boats regarding all the inspection ports on the saddle tanks.

Not that I'm surprised, since there seems to be all sorts of differences in other areas too, but I thought I'd go nuts trying to find out where to put them on my boat.

Dougie's done some great work showing the different free flow holes depending on which shipyard the boat came from, so it makes me wonder if this was also something that varied more by yard than by time period or model of boat?

But it's been instructive learning that they were manhole covers for inspection.  But why the different orientations?  And does that mean there were ladders inside?

Also, since the vents were under the deck, where were the filling caps?

Offline dougie47

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Re: Working Drawing - VIIC/41
« Reply #39 on: 05 Oct , 2010, 09:32 »
Hi Pat,

Good point about the orientation, there would have to be a reason for making two of them different to the rest. Not sure why.

I'm not at all sure whether I am right about the orientation. See the image below



You can get a good idea of the shape of the nearest cover. But the cover that is farther back I'm not sure about. The three dots are in a different orientation to the three dots on the nearest cover, suggesting a 90 degress difference in orientation. But maybe the shape is different - does it look more rounded? What do you make of the shape?

Not sure about ladders...perhaps. There might be something inside to allow a man to move around.

I think you are right about the differences between yard, the variations between yards keep it intersting for us.

Cheers,

Dougie

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: Working Drawing - VIIC/41
« Reply #40 on: 05 Oct , 2010, 11:03 »
I would not think a ladders is not needed as it's only approximately 930mm drop to the pressure where you stand at the openings, plus there a network of framing within the saddle tanks to get a good foot holds. You would not want to fall the full distance to the bottom at approximately 2400mm.

Dougie, I am going to order U-Boat War Patrol from the UK but it going to be about three weeks, would it be possible to post the pictures from pages 88/89? While we on the subject about ordering books, does anyone know of a good online bookshops that they used to order rare books on U-boat. We have very few chooses in NZ? Also I ought to also ask before ordering, Dougie, is U-Boat War Patrol any good?

I am still getting my head around the saddle tanks cover, but are they all vents? Or are a few manholes, as most of the pictures I seen look like they are all vents :-\

I have only one week left of the ski season in NZ, then I have heap more time to start again with my drawing and research. High on my list of research this summer is these saddle tanks cover, and a few other things like the Schnorchel, deck layout, the FlaK guns and under deck piping system.

Offline Pat

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Re: Working Drawing - VIIC/41
« Reply #41 on: 05 Oct , 2010, 11:38 »
Dougie, interesting picture and thoughts about the saddle tank covers.

I see 3 covers in thepicture though, not just 2.  There's a 3rd cover at the right, just at the top of the white streak that might be some discolouration due to diesel fuel leaking out and making some of the paint flake off.  It's oriented the same way as the middle cover and has the 3 dots going the same way as the middle cover.

And yes, the sahpe of those two covers looks different than the cover at the left.  They seem rounder, not as much of a flattened ellipse.

As for the 3 dots, they seem strange but I'd guess they have something to do with how the cover is fastened to the hull plating, or how the fastening is unlocked.  Perhaps there's a tool, like an allen key sort of thing, that fits into a socket in the dot and lets them turn?  And when they're turned, they turn a lever inside that releases catches that hold the cover down?  Sort of like the wheel on top of the main hatch of the conning tower, but not in place all the time for hydrodynamic reasons?

Perhaps 3 holes as the ones at either side something that the handle locks into for mechanical advantage while the centre one is where the tool sockets into?

It also looks for sure that these covers are slightly raised from the plating on the saddle tanks, as if they fit over a slightly smaller hole rather than get inset into a hole to be smooth on the outside.

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: Working Drawing - VIIC/41
« Reply #42 on: 05 Oct , 2010, 12:03 »
Pat, I think the 3 dots or three holes are bolt holes that hold the internal arm system for opening and closing the vents. From what I seen so far in pictures and going by the other driving tanks vents on the U-boat. The cover, withdraw back within the tanks to let the air out. That why I think you see photographs that the covers look reset in to the saddle tanks.

Also I believe, all the cover on a boat are the same size and shape, I think they like different as some are further away

Offline dougie47

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Re: Working Drawing - VIIC/41
« Reply #43 on: 05 Oct , 2010, 12:55 »
Hi gents,

Below are the two photos from Paterson's U 564 book.



They might help with this discussion.

Another helpful photo is of U 93 on page 19 of Vom Original zum Model: VIIC. This shows U 93 without the covers, albeit from a distance. 

Cheers,

Dougie

PS Simon, the U 564 book is fantastic, highly recommended for photos included throughout the book.

Offline Pat

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Re: Working Drawing - VIIC/41
« Reply #44 on: 05 Oct , 2010, 16:38 »
Simon, the three holes connecting to an internal arms system inside the covers makes sense.  I can see such an arm simply pivoting on the central hole, while the outer holes just raise and lower a set screw that locks the arm into place and thereby holds the cover closed.

I don't think the covers would be all the same size or shape though.  Because of their different orientations, they would have to have different curvaturesto fit the slopes of the saddle tanks and therefore couldn't be interchangeable.

You're right that ladders wouldn't be a necessity because of the multiple frames inside the tanks.  But unless the frames were cut out with purposeful footholds in specific places, it would be difficult to climb in and out since the frames and bulkheads are sometimes at odd angles.  Have you ever tried climbing a framework that wasn't made for climbing but is possible to climb.  It can be done, just not as easily or safely.  So while not 100% necessary, ladders would just make it easier, so they may, or may not, be inside.  That might be another shipyard specific variation.  I could accept them either being installed or not being installed though.  We don't think the same way they did during wartime urgency.