Author Topic: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing  (Read 512104 times)

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Offline Pat

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #540 on: 24 Jun , 2010, 07:13 »
Simon, I've tried for several days now, on 4 different computers and 3 different ISP's, to view the picture of the stuffing box that you were asking about on June 19 but can't get the picture to come up on any of them.  I can't see any pictures posted on this thread after the one June 17, so can't make any comments.

However, here is a URL which has diagrams of several submarine stuffing boxes for periscopes, which might be of some help. 

If I add it up right, there should be about 7 stuffing boxes on a type VII U-boat

(1 each for the arm to activate the forward dive planes, rear dive planes and rudders) total of 3

(1 for each of the 2 propellor shafts) total of 2

(1 for each of the 2 periscopes) total of 2

About the only difference is that the propellor shaft stuffing boxes would have to stand up to longer periods of use at higher speeds, but other than that, they would probably be very similar in design.

On my boat, I can't get at the stuffing box very easily since it is buried deep in the keel and I have to dismantle the panels on two berths and then dive in head first to get to it in a very confined space.  My owner's manual doesn't have a diagram either.

However, the principal of them is basically the same except that most modern stuffing boxes seem to be only of metal with no wood (lignam vitae).  The stuffing box is filled usually with oiled rope or cotton, packed very tightly and then with the pressure increased by turning screws that condense the packing as much as mechanically possible.  As can be seen in the URL I've posted, there is sometimes also a bushing formed by a flat wire or grooved tube wrapped around the moveable shaft to allow water-repellant lubrication to service the shaft as well.

Hope this is of some help. 

Offline Pat

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #541 on: 24 Jun , 2010, 10:17 »
Reading that URL from U-boat archive about U-570, that was posted by Simon, I came across something that I've always wondered about, but hadn't found an answer to (or perhaps I had and had forgotten it).

Just above the forward hydroplanes are two round circles on each side of the hull. 

Page 28 of the U-570 archives describes the UT ("underwater telegraphy") gear and that has to be what those two circles are.

If so, there are almost certainly black in colour and a dull, almost, but not quite flat finish.

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #542 on: 26 Jun , 2010, 21:30 »
Hi Pat

I can not imagine why you can not see the picture. I will have a think of another way so you can view it, as I am very intense to see what you think of my Stuffing Box.

I have found a basic drawing for a US Gato periscope Stuffing Box which I may used next summer if I can not found a German one.

Also on the UT, I have always believe the covers for the UT and GHG sensors were made of copper :-\       
   

Offline SnakeDoc

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #543 on: 28 Jun , 2010, 03:58 »
Hello Simon



Fig. 1. Top Drawing - Side View with bolts holes & Bottom Drawing - Top view cross-section.

Sections

Green = Internal torpedo tube section (bow section)
Red = Section 1 of outer torpedo tube (within Bow Diving Tank).
Purple = Section 2 of outer torpedo tube (within Bow Diving Tank).
Orange = Section 3 of outer torpedo tube (within Bow Diving Tank).
Copper = Small section of outer torpedo tube (within torpedo outer door).
Yellow = A small gasket I believe :-\
Blue = Bow cap Casting


Thanks for additional description.
Could you tell me sources you based on drawing tube as 4 sections (1 inner and 3 outer) device?

--
Regards
Maciek

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #544 on: 28 Jun , 2010, 17:17 »
Hi Maciek

For the outer tube section I used several pictures from the U-995 DVD


Picture from U-995 http://www.uboataces.com/u995.shtml

and for the bow cap casting/outer tube/bolts I used several pictures from a private collection.

 

Offline SnakeDoc

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #545 on: 29 Jun , 2010, 01:51 »
Hi Simon

Thanks for photos.
I have seen the first photo before, but I have not associated it with submarine tube (but it clearly is).
The second photo is interensting - it seems like aft (nearer pressure hull) part of the lower port torpedo tube.
This part of tube is very rarely pictured ;(

--
Regards
Maciek

Offline Pat

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #546 on: 02 Jul , 2010, 13:46 »
I don't know what it is about the pictures on this site, but they seem to be a problem for me.  I often have trouble and have to refresh several times to get the entire pic, or perhaps come back a different day and then it works, but not always.  I've tried one more computer now, again on a different ISP and can't view them.

Sometimes I put it down to my cranky old computer but when it

Offline Rokket

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #547 on: 03 Jul , 2010, 03:50 »
I'm not sure but there MIGHT be a reference to the UT/GHG in Dougie's paint article, or The Wolf Pack...

Pat - sorry you are having trouble viewing pix. The tube pix above are actually just links, from imageshack, tho they seem to be appearing OK. I know we have a free forum app, and a free gallery with limited space we have to keep upping, but it should still work for you. can you describe symptoms and errors, and we'll see what we can do. I wonder if it is a browser setting on the various computers you are trying..hopefully, because that's an easy fix!
AMP - Accurate Model Parts - http://amp.rokket.biz

Offline Rokket

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #548 on: 03 Jul , 2010, 03:50 »
oh, excellent pix, never seen before, THANKS!
AMP - Accurate Model Parts - http://amp.rokket.biz

Offline Pat

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #549 on: 03 Jul , 2010, 14:13 »
Ok, the two pix just before are a good example.

The top picture (titled "Picture from U-995") at the moment is only showing from the top down to just before the tube starts.  I see a white background with what looks like perhaps a chain and a beige/butterscotch coloured part in the middle that I can't tell what it is.  The total visible part is about 3 cursor widths high (I'm using that as a measurement since different monitors might produce different measurements).  The rest of the picture is blank.  There's enough space for it, but nothing has come up after waiting for 1/2 hour to download.

The bottom picture though (the bow cap casting/outer tube/bolts) has come through perfectly showing a white tube with a collar and 2 rows of nuts holding it together, a rusted bar crossing it diagonally from upper left to lower right and an a rusty 's' shaped tube on the right hand side.

Sometimes, if I refresh several times, I get a little bit more of the picture each time.  Sometimes not.  Sometimes it makes a difference to try a different computer on a different ISP, but often not.  At first I thought it was just my old clunker computer but if that was the case, why it not work on the computer at the yacht club office, my wife's business computer (using my ISP) or her laptop usingsomebody else's wireless, or a computer at the library?

Perhaps it's something to do with bandwidth in this area, but then, I'd think the library with hi-speed connectivity would work fine.

I don't understand myself, but whenever I get one that comes through right, if it's going to be useful I make sure to save it in case I can never see it again.

Offline dougie47

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #550 on: 05 Jul , 2010, 15:17 »
Hello guys,

Pat, I can't recall the source off the top of my head (it's been a few years since I wrote the colours article) but I was told the UT and GHG covers were unpainted bronze. This is on P41 of "The Wolf Pack".

Cheers,

Dougie

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #551 on: 05 Jul , 2010, 21:45 »
Hi Simon

Thanks for photos.
I have seen the first photo before, but I have not associated it with submarine tube (but it clearly is).
The second photo is interensting - it seems like aft (nearer pressure hull) part of the lower port torpedo tube.
This part of tube is very rarely pictured ;(

--
Regards
Maciek

Hi Maciek

This picture and others were taken by a member of the SUBSIM Forum during a visit to U-995. I can not remember who or which sub-forum >:( However, there are several other members of the SUBSIM that have posted were trip to U-995. Could be worth a search for a picture of different view.

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #552 on: 05 Jul , 2010, 21:54 »
Hello guys,

Pat, I can't recall the source off the top of my head (it's been a few years since I wrote the colours article) but I was told the UT and GHG covers were unpainted bronze. This is on P41 of "The Wolf Pack".

Cheers,

Dougie

Hi Pat

I can imagine this was my source also. Just got the wrong metal  :-[ :-[

Offline Pat

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #553 on: 06 Jul , 2010, 19:20 »
Dougie, bronze or copper, being metal just seems odd to me for what's basically a microphone cover.  Copper is a basic ingredient of antifouling coatings, (as is tin back in those days).  Since bronze is an alloy with copper but it doesn't turn green the same way, it might be a little more likely. 

The UT and GHG would basically be analagous to the depth sounders of today, which are a very thick black plastic of some sort, but then, in WWII, they may not have had such types of plastic, or if they did, couldn't divert the petroleum resources to making it.  That might have been a reason for using metal. 

Any idea how they transmitted sound if they were metal?

Offline dougie47

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #554 on: 07 Jul , 2010, 15:18 »
Hi Pat,

If I remember correctly it was Rainer Bruns who told me they were bronze. He is very knowledgeable on the technical side of U-boats, and indeed the operational side too. Going by photos of the UT covers on brand new boats, they did look like a metal such as bronze so I went with what he told me.

My initial thought when you mentioned plastic was exactly as you pointed out - that they didn't have plastic or that bronze was much more readily available.

Cheers,

Dougie