Author Topic: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing  (Read 512558 times)

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Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #360 on: 08 Feb , 2010, 01:48 »
Hi Maciek

In this picture you can see the Pitot Tube right on the bow line.



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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #361 on: 09 Feb , 2010, 04:57 »

   Yeah, these links are  really incredible !!!   Perhaps I wasn't too ambitious...  I had thought building it by parts, with the idea of making easier to transport at the end of the proyect...  But I could only let to build a model proyect, not a real one... It should be very expensive...
    Well, first I should try to get some plans more bigger than a 1/72 scale if what I want is to build a 1/6 one...  Maybe this is the next step...

   Anyway, all this post is really amazing... I'm reading slowly and learning a lot on it... Thanks a lot for your comments.   ;)


Offline Pat

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #362 on: 09 Feb , 2010, 17:52 »
Simon, what is it that you think is the pitot tube in that picture?

I see what might be some sort of flat opening on the bow line, with a ring in front of it.  The ring would change the water flow and thus the readout. 

Also, the bow of a sub on the surface, unless it's very calm water, will be diving up and down, in and out of the water.  I've been on boats even with waves only about a meter, that going the right direction, the bow came out of the water so much one second I was looking down about 4 meters to the water surface, and a couple of seconds later the water was up to my waist as the bow plunged.  That would also mess up the readings. 

Finally, that's a fairly small ring protecting whatever that is.  It wouldn't take a very big log or bit of ship's wreckage to bash it in when the bow plunged down onto it.  The front of a boat is not nearly as protected from obstacles as the leading edle of an aircraft, since the water is not compressible and gives a lot of backing to whatever force gets delivered to the bow from a floating obstacle.

Not saying that it's not a measuring device of some sort, but if it was, that location would most likely be experimental and not a regular location.


The one that looked more possible was a picture that somebody posted recently that showed a vertical gap between two hull plates set back perhaps 1/2-1 meter from the bow.

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #363 on: 09 Feb , 2010, 18:59 »
No. 1 is the S-Ger

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #364 on: 10 Feb , 2010, 00:52 »
Engine Room Piping


Offline Pat

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #365 on: 10 Feb , 2010, 06:25 »
Simon, my crappy computer is striking again.

The picture is coming through so poorly here that I can't see anything at #2.  Just a joint between two hull plates maybe.  #1 and #3 do show up.

And this session, the picture for the engine room piping isn't opening up either.  Perhaps the next time I log on.  (Last night, I couldn't even get into the website)

But anyway, as I've said, the cutwater is a poor place to put any sort of speed measuring device, for several reasons.  It's just a slight improvement on putting it at the stern around the propellers and dive planes.  It won't give an accurate reading at the stem and if a boat was to spend any time on the surface, in cloudy weather where they can't take a sextant sighting, then it could throw them off course.  It can't be a standard location.  I'll go with a pitot tube type measuring device, but not there other than experimental on a few boats.

Offline SnakeDoc

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #366 on: 13 Feb , 2010, 09:20 »
Hello Simon


In this picture you can see the Pitot Tube right on the bow line.


Thanks for the photo.

Quote from: Pat

But anyway, as I've said, the cutwater is a poor place to put any sort of speed measuring device, for several reasons.  It's just a slight improvement on putting it at the stern around the propellers and dive planes.  It won't give an accurate reading at the stem and if a boat was to spend any time on the surface, in cloudy weather where they can't take a sextant sighting, then it could throw them off course.  It can't be a standard location.  I'll go with a pitot tube type measuring device, but not there other than experimental on a few boats.


I've checked in "Submarine Design" by Urlich Gabler (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulrich_Gabler) that pitometer log of that type was used as standard device. I've also some records describing Fahrtme

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #367 on: 13 Feb , 2010, 11:11 »
Thanks Maciek for the additional information :)

Offline Rokket

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #368 on: 13 Feb , 2010, 15:58 »
Hi Maciek,

That last held true into the 1960s in the USN. My 2nd Dad was a young Lt in 1957 on Grouper, and later worked at a living hisotry museum of the 1600s (Mayflower II in Plymouth Massachusetts, USA), where he used a quadrant (not even a sextant yet in 1620). He said the 1600s navigation was pretty close to his 1950s nav. Shooting the sun and stars the old fashioned way!
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Offline Rokket

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #369 on: 19 Feb , 2010, 01:17 »
This is a Gato, but has some good general sub speed log info.

http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/log/chap1.htm
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Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #370 on: 19 Feb , 2010, 01:57 »
Thanks for the additional information :) I will read it after I come back from my field work this week.

I was wondering have you seen any information for either magnetic or gyro compass for the Gato? I been looking for information for the U-boat but not having much luck :(

Simon

Offline Rokket

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #371 on: 19 Feb , 2010, 03:49 »
I am NO expert, but belive both navies had similar - a gyro for the "real" cource, and mag as well, and repeaters. What did you need to know?
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Offline Pat

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #372 on: 19 Feb , 2010, 10:57 »
Yes, pretty much all navies used gyrocompasses, and since the technology was invented in (1885, 1908, 1911 depending on source), it was well out of patent and the primary mechanism was known by all nations by the time of WWII.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrocompass

"The gyrocompass was patented in 1885 by the Dutch Marinus Gerardus van den Bos; however, his device never worked properly. In 1889, Captain Arthur Krebs designed an electric pendular gyroscope for the experimental French submarine Gymnote. It allowed the Gymnote to force a naval blockade in 1890. In 1903, the German Hermann Ansch

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #373 on: 19 Feb , 2010, 13:11 »
rokket & Pat thanks for the information  :)

Was after anything information that this time, as I would like to add them both to my drawing.

I am reading U-Boat 977 by Schaeffer, Heinz and he said that while a depth charge attack the gyro-compass came out of it housing and across the Control Room at 10,000 rpm :D

Has anyone else read this book?

Offline Rokket

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #374 on: 19 Feb , 2010, 22:14 »
As a side note - and it might have been mentioned and I didn't see it - magnetic north is not true north, and it varies. The VIICs had a mighty big compass in the boot at the foot of the fairwater, but now that I'm pressed, I can't say if it's mag or gryo...
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