Author Topic: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing  (Read 512527 times)

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Offline SG

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1380 on: 16 Mar , 2016, 03:49 »
 :o Whoa! Super!! Well done!!

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1381 on: 16 Mar , 2016, 12:59 »
With shield closed






Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1382 on: 16 Mar , 2016, 20:25 »
Onboard U-1308 ;D




Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1383 on: 17 Mar , 2016, 17:35 »
Thanks, Jon.
 
Have you done any research into the 2cm Flak gun stand? It very hard to pick up in war time photos especially when its reset into the wooden deck. I cannot tell if it’s on all boats but it seems to be on good number of boats.

In the photo below you can see the starboard stand.


http://www.u-historia.com/uhistoria/tecnico/electronica/antiradar/antiradar.htm

Hi Simon,


That is one of the things I want to have a good look at on my next trip to Birkenhead. All I can tell you at the moment is that they were mounted on a common metal mount on the upper platform of the VIIs and IXs and the deck on the later IIs, by common I mean that the mount base would fit either single of twin gun mount, but not the early 2cm on the type IIs that retracted into its own container.


Regards
Jon

Jon, I token a look at the gun stand today. There seem to be different between the Type VIIC and IX gun stand. On the Type IX it seems to have only one size (large), on the Type VIIC from all the photo’s I have, there are two sizers, a large stand like the Type IX and a smaller stand also.




Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1384 on: 28 Mar , 2016, 15:20 »
Dougie, the new colours look great :D

I like both Blaugrau 58/1 & Blauschwarz 58/2

Schlickgrau 58 - RGB - 77 / 81 / 76


Blaugrau 58/1 - RGB - 73 / 78 / 78


Blauschwarz 58/2 - RGB - 22 / 34 / 34


Hi Dougie

Check out this original colour photo from https://foronaval.wordpress.com/ of a u-boat. Its the best colour original colour photo I have seen from WW2.

It look like the casting is Blaugrau 58/1 (Maybe Schlickgrau 58???) and the Wave and wing deflectors are Blauschwarz 58/2.

I wonder if this normal?


"On May 16th, 1945, HMCS "Loch Alvie" and HMCS "Nene" were detached to escort 14 surrendered U-boats from Trondheim to Loch Eribol."
« Last Edit: 28 Mar , 2016, 15:23 by NZSnowman »

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1385 on: 28 Mar , 2016, 21:24 »
Dougie, also the handrails look like they are Blauschwarz 58/2.

Offline dougie47

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1386 on: 29 Mar , 2016, 13:19 »
Hi Simon,

Wow, what an image! I have been waiting for years to see an excellent colour shot from 1945 and there it is. You can even see the bottle green insulators.

I agree, looks like the main colour is probably Blaugrau 58/1 (Dunkelgrau 51 is also a possibility).

The wind deflector at the top of the tower is most likely black. The wind deflector was usually painted the upper grey but now and again they would paint them black. The horizontal surface of the spray deflector was always black and I think sometimes this was also applied to the wind deflector. This just happened now and again. I've seen black on a few VIICs and IXs at different times. But usually the wind deflector was the upper grey colour.

You've noticed the dark colour on the handrails. Again I think this is black. Again black was used for the railings on a few boats. U 552, for example, tended to have black handrails.

Great image, thanks for posting.

Any ideas what boat this is? And where is the location? The background looks like it might be Loch Eribol (in top of Scotland). Surrendered boats had the numbers painted on white on the towers but looks like this hasn't been applied to this boat yet.

Cheers,

Dougie

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1387 on: 29 Mar , 2016, 13:47 »
Any ideas what boat this is? And where is the location? The background looks like it might be Loch Eribol (in top of Scotland). Surrendered boats had the numbers painted on white on the towers but looks like this hasn't been applied to this boat yet.

What was the second question I ask, but no one knows.

Why was the wind deflector etc… painted black?

The black paint like more shiny that matt black.

Offline dougie47

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1388 on: 29 Mar , 2016, 15:18 »
Hi Simon,

I'm not 100% sure why the wind deflector is black. My guess it is a misinterpretation of the painting regulations. The regs state that all horizontal surfaces should be black. The deflector goes from a vertical surface to (almost) a horizontal surface. It is possible - just - that someone in a shipyard could think the deflector constituted a horizontal surface, at least partly. Or someone got a bit enthusiastic with a pot of black paint.

Cheers,

Dougie

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1389 on: 29 Mar , 2016, 15:26 »
I match the viewpoint of the boat and the angle of the sun. Figure 4 seem to best match the photo.


Fig. 1. Wing deflector, Blauschwarz 58/2.


Fig. 2. Wing deflector, Black, surface roughness 15%.


Fig. 3. Wing deflector, Black, surface roughness 20%.


Fig. 4. Wing deflector, Black, surface roughness 30%.


Fig. 5. Wing deflector, Black, surface roughness 40%.


Fig. 6. Wing deflector, Black, surface roughness 50%.

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1390 on: 29 Mar , 2016, 15:39 »
I forget to model the indirect lighting on the U-boat like the reflection from the water, so fig 4 or 5 may be more correct.

Do you think the underside of the spray deflector was black?

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1391 on: 29 Mar , 2016, 18:59 »
Looking the original colour photo it look like the underside of the spray deflector is not black, also where the top surface curve inside the upper bridge casting this is also not black.




Offline dougie47

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1392 on: 30 Mar , 2016, 13:15 »
Looking very good Simon.

Cheers,

Dougie

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1393 on: 02 Apr , 2016, 22:43 »
The regs state that all horizontal surfaces should be black

Dougie, the watertight containers on the bow are black, do you think the ready Ammunition Container on the lower wintergaten etc. should be black also?

Offline dougie47

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Re: VIIC/41 - Schematices drawing
« Reply #1394 on: 03 Apr , 2016, 06:50 »
Hi Simon,

This is a bit tricky.

On the late Type IXs the ammo containers were much higher. The vertical surfaces are straightforward as they were the upper grey. The lids were, for the most part, mostly a horizontal surface and if the regulations were being strictly adhered to, painted black. However there may have been some variances, with the lids on some boats were painted with the upper grey.

On the mid-to late VIICs the lids of the ammo containers were just above the tower floor. A fair amount of the lid could be considered as horizontal and some surfaces as vertical. The result of this is that some workers may have painted the containers black and other workers painted in the upper grey (depending upon interpretation of whether it was horizontal or vertical).

If you look at U 923 on page 23 of Vom Original VIIC the two ammo hatch lids at the front of the lower platform look black. Note that this is a Turm II but the practice should be the same for Turm II and Turm IV. On page 24 of Vom Original VIIC three lids can be seen on the lower platform of the Turm IV on U 1056. It is difficult to be sure but the rearmost container could be black? There is one unidentified VIIC with the whole ammo container and lid painted black (in this instance there is no doubt - they are black).

In some other photos the lids look the same colour as the upper colour; but in late war the upper colour was quite a dark colour so distinguishing between black and the upper colour is not always possible in poor quality shots.

Cheers,

Dougie