Author Topic: Type VIIC/41 by Revell  (Read 25638 times)

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Offline dougie47

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Re: Type VIIC/41 by Revell
« Reply #15 on: 29 Dec , 2008, 07:06 »
Hi Nicolas,

Type IXs and Xs had snorts on the starboard side of the deck. VIICs had snorts on the port side of the deck.

Some VIICs had the snort with the pipe leading to the rear of the tower. As the snort was on the port side, this pipe was located along the port side of the tower.

Other VIICs with had different snorts that did not have the pipe, just like U 995.

I'd recommend the book Vom original zum Modell: Uboottyp VII C by Fritz Koehl and Axel Niestle. There are good photos of late VIICs and VIIC/41 and schnorkels in it. This book might provide you with a particular choice of boat also.

Do you see the rectangular housing for the radar on the port side? On the kit the front corner looks rounded. The edge on the real ones were not rounded but had a sharp edge.

Also, the shape of the part below the rectangular radar housing on the kit looks wrong. It should be semi-circular, just like the mast antenna housing shape on U 201. The kit looks like a rectangular shape with rounded corners, not a semi-circle. 

bracco_n

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Re: Type VIIC/41 by Revell
« Reply #16 on: 29 Dec , 2008, 10:07 »
Check this out, this can prove my point




As you can see these are type VII boats fitted with Schnorkels on the port side and with the pipe running from the Wintergarten to the mast. This pipe is missing in both U-995 and Revell's model, why is that? U-995's Schnorkel is of another kind? Was this pipe removed from U-995 and thus not represented in the model?
these are the questions I need to answer.

Offline dougie47

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Re: Type VIIC/41 by Revell
« Reply #17 on: 29 Dec , 2008, 11:43 »
Hi Nicolas,

The last image proves my point that there were two distinct styles of snort - one with the pipe and another without the pipe. If you look closely at the image you will see U 1109 and U 278 don't have the pipe, U 1058 has.

U 995 was one of the boats which didn't have the pipe. Revell most likely used U 995 as a reference for their model, as you said. As Revell used U 995, which didn't have the pipe, their model doesn't have it either.

Cheers,

Dougie


bracco_n

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Re: Type VIIC/41 by Revell
« Reply #18 on: 29 Dec , 2008, 13:13 »
I noticed that interesting point. New questions come to my mind. As we've seen, some U-boats had the pipe and others didn't. This pipe conducted the fresh air into the boat and led the exhaust fumes to the exterior, am I right? So (If I'm right) the boats without the pipe on the side of the CG might had that pipe in other place, perhaps under the upperdeck. What I want to know is how this different tipe of snort was connected to the Diesels. The only thing I can see that have contact with the mast is the device on the CG that keeps the mast on place once raised and, below the upperdeck, the mechanism that is used to raise the mast. I assume that to receive the exhaust fumes the mast has to be connected to the exhaust system. This type of Snort really confuses me, can you shed more light on this subject?

Offline dougie47

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Re: Type VIIC/41 by Revell
« Reply #19 on: 29 Dec , 2008, 14:31 »
Hi Nicolas,

Snorts aren't really my favourite subject but I'll try.

The pipe from the tower to the snort was air trunking. On boats with the air trunking we'll call T-boats (for trunking boats). On boats such as U 995 without the air trunking we'll call N-boats (for no-trunking boats).

T-boats - fresh air
In VIICs the fresh air intake was located at the rear of the tower, high up on the tower itself. Since the air trunking lead to the rear of the tower it is a fair bet the trunks were for the fresh air.
The fresh air from the top of the snort went down through a pipe inside the snort mast. Then it turned 90 degrees and went down the air trunking to the rear end of the tower. (I think!)

N-boats - fresh air
These boats didn't have the air trunking from the tower to the snort. Since there is no visible connection to the tower, I assume there must have been some connection near at the foot of the snort mast itself?

T-boats and N-boats - exhaust gases
On both types the exhaust gases must have been routed from some connection under the deck. The gases then went up through a pipe inside the snort mast. The exhaust gases were expelled through an outlet that was either 50cm or 130cm below the top of the snort mast.

I'm not 100% sure that everything above is accurate as I've not too good on snort operation.

Cheers,

Dougie

Offline wildspear

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Re: Type VIIC/41 by Revell
« Reply #20 on: 29 Dec , 2008, 20:39 »
What are the four hatches on the forward deck?

Offline Siara

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Re: Type VIIC/41 by Revell
« Reply #21 on: 29 Dec , 2008, 23:47 »
What are the four hatches on the forward deck?
Life preservers- rafts.

bracco_n

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Re: Type VIIC/41 by Revell
« Reply #22 on: 30 Dec , 2008, 16:53 »
At U-historia's forum we are discussing the same issua and we reached the same conclusion. The Schnorkel that used the outer pipe  was one type while the other (like the one on U-995) was a more advanced version which had all the piping belowdecks. The thread is in spanish and to see it you have to register. I leave the link if you want to give it a try:
http://www.u-historia.com/uhistoria/foro/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2397


Offline Rokket

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Re: Type VIIC/41 by Revell
« Reply #23 on: 31 Dec , 2008, 16:15 »
Random ramblings that may be known and/or no use...

In Iron Coffins Werner talks about snorkels, desperately wanted one. He chatted with another commander who was (supposedly) getting a boat with hydraulic torp loading, a fancy snorkel, and other goodies. Presumably yes, there were updated snort models. Werner got a snort 5 mins before the war ended, and had a few problems:

"Then a sudden vacuum prevented me from questioning him. The float of the Schnorkel had jammed in closed position, and with the air intake cut off, the port engine had sucked most of the air out of the hull before the diesel could be halted. The Chief's orders died in the thinned air. The men gasped for air, their eyes bulging out." Later he describes taking on water, 5 tons i the mast  piping and 20 in the diesel compartment. U 865 reported by radio their snort was defective and unable to dive, bombed. (They sunk). Later again the sort mast was frozen, broken cable. It was frozen erect! This was the cable-raised type, prolly early model.

The snort porblems continued for years with the USN (at least thru to the early 60s). My former Cmdr mate tells of the auto-cut-off valve on the float constantly shutting (to prevent wave flooding) - it would stop suddenly, and the diesels would keep sucking air anyway for a couple heartbeats, and during that short few seconds you'd get a vacuum jus like Werner experienced.  Not sure if it was ever perfected for the USN, but now they have nukes. (I would be a tad nervous with a reactor on the other side of a bulkhead. They store emergency diesel in a tank between because apparently it's good at absorbing the stray radioactive bits, but...Diesel Boats Forever!)

The Aussies have snorts on their boats, and I guess they work well enough. (New German boats, at least two, use fuel cells in addition to batts, so don't need snorts, pretty cool).
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Offline wildspear

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Re: Type VIIC/41 by Revell
« Reply #24 on: 31 Dec , 2008, 20:21 »
rokket,
that was very informative. I always enjoy reading the post you and doug put on this site, I learn everday.

Offline Rokket

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Re: Type VIIC/41 by Revell
« Reply #25 on: 31 Dec , 2008, 20:24 »
Thanks wildspear. Happy New Year!

Oh, torp shutters...I don't want to get you excited YET, but things are good. IM me your postal address, but this is till a few weeks away.
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bracco_n

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Re: Type VIIC/41 by Revell
« Reply #26 on: 31 Dec , 2008, 22:09 »
Rokket, thank you very much for that info!
I've got the answer and it had always been under my nose, don't have time to write now, tomorrow will post.
Happy New Year!

Offline Greif

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Re: Type VIIC/41 by Revell
« Reply #27 on: 04 Jan , 2009, 07:14 »
Do you have pictures of camuflage for artic boats? I would like to represent one of the Type VIIC/41 operating against artic convoys. My other idea is to represent one in late war greys during training in the baltic.
I'm open for other ideas.

Hi bracco,

the most recent U-boot in Focus has some good pictures of U-307 and a very nice color drawing of the boat.  I have looked through my refernces and I have not been able to find pictures of any Type VIIc/41's in artic camo.

I will keep looking, as an artic boat was my first choice also!

bracco_n

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Re: Type VIIC/41 by Revell
« Reply #28 on: 04 Jan , 2009, 17:10 »
Greif I appreciate your help! I'm not completely decided but I think I'm going to build U-482 returning from it's first patrol. it will look nice with five Siegwimpel flying from the periscope, heavily corroded after 2700 nm underwater and painted in dark gray. I couldn't find any pictures from the boat, can anybody provide me with pictures from this boat?

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: Type VIIC/41 by Revell
« Reply #29 on: 06 Jan , 2009, 11:51 »
VIIC Schnorkels piping.

There is a very good drawing of the piping for the air supping and exhaust for the N-boats (for no-trunking boats) on page 64 in 'The Type VII U-boat' by David Westwood. This may help.