Author Topic: Some questions regarding Tamiya`s Bismarck  (Read 4317 times)

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Offline Bad Karma

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Some questions regarding Tamiya`s Bismarck
« on: 08 Aug , 2010, 10:45 »
Hi Guys,

question 1,

I am looking for set of brass props for my Tamiya`s Bismarck,
the ones from Tamiya are littlebit incorrect.

However I searched the web for this item and
found that the G-factor got only a set for the Revell Bismarck.



question 2,

As we speek I am installing a wood deck on Bismarck,
I have NO experience with this,what for paint I need to finish the deck,
my first thougts is flat varnish????





Thanks for you`re time.

my best regards,

Ron.

________
Let's just say I was testing the bounds of reality. I was curious to see what would happen. That's all it was: curiosity.

Jim Morrison

TRM

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Re: Some questions regarding Tamiya`s Bismarck
« Reply #1 on: 08 Aug , 2010, 19:15 »
Hello Ron,

Regarding question 1  -  After looking in the only book I have on the Bismarck (The Discovery Of The Bismarck), the props are not that far off.  If you grab some brass rod for new shafts I think they will fit rather nicely.  You can file them to get a little more contour and maybe thin them out.  (See pics below)

Question 2 -  The same book....it appears she had a natural finished weather deck except where the bow and stern aircraft identification Swastika were.  Experiment with different stains to find a shading you are happy with. The wood decking you bought is most likely basswood or similar species.  Grab a 2 or 3 foot by 4 inch piece from a local hobby shop and test it up I am coming up[ with Cyprus, not Teak for the deck. This is lighter, but, I think you may want some definition with lighter as well as some darker boards.  You could stain the lighter color and mask off (paint staking but worth it) random boards.

Not sure if you have been here, try this...   Bismarck

Post some pics when you get some time, I would love to see your build.

Good Luck!


Offline Bad Karma

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Re: Some questions regarding Tamiya`s Bismarck
« Reply #2 on: 11 Aug , 2010, 09:03 »
Hi T,

Thanks for you`re repley,and for the pix.


Sorry forget to mention,I lost some parts including this one,
due ''Cat vs Bismarck''incedent,and yes she is still alive.
I think I go for the G-factor props.

Like T says ''experiment''.


This is sample/left over from this wood deck.




I painted this sample with the Tamiya XF-55(deck tan),
after the paint was dry I finished the sample
with oil paints from Rembrandt called ''burnt umber''.

Sample result.




I think it`s a littlebit to dark.

Here are some pix of the installation of the fore and aft deck.

Fore deck,





Aft deck,same situation,




This is the glue I use for bonding the deck,
I also use this glue for my RC subs.




Glue sample,no colour change.




In this pic the glue is wet,aft deck same situation.




What I holding in my left hand it`s rubber to press all the air bubbles out.




The two decks glued,




my best regards,

Ron.
« Last Edit: 11 Aug , 2010, 09:18 by Bad Karma »

________
Let's just say I was testing the bounds of reality. I was curious to see what would happen. That's all it was: curiosity.

Jim Morrison

TRM

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Re: Some questions regarding Tamiya`s Bismarck
« Reply #3 on: 11 Aug , 2010, 19:37 »
Looking great, keep us posted! :D

Offline Rokket

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Re: Some questions regarding Tamiya`s Bismarck
« Reply #4 on: 13 Aug , 2010, 03:25 »
very nice
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chinamimi

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Re: Some questions regarding Tamiya`s Bismarck
« Reply #5 on: 12 Sep , 2010, 20:47 »
very  good   !   i thingk... ;D

Offline Pat

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Re: Some questions regarding Tamiya`s Bismarck
« Reply #6 on: 27 Sep , 2010, 12:02 »
Haven't visited this thread in a while and just saw your question regarding the deck for Bismark.

The reason for wooden decks on WWII battleships (and submarines, U-boats and other warships too) was to make the decks less slippery when wet or in icy conditions. There's just no way to make steel decks non-slippery and not have whatever coating they put on them not wear off in the hard use the navy puts them to.

Therefore, to be less slippery, they do not put any varnish or other coating on the decks, but leave them as bare wood.  In fact, in the old days, it used to be a daily job of sailors who needed for other duties to get onto their hands and knees and scrub the decks with pumice stones to scrape off anything on the deck (like oil or paint) and roughen up the surface to make it more non-skid.

The favourite wood to use was teak, because it's hard and extremely durable under almost conditions, but if teak wasn't available, other woods such as oak might be used.  Soft woods, like pine were not liked because they wore out too quickly and broke too easily under hard use.

Because the decks aren't varnished, they often turned grey undless they were constantly sanded/scraped, but this takes a couple of years so most would still look like raw wood except in corners where there wasn't much foot traffic.

If you buy a scribed board to make your deck out of, as TRM says, try to make some planks lighter than others to give an impression of different boards.  Keep in mind there's a specific pattern of joints on a ship's deck, thery're not random like a back yard patio.  The pattern is called "5-step butt planking", and is used because it's the strongest pattern by keeping the joints as far apart from each other as possible.

20 feet is the standard length of most deck planks.

There are also several different ways of finishing off the edges where the wood deck joins the hull called "joggling" since planks cannot come to a point, it's too weak.  The ends are nipped off when the planks get's to be only 1/3 the full width making a sort of zig-zagged edge.

Smaller ships, like destroyers and corvettes didn't have wood decks except in small areas around the bridge because it was felt that in rought weather, it was too dangerous for crew to be on deckm but U-boats and subs of course were another matter since even in calm weather the decks would be wet.

If you want any help with the various deck patterns, drop me a line and I'll try and help.  There are several other specifics for wooden decks as well, but the stepped butt planking and joggling are the two main patterns that would be obvious at that scale.

Offline Rokket

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Re: Some questions regarding Tamiya`s Bismarck
« Reply #7 on: 02 Oct , 2010, 18:03 »
Great info, esp. the 20ft length.
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Offline Pat

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Re: Some questions regarding Tamiya`s Bismarck
« Reply #8 on: 11 Oct , 2010, 08:14 »
The reasons for the 20 foot length, as far as I could determine, were that it makes it easier to carry the planks by hand and work them around fittings.  Since there were so many planks on a deck, and they had to be fitted so closely, it wasn't practical to move them individually with block and tackle or power cranes like other large metal parts.

Also, if the wood planks got much long, then they became to easy to break, expecially with the flexing of a ship in heavy weather.

And it was hard to get planks much longer than that perfectly straight, without some twisting during the drying process because trees just don't grow that straight for longer stretches, at least the kind that used for decking.

Also, even if they could get SOME planks longer than 20 feet, most of the would not be that long and it was better to have a standard length and therefore easier to plan out where each plank would go.  If they were random lengths, like when flooring a house, then the workers would have to spend more time figuring out the most economical use of the wood, instead of just using a fixed pattern.

And lastly, using a ficed pattern of where the butt joints go makes for much stronger deck, and in 30 foot waves, you want every part of your boat to be as strong as possible.

Offline dbauer

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Re: Some questions regarding Tamiya`s Bismarck
« Reply #9 on: 19 Nov , 2012, 06:48 »
Just to note: The decks on U-Booten were a cheaper wood,  simmular to pine. They were not painted, but coated with a very dark almost black preservative. My father has said that the decks were sticky when this coasting was new. The coating would wear over time. This made them more gray and if allowed they would also start to turn brown and then had some green.

Offline Rokket

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Re: Some questions regarding Tamiya`s Bismarck
« Reply #10 on: 23 Nov , 2012, 22:32 »
Thanks Dan! It's interesting how something meaningless to the sailors has become a big point to those of us preserving history! Wonderful you have such a connection and are keeping it alive. (You don't have an actual boat tucked away somewhere, do you?)
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Offline dbauer

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Re: Some questions regarding Tamiya`s Bismarck
« Reply #11 on: 27 Nov , 2012, 07:35 »
Hi!
I feel it is important for us now more than ever to attempt to archve the memories of all WWII Veterans.  My Father has been a major source of info on some of the details about life on a U-Boat. His experiences are a value to us all. He is now 92. He will not be here forever. When he is gone, so goes more details we will loose on the Kriegsmarine and the U-Boat.

Offline dbauer

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Re: Some questions regarding Tamiya`s Bismarck
« Reply #12 on: 27 Nov , 2012, 07:39 »
I may be wrong but I was told at one time that Tamiya's Bismarck is based more on the plans than on the actual ship. When that model came out, Bismarck had not been found yet.  However, Revell of Germany's Bismarck has some detail and measurements of the actual Ship after discovery. Is this correct?

Offline Rokket

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Re: Some questions regarding Tamiya`s Bismarck
« Reply #13 on: 01 Dec , 2012, 01:29 »
Interesting. Don't now. I am a fan of using plans, but put more weight to the actual vessel. Ho many times (lots and lots!) have I found big differences between plans and the actual?! The same for what the manual says, and what actual sailors did. Hopefully someone knows the answer to the Revell question
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