Author Topic: German Torpedo Color?  (Read 110446 times)

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Offline GlennCauley

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Re: German Torpedo Color?
« Reply #225 on: 20 Mar , 2018, 16:45 »
I have a bunch of different 1/35 subs & midget subs that I can post pics & dimensions.

Glenn Cauley
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Offline NZSnowman

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Re: German Torpedo Color?
« Reply #226 on: 20 Mar , 2018, 19:02 »
Natter,

Q3. Does the G7a TI Fat I (Fig. 9) have a adjustment hatch on top of the tail section like the Lut I, Lut II & Lut III?

Thanks, Simon.

Offline Islandern

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Re: German Torpedo Color?
« Reply #227 on: 21 Mar , 2018, 00:37 »
When I woke up this morning, wow!


That list is great Natter!


I now understand as I am building the Seehund that I most likely need to make a G7e TIIIc, with kb, kb1 or kb2 warhead and TZ2+Pi2f pistol.


Can someone help me with the colours of the kb, kb1 or kb2 warhead for midget subs, dark grey?


The same with the colours for the TZ2 / Pi2f pistol?


The rest of the torpedo I asume is unpainted steel, including the 2 blade counterrotating prop?


(Truly want to finnish a build that is punt on halt untill I have this input.


NZSnowman, a graphic guide as you have started with, were it is easy to see the different types etc is very welcome!

Offline GlennCauley

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Re: German Torpedo Color?
« Reply #228 on: 21 Mar , 2018, 06:48 »
Can someone help me with the colours of the kb, kb1 or kb2 warhead for midget subs, dark grey?
The same with the colours for the TZ2 / Pi2f pistol?
The rest of the torpedo I asume is unpainted steel, including the 2 blade counterrotating prop?

LOL... patience.  :)
This is exactly the sort of colour information that will likely be in a short guide
Glenn Cauley
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gc-scalemodels.ca

Offline Natter

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Re: German Torpedo Color?
« Reply #229 on: 21 Mar , 2018, 10:21 »
Quote from: Natter
I made this from a list I already had "in the works":
Just for the record: There's a few errors and some information missing from this list (I posted it without any proper "proof-reading" yesterday...). I will make another improved version as soon as I get a chance, also adding some more torpedoes that I see is missing...

Offline Natter

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Re: German Torpedo Color?
« Reply #230 on: 21 Mar , 2018, 10:31 »
Quote from: NZSnowman
Q1. Could you get the Fat I, Lut I, Lut II & Lut III with a bronze propellers (fig. 7)?
There's no correlation between the material used for the propellers and version/features of the torpedo. The G7a(TI) torpedo was initially eqippped with 4-blade propellers, later replaced by 6-blade. All made in brass. As brass became less available during the war, they switched to making propellers of steel, but this was merely a matter of logistics.
I don't have any information stating exactly when the 6-blade propeller was introduced, nor when they started making them in steel. I'm sure they used brass-propellers in stock until they ran out, wether it was for making a straight-runner or a torpedo with program steering.

Quote from: NZSnowman
Q2. Did the Fat I, Lut I & Lut III have any markings on the outside?
I'm not sure, but it's possible. So far, I have only found original documents giving instructions for the "Lut II" markings.
 
First: There's no "Lut III". The different programsteering versions were Fat I, Fat II, Fat III (later renamed to Lut I) and Lut II.  I have put up a general description of those systems here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_torpedoes_of_Germany

Offline Natter

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Re: German Torpedo Color?
« Reply #231 on: 21 Mar , 2018, 10:33 »
Quote from: NZSnowman
Q3. Does the G7a TI Fat I (Fig. 9) have a adjustment hatch on top of the tail section like the Lut I, Lut II & Lut III?
It's not a hatch, but yes: There's access for making adjustments to the Fat-settings (not similar to the Lut-adjustments though). I'll post some photos if I can find them...

Offline Natter

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Re: German Torpedo Color?
« Reply #232 on: 21 Mar , 2018, 11:03 »
Quote from: Islandern
I now understand as I am building the Seehund that I most likely need to make a G7e TIIIc, with kb, kb1 or kb2 warhead and TZ2+Pi2f pistol.
Yes, the G7e(TIIIc) would be the proper torpedo. I'm not sure when the TIIIe were introduced, but probably very late and thus saw limited use.

The exterior of the warheads are basically identical. The difference is internal, with different shape/size of pistolpockets, material used etc.
 * Ka (gerät nr. 501 B 1203): Made from bronze without internal ribs. Short pocket with space for pistol-battery.
 * Ka (gerät nr. 501 B 1203 U 35): Made from bronze with internal ribs. Short pocket with space for pistol-battery.
 * Ka (gerät nr. 501 B 1203 U 17): Made from steel without internal ribs. Short pocket with space for pistol-battery.
 * Ka1 (gerät nr. 501 B 2003 U4): Made from steel with internal ribs. Short pocket without space for pistol-battery
 * Ka2 (gerät nr. 501 B 2003 U4): Made from steel with internal ribs. Medium pocket.
 * Kb (gerät nr. 501 B 2003 U20): Made from bronze with internal ribs. Long pocket and cable guide to the backplate.
 * Kb1 (gerät nr. 501 B 2003 U40): Made from steel with internal ribs. Long pocket and cable guide to the backplate.

The size and shape of the pocket decided whitch pistol could be used. Pistols with magnetic ignitors had to be powered by a battery (either a dedicated small battery in the pistol, or from the torpedo's main battery by means of a cable going through the head back to the batterychamber of the G7e torpedo).

Note that Kb2 is an error: There were no such variant... (one of several issues I need to correct in the list :-/ ).

Quote from: Islandern
Can someone help me with the colours of the kb, kb1 or kb2 warhead for midget subs, dark grey?
I suggest you read the complete topic, as this has been discussed before. As mentioned: It's impossible to give an exact answer. All warheads were initially painted light or dark grey though (heads of bronze might not have been painted though, due to less need for protection against corrosion).

Quote from: Islandern
The same with the colours for the TZ2 / Pi2f pistol?
Ditto, although the few pictures of Pi2f I have seen suggest a very light colour (light grey, or perhaps white...). Note that TZ2 were a pistol with firingarms, ("whiskers") and Pi2f had none, as it was only used with netcutters.

Quote from: Islandern
The rest of the torpedo I asume is unpainted steel, including the 2 blade counterrotating prop?
Yes, for use on ordinary submarines (although it would have been covered in grease, giving it a brownish/golden translucent colour). Torpedoes used on micget submarines were usually painted in various colours, injcluding camouflagepattern (ref previous posts and photos in this topic).

Offline Natter

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Re: German Torpedo Color?
« Reply #233 on: 27 Mar , 2018, 13:04 »
Quote from: Natter
Quote from: NZSnowman
Q3. Does the G7a TI Fat I (Fig. 9) have a adjustment hatch on top of the tail section like the Lut I, Lut II & Lut III?
It's not a hatch, but yes: There's access for making adjustments to the Fat-settings (not similar to the Lut-adjustments though). I'll post some photos if I can find them...
Here you are:

Offline Natter

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Re: German Torpedo Color?
« Reply #234 on: 27 Mar , 2018, 13:06 »
I can't find a photo of the Lut-panel for comparision, but you can see the difference in these drawings of the adjustment-mechanism (4 spindles, no indicator):
« Last Edit: 28 Mar , 2018, 01:47 by Natter »

Offline Natter

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Re: German Torpedo Color?
« Reply #235 on: 27 Mar , 2018, 13:07 »
NB: It should also be appearant that the Lut- and Fat-mechanism are not located in the same place.

Offline NZSnowman

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Re: German Torpedo Color?
« Reply #236 on: 27 Mar , 2018, 13:35 »
NB: It should also be appearant that the Lut- and Fat-mechanism are not located in the same place.

Thanks for the information and pictures.

Do the postions look ok (Yellow = Lut and Red = Fat)?



Offline Islandern

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Re: German Torpedo Color?
« Reply #237 on: 02 Apr , 2018, 23:21 »
Quote from: Islandern
I now understand as I am building the Seehund that I most likely need to make a G7e TIIIc, with kb, kb1 or kb2 warhead and TZ2+Pi2f pistol.
Yes, the G7e(TIIIc) would be the proper torpedo. I'm not sure when the TIIIe were introduced, but probably very late and thus saw limited use.

The exterior of the warheads are basically identical. The difference is internal, with different shape/size of pistolpockets, material used etc.
 * Ka (gerät nr. 501 B 1203): Made from bronze without internal ribs. Short pocket with space for pistol-battery.
 * Ka (gerät nr. 501 B 1203 U 35): Made from bronze with internal ribs. Short pocket with space for pistol-battery.
 * Ka (gerät nr. 501 B 1203 U 17): Made from steel without internal ribs. Short pocket with space for pistol-battery.
 * Ka1 (gerät nr. 501 B 2003 U4): Made from steel with internal ribs. Short pocket without space for pistol-battery
 * Ka2 (gerät nr. 501 B 2003 U4): Made from steel with internal ribs. Medium pocket.
 * Kb (gerät nr. 501 B 2003 U20): Made from bronze with internal ribs. Long pocket and cable guide to the backplate.
 * Kb1 (gerät nr. 501 B 2003 U40): Made from steel with internal ribs. Long pocket and cable guide to the backplate.

The size and shape of the pocket decided whitch pistol could be used. Pistols with magnetic ignitors had to be powered by a battery (either a dedicated small battery in the pistol, or from the torpedo's main battery by means of a cable going through the head back to the batterychamber of the G7e torpedo).

Note that Kb2 is an error: There were no such variant... (one of several issues I need to correct in the list :-/ ).

Quote from: Islandern
Can someone help me with the colours of the kb, kb1 or kb2 warhead for midget subs, dark grey?
I suggest you read the complete topic, as this has been discussed before. As mentioned: It's impossible to give an exact answer. All warheads were initially painted light or dark grey though (heads of bronze might not have been painted though, due to less need for protection against corrosion).

Quote from: Islandern
The same with the colours for the TZ2 / Pi2f pistol?
Ditto, although the few pictures of Pi2f I have seen suggest a very light colour (light grey, or perhaps white...). Note that TZ2 were a pistol with firingarms, ("whiskers") and Pi2f had none, as it was only used with netcutters.

Quote from: Islandern
The rest of the torpedo I asume is unpainted steel, including the 2 blade counterrotating prop?
Yes, for use on ordinary submarines (although it would have been covered in grease, giving it a brownish/golden translucent colour). Torpedoes used on micget submarines were usually painted in various colours, injcluding camouflagepattern (ref previous posts and photos in this topic).


Thank you Natter!


This with midget subs seems very varying, yes. Some with camouflage and many without, and different ignition mechanisms as far as I have seen on pictures, the same with the net cutters. Some with and some without. Though I think I have not seen one more high-res or better detailed picture of the net cutter yet. (Might be to there cameras back then ofc ;) )


Looking foreward to the torpedo guide you are working on. :)


This thread contains very good info, but it is hard to get a good grip around it now.


Regards,


Anders

Offline GlennCauley

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Re: German Torpedo Color?
« Reply #238 on: 03 Apr , 2018, 07:45 »
I still have to get pics & info to you, Natter... I haven't forgotten.  :)   
The torps on the new HB 1/35 Molch kit will make you cringe...
Glenn Cauley
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Offline NZSnowman

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Re: German Torpedo Color?
« Reply #239 on: 03 Apr , 2018, 12:16 »

Looking foreward to the torpedo guide you are working on. :)


I have done about 40 drawings of the torpedoes and 24 pages so far. I am waiting for Natter to check a few things.

Simon